Pretending for Israel's sake

This article called Tough Love for Israel will appear in the May 5, 2008 edition of The Nation (requires a subscription to read in full). Here is a fair use introduction. Its author, Henry Siegman, is typical of Nation authors: they have a well-developed habit of telling the truth. In this case it is about politicians who appear willing to pretend that what is going on in Israel-Palestine is not going on.

Pretending about Israel's intentions is a favorite pastime of American politicians and politicians elsewhere, and that would seem to include all of the current presidential candidates. Says Seigman below, Israel has "never had the intention of allowing a Palestinian state to come into being." Or, as Jimmy Carter put it a few nights ago on the Charlie Rose Show, "Israel wants land not peace." And Israel is apparently willing to continue killing and uprooting Palestinians to achieve its goal.

We now have word that Tony Blair, envoy of the Middle East Quartet (the UN, the EU, Russia and the United States), and German Chancellor Angela Merkel intend to organize yet another peace conference, this time in Berlin in June. It is hard to believe that after the long string of failed peace initiatives, stretching back at least to the Madrid conference of 1991, diplomats are recycling these failures without seemingly having a clue as to why the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is even more hopeless today than before these peace exercises first got under way.

The scandal of the international community's impotence in resolving one of history's longest bloodlettings is that it knows what the problem is but does not have the courage to speak the truth, much less deal with it. The peace conference in Germany will suffer from the same gutlessness that has marked all previous efforts. It will deal with everything except the problem primarily responsible for the impasse. That problem is that for all the sins attributable to the Palestinians--and they are legion, including inept and corrupt leadership, failed institution-building and the murderous violence of rejectionist groups--there is no prospect for a viable, sovereign Palestinian state, primarily because Israel's various governments, from 1967 until today, have never had the intention of allowing such a state to come into being.

It would be one thing if Israeli governments had insisted on delaying a Palestinian state until certain security concerns had been dealt with. But no government serious about a two-state solution to the conflict would have pursued, without letup, the theft and fragmentation of Palestinian lands, which even a child understands makes Palestinian statehood impossible.

Another thing most of our politicians pretend about is America's complicity in the human rights tragedy going on today in Gaza. Speaking at the American University in Cairo after his trip to Syria (reported by Reuters), Jimmy Carter again told it like it is:

Former U.S. President Jimmy Carter called the blockade of Gaza a crime and an atrocity on Thursday and said U.S. attempts to undermine the Islamist movement Hamas had been counterproductive.

Carter said Palestinians in Gaza were being "starved to death", receiving fewer calories a day than people in the poorest parts of Africa.

"It's an atrocity what is being perpetrated as punishment on the people in Gaza. It's a crime... I think it is an abomination that this continues to go on," Carter said.

So not everyone is willing to pretend for Israel's sake.

UPDATE: For anyone who still believes in the myth of Israel's "generous offer" to the Palestinians at Camp David/Taba in 2000, you may now appreciate one of Israel's preconditions for talks: that "settlements are off the table," i.e., they are not to be discussed, hence, are not negotiable and will not be relinquished.

Settlements is just a euphemism for the 150 plus villages, towns, and cities built by Israel in the West Bank, in which almost a half million Israelis now reside.



Display:


US's Nuclear unbrella not needed by Israel given t (none / 0)

In your opinion, why do we pretend Israel doesn't have nuclear weapons?


Universal healthcare IS a core Democratic value
Comprehensively cover 100%, not only the healthiest 80%
by architek on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 10:21:00 AM EST

Re: US's Nuclear unbrella (none / 0)

Your speculation would be as good as mine. When you think about the Vanunu saga, which is still going on, it is evident that Israel would like everyone to continue pretending they do not exist.


Click on Peace, Propaganda, & The Promised Land and learn the truth about the I/P conflict.
by shergald on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 11:08:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pretending for Israel's sake (2.00 / 3)

Why do we pretend Shergald is an expert on this topic? Simply because he has an obsession with  hating Israel? It's clear for everyone to see which side is democratic, pluralistic and makes strides for peace and which side wants to murder Jews. For the roots of the Palestinians' deep-rooted Jew hatred, look at the Grand Mufti, the Palestinian leader's actions during World War 2.


Hillary 2008!
by New York Democrat on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 10:29:45 AM EST

Re: Pretending for Israel's sake (none / 0)

Would you prefer that we praise Israel for what it has done to the Palestinians for 60 years.

Re. the Grand Mufti, a title created by the British, by the way, he was exiled by them in 1937, but he was hardly a leader of the Palestinians. Yet, since it was open knowledge that the Zionists were intent on establishing a state in their country of over a thousand years, it is inconceivable that anyone would have expected them to be pleased.

Re. my expertise, I defer to Seigman and Carter.


Click on Peace, Propaganda, & The Promised Land and learn the truth about the I/P conflict.
by shergald on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 11:12:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pretending for Israel's sake (2.00 / 2)

Imagine you woke up tomorrow to find Hamas and Israel magically changed places. Israel's Jewish population was crammed into Gaza and Hamas had Israel's weapons, its tanks, its rifles, its missiles, its airplanes. Now, predict the events of the next two weeks, and guess how many living Jews are left at the end of a month.

Now go back to pretending Israel is the only bad guy in the region.


by dhonig on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 10:32:20 AM EST

Re: Pretending for Israel's sake (none / 0)

You just condemned Israel for its actions against the Palestinians.

In either case, war crimes are war crimes no matter who perpetuates them. There are no exceptions.


Click on Peace, Propaganda, & The Promised Land and learn the truth about the I/P conflict.
by shergald on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 11:15:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pretending for Israel's sake (none / 0)

Alright, picture your scenario and add the following details.

A young American peace activist protesting Arab aggression getting crushed by a Palestinian bulldozer.

Or the Arabs building a concrete barrier that separates Jews from their families and workplaces.

Or the Arabs building settlements on Jewish land.

What do you think the U.S. would say about that?

I don't have really have a dog in this fight, but I'm annoyed that my tax dollars are used in a lopsided manner to support one side in a mutually destructive conflict.

The mainstream media freak out when a Mexican-American waves a Mexican flag on Cinco de Mayo.

But last year I saw an adulent puff-piece about an American kid who went to fight the Palestinians in the Israeli army.  What a patriot!

Talk about double standards.


by emptythreatsfarm on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 11:16:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pretending for Israel's sake (none / 0)

You double standard invokes a fantasy situation that does not exist. My response above applies again. Thank you for describing and then condemning along with others what Israel is and has been doing to the Palestinians for 60 years.

There are no exceptions to civil and human rights injustices whomever perpetuates them, no matter how much they attempt to hide them from view. Inhumanity is inhumanity: it knows no exceptions.


Click on Peace, Propaganda, & The Promised Land and learn the truth about the I/P conflict.
by shergald on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 12:28:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pretending for Israel's sake (2.00 / 1)

um...that was my point, I think.


by emptythreatsfarm on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 12:39:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pretending for Israel's sake (none / 0)

It wouldn't happen for one simple reason - all the Jews would be gone.  


by dhonig on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 12:52:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pretending for Israel's sake (none / 0)

Because the Palestinians and their Arab allies are merciless, raving killers who want to kill every Jew in the holy land?


by emptythreatsfarm on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 01:42:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pretending for Israel's sake (none / 0)

Please note, first, my hypothetical mentioned only Hamas, not all Palestinians and Arabs.  Now, with no further ado:

Dr. Ahmad Bahar (acting Speaker, Palestinian Legislative Council):
"This is Islam, that was ahead of its time with regards to human rights in the treatment of prisoners, but our people was afflicted by the cancerous lump, that is the Jews, in the heart of the Arab nation... Be certain that America is on its way to disappear, America is wallowing [in blood] today in Iraq and Afghanistan, America is defeated and Israel is defeated, and was defeated in Lebanon and Palestine... Make us victorious over the infidel people... Allah, take hold of the Jews and their allies, Allah, take hold of the Americans and their allies... Allah, count them and kill them to the last one and don't leave even one."
[PA TV, April 20, 2007

"The representative of the Legislative Council, Dr. Yussuf Al-Sharafi, of the 'Change and Reform' faction [Hamas], emphasized the option of Jihad and resistance to banish the thieves of the occupation, who longed to drink the blood of our massacred people... because the Jewish faith does not wish for peace nor stability, since it is a faith that is based on murder: 'I kill, therefore I am'... Israel is based only on blood and murder in order to exist, and it will disappear, with Allah's will, through blood and Shahids [martyrs]."
[Al-Risalah, Hamas, April 12, 2007]


by dhonig on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 02:21:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pretending for Israel's sake (none / 0)

So those two speakers represent the views of everyone in the Gaza Strip?

Let's just say for the sake of argument that they do.  Why is that?


by emptythreatsfarm on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 03:21:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pretending for Israel's sake (none / 0)

They are official Hamas spokespersons.


by dhonig on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 03:24:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pretending for Israel's sake (1.00 / 1)

Dhonig is an official right wing Likudnik voice for Israeli propaganda. Nothing more and it is not worthy of serious attention.

Here we see repetition of the new hasbara themes about "Israel's right to exist" and that "Hamas is a terrorist organization." Imagine the US and even Israel condoning the participation of a terrorist organization in a fair democratic election, albeit expecting them to lose. The point is that Hamas was falsely labeled a terrorist group only after it inadvertently won the election. So only a dunce could not understand the talk as little more than a propaganda effort to disallow their participation in democracy.

Hamas is not a terrorist organization. The PLO in its early days was. As Jimmy Carter mentioned a few nights ago on the Charlie Rose Show, if you have to label Hamas' resistance to military occupation terrorism, then you must also see Israel's military occupation as a terrorist project. Indeed, looking at the death tolls among civilians including children who count for 20% of those killed, depending on the era, the Israelis have been five to thirteen times more successful than the Palestinians in terms of its terrorist activities.

All of the propaganda of course is intended to coverup the ongoing military occupation, colonialism, ethnic cleansing, and killing and maiming of innocent civilians and resisters of occupation. Truth is, that according to international law, a militarily occupied people has a right to resist that occupation. Morally, therefore, Israel comes up again on the short end of the stick. There is no moral equivalency between what the Israelis are engaged in and what the Palestinians are engaged in. Only right wing Likudnik ethnocentric or religious Zionists would think otherwise.


Click on Peace, Propaganda, & The Promised Land and learn the truth about the I/P conflict.
by shergald on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 04:02:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pretending for Israel's sake (none / 0)

Shergald has repeatedly made this false accusation about me in several different places on the net, though s/he knows it to be untrue.  Shergald is a damned liar.


by dhonig on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 04:49:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pretending for Israel's sake (none / 0)

Well, maybe you two deserve each other.

I've left the building.


by emptythreatsfarm on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:07:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pretending for Israel's sake (2.00 / 1)

Do I have to put up with this ANTI-ZIONIST BS every fricking day now?!?

Stop this at once!  It's schmucks like you that make me rethink as to whether or not I (and countless numbers of Jewish Democrats) really belong in the Democratic party!

We get it.  You hate Israel.  And it goes without saying that, by defalt, you probably hate Jews so I'd wager to guess that you hate Jon Stewart as well.

Stop the anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism at once!  This will not be tolerated by me.


The Kentucky Democrat
by kydem on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 10:51:35 AM EST

Re: Pretending for Israel's sake (2.00 / 3)

Believe me, Kentucky Dem, this Kansas Dem sympathizes with you completely. But, really, I'd tell you to ignore this crap if you can. Shergald and a few others on this site are obsessively anti-Israel, but none of them represents the views of the Democratic Party or the views of either of our potential nominees. Thank God!


Rules for Life: Do not annoy others; Do not be too easily annoyed.
by Not the only Dem in KS on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 11:01:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pretending for Israel's sake (none / 0)

I try to ignore it as best as I can.


The Kentucky Democrat
by kydem on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 11:12:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pretending for Israel's sake (none / 0)

These old themes have pretty much run their course in face of the realities discussed by Seigman and Carter. You undoubtedly put people like Jimmy Carter and Desmond Tutu, and a host of Israelis and Palestinians and Jewish activists, in the same boat as antiSemites and antiZionists.

You might actually find the environment more comfortable at Little Green Footballs, with its Islamophobic, antiArab, and antiPalestinian bent, since your criticism suggests that you believe the "killing and uprooting Palestinians" is perfectly okay with liberal Democrats.


Click on Peace, Propaganda, & The Promised Land and learn the truth about the I/P conflict.
by shergald on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 11:23:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pretending for Israel's sake (none / 0)

I don't count Carter as a credible source these days and here's why.  Need more proof?  Go here and read all six parts.  I'll support the creation of a Palestinian state when they agree to denounce terrorism once and for all.  Hamas being "elected" doesn't help the cause.

Ex-President for Sale: Part 2
by Alan M. Dershowitz
January 15, 2007 10:51 PM EST

I have known Jimmy Carter for more than thirty years. I first met him in the spring of 1976 when, as a relatively unknown candidate for president, he sent me a handwritten letter asking for my help in his campaign on issues of crime and justice. I had just published an article in The New York Times Magazine on sentencing reform, and he expressed interest in my ideas and asked me to come up with additional ones for his campaign. Shortly thereafter, my former student Stuart Eisenstadt, brought Carter to Harvard to meet with some faculty members, me among them. I immediately liked Jimmy Carter and saw him as a man of integrity and principle. I signed on to his campaign and worked very hard for his election. When Newsweek magazine asked his campaign for the names of people on whom Carter relied for advice, my name was among those given out. I continued to work for Carter over the years, most recently I met him in Jerusalem a year ago, and we briefly discussed the Mid-East. Though I disagreed with some of his points, I continued to believe that he was making them out of a deep commitment to principle and to human rights.

Recent disclosures of Carter's extensive financial connections to Arab oil money, particularly from Saudi Arabia, had deeply shaken my belief in his integrity. When I was first told that he received a monetary reward in the name of Shiekh Zayed bin Sultan Al Nahayan, and kept the money, even after Harvard returned money from the same source because of its anti-Semitic history, I simply did not believe it. How could a man of such apparent integrity enrich himself with dirty money from so dirty a source? And let there be no mistake about how dirty the Zayed Foundation is. I know because I was involved, in a small way, in helping to persuade Harvard University to return more than $2 million that the financially strapped Divinity School received from this source. Initially I was reluctant to put pressure on Harvard to turn back money for the Divinity School, but then a student at the Divinity School--Rachael Lea Fish--showed me the facts. They were staggering. I was amazed that in the twenty-first century there were still foundations that espoused these views. The Zayed Centre for Coordination and Follow-up--a think-tank funded by the Shiekh and run by his son--hosted speakers who called Jews "the enemies of all nations," attributed the assassination of John Kennedy to Israel and the Mossad and the 9/11 attacks to the United States' own military, and stated that the Holocaust was a "fable." (They also hosted a speech by Jimmy Carter.) To its credit, Harvard turned the money back. To his discredit, Carter did not.

Jimmy Carter was, of course, aware of Harvard's decision, since it was highly publicized. Yet he kept the money. Indeed, this is what he said in accepting the funds: "This award has special significance for me because it is named for my personal friend, Sheik Zayed bin Sultan al-Nahyan." Carter's personal friend, it turns out, was an unredeemable anti-Semite and all-around bigot.

In reading Carter's statements, I was reminded of the bad old Harvard of the nineteen thirties, which continued to honor Nazi academics after the anti-Semitic policies of Hitler's government became clear. Harvard of the nineteen thirties was complicit in evil. I sadly concluded that Jimmy Carter of the twenty-first century has become complicit in evil.

The extent of Carter's financial support from, and even dependence on, dirty money is still not fully known. What we do know is deeply troubling. Carter and his Center have accepted millions of dollars from suspect sources, beginning with the bail-out of the Carter family peanut business in the late 1970s by BCCI, a now-defunct and virulently anti-Israeli bank indirectly controlled by the Saudi Royal family, and among whose principal investors is Carter's friend, Sheikh Zayed. Agha Hasan Abedi, the founder of the bank, gave Carter "$500,000 to help the former president establish his center...[and] more than $10 million to Mr. Carter's different projects." Carter gladly accepted the money, though Abedi had called his bank--ostensibly the source of his funding--"the best way to fight the evil influence of the Zionists." BCCI isn't the only source: Saudi King Fahd contributed millions to the Carter Center--"in 1993 alone...$7.6 million"--as have other members of the Saudi Royal Family. Carter also received a million dollar pledge from the Saudi-based bin Laden family, as well as a personal $500,000 environmental award named for Sheikh Zayed, and paid for by the Prime Minister of the United Arab Emirates.

It's worth noting that, despite the influx of Saudi money funding the Carter Center, and despite the Saudi Arabian government's myriad human rights abuses, the Carter Center's Human Rights program has no activity whatever in Saudi Arabia. The Saudis have apparently bought his silence for a steep price. The bought quality of the Center's activities becomes even more clear, however, when reviewing the Center's human rights activities in other countries: essentially no human rights activities in China or in North Korea, or in Iran, Iraq, the Sudan, or Syria, but activity regarding Israel and its alleged abuses, according to the Center's website. The Carter Center's mission statement claims that "The Center is nonpartisan and acts as a neutral party in dispute resolution activities." How can that be, given that its coffers are full of Arab money, and that its focus is away from significant Arab abuses and on Israel's far less serious ones?

No reasonable person can dispute therefore that Jimmy Carter has been and remains dependent on Arab oil money, particularly from Saudi Arabia. Does this mean that Carter has necessarily been influenced in his thinking about the Middle East by receipt of such enormous amounts of money? Ask Carter. The entire premise of his criticism of Jewish influence on American foreign policy is that money talks. It is Carter--not me--who has made the point that if politicians receive money from Jewish sources, then they are not free to decide issues regarding the Middle East for themselves. It is Carter, not me, who has argued that distinguished reporters cannot honestly report on the Middle East because they are being paid by Jewish money. So, by Carter's own standards, it would be almost economically "suicidal" for Carter "to espouse a balanced position between Israel and Palestine."

By Carter's own standards, therefore, his views on the Middle East must be discounted. It is certainly possible that he now believes them. Money, particularly large amounts of money, has a way of persuading people to a particular position. It would not surprise me if Carter, having received so much Arab money, is now honestly committed to their cause. But his failure to disclose the extent of his financial dependence on Arab money, and the absence of any self reflection on whether the receipt of this money has unduly influenced his views, is a form of deception bordering on corruption.

I have met cigarette lobbyists, who are supported by the cigarette industry, and who have come to believe honestly that cigarettes are merely a safe form of adult recreation, that cigarettes are not addicting and that the cigarette industry is really trying to persuade children not to smoke. These people are fooling themselves (or fooling us into believing that they are fooling themselves) just as Jimmy Carter is fooling himself (or persuading us to believe that he is fooling himself).

If money determines political and public views--as Carter insists "Jewish money" does--then Carter's views on the Middle East must be deemed to have been influenced by the vast sums of Arab money he has received. If he who pays the piper calls the tune, then Carter's off-key tunes have been called by his Saudi Arabian paymasters. It pains me to say this, but I now believe that there is no person in American public life today who has a lower ratio of real to apparent integrity than Jimmy Carter. The public perception of his integrity is extraordinarily high. His real integrity, it now turns out, is extraordinarily low. He is no better than so many former American politicians who, after leaving public life, sell themselves to the highest bidder and become lobbyists for despicable causes. That is now Jimmy Carter's sad legacy.

Alan Dershowitz is a professor of law at Harvard.  His most recent book is Preemption: A Knife that Cuts Both Ways (Norton, 2006)


The Kentucky Democrat
by kydem on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 11:57:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Good God: Alan M. Dershowitz? (none / 0)

Alan M. Dershowitz is a well known right wing Likudnik, proAIPAC, Israel uber alles kind of guy who would undoubtedly criticize Seigman above, former head of the American Jewish Committee, before it too became a right wing Likudnik organization on a par with the Zionist Organization of America.

Dershowitz's only tactic is to slay the messenger. Why? Because only a fool would attempt to condone Israel's actions toward the Palestinians since 1967 or even 1948. In all other respects he is dishonest, a liar, and a plagarist.


Click on Peace, Propaganda, & The Promised Land and learn the truth about the I/P conflict.
by shergald on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 12:12:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pretending for Israel's sake (2.00 / 2)

Agree Kentucky Democrat! But please remember that EVERY SINGLE major Democratic leader is very pro-Israel and nuts like Shergald are relegated to the bleachers to scream like maniacs.

As for imagining Jews in cage-like environments...I don't have to imagine because it already happened, although the Palestinaly largely brought upon their own fate. The Nazis did not offer negotiations with Jews.


Hillary 2008!
by New York Democrat on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 10:59:38 AM EST

Re: Pretending for Israel's sake (none / 0)

When anyone suggests that the Holocaust justifies what Israel has been doing to the Palestinian people for 60 years, I refer them to the writings of Noam Chomsky and Norman Finkelstein.


Click on Peace, Propaganda, & The Promised Land and learn the truth about the I/P conflict.
by shergald on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 11:25:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pretending for Israel's sake (none / 0)

Finkelstein and Chomsky are nothing but SELF-HATING JEWS.  Finkelstein would rather hang out with the terrorists of Hezbollah.  Both lost their ways a long time ago.


The Kentucky Democrat
by kydem on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 11:47:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pretending for Israel's sake (none / 0)

That's just another old theme, a very old one. Can't you come up with more creative criticisms than this one?

Why not try tackling the substance of their criticisms, since you apparently believe that Israel is not doing what Seigman and Carter contend they are.

Or perhaps you do.


Click on Peace, Propaganda, & The Promised Land and learn the truth about the I/P conflict.
by shergald on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 12:15:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pretending for Israel's sake (none / 0)

Your observations are, in my view, correct.  There is a movement by the hilltop youth to establish outposts on disputed land.  Their justification is that they have a biblical right to it. This is exactly what they say, and I do take issue with American politicians who don't call them on this.


by TinaH1963 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:34:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pretending for Israel's sake (2.00 / 2)

Shergald, anyone like you who compared the Israelis to the Nazis is an anti-Semite, end of story.


Hillary 2008!
by New York Democrat on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 11:53:46 AM EST

Re: Pretending for Israel's sake (none / 0)

Sorry, but I never made a comparison between Nazi Germany and Israel, although others have, the latest I am aware of being an Austrian bishop who visited the Holocaust Museum in Jerusalem and then the West Bank. I don't think the bishop was antiSemitic.

This notion that such a comparison is antiSemitic came from a member of the AJC, who listed in rote fashion, things he thought were antiSemitic.

Actually, a better analogy was made by South Africans, including Ronnie Kesrils, the (Jewish) Minister of Intelligence, with the Afrikaaner period of Apartheid. Is he not accurate enough. The Nazis had no intention of colonizing France or Italy when they occupied them, which Israel has been and is continually doing in the West Bank (and Gaza earlier).

Case closed.


Click on Peace, Propaganda, & The Promised Land and learn the truth about the I/P conflict.
by shergald on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 12:23:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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