The Movement

by NewHampster, Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 09:59:02 AM EST

The fun of Scranton is over and I have lots of work on my desk so I thought I'd post this newest video from the artist Flineo.

Think. That's all we ask. Think


  • I hung some with SDS members.  
  • I took over the ROTC building at ASU.  
  • I marched on Washington.
  • I read and followed The Teachings of Don Juan
  • I stepped outside myself
  • I did not like what I saw
  • I used my brain to THINK

There but for the grace, BS.  There but for my brain go I.

Think. That's all we ask. Think




Tags: President, Hillary Clinton, 2008, flineo, video (all tags)

Display:
Permalink :: 140 Comments :: Post a Comment


Tips for the Thinkers (2.00 / 28)


I didn't believe in god before the primaries and I still don't.
by NewHampster on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 09:59:24 AM EST

Re: Tips for the Thinkers (2.00 / 11)

Flineo does great work.


by bobbank on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:17:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tips for the Thinkers (2.00 / 9)

Looks like your tip jar got hit by a TR abuser.


by Caldonia on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:18:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Thanks, Hampster... (2.00 / 10)

And please thank Flineo for us. You both did a great job with the vid & the commentary. :-)


No way, no how, no McCain! :-)
by atdleft on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:19:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Nothing like good ol' fear mongering (none / 0)

Love the farrakhan thing...why don't you put Hilter up there?  Why don't you just scream like Bill "Hey, wake up America he's a black man!"  Why don't you give us a shot of Bin Laden?  When Hillary lies it is a misstatement.  When Obama tells us the truth it really burns you.  It is the use of negative images like this which got the NYTimes "Low Road to Victory" opinion.


by SovSov on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 08:01:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

In other words (2.00 / 1)

Obama supporters don't think. It's all emotion.

Uh hum. I'll try to remember that if you succeed in poaching the nomination and come around asking for my vote.

Because you sure don't need the votes of non-thinking, over-emotional stupid people, do you?


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:08:34 AM EST

Re: In other words (2.00 / 9)

poaching?  lol

the problem is that both candidates will make their case.  The SD's, according to the Democratic rules, will make the decision, because like it or not, neither of them will make 2024 without the SD's.

stop with the nonsense of "stealing", "poaching", etc.


by colebiancardi on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:10:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I'll consider that (1.20 / 5)

when Hillary's more indelicate followers stop calling me young, stupid, unthinking, all that kinda stuff.

You can't have it both ways. Either, we are are over-educated elitists, or, we are stupid and lazy children who need mommy's firm hand to guide our faltering steps.

And yeah, if she loses pledged delegates and takes the nom via super-delegate coup, not that anyone wants to get on board her sinking ship, that would be stealing. If that happens, all bets are off.


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:15:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'll consider that (2.00 / 10)

and how about Obama's more indelicate followers who call Hillary supporters old, non-progressive, not democrats, elderly white women, stuck in the '90's, all that kinda stuff.

and you are still incorrect about the "stealing" part - if SD's, whose purpose is to make sure that the nominee is electable, decide the person who is best to beat McCain is Hillary, then that is part of the rules.  

SD's were put in place FOR that reason.  Not to go with the "will of the people", who might put up someone who can sink the party and lose the GE like a McGovern or Mondale.

I am not stating that is Obama, but that is what the SD's look at.


by colebiancardi on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:22:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'll consider that (2.00 / 1)

old, non-progressive, not democrats, elderly white women, stuck in the '90's,

That's partially accurate, except for the not Democrats of it. Progressives are aligned against Hillary, her strongest demo is white women over fifty, and Clinton nostalgia is a powerful motivating force - just look at all those gauzy how-awesome-were-the-nineties diaries.

So you get to call us stupid when we describe your main demographics accurately?


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:38:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'll consider that (2.00 / 6)

ok, then I guess it is partially accurate the names you get called on.

and yes, we get to call you stupid when you do NOT describe out main demo correctly.


by colebiancardi on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:42:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

No (1.75 / 4)

...you don't get to call me stupid.


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:46:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No (2.00 / 5)

well, I guess I just did.


by colebiancardi on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:53:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No (2.00 / 6)

oh and troll rating, because I used the "we" phrase?

lol.  Thin-skinned, aren't we?


by colebiancardi on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:53:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Good god (2.00 / 0)

You called him stupid and you think it's incorrect for him to troll rate you for it?

I thought ad hominem attacks against commenters weren't cool according to the rules.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:56:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Good god (2.00 / 6)

I didn't call him stupid.  I stated that yes, we can call him stupid (note, the can, not the actual)  

and until this thread, I have never called him stupid - that was something that HE brought up, not me.


by colebiancardi on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 11:02:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

The fun part is (2.00 / 1)

that you probably think you're in a position to, like, say something insulting.

Not at all. I can't help but consider the source :-)


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 11:08:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The fun part is (2.00 / 3)

No, not at all.  You were the one who stated that people called you stupid and all I did was state if you post BS, then we, as in not necessarily me, can call you to task on that.


by colebiancardi on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 11:09:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You're more than welcome (2.00 / 1)

to "call me to task" on whatever you see fit. But given the steady stream of insults in this condescending tripe masquerading as s diary, even if there's an entire gang of Hillary followers, you had better not even toe up to the line of calling me or anyone like me stupid.


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 11:16:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You're more than welcome (2.00 / 4)

You were the one who brought up the stupid comment, not I.

try again.  No one is "calling to task", but calling out the BS.


by colebiancardi on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 11:45:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You're more than welcome (2.00 / 3)

and you keep troll rating me on separate comments that point out that you were the one that brought up the stupid comment.

good going!!


by colebiancardi on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 11:57:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

lol (2.00 / 6)

what makes you think white woman over 50 (really over 30) are not progressive?  We are the most progressive part of the democratic party.


For Obama it now becomes: Faith, hope and CHANGE! And the greatest of these is Change!
by TeresaInPa on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:57:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: lol (2.00 / 5)

That comes from not having a long history with the party.  Short lens conclusions are dangerous for the party.


by Caldonia on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 11:07:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Please acquaint yourself (1.00 / 4)

with the functions of the comma in grammar. It can be a concept separator, which in this case, it is.

Awesome. I am so outnumbered here :-)


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 11:09:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Please acquaint yourself (2.00 / 4)

you are outnumbers because you came here to piss on hillary supporters.


by colebiancardi on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 11:11:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Please acquaint yourself (2.00 / 3)

dang, outnumbered, not outnumbers.

type to fast...must slow down.


by colebiancardi on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 11:11:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Nah. (2.00 / 1)

The object of this diary is to piss on people like me. And not one Hillary supporter has seen fit to say a word about that.


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 11:18:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nah. (2.00 / 3)

because you piss on Hillary supporters in general.  That is why no one has seen fit to say anything in your defense.


by colebiancardi on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 11:46:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Sure. (2.00 / 1)

Because Hillary followers otherwise have an unblemished record of standing up for Obama folks, right?

God, I'm such a horrible person, I agree.


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 11:51:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sure. (2.00 / 2)

jeez, a circle that just keeps going round & 'round.

the same can be said about Obama supporters as well.


by colebiancardi on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 11:56:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Actually... (none / 0)

...I have a reasonably good track record of doing just that on Daily Kos. But by all means, please persist in making judgments without knowledge of the particulars.


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 12:29:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Actually... (2.00 / 1)

we aren't on dailykos - I have never even registered there, so I don't know what your track record is.

but here on mydd, I can see your track record.


by colebiancardi on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 12:39:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Honestly... (none / 0)

...I don't need to stand up for Hillary folks here. What's needed here is for some Clintonites to stand up to some of their fellows when they go off the rails.


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 12:47:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Well, i'm sure if I looked at the percentages... (none / 0)

I'd find them a lot less accepting of blacks and gay marriage.

At least they are in Millersburg.

But, if you want to talk Democratic women... maybe you should specify.

This typical PA White Person, and her entire family voted for Obama (including the Republicans).


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 01:41:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You say "Clinton nostalgia" with (2.00 / 2)

the same sneering anger that conservatives say "godless liberal".  

So, please enlighten us:  Who should have been president in the 1990s?   Name that person (man, woman, child, living or dead, American or foreign) who would've done all the good things Clinton did and none of the bad.

And keep in mind that when democrats attack Clinton, that is the most DIVISIVE, PARTY-WRECKING aspect of this whole campaign.   And it has been pushed entirely by the Obama campaign.  Talk about doing the Republicans work for them!  That and smearing the Clintons as racist.

Yes the Obama folks have done a wonderful job of wrecking the Democratic party, all the while accusing Hillary of doing it because she dares to call a man with no experience "inexperienced."


by miker2008 on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 11:58:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

miker (2.00 / 0)

Are you serious? Obama folks are the ones wrcking the democratic party? Uh no. Hill and those of your ilk are pissed off because Barack has taken away the ladder that would've led to her undeserved throne. Barack has taken the high road time and time again while Hillary has consistently taken the low road of shameful politics. He showed a tremendous amount of class during the debate when he refused to comment on her "make-believe" sniper episode. She has gone out of her way to insult him just because SHE ran a low rent pitiful and penniless campaign. Divisive my ass. Who's campaign is throwing out words like judas? Who is dissin moveon.org and democratic activists? Who's questioning whose patriotism?


"Beauty, more than bitterness, makes the heart break." Sara Teasdale
by april34fff on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 12:31:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hillary attacks Prez Clinton (none / 0)

every time she mentions the experience meme.

Every time she says that she got experience from being first lady, she says that she helped Bill make his decisions. Or she made them for him.

But hey, that's if you take her at her word, and assume she isn't dogwhistling.

'round here, we got keen ears.


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 01:43:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Excuse me (2.00 / 1)

I am a progressive for HRC. The reason being, her policy positions are more progressive, by and large, than his.

Oh, and I was NOT a Clinton supporter in the 90s. I worked for Jerry Brown.


by OtherLisa on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 12:30:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What in particular... (none / 0)

makes you think that her policy positions are more progressive than Obama's?

All I seem to know is that she campaigned for censorship, and that Wall Street loves her.


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 01:44:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What in particular... (2.00 / 2)

Do the research, and you will learn more.

I'll mention two:

Universal healthcare is a progressive value (Obama's proposal is not universal).

Her environmental platform/proposals stronger than his - well, his CURRENT platform is pretty much the same as hers. But earlier in the campaign he was strongly in favor of corn-based ethanol, liquid coal and this combined with his pander to the nuclear industry (the bill which he weakened and said passed but didn't pass) make me very suspicious.

Plus he has those University of Chicago economic advisors, who also make me nervous.

In many ways their policy proposals are very similar, but hers have a far greater level of detail and she displays a better grasp of the issues and the nuts and bolts than he does, at least in debate settings.

So I ask myself, who is more likely to deliver in meaningful ways?


by OtherLisa on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:23:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Volockher endorsed Obama (none / 0)

I think that says all that needs to be said about his economic policy. We're in for a lot of hurt, no matter who becomes president. Our powder's all wet.


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:32:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Just going to throw out there... (none / 0)

Her policy isn't universal either.  She makes everyone get insurance, but it isn't single-payer UHC as we progressives are looking for.  She still hasn't elaborated on her method for enforcing her mandates.

It's a bad situation, but we're not going to get true UHC no matter what candidate we elect, at least not in the next four years.  I'd give both Democrats even odds that they'll have things set up for UHC within eight years, though.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:06:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

...hillary supporters old... (2.00 / 0)

well, if the shoe fits..(now, now, just kidding)

Seriously though, imho, no way the superd's overturn the will of the people. It would destroy the party.

AA's wouldn't vote for John McCain. They would just stay home.


"Beauty, more than bitterness, makes the heart break." Sara Teasdale
by april34fff on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 11:56:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

damn right they won't overturn the will (2.00 / 2)

of the people, because more people have voted for Hillary.


For Obama it now becomes: Faith, hope and CHANGE! And the greatest of these is Change!
by TeresaInPa on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 12:23:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: damn right they won't overturn the will (2.00 / 0)

Pardon moi? Barack is leading in pop. vote, states won, delegate count. He leads her by roughly half a million votes.


"Beauty, more than bitterness, makes the heart break." Sara Teasdale
by april34fff on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 12:37:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

"...who need mommy's firm hand..." (2.00 / 5)

Why do you feel the need to view a woman leader through the lens of "motherhood?"  And they say this election has nothing to do with gender???


by izarradar on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:42:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Why do you feel (2.00 / 1)

the need to turn support for a better candidate than yours into something infantilizing? I've just been told, in this thread, that it's OK to call me stupid. Ergo, I need a firm hand to guide me along. The principal source of guidance for the young is usually the mother.

It's not about gender, it's about the laughably condescending attitude that what's required for the people beating you is parenting.


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:50:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

stop (2.00 / 4)

you are just making shit up and being terminally hyperbolic.


For Obama it now becomes: Faith, hope and CHANGE! And the greatest of these is Change!
by TeresaInPa on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 11:00:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: stop (2.00 / 6)

i dunno - must be something in the water. they've been like this since about... oh, 10 PM tuesday night.


by campskunk on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 11:03:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: stop (2.00 / 4)

LMAO  You're evil.


by Caldonia on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 11:09:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: stop (1.33 / 3)

Heh. And here comes Teresa with more stuff that doesn't matter.


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 11:11:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I am sorry (1.00 / 1)

do you feel like he is encroaching on your territory, eh?


-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 11:39:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

It takes two parents (2.00 / 3)

ideally to guide the young.  If it's not about gender, why do you choose to use the word "mommy?"  


by izarradar on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 11:16:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Hmmm, let me think. (2.00 / 1)

Because what I'm being offered as a cure for my own ignorance and childish stupidity is to support a candidate who happens to be a woman and has campaigned on being a mother?


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 11:19:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Then I repeat (2.00 / 1)

Gender plays a factor in this race.    That you can't look past the fact that Hillary is a mother, only means you are seeing her through
a sexist lens.  Why do you need to label her as a "mommy guiding us" and not as a "leader guiding us?"  Thoise were YOUR words, and not mine.  You see Hillary only as a "mommy" and not as a "leader."  One word implies female gender, and the other has been used exclusively in this country to describe a male.  
by izarradar on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:03:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Please. (none / 0)

If you need to reach that hard for supposed bias, when the subject of conversation is that we Obama people are children, then you'll reach. But where I'm from, children don't have leaders, they have parents.

Besides, frankly, the word leader doesn't come to my mind when I think of Hillary. We went through almost eight nightmarish years, and where was she? Keeping her head down and her powder dry for her turn. That's not leadership, that's career planning.


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 01:35:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

It's not a reach at all (none / 0)

Your gender bias is blatantly there for all to see.  No matter how much you try to duck and weave, or take it off task.


by izarradar on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 01:18:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I sure as hell don't! (none / 0)

when we're talking About WI Darcy, or Miss Donna.

Hell, that representative from DC doesn't make me think mother either.

But when someone represents much of their experience as being a mother... it's fair game.


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 01:46:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'll consider that (none / 0)

After reading so many messages of unity, all I can say is that your comment is very childish and I hope you are not childish. You should analyze yourself and make sure you are not acting as a sore loser. The threats of stealing, all bets are off, etc are childish acts.

You can not steal something till someone owns it.


by Sandeep on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 08:14:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: In other words (2.00 / 5)

He sounds a little overwrought and scared.


by Caldonia on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:17:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: In other words (2.00 / 5)

Still abusing your TR privilege.  If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.


by Caldonia on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:21:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Try (2.00 / 1)

not posting personal attacks. I know you folks count on your numerical superiority, but isn't this what the laughable "strike" was all about?


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:29:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: In other words (2.00 / 5)

there's a good example of a lesson still to be learned- i learned it in 1968. you ALWAYS vote for the nominee, unless you want people like richard nixon and george w to win the presidency.

some nader voters learned it on 2000 with the florida recount.

let's hope nobody learns it this year.


by campskunk on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:12:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Absolutely. (2.00 / 2)

Just make sure to point that out to all the Clinton followers screaming that they'll not vote for this Obama upstart.

Because it sure looks like his name will be on that November ballot :-)


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:19:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Absolutely. (2.00 / 5)

Don't count your chickens....


by Caldonia on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:21:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Yeah, because (1.50 / 2)

otherwise you might become an inevitable candidate right up to the day when people start voting. Like Hillary.


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:30:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Absolutely. (2.00 / 1)

Nope, don't count the chickens, yet ...."They are not coming home to roost"...not this time...give it a few years...


by NHLight on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 11:10:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Absolutely. (2.00 / 3)

you're a clinton supporter? sorry, my mistake.


by campskunk on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:32:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: In other words (2.00 / 5)

So we'll put you in the McCain column.  Check.  Got it!


by Caldonia on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:14:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Heh. (2.00 / 1)

You know better, of course; I'm voting for the Democrat. But will everyone else?

Not bloody likely.

But it's going to be Obama versus McCain anyway, so this is simple theoretical discussion; and we can count on you, Caldonia, right?


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:17:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

How so? (2.00 / 6)

More Democrats have voted for Hillary. And in fact, Hillary now has more votes PERIOD. So why must the will of the people be overriden to "coronate" Obama? Think about that.


No way, no how, no McCain! :-)
by atdleft on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:22:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How so? (2.00 / 1)

Heh. Obama leads by 600,000 votes cast in accredited real elections. Soviet-style beauty contests don't count; or can we start adding the Daily Ks reader polls to the totals, too? They have just as much standing as the MI and FL votes, you know.


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:25:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

No... (1.83 / 6)

Because the orange sewer site is NOT a state... Florida & Michigan are! Believe it or not, there are 50 US states... NOT 48. And if Democrats in these two states remain disenfranchised, you might as well just wrap all those electoral votes in a pretty ribbon and give them to John McCain.


No way, no how, no McCain! :-)
by atdleft on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:32:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I see. (2.00 / 1)

So we can put you down as wanting to discourage all those active Democrats on Daily Kos because of the technicality that it's not a state.

You know, like the technicality that neither FL or MI had DNC-approved contests.

By the way, until Florida elects a Democratic SoS, no Dem is going to win that state. Ask Al Gore how that worked out for him.


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:42:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How so? (2.00 / 1)

Florida and Michigan were stripped of their delegates NOT their popular vote.

The popular votes have been certified by the respective states and should stand. I don't even think it would be legal for the DNC to try and strip popular vote.


by americanincanada on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 12:11:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How so? (none / 0)

Well keep in mind that all the caucus states are not counted in the popular vote.  You wouldn't want to take away their right to participate in this process, would you?


by catalysis on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 07:57:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Heh. (2.00 / 5)

That's not what you said above.  And, as always, I will vote for the Democratic nominee.  It wouldn't be the first time I've had to hold my nose.  But I'm a party person, and I vote for the party...always.

Will you be voting for Senator Clinton in November?


by Caldonia on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:23:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

If she's on the ballot? (2.00 / 1)

Of course. I've already voted for her three times here in New York.

But will she be on that ballot? I doubt it.


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:26:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

not all of them (2.00 / 5)

but the "movement" does absolutely have a faction of non thinkers, followers.


For Obama it now becomes: Faith, hope and CHANGE! And the greatest of these is Change!
by TeresaInPa on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:29:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Same as every movement (2.00 / 0)

Clinton also runs a movement of sorts.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:38:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

bullshit (2.00 / 3)

neither she nor her supporters are part of a "movement".


For Obama it now becomes: Faith, hope and CHANGE! And the greatest of these is Change!
by TeresaInPa on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 11:03:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

What no (2.00 / 0)

Hillary for President movement? No dedicated supporters? No Movement?


-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 11:41:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What no (2.00 / 1)

donchaknow, Obama has trademarked the "movement" label /snark

anyone is just sheeple /snark again


by colebiancardi on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 11:47:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: bullshit (none / 0)

Um, aren't movements a good thing?


by catalysis on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 08:01:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Check out (1.20 / 5)

Hillaryis44 or Taylor Marsh. Those people should be hanging around shopping malls with shaved heads and orange robes, distributing the Bhagavad Gita.


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:44:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

enough (2.00 / 3)

branding people just because they don't like Obama.  First you claim victimhood saying you are personally being called infantile.  Then you brand the female candidate as "mommy" and now you are making ridiculous claims about Clinton supporter sites and you claims makes no sense whatsoever.


For Obama it now becomes: Faith, hope and CHANGE! And the greatest of these is Change!
by TeresaInPa on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 11:06:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: enough (2.00 / 3)

I guess PA rattled some doors & windows in the Obama camp, if they are coming out this type of BS.


by colebiancardi on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 11:07:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: enough (2.00 / 1)

Their "sure thing" doesn't seem quite so sure to them now.  I'm "sure" it's all rather disconcerting, because the huffing and puffing and bloviating has reached an ear-piercing pitch.  Poor things.  


by Caldonia on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 11:15:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Sorry to cause you discomfort (2.00 / 1)

I'm sure it must have been a horrible shock when people started voting and Hillary suddenly became not inevitable.

I'm sympathetic. Really, I am.


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 11:26:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Incoherent babble (2.00 / 1)

The objective of this diary is to infantilize Obama supporters.

One point for me.

Hillaryis44 and Taylor Marsh are filled with cultists. There's no other way to describe them.

Second point for me.

The candidate being proposed as a cure for the silliness of those supporting the leading candidate, ergo me, is female. So what do you call a woman being presented as the proper choice for the childish and immature?

Nice, third point for me. You lose.


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 11:23:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Incoherent babble (2.00 / 3)

The object of the diary was not to infantilize Obama supporters, you are doing a great job of that yourself.

You are not ON Hillaryis44 or TaylorMarsh, you are on MyDD.  Deal with where you are, not other sites where you're not posting.  Or better yet, do it there.

And as far as your attempt at a third comment, I would call it a leader and a grown-up.  But obviously you wouldn't, and your mysogonistic and sterotypical values would be crushed if it were otherwise for you.  I guess next your gonna tell us that middle-class white voters don't count either?  I guess you're guy was right about bitter, he was just wrong about the group...it's his followers every time he gets his ass handed to him.

You are 0 for 3, and are outta here. whiff
Come back and try again next time...sport.


He that lives upon hope, will die fasting. -Ben Franklin
by TxDem08 on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 11:50:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Beyond lame. (2.00 / 1)

The objective of this diary is what it is. That you deny it merely illustrates the point. Score: one.

As to cultish Hillary followers, I'm being polite if I only locate them elsewhere. Score: two.

As to misogyny, I'm such a misogynist that I voted for your candidate three times, and every time, she was runningagainst a guy. So there goes that bit of pre-manufactured tripe as well.

Too bad, sport. Now trollrate me some more, because you obviously can't tolerate dissent amidst the bubble, can you?


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 12:05:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What do you want us to think about? (2.00 / 1)

You want us to think about how Obama's legitimate political movement to bring change, transparency, and populism to government is similar to a bunch of spoiled hippie brats that blew up some buildings to protest the Vietnam War?

Okay, let me think.

I'm done thinking.  This diary is a hatchet job and incredibly offensive.  I highly suggest that you delete it.

Why don't we just run the picture of Hillary Clinton raising her hand with her palm out to wave, and run it next to Adolf Hitler's salute?  It would be just as blitheringly unfair.

Think before you post this ridiculous slander.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:19:22 AM EST

Actually... (2.00 / 2)

Why don't we just run the picture of Hillary Clinton raising her hand with her palm out to wave, and run it next to Adolf Hitler's salute?

...there are several YouTubes of that. It's all rightwing frippery, and nobody in their right mind would post it on a blog that professes to be Democratic, but that kind of garbage is out there.


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:23:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Exactly my point (2.00 / 0)

It shouldn't be here, and neither should this.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:27:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Haha... (1.75 / 4)

Is that supposed to be a joke? After all, that kind of stuff gets posted at a certain unnamed orange sewer site 24/7... The same site where the wreck list always fills up with stuff about "the Clintons' tax returns" and how "no progressive will EVER support the Clintons" and how "the Clintons are racists". Maybe a "Clinton = Hitler" video hasn't been posted there yet, but it probably won't take long before something like that is celebrated on the wreck list over there.


No way, no how, no McCain! :-)
by atdleft on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:29:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Okay. (2.00 / 2)

Let's make a bet, you and I.

Go to YouTube and find yourself whatever comes up after a search for 'Hillary, Hitler'. I've done that, it's horrendous.

Then, post that video to Daily Kos and see what happens.

I dare you.


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:33:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Keep in mind that Obama is the (2.00 / 1)

person who has wrecked and destroyed the Democratic party in this campaign:

1) He ran in 2008 after promising not to in 2004

  1. He smeared the Clintons as racist to get the black vote.
  2. He attacked the Bill Clinton presidency -- the longest/best Democratic presidency of the last 50 years.
  3. He failed to deal with Rev. Wright when he had a chance
  4. He assaults Hillary's character constantly with anti-female stereoypes ("periodically down", "calculating", "disingenuous", "monster").  

THAT, my friend, is the true definition of "doing anything to get elected" and "not caring if he destroys the party".


by miker2008 on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 12:04:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Keep in mind that Obama is the (2.00 / 1)

1) How is him running in 2008 after saying that he wasn't destroying the Democratic party?  

2) No, he didn't.  Bill Clinton made some sketchy comments all on his own.

3) He's never "attacked" Bill Clinton's presidency.  He's criticized it a bit, and spoken on a scholarly level about trends that have continued through that presidency and others until now.

4) He gave a historic speech on race in response to Wright.  What more did you want?

5) "Periodically?"  You're knocking him on using a term that denotes a progressive denotation of time?  Just because women have monthly cycles as well?  That's like me complaining that Clinton attacking Obama's experience is racist:

Obama is inexperienced -> children are inexperienced

A male child is a "boy" -> "boy" is a racist term when applied to a black man.

Racist -> Hillary Clinton

As for "calculating", "disingenuous", and "monster," I feel bad for the women you know, if those are words you associate with being female.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:15:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What do you want us to think about? (none / 0)

You know what's funny? Change, transparency, and populism to government is pretty much what that bunch of "spoiled hippy brats that blew up some building..." thought they were after also. Their biggest gripes were with the establishment, the way things were done in Washington, the special interests.
I'm afraid it's not slander at all. History books remind us of the violence, but those times too were times of great hope and wishful thinking as well. Out of that time and that energy came people who worked for change both WITHIN and OUTSIDE the "system".
What you don't see in this video is the energy of the youth of that era - and guess who two of its most visible positive standard bearers are today? --
All we might be saying is -- wait your turn.

by pan230oh on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 06:38:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Movement (1.50 / 2)

Is this what has come to, insinuating Obama supporters as naive as domestic terrorists?

Photobucket


by obamaforprez on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:24:55 AM EST

Obama has domestic terrorists (2.00 / 6)

on his list of people who took him around and helped him get in to Chicago politics.  He has tried to disavow him but was happy to use them when he needed them.  His spiritual mentor is a radical who idealizes Farakhan.  
No one said all his supporters are domestic terrorists. That is a ridiculous claim on your part.   However there is with any movement a time where it falls apart and eats itself alive.  And Obama and many of his supporters think of this as a movement.  And movement politics suck.
For Obama it now becomes: Faith, hope and CHANGE! And the greatest of these is Change!
by TeresaInPa on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:34:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Movement poltics do suck (2.00 / 1)

That Civil Rights movement?  Terrible.

Women's sufferage?  Totally lame.

Abolitionists?  Should've stayed home.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

Movement politics happen when the machinery of our government breaks down.  If you don't believe in movements, then you might as well join the Republican party, because they're totally cool with the way things are.  

Without movement, nobody goes anywhere.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 11:01:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I am pretty sure you (2.00 / 1)

are wrong.

Like in teh civil rights movement. It was not Selma, it was not the boycotts, its was the march, it was not MLK.

No, no...I am sure it was an experienced politician single handedly pushed all those changes.

And now back to reality ;)


-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 11:45:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

nope (2.00 / 1)

none of those were campaigns about a candidate pretending to be a movement, which is what "movement politics" means.


For Obama it now becomes: Faith, hope and CHANGE! And the greatest of these is Change!
by TeresaInPa on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 11:50:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Ah, the McGovern connection (2.00 / 0)

The difference is that other "movement politics" as you call them are about a candidate.  Sure, our candidate is part of it, but this is a movement that started in 2006 when Obama was only a bit player.

The movement is NOT Obama, the movement is liberal progressivism.  The movement is taking back our country from the warmongering, the corruption, and the complacency that has afflicted us for too long.

Obama is capitalizing on the movement, but he isn't the movement himself.  If he fails to become president, we go on.  If, God forbid, something happens to him, we go on.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 12:20:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

If obama betrays us... (none / 0)

we will have our knives honed and ready.

Hillary has already betrayed us...

WE WATCHED YOU, HILLARY. YOU FAILED. YOU FOUGHT ON THE WRONG SIDE. The democrat was still elected. So sorry, you crossed US.


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 01:50:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ah, the McGovern connection (none / 0)

Liberal? What part of NOT advocating FOR universal health care is liberal? How about having an adviser that advocates the privatization of Social Security? Is THAT liberal?

Odd definition of liberal...


by splashy on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 07:49:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Movement (1.62 / 8)

Oh, man, this is rich, Obama now supports domestic terrorists?  Hahaha I love how you concluded that Obama is responsible for Wright's actions.  I love this game where one is guilty by association. With that logic, Hillary Clinton also supports domestic terrorist since Billy pardoned two Weather Underground terrorists.


by obamaforprez on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:46:42 AM EST

troll rated (1.20 / 5)

for lies and hyperbole.  You don't have a single fact straight in this comment.


For Obama it now becomes: Faith, hope and CHANGE! And the greatest of these is Change!
by TeresaInPa on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:53:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

No lies, some hyperbole (2.00 / 0)

Far less severe than what you're peddling here.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 11:02:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

no no (1.00 / 4)

its true.

Bill Clinton pardoned 2 of them.

See, you troll rating without knowing facts.


-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 11:46:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

google it (2.00 / 2)

and get it right.


For Obama it now becomes: Faith, hope and CHANGE! And the greatest of these is Change!
by TeresaInPa on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 11:48:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Right (2.00 / 1)

Because the point is totally invalidated if he only commuted the sentences of th Weathermen, instead of pardoning.

Try to be a useful member of the blog, will you?


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 12:21:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I uprated you because, although (none / 0)

your post was a bit overwrought, I think you are sincere and not a troll.


by miker2008 on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 12:09:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Movement (2.00 / 1)

sure

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linda_Sue_E vans

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_Rosen berg

you would think as a Hillary supporter YOU would be more iformed than us terrorist loving traitors.


by obamaforprez on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 11:06:06 AM EST

Re: The Movement (2.00 / 2)

It's a bit ridiculous to try and tar Obama supporters with the "uninformed" brush. While I am sure there are intelligent supporters on both sides, every exit and straw poll shows that Obama owns the college educated vote. Hillary's base is low-income whites with a high-school diploma or worse. For christ sakes, 15% still think Obama is a Muslim. Call me elitist, but I for one am sick of the lowest-common-denominator being the deciding factor in national politics. If you are deciding who to vote for based on whose TV ads scared you more, I am wholly in favor of stripping your right to vote. It's this kind of pandering that forces the national political dialogue into the realm of "who would you rather drink a beer with?" Only in America is speaking and acting intelligently an impediment to the Presidency.
"We have said since Iowa that this is a race for delegates."
-Howard Wolfson
by belicheat on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 11:38:42 AM EST

ehh... some of ford's ads were about the scare (none / 0)

factor.

They were good ads.

If you choose who to vote for based on how much they look like you... uggh.

I'd rather have a president qualified to drink fermented mare's milk, thanks.n (as that might actually come up diplomatically)


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 01:52:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Movement (none / 0)

Wonderful!  I could not have said it better myself.


Capitalization is the difference between "I had to help my uncle Jack off a horse..." and "I had to help my uncle jack off a horse..."
by igottheblues on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 07:38:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Movement (none / 0)

I know lots of college educated people, and they don't corner the market on common sense or figuring things out. Book smarts aren't everything.

I guess that's why so many that support Obama  think that a health care program without everyone participating will actually work toward universal health care instead of setting us back once again. They don't live in the world of no health insurance, or not good enough insurance to cover the problems that come up.

There are many people that are blocked from going to college because of who they were born to, and where they live. Doesn't