Hit Man Olbermann: "Take Her Into a Room..."

by TexasDarlin, Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:30:11 PM EST

Imagine a prominent television newscaster saying this on air:

"....someone who can take Obama and Clinton out behind the shed, and only she comes out."

Just imagine.

In case you missed it, Keith Olbermann on Countdown said this Wednesday:

"....somebody who can take her (Clinton) into a room, and only he comes out."

Does Keith secretly want to eliminate all strong women, or just those who threaten to beat a man for the Presidency?

Take a look...

This is serious. It's a threat. Olbermann is implying that "someone" should physically remove Hillary Clinton.  Take her out.  Get rid of her.

Where is the uproar, the outrage, the demands for Olbermann's resignation?  We know that such comments would be unacceptable if they were aimed at Obama.

Clinton needs to be removed, says Olbermann, because of the "negativity, for which she is mostly responsible" in the Democratic race, quoting The New York Times editorial "The Low Road to Victory."

But the Times' Paul Krugman corrected the record today, and strongly rejected the Wednesday editorial in his piece "Self Inflicted Confusion:"

According to many Obama supporters, it's all Hillary's fault. If she hadn't launched all those vile, negative attacks on their hero -- if she had just gone away -- his aura would be intact, and his mission of unifying America still on track.

But how negative has the Clinton campaign been, really? Yes, it ran an ad that included Osama bin Laden in a montage of crisis images that also included the Great Depression and Hurricane Katrina. To listen to some pundits, you'd think that ad was practically the same as the famous G.O.P. ad accusing Max Cleland of being weak on national security.

It wasn't. The attacks from the Clinton campaign have been badminton compared with the hardball Republicans will play this fall. If the relatively mild rough and tumble of the Democratic fight has been enough to knock Mr. Obama off his pedestal, what hope did he ever have of staying on it through the general election?

Most rational people agree that both campaigns have attacked each other. Certainly Obama's campaign has not been innocent. It's called politics; this is a rough race for the most important job in the world.

Now, Obama's whining is having such an impact on his media pals that they are calling for Clinton to be taken "into a room?"

It's criminal to suggest that Clinton should somehow be restrained because Obama seems to have suffered a setback in this heated contest.  As Krugman says, if Obama can't survive the relatively tame primary battle, he'll be useless in the general election.

Olbermann should be fired for implying that it would be appropriate to harm a presidential candidate.

Outrageous.

(Cross posted at texasdarlin.wordpress.com. Also see SusanUnPC's post on this topic at No Quarter.)




Tags: obama, clinton, olbermann, countdown, threats, assasination, president, misogyny, sexism, krugman (all tags)

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Re: Hit Man Olbermann: (1.53 / 13)

You left out the snark tag.  



Lost rate and rec for issuing a '1' to a trollish comment. The troll, not so much.

by map on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:32:42 PM EST

Re: Hit Man Olbermann: (2.00 / 2)

no no there is like 4 of these diaries now, I I am starting to think they are serious!


Congratulations to Barack Obama, the presumptive Presumptive Democratic Nominee
by TruthMatters on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:33:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

As serious as you lot were (1.88 / 9)

about blaming ABC for Obama's inability to take questions he will have to face.


by linc on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:34:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Is this really an issue you and TexasDarling want (2.00 / 5)

.... to hang your hat on?  My guess is that deep in side you both understand the concept of metaphor, but are running out of diary topics.


by dystopianfuturetoday on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:51:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

TexasDarling (2.00 / 5)

this isn't about Obama, it's about hate speech and the consequences of hate speech.  I can't understand why everyone isn't as upset as TD, and me, and any woman who watched it or heard about it. Most hate crimes in the US are against women, women are far more likely to be victims of violence, we're weaker, for one thing, easier to hurt. Keith has fans and it only takes one to decide to do what he thinks Keith wants, to take out Hillary.  This doesn't help Obama, and it isn't about Obama, it's about women and violence and hate speech that has real consequences for real women.  She may end up winning because of the hate that's been directed at her, it's galvanized women.  Keith needs to be fired.  It's not okay to incite hate against someone you dislike any more than against anyone.  I'm sick of this mean-spirited name calling character bashing, and i'm getting scared. Let's all get behind this?  


by anna shane on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 07:21:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It's a metaphor. (2.00 / 1)

It's hard for me to imagine that you truly believe KO wants HRC to be murdered.  This is classic 'concern troll' territory.  If you object to violent metaphors, then prepare for a bumpy ride, because, depending on perspective, Obama, McCain and Hillary will all be crushed, destroyed, obliterated, smacked down, and beaten at various points throughout the rest of campaign.  

Come November, the Democratic candidate will take John McCain into a room, and only one of them will come out.  Does that offend you too?


by dystopianfuturetoday on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 08:31:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

yes, (2.00 / 1)

McCain can come out and live the rest of his life. He doesn't need to be bumped off.  It would offend me, yes, but as a man he isn't in the same danger, and rev'ing up girl hate puts the rest of us in greater danger and it's already dangerous enough. I'm surprised you can't see it. I think it's because of your support for Obama, but it does not help him to win with the assistance of hate speech.  It's always wrong.  


by anna shane on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 08:38:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: yes, (none / 0)

First off, I can understand some of the sensitivity to the words.  I think that sensitivity comes much more from frustration over Hillary potentially being forced out of the election than any real anger over sexism, but I could be wrong.  It was a poorly worded statement but it was not a reference to domestic abuse.  It WAS a reference to some kind of violence, mafia-style, I think.  Or perhaps a reference to cheesy kung-fu movies and video games: "Two enter.  One leaves."  It is a dumb statement for Olbermann to make because it definitely references violence (though not specifically violence against women).  

And if you had just said the above, I would agree with you.  But you lost me when you said "it only takes one to decide to do what he thinks Keith wants, to take out Hillary."  Do you really believe an Olbermann fan is going to say "Ohhhh, he wants us to kill Hillary!"?  Come on.  

This is a more reasonable source of outrage than fingergate, so at least you are moving in the right direction.  Again, if you'd really concentrate on the reference to some kind of vague violence and didn't jump to "Oh, he's talking about killing Hillary," you'd get more respect.


by ProgressiveDL on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 11:47:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

try out empathy? (2.00 / 1)

There are sensitivity training exercises that men do to feel what it's like to be female.  A guy my height and weight is 30% stronger than me, and most men are much bigger than most women, so they're that much stronger. Most violent crimes are committed by men, by far.  Keith has many fans, he can't know all of them.  I'd suggest you try them out, one is to lie on the ground and have some guy stand over you, see if you feel fear?  One mistake men often make is that they see themselves as examples and don't think of the violent guys they maybe even know. If you can't understand the fear of women, when we're walking at night, even in our own neighborhoods, and some strange fellow approaches us or some car slows down, you won't be able to understand my reaction to Keith's threat.  It's already a dangerous world, we don't need more hate speech to get more fellows excited.  Because you wouldn't take out Hillary or some girl that you think is unfairly competing against a more deserving man, that does not mean no one would.  The point is that there are real reactions to hate speech that cannot be predicted. The right thing to do is to call out all hate speech. It isn't about the candidates, has nothing to do with either of them, it's about KO calling for a back room solution of force. It's just wrong. Wrong under any circumstance.  There is no justification for hate speech, none.    


by anna shane on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 01:16:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's a metaphor. (2.00 / 1)

It's hard for me to believe how increasingly ignorant and biased the Obama folks have become.

Any metaphor used against Senator Obama suggesting violence of any sort would AND SHOULD be challenged and unacceptable considering the history of violence against African Americans.  The same is true of women.  The problem is that so many Obama folks do not believe sexism exists, do not believe violence against women is that bad, and do not believe that "words matter."  

So what's the deal.  Do words ONLY matter when there is perceived racism?  I believe that is what is happening with the Obama folks.  You only see one side and that is dangerous.


by Jjc2008 on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 10:47:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: TexasDarling (2.00 / 2)

Yeah, what Olbermann did is called terroristic threatening. It's a crime.


by K1966 on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 08:46:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: TexasDarling (none / 0)

Incorrect.  He never threatened Hillary, he said "Somebody who can take her into a room and only he comes out" as a clarification of Fineman's point.  And Fineman never threatened Hillary either.  He said "it's going to take some adults or someone in this party to step in and stop this thing."  That may or may not be a correct statement, but it certainly isn't a threat.

And as far as free speech goes, if you are trying to incite people to violence (which neither of them is doing here), there has to be a reasonable chance of someone following through on your incitements for it to be illegal.  These statements don't qualify on any of the three counts (threats, incitements, or reasonable chance that someone will listen to this and then go kill Hillary).


by ProgressiveDL on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 11:52:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: TexasDarling (2.00 / 1)

Think Henry the Eighth, was he threatening anyone when he ask, who can rid me of this meddlesome priest?  That's what Keith said, someone (who) should go into a room with her and come out alone?  Who could this somebody be would would greatly please KO?  Not you, but there may be someone who sees things literally, and thinks he's looking for a volunteer?  There could be real consequences. And the other part, he can speak this way about one woman, but what about the rest of us, he's made that kind of speech 'cool?'  And so it can 'spread?'  You are thinking inside the box, go outside and look around.  


by anna shane on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 02:42:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: TexasDarling (2.00 / 2)

Well said, Anna.  Even if KO did not literally intend harm, that's the message he carelessly sent.  For that, he should be canned.  Imagine if something similar were said by Charlie Gibson about Obama....imagine the outrage.


TexasDarlin blog
by TexasDarlin on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 10:47:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

And as serious as Hillary's supporters (2.00 / 1)

Were about "the politics of the pile on" and her complaint that she always seemed to get the first question in the debates.

But that was different because that was Hillary.

Otherwise, Olbermann et. al. need to chill out.


Support Regina Thomas, GA-12
by Drew on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:02:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You left out your (1.83 / 6)

I'm a hypocrite tagline, what gives?


by linc on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:33:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: YOU THINK THIS COMMENT WAS FUNNY? (1.87 / 8)

No, I don't think his comment was funny. He was expressing what is becomming conventional wisdom, that it's time for a party elder to let Clinton know she needs to drop out.  Her chances of winning did decline after she failed to win PA by a large enough margin after all.

Do you think he was literally calling for someone to physically harm Clinton?



Lost rate and rec for issuing a '1' to a trollish comment. The troll, not so much.

by map on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:42:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Grendel quotes the bard, but doesn't get metaphor? (2.00 / 1)

He doth protest too much.


by dystopianfuturetoday on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:48:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

nope, he was making a reference (1.90 / 11)

to beating up a woman to teach her her place.
She won PA by plenty of points and she will stay in the race.  It is up to her and the voters, not some strong arm party boyz.  She's not dropping out, and lame references to violence to make her do so are sexist even if the person saying it is clueless.
For Obama it now becomes: Faith, hope and CHANGE! And the greatest of these is Change!
by TeresaInPa on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:37:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: nope, he was making a reference (2.00 / 1)

You're the only one with lame references to violence.


by The Distillery on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 04:10:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: nope, he was making a reference (2.00 / 4)

In spite of the fact that I'll be tarred and feathered, he was not at all referring to beating up a woman to teach her her place. I mean, let's be honest about this. You can't take a look at the whole video and come up with the conclusion that this was about anything else than a party elder -- ALL OF WHOM ARE CURRENTLY MALE EXCEPT FOR PELOSI BUT HILLARY WOULD NEVER LISTEN TO HER -- to quietly take her aside and let her know that she's run a fine race but it's time to exit.

This is nothing like David Schuster's pimping out comment, and I'm not demeaning women at all, but to keep arguing that Olbermann was advocating violence is just not supported by this video.


"If we can't live together... we're going to die alone."
by VAAlex on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 04:14:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: nope, he was making a reference (none / 0)

Thank you VAAlex.  I know we disagree sometimes, but you're at least level-headed.  Usually!  :)


by The Distillery on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 04:29:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: nope, he was making a reference (2.00 / 2)

I dont think it was sexist, but it was moronic and ironic, too, coming from someone who's bemoaning the negativity and the tone of this campaign.


by Mayor McCheese on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 04:39:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: nope, he was making a reference (2.00 / 1)

Leaving aside the fact that you're overreaching big time to imply this is about "beating a woman to teach her her place," how in the world are references to violence sexist when Hillary herself wants to be portrayed as a fighter?  Guess she's the biggest sexist of all!


Donate to Obama, Today!
by freedom78 on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 04:21:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Uh, I'm going to step slowly away... (2.00 / 1)

The Clinton side of my party is clearly unhinged.

When you guys are done with the faux outrage, misplaced rhetoric and attacks on the liberal establishment, let me know. If you'd put half of that emotion into attack our common enemies, we might actually coalesce as a party.

When did the dittoheads commit to the hostile takeover of MyDD? I totally missed it.


by bookish on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 04:56:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

After Obama's humiliating loss in Pennsylvania, (2.00 / 4)

there a little sensitive these days.  Be gentle with them.


Another Hillary Supporter for Obama!
by Beltway Dem on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:00:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: After Obama's humiliating loss in Pennsylvania (2.00 / 3)

Hey, whatever. I thought I remembered Clinton supporters say that it would be a blowout after Wright and the bitter remarks, but she didn't even break double digits.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:05:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

So humiliating. (2.00 / 2)

The PA loss that was so humiliating that he's more likely to win now than he was before the vote took place?

I can see why you folks have a problem with Olbermann.  He requires a certain level of viewer comprehension that some apparently don't have.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:25:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So humiliating. (none / 0)

Yeah, it takes so much to comprehend a ESPN jock wanna be.


by Mayor McCheese on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 04:40:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: After Obama's humiliating loss in Pennsylvania (2.00 / 2)

I am not humiliated, I was surprised that she did not win by a bigger margin, heck she grew up there and it is so to speak her favorable demographics.  Lets see her do it in NC and IN and then I will be impressed.


by netgui68 on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:53:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: After Obama's humiliating loss in Pennsylvania (none / 0)

It's they're, not there.  You have no verb in your sentence.  But maybe I'm elitist for knowing that.


by The Distillery on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 04:12:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

And this piece of shit is on the rec list. (1.12 / 8)

Recced by the same bunch of HillaryIs44 sheep who have been commandeering the rec list on e-mail command for some time.


Ignorance is weakness. Get strong.
by tbetz on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:39:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hi, TeresaInPa. (2.00 / 1)

Upset that I'm revealing your secrets?


Ignorance is weakness. Get strong.
by tbetz on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:44:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hit Man Olbermann: (none / 0)

What is wrong with everyone over here?


by Chili Dogg on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 04:13:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

People like him think everyday Americans are some (1.80 / 5)

kind of weight around their necks, what with our remembering the social contract and the fact that America was supposed to work for all of us and not just idiots like him.


Universal healthcare IS a Democratic value
It's been defeated
Obama has the best $PIN that money can buy.
by architek on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:33:48 PM EST

Ooh! (2.00 / 1)

Hold on one sec.

cues up Battle Hymn of the Republic

OK... continue.


If you're being chased by an angry bull and then you notice you're also being chased by a swarm of bees, it doesn't really change things. Just keep on running.
by vcalzone on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:55:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ooh! (none / 0)

thats hilarious.


by quixote27 on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 04:45:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ooh! (none / 0)

I trust you are wearing your flag pin?  :-)


by ProgressiveDL on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 11:56:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hit Man Olbermann: "Take Her (2.00 / 9)

We should all be boycotting any media that advocates "taking Hillary into a room" or any such outrageous threat. Boycotting, calling, writing letters and emails demanding KO's dismissal, demonstrating in front of their offices, and protesting this kind of unacceptable discourse on television.


by 07rescue on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:34:57 PM EST

Re: Hit Man Olbermann: "Take Her (2.00 / 3)

I see the same kind of crap, and worse, posted on here every day. Perhaps we should ban MyDD as well?


by zep93 on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:30:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Good luck. (2.00 / 1)

Last time there was a concerted effort to dislodge him, he signed the petition himself, on air, to show how ridiculous it was.

And he's still there.


John McCain, John McCain
by Elsinora on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 06:49:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It's the HillSignal! (1.66 / 6)

Did the HillSignal go off somewhere or something? Canadian Girl did a diary on this a day or two ago and there are 3 or 4 up right now.


Proudly joining the legions of people and states that don't matter on May 20th.
by Obama Independent on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:35:25 PM EST

Re: It's the HillSignal! (2.00 / 3)

That's what I was thinking!  There must have been an e-mail to Hillary's Bloggers.  Try to coordinate better next time.  And, you know, in language, people aren't speaking literally.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:37:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's the HillSignal! (2.00 / 1)

I meant "in language, people aren't necessarily speaking literally"


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:38:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's the HillSignal! (2.00 / 1)

I guess mine broke! I didn't receive any signals ... I guess I'm out of the bat cave club. :(


"If we can't live together... we're going to die alone."
by VAAlex on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:37:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's the HillSignal! (2.00 / 4)

I'm sorry. We here among the Obama cultists have brain implants to control our zombie like actions since we are apparently unable to rationally choose a candidate and instead go for empty platitudes, would you like one of those?


Proudly joining the legions of people and states that don't matter on May 20th.
by Obama Independent on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:46:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's the HillSignal! (2.00 / 4)

To quote the inestimable Homer Simpson:

"Does it go in the butt?"

(If yes, no.)


"If we can't live together... we're going to die alone."
by VAAlex on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:48:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm not really saying anything by this... (2.00 / 1)

but my first thought about a mind control device wouldn't be that it would go in the butt.  Just sayin.


by tonedevil on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:18:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm not really saying anything by this... (2.00 / 2)

As a Simpsons fan, it's one of those things you either place immediately, or you don't. :)


"If we can't live together... we're going to die alone."
by VAAlex on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:25:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I do get the reference. (none / 0)

I was simply sharing with you my hope that the pathway to controlling my mind isn't through my butt.  That a colonoscopy shouldn't be considered mind reading.  The preparation for it shouldn't be brain washing.  These thoughts are sick and wrong, but that's where my mind went when I read your comment.
This has, no doubt, been over-sharing.
by tonedevil on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:42:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I do get the reference. (2.00 / 3)

Uh......................

Yes, over-sharing.


"If we can't live together... we're going to die alone."
by VAAlex on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:54:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Given the intellectual qualities of this... (2.00 / 2)

...I wouldn't be surprised if certain blog posters were targetted with mind control devices in their posterior.  I mean, you don't brush your toes with toothpaste...


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:28:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's the HillSignal! (2.00 / 0)

Awww, Teresa, what's wrong, did I out some secret tool only the really 'leet Clinton supporters are supposed to know about?


Proudly joining the legions of people and states that don't matter on May 20th.
by Obama Independent on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 04:31:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Outrageous. (2.00 / 12)

To millions of women, that is an outrageous comment.  To every women who has ever been physically abused, that is an outrageous comment.  To every women who has ever been threaten by a man, that is an outrageous comment.  

I remember having a boss take me into his office and LOCK THE DOOR (I was 7 months pregnant) and tell me that I had just made a grievous error in a client presentation.  His hands were tightly gripping the edge of his desk as he spoke.  I ask what I had done and he told me that when he had said "yes" (about a presentation slide) he had really meant no...but that I had told the client "yes".  Other than wondering the the f*ck he was talking about I was scared - really scared.  The client was looking for me and he knocked on the office door and when he heard the lock being unlocked and came in he was very concerned about what had been going on.  My husband and my bosses' boss were not happy campers when I reported this idiot to them.  And this was in 1977.

So don't ever threaten to take a women into a room and only have the man come back out.

Olberman should be fired IMHO.


by CoyoteCreek on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:35:33 PM EST

Re: Outrageous. (1.33 / 6)

OH, GOOD GOD. Don't you DARE play the sexism card AGAIN. If he says this, he's sexist. If he said that you'd have to deal with her very delicately, that would be sexist too.

I could understand the bit about being angry over a threat. If she had been in office and he said that, it could be construed as criminal. But for people who keep saying that Obama playing the race card won't work, you never hesitate to play that gender card. Guess what, if you think charging RACISM won't work, charging SEXISM won't work either.


If you're being chased by an angry bull and then you notice you're also being chased by a swarm of bees, it doesn't really change things. Just keep on running.
by vcalzone on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:40:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Outrageous. (1.28 / 7)

No, see if we complain we're "whiners" or "playing the race card" if they do it they're
"standing up for women" because um, you see the difference is, well...... look Obama's pastor, a scary black man! Ooga Booga!
by Socraticsilence on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:30:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Outrageous. (2.00 / 7)

"PLAY" the sexism card?  Are you serious?
If someone had said that about Senator Obama, I would have been outraged.  Why?  Because using a metaphor of disappearing people when the object is African Americans ( a group with a history of being the victims of violence ...ie gone missing) would be racist.  

And guess what?  There is a history, a long one, and present one, of violence against women.  Using that metaphor anywhere, and interesting enough on cable news where the "missing woman" is 24/7 news (except during the political campaigns), is wrong.  It is sexist and it's wrong.

WOW, I knew some Obama folks had closed minds, but on this issue, I never expected it.


by Jjc2008 on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:34:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Outrageous. (2.00 / 2)

THIS WASN'T THAT. For God's sake, we have GOT to stop looking for any hint of prejudice everywhere. Do you HONESTLY think that helps in this campaign cycle??

People HATE that kind of thing, and it's what drove the country so far to the right in the 90s, what makes liberals into caricatures, and what true racists/misogynists love to point to in order to justify their own horrible statements.

I see now why so Clinton has trouble understanding the problem with "Gotcha" politics.


If you're being chased by an angry bull and then you notice you're also being chased by a swarm of bees, it doesn't really change things. Just keep on running.
by vcalzone on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:52:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You left off you typical closing statement (2.00 / 2)

of...

"sad, so sad"


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:17:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Outrageous. (2.00 / 1)

So you're absolutely fine with your fellow supporters on this site when they talk about how Obama is getting beat up by a girl, right?


by zep93 on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:35:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Outrageous. (2.00 / 1)

No he's not!

He's hiding under the NYT editorial board's skirts!

sez Carville (aka O'Reilly of the other team)


by wrb on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 06:30:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Outrageous. (2.00 / 2)

Thank you for sharing that very personal emotional trauma. It's amazing that even after reading that, that the Obama bloggers here didn't get it. Those words code as a threat of violence to women, plain and simple. Pretend all you want that it was "just a metaphor". No it wasn't, it's misogyny, and at best a subconscious desire to do great violence to Hillary. It's the "subtle" version of the overt threats Obama bloggers have made against both Hillary and female bloggers that support Hillary. We live in a society that treats rape and assault of women by men as entertainment. We live in a society that 1 out of every 5 woman is raped by a man, 1 out of 3 women are assaulted by a man, nearly 80 percent of stalking victims are women being stalked by males.

When a woman feels it's a threat of violence, it  is. It's as simple as that. If you can't get that, stop calling yourself a progressive, because you aren't. Being a progressive means taking sexism and misogyny as seriously as you do racism and homophobia.    


by K1966 on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 09:30:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Outrageous. (none / 0)

I think you are wrong on one point.  These words code as a threat, period.  They code as a threat to human beings.  And for that reason, they are a bad choice of words and really unhelpful.  But they are not specifically coded toward violence against women.  If he had said "Take her into the kitchen and only he comes out," you'd have a case.

Also, Olbermann was clarifying Fineman's words.


by ProgressiveDL on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 12:01:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

All the guys in this thread (2.00 / 1)

making fun of women who say they are offended by Olbermann's comment are part of the problem.  They can't ever conceive of being physically overpowered - and frankly - they don't give a damn about the rest of us.  I don't see this as about Obama or the presidency - it's about threatening a women 'in jest'.  Because Olbermann meant it to be 'funny' we all should laugh and just get over it.  That's how they see it, and you will never convince them otherwise.

So don't bother trying to explain what it felt like to hear something like that coming from a popular political pundit.  Like I said - they don't care.  It was said about Hillary, after all - someone they despise.  It's OK to say violent things about a woman you despise - everyone does it - its part of pop culture.  No one will call them on it - just as no one will point out to Olbermann what he said was wrong.


by The Fat Lady Sings on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 11:34:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: All the guys in this thread (none / 0)

I think the point is that it was not specifically language coded as violence against a woman.  It referenced violence (mafia-style or kung-fu fighting style) and happened to be directed toward a woman.  It wasn't directed toward her in that language BECAUSE she was a woman.  That being said, I think it makes sense to reject (and denounce) it because it references violence.  But to say that it is somehow specifically coded as domestic violence against women doesn't ring true, in my opinion.


by ProgressiveDL on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 12:04:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Red Red Wine (2.00 / 3)

Does anyone know what merlot Keith likes?


Fight for Democrats in Congress.
by owl06 on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:38:36 PM EST

Re: Red Red Wine (none / 0)

Keith drink pinot, honey.  We're elitists, remember?  It's probably something you common folk have never heard of.


by The Distillery on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:54:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Red Red Wine (none / 0)

I suspect he's particularly fond of Corton.

I had an elite board meeting in SF on Monday. Picked up some great cheese at that old Italian market on Columbus a couple of blocks south of Washington Square.

Now to pick the wine.

Oh damn, I have to muck out the stalls & check for new lambs  first.


by wrb on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 06:35:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hit Man Olbermann: (2.00 / 6)

Oh TexasDarlin,

I so appreciate your work.  It must not be easy, but you always come through.  Thanks so much.


It does not take many words to tell the truth Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
by Gabriele Droz on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:43:34 PM EST

Re: Hit Man Olbermann (2.00 / 7)

I think it is a federal offense to threaten a government official (especially one running for President).

What if some lunatic takes on Olbermann words and act on it?  This is to be raised to the FBI.


by JoeySky18 on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:46:55 PM EST

Re: Hit Man Olbermann (2.00 / 5)

Agreed. Do call the FBI right away. Get on it!


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:06:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hit Man Olbermann (2.00 / 3)

Yes, please contact the Secret Service. Maybe you'd get to be a national hero.


by zep93 on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:36:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hit Man Olbermann (2.00 / 2)

Call them then and let us know what they say after they finish laughing at you.


by Same As It Ever Was on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:39:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hit Man Olbermann (2.00 / 1)

we should also let them know that CBS reported that "Clinton is to Hit Obama" [emphasis added]. SHE'S GOING TO HIT OBAMA.

We need to get the FBI to investigate this--it's possible Obama may be PHYSICALLY ASSULTED by another candidate. Unless, of course, they were referring to the mob use of "hit" in which case CBS REPORTED THAT CLINTON IS GOING TO KILL OBAMA!!!!!!!!111111111


"Don't let it end this way; tell them I said something." -the last words of Pancho Villa
by shef on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 04:46:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

/snark (none / 0)


"Don't let it end this way; tell them I said something." -the last words of Pancho Villa
by shef on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 04:46:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hit Man Olbermann (2.00 / 1)

Knock yourself out.


by Skaje on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 04:54:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hit Man Olbermann (none / 0)

A) He's not threatening anyone.  He didn't say "I am going to take her into a room and only I am coming out."

B) As far as inciting others to violence, there has to be a reasonable chance that other people will listen to you and follow through on it.  So even if he had said "I hope someone does this," it's unlikely any of his viewers would be stupid enough to try it.

C) He was clarifying Fineman's words that the party leadership is going to do this, and I can't imagine any of the leaders are planning to beat up Hillary any time soon.


by ProgressiveDL on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 12:08:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Self-important assh*** CULTIST (1.66 / 3)

Typical of the Obama cult thinking


by observer5 on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:48:50 PM EST

geesh (2.00 / 0)

When will it stop???  This is ridiculous.....


I'm Ready For A Good Old GOP & John McCain Ass Kickin'!!!
by hootie4170 on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:56:53 PM EST

Re: Hit Man Olbermann: (2.00 / 6)

seriously, KO has gone off the deep end and the NYT? Saying Tuesday's results were inconclusive?? hahaaa they need to go back to honest reporting, if they can even remember what that is....


--++++Stay Gold, Ponyboy!++++--
by amde on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:59:12 PM EST

Re: Hit Man Olbermann: (2.00 / 3)

Well, a number of media outlets said before PA that Clinton had to get double digits -- and she didn't.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:06:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hit Man Olbermann: (2.00 / 4)


 My wife works at a womens abuse center and believe me, a statement like he said is not f..... funny. Anyone who does,has not had a family member need the services of someone like my wife.
Wisdom Is The Reward For Listening Over A Lifetime
by gunner on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:13:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hit Man Olbermann: (2.00 / 4)

Well in all fairness I don't think he's arguing it was funny, just that it's been grossly misinterpreted.


"If we can't live together... we're going to die alone."
by VAAlex on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:16:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hit Man Olbermann: (2.00 / 6)

How was it misinterpreted?  
Explain please.
It's a metaphor for a person gone mia as the way to deal with a problem.

If it had been said about Senator Obama, it would have and SHOULD have set off alarm signals because, in fact, this was how a particular group of people who did not have the same rights as the ruling class were "dealt with".  To disappear someone was a metaphor for violence to solve a problem.
I realize a fair amount of Obama supporters refuse to acknowledge that "white" women were ever the victims of anything, but statistics and history and even the present will prove that as a group women, regardless of ethnicity, are statistically a significant group when it comes to being victims of violence.

Everyone, not just democrats, should be appalled by the blatant and overt misogyny of MSNBC but sadly it has become acceptable as long as some think it helps Senator Obama.


by Jjc2008 on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:42:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'll give you Matthews (2.00 / 2)

Sure, there's one overt mysogynist with his own show on MSNBC (though he seems to have mysteriously warmed to her now that she might give the Republicans a better shot in the fall), but to say that Matthews is joined by Olbermann is ridiculous.

Olbermann has been fighting to get Rachel Maddow her own show for months now... that's right, not only a woman, but a lesbian (gasp).  How is that mysogynistic?  

If someone had used what Olbermann had said about Obama (were he in Clinton's place, nomination-wise), I would have sadly agreed.  If he'd have gone the BillO route and said that we need to call the "lynch mob" out, then I would have taken issue with it.

If Olbermann had said, "Somebody should send that lil' lady back to the kitchen where she belongs, whoa doggy!" then, yes, TexasDarlin would have a case.  But he didn't.  He used a situation that is just as metaphorical for either gender.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 04:06:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'll give you Matthews (none / 0)

That last line is the winner.  

I would say that even if he had said "Take her to the kitchen..." that would be incredibly sexist as well.


by ProgressiveDL on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 12:11:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'll give you Matthews (none / 0)

Gee and what a surprise...Rachel is an Obama person.  Bet that had nothing to do with it.
Again you miss the point.  ONE exception to the rule does not end the pattern of misogyny.

If MSNBC hired Ron Christie would you say that would end their pattern of racism.....fyi....Christie is an African American who is/was an assistant to Dick Cheney and worked for administrations that have undermined the rights of minorities.  MSNBC is a corporation whose anchors (the high paid, visible ones) are all white males.  What part of that picture/pattern don't you get?

Just because Rachel is female and lesbian does not make her infallible and does not end the pattern of misogyny any more than them hiring Mary Cheney would end their constant lean toward the right.


by Jjc2008 on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 02:01:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hit Man Olbermann: (2.00 / 2)

It was misinterpreted because you're taking it out of context. If the conversation had been about anything else but easing Clinton out of the primary be having a party elder talking to her and letting her know that she's run a fine race but it's time to quit, then I might buy this argument. But that's the only thing that this segment was about. To argue that he's advocating violence against Hillary is, I think, we both know to be disingenuous.

I'm not sure how you can claim that a fair amount of Obama supporters refuse to acknowledge that white women were ever victims of anything, as I've been reading posts on here but have never seen anything that would cause me to believe this from even one Obama supporter. Sure, they have their faults, but I think you're trying to make hay out of nothing, to be perfectly honest with you.

I'll be the first to call out b.s. or sexism -- I was appalled and continue to be with Chris Matthews -- but this is not the same. I'm sorry you've so thoroughly misinterpreted this and I don't mean to demean women at all, but there's no 'there' there.


"If we can't live together... we're going to die alone."
by VAAlex on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 04:08:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hit Man Olbermann: (2.00 / 1)

Um, just a point but if this is some vieiled misogyny then I think its alos valid to point out that using any similar analogy to Obama, say about not standing the heat or the kitchen are if one similarily stretches racist, I mean what are said comments implying that Obama should get out of the kitchen and og back  into the fields?  (obvious,ly not, but then agian Keith is just as obviously using a common analogy and not implying someon physically harm Hillary).


by Socraticsilence on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:33:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hit Man Olbermann: (2.00 / 3)

I have serious doubts that you even understand what it's like to suffer sexual and physical abuse at all if you would equate this comment to real women suffering from domestic violence.  And, fyi, just because your wife helps women does not actually mean you do.  You don't get kudos second hand so enough with your self-righteousness.


by The Distillery on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 04:01:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

who gives a shit what media outlets have (1.83 / 6)

to say about what Hillary needs to get?

Now, want to get to the point that Olberman made a really lousy sexist remark about how to deal with a woman who will not accept her place according to a lot of men?


For Obama it now becomes: Faith, hope and CHANGE! And the greatest of these is Change!
by TeresaInPa on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:25:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: who gives a shit what media outlets have (2.00 / 3)

You're just so awesome. Can I borrow those glasses so that I can read between the lines, too?


by zep93 on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:37:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: who gives a shit what media outlets have (2.00 / 4)

I am amazed at the amount of ignorance and denial that comes from some of the Obama supporters (and MSNBC defenders and lovers) here.


by Jjc2008 on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:43:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: who gives a shit what media outlets have (2.00 / 0)

So, I'm ignorant as well now? And my 11 year old is ignorant because I let him watch each night? Go ahead...


by zep93 on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 04:08:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

glasses won't help you (2.00 / 4)

you need a seeing eye dog.


For Obama it now becomes: Faith, hope and CHANGE! And the greatest of these is Change!
by TeresaInPa on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:47:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: glasses won't help you (2.00 / 1)

Nevermind, it's not glasses at all. It's the white sheet getting in your way.

http://www.mydd.com/comments/2008/4/25/1 43011/022/53#53


by zep93 on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 04:13:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: glasses won't help you (2.00 / 0)

You're making fun of blind people!

I hope all your friends and family have enough sense to disown you, and your employer fires you for your blatant insensitivity to people with disabilities.


by The Distillery on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 04:16:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: who gives a shit what media outlets have (2.00 / 1)

It's not that she is a woman who won't accept her place, it's that she is a politician who won't accept that she has lost.

I would be just as scornful if my guy Joe Biden was hanging on banging away at the presumptive nominee as I am of Hillary doing it.


If you are not voting Obama, please let me know so I can replace your sorry ass with another new voter.
by Darknesse on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 05:38:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Well (none / 0)

Her "place" right now is second.  So, yes, they are talking about party leaders having to (eventually) figure out a way to point out to her that she can not get out of second place and needs to quit.


by ProgressiveDL on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 12:14:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hit Man Olbermann: (none / 0)

so more than a 5pt. win was inconclusive?? i dont get it. so that margin of voters like what 120k (right? i dont feel like google-ing it) are inconclusive...right. the NYT can call it what ever they want, besides their blatant disregard for us "little people" that voted in PA and the others that dont bother reading their posh up-scale paper, its like moving the goal posts when they say she must win, then she must win by double digits (which most non-political junkies think she did).

I guess maybe Ill just stick to my crappy local paper where they tell me she won conclusively.


--++++Stay Gold, Ponyboy!++++--
by amde on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 04:02:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hey, if you can't take the heat... (1.40 / 10)

GET OUTTA THE KITCHEN!

Better yet, get back in there and make me supper!

Now, that's a sexist comment.  Please learn the difference.


by IowaMike on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:08:10 PM EST

hey dumbass (1.85 / 7)

making a joke about taking a woman in to a room to deal with her using violence is sexism.


For Obama it now becomes: Faith, hope and CHANGE! And the greatest of these is Change!
by TeresaInPa on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:20:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: hey dumbass (2.00 / 3)

Glad to know I'm raising my 11 year old son right by letting him watch KO most nights.


by zep93 on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:39:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

This is shameful (2.00 / 5)

Trying to spin this as a call to domestic violence is beneath contempt.

How dare you.  Domestic violence is one of the most serious issues facing our country. It is never to be taken lightly and should never be used to try and score points in some stupid debate between politicians. Do you think the people suffering from domestic violence right this minute give a damn who wins today talking point?

And you know damn well that is not what Olbermann was doing.

This is cheapening your rhetoric to a new low.


Until we stop harming all other living beings, we are still savages. ~Thomas A. Edison
by mattjfogarty on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:40:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This is shameful (2.00 / 1)

I agree with you. That was my point.


by IowaMike on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 07:16:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You know you want it both ways. (2.00 / 2)

If this comment had been made about Obama, then no problem. I guess because he's a guy. Keith was trying to explain to you that at some point soon one or more party elders are going to take Hillary aside and tell her it's over whether she likes it or not. That's not sexism. That's just facts. Were she a guy he could use the same analogy and it wouldn't have any more or less sexism in it.


John McCain supports privatizing Social Security.
by Travis Stark on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:42:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You know you want it both ways. (none / 0)

If Hillary supporters do not vote he would lose in a landslide.


You may not agree with What I say but don't forget I am a Democrat
by indydem99 on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 04:26:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Don't make out that Hillary supporters are dumb (2.00 / 2)

You may not vote for Obama if he's the nominee, but the majority of Hillary supporters are not dumb. Many have realized or are beginning to realize that she has lost, and they will support Obama against John McCain. If they don't, after he has legitimately won the nomination, then there's a name for those people. We call them Republicans.


John McCain supports privatizing Social Security.
by Travis Stark on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 04:31:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You know you want it both ways. (2.00 / 1)

Why do you think he just launched a 50-state voter registration drive?  He's not stupid.  He knows you guys will follow your bankrupt leader anywhere.


by The Distillery on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 04:33:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: hey dumbass (2.00 / 1)

He wasn't making a joke, he was making a metaphor. Did you see him crack a secret smile? Did he wink at you? Do you not think he'd say the same thing if their roles were reversed? If the answer to any of these questions is yes, I feel a LOT better about Obama's chances if you guys are the ones in her phone bank.


If you're being chased by an angry bull and then you notice you're also being chased by a swarm of bees, it doesn't really change things. Just keep on running.
by vcalzone on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 04:04:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: hey dumbass (none / 0)

I'm sorry. I hoped that didn't go through. Sometimes you just need to step back, and that time for me was right before I made that.


If you're being chased by an angry bull and then you notice you're also being chased by a swarm of bees, it doesn't really change things. Just keep on running.
by vcalzone on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 04:14:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: hey dumbass (2.00 / 1)

Would you like if he makes the same joke about Obama? If you do not have a problem and think it is a joke may be I should make it!


You may not agree with What I say but don't forget I am a Democrat
by indydem99 on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 04:24:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: hey dumbass (none / 0)

Um, yes.  


by rfahey22 on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 04:29:14 PM EST
[