by Student Guy, Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 12:34:07 PM EST
Tags: demographics, writing off the vote (all tags)
Amen.
United we stand; divided, we fall. We are all important and there's no use in bashing any demographic simply because they support another candidate.
Kudos to you, sir.
Yet some here (on both sides) want to slice and dice us up into a million different camps.
Well, it works to their benefit to do so; without it, they lose a prime reasoning (however contrived) for their candidate's chances.
That was my line a month or so ago.
Of course, Obama will have to spend extra time in the hispanic communities to win them over. I have no doubt once Hillary is out, they will be receptive to the Democratic message.
I'm a low income voter, and he would go a long way with me if he went for a complete universal health care plan, not just half a plan, complete with mandates so EVERYONE is included.
That is my major beef with his candidacy.
Well, if he would be more pro-science it would help also.
I have a decent background in science (biology BA and I am a med student) and this is a key area for me.
He wants to cut NASAs budget and put the money into education (why not cut in some other area for that?), and Clinton was the first to support refunding/upping funding for basic science. Since she was the first, it seems to me that she is more interested in actually doing it and knows the need for it. I think, but am not sure, that she is far more interested in funding the NIH more too.
He's seems to be less definite about making sure that abortion and all reproductive services are made more available than she is. That, to me, is about science.
His health care plan isn't universal, which to me is all about science. We can get more done when it comes to researching diseases if we have universal health care, because more studies can be done on the entire population to find the best treatments.
Keep in mind that Obama will be giving the American viewing public a seat at the table during the healthcare negotiations in congress. Just recently I heard him spell out what he means by that...he expects people to contact their Senators and Reps with suggestions/comments as the process progresses.
So if you want mandates all you have to do is ask for them.
I have been, by supporting Clinton. If Obama expands his health care plan to include mandates, then I will support him too on health care. He needs to start with universal health care, or we will never get it because there are so many vested interests against it.
Oh, and what about NASA? That is near and dear to my heart. I was alive when they first walked on the Moon, and with other things they did, so really don't want their budget cut any more. We NEED the vision and spin-offs to help our economy and culture. Look at things like the Hubble Telescope and how important that has been to our understanding of where we are in the Universe, for instance.
Solar panels are a direct result of the NASA programs. THEY developed them first, along with so many other things that we use now.
I think the media/pollsters feed this as well- I was reading some poll breakdowns and they had stats on "bowlers" "hunters" etc-talk about a 'silly season'-LOL
Thank you for this diary SG.
Mady wrote a diary a couple weeks ago wondering why young women weren't taken seriously in politics.
If our votes aren't taken seriously, how the hell can we be taken seriously?
Good diary SG. I didn't respond to your poll, but only out of principle - I don't respond to polls that are actually just witty attempts to make a point. :)
By way of constructive criticism, I think you conflate some things that are actually seperate.
I would certainly acuse some Obama supporters posting here of drinking Kool-aid - I daresay most of the ones that post here could hear that from me at some point.
But that is different from accusing all people who support Obama from drinking Kool-aid. And, even if I did want to argue for that, it seems entirely unrelated to saying "youth vote" drinks Kool-aid.
I don't see how you connected those dots.
(oops I said who the front pager was) that used the kool aid insult. I find that highly offensive and a much better way to say the same thing (but without the cult reference) is something a kin to that you don't buy the hype.
I saw that in Jerome's post as he said implied that to be an Obama supporter you must have drunk kool-aid. Cult references aren't cool.
Can you see what gives people that impression, though?
Barack himself constantly refers to his following as a movement, has made plenty of (tongue-in-cheek) comparisons between voting for him and enlightenment, and has (in a much more serious way) stated directly, and reinforced through his surrogates, that only by voting for him can we atone for our original sin. Oprah, perhaps his most famous endorsement, described her reasons thusly: "I do believe he is THE ONE." (cue fancy Matrix orchestral score) How many superdelegates justify their endorsement of him with something utterly vague like "He's special" or "I believe he can bring us together."
Huh? Look I don't expect or even desire spiritual enlightenment from the government. I want it to keep me safe, follow the law, provide an environment in which those who work hard can achieve success, and otherwise I want it to stay the hell away from me.
So, when some of us say things like, "Hey, guys? Universal healthcare is important", and get slapped in the face with this uninformed nonsense about mandates being scary and we have to turn our backs on healthcare because "the one" said so, yes we get frustrated with what we see. This goes beyond the disagreements between moderates and the left-leaning, because in this case you have people telling you things you know they wouldn't have said a year ago. (see the numerous older diaries of Kos slamming Obama)
And, truth be told, if all I saw were a bunch of people just super hopeful and excited about the world and convinced that Barack was the second-coming, I would be willing to get behind that (and in fact I was, at one point). But that isn't what I see. I can count the number of times an Obama supporter has said something positive about his policies, positions or plans on one hand. 99% of what I hear is just Clinton-bashing - the ultimate victory of the "vast, right-wing conspiracy", achieved ironically by a Democrat.
So, I understand that it is demeaning to thoughtful individuals such as yourself, but I also understand why so many have pointed out the Messianic nature of his campaign. This probably should have been expanded into its own diary but oh well.
I can see that very easily it was one of the things that drove me to Edwards once the field was solidified to 3 (I was up in the air between Edwards/Richardson/Biden originally)., but the kool-aid reference is very uncool.
You do know the reference of it beign a suicide cult right. Using it really demeans the level of debate, you can be a lot more polite by saying you don't buy the hype.
Civility is one of the things I was trying to get at with this diary.
Actually for many people it is a reference to drinking Koolaid laced with LCD and having a bad trip. I was never even aware of the cult you have in mind until I googled to check your reference. I think at this point "kool aid" has become part of the vanacular, and people have neither of these things in mind most of the time.
I could refer to them as apparachik, if you prefer. But then someone would say that I am a "Rovian" non-Democrat for implying that Barack is a communist.
I didn't even know about the LCD reference, it is funny how people have completely different references (and thus connotations to the same comment).
Thanks for the clarification and I will attempt to see future kool-aid comments as part of a wider lens.
Please do not infer from the above explanation that I have indulged in LCD-laced-Koolaid. :)
as long as you won't infer that I am part of a suicide cult for my knowledge of that reference :)
There are supporters of each who are drinking their candidate's kool-aid. Not all Clinton supporters understand all her policy positions, not all Obama supporters understand his.
But it's strange for the Hillary's activists, who do understand her positions, to try to say Obama's activists who likewise understand his, kool-aid drinkers. All of us political junkies are not the ones who blindly follow a candidate without knowing where they stand. We're the ones who parse their positions down to the last comma.
That said, I recommend kool-aid for all of us...make mine raspberry! Kool-aid and popcorn was the big treat on Saturday nights when I was a young single mom.
too, I liked Strawberry/Lemonade mixes (we'd make a gallon at a time).
however it seems the connotation here is entirely negative and shouldn't be used that way.
I confess to having written a comment on MyDD that was critical of young voters, based on my fear that once all the fun of beating the terrible Clintons in the primary is over, they will go back to whatever they were doing before and leave the boring scut work of a political campaign to us old farts. I still worry about that. I was a young voter once myself, so I know that pitched battles are exciting, while long sieges are not. Nevertheless, I do not view the "youth vote" as unimportant. I can't tell you how much I would love to welcome a new generation of Democratic activists to the fold. If an Obama candidacy floats your boat, and you get him nominated, you will have my congratulations. If you hang around to work for him AND for all the down-ticket Democrats in the GE - and especially if you're still around in 2010 and 2012- you will also have my gratitude and my profound apologies for doubting your commitment. We DO need you. Just don't forget that you need us, too. I have read more than a few posts on MyDD and, God knows, on the Great Orange Satan, saying that Obama doesn't need the votes of my generation. What a bunch of BS! Democrats can't win without us, anymore than we can win without you. I know you didn't invent youthful arrogance - it was, after all, my generation that came up with the classic "Never trust anyone over 30" nonsense. I think I owe my parents' generation an apology. I'd be truly pleased to owe one to your generation, too. Truce, anyone?
BTW I have been working to get democrats elected since I was 16 (my local state rep and state sen), and dropped plenty of Gore lit as well. At college I worked my butt off to try to replace the horrible blind man rep (Torrey Westrom) with a democrat. Our state senator (Dallas Sams, RIP) in his last race insulted the student vote and it hurt him. In 2004 I covered a lot of Morris with Kerry lit. I am here to stay in the democratic party (unless they become the party of conservatives, of which I will never be)
My parents might be your age (the are in their mid and late fifties). I value and respect my parents very deeply and why should I not do that to everyone of that age who is reasonable. I know that in the races I canvassed for that were Democratic wins that every vote mattered, not just the demographics I highlighted but everyone. In every race where a democrat lost that in inroads had been made in any demographic it would have been a tight race.
I think that whoever gets the nomination needs to reach out to all demographics. Someone's sig here is that the two wings of the democratic party must flap together and they must. I will not take anyone's vote for granted in the fall, but I similarly don't want to hear about how people are going to vote for McCain based on the issues.
Thanks, SG. I'll be 64 in July. My 3 kids are all older than you are. Two of them are for Obama and one is for Hillary. We seem to be able to have civil political discussions, and we all agree that either Obama or Clinton would be light years better than McCain. Robert Heinlein once wrote, "Politics is the only game in town for adults - everything else is for children." So, that should make us all adults around here. IMHO, those folks who threaten to take their marbles and go home if they don't get the candidate they want (and that goes for Obama folks who say they wouldn't support Hillary as well as vice versa) are acting worse than children.
I hope medical school is going well for you. I was elected to the North Dakota legislature in my senior year in law school, so I know how politics can interfere with one's studies!
but you sond like someone who would be a valuable source of wisdom and advice. Where in ND were you elected (was it Fargo area?). I can have civil discussions with my mother who supporters Sen. Clinton.
medical school is going fine. The first 2 years are pass/fail so that means that I am in no trouble of failing. I know I could be doing a lot better based on my potential, but I am learning the material.
I was elected from Grand Forks (that's where the law school is). I was elected twice and then got gerrymandered out of my district and was defeated by the Republican House majority leader. I chaired the House Democratic Caucus during the session that North Dakota ratified the Equal Rights Amendment. That was sure one of the high points of my political life! I've lived in Kansas for a long time, but I do miss North Dakota now and then (not the weather, just the people).
I don't know about "wisdom and advice" - my kids say I'm a never-ending fount of opinions!
Yup, all the demographics are important. I'm also sick of the stereotyping. Hillary doesn't just win old people and women. Obama doesn't just win young people and African Americans. I actually had someone call me a typical white trash, racist Hillary supporter the other day. Very uncool.
By the way, you're almost exactly my age. I'll be 24 in July.
someone really called you that, I find that sad. Nice reinforcement of what I was saying.
that most agreed was total trash to begin with. I was so upset I stayed off the internet for a whole day...that's like forever for me.
I think the freepers are out in full force as I'm seeing more and more of this disgusting divisive stuff on all the blogs. It's shouted down by regular posters but you know freepers travel in packs and they reinforce each other.
One of the reasons I hang out in the blogs is because we're a family...a gigantic Democratic family. Sure we squabble and bicker sometimes but we know where our bread is buttered in the end.
The sad thing is, I really don't think that person was a freeper at all (though there are definitely a few hanging around here). She's an African American who really does think all white people are racist. She made several comments of that nature that day. At first it made me angry, but then I just felt depressed. I wondered, how many African Americans that I work and interact and joke with every day look at me and on some level register, "Racist"? It's a horrible thought. It's one of the reasons the Wright stuff depressed me rather than angered me. It isn't as if I was blind to and ignorant of the justifiable anger and resentment in the AA community, but I don't think I fully realized.
Anyway, I hope the party pulls together soon. The bickering is driving me up the wall.
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