Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod

by alegre, Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 10:38:36 PM EST

Wow.  I have to admit my jaw hit the coffee table and nearly knocked my mug off when I heard David Axelrod on Face the Nation this morning.  

Bob Schieffer asked him about some recent missteps by President Clinton as he stumped for his wife on the campaign trail.  What we heard this morning was the nice guy version of David Axelrod.  The cameras were running and pointed straight at him, so of course he was going to pretend he couldn't possibly know what was in Bill's head - or heart when it came to the things he said on behalf of Hillary.  

Here's the transcript from what I could type out - take a look...

Schieffer:  What do you think about it Mr. Axelrod?  Do you think any of this has been calculated or is he just making mistakes or...?

Axelrod:  Well I can't climb into President Clinton's head and explain why he said some of the things he said - and some of them have been regrettable.  But let me say this - his wife is running for President of the United States and he is working very, very hard to try and get her elected President and to some degree that's understandable.  And uh maybe some of these indiscreet remarks can be written off to the passion he feels about trying to get his wife elected president so uh I think it should be seen in that perspective.

I do think its important for everybody in the process whether they're surrogates or the candidates themselves to be thoughtful about the things that they say because - words do have meaning and they can be disruptive and divisive and we don't need that as a party and frankly we don't need that as a country.

Here's a link to the video of the whole segment - this bit starts at about 2 minutes into it...

LINK

Turn off the cameras - put Axelrod in his war room back in Chicago and we get a totally different story.  

Hmmm... thoughtful.  Yeah - thoughtful as in the way his campaign's gone out - of - it's - way to paint Hillary and Bill as racists whenever it suits their purposes?  That kind of thoughtful?  And they don't just do it now and then - they make a point of turning up the noise to deafening levels in the lead-up to a primary in a state with a large African American population. So deafening that it drowns out all common sense or any attempt to discuss things that might actually help voters - like jobs, fixing the economy and healthcare reform.

Some of you might recall a little memo put out by the Press Secretary in Obama's South Carolina campaign back in January.  Huffington Post posted that memo, where we see how it maps out their strategy in all its divisive and ugly glory - take a look...

Subject: MUST READ: Key S.C. figure takes issue with Clintons

Clinton Supporter Andrew Cuomo, Referring To Obama, Said "You Can't Shuck And Jive At A Press Conference.

snip

Clinton, Criticizing Obama For Promising "False Hope" Said That While MLK
Jr. Spoke On Behalf Of Civil Rights, President Lyndon Johnson Was The One
Who Got Legislation Passed: "It Took A President To Get It Done."

snip

Clinton Introducer Said JFK Gave Hope, But Was Assassinated. Clinton introducer: "If you look back, some people have been comparing one of the other candidates to JFK and he was a wonderful leader, he gave us a lot of hope but he was assassinated and Lyndon Baines Johnson actually did all his work and got the republicans to pass all those measures."

snip

Bill Clinton Implied Hillary Clinton Is Stronger Than Nelson Mandela. "I have been blessed in my life to know some of the greatest figures of the last hundred years. [...] I go to Nelson Mandela's birthday party every year and we're still very close. [...] But if you said to me, 'You've got one last job for your country but it's hazardous and you may not get out with life and limb intact and you have to do it alone except I'll let you take one other person, and I had to pick one person whom I knew who would never blink, who would never turn back, who would make great decisions [...] I would pick Hillary.'"

snip

Clinton's NH Campaign Chair Raised The Youthful Drug Use Of Obama And Said It Would "Open The Door To Further Queries On The Matter." Clinton's Campaign Issued A Statement Distancing Themselves From Shaheen's Comments And Shaheen Issued A Statement Saying That He "Deeply Regret[s] The Comments."

snip

Donna Brazile Lashed Into Bill Clinton For Comparing Obama To A "Fairy Tale" And Said "It's An Insult...

snip

Amaya Smith
South Carolina Press Secretary
Obama for America

FOR THE RECORD:  Here's what Bill actually said when they attacked him over that fairy tale comment.  It wasn't about BO as a black American candidate - it was about his multiple stands on the Iraq war and the fact that the press and the media were giving him a free ride it all...

"It is wrong that Senator Obama got to go through 15 debates trumpeting his superior judgment and how he had been against the war in every year," said Clinton, "and never got asked one time, not once, 'Well, how could you say, that when you said in 2004 you didn't know how you would have voted on the resolution? You said in 2004 there was no difference between you and George Bush on the war and you took that speech you're now running on off your website in 2004 and there's no difference in your voting record and Hillary's ever since?' Give me a break.

"This whole thing is the biggest fairy tale I've ever seen..."

He didn't call Obama or his historic run for the presidency a fairy tale - he called the way the press were dealing with him with kid gloves a fairy tale and rightly so dammit.  

This memo was brought up by Russert in the debate in Las Vegas a few months back - Take a look...

RUSSERT: In terms of accountability, Senator Obama, Senator Clinton on Sunday told me that the Obama campaign had been pushing this storyline. And, true enough, your press secretary in South Carolina -- four pages of alleged comments made by the Clinton people about the issue of race.

In hindsight, do you regret pushing this story?

OBAMA: Well, not only in hindsight, but going forward. I think that, as Hillary said, our supporters, our staff get overzealous. They start saying things that I would not say. And it is my responsibility to make sure that we're setting a clear tone in our campaign, and I take that responsibility very seriously, which is why I spoke yesterday and sent a message in case people were not clear that what we want to do is make sure that we focus on the issues.

Now, there are going to be significant issues that we debate, and some serious differences that we have. OBAMA: And I'm sure those will be on display today.

What I am absolutely convinced of is that everybody here is committed to racial equality -- has been historically.

So if he took his responsibility to quash that sort of overzealousness back then - WHY are his friends still pushing the idea that Hillary and Bill are racists?

HMMMMM????

I guess some of them just haven't gotten that memo yet, because months after the edict went out from on-high, Rep. James Clyburn (D-SC & # 3 in the House leadership) claims that Hillary's only staying in the race to scuttle BO's chances at winning, to clear the way for herself in 2012.  He had this to say recently...  

"I heard something, the first time yesterday (in South Carolina), and I heard it on the (House) floor today, which is telling me there are African Americans who have reached the decision that the Clintons know that she can't win this. But they're hell-bound to make it impossible for Obama to win" in November, Clyburn told Reuters in an interview.

Clyburn has yet to endorse someone but I think we all know which side his bread is buttered on.  He pulled this same kind of dishonest maneuver in the lead up to the primaries in his own state.  

Craig Crawford had this to say recently...

Once again, a racial dispute over Bill Clinton's words erupts in advance of a Deep South primary where African-American voters are crucial. And once again, Rep. James E. Clyburn, D-S.C., is at the forefront of attacks against his party's former president.
Seizing upon Clinton's assertion last week that Barack Obama's camp "played the race card on me" in January before the South Carolina primary, Clyburn is leveraging his status as the highest-ranking black leader in Congress to stir the pot in advance of North Carolina's May 6 primary.

Somebody remind me again... what states are coming up next?  Indiana and... ?

David Axelrod is the biggest hypocrite going guys.  For him to pretend he can't or doesn't want to get inside Bill's head is the biggest load of bullshit anyone has ever tried to shovel in this campaign to date.

I think we all know what he's said and done once the cameras were turned off.  He's made every effort to paint two good and decent Democrats as racists.  It's sickening - absolutely sickening that he would then turn around and go on Face the Nation and pretend he's a good guy in all this.  In front of millions of people.

The thing is - we've seen how the guy operates and it's in no way what he pretended to be this morning.

Maybe it's time for him to find another job because he's becoming more and more obvious with every day that passes.




Tags: President, Hillary Clinton, 2008 elections, Face the Nation, David Axelrod, Barack Obama (all tags)

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Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (2.00 / 23)

The Clintons are NOT racists.  TO claim otherwise is just adding to the divisiveness in this campaign.


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 10:39:33 PM EST

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (2.00 / 9)

well said!


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that word I reach for my feather Boa!" -- Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 10:50:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (2.00 / 2)

How is it possible that the same person that wrote the 'toning down' diary can immediately pop over here and praise this one?



Lost rate and rec for issuing a '1' to a trollish comment. The troll, not so much.

by map on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 10:53:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (2.00 / 6)

i agree with the comment above mine.  

but i am able to have conflicting thoughts in my head at the same time, you know?  i did commend BO for toning it down but also think that there have been some unfortunate accusations being thrown at 2 incredible democrats (HRC and BC) of which i largely blame axelrod (and by extension BO).


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that word I reach for my feather Boa!" -- Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 10:58:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (2.00 / 2)

Speaking of conflicting thoughts, do you agree that, a) there have been some very unfair criticisms leveled at the Clintons with regard to race, b) there have also been some things the Clinton campaign has said that reasonable people could perceive as racially insensitive, and c) this diary fails to acknowledge that although the Clinton have been unfairly criticized in some cases, their campaign is not entirely above criticism when it comes to racially-insensitive comments?  


by jdusek on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:14:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (none / 0)

to address your questions...

yes some people could perceive comments as insensitive - but i think axelrod and BO using this for political gain is beyond awful.  and when you state that "Clinton have been unfairly criticized in some cases, their campaign is not entirely above criticism when it comes to racially-insensitive comments? "  no.  HRC has been unfairly criticized in ALL cases.  at best - BC's comment are patronizing - but racist - no.


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that word I reach for my feather Boa!" -- Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:23:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (2.00 / 3)

Just to clarify, I don't think that Bill or Hillary are racist either, but what I asked was do you believe that Clinton's campaign is entirely above criticism when it comes to racially insensitive remarks? Not racist comments, but regrettable statements? I gotta say that some of the remarks that you describe as 'patronizing' raised questions in people's minds about their intent, so I think it's fair to ask, "what did you mean by that?" and in some cases to reply, "having heard your explanation, I still think that was a poor choice of words."

My point is that the Clinton campaign is not blameless on this issue. As you said, they did say some things that could be seen as insensitive. Does that make them racists? No. Does that mean that every comment was part of a coordinated effort to use race as a weapon? No. But were there some instances where race was interjected in a way that was purposeful and wrong? Yes.


by jdusek on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:54:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (none / 0)

it is fair to ask 'what did you mean by that'.  and that is probably what some fair-minded individuals such as yourself said once you heard them - and i believe that both HRC and BC have said that it probably was a poor choice of words.

however - i do believe that when you say 'race was interjected in a way that was purposeful and wrong' that is incorrect and a direct result of a political effort from her opponents camp to shape them in that way as evidenced here:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/12 /obama-camps-memo-on-clin_n_81205.html


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that word I reach for my feather Boa!" -- Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 12:08:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (2.00 / 1)

I agree with you 100% that the fairy tale comment, the shuck-and-jive remark, and the LBJ comment were unintentionally offensive, and in the first two examples, totally manufactured issues used to score political points against Clinton.

But I think there have been other examples, such as Bill's comparison of Obama's South Carolina win to Jessie Jackson's failed Presidential run, or Ferraro's infamous statements, that were purposeful and wrong. And that's my only point here: that although the majority of race-related accusations are unfounded, I don't think they are above criticism for certain things their campaign has said.


by jdusek on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 12:28:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (none / 0)

the only comments that are from HRC directly are those the JJ and LBJ comparisons. since you take no issue with the LBJ comment i will move directly to the JJ.  how is this wrong?  unless there is something i dont know about JJ (which is entirely possible) how is this racist or racially insensitive??

if your competitor wins in politics - you want to play down your loss so that you do not appear weak. thats what BC did. simply to state an obvious fact that a previous AA candidate (who really had no chance at the time he ran) won as well was trying to minimize BO's victory.
i personally have no problem with AA's voting in 92% ratio for the first viable AA presidential candidate.  but lets be honest that this is what is happening.  


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that word I reach for my feather Boa!" -- Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 12:41:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (2.00 / 1)

How would you feel if someone asked Obama about Hillary's campaign funds and he answered:

"You know who else had a problem raising funds? Elizabeth Dole."

If Obama said that, the clear intent would be to link Hilary, a strong and viable candidate, to Dole's doomed-from-the-start presidential run based on the completely irrelevant fact that they both happen to be female.

The Jessie Jackson remark was wrong for the same reason: it was a purposeful attempt to equate two entirely different candidates on the sole basis of their race.

It wasn't just about downplaying the loss, it was about getting people to negatively associate Obama with Jackson's failed candidacy.

Not racist, but racially charged and intentional.


by jdusek on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 01:21:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (none / 0)

you know what - speaking for me - as a gal - i have no problem with that hypothetical statement.  there have been far larger sexually insensitive comments made (particularly from the media about HRC) but that is another whole conversation.  

and sorry i dont see how the JJ comment was wrong.  you know what i just wrote another comment on this below - take a look.


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that word I reach for my feather Boa!" -- Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 01:50:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (2.00 / 1)

So you don't see playing down your opponent as "the black candidate" as a racially insensitive (not racist) comment?

He could have used John Edwards for a comparison as someone who won SC but lost the dem nomination in 2000.  He went back to the last black candidate from 20 years ago.


by shalca on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 01:28:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (none / 0)

im sorry - i dont see this as racially charged.  yes - i guess he could have mentioned JE, but wasnt he still in the race at the time?  and besides that - as i said before - imo the comment was meant to minimize the win, to do that BC needed to compare BO to a candidate that won but was not really viable as the nominee = JJ, no?

and if i was black (i say this because we dont use the tern AA in canada) i might question why would BC say this, is this about race?.  but then i would think to myself - hey this is BC!  and then move on to the next topic.  unfortunately, BO's campaign decided that this was an opening for them to take advantage of.

hey its politics.  but unfortunately its these types accusations/smears or whatever you want to call them that follow people around forever.  v. sad.


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that word I reach for my feather Boa!" -- Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 01:46:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (2.00 / 2)

Too many times I see people lay the blame for Clinton's own divisive words (as you even admit) at the foot of the Obama campaign.  The fact is, people, mostly black people, were offended by what Clinton said.  They didn't become offended only after someone said they should be offended.  People saw the words for themselves and were offended by them.  I was, and at that time I was split between Obama and Hillary.

The reason I can't think to myself - "hey this is BC! and then move on - is because I know that BC is not a dumb man.  He is an expert politician, a yale graduate (both undergrad and law) and a Rhodes Scholar.  HE KNEW WHAT HE WAS SAYING.  This was only compounded right before PA when he went on a radio show, blamed the Obama campaign for his own words, and then completely lied about situation that led to this being reported to the press.  The following day he denied that he said what he said.  If it wasn't so offensive it would be comical.

Original Quote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qqd2dfjl2 pw

PA Radio Show: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxsrGUTcE Uc

Bill Clinton's denial: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWf9WpQEZ qI


by shalca on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 02:26:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (none / 0)

listen i cannot tell you or anyone else how they 'feel' is wrong.
while i agree with almost all of your observations of BC - and as you mentioned he is an expert politician, so i sincerely doubt that he would attempt to as you describe it - 'offend people' when in fact only 3(?) contests had been held.  and while i have previously agreed that it could be interpreted in a questionable way, i believe that BO campaign saw a chance to use race in a Machiavellian manner as evidenced here:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/12 /obama-camps-memo-on-clin_n_81205.html

and no - i do not blame 92% of AA's for voting for the first viable AA candidate for president - nor do i think its racist - but i do think that BO's campaign has 'worked this' volatile emotions in that community to smear HRC and BC.


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that word I reach for my feather Boa!" -- Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 02:41:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (2.00 / 1)

The infamous race memo.  A list of quotes out of the media, Clinton, and Clinton's campaign.  Far from the damning strategic memo to use the race card.

Now I agree that Obama's campaign should have kept to the high road and avoided race like the plague.  They did that through to South Carolina with notable exception in Jesse Jackson Jr. who was promptly silenced.  The fact is, Obama wanted to become Oprah-like.  Not seen as "black" but as Obama.  The reason there was so much offense taken by the list of quotes you see in the memo, is because it appeared that the Clintons wanted exactly the opposite, to paint Obama as the "black" candidate, the Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton in the democratic field, not to be taken seriously but by black voters.

Although I agree that the memo was not the best moment in the campaign.  I see it more as a response than as a "Machiavellian" use of race.


by shalca on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 02:57:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (none / 0)

last comment of the night for me - im pooped - but i think we do not agree here, while i cited the memo - there are other instances as as shown here - http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/03/11/ obama-camp-calls-on-clinton-to-oust-back er-who-said-media-coverage-is-race-based /

you state "The reason there was so much offense taken by the list of quotes you see in the memo, is because it appeared that the Clintons wanted exactly the opposite, to paint Obama as the "black" candidate, the Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton in the democratic field, not to be taken seriously but by black voters."
this does not make sense, in a logical or political way.  why would they do that? democrats are the party of racial unity (at least i hope they are) if your accusation was true, then as you previously stated as savvy politicians they would have know that a backlash would happen.  i agreed earlier that the comment was meant to minimize BO's loss - from a political standpoint, not a racial one.


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that word I reach for my feather Boa!" -- Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 03:17:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (none / 0)

I didn't want to respond while you were sleeping so forgive the delay.  But you asked why they would want to paint Obama as the black candidate.  I'm sure your question was rhetorical, but it's something I had to ask myself before I finally made a decision between Obama and Hillary.

First, although you say there would be a backlash if that would happen, I haven't seen it.  As so many Clinton supporters will readily remind us all, Clinton is not so far behind Obama that it is impossible for her to win.  It's simply extremely difficult, but not impossible.  So there wasn't a backlash except throughout the black community who took offense to the statements.

Secondly, in this country the black candidate loses.  They lose for any number of reasons, but if you can label someone as a black person simply trying to elevate black issues, the majority of the country (only 12% of the nation is black) will not vote for you.  See Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton as examples.  It would make sense to paint Obama as the black candidate, as extreme, and as not having the interests of all americans at heart.  When someone brings up Farrakhan when the question is about Wright, it appears that they are associating you with extreme black figures in an attempt to paint you with the same brush.


by shalca on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 02:15:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (none / 0)

i dont agree with your assertion that A) there was no backlash except in the black community - alot of people of all races (and in the media) have painted HRC and BC as using race in this primary (I COMPLETELY DISAGREE WITH THIS) however to say that there is no backlash about this perceived idea is incorrect.
and
B) you state that the black candidate loses - maybe i am naive, but i would like to think that the US is past that type of nonsense and sincerely hope that you are wrong

finally - i believe that HRC is the better candidate and have been sorely off-put by many of the tactics of BO's campaign and i think that its unfortunate that you based your decision for who to vote based on something (IMO) that is inaccurate.  but hey - its politics.


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that word I reach for my feather Boa!" -- Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 04:05:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (none / 0)

It's nice to hope.  But the fact that Barack Obama is only the 3rd black Senator since reconstruction (after the civil war) speaks for itself.  A lot of people would like to think that we're past all that, but the facts deny them those happy thoughts.


by shalca on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 07:14:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (none / 0)

yes well unfortunately white men dominate society in canada as well - but at the end of the day - no matter who wins the democratic primary - the US should be proud!


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that word I reach for my feather Boa!" -- Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 08:59:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (2.00 / 8)

Wow - thanks Canadian Gal!

Send Hillary some love if you get a chance ok folks?

https://contribute.hillaryclinton.com/fo rm.html?sc=ac0&rc=E5W3


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 10:55:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (2.00 / 2)

No attack on Obama is complete without a plea for a donation to Clinton's campaign!


by mefck on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:12:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (2.00 / 2)

In case you missed it - I'm going after Axelrod in this one =)


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:19:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (2.00 / 1)

Actually, you just asked her to break the law, technically. Heh. I should write a diary about how Clinton supporters are trying to get foreigners to donate to her campaign now, right?

;)


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:20:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Uh, no. (none / 0)

There are plenty of Canadians with dual citizenship (ahem), or just Americans living in Canada.

The donation form is pretty clear about not letting non-citizens vote.


by corph on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 10:31:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (2.00 / 7)

Every time Hillary wins an important primary, this happens.

Every. Time.

Enough.


by daria g on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:00:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (2.00 / 2)

Exactly, enough is enough. Luckily, we know she won't win any more.

;)


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:21:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (2.00 / 2)

When Bill Clinton, out of nowhere, said that Obama 'played the race card' on him right before the Pennsylvania primary, then denied saying it at all and yelled at the questioner, I knew somebody was going to find a way to blame the whole thing on Obama.

So the target was Axelrod.  At least I was close.  Either way, I'd love to have the mystical power to make Bill Clinton say idiotic things at will.


by Mostly on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:54:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (none / 0)

Get your shit straight, Alege.  His name is Axelrove, and you of all people should know it by now.


by SuperCameron on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 01:25:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Man, that's clever. n/t (2.00 / 1)


by bookish on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 07:22:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (none / 0)

haha. this is about as "controversial" as the over-heated hubbub surrounding hillary's "as far as i know" muslim thing. neither is anywhere nearlt as insidious as it's played.

oh, and racist? no they're not. they're also not above using race as a factor in a political strategy. i honestly don't see how you can deny that. but i'm sure you will. the cold hand of defeat is reaching up, so desperation beckons.


by jbill on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 10:37:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (2.00 / 9)

Another fabulous diary, Alegre. Thank you for helping to expose the frauduelt message of hope that the Obama campaign is using in the face of their negative campaigning--the future of America is at stake.


Hillary supporter for Barack Obama in 2008
by zcflint05 on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 10:40:03 PM EST

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (2.00 / 11)

Thanks.  I'm just sick of the race-baiting right before a big primary ya know?


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 10:42:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (1.00 / 4)

I'm sick of the Clinton campaign style, ya know?  It really has gotten to Karl Rove standards and thats not how Democrats operate.


by Bobby Obama on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 10:46:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (1.75 / 8)

Ummm not to put too fine a point on it but she's not the one saying the rethugs have better ideas than Dems, or trashing any ideas that came out of the 60s or 70s - ya know?


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 10:48:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (2.00 / 1)

This is not only nonsense on stilts, but I'm sure you know that.  


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 10:51:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (2.00 / 1)

Hey your guy said it - not Hillary.


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 10:59:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (1.00 / 0)

Sorry, Alegre, but flat out, right here- you're lying.

Lying.

This is a complete lie, and you know it. Sorry.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:02:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (1.00 / 0)

Go check the transcript for his performance on Fox this morning.  He said it.


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:20:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (1.00 / 0)

Ok so he qualified it with "sometimes" but this wasn't the first time he's trashed the 60s and 70s etc...

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/article s/2008/04/obama_on_fox_news_sunday.html

WALLACE: And we are back now with Senator Barack Obama. Senator, one of the central themes of your campaign is that you are a uniter, who will reach across the aisle and create a new kind of politics. Some of your detractors say that you are a paint by the numbers liberal and I'd like to explore this with you.

Over the years, John McCain has broken with his party and risked his career on a number of issues, campaign finance, immigration reform, banning torture. As a president, can you name a hot button issue where you would be willing to cross (ph) Democratic party line and say you know what, Republicans have a better idea here.

OBAMA: Well, I think there are a whole host of areas where Republicans in some cases may have a better idea.

WALLACE: Such as.

OBAMA: Well, on issues of regulation, I think that back in the '60s and '70s, a lot of the way we regulated industry was top down command and control. We're going to tell businesses exactly how to do things.


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:25:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (2.00 / 1)

And this is what Bill Clinton said, too, in 1992.  His whole DLC schtick was that both parties got it wrong in part and that he was going to be a Democrat who understood business and Main Street concerns.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:28:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (2.00 / 2)

In fact, early in his first term, a big initiative was Reinventing Government, which included reconsideration of what and how government operated.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:29:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (2.00 / 2)

Oh, God! He's saying the government can't fix anything, and trying to is folly!

THE BASTARD! He's clearly slamming every single thing from the 60's and 70's.

Alegre, this is just stupid! Really! I know you're smarter than this! And you've yet to tell me what your purpose is with all of this demagoguery.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:29:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (2.00 / 0)

Another example of a dualistic - and Manichean - world view.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:29:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (2.00 / 2)

"trashing any ideas that came out of the sixties and seventies"

He said that? really? I missed it.

Be kind of odd for a guy like that to trash the Civil Rights movement. Ending the Vietnam War? He got elected by opposing the Iraq War (the one former McGovern supporter Hillary "Obliterate 'em" Clinton voted for). Haven't heard him call for an end to Medicare, Medicaid, the Peace Corps, HeadStart.....

Or are you dishonestly distorting what he said to fit your tendentious, over-the-top rantings?

This morning your jaw hit the coffee table. The other day you were literally shaking with rage. Maybe you need a vacation. Surely it couldn't be hard to train someone to do your diaries... a stock phrase of outrage, some cut'n'paste.... Seems easy enough.


by BlueinColorado on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:07:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (2.00 / 1)

Obama never said the GOP had better ideas-that's a dishonest interpretation.  Come on, you're smarter than that.


by mefck on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 10:52:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (1.66 / 6)

Well, since you full and well know none of those things are true, Alegre, I'd have to say you're purposefully taking things out of context to further making a political point at Obama's expense.

But you'd never do that, would you?


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 10:56:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (none / 0)

Obama today on Fox News Sunday:

OBAMA: Well, I think there are a whole host of areas where Republicans in some cases may have a better idea.

WALLACE: Such as.

OBAMA: Well, on issues of regulation, I think that back in the `60s and `70s, a lot of the way we regulated industry was top down command and control. We're going to tell businesses exactly how to do things.

A Republican, hearing Obama say this, might nod along with Wallace. But most Democrats hear this and wonder why Obama has a problem with the EPA, the Clean Air and Water Acts, and the Food and Drug Administration, i.e. the big regulatory acts of the '60s and '70s? Especially when the Republicans have so weakened the FDA's regulatory power we have monthly scares over contaminated food and dangerous drugs, and when dealing with Climate Change, one of our largest threats, falls largely under the EPA's regulatory power?


by souvarine on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:13:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (2.00 / 1)

Sorry, I gotta throw the BS flag on that one.

First of all, Alegre made the patently false claim Obama claimed the Republicans were the ones with good ideas- from that South Carolina radio bit that Clinton did to that effect, taking his words entirely out of context- which she knows is wrong and yet felt the need to repeat it.

Secondly, you and Alegre are the only ones I've ever heard making these claims. I'm reading, hey, we have to be able to work with the Republicans, and having the government run all these programs 100% isn't necessarily a good idea.

I mean, give me a break. Now Obama doesn't support the EPA? You're really reaching there.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:16:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (2.00 / 1)

And the FDA wasn't created in the 1960s or 1970s. It was created in 1906!


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:24:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (none / 0)

The FDA was established in 1906 but the regulatory power of the FDA was significantly expanded into pre-marketing in the '60s and '70s after the Thalidomide scare. The EPA was established in 1970 by Richard Nixon. It derives the bulk of its regulatory power from the '60s and '70s era Clean Air and Water acts, and it and those acts are what people usually mean when they complain about too much industry regulation. The other possibility is OSHA, but I really don't think Obama wants to start attacking worker safety regulation.


by souvarine on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:50:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (none / 0)

BS flag?  But those are the regulatory programs that Obama's just belittled and not for the first time.


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:30:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (1.66 / 3)

Again, ad hominem attacks are great. Deflects the attention away from your inability to answer any really hard questions. Kudos to you. You're a credit to your candidate.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:41:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (none / 0)

I just quoted Obama saying today that Republicans may have better ideas. As for the EPA immediately after that quote Obama goes on to talk about "controlling pollution".  The EPA's Clean Air Act and Clean Water Act are the big regulatory acts of the '60s and '70s, what else could Obama be referring to?


by souvarine on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:32:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (2.00 / 1)

I explained it; the structure of government. Really. To suggest he wanted to destroy the CAA and CWA is the pinnacle of partisan demagoguery. Give yourself more credit than that.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:42:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (none / 0)

I never said he wants to destroy the CAA and CWA, but he does appear to be saying that they gave the EPA too much regulatory power. I think the EPA needs more regulatory power, especially as I watch the blue crab population dwindle in the Chesapeake Bay and some areas become too polluted to swim in again, like they were back in the '70s.


by souvarine on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 12:04:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (2.00 / 1)

You're making an incredible supposition. Really.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 12:25:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (2.00 / 1)

Yes, he said that Democrats "don't have a monopoly on wisdom." That is true, and thankfully Obama is smart enough to acknowledge that the other party, whose support we will need to pass Democratic legislation, aren't devoid of ideas that are worthy of consideration.

When pressed for specific examples, he offered that some Republican ideas regarding corporate governance and regulation make sense.  

That's not the same as saying that the Republicans generally have "better" ideas than Democrats. It's quite clear to anyone who has listened to even a single Obama speech that he does not think the Republicans have the better ideas. Alegre knows that, so it's disingenuous of her to suggest otherwise.


by jdusek on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 12:06:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (2.00 / 2)

Of course Obama never said that the Republican ideas under Reagan were "better" than the Democrats' ideas, but don't let that stop you from repeating this falsehood.


by jdusek on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:21:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (2.00 / 4)

You're really repetitive, Alegre. Yes, I read the WHOLE diary.  

And you know what, it's not just black folks who think Clinton is going for a 2012 strategy.  Plenty of other folks think so, too.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 10:41:52 PM EST

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (2.00 / 3)

C O L.  Repetitive?  Hmmm... the same could be said of you ya know? ;)


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 10:43:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (2.00 / 1)

Yes, I do need to repeat my points when you keep making the same argument over and over and over.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 10:52:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (2.00 / 1)

Ok - put up or shut up.  Show me one place where I've said Axelrod's a hypocrite for saying one thing in front of the camerais, and doing the exact opposite once they're turned off.

One diary - go ahead, I'll wait... ;)


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:01:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (2.00 / 1)

So, what argument are you trying to make, then? You don't like David Axelrod. Stunning. How does this help your candidate?


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:05:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (none / 0)

Yeah - I noticed you couldn't come up with anything.  Thanks for trying though =)


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:31:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (2.00 / 1)

Ad hominem attacks really help further your image as nothing more than a propaganda piece for the Clinton campaign, Alegre. I haven't seen you come up with an original idea or diary yet.

Nothing about party unity, why Obama supporters feelings and support for their candidate is valid, but why Clinton is a better choice, why ANYTHING but "OBAMA AND HIS CAMPAIGN ARE ALL HORRIBLE PEOPLE!"

Look how many times you've had to address this, and you've ignored it. The answer is obvious, because you don't have one.

Sorry, Alegre. Take this trite to Hillaryis44.org. I'm sure they'd eat it up.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:37:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (1.66 / 3)

Alegre, if you are looking for something to be outraged over, go here: http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/4/27/1812 45/542

And read the diary and its comments.


by mefck on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 10:57:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (2.00 / 2)

Oh yeah. That's just another example of the "Obama is an affirmative action baby" view being promoted that of course has NO racial content, oh no, none at all!


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:05:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (2.00 / 1)

A troll rating?  LOL.  Campskunk, maybe you should explain instead of always leaving drive-by troll ratings.


by mefck on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:06:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (none / 0)

which hardly makes it true. And I'd say most African Americans can see through this strategy and like Obama anyway, worry that it's not smart for race relations to pretend racism to paint himself as her victim and ask to be rescued, and would vote for either in the GE.  Obama has some problems with his pastor, for sure, that guy is competing with Obama, wants everyone to listen to his soaring speeches even though he's hurting Obama's chances both for the primary and the GE. Axelrod is a advertising guy, and clearly has no problem saying one thing and doing another.  


what a relief
by anna shane on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 10:52:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (1.80 / 10)

And where did ANYONE say that the Clintons are racist?

They have race-baited.  But that sure doesn't mean they're racist.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 10:43:18 PM EST

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (2.00 / 3)

Soooooo... explain the differences - please.  We're all ears.


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 10:43:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (1.60 / 5)

Racism means that you think one race is superior and the other inferior.  The Clintons don't have a racist bone in their bodies, of that I am sure.

Race-baiting is using racially charged language and comments as part of a political strategy.  Only the Clintons benefit from that sort of thing since blacks are only 12% of the population.  "Shuck and jive" is a racially charged term and there have been plenty of other examples.

Hey, the Clintons want to win and I can understand that. And they will do whatever they can to make that happen.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 10:47:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (2.00 / 4)

Race-baiting... hmmm - then can you PLEASE explain why Jackson Jr. jumped all over Bill's comments re fairy tales as racist when it was clear to anyone who read Bill's words that he was talking about how the press treats your guy - and NOT about Obama's campaign in general?


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 10:49:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (2.00 / 1)

Well, I will give you that one. I didn't think that was race-baiting.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 10:53:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (2.00 / 2)

Fair enough.

Now what about what Hillary said re LBJ?  She was right you know... he brought people to the table to get the civil rights act passed so he could sign it in to law.  She in no WAY belittled what King did - she's said repeatedly that she has nothing but the greatest respect for what he's accomplished in his life.

So why did Axelrod and crew jump all over her as a racist?  And yeah - his supporters and many surrogates DID call her a racist for what she said.


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:03:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (2.00 / 1)

It's historically incomplete. JFK and LBJ privately said many times (known via oral histories, tapes, memos) that they could NOT have done what they did without a mass movement.  

And besides, Obama's not running to be a Baptist preacher and civil rights leader. He's running to be president.  So what he hell was Clinton even bringing this up for?


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:08:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (none / 0)

Ask and you shall recieve.....
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0 108/Clinton_and_Obama_Johnson_and_King.h tml

Hillary was asked about Obama's rejoinder that there's something vaguely un-American about dismissing hopes as false, and that it doesn't jibe with the careers of figures like like John F. Kennedy and King.

"Dr. King's dream began to be realized when President Johnson passed the Civil Rights Act," Clinton said. "It took a president to get it done."

Basic summation is what people are now starting to see...actions speak louder than words.

;)


One cannot and must not try to erase the past merely because it does not fit the present.
by TxDem08 on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:28:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (none / 0)

Unless you explain your point, folks won't know what you mean by just posting a quote.  At least I don't get it. Sorry.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:48:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (none / 0)

Gosh, what a coincidence...another southern primary with high AA involvement and Clyburn is out there race baiting while Artur Davis called us all racist on This Week.

Yep, just a coincidence...my arse. One campaign and one campaign only has been playing the race card and it is Obama.


by Newport News Dem on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:13:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (2.00 / 2)

Aha.

So, you excuse your own bad behavior, again, by pointing to someone else's, again.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:06:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (none / 0)

What in heaven's name could be the possible political benefit of a strategy that would result in losing African American votes, right before a Democratic primary?  Especially a Democratic primary in South Carolina where they make up such a high percentage of the electorate?  Can you enlighten me on this point?

Also, Andrew Cuomo: was not a Clinton campaign spokesperson or surrogate, was talking in abstract terms about retail politics, was not talking about Barack Obama.  Does that matter to you?  To call that phrase race baiting is dishonest.


by daria g on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:06:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (2.00 / 1)

Not racial?  We are not idiots, although my family in NY thinks Andrew Cuomo is -- even the ones who support Clinton.

Why did they say that stuff before SC? Well, they miscalculated - they screwed up - it happens, you know.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:10:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (2.00 / 1)

The strategy was that they knew they were going to lose South Carolina.  So, take a 12 point loss, describe it as a black thing, and you're all set for Super Tuesday.


by Mostly on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 12:24:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (2.00 / 2)

This is still a progressive web site after all.  We all believe in recycling!


by mefck on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 10:44:32 PM EST

UGH (2.00 / 6)

You are taking something Axlerod said this morning and comparing it to something someone else in SC wrote in a memo back in January, and making a diary about it?

Take a day off if you have no material.  Nobody is going to mind.



Lost rate and rec for issuing a '1' to a trollish comment. The troll, not so much.

by map on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 10:45:00 PM EST

Noooo.... (2.00 / 3)

I'm calling bullshit on the way Axelrod pretended he's above it all while the cameras are on, and then turns on the Clintons and calls them racists once they're turned off.


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:05:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Noooo.... (2.00 / 1)

Thats nice, but you used an example from this morning where Axlerod was in front of the cameras, and compared it to what someone else did in a memo in January!

Don't you think that's a bit lame?



Lost rate and rec for issuing a '1' to a trollish comment. The troll, not so much.

by map on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:09:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Axelrod and "The memo" last month (none / 0)

Here is Axelrod quoting the memo just last month (pre-Wright):

Obama chief strategist David Axelrod suggested the emphasis on race is part of an underlying effort that has continued for months. He noted other allegedly insensitive comments by Clinton supporters BET founder Bob Johnson and New Hampshire co-chairman Bill Shaheen.

"All this is part of an insidious pattern that needs to be addressed," Axelrod told reporters on a conference call Tuesday. "When you wink and nod at offensive statements, you're really sending a signal to your supporters that anything goes."


by souvarine on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:18:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Axelrod and "The memo" last month (2.00 / 1)

Where does it mention the memo?



Lost rate and rec for issuing a '1' to a trollish comment. The troll, not so much.

by map on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:26:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

He's the lowest of the low. Using (1.85 / 7)

race -- a highly sensitive, emotional, and divisive issue -- to win electoral votes is beneath contempt.  This man makes Karl Rove look like Mahatma Ghandi.   And there's the Joe Wilson story, about how Hillary dropped everything -- in the middle of the impeachment hearings of Bill -- to fly to Chicago and support Axelrod and his wife with a fundraiser they were doing for epilepsy.  Their son has epilepsy.

And this is how her kindness is repaid.  What a dirt bag.


by miker2008 on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 10:45:20 PM EST

Re: He's the lowest of the low. Using (2.00 / 1)

Right. If the Clintons helped you on anything, you owe them your FEALTY.  Otherwise, you are a Judas.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 10:49:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He's the lowest of the low. Using (2.00 / 2)

Hillary's early work with the CDF laid the groundwork for programs that have turned my son's life around.  She fought for laws and got funding for the early intervention programs that means he'll have a good life rather than be written off as retarded.

This mom loves her for that work and dedication and there's not enough money in the WORLD - no job or position on earth that would make me turn on her the way Axelrod has.

How that man sleeps at night is beyond me.


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:09:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He's the lowest of the low. Using (2.00 / 1)

Come on. I'm glad you respect Clinton's early work but she was hardly the only person doing that work at that time.

And she's not the only person who works on the health issues in general today nor the specific problems Axelrod's son faces.

He has the right to work for the candidate he thinks is best without being trashed because Clinton was kind and helpful to him in the past.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:14:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He's the lowest of the low. Using (none / 0)

My point stands.  I don't know how a guy who's kid has been helped by Hillary could turn on her like this.

ANd I'm sorry but my story isn't the same as theirs.  Hillary played a much more direct role in helping his son.  How he could turn around and attack her is just mind-blowing.  The guy's got no scruples.  It's no wonder they call him the Karl Rove of our party.


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:33:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He's the lowest of the low. Using (2.00 / 0)

I've never heard anyone call him the Karl Rove of our party.  Did you just make that up?

And, again, no, we don't owe people our political support if they helped us personally. At work I can recommend people to particular positions and it would be unprofessional and unethical to base those decisions on who helped me out or on any other personal relationship we had. Even if they worked on a policy that was personally helpful, that wouldn't mean they were the best person for the position.

The same is true with Axelrod and Clinton.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:52:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He's the lowest of the low. Using (2.00 / 0)

you're kidding right? The disgusting pig Mark Penn is playing the role of Rove in this election.


by venician on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:52:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It's not that he is working for Obama, (none / 0)

just as I'd never say such harsh things about someone who endorsed Obama -- e.g., Bill Richardson comes to mind.   That whole Judas thing from Carville was hyperbole.  But that's what Carville is about.  

No, for me it's that Axelrod has orchestrated this campaign of character assassination against both Hillary and Bill.  The racism charge, the disingenuous, do-anything-win charge, charges of being Hillary being a liar.  Doing everything in his power to diminish her life's work and her standing in the eyes of the public.

Axelrod seems to have very little respect for the Democratic party, willing as he is to drag two of its elders through the mud just so his young and inexperienced candidate can steal away their hard earned and very much deserved African-American support.   It's hard to forgive man for using race as he has.  


by miker2008 on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 12:37:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He's the lowest of the low. Using (none / 0)

Rich dirt bag and getting richer every time an Obama ad runs. According to the great Kos, Ax has an unusual deal.  He's working on advertising commission.  


by Tolstoy on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:34:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I read the whole thing (2.00 / 3)

and I call Thumper's rules on it, and that will end my commentary on it.


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 10:45:25 PM EST

We all knew that as soon as Obama (2.00 / 4)

was defeated in Pennsylvania, the race-baiting charges would quickly follow. And right on que, out trots Clyburn. If it wasn't so sickening, it would be quite humorous. As it is, it makes me want to go hurl.


Obama supporter working to defeat McCain.
by Rumarhazzit on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 10:46:46 PM EST

Re: We all knew that as soon as Obama (1.80 / 5)

Gimme a break, devil dog. I think that's an honest emotion, and one I've seen expressed by people other than the African-American community. That's the problem, though- you break it down immediately into "race baiting".

But there are plenty of people who think this is true. They view Senator Clinton's behavior as indicative of leading down this very dark and convoluted path. I've yet to hear a Clinton supporter really take this issue seriously; it's been all "ZOMG!!! YOU'RE DUMB!" If you viewed Obama as being unfairly targeted by Clinton, and knowing the Clintons are masters of playing the political game, this is an easy assumption to come to.

Deriding these concerns don't make them go away. I know you disagree with them, but then you need to address them rather than ignore them.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 10:52:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

And "deriding our concerns don't make (2.00 / 2)

them go away," either. I don't believe there many coincidences when it comes to politics, and Clyburn's timing reinforces that for me. It is absolutely playing the race card. Saying that Hillary knows she can't win so she's trying to ruin it for Obama so she can have it in 2012 is complete and utter bullshit. It does nothing but inflame AA hatred of her in N.C., which is Clyburn's intention. It's nothing but an inflammatory accusation. That is my concern and "deriding" it doesn't make it go away.


Obama supporter working to defeat McCain.
by Rumarhazzit on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:07:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And "deriding our concerns don't make (2.00 / 2)

But you need to grant this may be a valid concern, regardless of whom is saying it when. You're still not truly addressing it, rather than again dismissing it off-hand because you think the person who brought it to your attention is using it to political advantage.

I have to tell you, if Clinton was doing this, I certainly wouldn't be surprised. Unfortunately, the Clintons have a reputation for being able to politic better than almost anyone else in the world, so these sorts of concerns are inevitable. You're still not giving me any reasons to doubt it.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:12:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

So, because Clyburn comes out (none / 0)

just before the N.C. primary and hurls some ridiculous and inflammatory allegation about Hillary's intentions, I need to address that it may be a "valid concern" for some people. I think not. I call bullshit on Clyburn. It is HIM that needs to provide some evidence for his claim. Otherwise it is complete and utter bullshit. In other words - race-baiting.


Obama supporter working to defeat McCain.
by Rumarhazzit on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:24:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So, because Clyburn comes out (2.00 / 2)

Fine. If you think it was a manufactured political ploy, so be it; that's not the point I'm trying to make.

The point I'm trying to make is, you're not doing anything to fight that claim.

Remember John Kerry? Swiftboating? Eh, I don't need to respond to that. It's beneath me. Yes, I'm comparing this to Swiftboating, since it seems to be  what you're equating it to- but you're not responding to it. So don't be surprised if people end up feeling this way, if all you've done in the meantime is go "ZOMG RACE BAITING!"

Semper fi, stiff-neck. Ooh-rah.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:32:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The only thing I can do is keep (none / 0)

repeating my claims and demand that Clyburn back up his allegations with facts. Hopefully the MSM will call him on it. We do agree on one thing; this is similar to the Swiftboating of John Kerry in that it is an outrageous and unfounded allegation. I will keep sending Hillary what money I can afford to help her to defend herself against this crap.


Obama supporter working to defeat McCain.
by Rumarhazzit on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:46:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The only thing I can do is keep (2.00 / 1)

Sigh.

Let me ask you this straight out- I think Clinton is trying to destroy Obama to have a shot at 2012. I believe it honestly, what anyone else has said nonwithstanding.

Why am I wrong? Answer this question for me. Assure me it's not the case, use evidence and personal anecdotes, and the like. Assure me you'd never support her if she did such a thing. Whatever. But do something.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:50:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The only thing I can do is keep (none / 0)

Sigh...

Let me ask you this straight out- I think Obama is trying to destroy Clinton to have a shot at 2012. I believe it honestly, what anyone else has said nonwithstanding.

Why am I wrong? Answer this question for me. Assure me it's not the case, use evidence and personal anecdotes, and the like. Assure me you'd never support him if he did such a thing. Whatever. But do something.

See how that works...


Obama supporter working to defeat McCain.
by Rumarhazzit on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:58:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The only thing I can do is keep (2.00 / 1)

But I'm happy to address that.

This would have more of an impact if Clinton was the frontleader. She is not. At the end of the game, Obama will have more pledged delegates and more popular votes, barring a catastrophe, which seems to be Clinton's only hope for winning the nomination.

So how can we say Obama is trying to destroy Clinton to run in 2012 himself?

We can't say the same about Clinton. She's run some attacks the Republicans could run as is against Obama in the fall, without any work done by them; the CiC comment is one that comes to mind. And with her vaunted "I've taken everything the Republicans can throw" argument, I don't see a parallel that you could employ against Obama in that way.

But really, you're just ignoring my points here. It does you a great disservice because it's only serving to further prove my concerns are valid, and not being addressed.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 12:20:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

No answer. (none / 0)

What a surprise.
So you put the argument in a way that even the other poster could understand, and, wow! nothing.
These Clinton drones are depressing. I only come over here to see how warped they are and annoy myself.
ÞÞÞ
by Mumphrey on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 02:14:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So, because Clyburn comes out (2.00 / 1)

What Clyburn said is this is how it's seen in the AA community. And there's plenty of evidence for that.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:37:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Clyburn, in Craig Crawford's words is (none / 0)

"stirring the pot" to make sure that's the way it's seen in the AA community. There's a difference.


Obama supporter working to defeat McCain.
by Rumarhazzit on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:53:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clyburn, in Craig Crawford's words is (none / 0)

He doesn't need to stir the pot. I'm white and I agree with Clyburn and it is being talked about out there.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:58:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clyburn, in Craig Crawford's words is (none / 0)

Here we go again.  Another "blacks do what their political puppetmasters tell them to do" argument.  I don't understand how people don't see how insulting that is.


by shalca on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 01:44:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Where was your goddam outrage (none / 0)

when Vandehei was saying the same thing more than a month ago?

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/030 8/9149.html

Her own campaign acknowledges there is no way that she will finish ahead in pledged delegates. That means the only way she wins is if Democratic superdelegates are ready to risk a backlash of historic proportions from the party's most reliable constituency.

Unless Clinton is able to at least win the primary popular vote -- which also would take nothing less than an electoral miracle -- and use that achievement to pressure superdelegates, she has only one scenario for victory. An African-American opponent and his backers would be told that, even though he won the contest with voters, the prize is going to someone else.

People who think that scenario is even remotely likely are living on another planet.

Or doesn't it count when a white guy says it?


by bookish on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 11:53:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm a Hillary supporter who has (none / 0)

been taking these issues seriously, and I've even answered you several times, ragekage.  Fact is, I believe, that you don't really consider the hypothesis that the Clintons never intended racial insults when:

1) Hillary 'cried' in NH

  1. Hillary said LBJ the policy wonk got the Civil Rights Act passed.
  2. Clinton called Obama's claim to have foreign policy chops based on a single speech "a fairy tale."

None of these things would raise an eyebrow had they been said by white people about white people. The fact that they were said by white people about black people turned them into the crime of the century.   Basically, the Clintons were put in a position of being unable to say ANYTHING critical of Obama without it being cast into a race issue.  That's a problem.


by miker2008 on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 01:44:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: We all knew that as soon as Obama (2.00 / 1)

Sadly - you're right.  They're getting too predictable.  I'm amazed the press and media haven't called them on it this time.


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:10:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: We all knew that as soon as Obama (none / 0)

Yeah, how come the Clintons keep doing that?


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:59:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Alegre (1.90 / 10)

Not that I think you'll answer me this time, but again- what's your point in posting these silly diaries? They're formulaic, they're predictably anti-Obama... tell me, who are you trying to convince? What's your purpose with posting these things?

If you're trying to sway Obama supporters, you're not putting out anything that would do that. If you're trying to convince Clinton supporters, the die-hards already agree with you regardless. So I gotta wonder, what's the catch here? What's your ultimate goal?

There's definitely a rift between Obama and Clinton supporters that will destroy this party and our chances in November if we don't address and fix, no matter who's the nominee. You decried the way you were treated on Kos by Obama supporters- but you are feeding the opposite behavior here, on MyDD, quite happily.

Enlighten me. Please.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 10:47:45 PM EST

Re: Alegre (none / 0)

Ha!  There's no comparison.  None at all.


by Tolstoy on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:38:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Alegre (2.00 / 2)

I assume you're referring to the Kos/MyDD thing.

I wasn't in the middle of it to witness it, but it doesn't matter. Alegre is just as bad as any of the Kossacks she railed against in her grandstanding.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:44:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Alegre (1.00 / 0)

You have no idea what you're talking about as you just admitted.  And it appears to me that your only purpose here is to insult Alegre no matter  the subject of her diaries.  She is a terrific writer and political thinker with the ability to touch hearts and minds.  And, yes, she can also call bullshit which is what she's doing here.        


by Tolstoy on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:59:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Alegre (2.00 / 0)

Uh huh.

I've said many times that Alegre is apparently saying that you can excuse your own bad behavior by pointing to other peoples'- which you're apparently admitting here.

She's not a writer at all. She regurgitates information. And if you'd like to consider calling her out on her purpose here an insult, by all means, further the ad hominem. It only furthers the idea she's an empty suit, so to speak, all words and no substance.

She's not calling bullshit on anything but herself.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 12:22:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Alegre (1.00 / 0)

You continue to prove my point.  You have nothing but personal insults.


by Tolstoy on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 01:04:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Alegre (2.00 / 0)

Tell me a way to phrase what I said, which is patently correct, in a way you would deem to be un-insulting.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 01:07:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Alegre (2.00 / 0)

Tell you what- I've gone through your comments, and no need to answer that question.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 01:10:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Alegre (none / 0)

Damn Alegre is weak, and Toystory too, for cowaring in response.

Ragekage, can I quote your question in the future?


Unable to rec or rate

Read this: http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/5/15/1427 30/254

by GeorgeP922 on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 12:24:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

If I've ever seen manufactured rage (2.00 / 6)

this would be it. I really don't know what it is that is so damn upsetting or hypocritical about what Axelrod said. So, he can't "climb into the president's head". How did you draw "hypocrite" out of that? He really can't climb into the president's head. Just like Senator Clinton confirmed that Barack indeed is a Christian, as far as she knows of course, because she cannot climb into the man's head. We've been told by everyone here that "as far as I know" is okay.

So, give it a rest. If you need material to be angry about, you should turn on CNN as they've been covering Rev. Wright's speech up in MI, and man, tell you what, you're going to have enough material for your diaries through the convention.


_____________
changiness
by lizardbox on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 10:49:34 PM EST

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (2.00 / 2)

Yeah, I saw Axeman on FTN this morning and I laughed out loud at his performance.  So that's what happens when your candidate gets his ass handed to him on a silver platter by Democratic blue collar voters?  The campaign management goes on talking head shows and vies for an Emmy for "outstanding lead bs performance by a political consultant."  

by Caldonia on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 10:51:20 PM EST

Next stage of grief: Anger (1.00 / 1)

Caldonia, hillary got her ass handed to her on a gold platter by the A.A. community. so what's your point? Hillary won P.A.but by not enough for her to make a dent in Obamas huge lead.
Why are Clintonites so full of hate lately?
by venician on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:00:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Paging... (none / 0)

...Yogi Berra.


by Caldonia on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:07:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Paging... (2.00 / 1)

This is like deja vu all over again.


by Mostly on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:48:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (2.00 / 1)

Pretty sure Mark Penn has that particular Emmy sewn up this season.


I'm as strong as a bull moose, and you can use me to the limit. - Teddy Roosevelt
by fogiv on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:08:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (none / 0)

Tell it like it is, Cal!!!!!!


by Tolstoy on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 12:00:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (1.85 / 7)

I so tired of this racist BS.  These types of diaries pushing this nonsense is doing nothing for our party.

Are you really calling out Axelrod here?  If he was Hillary's campaign manager, she'd probably be up 130 delegates and you would writing diaries asking why Obama doesn't drop out of the race.


by chewie5656 on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 10:52:54 PM EST

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (1.80 / 5)

This diary is just another version of a typical Clinton supporter diary:

Version 1: Obama is mean! And unfair! And is the one running a negative campaign!

Version 2: Obama is only where he is because he's black!  He'd never be seen as serious if he were white!  And he's trying to benefit by bringing up race so that no one criticizes him -- just like all those other unqualified black folks!

The good thing, as far as I'm concerned, is that voters and donors and superdelegates don't buy the first one.  My fear is that the latter has had some impact on the race.

However, since Wisconsin, even with TX,OH, and PA, Obama gained more pledged delegates than Clinton did and he continues to close the superdelegate gap.

So ultimately Obama will get the nomination. However, there will be a lot of healing that will have to happen afterwards.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:02:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

They're leaving her exit room. (2.00 / 4)

If you hadn't noticed, and I'm sure you haven't, a lot of people are giving Hillary and Bill some room to exit with grace and self-respect. Most people know the time is just around the corner.


Your old role is rapidly aging. Please get out of the new one if you can't lend a hand, for the times they are a changing.
by Travis Stark on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:01:51 PM EST

Re: They're leaving her exit room. (2.00 / 2)

LOL


by Caldonia on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:07:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: They're leaving her exit room. (2.00 / 2)

Can I hotlink this comment if Obama is the nominee?

;)


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:25:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (1.66 / 3)

Wowzers!  Another goofy hit piece.  This time on a campaign manager.  The comments thus far are ntertaining as always gang!  ;o)

DONATE!

to these folks, or:

DONATE!

to these.  Whichever suits your fancy.  When will we see the next rash of Jeremiah Wright diaries?  Oooooh, licking my chops for those.


I'm as strong as a bull moose, and you can use me to the limit. - Teddy Roosevelt
by fogiv on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:06:18 PM EST

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (none / 0)

Campskunk with the TR!  Shocker!  ;)


I'm as strong as a bull moose, and you can use me to the limit. - Teddy Roosevelt
by fogiv on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:46:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hey a chronic (none / 0)

TR abuser named tarheel74 just got banned so there is hope that the others will too.


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 01:26:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Haha! (1.85 / 7)

So deafening that it drowns out all common sense or any attempt to discuss things that might actually help voters - like jobs, fixing the economy and healthcare reform.

Or like flag pins and remarks at San Francisco fundraisers! Important stuff! Needs to be talked about!

Hahaha, this is so awesome. Team Clinton rediscovers substance just as it gets hot in the kitchen.


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:11:32 PM EST

Re: Haha! (2.00 / 1)

I see Campskunk's not a Harry Truman fan.

I'm with Harry Truman on this one.  Harry Truman said it best.


by Mostly on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:44:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I think (none / 0)

I like you.  Always a voice of reason around here.  Keeps me from despair.


by Mardarkin on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 08:07:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Some of the posters here.... (2.00 / 2)

who support both candidates need to consider anger management.

I'd also like to say that above all you should place your Democratic values first and your support for whichever candidate a distant second.  


This administration is not sinking. This administration is soaring! If anything, they are rearranging the deck chairs on the Hindenburg!
by venavena on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:16:37 PM EST

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (2.00 / 6)

"I think that they played the race card on me. We now know, from memos from the campaign that they planned to do it along."
- President Bill Clinton.

That is what the President actually said and what Axelrod was responding to. The memo you point to, which Barack Obama said was a mistake, shouldn't have been put together and personally apologized for (unlike the Clinton campaign that just shoves out the offending staffer and never accepts responsibility for anything), was a collection of quotes from the Clinton campaign and surrogates. But what the President said was that they planned to do this all along. Meaning he's claiming that they formulated a strategy long ago to race bait against him. Yet the memo you cite was a response to things that were said. So I agree with Axelrod, I'm not sure what the President meant.


Proudly joining the legions of people and states that don't matter on May 20th.
by Obama Independent on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:25:30 PM EST

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (2.00 / 2)

You left out that Clinton denied saying it the next day, even though he made the claim on the radio and there was tape of him saying it.  Very odd.



Lost rate and rec for issuing a '1' to a trollish comment. The troll, not so much.

by map on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:27:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (2.00 / 0)

The whole point was to remind PA voters of it. They already knew by then that they weren't going to get many voters from the black community.  So this way they could remind white people of how those black folks are always so-o-o-o sensitive.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:32:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (2.00 / 2)

Alegre, you are right.  Right before every primary with a heavy AA population, an Obama surrogate brings up race.  It happened it South Carolina, Virginia, Mississipi, and now North Carolina.

Thank you for highlighting this issue.


TexasDarlin blog
by TexasDarlin on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:34:33 PM EST

It's almost as if... (2.00 / 2)

race is a real issue in this country.

Regardless of the manufactured outrage, the truth of the matter is that actual racism by his detractors has hurt the Obama campaign far more than any supposed race-baiting by his supporters has helped his campaign.


by Slim Tyranny on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:42:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (none / 0)

Virginia?!?

And just because you have no idea about southern vernacular (Texas is not southern) doesn't mean you can bandy these claims about and expose your ignorance.

Oh, wait.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 12:12:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (none / 0)

Texas is southern.  Not sure what classification you're looking at.


by slynch on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 01:10:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (none / 0)

No, the vernacular between Texas and the deep south is quite different.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 01:24:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (none / 0)

I find not so much.  I've lived in Arkansas, Oklahoma, Louisiana, North Carolina, and South Carolina.  And, I've spent considerable time traveling through every southern state.  There are some differences, but not that great.


by slynch on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 02:07:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (none / 0)

A few -- stress few -- parts of Texas are Southern. I grew up here; I've lived her all of my life. I've also traveled within the South and know a lot of true Southerners.

Texas really is not the South. Texas is at least as much West or Midwest as it is South. In fact, after the 70's boomtown era, when the major cities grew mostly from people moving down from the Rust Belt, big-city Texas is a mix of Northeast/Midwest and West, with a bit of Southern for flavor.

Yes, it's an old Confederate state, so if that's your benchmark then it's Southern. But that's a pretty useless metric; Texas was at best marginally involved in the Civil War and suffered the least from it, and the least from Reconstruction.

Honestly, take a look at nearly any measure and you'll find that Texas is less "Southern" than even Florida, which is really not "Southern" either. It's not even new-South, in the way that much of Atlanta is; there's far too much Midwest and West in Texas to make it real new-South.

There are pockets of all sorts of bigotry here, of course -- but overall Pennsylvania (for instance) seems much more dominated by black/white racial issues than Texas does. Does that make PA "Southern"?


No Way. No How. No McCain-Palin!
by Texas Gray Wolf on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 10:36:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Thats (2.00 / 5)

How many times your jaw has hit the floor now?  Your jaw must be shattered at this point from all the dropping?!  I logged on this morning hoping to have a laugh at the faux outrage of the day and my jaw almost hit the floor when I didnt see one Alegre diary on the rec list.  I actually said to myself I wonder if Alegre is taking a much needed day off?

But then I just tried to guess what the next drama would be and low and behold, 2 hours later - boom - manufactured outrage.  Its almost pavlovian.  But to top it off, this time its even more bizarre than usual.

Your manufactured outrage is over someone saying something poltically neutral when they could have done what you want to accuse them of doing all the time - charging racism or race-baiting the Clintons.  So you are up in arms about Axelrod not calling the Clintons racist or not race-baiting them - huh?

Seriously, you are upset that Axelrod didnt go negative?  I didnt think you could reach any lower than you have before in working up your hatred, but I guess I was sorely mistaken at the depths you could reach.  I eagerly await the next low.

As for hypocrisy?  I just wont even bother going there too much.  Nice selective accusation because of course the Clintons would never be hypocrites - no never, shame the thought (cough Michigan and Florida count now cough, cough caucuses dont matter now cough, cough only big states matter now cough, cough only some dems matter now cough, cough its not about delegates anymore but the popular vote cough).  And dont get me started on her entire campaign team - Wolfson, Ickes, Penn, et al.  Their hypocrisy knows no bounds.

Dont get me wrong, I hold no false illusions about Axelrod and Obama, they are after all politicans and campaigners, so they of course will be hypocrites.  I just dont delude myself about who and what they are.

So please, for your own health, give it a rest if this is all you have left.  I hate to say this but I have actually come to pity you.  Honestly, I do.  I cant imagine what it must be like in your world where you are left with continually trying to come up with stuff like this.  I try and work out what type of brain and emotional state is necessary to get so worked up with such seriousness and emotional engagement like you do.  Either you are an amazing parody and the joke is on us or you are one very sad and delusional person.  You were once a great diarist who took on serious issues in a personal and emotional way but your dramatic slide into a one trick pony of Clinton delusion and Obama hate is terribly painful to watch.  Its like a slow motion train wreck though and I cant help rubber-necking.  I want to pull my eyes away but I am so fascinated with the wreck that I cant.  I cant imagine how someone can fall so far and so hard and so fast.  I wish you well once this primary is over whomever the nominee is.


by pattonbt on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:36:04 PM EST

Re: Thats (none / 0)

Pattonbt is dead wrong.  The point is that Axelrod (and Obama) are willing to say one thing, and then do another.

I wished Clinton would have stuck to his original story, because the race card WAS used on him.  There was nothing with malicious racial overtones that Bill Clinton ever said--that reality was simply a projection of Obama supporters that flooded the Obama-fawning media.  

I wish you well, pattonbt.


by MMR2 on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:44:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thats (2.00 / 0)

Oh, no, it just made perfect sense to compare Obama to Jesse Jackson because of some other reason than the fact that they are both black....now what is that reason exactly?


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:53:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thats (none / 0)

Maybe because Jesse Jackson is the only Democrat other than John Edwards to win South Carolina and loose the nomination in decades?


by souvarine on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 12:06:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thats (2.00 / 0)

When you look at Bill Clinton's actual statement, it was an incredibly patronizing way of speaking about Obama's candidacy and African-American voters.  Dismissing Obama's performance by saying "look, this other black guy also did really well, but the state is filled with black people, so the win means nothing" was not cool.  I don't think Bill Clinton is racist, but I do think he specifically invoked Jesse Jackson as a means of diminishing Obama's performance based on the racial demographics of South Carolina --- anything to avoid acknowledging that Obama performed well on substance.

Always be suspicious of outrage over race-baiting --- it's like starting a sentence "I'm not a racist, but..." --- it usually means something has actually been lurking there all along.


by Slim Tyranny on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 12:07:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Thanks (2.00 / 2)

Sometimes I need the well wishes.  And many happy returns to you.

I really do not want to get into the whole race thing because that wasnt the point of the diary.  The point of the diary was - OMG a politican was a hypocrite!!!!!!

How inane is that?  They all are, its time we dems realize neither of our choices are perfect and they are both politicans and they both, for the most part, tell us what we want to hear but wont put into practice 90% of what they promise.

Not being succint it would take me way to long to get into my issue with Clintons and race in this primary.

I will try and summarize though, so bear with me if it is an inartful summary:

1) I do not believe the Clintons are racist

  1. I do not believe the Clintons were intentionally race baiting
  2. I believe the Clintons tried to walk a stupid unnecessary tight rope while trying to deflate their opponent (perfectly politically acceptable) and denigrate their opponents win (perfectly politically acceptable) in a way that had the chance of being taken really terribly (politically stupid)
  3. I believe the stupidity (or tone deafness) of the statements opened the Clintons up to push back
  4. Some of the push back on the Clintons stupidity was way over the top and should have been called out, but when you screw up on race, considering our horrible history with it, I always forgive the oppressed side first.

Hope that helps to see where I stand.


by pattonbt on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:55:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Anger the next phase. (none / 0)

It's the anger phase in the grieving process:

"Whenever one's identity and social order face the possibility of destruction, there is a natural tendency to feel angry, frustrated, helpless, and/or hurt. The volatile reactions of terror, hatred, resentment, and jealousy are often experienced as emotional manifestations of these feelings."


by venician on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 12:01:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Anger the next phase. (2.00 / 0)

Evidently Bill is very, very mad, too.
http://thepage.time.com/2008/04/27/he-do esnt-like-obama/
We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 12:06:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Hypocrite? (2.00 / 6)

It's really rich to call someone else a hypocrite when your candidate has said things like saying she and McCain could be Commander-in-chief and Barack Obama has a speech and then turns around and attacks him for saying that all 3 of them would be better then Bush but he and Clinton would be better then McCain. It's hypocritical to attack Barack Obama as naive and irresponsible for suggesting we attack terrorists in Pakistan and then to advocate the utter destruction of Iran if it attacks Israel. It's hypocritical to attack Barack Obama for praising Reagan when both she and President Clinton have done the same. It's hypocritical to say how dare a Democrat attack another Democrat on the issue of healthcare when she had been attacking him on it for months. This brings to mind a saying about glass houses and stones...


Proudly joining the legions of people and states that don't matter on May 20th.
by Obama Independent on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:40:05 PM EST

Re: Hypocrite? (none / 0)

My only purpose in this post is to clarify a misconception you have.

Hillary's comments about John McCain were said in the context of general election perceptions.  Clearly, because John McCain has a lot of experiences abroad, including his real-American-hero stories, he is automatically accepted as a worthy steward of our military in the eyes of Average Joe.  So she was underscoring the point that he will make this a National Security election (when doesn't the GOP do that..), and suggesting that Barack is going to have trouble going toe-to-toe with him in that regard.

You are free to disagree with that, mind you.

But that was her point, and it is legitimate observation.  She has never said he would be a better Commander in Chief than Barack.  And many, many times, her campaign staff have stressed that either of our candidates would be better leaders of our military than John McCain.  I just heard Clinton's campaign folks say that again on CNN Late Edition today.

So, as I say, feel free to disagree with her, but please don't misrepresent what she said.  Hillary is very loyal to her party and would never say that John McCain would be a better President than Barack.


by bobbank on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 12:15:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite? (none / 0)

"I think that I have a lifetime of experience that I will bring to the White House. I know Senator McCain has a lifetime of experience to the White House. And Senator Obama has a speech he gave in 2002."

"I believe that I've done that. Certainly, Sen. McCain has done that and you'll have to ask Sen. Obama with respect to his candidacy," she said.

Two different quotes on two different days. Now it's clear to me what she meant. She is ready, John McCain is ready, Barack is not. Now if she meant to say she is ready or thinks she is better then she is free to make that case. She could say we know the Republican nominee is John McCain and National Security will be a top issue I believe I'm the best candidate to take him on in this arena. I wouldn't have a problem with her making that argument. But that isn't what she did. She clearly said she is ready, McCain is ready, but that Barack guy? Of course we all know national security will be a priority for the GOP but she didn't need to draw the comparison that placed Barack as not ready. I imagine we will be seeing that clip in a future attack ad during the general election.

It goes to the heart of the anger that I and many Obama supporters feel towards the rhetoric of the Clinton campaign. They are not content to simply portray Senator Clinton as the better choice and instead portray Senator Obama as weak, cowardly, unprepared, unelectable, etc. That is the bridge too far. Don't get me wrong if she becomes the nominee I will vote for her, or more precisely I'll vote against John McCain nominating the next 2-4 supreme court justices, but there is a lot of anger out there among Obama supporters on what we see as the attempted kneecapping of Senator Obama by Senator and President Clinton.


Proudly joining the legions of people and states that don't matter on May 20th.
by Obama Independent on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 01:09:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (none / 0)

Anyone want to bet when Barack starts making speeches talking about "hoodwinking and bamboozling" and the ole "okey-doke"? He hasn't had a state to do that with in about a month!


Hillary supporter for Barack Obama in 2008
by zcflint05 on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:40:21 PM EST

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (none / 0)

Come again?


I'm as strong as a bull moose, and you can use me to the limit. - Teddy Roosevelt
by fogiv on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:49:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (2.00 / 1)

Ignore him. He doesn't have a clue about southern vernacular, and thinks something Obama said in Mississippi was race-baiting, or something.

You'd think Clinton would know better, being a sout- oh, wait. That's right.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 12:01:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (none / 0)

Really, because I don't think "bamboolzing" or "hookwinking" is used by the typical person in the South, unless they are Malcolm X, whom those terms became very popular with in his speeches.

Sounds like race baiting to me.


Hillary supporter for Barack Obama in 2008
by zcflint05 on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 12:17:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (2.00 / 1)

Well, as I mentioned earlier, you're wrong.

Let me bold that- wrong.

Heck, first thing that comes to mind- I had a little old white redneck woman railing against me for perpetuating that old "okie-dokie" because we wouldn't redeem her gift-card from another retailer. I remember because she then called corporate and it was on last week's VOC survey, too.

Sounds like you're blindly perpetuating things that suit your preconceived political beliefs to me.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 12:28:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (none / 0)

He is referring to Barack Obama's tendency to immitate Malcom X when talking to "deep South" constituencies.


by bobbank on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 12:09:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (2.00 / 0)

Malcom X or MLK?  Or maybe Jesse Jackson.  Wait he sounded like MLK too.  Hmmm.

Hey, ever notice how Dwight Yoakam sang exactly like Buck Owens?  Bob Dylan still sounds much like Woody Guthrie (right down to the slurring of words resuling from Woody's Huntington's Disease).


I'm as strong as a bull moose, and you can use me to the limit. - Teddy Roosevelt
by fogiv on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 12:20:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (none / 0)

I'm not sure why you're mocking me but Malcolm X was what I intended to say.


by bobbank on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 12:30:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (none / 0)

Whoa.  Easy Bob.  Not intending to mock you.

I just found it interesting that you cited Malcom X.  Apart from his use of the word bamboozle, I don't see much similarity in tone or inflection.  Malcom X was generally far more fiery.

I think BO sounds a little more like MLK when he addresses predominantly black audiences, though I've caught hints of same when he speaks to more diverse groups as well.  Sometimes, people emulate the tone or style of those they admire, as was the case with Dylan and Yoakam.
 


I'm as strong as a bull moose, and you can use me to the limit. - Teddy Roosevelt
by fogiv on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 12:46:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Nice Talking Points (2.00 / 1)

Where did you get them?


by SovSov on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:50:30 PM EST

My mother use to say... (2.00 / 1)

never yell, what will you do for an encore?  Yell louder?  Hint Hint Hint


by SovSov on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:52:11 PM EST

Hypocrite (2.00 / 1)


   thy name is Alegre! Denying your own candidate's actions while whining about the opposition doing the exact same thing is hypocrisy! Plain and simple!!
by southernman on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:53:22 PM EST

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (2.00 / 5)

Let it be said:

Alegre never answered a single question referenced in her direction. She merely conducted ad hominem attacks in order to divert attention away from them, or ignored them outright.

Why anyone still takes her seriously is beyond me.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:59:58 PM EST

Ragekage, I'm curious (1.00 / 0)

In your very first post here, you stated that you worked full time, went to school first time, and had sole custody of an infant daughter.

Yet a simple review of your prolific posting history could make some people wonder how you could possibly do all these things.

Just curious.


Never let the bullies win.
by SluggoJD on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 12:21:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ragekage, I'm curious (2.00 / 0)

Pretty easy there, slim, when you can't go anywhere or do anything other than work, go to school, and stay home with a teething baby, who not ten minutes ago woke up screaming because she managed to turn herself around and into the bars of her crib.

But, hey, ignore the fact I've posted my personal  blog site, and not even this evening posted pictures of me and her, or that I've gone canvassing with my daughter and Obama supporters from here in North Carolina.

Sorry, Sluggo, that's a pretty slimy thing to suggest. If I were making that claim of a Clinton supporter hereabouts, I'd be banned from this forum so quickly you wouldn't have time to post a snide rejoinder.

And Alegre thinks Axelrod is hypocritical.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 12:31:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

That's a nice picture (none / 0)

Any others?


Never let the bullies win.
by SluggoJD on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 12:46:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That's a nice picture (none / 0)

Many.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 12:47:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That's a nice picture (none / 0)

So are you in Canada or Arkansas?


Never let the bullies win.
by SluggoJD on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 12:53:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That's a nice picture (2.00 / 0)

I'm not sure whether to snap at you for being a smartass, answer you as an honest question as if you really care, or if this game is even worth playing with you.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 12:58:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That's a nice picture (none / 0)

It was a simple, intellectually honest question, that deserves an equally honest answer.  And it's not a game - you posted your photo, you posted that you provided a link to your blog, I couldn't find your link but I found this.

So I asked a question.


Never let the bullies win.
by SluggoJD on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 01:08:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That's a nice picture (2.00 / 0)

Ahhhh. You might want to ask Bobswern how well trying to pin that page on me worked out for him. Or the Kos account named "ragekage". Or some right wing site- I forget which- wherein someone also was named "ragekage".

But hey, thanks for giving plenty of evidence for a track record of being a troll. As it is, I'm glad you didn't find my actual blog page. I posted it once here, it's in my comments archive somewhere, but I've got the safety of my baby girl to consider nowadays, and I don't need some wackos sifting through my personal information doing God only knows what.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 01:14:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That's a nice picture (2.00 / 0)

You really think Reverend Wright is a Muslim, eh? Very prolific. Seriously. How interesting, by plugging that email into Google, what it brings up. And on which sites!

Wow!


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 01:19:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That's a nice picture (none / 0)

Either post where I (not snarking as Rove) ever said anything of the sort, or else apologize.

Because I never have, and the name "SluggoJD" is not linked in any way to that crap.


Never let the bullies win.
by SluggoJD on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 01:38:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That's a nice picture (2.00 / 0)

Ahh, my mistake. See, I just plugged "Sluggo JD" into google, which popped up a NoQuarter profile:

Name: Sluggo JD
Email: susanunpc@gmail.com

I then plugged that email address into Google, and wow. Let's see some of the results, shall we?

http://www.ranchers.net/forum/about25372 .html

Current Article- Jeremiah Wright Was a Muslim: Why That Matters, By Bud White
Author: Bud White
Name: Bud White
Email: susanunpc@gmail.com

All a stunning coincidence, I'm sure.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 01:45:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That's a nice picture (2.00 / 0)


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 01:47:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That's a nice picture (none / 0)

If that's the extent of your research capabilities, perhaps you need to post less and study harder.


Never let the bullies win.
by SluggoJD on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 01:56:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That's a nice picture (2.00 / 0)

I'd say that's pretty damning evidence; that's just one of many. Shall I pull up more? Or was your email address stolen?

Oh, dude. You got BUSTED! And think, if you kept your mouth shut, nobody might've called you on it!


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 02:00:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That's a nice picture (none / 0)

Ragekage, might I suggest you retract the above post.

You are who you say you are, which is good.

And I am who I say I am - anyone who doubts that is free to contact Brad Friedman of Bradblog, Bev Harris of blackboxvoting.org, or simply learn how to google when looking up something - like me, SluggoJD, aka John Dean of Santa Ana, CA.

No one uses that name online but me.
So it's not hard to see who and what I am.


Never let the bullies win.
by SluggoJD on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 02:51:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

SLUGGO IS A REPUBLICAN TROLL! (2.00 / 0)

Check it out, everyone!


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 01:59:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: SLUGGO IS A REPUBLICAN TROLL! (none / 0)

You're burying yourself.


Never let the bullies win.
by SluggoJD on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 02:06:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: SLUGGO IS A REPUBLICAN TROLL! (2.00 / 0)

Hey, hey, if I'm wrong, I'll be the first to admit it. Why, it's an honest question and concern, isn't it? You obviously thought so with me; gosh, we've got a nice track record proving you thought so.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 02:07:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: SLUGGO IS A REPUBLICAN TROLL! (none / 0)

Well there's an easy way to settle this in 5 minutes - you game?


Never let the bullies win.
by SluggoJD on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 02:11:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: SLUGGO IS A REPUBLICAN TROLL! (2.00 / 0)

Not really. If you're a Republican troll, once this bullshit nonsense between our parties is over, you'll disappear or be exposed. Certainly, this gives credence to questioning your motives for being around here, and if you're particularly vitriolic again it's easy to point this out to the site admins, and let them make their own judgment.

It's two o'clock in the morning, I've got the Decameron and Christine de Pizan's The Book of the City of the Ladies reverberating through my head, and the baby seems to still be asleep. I'm going to steal a few hours if she'll let me.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 02:15:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: SLUGGO IS A REPUBLICAN TROLL! (none / 0)

No, I meant about you...it's quite simple.

You said this is your blog.

I've posted a comment to the most recent blog post, and it is awaiting the blog owner's approval.

All you have to do is log in, approve it, and I eat crow.


Never let the bullies win.
by SluggoJD on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 02:17:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: SLUGGO IS A REPUBLICAN TROLL! (2.00 / 1)

You run a site dedicated to railing against trolls on Daily Kos?

Yikes. Well, less a Republican troll and more an anti-Obama one, then, I suppose. Still. We're trying to elect Democrats, not demean and slander each other.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 02:33:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: SLUGGO IS A REPUBLICAN TROLL! (2.00 / 0)

I apologize.

And I'm glad you are who you say you are.  I served 16 years, and if there's anything I can't stand, it's someone pretending to be a vet.

Troll busting is a hobby of mine.  I've outed Diebold's Robert Pelletier, aka therealrobp, rendered AnonymousArmy impotent, and knocked off a few smaller ones.

It must be rough being so young, having to raise a baby by yourself.  I really don't see how you can do all the things you're doing, perhaps you should try to slow down a little before you blow a fuse.

As for Obama, I am a Democrat, and regardless of the fact that his campaign has disgusted me, I will never vote right wing.

As for the SusanUnPC thing, Susan contacted me a few days ago in an email, and asked if she could post my Karl Rove snark diary at Larry Johnson's site.  She said she would create the user name SluggoJD for me, so I didn't have to do anything.  I gave her my permission...it was only the second time anyone has ever wanted to post something of mine.  I don't see how you got her email address with my well-known user name...no one else uses the name online but me (for years).

We're cool, but I suggest a little more humility.  Believe it or not, sometimes older folks have something you younger folks lack.

John Dean
SluggoJD


Never let the bullies win.
by SluggoJD on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 02:42:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Alright (none / 0)

I can respect that. My apologies for suggesting otherwise.

Well, I tell ya, it ain't easy. I never expected to be 24 and raising a baby all by myself, with an ex who's not "ready to be a mom", working at a full-time job, having to choose between dropping college altogether, or trying to finish Nursing clinicals somehow. If four years in the Navy did anything, it taught me that when you have to, you just deal. Take it one second, minute, hour, day at a time, and you just deal. What other choice is there?

I tend to get short-fused when I have to defend my family (the baby and I), as I felt I was having to do with you.

Christ Almighty, though, it's three o'clock in the goddamn morning. Good night to you, sir, and if your mission is to bust Republican trolls, I wish you well.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 02:52:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Alright (none / 0)

I agree, if there's anything the service can teach people, it's what you said...if you must do something, don't whine, just do it.  Make it happen.

And so you're making it happen.  The good news is, someday you'll look back at these days and smile with pride at what you accomplished.  No doubt, your kid will be proud as well.

My basic hobby is to bust right wing trolls, but the fact is, there's a lot of folks online, and it isn't easy...and the pay sucks lol.  However, I've found it rather disturbing just how many folks on the left can lie every bit as much as those on the right.  I thought our side was better than that.

Good night,
John


Never let the bullies win.
by SluggoJD on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 03:04:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: SLUGGO IS A REPUBLICAN TROLL! (none / 0)

By the way, I don't "run a site" - it's a blog, nothing more.

http://dailykostrollwatch.blogspot.com/

And here's my previous one, before blogger became part of google and I lost control.

http://www.bozosrnot4bush.blogspot.com/


Never let the bullies win.
by SluggoJD on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 02:56:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Definition Please (none / 0)

What does 'C O L' mean?  I see this in posts all the time.

Thanks.


by pattonbt on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 12:05:57 AM EST

Re: Definition Please (2.00 / 0)

I believe it means coughing out loud, but as I am not 12 years old I really don't know. I am curious as to why an adult would use such a childish expression though? Maybe when they can't answer questions they just revert to this tactic. King of like,  I know that's you, but what am I.

I guess it's why she won't debate. Without being able to cut and paste her only recourse is sticking out her tongue and saying HA HA.


by venician on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 12:26:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Definition Please (2.00 / 0)

Crying out loud, I believe.


by Mostly on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 12:37:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

My thoughts (2.00 / 2)

Alegre,

I get very upset when I think about this topic, like you do I'm sure.  It really bothers me the way Obama's campaign has handled the issue of race.  And as I reviewed the facts in each of these little mini-dramas I have been completely, 100% convinced that the Obama campaign very deliberately sought to make a wedge issue out of race, destroying the Clinton's honorable legacy in the process.

And for those of you Obama supporters who think I am one of the reasonable ones, let me just underscore this point: I looked at this very closely, and at the time I began looking at it I was still in Obama's camp.  And this infuriated me enough to drive me out of that camp.  This upsets me far more than any micro-scandal or bizarre association he may have.  So, take that for what it's worth.

Having said that..

I suggest you be careful in how you approach this because we know the script now.  The game is race-baiting, and if you give into your anger (which is understandable, I know), you are letting them win.  So I would just urge you to be very disciplined when addressing this subject.

I would also very much like to see someone put a diary together that highlights the (many) accomplishments of both President Clinton and Senator Clinton on behalf of the African American community.  Dr. Angelou has some wonderful quotes about looking past complexion, as she prefers to call it in this context.  And Hillary herself has done a wonderful job in her past few speeches and during the date of casting this subject in a new, more positive tone: neither Barack, nor Hillary, were fully included in our Founding Fathers' original plan for this country.  And yet, no matter who is nominated, from this point forward, all African American children and all little girls will grow up knowing that anything is possible for them.


by bobbank on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 12:07:59 AM EST

Re: My thoughts (none / 0)

Where were you when Bill Clinton was bringing up race right before the PA primary?



Lost rate and rec for issuing a '1' to a trollish comment. The troll, not so much.

by map on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 12:22:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My thoughts (none / 0)

I don't know what you have in mind.  But you will have to give me direct citation and full context, because this is a game I am very tired of playing with the Obama campaign and its supporters.

Sorry for being blunt.  I have a hard time staying calm when talking about this.


by bobbank on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 12:32:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My thoughts (none / 0)

I'll try to respond tomorrow.



Lost rate and rec for issuing a '1' to a trollish comment. The troll, not so much.

by map on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 12:47:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My thoughts (none / 0)

I'll look forward to it - gonna hit the sheets for now.


by bobbank on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 12:50:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

It's like a re-run of a bad b-movie (2.00 / 1)

Few days ago a diarist wrote something about NC demographics and made the shameful and egregious conclusion that HRC will appeal to the racist white vote much like Jesse Helms to win NC anf this followed the heels of Clyburn.
So here we are again another Southern state with a large black and "creative class" (read gullible elite liberal) population and the Obama supporters have started their race-baiting...anything to win.
Personally if I were to advice the Clintons I would say fondly show Rep. Clyburn what they think of his shameful assertion and go about their business. If drawing a clear assertion between candidates means going negative so be it. I have eyes and ears. I have seen Obama's lying and smearing mailers and ads and the race-baiting of his supporters. Whom would I believe Bill Clinton or Clyburn's lying words? I have made my choice.
by tarheel74 on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 12:11:45 AM EST

Re: It's like a re-run of a bad b-movie (none / 0)

You have made your choice, as have millions of voters, who, have chosen Obama over hillary.
Oh and yes voters have ears and eyes and the majority tink hillary is a liar and un trust worthy.
by venician on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 12:32:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's like a re-run of a bad b-movie (none / 0)

yes the Republicans do and now the brainwashed creative class does as well. But not have drunk gallons of Obama kool-aid I can say I see a panderer when I see one and his name is Barack Obama. Let him run on his record and policies instead of sending his attack-dogs to race-bait before another election in a southern state with a big AA population.


by tarheel74 on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 12:41:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Love the smell of desperation in the morning (none / 0)

So now the creative class is brain washed?  Now you're just throwing shit against the wall to see what sticks. Problem is it's you that ends up smelling bad.


by venician on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 12:58:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Love the smell of desperation in the morning (none / 0)

nah I would feel bad if I had drunk all that kool-aid and found that my candidate had gone and shamelessly pandered to the Republicans and Conservatives in the worst way possible, throwing all progressive ideals under the bus to play politics while on the eve of the interview his campaign was furiously spinning it as an aggressive showdown.
BTW don't you feel embarrassed? Don't you feel had? Don't you feel let down now that Obama has played the "okie-doke" on you? Are you sure he is still progressive?  
by tarheel74 on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 01:03:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Love the smell of desperation in the morning (none / 0)

That's funny. Have you forgotten that it's the clintons who use triangulation to further their own personal careers. And let us not also forget that it was the clintons who made a sharp turn to the right and dismantled the well fair system, a system set up as a safety net for the poor and something the repugs wanted to abolish for years.
Are you still sure the clintons share the values of true Democrats?
by venician on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 10:16:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Love the smell of desperation in the morning (none / 0)

either you have selective memory or you are being intentionally dishonest. But for a history lesson let me reiterate there were 2 welfare bills, the first one was in the spirit of Reagan Republicans (yes the same Reagan whom Obama swears by) and that bill was vetoed by Bill Clinton. The next bill was drafted by both Republican majority and Democrats and was passed 74-24 in the senate. So to say that Democrats did not support the bill was false if anything they did not have the courage to stand against it:

http://www.lectlaw.com/files/leg21.htm


by tarheel74 on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 11:04:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's like a re-run of a bad b-movie (none / 0)

Considering that Bill Clinton is well known for his truthfulness, whether or not under oath or in talking in private to his wife or when speaking to the American people....oh...never mind...


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 12:37:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's like a re-run of a bad b-movie (none / 0)

And when Bill gets all red in the face and starts shaking his finger, oh well then, you know he's got to be telling the truth and all.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 12:39:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's like a re-run of a bad b-movie (none / 0)

No when Obama tells that he is for regualtion of industry and then goes on Fox News are runs hard away from it I believe he is the incarnation of truth. When he says that he barely had a relationship with Rezko but actually received nearly 250k from him I believe he is a truthteller. When he says that he does not take money from oil company but he is rolling in cash from oil execs I believe he is the messiah.....oh what the hell I can go on and on but what's the use? A craven politician will not run on his record or his policies but race-bait again before yet another Southern state with a big AA population...that's their campaign mantra.


by tarheel74 on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 12:45:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's like a re-run of a bad b-movie (none / 0)

I'll tell you what the biggest tell Bill Clinton has is: his words.  I keep remembering "Five times to my face he promised he wouldn't endorse."

That's a big-time tell.  I'm not even sure how that would even work.  >knock knock< "Hi, it's Bill again - look, I know you already promised four times to my face that you won't endorse Obama, but could you promise it to my face one more time?"


by Mostly on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 01:22:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (2.00 / 0)

This is why some whites are turning away from Obama,their not racist but can you imagine four years of having to worry about saying anything that could be perceived as racist.The language police will be all over the place.Any criticism even if legit will be deflected as your just a racist.I don't believe he will change his spots once he is president[I hope that wasn't racist]and he will govern using race as a weapon.    


by grab6 on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 12:17:53 AM EST

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (none / 0)

Yeah. Those black folks are soo-ooo--ooo sensitive. I mean, Obama's winning SC is just like that other black feller.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 12:36:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (none / 0)

Actually Obama has been increasing his white voters support. Here are the Ohio and PA numbers:

Obama's percent of the vote:
                  OH   PA
60 and older      28   38
White             34   38
White men         39   44
White women       31   34
Less than $50K    42   46
No college        40   38
College           51   49
Catholic          36   31
Protestant        36   53

Thanks for trying though.


by venician on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 12:54:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (none / 0)

he lost the white vote in every age group and outside Philly, Dauphin county and outside 6 counties he lost rest of the 67 counties. Nice spin but a loss of that magnitude when he outspent her by more than 3:1 is embarrassing.


by tarheel74 on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 01:07:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (2.00 / 1)

Who is "Axelrod"?  Is he or she running for the presidency or some other public office?

If not, then WHO CARES?


by baghdadjoe on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 12:28:58 AM EST

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (1.66 / 3)

Another content-free, self-important rant about nothing from alegre! Keep em' coming!


Samantha Powers was dead on- Hillary is a MONSTER. (5/23/08)
by Maize and Blue State on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 01:01:11 AM EST

grammatically incorrect title (2.00 / 3)

It should be "Hypocrisy, thy name is Axelrod".

Kind of like "Unjust hatred, thy name is Alegre".


McCain housing policy shaped by lobbyist.
by obsessed on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 01:36:11 AM EST

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (2.00 / 0)

Ya think SD's don't read the Washington Post?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con tent/article/2008/04/27/AR2008042702272. html?hpid=topnews


"If you want to end war and stuff, you gotta sing loud"...Arlo Guthrie
by nogo war on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 01:47:28 AM EST

OH NOES (2.00 / 1)


by SleepingWillow on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 05:49:42 AM EST

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (2.00 / 2)

With all due respect, I read through this entire diary and I have no clue how Axelrod's comments are hypocritical.


by Paranoid Humanoid on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 06:24:14 AM EST

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (2.00 / 1)

The Clintons are not racists: agreed

(That Bill overplayed his demographic juggling and offended AAs in SC doesn't make him an out and out racist)

Please agree that Obama isn't a racist either.

The nearest you can get to this ludicrous suggestion he played the race card (against who? his mixed race self?) is a discredited memo from a low ranking state campaigner.

Keep on banging on like this, trying the Rovian reverse projection, the more you reveal the fear and self loathing that seems to constitute the discussion of race by Hillary supporters on this site.


Moose Juice; debate without hate
by brit on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 07:08:03 AM EST

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (2.00 / 1)

I love how this diary actually does nothing to prove its title.


by rfahey22 on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 08:23:14 AM EST

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Axelrod (none / 0)

Clearly you missed the diarist's thoughtful and logically compelling rationale. Let me spell it out for you:

"Wow."  
"Hmmm..."
"Yeah - "
"HMMMMM????"

Leading up to the incontrovertible conclusion:
"David Axelrod is the biggest hypocrite going guys."  

QED, don't you know?


It is not because I cannot explain that you won't understand. It is because you won't understand that I cannot explain. - Elie Wiesel
by Sumo Vita on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 04:09:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hypocrite Thy Name is Alegre (2.00 / 1)

with another hypocritical smear attempt, each weaker than the last.

SHAME ON YOU!


It's time to restore balance and fairness to our economy,... It's time to stop giving tax cuts to corporations that ship jobs overseas... - Barack Obama
by Lefty Coaster on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 08:55:24 AM EST

Re: Hypocrite Thy Name is Alegre (none / 0)

Yea, its pretty disgusting.

I can't imagine the depression that will hit the egomaniacs better known as Reclist Wreckers once Hillary concedes.

As far as bloggers go, well were will they go.

This website will go back to being a normal liberal blog.


Unable to rec or rate

Read this: http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/5/15/1427 30/254

by GeorgeP922 on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 12:11:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Mark Penn (none / 0)

I suggest you look into Mark Penn's book "Micro trends"

It teaches the political strategist how to turn people against each other in order to gain a political goal.

I dont think Hill and Bill are racists,  I think they are more than happy to use race as a way to crush Barack Obama.

Just look at the hacks Ferraro and Rendell.

What would be saying if a REPUBLCIAN GOVENOR said:  

"Well. White People just vote elect a Black man in my state, thats why my opponent lost in the last primary here".

I never in my life heard any governor brag he ran a racist state.

THAT is interjecting Race into a campain.


Unable to rec or rate

Read this: http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/5/15/1427 30/254

by GeorgeP922 on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 12:09:42 PM EST

The next time thy jaw dropeth... (none / 0)

Monitor whether thy knee jerketh.
Before thy brain kicketh in.
It is not because I cannot explain that you won't understand. It is because you won't understand that I cannot explain. - Elie Wiesel
by Sumo Vita on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 03:54:56 PM EST


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