McCain Tips Hand, May Run Dishonorable Campaign

The common wisdom among many is that in the case that Barack Obama is the Democratic nominee, the GOP hit machine will work as follows: A Republican crosses the line in attacking Obama, the media repeats the attacks over and over and over again in questioning whether it is right for the attacks to be put forward, John McCain quasi-denounces the attack, then a subsequent round of discussion (and replaying the attacks) goes on in the media. In such a situation, the attacks get out without McCain looking bad. Indeed, we've seen such a game play out surrounding an attack ad revolving on Reverend Wright that the North Carolina Republican Party is attempting to put on the air.

But there is a flaw with this common wisdom: McCain's clear willingness to resort to the lowest common denominator on his own. Take a look at the candidate's own words today.

All I can tell you Jennifer is that I think it's very clear who Hamas wants to be the next president of the United States. So apparently has Danny Ortega and several others. I think that people should understand that I will be Hamas's worst nightmare....If senator Obama is favored by Hamas I think people can make judgments accordingly.

Attack politics work best when the candidate attacking is able to shield him- or herself from the attack. There must be at least some plausible deniability involved lest the attack backfire, making the attacker look petty, unfair, and just plain wrong. If is for this exact reason that many have believed that McCain would merely use the North Carolina GOP/Wright model.

Problems arise, however, when the candidate himself takes a dive in the mud. And that's exactly what McCain does here, suggesting implausibly and laughably that Obama is the candidate of dictators and terrorists. For a politician who has hung his hat on the term "honor" for so long, this isn't exactly an honorable campaign tactic. And it's a tactic that will likely backfire. The American people are not watching McCain as closely now as they will in a few months. But if McCain is willing to let slip in a public interview comments like these -- and perhaps lets slip such comments later on in the campaign -- he will be in for a rude surprise come the fall when his own favorable numbers begin to tumble.



Display:


Re: McCain Tips Hand, May Run Dishonorable Campaig (none / 0)

well he was always gonna say that. its like in the Cold War, they'd say "who does the Kremlin" want to win. But I haven't seen any indication yet he'll allow complete slander ads to go on TV. He'll probably do what he did with the NCGOP right until November, and them let them lose in the swing states. that could spell disaster


"there is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured by what is right in America"-William Jefferson Clinton, forty-second President of the United States
by DiamondJay on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:10:36 PM EST

Re: McCain Tips Hand, May Run Dishonorable Campaig (2.00 / 1)

" I haven't seen any indication yet he'll allow complete slander ads to go on TV."

Of course he won't "allow" slander ads, it is his job to play "good cop" and remain clean and above the fray, while the 527s flay the Democrat ruthlessly. That is the way it works. Of course BO supporters will howl as their candidate is destroyed. So much for the bipartisan politics of hope.

Clinton supporters weren't born yesterday and we know how the game will unfold, we are ready for it, and she can slam McCain without reservation. We will win this time around, none of their swiftboating will work, we will hit harder and faster than anything they can throw our way. We won't be Kerried out of taking the executive this time, because we are smarter and faster on our feet than  the Repugs.  She can close the deal, and we will have a Democratic President, Senate, and House in 2009, just get the amateurs out of the way...


by 07rescue on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:22:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCain Tips Hand, May Run Dishonorable Campaig (2.00 / 1)

"Of course BO supporters will howl as their candidate is destroyed."

Obama has effectively countered Hillary's slime machine and will do so with McInsane's.


The choice is simple: A President who voted for the worst of Bush's odius agenda, or one who didn't.
by Liberal Avenger on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:26:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCain Tips Hand, May Run Dishonorable Campaig (none / 0)

Exactly.  Just wait.


by Pat Flatley on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:27:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCain Tips Hand, May Run Dishonorable Campaig (none / 0)

The problem with taking McCain's answer out of context is the fact he was responding to the question from the reporter about Hamas actually coming out with a public statement endorsing Obama.

McCain didn't create this Hamas thing out of whole cloth, he was answering a journalist's question.  It's out there, so Obama needs to respond.


by minnehot1 on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:44:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCain Tips Hand, May Run Dishonorable Campaig (none / 0)

The extent of his answer (Obama's) should be as follows:

"Hamas doesn't have a vote in this election and I could care less who they support, publicly or otherwise."


Oh Mammy Dear, we're all mad over here livin' in America
by JDF on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:26:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCain Tips Hand, May Run Dishonorable Campaig (none / 0)

I don't think you want Obama saying that he "could care less" which would meant that he does care about getting Hamas' endorsement.

Just sayin'.


by joc on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 06:10:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCain Tips Hand, May Run Dishonorable Campaig (none / 0)

I think it is almost exactly what he should say. He should point out, as often as possible that there voice DOES NOT MATTER in our election system. Acknowledging that it is important in anyway is not only stupid politically but stupid from a foreign relations standpoint.


Oh Mammy Dear, we're all mad over here livin' in America
by JDF on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 06:25:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCain Tips Hand, May Run Dishonorable Campaig (none / 0)

Wait for what?  Shouldn't Obama be responding to this?


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:58:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What slime machine? (none / 0)

Hillary hasn't had any 527 run Reverend Wright ads yet. Hillary barely mentions it. The rumours on obama's religion were not started by the Hillary campaign, they began when he gave his DNC speech, because people found out his name is Barack Hussein Obama. Even if this primary were against Al Gore instead of Clinton, did you really think people weren't gonna speculate about Obama's religion? With a name like that? Growing up part in Indonesia, the most Muslim country in the world, with the plurality of Muslims living there? This is a campaign. What candidate wouldn't seize on Obama's elitist remarks? People want to win you know, not everyone is gonna lay down and roll over for King Obama.


"there is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured by what is right in America"-William Jefferson Clinton, forty-second President of the United States
by DiamondJay on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:31:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Thank You For Clearly Articulating (none / 0)

Why Hillary must not win


by bernardpliers on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:39:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

i really wanna kno (none / 0)

what slime machine from Hillary? Hillary hasn't done anything slimey at all. I wanna know what specific slime Hillary only is responsible.


"there is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured by what is right in America"-William Jefferson Clinton, forty-second President of the United States
by DiamondJay on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:42:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What slime machine? (none / 0)

You know... the one that called Obama a crack dealer, that said he attended a radical muslim school, that has emphasized his middle name, that has said all-white people won't vote for a half-white candidate, that accused him of lying about NAFTA when Hillary in fact supported it, that attacked him because of things his former pastor said, that said Mad McCain was better prepared to be president than Obama, that ran a rovian ad featuring bin Laden....

You know. THAT slime machine.


The choice is simple: A President who voted for the worst of Bush's odius agenda, or one who didn't.
by Liberal Avenger on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 04:20:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What slime machine? (2.00 / 2)

hillary never called Obama a crack dealer, nor did her campaign, that was an internet rumour, and it was the internet Republicans who talked about his middle name. Honestly, its his middle name, what is so bad about Barack Hussein Obama, Hillary's is Hillary Rodham Clinton, but it was the internet and Bill Cunningham who mentioned it, not the Clintons. Sure, Rendell said SOME conservative whites won't vote for a black, but do you really doubt that to some degree he was right? Obama's camp DID try to tell Canadians that he'll never really touch NAFTA, and you could never prove the Clintons were behind revealing what RACIST WHITE HATING Jeremiah Wright said.

Do you really think if Hillary had just rolled over for his majesty Barack Hussein Obama, that Wright would never have come out, nor would rumours about him?

The Clintons deserve to be honoured, not slandered.


"there is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured by what is right in America"-William Jefferson Clinton, forty-second President of the United States
by DiamondJay on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 04:32:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What slime machine? (none / 0)

MyDD :: Hillary stands strong behind Bill Shaheen
"I don't think Obama is a crack dealer. But I do think Bill Shaheen did nothing wrong."
www.mydd.com/story/2007/12/13/113013/92

Kerrey Says Obama Attended A Secular Madrasa - The Huffington Post. ... Former senator Bob Kerrey, who recently endorsed Sen. Hillary Clinton's presidential ...
www.huffingtonpost.com/_77209.html  

Why Did Bob Kerrey Mention Obama's Middle Name -- Hussein?
www.huffingtonpost.com/_77162.html

Canada Says TV Story on Obama NAFTA Deception is 'Untrue'
www.cnsnews.com/ViewPolitics.asp?Page=/ Politics/archive/200802/POL20080228b.htm l

Rendell: Whites 'not ready' for Obama
www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23134717/

Clinton: Wright "Would Not Have Been My Pastor"
Hillary Clinton has reintroduced the issue of Barack Obama's pastor Jeremiah Wright today. First, she mentioned the controversy during a ...
www.huffingtonpost.com/_93318.html

The Clintons deserve to be honored only if Karl Rove and Lee Atwater do.


The choice is simple: A President who voted for the worst of Bush's odius agenda, or one who didn't.
by Liberal Avenger on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 12:50:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What slime machine? (2.00 / 1)

Since not one of the statements in your post is factual, I see that you mean the slime machine that exists inside your head.


by joc on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 06:13:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What slime machine? (none / 0)

Which planet did you just arrive from? Talk about selective amnesia.


The choice is simple: A President who voted for the worst of Bush's odius agenda, or one who didn't.
by Liberal Avenger on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 12:36:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCain Tips Hand, May Run Dishonorable Campaig (2.00 / 1)

Of course BO supporters will howl

I think what you meant to say is "of course Democrats will howl and fight back as their candidate is attacked"...

You are beyond naive if you think these attacks are somehow unique to Barack Obama.


by bawbie on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:41:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCain Tips Hand, May Run Dishonorable Campaig (none / 0)

Nope she meant what she said- because a lot of Clinton supporters are going to sit back and laugh, while hoping for 2012..

Kinda sad isn't it?


Oh Mammy Dear, we're all mad over here livin' in America
by JDF on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:27:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCain Tips Hand, May Run Dishonorable Campaig (2.00 / 1)

Well if he wants to go that route we should have no problem bringing up his drug addicted wife who steals from the poor.


by regina1983 on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:12:29 PM EST

Re: McCain Tips Hand, May Run Dishonorable Campaig (none / 0)

I say we bring up how he betrayed our troops in Vietnam, telling them where American planes were flying, and link them to US deaths. We also bring up his "illegitimate" child.


"there is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured by what is right in America"-William Jefferson Clinton, forty-second President of the United States
by DiamondJay on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:14:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCain Tips Hand, May Run Dishonorable Campaig (none / 0)

Good idea. I don't know why nobody is making an issue of these facts yet. Wait to the general election!


by dMarx on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:25:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCain Tips Hand, May Run Dishonorable Campaig (2.00 / 1)

No need for that. McCain can be slain with the simple truths about his own record and proposals.


The choice is simple: A President who voted for the worst of Bush's odius agenda, or one who didn't.
by Liberal Avenger on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:27:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCain Tips Hand, (none / 0)

The Democrats just need to stop being wimps and just fight back.  That's what I like about Obama.  First time I've seen a national Democrat stand up for what he believes in and fight back against it.  He always bounces back stronger as well.


by RussTC3 on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:15:27 PM EST

Re: McCain Tips Hand, (none / 0)

He will turn McCain into a punching bag.  He'll take his hits - no doubt - but he will just pound McCain senseless.


by Pat Flatley on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:23:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCain Tips Hand, (2.00 / 2)

He has kept his best weapon (sarcastic wit) under wraps out of respect for the party and the Clintons.

But he won't pull any punches on McCain.


by bawbie on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:42:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

let's just hope Clinton doesn't say this next (none / 0)

it's bad enough coming from McCain, but how long before Clinton starts calling Obama "Hamas' candidate"? she's followed along with every other ReThug smear.


the time to rise has been engaged.
by catchaz on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:19:05 PM EST

She has done no such thing (none / 0)

Wright wouldn't be my pastor either- that is so mild compared to what the GOP will do and say if Obama makes it that far.  Give me a break.  Poor Obama, getting beat up by the girl.


by linc on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:22:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She has done no such thing (none / 0)

Actually he laughed at her.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:39:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

And then (2.00 / 1)

proceeded to whine about it.


by linc on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:11:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

May? (none / 0)

are we still trying to tell ourselves that the GOP will go easy on Obama in the general?  Wow.


by linc on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:19:25 PM EST

Re: May? (none / 0)

Who cares if they're tough?  A strong offense/defense will counter any attack.  Come on people, the Republicans got Bush in twice.  Do you think they did that based on the candidate, or their strong offense/defense?

The Democrats finally have a candidate willing to strike back and be on the offensive.


by RussTC3 on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:21:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

They sure do (2.00 / 2)

Clinton.


by linc on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:22:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: They sure do (2.00 / 1)

Come on.  Both of our candidates would absolutely hammer away at McCain nonstop.


by Pat Flatley on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:24:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: They sure do (2.00 / 1)

I agree.  Unlike Senator Clinton, I truly believe that BOTH candidates would win in 08.  I just think that Obama puts in play more states than Clinton.


by RussTC3 on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:28:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: They sure do (none / 0)

We can agree on this RussTC3, both candidates will win in '08 and Obama does put more states into play. It's just that when some of those states are Democratic strongholds like Massachusetts and New Jersey, it is not good. Better to put states like Arkansas, West Virginia, and Florida in play.


by joc on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 06:29:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCain Tips Hand, May Run Dishonorable Campaig (2.00 / 1)

John McCain will have absolutely no idea what hit him by the fall.  He will be Abe Simpson.


by Pat Flatley on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:20:25 PM EST

Re: McCain Tips Hand, May Run Dishonorable Campaig (2.00 / 1)

I can't tell you how much I'm looking forward to wailing on this clown for months at a time.


by Pat Flatley on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:21:57 PM EST

Re: McCain Tips Hand, May Run Dishonorable (none / 0)

Oh man this is great news; I can't wait for Obama to obliterate this geezer.


by obamaforprez on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:26:24 PM EST

Re: McCain Tips Hand (none / 0)

The Republicans won't give up the White House without a fight, no matter who the nominee is.


by JustJennifer on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:30:44 PM EST

Re: McCain Tips Hand, May Run Dishonorable Campaig (2.00 / 1)

I think we should all call on John McCain to immediately denounce and reject John McCain.


by Ray Radlein on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:31:31 PM EST

McCain Can Attack Hillary's Religion (none / 0)

She has established that this is fair game and a Very Serious Issue.

She belongs to the "Family," and its founder Doug Coe praised the tactics of Mao and Hitler as leaders that his followers should emulate.

So Hillary will need to deny that she is a Nazi, or a Communist, of a genocidal maniac every single day.  

Hillary needs to get out there and deny that she is genocidal maniac, and she needs to repeat it every day. Why won't Hillary denounce genocide?


by bernardpliers on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:35:48 PM EST

Re: McCain Tips Hand, May Run (none / 0)

Why in the world would any democrat expect Republicans not to EXPLOIT the Wright/Obama love affair.

Hell, If I were a Republican, I'd have TV & RADIO ads of Wright/Obama 7 days from October to November.

Politics is about winning & pushing you agenda.

Liberals have a different agenda of being "Politically Correct"


by latinfighter on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:39:26 PM EST

Correct. And the blogosphere (none / 0)

will hammer Hagee & Parsley and play the words of MLK over and over again showing that Wright was echoing the sentiments of a beloved hero.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:41:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Correct. And the blogosphere (none / 0)

The blogosphere?  I don't think there are a lot of swing voters tuned into the blogosphere!


by Thaddeus on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:03:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

McCain is a moron (none / 0)

Terrorists love the Dems is so 2004-2006. RIP.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:42:21 PM EST

Re: McCain Tips Hand, May Run Dishonorable Campaig (2.00 / 1)

McCain will hand us plenty of ammo. He already has. My concern is we package it properly with devastating easy-to-remember summation. We botched that in '00, garbage like You Ain't Seen Nuthin Yet and People vs. the Powerful. And '06 virtually wrote itself, anything negative about Iraq. I can almost guarantee the GOP will insert something short and simple, an '08 version of flip flopper, into the national vocabulary to describe Obama.

As far as honor, just remember what McCain did in the Florida primary, twisting Romney's old words regarding Iraq strategy, at the last minute of the most vital primary, after never mentioning it throughout the campaign.


by Gary Kilbride on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:49:49 PM EST

Re: McCain Tips Hand, May Run Dishonorable Campaig (2.00 / 2)

I sure can't remember the public backlash against Republicans claiming that the terrorists are rooting for Democrats to win.  That's like page 1 of the Republican playbook.  When did the public consensus develop that such arguments are unacceptable, and where can I go to read about it?

From where I sit, the public may or may not put any stock in these arguments, but they sure don't seem to have any problem with the fact that the arguments get made.  Are we pretending that because we think these claims are off limits, everyone surely must agree with us?


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:50:17 PM EST

Re: McCain Tips Hand, May Run Dishonorable Campaig (none / 0)

Good post but please don't allow the Repubs to claim that "Danny" Ortega is a dictator.  He was elected president, just like the first time.


by Thaddeus on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:04:13 PM EST

It is a good thing that Hamas likes Obama (none / 0)

People assume that anything that people who are viewed as our enemies like is somehow bad.

This is bad thinking.  Hamas probably likes Obama because he's fond of talking to people honestly before bombing the crap out of them.

Jimmy Carter's recent trip to the Middle East showed us that these folks are open to diplomacy, even if the Bush Administration isn't.

Obama's not going to be a featherweight in international crisis issues (he displayed good judgement with his Pakistan bombing responses), but he's also going to try and recruit local powers to keep the peace, which is going to be necessary if we don't want to be in Iraq for the next hundred years.

Anyway, McCain's one hope was if he could convince Obama to take public financing; his lack of control over the state GOP races and 527s will probably give Obama the rationale he needs to keep using his fundraising machine.


You can't stop the signal.

President "That One"

by Dracomicron on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:21:39 PM EST

Re: McCain Tips Hand, (none / 0)

Fair enough Big john, of course Obama never signed a statement calling his fellow soldiers war criminals, or spent 5 years with the communists, so I think we should ask is John McCain the Manchurian Canidate?

(No, Obviously not but hey if Slappy McCan't fly well-- seriously my dad retired at rear admiral and McCain was kind of view as the same sort of "legacy" officer that Bush is viewed as, the man was a suck pilot who crashed 4 jest before being shot down, and he would have been kicked out of Annapolis if not for his name).  Hell, I think someone should point out how many of McCain's friends have ended up in prison for Corruption, not just the Keating deal either, look at Duke Cunningham, or the chair of his AZ campaign-- if Ayers means Obama's anti-American, and Bill's friends mean Hill's pro-pedophilia, then surely the fact that McCain has a connection to multiple corrupt individuals should at least dent his "incorruuptible" facade.


by Socraticsilence on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:24:17 PM EST

Re: McCain Tips Hand, (none / 0)

Yes! What we need more of is pounding McCain for his personal failure in Vietnam! Same thing they did to Kerry we need to do to McCain only 100 times worse!


by dMarx on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:31:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama still loses (none / 0)

Unfortunately, McCain isn't stupid enough to continue down this road.  But Obama's negatives can only go up.  

That's the problem with a candidate with zero accomplishments and no reservoir of good will with the public at large.  Unlike, say, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Obama is, quite literally, all talk.  When the Republicans define him in terms of Wright and Ayers, it's their word against Barack's.  Why should voters take a chance?  They know John McCain--and, as Obama himself said, anybody's better than Bush.


by Upstate Dem on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:44:13 PM EST

Re: Obama still loses (none / 0)

Yeah I know John McCain as the guy that helped pass campaign finance reform and then violated it as soon as it became necessary for him to win.

All talk...I can think of plenty of leaders throughout American history that you could classify that way. Unfortunately for Hillary, her only vote of real consequence over the past 8 years was sending Americans to die and kill in Bush's war.

If you think now is a time that Americans won't consider something new then I will redirect you to Herbert Hoover circa 1932.  


by wengler on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 05:10:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hope (none / 0)

If you're running a campaign on the HOPE that Republicans are not going to attack based on whatever they think might work, well, you're just dumb.  And whining about it doesn't help.  


by DaveOinSF on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:47:10 PM EST

It isn't just Hamas who wants Obama (none / 0)

People the world over are really excited about him becoming president.

http://www.theworldwantsobama.org/search /label/Islamic%20World

That link is to the Islamic page. One of the stories:

Lots of people in my neighborhood, who until now, simply believed what the propagandists told them about American politics, got active and looked up in-depth information about the US primaries and about Obama. Often also, he got covered on Al-Jazeera and other Arab TV networks and every time, I witness the effect in my neighborhood. Yesterday, I went out shopping and suddenly spotted a poster of the Obama-campaign in the window of my grocery-dealer, who immigrated to Holland from Iran. He told me that he saw him on television and got so excited that he downloaded the poster from the internet and put it up. He would love him to become president, because with him, "finally, someone will talk to the idiot running my country!"


"Too much sanity may be madness. The maddest of all is to see the world as it is and not as it should be" Don Quixote, "Man of la Mancha"
by Ginny in CO on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 04:55:56 PM EST

Oops, The world wants Obama, Con't (none / 0)

I hit post instead of preview. Need new glasses.

Given that

-Even Hillary has said Obama can win.

-Either of them will get the GOP smear campaign,  Hillary has plenty of negatives that will only need to be subtly reinforced to generate the negative emotions in independent and swing voters. It seems she has at least one new one that could have legs. http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/tal k/2008/04/what-hillary-clinton-and-the-m -1.php

-Despite the charges of Hopium addiction, etc (? I still have my  "A Man from Hope" video), a lot of us are actually rational, informed and adequately intelligent enough to make a reasoned decision. Moreover, Obama has some major supporters, elected and not, who have never been considered mentally lacking or unbalanced.

I think there are several tangential advantages he has.

-The unbelievable symbol to the AA community that the glass ceiling is broken. To countless AA youth mired in ghettos and the cycle of poverty. I think this overwhelms what a Hillary presidency will do for women.

-Contrasted to what a Clinton nomination will do to the black support for the Democratic primary. If you haven't heard some of the AA community talking about this, pay more attention. The block did not support Rev Jackson for the simple reason that few really saw him as a credible candidate. Now they have one that is competent in the minds of many intelligent, knowledgeable people, has run a phenomenal campaign against an extremely strong candidate, and has the higher delegate count. The Super Delegates can take into account the popular vote, what there is of it. Keep in mind that the caucus states do not register a popular vote to tally in, and FL and MI will be inaccurate unless there are revotes with campaigns and both names on the ballots.

Personally, this will also extend to a lot people like me (white, 55, educated female) who lived through the Civil Rights era and have continued to fight the discrimination that persists. Trust me, the Democratic party does not want to infuriate, alienate and lose these blocks in '10 and beyond, probably to the Greens.

- Regaining immediately some of the good will we have lost world wide since W has been POTUS. Putting us much further ahead diplomatically, on Nov 12th, than we would be with Hillary on 1/20. There are incredible movements world wide that are just like this one, without the politcal leader. The bottom up, top down coalition has more power than than either alone to bring about change. Most of the transformational changes we need,  are also global. The problem solving and innovation has started here and elsewhere. It needs more exposure, effort and funding.

It isn't just America that needs to unite. The world is running out of time to find common ground and work together. There is a critical mass of world wide population that understands this. (See Blessed Unrest and other books like it) We aren't the only ones who have a government that is acting against our wishes in foreign policy and diplomacy. The Cold War mindset about the evil intentions of other governments was counter productive, it actually created and escalated the problem. To continue it will only continue the escalating violence and destruction, loss of lives and money that could be constructively spent to fix the problems. Putin has already reacted to Hillary's "obliterate Iran" comment with the concern that if we continue in that mode, they and others will be forced into spending money they don't have on defense.

I have lost an Ike prediction about this. Something to the effect that some day the people would rise up and tell their leaders to get out of the way so they could establish peace.

Your calender may not have this, mine says it is someday.


"Too much sanity may be madness. The maddest of all is to see the world as it is and not as it should be" Don Quixote, "Man of la Mancha"
by Ginny in CO on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 05:54:56 PM EST

re (none / 0)

McCain and Obama personally dislike each other from when Obama first came to the Senate. Expect it to be very nasty and personal where as McCain does have respect for Hillary and vice versa. It would be more of a policy debate. Not so the other way


by rossinatl on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 06:03:28 PM EST

Re: McCain Tips Hand, May Run Dishonorable Campaig (none / 0)

I listened to a McCain campaign appearance in New Orleans on XM Radio yesterday afternoon. First let me say that back in 2000, I was a McCain supporter in his bid against Bush. But, this guy is not the same person he was in 2000. I dont know what happened to him but he is a bitter, cranky old man. To boot he seems confused at times and worse arrogant. His answers to some very concerned questions from the folks attending the event were standoffish at times. I was a John Edwards supporter right til the end and still believe he was the best candidate. I am however supporting Obama now. As a republican I am totally disenchanted with the GOP and the current leadership of both parties. You listen to Obama and you get the true sense of a concerned, thoughtful, understanding leader. This is what we need right now.

The constant fear mongering over Iraq and terrorism is absurd. We most certainly should fear andbe concerned about Islamic Terrorism which the greatest threat to security we face. But we also have great economic concerns which McCain seems clueless about. Out with the old, in with the New....its time for real change in this country.


by adb67 on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 07:53:36 AM EST

McCain is being played by Hamas (none / 0)

Just as when Al Queda made pro-Kerry statements, the Hamas pro-Obama statement is being made by intelligent people who are trying to manipulate our election. In both cases, they know how unpopular they are, and are "supporting" a candidate in order to manipulate us into electing Presidents that they favor. This isn't just my opinion, it's the CIA's analysis as well.

Sure, Bush and McCain are strongly anti-Al Queda and anti-Hamas. This is exactly what Al Queda and Hamas want, and benefit from. Because if the US acts like Al Queda and Hamas are important world-leading enemies, that validates them as the leaders of the anti-US movement. Of course, the Bush/McCain's unthinking aggressiveness also drives previously supportive people away from us. So not only are they causing the ranks of the anti-US forces to expand, they are publicizing Al Queda and now Hamas as the leaders. The result, of course, is that Al Queda recruiting has benefitted immensely, making them far stronger.

Of course, this is all what the current leaders of the Republican party want. They know that if the US has a scary enemy, they can use that fear to mobilize support for pretty much anything that they want to do (i.e. take over Iraq's oil fields, suppress dissent, illegally spy on americans, attempt to establish a permanent Republican one-party state, giving untold billions of dollars of non-bid contracts to their friends).

If they'd responded by doing what would have been best for the country, by capturing Bin Laden and the rest of the people actually responsible for attacking the US, and establishing effective counter-terrorist security, the whole thing would have been over years ago. So clearly that wasn't their goal.

Instead they shut down US counter-terrorist the instant that they were in power, ignored specific warnings that Al Queda planned an attack inside the US that could involve hijacking commercial airplanes and flying them into targets, only took a few faltering steps towards securing the borders when forced to by the Democrats, then pulled forces out of Afghanistan (where the people who attacked us are) in order to invade Iraq. Aside from the oil, invading Iraq was completely counter-productive, since they were the country keeping Iran in check (i.e. we put Iran in control of the middle east), and they were a secular country violently opposed to "islamic extremists" (i.e. we flipped a modern, secular government into an Islamic state). So not only are the Iraqi people much worse off now than under Saddam Hussein (not an easy achievement, they hate him, but now they hate us more), but we managed to put a government friendly with Iran in place of a government that hated Iran. And, of course, the invasion and occupation of Iraq has managed to weaken the US Army while damaging our economy and discrediting us internationally.

If anyone wanted to do more harm to US interests in the Middle East than Bush and McCain have, I'm not sure how they could have done so. About all that you can say in their favor is that they made a few friends fantastically wealthy and advanced the fundamentalist vision of nuclear armageddon in the middle east. And that's what is really important.


by laird on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 09:16:06 AM EST


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