Updated: Black Vote Considered

In 2004 Bush won Ohio by roughly 120,000 votes over Kerry.  How did he do it?  General consensus is he upped evangelical turnout nationwide through ballot proposals - and Kerry's relatively poor fumbling on religious issues.  And, the GOP gamed the Ohio race. That is partly true, and I have an upcoming diary about religious voters in the 2008 election being the key swing voting block, but there was a bleep in the Ohio exit polling data which goes mostly unnoticed.  Generally people see a demographic group that breaks at a 90% level and simply write it off.  But elections are games of margins.  And in Ohio we saw an interesting margin develop:

National African-American Bush - 10% (-2 2000) Kerry – 89% (+2 2000)
Ohio African-Americans Bush - 17% (+8 2000) Kerry – 83% (-8 2000)
If you remember the Bush Campaign pushed the African American community pretty hard. Bush strategist attempted way to break the Democratic Stronghold through Gays and Abortion driven issues… they sent in Bob Johnson amongst others. But most of us just laughed off the futility. Yet, it turns out the over performance in the Black Community in Ohio is what created a large porting of the Gap. To a degree Bush’s emphasis on religious issues did push him over the top in Ohio. Many of us wondered last week about the NC GOP’s ad being disavowed by the national GOP. No the GOP did not grow a soul. They ran Bush’s 2004 election, and know how it was won. They also know that attacking Rev. Wright, straight out, is not popular in Black Communities. The RNC have enough problems with John McCain’s laughable encounters with Black People. McCain had even been actively campaigning for Black Votes. An interesting press-avail about the Civil Rights movement under the Edmund-Pettus occurred last week. A speech about Race in America with no Black People in the audience. I cannot find the clip of him “dancing” with some Black Ladies later that afternoon… so I’ll just post this classic that gets at the idea McCain, frankly, will doing pretty good if he can go six months without a Perot “You People” statement. Trouble is turns out Black folks have minds, as some in the media seem not to suggest. And, there is no guarantee of Black Folks “coming home” – a phrase straight out of slavery. Rasmussen has poll out, consistent with others, where the write-up states, “Among African-American voters, Obama dominates but Clinton attracts just 59% support.” To win Ohio, Pa, and several other states the Democratic nominee needs to increase Black Turnout and voting percentage from 2004. Perhaps the Black Vote ought not be taken for granted here. Btw. I’m troll rating any comment which discusses who did and who did not play the race card…I’m sick of it. Update Ok, this was just shown to me, with a new ending:

Display:


Re: Black Vote Considered (2.00 / 1)

If blacks want to hold the democratic party hostage even with a black VP then lets break it open and reform it with a different platform with voters who will vote for that platform.

Obama is where he is because of non democratic party member votes.

The day I am a member of a party and my vote gets over ruled by 1/10 of a GOP crossover  vote in Alaska...

Thats the day I leave this party.


by DTaylor on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 04:21:26 PM EST

Re: Black Vote Considered (2.00 / 1)

"If blacks want to hold the democratic party hostage "  What the hell?  Black People have as much as a right to vote as you.  Because they may or may not support a certain candidate does not mean the are holding the party hostage. I've never seen an Obama supporter say Women are holding the party hostage.  Yes, Obama is winning because Black People voted for him.  But, he has also won more states, delegates, and popular votes from a lot of people that were all kinds of colors - no matter how you count it.


Bring Back MyDD - Just say No to Rec'ing Candidate Diaries.
by CardBoard on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 04:25:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Black Vote Considered (none / 0)

If black people say we will only vote for a black candidate in the general thats a problem.

They have a right to vote that way for sure.

But the democratic party will have to change its coalition because a segment of that coalition is not reliable to vote for the candidate.

If white people said we will only vote for a white candidate it wouldn't be acceptable either.

The situation of Obama losing and a black VP being used as a peace offering is fair.  Ideally Obama being the VP so that he has a long term path to the white house.

But if the AA vote says we will vote against the democratic ticket every election causing it to lose unless the president or VP is black then thats a long term problem.

I personally see Obama as VP as the best way out of our problem as no one loses.  The losing party has to wait 8 years but the winning party would owe them support after that 8 years.

The Hillary coalition or even 25% of it if you don't think she can deliver 100% of it with the AA support would easily get Obama the nominee in 2016.

Hillary can make a way for Obama in 2016 by adopting him into the wing that doesn't plan to vote for him.

Otherwise every racial group excersises their right to vote for who they want and we split.


by DTaylor on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 04:37:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Black Vote Considered (none / 0)

I do not think it is an issue at all for Black People to vote for the Black Candidate.  I've heard on Black Radio a number of times talk of his inner city plan over Clinton's, and her past support of the 4 strikes legislation.  Black people are supporting Obama because Black people think he is better on issues that relate to them.  I'm sure you would admit Sen. Obama understand what it is like to be Black in America a hell of a lot better than Sen. Clinton.


Bring Back MyDD - Just say No to Rec'ing Candidate Diaries.
by CardBoard on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 04:43:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama vote on Displacements of People? (none / 0)

I'd be interested in seeing what Obama's positions are on issues that effect poor renters in cities.

Like for example, this Prop 98 coming up for a vote in June in California which could displace millions of people, renters- living in newly valuable central city real estate throughout the state by eliminating rent control for new tenants and decontrolling rents when a landlord was successful in forcing a tenant to move.

Its not just California or New Orleans post Katrina. People are being forced out of their homes and neighborhoods by the millions all over the country as gas prices drive city real estate values higher. Cities like Washington DC that have rent stabilization laws have been hit very hard, and the laws are being routinely ignored by landlords. Arson is also increasing, as buildings are burned out to clear them of tenants and make way for massive condo development.

This is hitting renters especially hard. Many urban residents don't even have drivers licenses or own cars so being forced out of cities could marginalize millions of people permanently. Many are also in jobs that depend on their living nearby, often, they are working for local governments or in unionized jobs, towards pensions. If they are forced to move and change jobs, they lose a lot more than many other people.

That Prop 98 position would be a real litmus test, I'd expect.

As a former close associate of a slumlord, I would be very apprehensive to have Obama as President.


public option=not affordable for middle. It cant cover all affordably, google adverse selection for why
by architek on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 07:56:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Well since Obama is winning the primary (none / 0)

let Hillary be his VP.


by Angry White Democrat on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 05:47:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

We will only vote for the candidate who . . . (none / 0)

has won the most votes and earned delegates.  If Hillary Clinton makes it to the ballot in November, on the strength of having won the most popular votes and the most earned delegates, then I will vote for Hillary Clinton.

However, if she somehow steals the nomination in spite of having won less popular votes and less earned delegates, then I will exercise my right to write in the name "Barack Obama".

That's not holding anyone "hostage".  It's voting, just like anyone else has the right to vote.

Now, Black Democrats are actually far more loyal to the Democratic Party than are white Democrats, because we are far less likely generally, to vote for Republicans than Democratic Party whites are.  However, our loyalty has its limits.  If we learn that the rules will be changed at the last minute to prevent a candidate, who happens to be Black, from winning the nomination, then that would infuriate us and it would be evident at the polls.  In fact, just the assertion by Clinton that it COULD happen is driving Black people to levels of anti-Democratic Party fury that I have never before seen in my lifetime.

If you think that white Democrats can form a coalition that doesn't include Blacks, I'm sure you're right.  But, your new coalition will have to include some policy changes in the Democratic Party plank, like opposition to all abortions, opposition to gay rights, and a free hand to the president to invade Iran.  You see, Black people consistently vote for the candidate who opposes those positions.  If we weren't with you, you'd have no choice but to rely on more conservative voters to form your coalition, and then you could forget about reproductive choice, gay rights, and anti-intervention politics.

Without the support of Black voters, you'd have to capitulate to conservative voters who don't believe in global warming and who want to turn the Alaska wildlife refuge into an oilfield.  


by Manic Lawyer on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 05:48:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Black Vote Considered (none / 0)

Yeah, Obama has won more caucus states...not primaries...


by Check077 on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 06:35:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Black Vote Considered (none / 0)

That's pretty rich coming from someone who says women won't vote for Obama if he is the nominee. One might even argue based on that attitude women are trying to hold the party hostage.


Proudly joining the legions of people and states that don't matter on May 20th.
by Obama Independent on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 04:47:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

DTaylor is not a Democrat (1.50 / 2)

No one is holding the party hostage. Just leave already.


by highgrade on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 06:40:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What's an easy way to a troll rating? (none / 0)

Tell someone to "LEAVE" because they express a view you disagree with.


by lombard on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 07:05:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hear hear (1.87 / 8)

I agree that no demographic should be taken for granted.  Yet people on both sides think that it is okay to attack a demographic like the youth or GLBT or African Americans or Latinos.  It is enough to cause a person to flame out.

Every vote matters in November whether it is black, brown yellow red white green purple or grey.

Every vote counts no matter if the caster is 24, 44, 64 or 84.

Every vote counts no matter if the caster is a Protestant, Catholic, Jewish, Muslim,, Atheist or any other kind of religion

Every vote counts!


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 04:22:37 PM EST

Re: Hear hear (2.00 / 1)

I am with you up to votes from people who are not in our party

I don't think the AA vote should be taken for granted.

I also don't think that the AA vote voting 92% for a candidate is tolerable in the long term

When its the first time I will over look it but if any group says the color of our candidate's skin has to match mine we are in trouble as all other groups will play the same game.

I support a Black VP if Obama doesn't win.  However that is also a one time thing if we let any group use their vote only for their group and then threaten to boycott if they don't get their way with their 25% of the vote its a recipe for disaster long term.

Or else we will be come a party where you have to be racially 25% black/white/asian/hispanic to win


by DTaylor on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 04:28:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Why... (none / 0)

should we close our doors to people who are independent.  If we get them to vote Democratic early they have a vested interest in voting Democratic in the fall.  A lot of republicans are disenfranchised with the way Bush led them, shouldn't we welcome them with open arms and build a greater majority.

In the fall the democratic party gets close to 90% of the African American vote, would you rather that be lower...

I don't think skin color has a huge influence on why the vast majority of a group votes the way it does, though I am not black so i can't make this judgment, I will listen to an African American's viewpoint on why they vote the way they do.

Bill Clinton ran and did really well in 1992 and 1996 with African Americans, Al Gore did well with African Americans as did John Kerry.


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 04:37:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

In theory I agree with you, but in practice (none / 0)

I'm not so sure.  The trouble is, you can't tell the motivations of a Republican or Independent in voting in the Democratic primary.  At least with a Democrat, you know the person is voting for whom the person thinks is the best candidate on at least some significant criteria.


by lombard on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 07:09:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I am well aware of operation chaos (none / 0)

and its ilk.

However I think the benefits of completely open primaries and caucuse outweigh the harm done by cross over voters.

Also what about in states like NC where there are a lot of democrats who vote for the republican on a federal level.


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 07:43:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

But the GE vote is the true vote (none / 0)

A person who is a registered Democrat is perfectly capable of voting Democrat in the general election unless the Democrats run a candidate that the voter feels is unacceptable or far less acceptable than the Republican alternative.  That's why Clinton won two elections handily - not because he won a large minority of Republicans - but because he won a large share of Democrats who may have voted Republican in other general elections.

On the other hand, a registered Republican is VERY UNLIKELY (probability less than 15%) to vote Democratic in the GE even if the voter finds the Democratic candidate reasonably acceptable.  

So, a Republican (and many right leaning Independents) are unlikely to vote for a Democratic candidate even if they voted in the Democratic primary.  


by lombard on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 08:31:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

hypocrite much? (2.00 / 2)

"I also don't think that the AA vote voting 92% for a candidate is tolerable in the long term"

Black people vote 92% for the DEMOCRATIC cnadidate all the time. have you EVER complained about that? have you said, "it's unacceptable for African Americans to suport the Dems 92% of the time"? of course not.

and since you're doing it now, because they aren't supporting YOUR candidate, that makes you an unapologetic hypocrite, a hypocrite who takes Black votes for granted.

i don't know if you started with these quasi-racist views of Black people as merely tools of white elites, or the hideous Clinton campaign has driven you to that position, but either way it is WAY out of step with the Democratic party.


the time to rise has been engaged.
by catchaz on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 04:51:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: hypocrite much? (2.00 / 1)

You beat me to my comment.  The problem that I am having is that all of the sudden it is a problem that blacks are voting for Obama. It wasn't a problem when we were voting for Bill or Gore or Kerry. I have to admit that this primary has brought out the ugly side of folks.


by cranberry on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 05:10:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What a ridiculously hateful comment! (none / 0)

"...the hideous Clinton campaign has driven you to that position, but either way it is WAY out of step with the Democratic party."

The Clinton campaign hasn't driven people that way in the slightest bit.  I know that notion is an essential part of the Obama propaganda but it simply isn't true.

And the Clinton campaign is hardly "WAY out of step" with the rank and file Democratic electorate.


by lombard on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 07:14:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

After 43 consecutive white POTUS's (none / 0)

After 43 consecutive white presidential and vice-presidential terms, I hardly think Blacks can be accused of being unwilling to support white candidates for the presidency.


by Manic Lawyer on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 05:57:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: After 43 consecutive white POTUS's (none / 0)

Thank you!! People act as if blacks are dumb and are only voting for barack because he's black. Hey, maybe we think he is qualified.


by cranberry on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 07:08:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: After 43 consecutive white POTUS's (none / 0)

After 43 consecutive male POTUSs, I hardly think females can be accused of being unwilling to support a male for the presidency.

Works both ways and both are immature way of thinking. It is simply holding others hostage by throwing tantrums that I wont vote for me if you dont give me what i want.

The 59% of rhe blacks who said they will still vote for Hillary are the mature ones. And I am sure those mature ones will prevail on many more before Nov. Everyone else proposing and suggesting black vote alienation if Hillary is the nominee, is a selfish individual with immature hatred in their mind.


by Sandeep on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 07:14:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: After 43 consecutive white POTUS's (none / 0)

And it goes the same way for females too. Any woman who says she will not vote for Obama if Hillary is not given the nomination is a fear mongerer and believes in pandering.

And any black person who says he or she will not vote for Hillary if Obama is not given the nomination is a fear mongerer and believes in pandering.

So stop being immature.


by Sandeep on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 07:18:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hear hear (2.00 / 3)

Thanks student... you see blatant crap all the time - Like the comment below yours which suggest Black Voters are "holding the party hostage" by the fact they may not vote for the nominee.

Or the several occasions I've heard people on the media begin a conversation with "Obama has a problem with White Women," and slowly the term "White" falls from their wording and it just becomes "Obama has a problem with women"


Bring Back MyDD - Just say No to Rec'ing Candidate Diaries.
by CardBoard on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 04:28:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hear hear (2.00 / 2)

haha - you just got trollrated by McCheesy for a comment that said "every vote counts" over and over


Bring Back MyDD - Just say No to Rec'ing Candidate Diaries.
by CardBoard on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 04:32:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What the hell is up with that? (2.00 / 1)

nt.


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 04:38:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Black Vote Considered (none / 0)

Cynthia McKinney should do quite well then.

She is ideally situated to take advantage of dissatisfied Democrats regardless of who ends up getting the nomination.

The net result - the Dems lose in Nov.


by johnnygunn on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 04:27:12 PM EST

Re: Black Vote Considered (none / 0)

That is a really good point


Bring Back MyDD - Just say No to Rec'ing Candidate Diaries.
by CardBoard on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 04:29:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Black Vote Considered (none / 0)

It's scary - because if McKinney even gets 2% - it's enough  to throw a half-dozen or more swing states into the GOP column.

I agree with your argument.  Losing a chunk of the African American vote will almost certainly deny the Dems Ohio and Florida and will likely switch Wisconsin and Pennsylvania over.

Doncha know that covert right-wing groups will help to get the Greens on every state ballot.  Plus that 2% isn't so far-fetched. In any given election cycle, independent left candidates get that much.  If the Democrats or Democratic-leaning folks represent about half of the electorate and both Obama and Clinton have about half of the Dems support - then if only 6% of one side's supporters votes Green, it gives McKinney that 2% total.

It is very much so possible.
I just hope Ron Paul runs as a Libertarian.


by johnnygunn on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 04:41:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

democrats will not win florida... (none / 0)

it's beyond some kind of perverse wishful thinking to argue that it's possible.  polls in florida, because they are so dependent on the dade-palm beach/hillsborough responses always overestimate democratic prospects at this point in the election cycle, only to be corrected as polling firms move from random responses to geographically diversity...


peace. love. equality. still waiting after 40 years...
by bored now on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 04:47:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: democrats will not win florida... (none / 0)

That's odd -

Because Clinton won Florida in 1996.
And Gore won Florida in 2000.

That suggests that the right candidate and the right campaign CAN win Florida.


by johnnygunn on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 04:51:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

it probably does seem odd to those... (none / 0)

who don't know florida.  there seems to be some kind of weird obsession with winning florida, yet i have explained over and over why this is not possible given how divided, demoralized and disorganized the democratic party in florida has been since 1995 and the popularity that charlie crist has that made it possible for mccain to be the nominee.  given that you are undoubtedly more interested in revisiting the past instead of understanding the present, that's probably all that need be said here...


peace. love. equality. still waiting after 40 years...
by bored now on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 09:21:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: it probably does seem odd to those... (none / 0)

What a nasty comment.
Your pettiness serves as a fine sauce for your views.
by johnnygunn on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 10:07:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

thank for Obama guys for this (1.60 / 5)

with their race card playing memos and smears against the Clintons, and the media who plays along to smear them. The Obama camp has made it so only they can win, or no one can win, along with the media.


"there is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured by what is right in America"-William Jefferson Clinton, forty-second President of the United States
by DiamondJay on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 04:29:41 PM EST

Re: thank for Obama guys for this (none / 0)

I'm trollrating your comment as I said I would do in the diary.  I will likewise trollrate comments which claim Clinton's people played the race card.


Bring Back MyDD - Just say No to Rec'ing Candidate Diaries.
by CardBoard on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 04:31:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Black Vote Considered (none / 0)

I don't think anyone should underestimate this voting group and should not take the group for granted. But, to suggest that if Obama is not nominated, the black vote will not come out for Clinton is really amazing, as this seems to be a direct blackmail or threat of some sorts. That is the indication I got from Clyburn and that is disappointing.


by American1989 on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 04:33:30 PM EST

Re: Black Vote Considered (none / 0)

It would be ill-founded to suggest it, but the polling data is supporting that is could occur.


Bring Back MyDD - Just say No to Rec'ing Candidate Diaries.
by CardBoard on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 04:34:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

for good cause... (2.00 / 2)

white democrats seem to think that it's ok to continually dismiss black voters.  the fact that most people believe government has very little impact on their daily lives makes their choice to sit out elections less risky.  we have to stop thinking about black voters as stupid (continuously willing to vote against their own interests), trapped (into voting for democrats) or irrelevant if we want to win the white house.  but that's a huge if...


peace. love. equality. still waiting after 40 years...
by bored now on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 04:40:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: for good cause... (none / 0)

if you think voting against the democratic party is against black interests as a whole then you need to do some more research.

Voting against the candidate who beat your first viable candidate on the other hand does make political sense.

However voting against Hillary if she gives the VP slot to Obama or other AA would hurt AA political power long term.

The best answer is Clinton/Obama ticket.

Even the losers in that ticket win something and Clinton can offer support in 2016 and like reagan's blessing was important to GOP the clinton blessing would be important to us after 32 years of Clinton prosperity and peace.

Obama could achieve the presidency in 2016  with a graceful move from frontrunner to VP if the convention doesn't go his way.


by DTaylor on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 04:45:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

i don't generally engage in mythological... (none / 0)

hypotheticals because i don't see the point.  it doesn't really matter what you (or i) perceive as in their best iterests because even if you could measure that, it's still for voters to decide.  so your comments are irrelevant to what i perceive can and will happen, even if you'd like for them to happen.  i'm willing to discuss possible outcomes that are realistic, but i steer clear of those that clearly aren't (even if you'd prefer them)...


peace. love. equality. still waiting after 40 years...
by bored now on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 04:50:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Why? (none / 0)

Sen. Obama is winning no matter how you cut it delegates, states, popular vote.  He performs better than Clinton in head-to-heads.


Bring Back MyDD - Just say No to Rec'ing Candidate Diaries.
by CardBoard on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 04:52:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Black Vote Considered (none / 0)

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/4/23/7522 0/2814#readmore

You forget that we, as a party, are poised to lose the Latino vote for the first time in our history to the Republicans in 2008. While the African American gap is disturbing, Obama is also destined to lose if he is unable to get a majority of Latino voters.


Hillary supporter for Barack Obama in 2008
by zcflint05 on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 04:34:09 PM EST

Re: Black Vote Considered (none / 0)

I agree that Obama does not perform as well with Latino voters in the primary as Clinton.  Yet I'm yet to see a national breakdown with McCain.  I do know that the War is still the top issue for a lot of latino voters... the war is being fought by a largely latino army, so McCain could have big problems on that front.


Bring Back MyDD - Just say No to Rec'ing Candidate Diaries.
by CardBoard on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 04:37:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Black Vote Considered (none / 0)

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/4/26/2144 3/2652

"GOP John McCain is poised to be the first GOP Presidential candidate to win the Latino vote in November. He is leading Obama 52%-43% for the 8 states polled. ( against Clinton, Clinton carried a whopping 76% of Latino voters vs. Mccain)

While the 10 state polling had GOP McCain beating Obama in November at 50%-43% ( Clinton carried 79% of Latino voters in these 10 state poll against McCain)"

Not good numbers. And with the current trend with Latinos towards the GOP, if we lose them in 08 we may lose them for good. People take the Latino bloc as a given--when it is now a swing bloc that could go either way (but probably for McCain) if Obama is the nominee. Let me also remind you that this bloc is poised to become larger than the AA bloc in 2008 in terms of voters.

If we lose Latino voting blocs, you san say goodbye to quite a few states for good, and put Calfornia in danger of going red.


Hillary supporter for Barack Obama in 2008
by zcflint05 on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 04:54:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Black Vote Considered (none / 0)

I think Colorado and NM are the only close states with sizable Latino communities.  Two states where Obama polls better than Clinton.  California is not at issue, it will be won by 20% it looks like.  McCain is really terrible on issues that matter to Latino voters.  Obama would need to campaign in their communities, (unless a lot of latino voters just won't vote for a black gut) I think he will gain a lot of traction.


Bring Back MyDD - Just say No to Rec'ing Candidate Diaries.
by CardBoard on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 04:59:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Black Vote Considered (none / 0)

The most recent GE polls have Obama only +7 on McCain in California, so it's not like it's a slam dunk blowout there. Let me also remind you that in states that were close like Ohio in 04, Florida in 00, or even some other states--that 3 or 4% of the Latino population could make a big difference when an election is decided by half a percentage point.

You're right--McCain is generally terrible on issues for all voters (not just Latinos--lol), but there is one issue where they like him: immigration. And that is priority number one for alot of older Latino voters because they may have family members who are here illegally and McCain may or may not be offering amnesty to them, or at least a guest worker program.


Hillary supporter for Barack Obama in 2008
by zcflint05 on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 05:06:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

That diary and someone's (none / 0)

comments there within are one reason I am on a rant about everyone mattering to win in Nov.  Someone said Latinos don't matter, well I say they do.  I have done canvassing for my state rep (back in rural MN) where the margin of the latino vote was absolutely critical to win the election.  The democratic party needs both wings in order to flap and I will stand up for both of them.


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 04:51:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

My bad (none / 0)

I thought you were citing latinfighter's diary which was very good.


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 05:38:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Wrong (none / 0)

Both Hillary and Obama win large majorities of the non-white vote against McCain. Obama actually does better than Hillary. He's not losing Latinos.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/134254?tid=re latedcl

Please put this fear-mongering to bed.


by Angry White Democrat on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 05:51:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

black voters have felt taken for granted for years (2.00 / 1)

and now it seems that some democrats are ready to write them off altogether.  "where else can they go?" is a popular expression among such dems.  well, we know where they can go -- they can sit home, and have shown that tendency in the last decade or so.  let's face it, black americans are the one group that really did not do well the last time a democrat was president.  sister soulja welfare reform, clinton's drug policies, etc all served to alienate black democrats wrt a democratic president.

republicans are willing to go after the black vote, but that seems like a long-term goal.  the weapon that black voters have is not to vote on abortion and gays (two areas where many agree with republicans) but to sit home.  we neglect them, they can neglect us.  it's almost rational.  it's not like white americans give much consideration to their plight, so...


peace. love. equality. still waiting after 40 years...
by bored now on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 04:34:26 PM EST

Re: black voters have felt taken for granted for y (1.00 / 1)

You are fanning this fire.

It fits your political needs that its Obama or McCain because this group or that group will stay home.

Can't you see that you already cost Obama the presidency with this talk?

Had Obama not threatened his supporters would sit it out we likely would have voted for him.

Unless a compromise like Clinton/Obama is worked out we will NEVER vote for him EVER.

And its all your doing and those who threatened like you.


by DTaylor on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 04:48:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

this is probably not a subject for discussion... (none / 0)

with a low info voter.  it's not like hillary has any chance of winning the nomination (legitimately) so it's a moot point.  and i don't care if you vote for barack.  this is america and that is your choice...


peace. love. equality. still waiting after 40 years...
by bored now on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 09:14:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: black voters have felt taken for granted for y (2.00 / 1)

It is also worth considering what it looks like if Clinton gets the nomination.  

Her own folks have said it would be on the convention floor.

Her own folks have said they are prepping for the second ballot.

Not matter how you cut it a group is going to feel slighted.  Rather it is Obama or Clinton supporters.  But, Obama's path is a lot easier - he finished out in either Indiana or gets enough Supers by June to hit 2025.  It is Clinton's path that would be a media circus through August and lead to all sorts of trouble on the convention floor.


Bring Back MyDD - Just say No to Rec'ing Candidate Diaries.
by CardBoard on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 04:48:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Black Vote Considered (none / 0)

I agree with Student Guy about every vote counting, but I'm also painfully aware that AAs and Obama supporters will lose the math war if they try to play it. You can present your math, and then I can present mine, which, when all the math is worked out shows Obama losing more actual female votes than Clinton loses actual AA votes. You can't win with a demo of 13% going against a demo of 51%. It just isn't going to happen.


Rules are not necessarily sacred, principles are. - Franklin Delano Roosevelt
by anna belle on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 04:36:29 PM EST

Re: Black Vote Considered (none / 0)

I think evangelical women are going to be this year's swing demographic in a lot of states.  I'm just presenting a problem here - chiefly for the RNC  - and a suggestion to why they condemned the ad.  And point out that we have lost election in the past due to Bush's inroads into the Black Vote.


Bring Back MyDD - Just say No to Rec'ing Candidate Diaries.
by CardBoard on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 04:40:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama's support among blacks (none / 0)

All of Hill's statements indicate that she doesn't begrudge for one second the support that Obama has received from African-Americans; she completely understands the sense of pride that the community has in Obama.  I'll also acknowledge that African-Americans are only voting for him because he's black.  He has several nuanced differences with Hill on issues that disproportionally impact African-Americans (e.g. retroactivity of the new sentencing laws for crack cocaine offenders) that make him a more appealing candidate than Hill.

Some of her supporters have said some ill-advised things about Obama's black support, but they aren't running for president.  The woman may be many things but her body of work, including a stint in law school as a member of the defense team for the Black Panthers, prove that she is not nor ever has been a racist.


by Blazers Edge on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 04:47:50 PM EST

Re: Obama's support among blacks (none / 0)

And she has a genuine feeling of respect for the support that the AA community has given to Bill and a choice of Obama for VP would not be some difficult and unnatural thing for her personally as many suggest.

Also I believe that she would be able to mend fences with Obama and have a 1 2 punch united to lead the country.

I feel that a Clinton win would owe Obama a much larger role as VP than is generally given to VP.

Partially as due for having so much support but also as a spring board to his turn giving him a presidential legacy of his own to run on.


by DTaylor on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 04:54:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's support among blacks (none / 0)

I agree with you that a Clinton/Obama ticket is a winning ticket.  Perhaps a backroom deal could be worked out in which she agrees to serve only one term; she would get the credit for catching and Bin Laden and getting some healthcare plan passed (anyone want to take a stab at how small the chances are that either of them would actually take the US out of NAFTA if the Canadians had no interest in renegotiating the deal?).  She wouldn't have to deal with all the nonsense that usually arises during someone's second term.  A twenty percent chance of this scenario occuring is better than zero I suppose.

Obama is a very good candidate; however, he'd be wise to consider how much support that Hill has generated this primary season when picking a vice president candidate if he's the nominee.  Obama/Clinton is not as strong as Clinton/Obama but it has a better chance of winning than Obama and anyone else.  Obama will need at least 53%, and possibly more, of support from women to win this election.


by Blazers Edge on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 05:03:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Actually you are wrong (2.00 / 1)

Obama would never pick Hillary as his running mate because it goes against hi whole message of change. Hillary has very high negatives  which. would drive out the base. John McCain has a serious problem with getting republicans to support him as was seen in Pennsyvlania. Ron Paul got almost 20% of the vote. Furthermore, RP supporters shut down the GOP convention in Nevada.

Why energize the GOP when we don't have to. Plus,Hillary doesn't bring anything to the ticket which couldn't be made up with someone who has more experience than her and isn't hated by more than half the country


by cranberry on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 05:22:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Actually you are wrong (none / 0)

Unfortunatley, this is what you don't understand--Hillary's supporters will desert to McCain at a rate of 30% if she does not win the primary. I imagine that could be staved massively by putting her on the ticket, and would also help solve some of Barack's "experince" questions. Your Hillary hate and the whole "get the Clintons" out rhetoric will cause Obama to lose--BIG time, especally if even half of those 30% desert.


Hillary supporter for Barack Obama in 2008
by zcflint05 on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 06:58:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

we understand that... (1.00 / 1)

and accept it.  there is no doubt that a significant number of hillary's supporters are closer to mccain's positions that barack's, and democrats will have to compensate for this inevitable loss.  it's not like doing so is impossible...


peace. love. equality. still waiting after 40 years...
by bored now on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 09:23:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's support among blacks (none / 0)

I agree with you on Clinton


Bring Back MyDD - Just say No to Rec'ing Candidate Diaries.
by CardBoard on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 04:54:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Black Vote Considered (none / 0)

The black vote is part of the reason why i think if Hillary is the nominee she has to put Obama on the ticket.


by liberalj on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 04:55:34 PM EST

Re: Updated: Black Vote Considered (none / 0)

This is a stupid and unhelpful diary that plays into Camp Obama's hands. Obama is trying to inject race into the NC race in order to maximize his vote among african americans.  However, most african americans don't hate the Clintons.  They simply like Barack more and have a great deal of pride in the fact that he has a legitimate shot to be President.  What that means is that if Hillary wins the nomination and Obama concedes the race to her, the win will be deemed legitimate and most african american voters will support her.  She will likely offer him the VP job and he will take it for the good of the party and that dream ticket will be the GOP's worst nightmare.


by khyber900 on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 08:31:49 PM EST

I think many black people probably think Obama (none / 0)

is just being right-wing to get elected.. that his real positions are more populist.. but I personally don't think they are right. I don't think he will be a Clarence Thomas-like figure, but as President, he doesn't have to be to still do a lot of damage.

I just hope and pray I'm wrong, but Ive often been right on these hunches in the past. I am terrified of what might happen if he gets elected and turns out to be an enemy of working people.

On healthcare, this is extremely important.

The differences between him and HRC are huge and the costs people can end up spending are far more than people can afford. The media is trying to prtend there isn't much difference between the two but the differences are huge. The will to pass universal healthcare IS there.. why is Obama telling us NO - and - leaving out so many people- the sickest 20% of us - We - will NOT be helped much by Obama's plan.


public option=not affordable for middle. It cant cover all affordably, google adverse selection for why
by architek on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 09:03:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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