Polling Indicates Continued Tight Race in Indiana, Even Post-PA

From the looks of it, the results out of Pennsylvania this past week have had little to no effects two states over in Indiana, which will be holding a Democratic presidential primary of it's own on Tuesday May 6th. Two new surveys out of the state -- one of which was in the field mostly before the Pennsylvania results were known to the world, the other of which was in the field entirely after the primary results were known -- both show an extremely tight race in the Hoosier state:

Selzer & Co., 534 Dem LVs, April 20-23, MoE +- 4.2%

Barack Obama: 41 percent
Hillary Clinton: 38 percent

Research 2000, 400 Dem LVs, April 23-24, MoE +- 5.0%

Barack Obama: 48 percent (46 percent in early April)
Hillary Clinton: 47 percent (49 percent in early April)

Neither Pollster.com nor Real Clear Politics has seemed to update their trend estimate or poll average, respectively, but a simple averaging of the past five polls out of the state shows Hillary Clinton leading 44.0 percent to 43.6 percent over Barack Obama -- or about as close as these things come in politics. Four of the past five polls in the state have shown the race to be within the individual margin of error of their poll, with only a single SurveyUSA two weeks ago putting Clinton up by 16 points (though a subsequent SUSA poll commissioned by the Downs center had Obama up 5 points).

The numbers may yet move in Indiana, but for now this contest, which has been put forward by many political players -- including folks in the campaigns and even perhaps the candidates themselves -- is about as evenly matched as they have come this primary season.



Display:


Re: Polling Indicates Continued Tight Race in Indi (none / 0)

Does Selzer know Indiana as well as she does Iowa?


by elrod on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 12:05:17 AM EST

Re: Polling Indicates Continued Tight Race in Indi (none / 0)

Didn't she nail Iowa?


by regina1983 on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 12:21:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Polling Indicates Continued Tight Race in Indi (none / 0)

My own 2 cents, fwiw:

the reason that the polling has been so highly variant has been that the pollsters have been having trouble accounting for the turnout.

if Obama can regain his high turnout (which appeared to fall in PA) among college students and AAs, then some pollsters have correctly incorporated that and will be more accurate.

on the other hand, if, as I suspect, the slight dinks to Obama's shiny polish have caused college students and AAs to stay home closer to previous, non-Obama trends, then HRC will outperform these polls.

I don't think these polls capture intensity and they're obviously having a difficult time predicting turnout.  I'll go out and say HRC +7 in Indiana.


by RedSox04 on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 10:09:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

College Students' Finals time (none / 0)

One problem for Obama: his college student following is taking their finals, having final papers due, or they are starting to head home for the summer at this time of year...I haven't seen this mentioned. (I teach at a university)- he had a huge drive to register college students, but they are not as reliable once the semester ends.


by sunnyaz08 on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 10:16:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Polling Indicates Continued Tight Race in Indi (none / 0)

I guess this'll be the next Pennsylvania, which was the next Ohio. Obama's got a good shot here; if he wins in IN, and runs away in NC... guess we'll have to wait and see.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 12:08:00 AM EST

Will the MyDD crew decide that this contest (none / 0)

should be dragged out to the Convention? Whaddya think RageKage?

Personally I think Singer and Beeton will see the light. But Jerome, who I've always liked, seems hell-bent on a Hillary or Bust approach to our Dem 2008 elections.

God have mercy on us all, and please, please, please not a President McCain.


Clinton Democrats care about the same things I do, most importantly beating John McCain.
by TrueBlueCT on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 01:42:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Will the MyDD crew decide that this contest (none / 0)

Have you worried about Markos or KO who seem hell-bent on a Obama or bust approach?

Do you think they will vote for McCain?

If not, then why do you think other similar progressives will vote for McCain? Just because someone doesnt agree with you, doesnt mean they like McCain. And even if someone likes McCain, doesnt mean one will vote for him.


by Sandeep on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:24:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama happens to be clearly in the lead... (none / 0)

Unlike Senator Clinton...

And trust me, were Obama clearly behind, with no hope of victory outside of a convention upset, -- yes, I'd be turning on him to push for an end.

Nothing is worth a long hot summer of intra-party divisiveness. Nothing.

Neither one of these politicians is much better than the other, and there are only two things I want. (not necessarily in particular order) 1) to prevent a President McCain and further damage to the SCOTUS. 2) to increase our Congressional majorities to the point where we might have a working Progressive majority.

Obama? Clinton? Who gives a crap!? But let's not kill our collective advantage and agenda.


Clinton Democrats care about the same things I do, most importantly beating John McCain.
by TrueBlueCT on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 05:24:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama happens to be clearly in the lead... (none / 0)

You're absolutely right.  Under the rules of Democratic nominations, Obama clearly has a lead sufficient to give him the win.

Oh wait, no he doesn't.

"Why won't that stupid *itch just quit?"


by RedSox04 on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 10:10:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Well... (none / 0)

The difference is that Obama is the presumptive Democratic nominee.  Kos might not vote for Hillary if she had won the nomination (though I can't imagine him staying home), but he certainly wouldn't vote for McCain.  

The major difference is that many Hillary supporters are centrists and believe (rightly or wrongly) that McCain is closer to their positions.  Obama supporters tend to be much farther left and see Hillary's centrist positions as still closer to them than McCain's moderately conservative (sometimes very conservative) positions.


by ProgressiveDL on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 01:26:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Will the MyDD crew decide that this contest (none / 0)

I think we'll all eventually come together--who wants a Pres McCain?  But, as a Hillary early voter in CA, I will tell you, I believe it will be Obama. First, he brought energy to the party. Second, the supers do not want to be responsible for taking the win away from him a.k.a. a black man (yes, it will be a win after NC and IN), Third, he's turning people like me (50 year old white female) around.  I will vote for either, but now getting caught up in the Obama energy, I will support with my time, energy, effort, and money Obama. I would have supported Hillary with only my vote. The supers don't want to lose the energy forces that Obama brings to the table for down ticket votes. They are not stupid. I am not the only one thinking this way.There are many converts. There will be more after 5/6.  End this thing!


by citizensane on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 01:50:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Tight Race in Indiana, Even Post-PA (2.00 / 2)

The thing is - among rural or bluecollar voters, I really don't think they give a hoot who won PA.  I have no scientific basis for that, but I just think of folks I know that fit the demographic, and I thinkt hey are far less concerned with the "horse race" aspect than we are.

~12% Undecided is pretty intense, though.


by bobbank on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 12:09:31 AM EST

Re: Tight Race in Indiana, Even Post-PA (none / 0)

That's probably right, except that a relatively high % of them said they wouldn't vote for Obama.  That's the number we oughta be concerned about.

Obama should really just drop out of the race, for the good of the party.


by RedSox04 on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 10:11:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tight Race in Indiana, Even Post-PA (none / 0)

Do you live here in Indiana? No? Didn't think so, so don't pretend to speak for us.


by zep93 on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 11:04:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

The Selzer poll seems somewhat strange to me (none / 0)

On one hand, she did call Iowa almost exactly. On the other hand, I can't see Obama ahead outside the MOE in Indiana against McCain at this point.

Then again, I didn't see his victory in Iowa either. Selzer might be right, or this could be an outlier. We'll see in a few weeks, I guess.


John McCain
by MILiberal on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 12:09:59 AM EST

Re: The Selzer poll seems somewhat strange to me (none / 0)

Yeah, those GE matchups are crazy. Clinton ties McCain and Obama wins by 8? Indiana hasn't gone Democratic since 1964. But hey, maybe Jerome will color Indiana blue on the map above.


by elrod on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 12:19:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Somehow I doubt that... (none / 0)

nt.


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 12:30:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Selzer poll seems somewhat strange to me (none / 0)

Was that question asked only of Democrats, or of all registered voters?


by Angry White Democrat on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 01:22:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Voters who say they'll vote in Nov (none / 0)

Here's the link:

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar ticle?AID=/20080424/NEWS0502/80424082


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:42:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Polling Indicates Continued Tight Race in Indi (none / 0)

That's funny - -

'Cause the way I read the polls, Clinton had a significant lead in late March / early April - then Obama closed the gap and went ahead, barely but more than the MOE, in mid April.  Now is back to a tie.

What that suggests is a dynamic very much like Pennsylvania.

http://www.pollster.com/08-IN-Dem-Pres-P rimary.php


by johnnygunn on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 12:18:58 AM EST

Re: Polling Indicates Continued Tight Race in Indi (2.00 / 1)

That's based on the Howey-Gauge poll. You need to look at movement within a poll.


by elrod on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 12:20:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Polling Indicates Continued Tight Race in Indi (none / 0)

the Indiana polls have been particularly erratic and bc we have few... the RA are kinda befunkity ( I believe this is the technical term. The movement is around Clinton and undecided  http://www.pollster.com/08-IN-Dem-Pres-P rimary.php

The SUSA polls seem to have really low undecideds but maybe it is the automated thing.. if you dont know you just hang up.


by hctb on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 04:48:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Polling Indicates Continued Tight Race in Indi (none / 0)

I would say Obama by 4-5 points because of Northwest area and Chicago market.


by regina1983 on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 12:22:28 AM EST

Indiana really could go either way. (none / 0)

It's Obama's region and he currently has a distinct advantage in mayoral machines in the big cities (although Indianapolis's mayor is a Republican, so that fight will be without machines), but with a lot of blue-collar, industrial worker voters.


Wouldn't it be nice if there were no rhetorical questions?
by Elsinora on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 12:47:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana really could go either way. (none / 0)

I'm putting my money on Obama. Also, Hillary's areas are not as populated as Obama's strongholds. Most of the democratic vote comes from the northern part of the state.


by regina1983 on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 01:00:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm betting on Obama as well... (none / 0)

...but if it went the other way, it wouldn't surprise me a bit.


Wouldn't it be nice if there were no rhetorical questions?
by Elsinora on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 01:16:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana really could go either way. (none / 0)

uhh. indianapolis machine has nothing to do with the mayor.. but many Indy Dems are pissed at the sheer ineptitude of the party--see the Peterson loss and Sonny Carson as two recent examples where the party faithful were left with a distinct impression the party is being run by Larry, Curly, or Moe. Come to think of it, it is probably Shemp.


by hctb on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 04:52:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana really could go either way. (none / 0)

Indianapolis's new Republican mayor probably doesn't have a machine to work with at this point --- he was elected in something of a shocker with few of the state's Republicans giving him much in the way of support against the former popular mayor, Peterson.

I haven't heard whether Peterson is supporting either candidate in particular, and I guess I don't know how much of his machine is still in place. For a fair chunk of Indy, Andrea Carson's machine was pretty formidable. Andre took over for his mother when she died, and he's supporting Obama. I suppose the same machine is still in place.

Indy and The Region make up a sizable chunk of the Democratic population of Indiana and probably give Obama a respectable shot in Indiana. Obama's recent pickup of the endorsement of Evansville's popular mayor is especially helpful to him too.

Counterbalancing that, Hillary has a lot of the same favorable demographics in Indiana as she had in Pennsylvania; though I tend to feel that Indiana's culture is quite a bit different from Pennsylvania culture.


by mhojo on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 07:34:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Polling Indicates Continued Tight Race in Indi (none / 0)

I really am surprised at these numbers. I would think just anecdotally (really don't know the first thing about Indiana) that it'd be similar demographically to western Pennsylvania, and therefore very good for Clinton.

I know, I know, everybody keeps saying he's got strength in the Chicago media market and the city of Indianapolis. But that doesn't seem to me to be enough- maybe 40-45%.

I think I'll wait till the new SUSA comes out to figure out where to put the line on this one. Seems like they're the only poll we can trust anymore.


Senator Obama will be formally nominated on August 28, 2008 - the 45th Anniversary of Dr. King's "I Have A Dream Speech."
by brimur on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 01:02:33 AM EST

Re: Polling Indicates Continued Tight Race in Indi (none / 0)

Robopolling seems to eliminate any Bradley effect, which is good...


"This was never part of our arrangement, Specter" "I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!" "This deal keeps getting worse all the time!"
by LordMike on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 01:13:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Polling Indicates Continued Tight Race in Indi (none / 0)

It's nothing like western PA. Some cities are: Terre Haute, Fort Wayne and Elkhart. But even they are different as working class voters are primarily non-union and Republican. The heavy steel region is along Lake Michigan near Chicago.


by elrod on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 01:44:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Polling Indicates Continued Tight Race in Indi (none / 0)

feels rather like Wisc. to me - Obama polls close but the Chicago machine, volunteers that is, puts him over the top


Bring Back MyDD - Just say No to Rec'ing Candidate Diaries.
by CardBoard on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 01:07:08 AM EST

Re: Polling Indicates Continued Tight Race in Indi (none / 0)

Don't forget Limbaugh's "Operation Chaos", though....


"This was never part of our arrangement, Specter" "I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!" "This deal keeps getting worse all the time!"
by LordMike on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 01:14:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Polling Indicates Continued Tight Race in Indi (none / 0)

I think that operation might be slowly falling apart, though. Right now, he's trying to convince his followers to keep Hillary in the race as long as possible, maybe even giving her a shot at winning. Boy oh boy do they hate that idea.


"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."
by vcalzone on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 01:43:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Polling Indicates Continued Tight Race in Indi (none / 0)

I doubt Limbaugh's effect is very great in any event, but I wonder if he could be hurting the GOP in November. If only more rabid Republicans are sticking around to vote in the GOP primaries, it's conceivable that they'd nominate nuttier candidates who wouldn't fare as well in the general elections.

(Then again, it could be that only the nutjobs are following Limbaugh's advice; thereby having a moderating effect on the GOP in the primaries.)


by mhojo on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 07:38:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Polling Indicates Continued Tight Race (none / 0)

Most of the delegates are in Gary and Indianapolis.  Even if she wins the state by 10 points she only picks up like 4 delegates.


by Skaje on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:26:39 AM EST

Re: Polling Indicates Continued Tight Race (none / 0)

If she wins the state by 10 points, that produces a problem for the Obama story and the increasing Obama as McGovern drum beat.


by hctb on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 04:55:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Polling Indicates Continued Tight Race (none / 0)

I'm pretty sure that whatever happens in Indiana and North Carolina, people like you will be beating that drum anyways.


by Skaje on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 05:19:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Polling Indicates Continued Tight Race (none / 0)

I'm one of those people, and if Obama can make gains among the working class base, I'll be prone to changing my mind.

I suspect none of the Obama supporters will say the same if Obama (again) loses terribly among this group (and they again say in high #s they won't vote for him).


by RedSox04 on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 10:14:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Polling Indicates Continued Tight Race (none / 0)

If she wins by 10, it will certainly be impressive. Admittedly, the polls are pretty thin in number, so we can't know, but that certainly looks like it would be a big movement towards Clinton, which is something we haven't seen in any primary so far this year. If she could pull that off, I'd be impressed.

I don't think it would get her to actually beating Obama though... Not unless she can also cut Obama's win in NC to under 5.

Under 5 in NC, and IN by 10, and I think I would start to pay attention again. Follow it up with a win in OR, and I'd start to wonder what was going on.

I'd give it less than a 1% chance of happening in this universe, but it would actually get me to think that she had an argument as to why the SDs should think about voting for her.


by alephnul on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 05:56:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Polling Even Post-PA (none / 0)

In the Selzer poll,Clinton is doing well among white women, who back her 48 percent to 29 percent. Among all women, though, Obama is slightly edging her out, 41 percent to 40 percent.

This seems to me to be a mathematical impossibility, given that the AA share in the Dem Indiana primary is only 13 % and there is no other major ethnic group.


by Rajesh on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:52:46 AM EST

Re: Polling Even Post-PA (none / 0)

Not so much with the maths in South Bend, I think. :)


by hctb on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 04:54:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Polling Even Post-PA (none / 0)

It would appear that black women (referring to people as AAs bugs me somehow, not calling you out or anything, just saying why I won't) make up a tiny bit more of female Democratic primary voters than black people over all make up of the total of Democratic primary voters. It's true that 48% of 87% is 42% of the total, and Clinton is supported by something like 7% of black voters, so she should have 43% of women's votes if black women made up 13% of women voting in the Dem primary.

If 1% of Clinton's support among women comes from black women, then black women would need to make up 16.667% of women voting in the Democratic primary. That is not that far off of 13%, although it would mean that black men represent only 8.5 % of male voters (assuming a 55:45 female:male split in the total primary electorate).

Of course, it is also possible that there are some rounding errors involved.

Did this have a point, or you also a little number obsessive?


by alephnul on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 06:16:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You're drifting off message, Jonathon (none / 0)

Now hurry up and drink your Koolaid so we can get back to work here.  Repeat after me:  REVEREND.WRIGHT.IS.EVERYTHING.EVER YTHING.EVERYTHING.

THE SKY IS FALLING ON OBAMA!!  YEEAAARGHHH!!!!1!!

Oh, and Hillary is leading in the popular vote if you count Uzbekistan.

Cute polls though.


The Wages of Sin is about $5.15 an Hour.
by hz on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 08:57:43 AM EST

Re: You're drifting off message, Jonathon (none / 0)

Sorry, spelled Jonathan wrong.


The Wages of Sin is about $5.15 an Hour.
by hz on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 08:58:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

The sky has fallen on Obama (none / 0)

He knows it, no doubt.It doesn't help when Clyburn comes out and plays the race card again. Obama has become the Black Candidate, not the candidate who happens to be black, but will work for all Americans. The well is poisoned.


by bird52 on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 09:17:44 AM EST

Re: The sky has fallen on Obama (none / 0)

Please what EXACTLY did he say that supports your claim he was "Playing" the race card. You seem to think when a black man criticizes Hillary it's a race baiting. Did you take the same position when Geraldine Ferraro played the "Race" card?
 
by eddieb on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 10:36:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

He's the half-black candidate. (none / 0)

He's also the half-white candidate.  So he will work half for black Americans and half for white Americans by your logic.

Also by your logic, Hillary and McCain are the White Candidates so that will work only for white Americans.

Here's something to consider...your 'logic' is total bullshit.


That One is the Right One for 2008.
by GFORD on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 10:54:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Polling Indicates Continued Tight Race in Indi (none / 0)

Let's wait for SUSA though
they has her up 16 last time

by darlene25 on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 09:48:54 AM EST

Talking about polls - margins of error (none / 0)

Indana looks close. I wouldn't say that PA "had no effect" since there is so little prior Indiana polling from these companies. To call a trend you need several polls from the same company and using the same methodology. From a collection of national and local polls I've seen it looks like Obama had a general rise in early April and Hillary had a rise in mid April. My guess is PA had some effect - more in the higher numbers of undecided voters in these polls. Also, what is problematic is that we are picking at margins of error - which is statistically flawed. All the numbers really show is that it is 'close' and that a bunch of people haven't made up their minds. If you see numbers move 1 point or 2 points and the margin of error is 4.5 points then you still have little to discuss.


by sunnyaz08 on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 10:06:16 AM EST

Continued Tight Race in Indi is agood thing (none / 0)

One thing has become very clear, the voters are paying absolutely no attention to the spin meisters. If you look at the results across the country the voters are not being swayed by the elite class of self important talking heads! Thank God!People have not been swayed by Wrght or bosnia as the wingnuts would like them to. They are voting for what, to them is the best candidate. The best of to great Democrats. They are not so invested they are begining to hate each other as so many who comment here seem obsessed with hating their rivals.


by eddieb on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 10:28:57 AM EST

obama was up 5 before prim. in 2 polls (none / 0)

show there was a small bounce


DEMOCRATIC 08!
by rigsoHC on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 11:13:14 AM EST

You guys are spinning so hard... (none / 0)

I guess you will zap this comment too.
since ohio, hil has gotten 5 plus delegates. how great is that.
by kareng on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 12:16:16 PM EST

Re: You guys are spinning so hard... (none / 0)

It's the unpledged superdels that matter now.


by doyenne49 on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 12:40:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Polling Indicates Continued Tight Race in Indi (none / 0)

In looking at Pollster it is clear Clinton is trending down and Obama up...

http://www.pollster.com/08-IN-Dem-Pres-P rimary.php


"If you want to end war and stuff, you gotta sing loud"...Arlo Guthrie
by nogo war on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 12:32:40 PM EST

It's actually good for Clinton that Obama has a (none / 0)

lead in Indiana, because that way if he winds up losinjhg, it's a catastrophe. He could always claim, in Pennsylvania, that he cut a 25-point deficit to 9. What will he say if he turns a 4-point lead into a 4-point loss?


by doyenne49 on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 12:39:59 PM EST

Polling Indicates Continued Tight Race in Indiana (none / 0)

When is the next SUSA Indiana poll due out?


by ThompsonTOT on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 01:45:48 PM EST

Re: Polling Indicates Continued Tight Race in Indi (none / 0)

I think next week.


by darlene25 on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:14:34 PM EST


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