Foreign Policy as a National Priority

A candidate supporter diary for MyDD

Of all the issues facing Americans in this crucial national election none is more compelling than providing a remedy to our international relations and re-framing the debate on 'national security.'  Arguably our present discussion of foreign policy fails to take into account the challenge it presents to our long-term prosperity.  One seldom sees the story presented in the US media but the challenges facing the US in trade, specifically in the competition for energy resources and markets in a rapidly changing global economy, are going to have an enormous impact on our prosperity in coming decades.  And if your priority issues are along the lines of health care reform or other important domestic social initiatives it is perhaps worth considering that these are going to be advanced most reliably or, alternatively, constrained by our performance on this one overriding issue.

It's not just the trillion dollars we have spent on basically nothing in Iraq over the last few years, that is just the tip of the iceberg.  It is the loss to US business of energy related profits and the lost opportunities this foreign policy has created in the reshaping of the global energy economy, for example, as a consequence.  The nascent North-South corridor is a potential threat, an economic shift that would see the bulk of the Gulf's energy moving overland through Russian pipelines to Europe and, possibly, China, with gas and oil moving into these growing markets potentially generating nil profit to US corporations and forcing the US into an increasingly competitive negotiation for these dwindling resources.  Health care and other social reforms, not to mention the enormous investment we will need to make in re-engineering our infrastructure for alternative and green energy are vital issues.  But if there is an erosion of our national prosperity which pays for these programs we will be unable to achieve them.  Just look at the price of fuel today and consider the impact that has on every aspect of our economy, it is money that could be well-spent elsewhere.  

One may debate whether our military and naval investment in Iraq, and the Near East generally, has improved our national security, arguably it hasn't but that's not the point.  Clearly from the perspective of the Gulf states the security situation in their region has been de-stabilised and they are considering looking elsewhere for the kind of guarantees which have seen US protection of supertanker trade routes as the status quo for a generation.  Real 'security' is not having two aircraft-carrier groups in the Persian Gulf but rather not requiring any there in the first place.

Consider, for example, the Russian response to increased tensions over Iran last year, at a time when our attention was directed to an imminent pre-emptive strike on a populous and sovereign nation in the context of our narrative of the 'global war on terror' and security concerns regarding Israel.  Putin, possessing a soul or not, didn't miss the opportunity, travelling to Tehran and crafting the beginnings of a diplomatic and economic agreement in a face-to-face meeting with Khomenei under the aegis of a trans-Caspian accord.  Not to mention stalemating US military activities in the region with the signing of the Declaration:


The declaration signed at the end of the summit covers a wide range of subjects in its 25 articles. The document virtually binds the littoral states into a non-aggression commitment, warns the outsiders to refrain from using the Caspian region soil for military operations or interfering in any other way, supports the right of Iran to pursue nuclear technology for peaceful purposes...

Tehran Summit Unites Caspian States on Major Issues News Central Asia 17 Oct 07

The outcome?  It seems we've been significantly outmanoeuvred by our old Cold War rival and apparently risk missing the point of the real shifts in regional economics and geopolitics in the global economy.

The ramifications of Russia's proposed development of the 'North-South corridor' linking Europe to China overland through continental Russia and the former Soviet Republics are potentially enormous:


It is difficult to wrap one's mind around the enormous potential of the North-South corridor.

If the discovery of the sea routes was the death of the Silk Road, the establishment of North-South corridor could reverse the course of history.

If the transportation time between South Asia and Europe is cut down by eight days and the freight charges are slashed by USD$500 per container, would there be any businessman in South and Central Asia or China who would refuse to use the North-South corridor?

And, it cuts both ways: Would there be any businessman in Europe who would decline to send his cargo through North-South corridor merely on ideological grounds?

The Journal of Turkish Weekly - 18 Oct 07

An initial step at 'breaking in' to this market would be the establishment of the proposed gas pipeline direct from Central Asia, possibly including Iran and other Gulf states, to Europe, and the troubled Nabucco Gas pipeline comes one step closer to feasibility with Russia's diplomatic overtures last October, while we debated the pros and cons of unilateral military action:


TEHRAN, January 22 (RIA Novosti) - Iran could contribute natural gas to the planned Nabucco pipeline to pump Caspian gas to Europe via Turkey, bypassing Russia, the Islamic Republic's foreign minister said on Tuesday.

Speaking in Bulgaria, Manouchehr Mottaki said, as quoted by Iranian media: "The European Union has stated a need to diversify sources and routes of natural gas supplies. Nabucco is one of the possible projects of cooperation between Iran and the EU in the energy sphere."

Iran says it could provide gas for Caspian Nabucco pipeline RIA/Novosti 22 Jan 2008

This is but one example of the kind of economic challenge which is vital to our future prosperity.  There are many others and certainly there are also US corporations and government agencies who are giving these issues their undivided attention but the public debate on 'national security,' by it's very nature, tends to mask these challenges and portray them instead as operational military problems.  Our debt to China is another issue which perhaps in it's own way poses at least as grave a threat to our 'security' as the far more aggressively marketed threat of global terrorism.

The view of our national debate on security and international policy looks very different from outside of the United States, and this perception is widespread among nations who are allies or non-aligned, as this recent British opinion notes:

Though foreign policy is rarely salient in peacetime elections, Americans have been almost persuaded by their president, George Bush, that they are not at peace. To visit America at present is to be reminded of the continuing trauma of post-9/11, of a nation that craves a cohering substitute psychosis for the lifting of the Soviet menace. It is seen in ubiquitous threat alerts, hysterical airport security, the continued acceptance of Guantánamo Bay and even jibes about public figures not wearing the American flag in their buttonhole. A country in so many ways a kaleidoscope of the world is in many ways so different. Above all it is full of soldiers.

Americans still do not travel abroad, and rely on television news for their knowledge of foreign places, which they continue to regard with bizarre suspicion. Hence a world view is lumped in with defence and security in a collective paranoia. And a candidate's stance on foreign policy is a proxy for his or her character.

[...]

Enthusiasts for Obama, more plentiful beyond America's shores than within them, regard him as the most plausible candidate to pilot America to a new and more internationalist haven than this. He has spoken of an endgame to America's hostile relations with the Muslim world and dismisses democratic nation-building in Iraq as "a bunch of happy talk". He says simply: "We cannot bend the world to our will."

Simon Jenkins - Despite Iraq, America's love affair with war runs deep The Guardian 23 Apr 08

When one hears Hillary talk of 'obliterating' Iran, for example, no matter how 'reasonable' the underlying policy may seem in our post-9/11 debate, one can imagine thoughtful heads shaking in concern around the world, among business partners, allies and the non-aligned.  We have a lot to offer the world but we seem to have lost our way in this regard and the trust and affection which we once enjoyed in abundance is in increasingly short supply.  It is time to re-frame our 'national security' debate to take into account what really amounts to 'security,' physically, economically and sustainably, for our nation.



Display:


Re: Foreign Policy as a National Priority (none / 0)

I would be interested to know how Clinton's remark regarding 'obliterating' Iran is being considered here, among her supporters. I've been watching headlines around the world and the comment has raised eyebrows and dropped jaws. We need to be working to repair the damage done by the Bush admin. This is heartbreaking...

London AFP: Lord Mark Malloch-Brown, a former United Nations deputy secretary-general and the foreign office minister responsible for Asia, said of Clinton's comment,  "While it is reasonable to warn Iran of the consequence of it continuing to develop nuclear weapons and what those real consequences bring to its security, it is not probably prudent... in today's world to threaten to obliterate any other country and in many cases civilians resident in such a country."

The National Iranian American Council (NIAC) today denounced Clinton's remark.

The Times of India is weighing in citing "a gradual loss of American leverage and prestige in the region." They go on to say, "Even Bush has been more circumspect addressing such hypothetical questions despite his administrations tough stance on an equally belligerent Iran."

These sentiments are being echoed in papers around the globe. Is this a big deal?


by grasshopper on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:10:39 PM EST

Re: Foreign Policy as a National Priority (2.00 / 1)

It certainly doesn't seem to be helping.  My thinking is that this kind of threat exposes the US to a perception of weakness.  Our experience in Iraq generally has already led to a growing awareness that the ability of the US to 'project' power is finite, and probably a lot less than it was thought to be before we actually did given all the attendant limitations we have all witnessed.

'Talking softly and carrying a big stick' has more geopolitical merit, especially if our perceived strength is leveraged.  We have put our cards on the table and it seems we don't have a particularly strong hand after all.  This may not actually be the case but in the kind of 'asymmetrical' conflict we chose to prosecute it is hard to argue otherwise.


by Shaun Appleby on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:23:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You are SERIOUSLY lying about hat she was saying.. (1.00 / 0)

She was asked, IF A MIDDLE EASTERN COUNTRY ATTACKED ANOTHER COUNTRY WITH NUCLEAR WEAPONS.. what would she do?

Calling your elaborate spin attack for what it is, is really all we can do. Its deceptive, because you don't mention that your God-child, Obama, SAID ESSENTIALLY THE SAME THING, and you are forgetting to clue people in that its BLATANT spin.

IMO, the US military industrial complex is every bit as addicted to the big bucks as the oil companies, the drug companies, the insurance companies, etc.

Obviously, they are behind Obama, because he does not want any kind of AUDITING of any of the misadventures of the last seven years, and plus, he's promised to raise the military budget by 10% WITH NO STRINGS ATTACHED..

I'm sorry, it doesnt pass the smell test for me.


Universal healthcare IS a core Democratic value
Comprehensively cover 100%, not only the healthiest 80%
by architek on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 12:41:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You are SERIOUSLY lying about hat she was sayi (2.00 / 1)

As I've said elsewhere, even in this very thread, I basically agree with the idea of extending a nuclear deterrence agreement to Israel on first principles.  The devil is in the detail and we could have a long discussion on the subject because it seems to be widely misunderstood and misrepresented.  Consider the issue of 'credibility,' for example.

I have posted this link elsewhere but perhaps you should read something along the lines of Extended Deterrence: The U.S. Credibility Gap in the Middle East, if you haven't already, before potentially exposing an embarrassing lack of understanding of the underlying issues, especially the 'credibility' of such a deterrent and the complexity of the diplomatic context it requires.

Then we could have a sensible discussion on the subject, though from your tone I wonder if that is your intention.  For you to make accusations of a spin attack and then bloviate about my motives and integrity seems a pretty dismal start, frankly.  I definitely take strong exception to Hillary's 'obliterate' remark but I don't think that necessarily demonstrates partisanship or lack of a fair approach to the issues she has raised with her proposals.


by Shaun Appleby on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 01:19:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You are SERIOUSLY lying about hat she was sayi (2.00 / 2)

Israel has nuclear weapons. Hundreds of them. They developed them at a nuclear facility that was built with US assistance in the Negev desert. US inspections were part of the deal but the facility used to enrich fissionable material was concealed from the inspectors through innovative tactics such as bricking up elevator wells. All of this occurred in the early '60s.

Hence where is the need for a collective security imperative? Israel has nuclear weapons while Syria and Iran have none. Has anyone examined why these two countries governments feel like they can't protect their populations from attack? Possibly because Israel has nuclear weapons. US and Israeli government policies churn the arms race in the region but this aspect is seemingly never discussed in this country.

Hillary Clinton is talking about- in her messaging to the Iranian regime- another massive preventive war just like Iraq was. This is madness. The Iranian government has obligations under the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty that they signed and ratified. Any abrogation of this treaty must go through the United Nations security council rather than a unilateral US posture of dubious validity.

 


by wengler on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:08:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You are SERIOUSLY lying about hat she was sayi (none / 0)

You are correct that there are mutual obligations under the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.  It's a start.


by Shaun Appleby on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 07:30:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Israel's OWN nuclear arsenal - should THEY fight? (none / 0)

I am wondering, is the US expected to use up our arsenal BEFORE or AFTER Israel defends herself?

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/israel/nuk e/


Universal healthcare IS a core Democratic value
Comprehensively cover 100%, not only the healthiest 80%
by architek on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 11:29:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Declassified US docs on Israeli nuclear program! (none / 0)

This looks pretty interesting:

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAE BB189/index.htm

Israel Crosses the Threshold

Senior Nixon Administration Officials Considered Confronting Israel over Nuclear Weapons in 1969 but President Nixon Declined, Deciding that Washington Could Live with an Undeclared Israeli Bomb, According to Newly Declassified Documents and a Study in the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists Posted Today

National Security Archive Electronic Briefing Book No. 189

For more information contact:
Avner Cohen, 202/489-6282 or
National Security Archive, 202/994-7000

Posted - April 28, 2006


Universal healthcare IS a core Democratic value
Comprehensively cover 100%, not only the healthiest 80%
by architek on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 11:52:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

We have bingo! (2.00 / 2)

I would add that the US also has solemn obligations (Article VI) under the NPT to which it is a party that it has flagrantly violated for decades and this, for many reasons, is a major stimulus for nations such as Iran to pursue a nuclear capacity, on top of the threat, from their vantage point, that is posed by Israel from both conventional and unconventional weapons.


"We live entangled in webs of endless deceit, often self-deceit, but with a little honest effort, it is possible to extricate ourselves from them". -- NC
by Trond Jacobsen on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 08:19:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You are SERIOUSLY lying about hat she was sayi (none / 0)

Just to expand on your comment:


First, she referred to Iran's program as "nuclear weapons program." Iran has repeatedly denied that it intends to develop nuclear weapons, IAEA hasn't found any evidence to believe otherwise and America's own intelligence has been self-reversing and inconsistent at best. In light of these facts, there is no basis for her to adopt Bush's and AIPAC's terminology and refer to the program as a "weapons" program.

Secondly, Iran has signed the Non-Proliferation Treaty. Under this treaty, it has the right to enrich uranium for peaceful purposes. So far, that's what Iran has been doing. If Iran's exercise of its rights to enrich uranium is unacceptable to the U.S., why did it sit aside and allow Iran to become an NPT member in the first place? It's like giving someone a driver's license and then protest if she drives, offer to give them a ride instead and complain if she insists on driving herself. The U.S. cannot allow countries to become members of NPT and then oppose their exercise of their rights under the NPT. So then what is the point?

Hillary Clinton's comment also highlights another flaw in the continuous international nuclear non-dialogue. While the intelligence on Iran's nuclear program is inconclusive, intelligence on Israel's possession of at least 300 nuclear weapons is conclusive. There is a wealth of information on the topic, the stream of which started in 1986 when Mordechai Vanunu, an Israeli nuclear technician revealed the details of Israel's nuclear program to the British press. Hillary Clinton and neo-conservatives warn of a nuclear arms race in the Middle East. The arms race has already started, and Israel was the country that started it.

But perhaps the most tragic part of all of this is that Israel isn't even a member of NPT. Yes, the United States has allowed one country that isn't a member of NPT to have nuclear weapons and simultaneously wants to stop a NPT member from exercising its legitimate right to enrich uranium, which for all we know is for peaceful purposes. "Hypocrisy" is the word.

Sam Sedaei - When Hillary Clinton's Saber Rattles, America Loses Huffington Post 25 Apr 08

While this piece discounts intention of the Iranians to develop a nuclear weapons capability, which their current accelerated missile program would seem to contradict, this internationalist context of the issue consistently fails to get the kind of reasonable mainstream media attention it deserves.


by Shaun Appleby on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 07:01:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Foreign Policy as a National Priority (none / 0)

The question was about US response to a nuclear attack on Israel.  I wonder how many of these people actually understand the context.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:47:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Foreign Policy as a National Priority (2.00 / 1)

I'm guessing we all do.  That's another subject but a compelling one.  I don't oppose the offer of a nuclear deterrent to Israel in respect of a nuclear attack on them by Iran, incidentally, but would argue that was the de facto condition in the first place and that there are always issues of 'credibility' with formal offers of such a deterrent, as our Cold War experience convincingly has demonstrated.  I also have strong issues with the rhetoric which Hillary employed on one occasion to express her policy, as you might understand.

Good to see you posting here again, by the way.


by Shaun Appleby on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:54:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Foreign Policy as a National Priority (2.00 / 1)

Israeli policy on this(though they won't admit having nuclear weapons officially) is called the "Samson option". If attacked with nuclear weapons they will target the entire middle east with their much larger arsenal.

While Syria and Iran are looking for military parity against Israel, it is severely unlikely that they are looking to destroy it with nuclear weapons. But in the way this argument is always constructed, military opponents of Israel are never allowed to seek a way out of this US-Israeli hegemony. So they turn to supporting asymmetrical warfare and the security situation deteriorates even more.


by wengler on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:18:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

"Mutual Assured Destruction" ? (none / 0)

Thats what that sounds like...

I suppose they already have a precedent..


Universal healthcare IS a core Democratic value
Comprehensively cover 100%, not only the healthiest 80%
by architek on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 11:55:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Foreign Policy as a National Priority (none / 0)

One reason why I believe formalising a deterrence treaty with Israel might make sense is that it would potentially relieve us of the massive counter-strike policy you refer to and perhaps make it possible for Israel to adopt a nuclear posture of 'flexible response.'

One of the issues which makes normalisation of relations between Israel and other states difficult is the de facto acknowledgement of their nuclear capability but persistent formal denial.  It is the  'elephant in the room' and inhibits rational discussion of issues relating to Israel's capability, in Israel, here and the UN.  If we were going to offer Israel a deterrent agreement one would expect a formal disclosure of Israel's nuclear capability and a lively discussion on their posture.


by Shaun Appleby on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:12:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Just for the Record (none / 0)

The response to her comments, as Grasshopper pointed out, has been genuinely alarming:

Presidential contender Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton's vow to "obliterate" Iran, presumably with nuclear weapons, if it attacked Israel on her watch was duly noted in the U.S.

[UPDATE: To see a video and full transcript of the comment, click here.]

Jaded American insiders shrugged off the remark as typical campaign season bluster, filed away with myriad other exaggerations and gaffes.

But it prompted shock overseas as well as headlines from Bulgaria to New Zealand.

The statement triggered alarm bells in the Persian Gulf, which would likely suffer the consequences of any war between Iran and the U.S. In a harshly worded editorial, the Saudi-based daily Arab News trashed Clinton's comment today as insane:

This is the foreign politics of the madhouse. It demonstrates the same doltish ignorance that has distinguished Bush's foreign relations. It offers only violence where there should be negotiations and war where there could be peace. At a stroke, Clinton demonstrated to everyone in this region that if she were the next occupant of the White House, Iraq-like death and destruction would be the order of the day.

The paper generally stays true to the line of the Saudi government, which is a key U.S. ally. But criticism of the remark also came from even friendlier quarters.

In the United Kingdom, which has been a steadfast U.S. ally in Iraq and Afghanistan as well as on the issue of Iran, Lord Mark Malloch-Brown, a ranking British diplomat, criticized Clinton's remark as gratuitous:


While it is reasonable to warn Iran of the consequence of it continuing to develop nuclear weapons and what those real consequences bring to its security, it is not probably prudent ... in today's world to threaten to obliterate any other country and in many cases civilians resident in such a country.

Borzou Daragahi - IRAN: Hillary's threat to "obliterate" in war reverberates LAT 24 Apr 08

Surely you are not suggesting that there is any redeeming quality in her choice of words?  No-one is arguing that there isn't a reasonable underlying issue worthy of discussion, namely offering a nuclear deterrent assurance to Israel but what a counter-productive way to go about articulating it.  If Obama had done something like that he would be roundly criticised, and rightly so.


by Shaun Appleby on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 06:40:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Oil, Water, Food. Who will (2.00 / 1)

control those for the next 100 years? Doesn't seem like we will at this point. While we've been screwing around the world has been moving past us.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:40:22 PM EST

If we had any brains, we would develop alternative (none / 0)

energy sources to oil, instead of suppressing them because we want to 'control' everything.

While we do that, huge swatches of the US will become nonviable economically because of the cost of oil.

Why did the government encourage the destruction of the mass transit in the 50s? What were they thinking?


Universal healthcare IS a core Democratic value
Comprehensively cover 100%, not only the healthiest 80%
by architek on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 11:58:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Thank you for posting this... (2.00 / 2)

It is well past the time for us to have a serious dialogue on foreign policy.


If you follow history with a long enough arc, things always get better, and the truth always prevails...Gandhi
by SevenStrings on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:44:20 PM EST

And as a follow on, I would like to add.. (2.00 / 2)

We do things for 3 kinds of reasons: [1] historical (we have always done things that way, and a habit is hard to break) [2] moral (it is the right thing to do) & [3] strategic/tactical (it is not the right thing, and it is different from our previous actions, but gives us a strategic or tactical advantage)

US foreign policy has been a lot of historical, even more strategic/tactical and very few instances of moral (Berlin airlift, AIDS drugs in Africa, food aid under PL-480).  This would be a bad thing

Unfortunately, the foreign policies of other countries is almost always historical and strategic/moral ~ the few instances of moral foreign policymaking in the US is enough to earn it plenty of goodwill in the world.

This is inspite of the Iraq war, and threats to obliterate Iran!!


If you follow history with a long enough arc, things always get better, and the truth always prevails...Gandhi
by SevenStrings on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 12:23:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And as a follow on, I would like to add.. (2.00 / 1)

Thanks for a very thoughtful comment.  Trond Jacobson posted this recently and I thought it gave a disturbing insight into the form our post-war foreign policy has generally taken:


In the face of this situation [long and violent struggles in Far East Asia including the embrace of the Soviet Union by China and India] we would be better off to dispense now with a number of the concepts which have underlined our thinking with regard to the Far East. We should dispense with the aspiration to "be liked" or to be regarded as the repository of a high-minded international altruism. We should stop putting ourselves in the position of being our brothers' keeper and refrain from offering moral and ideological advice. We should cease to talk about vague and--for the Far East--unreal objectives such as human rights, the raising of the living standards, and democratization. The day is not far off when we are going to have to deal in straight power concepts. The less we are then hampered by idealistic slogans, the better.

George Kennan - Policy Planning Staff 23 memo (28 Feb 1948) from Etzold and Lewis Gaddis, Containment: Documents on American policy and strategy 1945-1950, (New York Columbia U Press, 1978)

This is arguably 'realism' but it doesn't seem to be particularly attractive as a national ethos on foreign policy.  I can see the advantages of 'realism' in the context of our present foreign policy in that at least the assessment of our actions was taken with level-headed pragmatism if not moral responsibility.  We seem to have abandoned all notion of consequences with the Bush administration's ideological quest for 'nation-building' and the virtues of unilaterally projected of power.  It has been a dismal failure.

I guess my position is that we have strayed so far from reason that even 'realism' would be a step in the right direction.  But I share your aspiration for a more inspiring vision for the future and a foreign policy that dared to confront genocide and famine with as much enthusiasm as it sought profit and influence.  I think that would be a great investment in the future irrespective of the short-term liabilities it would entail.


by Shaun Appleby on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 01:53:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Realism is not real (2.00 / 1)

when it is based on strategic/tactical goals, and is devoid of a moral compass.  

Think of all that the US has accomplished.  How much of that was done with just strategic and/or tactical goals in mind.  Absent a moral compass, the strategic and tactical plans are quickly rendered impotent.

I would submit that the Iraq war was a failure not because it was poorly planned and executed, but because it was devoid of any moral compass.  I would submit that Gulf war 1 was a success because it did (to liberate Kuwait).

As a young boy, I heard about the Berlin airlift (and similar stories), and decided that the US was a country worth admiring.  As an adult, I read about the coup in Hawaii, the massacre of the Nez Perce Indians, and am less than impressed.

That is my only complaint against realism!!


If you follow history with a long enough arc, things always get better, and the truth always prevails...Gandhi
by SevenStrings on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:48:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Realism is not real (2.00 / 1)

Well I agree with that philosophically, and in the spirit of your signature line which expresses a belief I share.  It's just that the arc of history sometimes tramples on the national aspirations, or self-deceit, of certain peoples which is an outcome I would prefer Americans could avoid.

As I said I prefer 'realism' because it demands a rational assessment of the situational strengths, weaknesses, opportunities and threats in international affairs and ignores domestic political considerations which I believe is our failure at this point, and a bad habit we will learn to look back on with considerable regret.

But I would love to see the emergence of a 'conscious realism' which understands that our long-term interests in international affairs is premised on the kind of things, like the Marshall Plan, which you have mentioned.  I would be a willing participant in that.  To see US soldiers in uniform saving lives in Darfur, for example, and restoring order without geopolitical advantage would be an epiphany.  I just can't see us doing it, yet, without unlearning so much that we have grown to expect.  And the world would need some time to trust us, but it seems exactly the kind of thing we need to do to restore our reputation in the world at large and in our own body politic.  And we would be forgiven our missteps too it our intentions were respected.

I'm all for it.


by Shaun Appleby on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:14:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I agree with what you said... (none / 0)

And I am really curious now.

I have seen your comments on how you were in Kabul when the Soviets entered, and how you crossed the Khyber pass on a bus, and walked across to Pakistan.

I have seen one comment from you where you said you now work in Australia (I think).

It seems like you have seen quite a bit of the world.. a lot more than I have.  And it is obvious that your worldviews are shaped by that, to a large extent.

What exactly drove you towards this ?


If you follow history with a long enough arc, things always get better, and the truth always prevails...Gandhi
by SevenStrings on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 12:27:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I agree with what you said... (none / 0)

Yeah, I live in Northern NSW and have been resident in Australia for twenty-four years.  I guess I went exploring the world and never quite made it back.  My political heart is still with the US, there are about six million expatriate US citizens and I consider them an overlooked national treasure, it is important to at least consider a broader world view to US politics and I am hoping that is something I can help contribute to these forums.


by Shaun Appleby on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 08:59:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Shaun & SevenStrings, I'm impressed (2.00 / 1)

   You both just got my vote for nomination to the State Dept. Morality should be the basis of "Realism", insofar as the principles we as a nation advocate should apply to all other nations equally.I think any realistic approach to global relations has to be predicated on the acknowledgement everyone on Earth is entitled to life, liberty, and (at least) the pursuit of happiness. If I've read you right, the important question is: How do we square our moral obligations to Humanity (aptly framed in the Constitution), with our legitimate economic and security concerns? IMHO, the only way we can do this is by making the case, globally, that we are working towards economic/political equality across ALL national boundries. Shaun makes the excellent (and too often overlooked) point that as long as economic (ie-Energy) policy is treated as an adjunct to foreign policy, and not it's bedrock, we'll continue to squander resources dealing with symptoms, and not address the real problems.


by Kordo on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:07:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Shaun & SevenStrings, I'm impressed (none / 0)

Well perhaps this is the 'seventh string' which Terpandros added to the ancient lyre of the Greeks, anticipating the Christian, and modern, heptatonic scale.


by Shaun Appleby on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:38:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

JacobsEn (none / 0)

Norwegian, not Swedish.

Kennan's audience in the memo, of course, were other national security planners.  The general public was to receive a steady diet of 'human rights, the raising of the living standards, and democratization' pablum.


"We live entangled in webs of endless deceit, often self-deceit, but with a little honest effort, it is possible to extricate ourselves from them". -- NC
by Trond Jacobsen on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 08:24:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Ah (none / 0)

I was wondering who Trond Jacobsen was... nice to meet you =)

I am going to keep an eye out for your diaries from now on!!


If you follow history with a long enough arc, things always get better, and the truth always prevails...Gandhi
by SevenStrings on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 12:29:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: JacobsEn (none / 0)

Apologies, I certainly meant no slight or international confusion by my faux pas when citing you.  I have read your thoughtful and well informed posts with interest for quite some time and look forward to more of the same.


by Shaun Appleby on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:56:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

No need (none / 0)

No need for apologies.  It is kind of a Scandinavian, inside baseball, rivalry type thing.  I was joking.  But do make a note that I am Norwegian, grew up in the states.  Not a Swedish ancestor to be found.  Thank goodness.


"We live entangled in webs of endless deceit, often self-deceit, but with a little honest effort, it is possible to extricate ourselves from them". -- NC
by Trond Jacobsen on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 07:42:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No need (none / 0)

Noted.


by Shaun Appleby on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 09:00:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Foreign Policy as a National Priority (none / 0)

You outline the brutal geopolitical realities a post George Bush America faces that not even Obama, dressed in his most attractive multicultural diplomatic drag, is going to solve as easily as Andrew Sullivan would have us believe.  Our superpower is being rapidly downsized as we speak and the next president will have the unhappy and delicate task of breaking the news to the American populace while keeping some sort of game face. I will say, though I disliked her economic policies, Margaret Thatcher skillfully led Britain through its post-empire phase, with just the right mix of pragmatism and realpolitik without totally surrendering Britain's national dignity.  I happen to think Hillary Clinton is better suited to the task of ruthlessly and judiciously guarding what remains of American interests while holding out the hand of diplomacy. In any case whoever wins should start reading up on how to manage the downsizing and decline of America's superpower status.  The French demographer, Emmanuel Todd's book called "After The Empire" should surely be on the new president's reading list.  


by superetendar on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 01:17:16 AM EST

Re: Foreign Policy as a National Priority (2.00 / 1)

I tend to agree, in a qualified way, with your assessment if not your conclusions.  In Obama's case I get the impression he genuinely believes that we have not yet reached the zenith of our ascendancy, and I tend to agree with him.  We have just had a bad decade.

There is ample evidence of his attitude on this.  As for Hillary I personally feel the Clintons were always more comfortable with domestic policy and politics, my most damning criticism of her remains a tendency I perceive of letting domestic politics trump foreign policy.  The AUMF vote and Kyl/Lieberman are, to me, examples of this.  The latest remark about Iran is a little harder to place in context but seems like more of the same.  I would hate to think it was the result of some micro-poll on the Jewish vote, for example, or some other demographic wrinkle.  I am happy to discuss the pros and cons of nuclear proliferation and deterrence, and it is a debate we need to have, but her choice of words was ill-advised and unfortunate.

Having said that, though, I'm not sure our situation is quite as dire as you seem to think.  It is just that our current trajectory is decidedly in the wrong direction.  I think Obama would be inclined to reverse this more dramatically, I have been watching him closely on these issues and all the evidence is there for those who are willing to see it.


by Shaun Appleby on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 01:33:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Foreign Policy as a National Priority (none / 0)

I must say, I admire Obama's lack of urgency and I agree the situation is not critical, but the glide path downwards is apparent, surely the declining value of the dollar and its complementary economic ills tells us so.

With respect to the Clinton perspective on domestic vis-a-vis foreign policy, I have always admired the fact that both Clintons have understood that local and global are conflated in a 21st century political economy. For example to repair George Bush's foreign policy havoc, we are going to have to spread a lot more "make-up, make-nice" money around the globe in the form of foreign aid, Obama recognizes this, Clinton does too, but Clinton understands that Americans are not going to countenance increased foreign aid unless our own living/economic conditions are seen to demonstrably improve. The next president will have to be seen to be exhaustively working for our national interest before global interests. It's not a matter of either local or global, but a matter of being PERCIEVED by the populace as having the national interest firmly fixed. Without the perception and confidence that out national priorities come first,no amount of foreign policy efforts will be appreciated or sustainable. The Clintons understand this natural order.

I heard Hillary Clinton's Iran nuclear formulation on Keith Olberman, I note too that she won the Jewish vote in Pennslyvania. I thought the timing shrewd politics. Presumeably the awfully sophisticated diplomatic corps in Washington D.C. understood it was politics too and reported back home in that vein. There was a serious side to her Middle East nuclear umbrella formulation too, which I agree deserves serious and thorough debated. Afterall do we want a shakey Saudi Arabian monarchy developing nuclear weapons? I thought too it was a tacit realistic assessment, (finally) that Iran would likely have nuclear weapons capapcity in the end and there is nothing we can do about it militarily expect develop a deterance strategy. What I admire about the Clintons is that they have always been very quick to see present realities and have been quite adept at choosing the least bad options. Choosing the least harmful options, that is my definition of foreign policy in this sticky complicated world of ours.


by superetendar on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 09:38:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama's 'lack of urgency' is dangerous.. (none / 0)

because it amounts to denial and procrastination of the sort we can't afford. Its basically like a company that has had management embezzle a very large quantity of money. The audit is coming, and the longer we put it off, the greater the chance of the real culprits getting away with it and managing to hide their ill gotten gains so thoroughly that they will be unrecoverable.

Right now we still have a chance at recovering some of that money.

I can see why Obama is getting so much support from big donors, they have a lot to lose under Clinton's austerity. much more than what the other 99% of us have to gain.


Universal healthcare IS a core Democratic value
Comprehensively cover 100%, not only the healthiest 80%
by architek on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 12:07:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's 'lack of urgency' is dangerous.. (none / 0)

Obama's good intentions aside, his governing skills amount to privileging style over substance, so he thinks it is vulgar to run when one can walk effortlessly at a languid pace to solve these looming crises that are at our door. You are right, of course, there has to be a reckoning and settling of accounts, Obama's lack of urgency sends the wrong signals to corporate interests and certainly does nothing to take advantage of the current economic crisis keep the pressure on for significant reform. I will say John Edwards always feared this about Obama's talent for artful inaction posing as deep thought and cautious calculation.


by superetendar on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 01:01:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Foreign Policy as a National Priority (none / 0)

Again I agree with you on several points but draw diametrically opposed conclusions.  Yes, it is certainly time to consider a nuclear capable Iran, though perhaps too soon to give up on non-proliferation in the region.

I guess from my point of view the 'conflation' of foreign and domestic politics is a weakness, not a strength, and what you consider 'shrewd' seems like part of the problem.  I think it is time to treat the electorate more respectfully, not as a crowd that must be swayed with 'perceptions' and a pot pourri of national and global interests in a 'sticky, complicated' world.  Putting the global before the national is exactly the subject of the diary and it seems high time to present this issue to the public with a clear articulation of the long-term benefits and the short-term costs.  I believe the people are wise enough to understand such a view if presented coherently by a new administration.  And a coherent set of new international policies would perhaps cut the Gordian Knot of ambivalence which the electorate has about our future in the global community.

This is why I am an Obama supporter, I think he has the ability to do this.  It's time for a refresher course in international relations and an unambiguous message to the rest of the world that 'we're back.'

Thanks, however, for a thoughtful discussion on these points.  It's nice to take a break from the food-fights of partisan blogging and engage respectfully on the issues.


by Shaun Appleby on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:55:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Foreign Policy as a National Priority (2.00 / 1)

A well meant post about significant issues. However, as the threads show even the mighty blogosphere has bought the Bushist plan for our energy future.

There can be no bigger mistake.

We need to walk drive away from our geopolitically dangerous addiction to ME oil.

Fortunately we have...

Right. Now. The. Technology. To. Do. Just. That.

Google 'The Solar Grand Plan' and see just what we here in America can do if we get our heads out of the vacuous debate between Barry and Sister Beezlebub.

Pull yer heads out folks. The future can be ours without oil for energy dependence.
.


by Pericles on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 01:38:55 AM EST

Re: Foreign Policy as a National Priority (none / 0)

Let's do it.  My point is merely that we have to insure our global solvency in the process.  And even in the event of independence of foreign energy the relationship we create with the 'global community' will still be a determinant of our prosperity.  Energy was merely the most immediate and compelling example, as the current price of gas aptly demonstrates.


by Shaun Appleby on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 01:58:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Foreign Policy as a National Priority (none / 0)

EXCELLENT diary. I would rec you, but you got front-paged!

Thank you for bringing this up, as you have helped calm down my blood-pressure after reading TD's thinly veiled "concern" (hate).


NO 100 year WAR, NO McConnell run Senate, & NO GOP-led Supreme Court!!!
by Veteran75 on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 06:10:20 AM EST

Re: Foreign Policy as a National Priority (2.00 / 1)

This was an excellent diary.  I agree that the tenor of our relations internationally must change, and that the "saber rattling" should cease.  The cold war paranoia which escalated an arms race led to concerns about the rise of the military-industrial complex.  

This was envisioned by C. Wright Mills in his book, The Power Elite,(1957) where he predicted corporate might that could overpower our own government, own and control the media, and be subject to little oversight or rule of law.  Mills wrote about the potential erosion of checks and balances which preserve democracy.

NAFTA and Unbridled capitalism have combined to create corporate entities that are now well capable of ignoring or overriding U.S. law, and which has a vested interest in subverting democracy, human rights, and environmental law in other nations, while eroding our ability to protect our own environment, citizens, and freedoms.

The presence of this factor in our national elections, where corporate money and the presence of corporate interests actively running campaigns as well as distorting Democratic efforts in our media has never been more evident; or more dangerous.

This election may be the last opportunity to peaceably wrest control of government away from giant corporate international monopolies.  Erosion of workers rights in the U.S. as well as the public education system is creating a population that is increasingly vulnerable to manipulation into voting against its own interests with media canards.


by URKnot on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 07:15:17 AM EST

Re: Foreign Policy as a National Priority (none / 0)

Good to hear from you on this point, let's hope Mills was slightly less prophetic than you suggest but nonetheless we have been warned by past presidents from Eisenhower to, more recently, Carter on the nature of the challenges that face us and with such august advice in our corner it would be unwise to disregard it.  We do so at our own peril.


by Shaun Appleby on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 07:28:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Foreign Policy as a National Priority (none / 0)

On Earth Day, I bought a new car.

The good news is that, since my old car had been running for a good 6 months with the "Check engine" light on, I'm probably fouling the air less than I was the day before.


by tarunkjuyal on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 08:11:18 AM EST


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