Turning the Tide - Together

Hillary defied the odds and the pundits and went on to win Pennsylvania by double digits yesterday.  Sure she had a significant lead a few weeks ago, but that was before the media, the press and the DNC hot-shots (Donna Brazile) and leading members of Congress joined Obama's full court press in a failed attempt to force her out of this campaign before millions of voters got to have their say, or before we got to her strongest group of supporters in Pennsylvania. Many of those voters are working stiffs who can relate to her message of rebuilding our economy and restoring the strength of the middle class (translated... jobs, jobs, jobs, jobs and more jobs).  They're hurting and they know she's the one who'll deliver on the issues they care about.

It was also before she was outspent by her opponents by a margin of 3 to 1 - by $7 million on tv ads alone.  This on top of the fact that he had 6 weeks to whittle away - wipe out her lead as the supposed front-runner.  He even used massively negative mailers, radio ads and even TV ads.  

Guys this win last night has put her in the lead in the popular vote.  Thanks to her victory in Pennsylvania yesterday, Hillary now leads by approximately 122,000 in the popular vote when Florida and Michigan are included in the count.  After last night's decisive victory in Pennsylvania, more people have voted for Hillary than any other candidate, including Sen. Obama.

Estimates vary slightly, but according to Real Clear Politics, Hillary has received 15,095,663 votes to Sen. Obama's 14,973,720, a margin of more than 120,000 votes. ABC News reported this morning that "Clinton has pulled ahead of Obama" in the popular vote.  Check it out...

I've been wondering something for a while and it looks like the press and the media are starting to (finally!) ask about it too.  I know a few folks have posted things about this already today but I found this AP article interesting - here's an excerpt...

Analysis: Obama still struggling to win key constituencies

Why can't Barack Obama close the deal?

snip

The loss, despite a massive cash infusion and robust campaign presence in the state, underscores the persistent problems he's had winning over many of the voters who form the traditional Democratic party base.

While the Illinois senator remains overwhelmingly popular among blacks, affluent voters and young people, other groups key to building the Democratic coalition remain elusive.

Clinton bested him among white, blue-collar voters by a margin of 69 percent to 30 percent in Pennsylvania, similar to her showing in Ohio last month. She also won older voters, women and whites and improved her margins among white, non-Catholic men.

She not only defied the odds, but she took counties she wasn't expected to be competitive in.  Philadelphia was a real stronghold for Obama and I'm sure he was super-confident of taking the city and surrounding communities.  Well of the 7 counties around Philly, Hillary took 5.  But significant margins I might add.

Last night was great.  She defied them all and won and then - once the talking heads declared her the winner - her website fired up like never before.  Over 60,000 people logged on and sent her whatever they could.  $5, $25, $50, $100, $250, $1,000 and yeah - even $2,300.  Couples teamed up and each donated the max.  Guys all this has added up to over $10 million - that's how much has been donated between 10:00 last night and 2:30 this afternoon.

Folks I'm seeing people maxing out their donations not just for the primary fight - but for the general election as well.  That's how much faith Hillary's supporters have in her winning the nomination.

Hillary was at a rally in Indianapolis earlier today.  She said that together, she, Bill and Chelsea had visited that city 50 times now.  They may have been outraised by her opponent but what they can't match in $ they can make up for in shoe-leather (I love that phrase - it sounds so like the Midwestern and old-style, one on one politics that I grew up on).  

Over the course of the day I picked up a few points regarding Hillary's surge in fundraising and success - all a result of her victory in PA yesterday.  The campaign put out a memo first thing this morning with a sort of a round-up of what went down in PA...

The voters in Pennsylvania have spoken. America is listening. And the tide is turning.

By providing fresh evidence that Hillary is the candidate best positioned to beat John McCain in the fall, the Pennsylvania primary is a turning point in the nominating contest.  

Despite making an unprecedented financial investment in his Pennsylvania campaign, including millions on negative ads in the closing days of the race, Sen. Obama again failed to win a state that will be vital to a Democratic victory in November and spurred new questions about his ability to beat John McCain.  No candidate has ever had more resources or enjoyed the kind of momentum that Sen. Obama had in Pennsylvania.

With concerns about the economy paramount, voters decided that Sen. Clinton was the candidate they trusted most to deal with job loss, the housing crisis and health care.

And with both candidates under the microscope at the same time for the first time, Hillary took more than a few punches and came out stronger while Sen. Obama emerged weaker as voters learned more about him.   The exit polls clearly show that Sen. Clinton gained strength in the final days when the campaign was most engaged.  

The reason for the Clinton comeback is clear: voters want a candidate who will stand strong for them and work to create a better future.

STRONG ON ECONOMY: Pennsylvania turned on which candidate made the better case for fixing the economy.  Exit polls show voters viewed Hillary more favorably on the economy - her leadership resonated across the heartland of Pennsylvania.  Those who want change in the economy voted overwhelmingly for Hillary.  

A DECISIVE VICTORY: According to exit polls, Hillary won voters most concerned about the economy by 16 points (58-42) and union households by 18 points (59-41).  She won those with incomes between 100K and 150K by 20 points (60-40); white women by 32 points (66-34) and Catholics by 38 points (69-31).  She won those who decided on the last day (59-41), the last three days (58-42) and the last week (54-46).

SEN. OBAMA PLAYED TO WIN & LOST: Sen. Obama played to win Pennsylvania outright, outspending the Clinton camp by a 3 to 1 margin while sharply attacking Sen. Clinton on the stump and in television, radio, and direct mail pieces.  He understood what was at stake for him in Pennsylvania, had six full weeks to make his case, went for a knockout at the end and came up short.  Sen. Obama's failure to do well raises questions about his ability to win the large, swing states that Democrats need to win in November.

HRC WILL WIN IN NOVEMBER:  Democrats must win the large swing states to beat John McCain in the fall, but Sen. Obama has struggled in states like Ohio, Florida, and Pennsylvania.  In addition, Hillary's voters form the coalition needed for Democratic success in the fall battleground states: women, Hispanics, older voters, working class voters and Catholics. Sen. McCain is stronger than a typical Republican normally is among these groups while Sen. Obama has proven weaker among them. Hillary is also most likely to hold traditionally Democratic states and poised to expand the electoral map in the Southwest while also flipping a few traditionally GOP states like Arkansas.

OUR VICTORY HAS RE-ENERGIZED OUR CAMPAIGN & OUR GRASSROOTS:  Sen. Obama may have outspent us 3 to 1 in Pennsylvania, but Hillary's strong supporters kept her in it. As news of Sen. Clinton's victory spread, we received more donations at www.hillaryclinton.com and more new online contributors than after our wins in Ohio and Texas.  In fact, this was our best night ever for online fundraising.

I'll add one more guys...

I signed up as a HillRaiser nearly a year ago and up until recently, I've been too shy to ask for donations on Hillary's behalf.  I crept up over the $4600 target and was able to attend a reception a month or two ago.  My tally sat at just over $11,000 yesterday and by the time I got home from the phone bank and logged on last night, it'd reached over $17,000.  Now it's over $18,000 and still climbing.  People are really responding to Hillary's win by putting their money where their heart is.  They know that if she's going to compete in those upcoming states, she's going to need our help and then some.

Take a look at an email she sent out to us this afternoon...

This campaign is your campaign, and the victory we celebrated last night is your victory.

Now, thanks to you, the tide is turning in this race. We never stopped believing in one another, never doubted that we could count on each other. You didn't quit, and when I'm president, I promise I won't quit on you.

Now with the next critical contests right around the corner, we need your immediate help to build on the hard-earned momentum of our Pennsylvania victory and continue our success all the way to the nomination.

Contribute today to help carry our momentum to Indiana, North Carolina, West Virginia, and beyond.

Even though the Obama campaign went for broke trying to knock us out of the race, the people of Pennsylvania had other ideas.

We connected with Pennsylvania families who know they need a strong leader who's on their side to turn around the battered Bush economy and end President Bush's disastrous war in Iraq. And as this redefined contest moves across the country, we'll keep connecting.

I'm in this race to fight for you. And you know you can count on me to keep fighting for you every day. And as long as we keep working together, we'll wrest control of the White House from the Republicans and defeat John McCain. I'm going to continue to rely on your heart and your spirit every step of the way.

Contribute now, and together, we can carry our winning message to victory.

Thanks to you, we're on a roll. And with your immediate help, we'll keep moving forward until we've won the Democratic nomination, won the November election, and earned the opportunity to lead America in a new, more promising direction.

Thanks so much for believing in me and believing in how much we can accomplish if we keep pulling together.

Sincerely,

Hillary Rodham Clinton

I took the liberty of replacing the link to the generic links page at the campaign's website with the link to my HillRaisers page.

Add your voice to those who've already donated guys.  If it's been a while and you're serious - I mean really serious about seeing Hillary win the right to take on McCain (and KICK HIS ASS in November!) then please, please, please go to my HillRaisers link and give until it hurts.  People are giving up little things throughout the week like bottled water, lunch at restaurants or even the local deli and are bringing their lunch to work, dinner out or movie night, Starbucks coffee etc., and are sending Hillary that $ instead.  Every little bit helps guys and it really adds up.

So think of where you might make room in your budget and send what you can.  Hillary's got to bring in more $ if she's going to remain competitive in the upcoming contests.

HELP HILLARY TO VICTORY IN PA - CONTRIBUTE NOW!

Help keep the momentum going strong if you want to see her make it gang.

UPDATE

Hat tip to Candian Gal for finding this fun, lighthearted Muppets video...



Display:


Re: Turning the Tide - Together (2.00 / 18)

Togther - we WILL do it!


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 10:47:18 PM EST

Yes, we WILL! (2.00 / 11)


Want to defend marriage equality in Maine? Ask me how!
by atdleft on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 10:56:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yes, we WILL! (2.00 / 11)

Straight up buddy! :o)


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:00:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

May the good Lord's favor shine upon her! (2.00 / 1)


by dystopianfuturetoday on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 12:26:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yes, we WILL! (none / 0)

She didn't win by double digits. Her lead is about 9.3%


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:49:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Yes, we WILL! (2.00 / 11)

Yes, Hillary WILL win! Yes, we WILL make sure she has what it takes to win! Simple as that. Thanks, Alegre. :-)


Want to defend marriage equality in Maine? Ask me how!
by atdleft on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 10:57:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yes, we WILL! (2.00 / 10)

My pleasure atdleft ;o)


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:01:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Turning the Tide - Together (2.00 / 13)

Unbelievable that Obama spent $11.2 million on television ads to Clinton's $4.8 million, along with countless more money on phone banks, direct mail and voter targeting.... and still got his clock cleaned!


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 10:59:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Turning the Tide - Together (2.00 / 12)

Don't forget all the money those unions and special interest groups (you know - the ones he railed against last year?) spent on his behalf.


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:02:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yep, yep, yep... (2.00 / 6)

No matter how much the Obama people here try to spin this, Hillary won. She won a decisive victory in PA, and she once again defied the media expectations of her coming demise. No matter how much money the Obama Campaign spends to trash Hillary on teevee and in the mail, she wins. :-)


Want to defend marriage equality in Maine? Ask me how!
by atdleft on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:05:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Turning the Tide - Together (2.00 / 0)

What about all the money Hillary spent early on in the campaign? Why didnt she close the deal back then? How quickly forget Hillary was the one with the 20 point plus lead in PA not too long ago. And there is no correlation to every single dollar you spend on ad dollars. Ad spending will get you more votes, but at some point, you get diminishing returns. McCain won his primary easy with barely any funds.


by Pravin on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:16:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Turning the Tide - Together (2.00 / 4)

So at what point in spending a record $11.2 million on this primary did Obama recognize it was a diminishing return, and why didn't he bail instead of squandering the hard earned dollars of his campaign contributors?  

And tell us again why he got trounced.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:24:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Turning the Tide - Together (2.00 / 0)

He got trounced. So what? Didnt Hillary lose other states? If PA was placed during the middle of the primary season he wouldnt have lost by any less. You lose some, you win some. Use some common sense when you talk. Does closing the deal mean win every single state, including the ones where you trailed by 20 points not too long ago?

Obama has shown a weakness and it is upto him to rectify it. Same with Hillary.

But your logic of spending money should mean guaranteed win even though you trail by 20 points in a state is silly.


by Pravin on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:33:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: To the contrary (2.00 / 4)

You're the one arguing that spending money should mean guaranteed win:

What about all the money Hillary spent early on in the campaign? Why didnt she close the deal back then?


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:44:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Right (2.00 / 0)

because we have not seen HRC supporters make arguments about outspending her 3:1.

No, no...that never happened.


-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 12:20:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: To the contrary (2.00 / 0)

Get a clue. I was merely directing the same kind of question back at you guys.


by Pravin on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 01:36:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

He doesn't care about spending others' money (2.00 / 1)

Wonder if that indifference indicates anything about how he would feel about taxpayers if he gets elected president?


by lombard on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 12:02:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He doesn't care about spending others' money (2.00 / 0)

Two words - mark penn


by Pravin on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 01:37:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He doesn't care about spending others' money (none / 0)

He's doing exactly what he promised he would do with that money. People gave him that money for the sole purpose of spending it on his campaign, and that's exactly what he did. Since when does indifference mean listing to your supporters? And does this same arguement apply to Hillary? Does she hate voters because she's spending their money faster than she can collect it? No. Stop trying to attack Obama with unreasonable claims.


by Okamifujutsu on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:59:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Turning the Tide - Together (none / 0)

Whats even more unbelievable was that Hillary and her campaign was able to blow a 20 point lead, her 16 years of name recognition, her "home state" advantage and her (at the beginning of the 6 weeks) massive blowout win.

From a 20+ point lead down to a negligible 8-9 point win (she didn't get the double digit win she needed so don't even try that argument)

So you can do 2 things..
Acknowledge that Obama did a good job in closing the gap.
Or
Acknowledge that Clinton didn't handle Penn very well and pissed away a 20+ point lead.

Either Obama did good or Clinton did bad... pick 1

Want a baseball anology?
6 weeks ago at the start of the
"Pennsylvania 7 game series" Hillary and her advantages had her at 3 games ahead. Obama came from behind and rather then getting blown out 4-0.. pushed on to force a game 6 tie breaker that Hillary barely won.

Did she win? yes..
Did she win by double digits? No..
Did she radically change the Delegate count? No
Did she radically change the Popular vote count? No..
Did she suddenly move the goalposts post-penn and declare that a new metric should be the factor for deciding who gets the nomination? Yes...

Penn was Hillary's state to loose and she almost did.


**Stop the Drama.. Vote Obama**
by Winterblink on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:31:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Reverse Psychology (2.00 / 1)

No, what's really unbelievable is how Obama squandered $11.2 million on television ads along with dumping cash in phone banks, direct mail and voter targeting, not to mention all the money his special interest groups fused into his campaign -- and still couldn't pull out a win as the presumptive frontrunner.

You can do two things:

Acknowledge Clinton did a fantastic job in connecting with exactly the type of voters we're going to need to win the general election

or

Acknowledge the Obama can pump virtually unlimited amounts of cash to woo voters with "hope," and still can't seal the deal.

Either Clinton did good or Obama did bad... pick 1.

Want a sports analogy?

In the "Pennsylvania NCAA" Hillary is just like Kansas. She worked hard for months, perfected her game in the last weeks, scored with the issues voters most cared about and sealed the deal with a 10 advantage.

Did she win? yes.
Was it a blow out? Yes.
Did she change the Delegate count? Yes
Did she change the Popular vote count? Yes
Is she now ahead in the popular vote count? Yes

Is Obama now attempting to move the goalposts to exclude FL & MI to declare that a new metric should be the factor for deciding who gets the nomination? Yes.

PA was Obama's state to lose and he did.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 11:39:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Reverse Psychology (none / 0)

Yes, I totally agree with you.. I have a very good argument.. so good in fact you tried to use it verbatim.. too bad (for Hillary) it doesn't work for her side


**Stop the Drama.. Vote Obama**
by Winterblink on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 11:46:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Reverse Psychology (none / 0)

Why not?


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:51:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Reverse Psychology (none / 0)

When you can come up with some valid arguments.. feel free to post em


**Stop the Drama.. Vote Obama**
by Winterblink on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 11:47:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Reverse Psychology (none / 0)

I already did.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:52:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Reverse Psychology (none / 0)

Did this help help her win the nomination? Not really. To catch up to Obama, she needed a massive margin of victory in every remaining state. The fact that Clinton couldn't break 10 in a state that Obama was planning on losing is not promising. As for spending, you don't seem to understand the vast difference in the ammount of money each candidate has. Obama is well within his budget spending 10 million or whatever he did. Clinton is barely in the black right now. It's not hard to vastly outspend someone with no money.

And since when was PA Obama's state? If Obama had been up by 20+ points at the begining, you'd have an arguement. Clinton had this state in the bag from day 1. It was hers to lose.

Also, Obama doesn't care where the goal posts are when he's 15 yards ahead of clinton with 10 yards to go. How's that for a sports analogy?


by Okamifujutsu on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:12:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Turning the Tide - Together (1.60 / 5)

Yes, Hillary can!  This is how.....


by SovSov on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:24:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Turning the Tide - Together (none / 0)

Could someone please post a diary showing how Hillary can win besides cheesy yahoos about how she will. I would just like to see some mathematical way it can be done. I feel the way I did when a politician with the help of the media created a fantasy story about invading Iraq. We have real problems and we need real solutions from reality based people. The ability to spin large numbers of people into fantasy is not a skill we want in our next President. The world is not flat, the sun does not orbit the earth and Hillary will not be our next President.


by ImpeachBushCheney on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:20:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Turning the Tide - Together (none / 0)

She needs to get Florida seated as is, Michigan seated with no one getting the uncommitteds (or maybe even her somehow getting them?).  And this needs to happen before Obama gets to 2024.  Then she needs to take it to the convention and hope the pledged delegates for him flip to her (and hope she doesn't lose any of hers).  It's possible, but unlikely.


by ProgressiveDL on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:34:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

FL and MI can't be seated (none / 0)

before the convention.  The only way to appeal the ruling is through the credentials committee and a floor vote.  Which Obama delegates will control unless she's already passed him in non-MI and non-FL delegates.

So, FL and MI can't save the day.  Her only hope is a massive unexpected superdelegate swing (which would be made easier by an Edwards endorsement), or something career-ending happening to Obama.

I hope she's at least prepared her "step aside in the interests of the party" speech.


by corph on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:30:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Turning the Tide - Together (none / 0)

Check out Jerome Armstrong's front page article.

Could someone please post a diary showing how Hillary can win besides cheesy yahoos about how she will. I would just like to see some mathematical way it can be done.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:34:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Congratulations to Hillary!!!!!!!! (2.00 / 1)

Pennsylvania and Ohio are MUST WIN states for Democrats this fall.  Hillary has proven that she can get out the votes in both of these states!!!

Hillary has now won more votes,  than any candidate running for President, from either party, in US HISTORY!!!!!

I would think the superdelegates will take a good look at this in deciding who our nominee will be.  


Another proud Hillary Clinton supporter for Obama
by Sandy1938 on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 11:19:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Turning the Tide - Together (none / 0)

1) "Hillary defied the odds and the pundits and went on to win Pennsylvania by double digits yesterday."

Actually she won by 9.4%, not double digits.

2) Obama was down 20-30% on average and made it much more competitive.

3) You and the candidate you support are committing political suicide by trying to overturn what has already been done in these votes.

Get it through your head. MAYBE you can count Florida because all of the candidates were on the ballot even though no one campaigned. But there is NO WAY IN HADES that you can count Michigan when only Hillary Clinton was on the ballot. Well, other than Chris Dodd and Dennis Kucinich, two serious Presidential contenders if I ever saw them.

Seriously Alegre, are you asking for a banana republic style election to hold serve? Is THIS how you want to get your candidate in the white house?

4) Are you so blind as to believe that jumping through the hoops of intellectual dishonesty in order to count Michigan and Florida and do whatever it takes to incinerate Obama will engender good will toward Hillary Clinton come August and the convention?

Do you really believe that blacks will support her in force after that kind of contravention of the process? Or all of the young voters who have newly registered to support Obama?

Or all of the independents and republicans who have crossed over to vote FOR Obama because they actually like him and what he could mean politically for this country?

Do you REALLY want to commit this kind of political hari kari???

It's just mind boggling. I supported Howard Dean with everything I had in 2004, but even I saw the writing on the wall with regard to Kerry and supported his candidacy. I couldn't stand the guy, but I'll tell you that if the super delegates had overturned Kerry's win in the primaries and handed the election to Dean, I would have been aghast and certainly would've stayed home.

I have to ask myself if you and others pushing this kind of logic train truly believe in the rules of this party and what breaking them would mean to the party in the fall. Hillary Clinton by herself is a painfully divisive figure in american politics. People do not trust her and do not like her. And with Bill added to the mix it only gets worse.

Hell, I'm a democratic-leaning independent who voted for Hillary Clinton in 2000 enthusiastically when she came to NY only to be disappointed time after time after time. Most of all in 2002 when she voted to let Bush go to war.

And there is just no way I can ever vote for her again because of the simple fact that I do not trust her. Why do I not trust her? Because of her legislative record.

So ask yourself. Is it worth it to incinerate the party for this kind of "YES! I BEAT YOU!!" feeling? Is it really worth the destruction this kind of politicking is wreaking?

Because all I see you doing is stoking the fires of a democratic defeat in the fall whether you end up with Obama or Clinton as the nominee. That's all you're doing.


by Yalin on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:58:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Oh sweet irony! (none / 0)

Please god, tell me there are some Hillary supporters out there that see the irony in Hillary not counting Obama's votes in Michigan in her popular vote estimate.


by Djo on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 09:34:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Defied the odds? She was never behind. (2.00 / 2)

Silly spin. Just take the win for what it is. No need to make things up. It's a disservice to Sen. Clinton.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 10:47:54 PM EST

Wow - Did You Even Read the Whole Diary? (2.00 / 8)

Seriously - I've sourced quite a bit there - go read the links.


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 10:50:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wow - Did You Even Read the Whole Diary? (2.00 / 3)

I did. She didn't defy the odds. She met the expectations. Isn't the win worth enough? Does it need spin to make it bigger for some reason?

It's a good win for her campaign. That would seem sufficient.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 10:53:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wow - Did You Even Read the Whole Diary? (1.88 / 9)

Met expectations?  She was outspent 3 to 1 in PA and she still beat him.  Same as Ohio and a lot of other states.

He's shown us time and time again that he can't cut into her base.  Even with all of those advantages.


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:03:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wow - Did You Even Read the Whole Diary? (2.00 / 2)

Advantages like an ex-President campaigning for you, the state machine behind you, and favorable demographics? Did you pay attention to the polls at all or did you actually think he'd  win? No one else did. Not even Sen. Obama.

Your spin insults her win.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:06:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wow - Did You Even Read the Whole Diary? (1.85 / 7)

Bill is a great campaigner but BO's team have gone out of the way to wrongly play the race card against him.  I'm absolutely disgusted at the way they've treated him in all this.  I know he's a big boy and can take care of himself but Axelrod really ought to be ashamed of himself.

As for the demographics - those are the very folks Obama's failed time and time again to win over.  And we're goint to need each and every one of them if we're going to win the general election.


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:19:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wow - Did You Even Read the Whole Diary? (1.60 / 5)

Oh please. Get off of it. That's a bunch of bull and if he could take it you  and he wouldn't be whining about that fiction.

As for the demographics, Clinton would need African-Americans and she has failed time and time again to win them over. See how stupid that argument is in a primary?


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:22:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wow - Did You Even Read the Whole Diary? (2.00 / 2)

So I guess it depends on how you define expectations then. You define expectations by money spent, and others define expectations based on polling numbers.

Personally, I think I'm going to define expectations by the polling.


by Jaffee on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:10:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wow - Did You Even Read the Whole Diary? (none / 0)

Of course the opposite is also true, she can't touch his base, I think at this point Obama has to consider allowing Hillary to be VP.


by Socraticsilence on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:10:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wow - Did You Even Read the Whole Diary? (2.00 / 1)

"Allowing???"

Thank you father for ALLOWING something.

This is what has turned me off to Obama and his campaign.  The paternalistic arrogance.  The holier than thou sanctimony.  Sheesh....


by Jjc2008 on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 09:41:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wow - Did You Even Read the Whole Diary? (none / 0)

How is it that when a politician decides to speak to the American public like they actually have brains and treat them with a modicum of respect, he is called "upppity" or "elitist" or "snobby"? You prefer being talked down to, with dumbed down speeches and fake "I'm jes a regular ol' person" inflection?
"We have said since Iowa that this is a race for delegates."
-Howard Wolfson
by belicheat on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:22:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Big mistake (none / 0)

Why do you think Scaife, Limbaugh et al. have been praising/urging dittoheads to vote for her?  She's the face that launched a thousand Republican campaign contributions.

There are plenty of other veep choicees that are strong with Clinton's demographics.


by corph on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:33:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wow - Did You Even Read the Whole Diary? (2.00 / 1)

So if Hillary outspends Obama in NC, will she make a  10 point turnaround like OBama did in PA?
Your logic is lacking. Of course Obama will spend more because he has the money advantage and it probably will help him some. BUt is there some formula that I am not aware of that says spending X times what the other candidate spends will give you  X times the votes? He did narrow down the lead to 9 points despite his sloppy handling of the bitter comments which arrested his momentum.  He didnt waste it all like Hillary did early inm the campaign. I am sure you feel good about your money going to the likes of Mark Penn.
by Pravin on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:19:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wow - Did You Even Read the Whole Diary? (none / 0)

Do you realize how silly you sound? If Hillary outspent Obama 3 to 1 in SC, do you think she would have won? Do you have some magic formula that spending 3 to 1 should ensure a victory>?


by Pravin on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:34:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wow - Did You Even Read the Whole Diary? (none / 0)

Wrong area. didnt meant to make my reply redundant.


by Pravin on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:35:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Strange... (2.00 / 2)

you got 7 mojo ratings but never actually addressed heresjohnny's point.  If you followed the polls or knew the state's demographics like most of us here, there's no way in hell you would think Hillary wasn't always favored to win this state.  And win or lose... Hillary is in a worse position today than she was the day before the Penn Primary.  She could have won by 18% and 400,000 votes instead of 9% and 200,000.  Now that ship has sailed and she barely made a dent in Obama's delegate or popular vote leads.  This race is over - it's Obama vs. McCain.  


by alb on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 12:10:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

baloney (2.00 / 3)

he is the front runner, the media has painted her as done already, she was outspent massively and she won anyway.
If Obama didn't think he could win here he would not have spent all that money.,
For Obama it now becomes: Faith, hope and CHANGE! And the greatest of these is Change!
by TeresaInPa on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 08:17:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Wrong... (none / 0)

When you have as much money as the Obama campaign does you can afford to throw money at a lost cause like Penn, simply to minimize delegate and pop vote loses.  As such he turned a 25 pt. slaughter into a 9 pt. loss.  Are you really suggesting that he is no better off losing by less than 10 vs. 25, in a contest where the winner is decided by delegate count?


by alb on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 09:14:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

some people... (2.00 / 3)

...can't even meet their own expectations.

I've sworn off any HRC comments!

link


by campskunk on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:26:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: some people... (2.00 / 0)

I'm not talking about HRC. I'm talking about this flawed post.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:27:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: some people... (2.00 / 1)

I'll be reporting your TR abuse. Thanks.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:30:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

johnny, here's a hint. (2.00 / 2)

avoid the word "stupid" in your characterizations, and you'll get higher ratings.

i was very patient explaining things to you, and you didn't see ME engaging in such abusive language, now, did you? just trying to be a good role model ;-)


by campskunk on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 12:17:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: johnny, here's a hint. (2.00 / 0)

Ah. Sensitive. I understand now.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 12:36:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: johnny, here's a hint. (none / 0)

patient, not sensitive. it's not your fault that there weren't people available to teach you this stuff when you were younger.


by campskunk on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 09:21:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: johnny, here's a hint. (none / 0)

Eh. As an individual wasn't called stupid it seems sensitive to me. But I'm a cold hearted uber-liberal so what do I know about feelings.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:41:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Link Re Fundraising (2.00 / 9)

Ten million bucks - that's not spin... that's a fact.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080423/ap_o n_el_pr/campaign_rdp


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 10:52:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Link Re Fundraising (2.00 / 0)

Great but that's  really not relevant to what I'm saying.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 10:54:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Link Re Fundraising (2.00 / 0)

It's not a "fact" until it appears on an FEC filing. Until then, it's a claim.

Your math on the popular count is screwy, and ABC News says your claims are false.


by Adam B on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 10:56:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

parsing once again (1.85 / 7)

just think how you'd be responding if Obama just raised $10 million overnight...you wouldn't be saying "it ain't so until he files with the FEC", now would you?

Sounds like sour grapes.

And why should you be worried?  You gloat about how HRC is broke, and how much money your guy has, and you want to parse this?  You transparently show you are actually worried, and kinda ticked off!

So if it makes you happy, you can wait till the FEC filings and analyze everyone of them.  IN the meantime, good luck with fundraising for Obama, oh, and don't report them as fact until you have filed those FEC papers!!!  


by 4justice on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:03:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Link Re Fundraising (2.00 / 3)

Not my math - RCP's.


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:04:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Ignore the trolls... (2.00 / 3)

You gave the clear facts, Alegre. Hillary has the popular vote lead, since FL & MI are US states where voters vote in Presidential Elections. Hillary has raised over $10 MILLION since last night. Clearly, Hill has real momentum... That's why these Obama people are running scared. ;-)


Want to defend marriage equality in Maine? Ask me how!
by atdleft on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:11:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ignore the trolls... (2.00 / 2)

Yep, man I sure do hope Obama can upset Hillary in the Clinton stronghold of North Carolina, I mean I know that sounds crazy, but I have a gut feeling that he can stun the media and pull of a victory there despite all of advantages Hillary has in the Area.


by Socraticsilence on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:18:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ignore the trolls... (2.00 / 3)

...they're grumpier than usual for some reason.


by campskunk on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:30:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

All the talking heads and all the Obama (2.00 / 3)

supporters can put this forward anyway they want. It doesn't matter. The results of Michigan (with it's uncommitted category) and Florida ( with them both on the ballot) will be counted. If not on paper, then on some big, chalky black-board in a smoke-filled room, and in the minds of the supers who haven't yet committed. It might not be fair to Obama to give Hillary her Michigan delegates - even if you give him the "uncommitteds." But how unfair is it to deprive Hillary of Florida's votes, for whatever reason, when that state, with a properly held primary, could have propelled her to victory. No, maybe we aren't able to "count" those delegates or voters, but they are going into the equation. Count on it...


Obama supporter working to defeat McCain.
by Rumarhazzit on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:57:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

That Michigan split not so unfair (none / 0)

I'm not calling for that but both candidates would receive a higher share of the delegates than they would have if everyone would have been on the ballot.  Clinton would not have received as many votes as she did but Obama would not have received all of the uncommitted votes at that point, either.  


by lombard on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 12:10:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: All the talking heads and all the Obama (2.00 / 0)

FL & MI wouldn't have been enough to, as you say, propel her to victory. But they certainly will be seated in some capacity.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 12:10:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

AHA! - The states where voters vote! That's IT! (2.00 / 1)

"Hillary has the popular vote lead, since FL & MI are US states where voters vote in Presidential Elections"

Hard to argue with such sterling logic.


by edmandspath on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 12:24:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

RCP (2.00 / 0)

Only if you count states that didn't count.

But, hey, if you don't have to campaign in a state for it to matter, why is Hillary still campaigning?


by Adam B on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:43:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Adam B (2.00 / 4)

You "claim" Obama was one of your professors. It's not a "fact" until you post your transcript and bonafide evidence of Obama's professorial credentials.

It's not a "fact" until it appears on an FEC filing. Until then, it's a claim.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:07:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Adam B (2.00 / 2)

oh, now that's unfair. IOKIYAOS.


by campskunk on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:30:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Link Re Fundraising (2.00 / 2)

Hmm.  I thought you didn't like ABC.


by Caldonia on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:23:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Link Re Fundraising (2.00 / 0)

That I thought Gibson ran a shitty debate doesn't mean their news division stinks -- but, hey, Alegre's the one trying to rely on them, not me.


by Adam B on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:42:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Link Re Fundraising (2.00 / 0)

It's a great intake, with all honesty. However, they will need a whole lot more that just $10 million.

Everyone's been talking about Obama outspending Senator Clinton 2.5 to 1 (or 3 to 1, or 5 to 1, or.. who cares). Two things to be said about that:

  1. Senator Clinton had no choice in the matter. May be they would've matched Obama if they had the money (which they didn't)
  2. The way Obama spent forced the Clinton campaign to spend a lot more money than they would've liked to.
That being said, the $10 million was made a bit less significant that it would've otherwise because of Obama outspending Clinton 2 to 1, 3 to 1, 4 to 1, or.. who cares.


_____________
changiness
by lizardbox on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 10:58:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Link Re Fundraising (2.00 / 4)

well, if obama forced hillary to spend all that mney, why didn't he play it smart and NOT force her? she took that money he was "forcing" her to spend, and made him look like dogmeat.  maybe he wouldn't have had his ass handed to him if he'd slacked off a bit on the spending.

it's rookie political mistakes like that which give me no confidence in his ability to face the republicans in the fall. he'd probably force john mccain to run a brilliant campaign and give us another four to eight years of republican rule.


by campskunk on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 12:06:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Link Re Fundraising (2.00 / 0)

Rookie? You must be kidding right? With all the inevitability talk of the everything being over on Feb 5th?

Also, Senator Clinton has purposefully changed the tone of this contest in an effort to undermine the Obama message that was the exact opposite of the Republican offering. The more this drags on with all the negativity (and Bin Laden ads) the more Obama is made to look like just another politician. Knowing that she cannot win this contest and insisting on going negative I cannot help but question the motivation of your candidate as suspect. "Stay the Course" should never have become a Democratic candidate's campaign strategy.


_____________
changiness
by lizardbox on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 12:26:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Link Re Fundraising (2.00 / 0)

I will grant you FL. Both contested there and the votes will probably not change much if they revoted.. But to include MI in the popular count is silly. You seriously tell me Obama wouldn't get most of the uncommitted, at the very least? And what about the states which had caucuses. Obama probably wins most of them, if not all. Do you have a formula to predict how each woudl fare? You don't.


by Pravin on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:21:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Silly (2.00 / 7)

you all had counted her out for the long haul, in fact you had counted her out by now.  Did you ever expect to be here? Didn't think so.

So yes, she defied all expectations.  And now you are lowering expectations, as if you knew it all along!  


by 4justice on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 10:56:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Silly (2.00 / 1)

just for the record pretty sure EVERY Obama supporter has been saying for Weeks Hillary was going to win PA

and she won it by 9.

but I am calling it now and you can quote me Obama is taking Indiana and North Carolina.

so I look forward to the diaries in 2 weeks.


Dream for tomorrow but fight for it today.
by TruthMatters on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 10:59:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Silly (2.00 / 0)

Actually I still count her out but that's really not the issue. She was supposed to win all of the states that she has won. There have been no upsets.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 10:59:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Silly (none / 0)

Not really. I expected her to be in all the way to the convention, however, I also expected her to run a campaign against Obama similar to Huckabee's against McCain. Guess I was wrong on one of the accounts.


_____________
changiness
by lizardbox on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:00:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Silly (2.00 / 0)

Are you dense? I do not know many Obama supporters who claimed Obama would win PA? Many were hoping he would make it close.  But 5-8 point loss was pretty much what many of us were expecting. And if you looked at the comments, one could extrapolate from our tone that even a 10% loss wouldnt be surprising.
So what the hell are you saying that this was against all odds>
Hillary was leading by 20 FREAKING POINTS just a few weeks ago.
by Pravin on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:23:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Silly (none / 0)

Nope, no lowered expectations here.  From now on, I'm calling him the "presumptive Democratic nominee."  He's the unofficial nominee.  It's up to Hillary to prove that wrong.


by ProgressiveDL on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:40:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Silly (none / 0)

Clinton was counting out all states and voters that voted after Super Tuesday.

You cannot deny that the Clinton Campaign assumed this would be an easy and inevitable win on Super Tuesday.

They miscalculated America's desire for change and found themselves suddenly behind in the race.

Did anyone expect to be here with a primary such as this?? No.. NOONE expected a primary battle such as this.

The clintons sure didn't.. or they would have been much better prepared for a long fight.

Hillary assumed her name would be embossed on the democratic ticket...
Due to her misguided and mismanaged campaign.. she'll be lucky to get a few thousand write in votes


**Stop the Drama.. Vote Obama**
by Winterblink on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:46:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Turning the Tide - Together (2.00 / 6)

turning the tide!!!  check out my diary from this morning alegre - i think you'll like it!

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/4/23/1339 24/229


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that word I reach for my feather Boa!" -- Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 10:52:07 PM EST

Right (2.00 / 1)

Counting Michigan as is?

Putin would be proud.


by edmandspath on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 10:55:19 PM EST

Re: Right (2.00 / 0)

lol why bother, MI will never be counted as is, Hillary has supporters who even say it.

just let them say it if they want to, the supers know what is really happening so why bother fighting them over it.

P.s. Obama will get a couple of supers in the next few days ;)

so instead of arguing with them just look forward to the next super, each super brings him 1 closer to the magic number


Dream for tomorrow but fight for it today.
by TruthMatters on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 10:57:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Right (1.50 / 4)

Disenfranchising voters after BO told them to fuck off by taking his name off the ballot.

If Putin would be proud of anyone it's BO.


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:33:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Right (2.00 / 3)

And John Edwards added, "Suck it, Michigan!" and then they both laughed and laughed because they hate America.


by jdusek on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:48:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Right (2.00 / 1)

You realize that Hillary agreed that MI and FL would not count? It was the DNC that told Michigan to "fuck off" not Obama, Clinton or Edwards.

The issue is that NOW Clinton wants to change the rules after the fact. Which is simply unfair.

Counting Michigan's votes in the popular vote total is a complete farce.


by smoothmedia on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:22:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Right (2.00 / 1)

Try reading the rules.
Try understanding the difference between rank and file members and the ego driven party leadership playing one upmanship.
You don't disenfranchise millions of voters because a few egos wanted to play a power game.

But then the Obamanation is all about the "insiders" and the power.


by Jjc2008 on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 09:44:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Right (none / 0)

the only agreement was a four state pledge not to campaign in MI and FL.


vote blue in 2008
by sepulvedaj3 on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:25:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Believe it or not... (1.88 / 9)

Counting all the votes is democratic. Disenfranchising voters isn't. Why does the Obama Campaign support disenfranchising Florida & Michigan Democrats?


Want to defend marriage equality in Maine? Ask me how!
by atdleft on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 10:59:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Believe it or not... (2.00 / 0)

Counting Michigan as is, IS "disenfranchising" voters.

But you knew that.


by edmandspath on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:06:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

On what planet? (2.00 / 3)


Want to defend marriage equality in Maine? Ask me how!
by atdleft on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:13:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

On what planet? (2.00 / 3)

In bizarro world? When did counting all the votes become "disenfranchising"? Does Camp Obama train its "activists" to not trust logic?


Want to defend marriage equality in Maine? Ask me how!
by atdleft on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:14:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On what planet? (2.00 / 1)

When did counting all the votes become "disenfranchising"?

All the votes? I thought you didn't want to count any of the uncommitted votes, "disenfranchising" thousands of voters.  At least that's what you need to do to reach the totally laughable conclusion that Hillary is leading in the popular vote now.


Lost rate and rec for issuing a '1' to a trollish comment. The troll, not so much.

by map on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 01:42:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Believe it or not... (2.00 / 0)

I agree with FL. I bet some Obama supporters would be screaming their heads off if Obama won FL and they didnt count FL. But even the REpublicans agreed to cut half the representation. Hillary was acting like the good team member before she lost her lead.Now she acts like a champion???

And Mi??? Are you joking? That election was barely covered. There was no enthusiasm. a bunch of people even showed up to vote uncommitted. The DEmocratic party at the state and central level bungled that. Obama definitely did not do much to get a revote going and I blame him for that. BUt please, stop misleading people on the facts. You are disenfranchising the voters who did not show up in MI because they knew it was a sham election if you count the people who showed up because they had extra time to kill or whatever.

Oh, and watch the Daily Show today to see Jon Stewart nail Hillarys shifting statements on the wisdom of people power.


by Pravin on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:28:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Believe it or not... (2.00 / 1)

Yea....they were encouraged by a certain blog to go and do the uncommited thing.....just like some were encouraged by the same blog to register republican in some states so they could vote for or against certain republicans.

A certain blog that insists they are liberals are really manipulators and they are all about playing games.   So please spare us the sanctimonious "they broke the rules and must be punished" rhetoric. Rank and file voters are not the same as party leaders with egos to inflate or blog leaders with a desire for fame and fortunes and the need to be on television and show the world the face of the "new, American Idol democratic base".


by Jjc2008 on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:03:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Believe it or not... (none / 0)

if Possible can someone make a diary with the Daily show clip where Jon is addressing the FL MI issue and link it for discussion tomorrow ?


President Barack Obama "get used to it"
by wellinformed on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 01:54:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Believe it or not... (none / 0)

if Possible can someone make a diary with the Daily show clip where Jon is addressing the FL MI issue and link it for discussion tomorrow ?


President Barack Obama "get used to it"
by wellinformed on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 01:55:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Right (2.00 / 2)

I just love the people who compare a candidate voluntarily withdrawing his name from the ballot to a Soviet-style election.  What I don't love is what has happened to the reality-based community I used to know.

Five individuals connected to five different campaigns have confirmed -- but only under condition of anonymity -- that the situation that developed in connection with the Michigan ballot is not at all as it appears on the surface. The campaign for Illinois Sen. Barack Obama, arguably fearing a poor showing in Michigan, reached out to the others with a desire of leaving New York Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton as the only candidate on the ballot. The hope was that such a move would provide one more political obstacle for the Clinton campaign to overcome in Iowa.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:24:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Turning the Tide - Together (2.00 / 0)

A couple of things:  

Florida+ votes could be debatable but trying to include Miichagan is never going to fly, I'm sorry but Obama supporters aren't going to agrree to a count that gives him 0 votes for a state that he polls better than hillary in. Also note that even this count is skewed because it doesn't count some states in which Barack crushed Hillary, you know the +100,000 margin he gains from WA, IA, NV, and ME.

Doesn't this "turning tide" meme pretty much die if she loses by double digits in the final large state, North Carolina? (115 Delegates, more than New Jersey or Mass.)


by Socraticsilence on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 10:57:02 PM EST

Alegre you've done it (1.00 / 3)


   usually you manage to post a diary where you don't start lying until at least the second paragraph.

  but in this one, you managed to lie in the very first sentence.

  No pundit and no set of odds were against Hillary Clinton winning Pennsylvania. None!

 


by southernman on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 10:59:17 PM EST

Re: Alegre you've done it (2.00 / 0)

Actually, there was the one poll by PPP that had Obama winning PA, but it was quickly dismissed here by Clinton supporters and Obama supporters alike.

Other than that one poll, nobody was expecting an Obama victory.

Clinton did more or less what was expected, picking up a few delegates but not changing the dynamic of the race.


by jdusek on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 12:50:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Turning the Tide - Together (2.00 / 8)

My husband and I will be dontaing the proceeds of a spring yard sale to Hillary! I will let you all know how it goes!
Also just e-mailed a friend in Evansville In to see if I can get space in her house to sleep and shower so I can go help out!! Friends in KY and a sister in law in NC- where do you think they could use the most help???
by ProudMilitaryMom on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:01:02 PM EST

Seriously (2.00 / 0)


   it was a great win...why spin it out of control. Show me a pundit that expected Obama to win! You can't! Show me any poll that showed Obama winning outside the MOE. You can't!

  This was an unexpected win? Give me a break!!

 


by southernman on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:01:39 PM EST

Re: Turning the Tide - Together (none / 0)

You sound scared.


by Becky G on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:02:01 PM EST

Re: Turning the Tide - Together (2.00 / 2)

heh! if this is scared, i'd hate to see alegre when she's confident.


by campskunk on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:46:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

False bravado. (2.00 / 0)

Instead of claiming an imaginary vote lead, Alegre could acknowledge her gal is way behind and start posting the combinations of primary margins and superdels you need to catch up.  Maybe some "believe"-like rhetoric a la 2004 Red Sox down three games against the Yankees.

That would at least be realistic.  The more you cheer like this, the more you sound like Baghdad Bob.


by corph on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:44:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Baghdad Bob RULES (2.00 / 1)

great analogy LMAO  

Attempting to Acknowledge What Was Happening Militarily Beyond Baghdad:
March 22, 2003
"Maybe they will enter Umm Qasr and Basra, but how will they enter Baghdad?  It will be a big oven for them. They can penetrate our borders but they cannot reach Baghdad.  They will try to pull our army and troops out but we are well aware of their plans and they will fail."

March 23, 2003
"In Umm Qasr, the fighting is fierce and we have inflicted many damages.  The stupid enemy, the Americans and British, failed completely.  They're not making any penetration."

As Televised Reports of U.S. Forces Approaching the Outskirts of Western Baghdad Are Shown:
"They are not any place.  They are on the move everywhere.  They are a snake moving in the desert.  They hold no place in Iraq.  This is an illusion."

After U.S. Forces Seized Baghdad's Airport:
"We butchered the force present at the airport.  We have retaken the airport!  There are no Americans there!"

After U.S. Troops Penetrated Central Baghdad:
April 5, 2003
"Nobody came here. Those America losers, I think their repeated frequent lies are bringing them down very rapidly....  Baghdad is secure, is safe."

April 5, 2003
"They are not near Baghdad. Don't believe them....  They said they entered with...  tanks in the middle of the capital.  They claim that they - I tell you, I... that this speech is too far from the reality. It is a part of this sickness of their plan. There is no an... - no any existence to the American troops or for the troops in Baghdad at all."

April 6, 2003
"Whenever we attack, they retreat.  When we pound them with missiles and heavy artillery, they retreat even deeper.  But when we stopped pounding, they pushed to the airport for propaganda purposes."

April 7, 2003
"The Americans are not there.  They're not in Baghdad.  There are no troops there.  Never.  They're not at all."

April 7, 2003
"U.S. forces learned a lesson last night they will never forget.  We slaughtered them and will continue to slaughter them."

April 7, 2003
"There is no presence of American infidels in the city of Baghdad."

With Media Pictures of U.S. Troops Being Shown Standing Under the Giant Crossed Swords in Saddam's Favorite Parade Grounds in Baghdad, While Giving a Press Briefing Around the Corner:
"There you can see, there is nothing going on."

After U.S. Missiles Destroyed His Office in the Information Ministry and He was Forced to Give Press Briefings on the Street:
"They will be burnt.  We are going to tackle them."

Disputing His Own Assertions of No Coalition Troops in Baghdad:
"We blocked them inside the city.  Their rear is blocked....  They pushed a few of their armored carriers and some tanks with their soldiers.  We besieged them and I think we will finish them soon."

While American Soldiers Are Showering in Saddam's Bathroom Nearby Presidential Palace:
"We have killed most of the [coalition] infidels, and I think we will finish off the rest soon."

After Being Shown Footage of Iraqi Soldiers Surrendering:
"Those are not Iraqi soldiers at all."

April 7, 2003
"This invasion will end in failure."

******

ok his last quote he was actually right but every other quote sound Like something Alegre would say lol  


President Barack Obama "get used to it"
by wellinformed on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:03:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Turning the Tide - Together (1.00 / 3)

This is nothing but garbage and it only shows to what extent Hillary and her supporters will go to steal this election.

Michigan votes will not count in the popular vote - get over it.  Obama was not on the ballot.


Coonsey's World http://coonsey.wordpress.com/
by coonbug on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:02:52 PM EST

Re: Turning the Tide - Together (2.00 / 3)

Let me remind YOU of the facts, since you and the other BO supporters seem to have a hard time grasping the facts. Obama took his name off of the ballot Voluntarily in Michigan, no one forced him to do that, that was his choice. Now he wants to whine and carry on like a fool about the unfairness of allowing the votes to count in Michigan. In florida, his name was on the ballot and Clinton won by more than 300,000 votes, a stunning victory for her in that state. Now he wants to disenfranchise those voters as well. He is losing the argument, losing voters and losing states, having lost 4 or the last 5 primaries. He can't even be honest with himself and folks are now seeing this guy for what he is, a charlatan masquerading as a champion of the people.  It's time that the mask comes off so we can all see who this guy really is.  


Steven Shaman Publisher Skywatch-Media News
by steve468 on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:18:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Turning the Tide - Together (2.00 / 0)

Do you think the allocation of zero delegates to Obama in MI represents the will of the voters in MI?


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:24:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

he's gonna get some. (2.00 / 3)

they did the delegate selection in MI this week - here is a news story about it. unfortunately for obama, he sent a bunch of rookies down to muscle the union reps at the convention. detroit union folks don't muscle that easily ;-)


There were clashes between young and old, black and white, longtime party activists -- many tied to organized labor -- and the newly minted Democrats who have gotten involved in politics because of Illinois Sen. Barack Obama.

In the end, supporters of Obama won half of the 36 Uncommitted delegate seats, while union-backed candidates won the rest. It was a bitter pill for the new Democrats, who felt that all 36 slots should go to true-blue Obama fans.

"When we first got started, our people weren't the big-name political people," said Christina Montague, director of Michiganders for Obama. "And when you go up against the Democratic Party machine, it's hard."

Candidates endorsed by Michiganders for Obama were not elected in the predominantly African-American 13th and 14th Congressional Districts, which mostly are in Detroit, and the 12th Congressional District, which covers portions of Oakland and Macomb counties.

"It comes down to the numbers, and they had the numbers," said Wayne County Commissioner Bernard Parker, an Obama supporter from the 13th Congressional District in Detroit.


by campskunk on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:53:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Clinton Camp Misrepresents ABC (2.00 / 1)

Clinton Camp Misrepresents ABC News Report

April 23, 2008 12:03 PM

In today's edition of "The Note," ABC News' Rick Klein wrote that "By one (rightly disputed) metric -- the popular vote, including Florida and Michigan -- Clinton has pulled ahead of Obama. But without the rogue states, Obama is still up by 500,000 -- and if you can find another objective measurement by which she’s in the lead, let us know."

Including the popular votes from Florida and Michigan -- which were not sanctioned Democratic National Committee primaries, where the candidates did not compete, where Sen. Barack Obama, D-Illinois was not even on the ballot in Michigan -- is a sketchy notion, and Rick was conveying that with the proper air of skepticism.

Somehow, the Clinton campaign took his report and twisted it into this: "ABC News reported this morning that 'Clinton has pulled ahead of Obama' in the popular vote."

That is a false reflection of what ABC News reported.

My, my. What a tangled web it is she weaves. Twisted, even.
by edmandspath on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:04:03 PM EST

Re: Turning the Tide - Together (2.00 / 0)

ok people the daily show is great, if you aren't watching it!


Dream for tomorrow but fight for it today.
by TruthMatters on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:09:05 PM EST

Re: Turning the Tide - Together (2.00 / 0)

"I would be winning if I was a Republican!"

Hilarious.


by jdusek on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:19:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Turning the Tide - Together (2.00 / 0)

Counting FL and MI is wrong and misguided.  Obama is still ahead, plain and simple.


by Bobby Obama on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:09:33 PM EST

Re: Turning the Tide - Together (2.00 / 4)

A stunning victory by a real fighter. Not only did she put the pundits and pollsters in their place, but she proved to the voters that she has what it takes to win. Obama looked tired and deafeated, and with good reason, he spent 11 million of his contributers dollars in a losing cause, a miserable showing across the board in Pa. He even had the audacity to tell reporters this morning that he is winning....well he sure showed the new meaning of the word "winning" if you want to call it that. The tide is surely turning in this race for our girl Hillary Clinton.


Steven Shaman Publisher Skywatch-Media News
by steve468 on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:09:50 PM EST

Re: Turning the Tide - Together (2.00 / 0)

Put pundits and pollsters in their place?  The pundits were saying she was going to win by 20% as told by the pollsters.  Since when does evaporating lead count as victory?  The big untold story here is that Hillary was drained of most of her reserves to keep her "sure" win from fully going down the tubes.  Like it or not, I would be concentrating on $$$$$$ b/c Obama wasn't looking for the win, his people were looking to drain her last dollars.  


by SovSov on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:16:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Turning the Tide - Together (2.00 / 0)

"A stunning victory by a real fighter. Not only did she put the pundits and pollsters in their place" True, but I have  afeeling Obama can do the same thing in North Carolina, and stun everyone by somehow pulling out a win there against all odds.


by Socraticsilence on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:16:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Turning the Tide - Together (none / 0)

His win in the blue collar state of Illinois was a stunning reversal of fortune.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:25:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Turning the Tide - Is not possible (none / 0)

Ok I found Baghdad Steve

listen pal Obama had the Audacity to say he is wining because hey look he is winning

are Hillary's supporters afraid of watching the news ??!?!!!?!?!  get a grip on reality


President Barack Obama "get used to it"
by wellinformed on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:13:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Turning the Tide - Is not possible (none / 0)

Ok I found Baghdad Steve

listen pal Obama had the Audacity to say he is wining because hey look he is winning

are Hillary's supporters afraid of watching the news ??!?!!!?!?!  get a grip on reality


President Barack Obama "get used to it"
by wellinformed on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:13:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Turning the Tide - Together (2.00 / 0)

Defied the odds? Hmm. Which odds were those?
Double digits? I think 9 is one digit.

And if picking up 10 delegates is turning the tide, go Hillary!
Keep "turning the tide" until Obama becomes the nominee!


by BlueGAinDC on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:10:53 PM EST

Re: Turning the Tide - Together (2.00 / 3)

denial is the first phase of grief.


by campskunk on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:15:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Turning the Tide - Together (2.00 / 0)

Honestly, right now, according to the Pennsylvania Department of State, Hillary is only winning by 9.2%.  In this country 9.2 rounds down to 9, not up to 10.


by shalca on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 01:32:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Turning the Tide - Together (2.00 / 0)

Actually, while you are adding Michigan and Florida you should add Mexico.  It use to be part of the U.S.  and as long as you are dreaming up places to pull in which were/are "ruled out" why not go with another group you think is pro-Hillary.  The rules were set by the Democratic Party long before the first vote was cast.  All remaining candidates agreed and signed on.  Thus, a game plan was set down according to the rules. Hillary was 100% on board with this when she was winning.  Now she wants to rewrite rules?  Why are Hillary's backers so big on FL and MI know and didn't say a peeeeeep when Hillary was looking like a lock?  Goal post on casters?  


by SovSov on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:13:15 PM EST

Re: Turning the Tide - Together (2.00 / 2)

I am not a Mexican citizen.  I am a fucking American citizen.

So are my parents.  So are my friends.  And my teachers, and my students.

We are Americans.  In America, we count votes.  Period.

This is not Obamistan.


No candidacy is more important than the right to vote.
by hornplayer on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 01:36:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Turning the Tide - Together (2.00 / 0)

The election no hinges on whether Obama can unexpectedly pull off the upset in NC, if he can shock the world and win North Carolina I think its over.  

*Note: In the above statement "shock the world" et al refer to Obama defying the odds in NC to the same degree that much Hillary did in PA.


by Socraticsilence on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:13:50 PM EST

Re: Turning the Tide - Together (2.00 / 0)

This idea that "Obama is struggling to win key constituencies":

Are college grads, liberals, blacks, young voters not "key constituencies"?

I mean, neither of them are winning all the constituencies needed to win in the fall.  That talking point is nearly as asinine (but not quite) as the idea that he "can't close the deal" or "Michigan counts".


by bawbie on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:15:06 PM EST

Re: Turning the Tide - Together (2.00 / 4)

The HC campaign has announced that the 10 million was achieved earlier this evening. Money continues to pour in to her campaign at an astonishing rate. It is being reported that no candidate has ever raised as much money in less than 24 hours in the history of politics as was achieved by Hillary after her amazing thumping of Obama in Pa.


Steven Shaman Publisher Skywatch-Media News
by steve468 on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:23:21 PM EST

Re: Turning the Tide - Together (2.00 / 0)

Amazing thumping? 9.2% when you were up 20+ isn't a thumping.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:26:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Turning the Tide - Together (2.00 / 3)

well, tell your buddy axelrod. he was whining today that's it's impossible for democratic candidates to get working class votes, so therefore obama didn't do too badly by not getting them..


by campskunk on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:33:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Turning the Tide - Together (2.00 / 0)

He isn't my buddy and his comment doesn't appear relevant to the numbers.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:34:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Turning the Tide - Together (2.00 / 3)

the numbers are the numbers of votes, including those of working class voters.

see, numbers are an abstraction of the quantity of a given object. in this case, "numbers" means how many votes. what axelrod was saying was that democratic candidates will receive few votes from working class voters. he said that because obama did terribly in that demographic, but the absurdity comes from the fact that they DID vote for a democrat- just not the one axelrod wanted them to. denial is a fairly primitive defense mechanism -- maybe that's all he could come up with on short notice.


by campskunk on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:44:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Turning the Tide - Together (2.00 / 0)

Your comment doesn't seem to be relevant to the numbers either. However, if you want to talk about loyalty black voters are far more likely to vote dem than working class whites. That's one group you don't want to lose. You can't win a national election without them.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:47:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Turning the Tide - Together (2.00 / 3)

sorry, johnny. you may not change topics until you've eaten all your vegetables on the working class demographic first.


by campskunk on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 12:22:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Turning the Tide - Together (2.00 / 0)

Fortunately I wasn't the one changing topics.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 12:33:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Turning the Tide - Together (2.00 / 3)

Wow.  That is some twisted logic.  Although reading through the comments here, it is apparent that last night was traumatic for some Obama supporters, and they can't admit it to themselves even now.  Axelrod is stuck in the swamp of denial.


by Scotch on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 12:16:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Turning the Tide - Together (none / 0)

Stats are twisted? Weird.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 12:34:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Turning the Tide - Together (2.00 / 2)

Hillary has not been +20 against Obama in PA since before Super Tuesday. You can see that if you look at a single poll (cherry pick), but the suite of poll averages have her leading in PA by 10 points in both Feb and March, and then by 6 points in April averages.

So, despite all the money spent, despite the national success, Barack Obama gained 0 ground over the last 3 months to Hillary Clinton in PA.


Hillary supporter for Barack Obama in 2008
by zcflint05 on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:08:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Turning the Tide - Together (none / 0)

That's simply untrue. She was running in the 50's after Ohio and he was running in the 30's.  


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 08:31:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Turning the Tide - Together (2.00 / 0)

wow nice

you think they will tell us how much can be used for GE vs. Primaries?

heh I am gonna email a few people to ask on the conference call tomorrow

Chuck Todd is gonna get sick of me emailing him :-P


Dream for tomorrow but fight for it today.
by TruthMatters on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:28:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Turning the Tide - Together (none / 0)

Racists unite!


by wrb on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:10:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Turning the Tide - Together (none / 0)

10mill eh.. great.. now she can afford pay off her debts. .. hopefully the small businesses she's been stiffing for months haven't gone belly up due to her delinquency.


**Stop the Drama.. Vote Obama**
by Winterblink on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 12:01:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Fuzzy Math (2.00 / 0)

Not an objective meter to tabulate popular vote totals by counting Mich and Fl  

Also if caucus states are thrown in, this will further dilute the integrity of the tally.


by optimusprime on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:31:19 PM EST

Re: Turning the Tide - Together (1.00 / 0)

Hillary defied the odds and the pundits and went on to win Pennsylvania by double digits yesterday.

No. Just no.

She didn't defy the odds. The polls always had her leading. The demographics of the state strongly favored her. The Governor of the State both endorsed and was out stumping for her. The party machinary favored her.

She didn't win by double digits.

Support your candidate by all means, but please make it factual.

by Huck on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:52:59 PM EST

Re: Turning the Tide - Together (2.00 / 2)

;-)


by campskunk on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 12:07:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Turning the Tide - Together (2.00 / 4)

You guys have a hard time admitting defeat even if it is by a glaring 10 points.  Obama threw everything he had at it, and then some, and he just couldn't do it.


by Scotch on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 12:10:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Turning the Tide - Together (2.00 / 0)

"You guys"? Who is "you guys"? I didn't vote for either of 'em. Did you read the link? Did you see the request to keep it factual? If so, why repeat the lie that it was 10 points?
by Huck on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 12:17:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Turning the Tide - Together (2.00 / 3)

look, your guy just didn't do very well last night. go sleep it off. it's not the end of the world. tomorrow's another day. chin up, Huck.


by campskunk on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 12:19:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Turning the Tide - Together (2.00 / 0)

Again, "my guy"? My guy wasn't even on the ballot, so I'm pretty sure I lacked any expectations. No actual response to my original point though, which was about intellectual dishonesty in the diary.
by Huck on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 12:26:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Turning the Tide - Together (2.00 / 0)

That's what I've been trying to point out to no avail.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 12:38:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Turning the Tide - Together (2.00 / 0)

Love the sig :)
by Huck on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 12:55:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

well, i don't get the image, but (2.00 / 3)

a great diary.  Thank you.


by LindaSFNM on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 12:02:48 AM EST

Re: Turning the Tide - Together (2.00 / 2)

I donated.


by johnnygunn on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 12:14:33 AM EST

Here is your opportunity Alegre (2.00 / 0)

I have a spare $5,000. If you are so confident, you can make a quick buck. Let us bet who is going to win the nomination. Have a lawyer contact me at dem08bet@gmail.com if you are up to the challenge. We can write the contract and make this formal. Then you can donate the money to Clinton for the GE. I look forward to your response.


by hania on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 12:41:29 AM EST

Re: Turning the Tide - Together (2.00 / 0)

The thing about tides is, they come and they go. Hillary's highest tide was NH.

What she must have now is a tsunami like the one that stuck in  the Indian Ocean. But expecting the timely eathquake to produce it  is just a fool's hope.


Face it, Hillary. It's over.
by dback on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 12:46:51 AM EST

Love the video! (2.00 / 1)


by izarradar on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 01:42:21 AM EST

Re: Turning the Tide - Together (1.50 / 4)

Barack Obama cannot seal the deal! I am the popular vote leader, which is the only metric that counts! Obama is unelectable!


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 01:49:35 AM EST

Re: Turning the Tide - Together (2.00 / 2)

Highly inappropriate and thus TR'ed. Disrespectful, as well.


Hillary supporter for Barack Obama in 2008
by zcflint05 on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:09:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Turning the Tide - Together (2.00 / 1)

Heh, if you say so, dude. I guess we have to use the kid gloves around here; God forbid anyone got slightly offended by a humorous reference.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:11:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Turning the Tide - Together (2.00 / 3)

Then use kid gloves. Your reference--comparing Hillary Clinton to a genocidal dictator simply because of your distaste for her--is offensive and deserves the TR. I suppose if you enjoy being sexist then you can go to Kos?


Hillary supporter for Barack Obama in 2008
by zcflint05 on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:19:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Turning the Tide - Together (2.00 / 2)

Oh, dear, Flint, and I defended you against that asshole who demanded you were a white supremacist. Here, I've only ever been a part of the MyDD community; I've never been in the Kos community. But, since I've posted a photograph of mild rebuking of the topic posted, I'm a horrible person and should get lost.

By the way, that's not Saddam Hussein, that's Baghdad Bob. Get your references straight if you're gonna cry foul.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:28:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Turning the Tide - Together (2.00 / 0)

Whatever it is, it's crappy photoshopping and spam to boot.


While I could sit in church and pray all I want, I wouldn't be fulfilling God's will unless I went out and did the Lord's work ~ Barack Obama
by bowiegeek on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:16:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Turning the Tide - Together (none / 0)

twig vs. hurricane.  Alegre is betting twig.  sorry.  i applaud you allegiance.


I'm as strong as a bull moose, and you can use me to the limit. - Teddy Roosevelt
by fogiv on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:10:26 AM EST

Popular Vote (none / 0)

Mmmkay, so you post a screenie showing that Barack Obama is winning the popular vote (a ridiculous metric to begin with, but nevermind that) unless Florida and Michigan are counted as is and you assume that, of the 238,168 votes for uncommitted in Michigan, ZERO of those were for Barack. That is not winning the popular vote.


Stop the racism. Fight the smears.
by CrazyDrumGuy on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:02:03 AM EST

Re: Popular Vote (none / 0)

Exactly. Why isn't that fair?


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:11:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Popular Vote (2.00 / 0)

In a vote between Hillary Clinton and Not Hillary Clinton (aka uncommitted), 238,168 people voted for Not Hillary Clinton. Even if you assume that a quarter of those votes were for John Edwards (giving him a whopping 11.2% of the total for the primary), that means that there were approx. 178,626 votes for Not Hillary Clinton from people who would have voted for Barack Obama had his name been on the ballot.

And yes, he did take his name off the ballot voluntarily, but even Hillary was saying that Michigan wasn't going to count before she won. and she also voluntarily signed the pledge to honor the DNC calendar that made IA, NH, SC, and NV the most important states in the country.

Now, I'm certainly not going to be one of those people who compares the Michigan primary to a Soviet election (because in Soviet Russia, Hillary Clinton elects you!) but I don't think you can exclude a couple hundred thousand people from the popular vote count, not to mention all the people who stayed home because every Democratic candidate, Hillary Clinton, included was telling them that their vote wouldn't matter.


Stop the racism. Fight the smears.
by CrazyDrumGuy on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:37:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Popular Vote (2.00 / 2)

It's not Hillary's fault that Barack took his name off the ballot--it was his call. In fact, I believe that I can rightfully claim the 40% of uncommitted voters--all of them. And since his name wasn't on the ballot there, my claim is just as good as his.


Hillary supporter for Barack Obama in 2008
by zcflint05 on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:21:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Turning the Tide - Together (1.00 / 2)

Great work , for the Pubs.

Do you want prison wings named for you, or would you prefer procedures?


by wrb on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:05:23 AM EST

Re: Turning the Tide - Together (2.00 / 1)

You could almost put this on American Idol.

Seacrest: "Ok America (aka Democratic voters) its time for you to vote. But remember.. you're votes wont count since you all showed up to the taping early even though you were warned not to and knew that your vote wouldn't count if you arrived early.

Paula: "What about the contestants (aka the candidates).. do they KNOW the votes wont count?"

Simon: "Yes the contestants/candidates know.. they all even SIGNED a bloody waiver saying they wouldn't sing for any audience members (aka voters) that arrived early"

Randy: Ok.. then the Audience/voters know it wont count. The contestants/canidates know and acknowledge it wont count.. Lets get to voting

Seacrest: "Ok america.. pick up those little dodads and vote"

.
.
.

Some time later..

Seacrest: "Well america the votes are in and they have been tallied. We almost have a winner but there appears to be an issue."

Randy: "Yes it appears that one of the contestants has decided to argue that we should completely disregard the rules of this contest."

Simon: "What the bloody 'ell are you talking about.. you want to change the rules after the contest is over? Why?"

Seacrest: "Well it appears that a % of the audience upon hearing that their vote wouldn't count decided not to bother voting.. I mean hey.. it wasn't gonna count anyways.. amiright?"

Simon" Well thats just bloody crazy.. the voting is already done and the contestants agreed that it wouldn't count..."

Paul: "OMG they even signed a form saying they agreed that the votes wouldn't count since they arrived early."

Randy: "So the contestants agreed it wouldn't count.. the audience KNEW if they showed up early their votes wouldn't count.. but they still showed up early?"

Seacrest: "Yes.. amazingly enough they decided the rules didn't apply to them and seemed to figure that if they did show up early.. the rules commitee would just roll over and forget the agreed upon rules and let them vote regardless."

Paula: "But now we have a cont..."

Singer 1: "I want those votes to count!! Half the audience that showed up early voted for me!! I want them included.. you shouldn't punish them for showing up early!!"

Simon: "They broke the bloody rules.. we told them not to show up early..
Paula: "They were told that if they did show up early they wouldn't be counted.."
Randy: "...but they showed up early anyways"

Seacrest: "Singer 1 are you saying we should say "To hell with the rules?"

Singer 1: "YES.. forget the rules.. I can't win according to the rules... so i want those rule breakers to count so I have half a chance of winning. I watched last years winner sing on stage.. I know!! just from watching him that I have the needed experience to win this contest.. but I need you to throw out the rules so I can win"

Seacrest: "But you agreed to those rules.. you signed a paper saying they wouldn't count!! Half the early audience didn't bother to vote since they knew it wouldn't count..."

Singer 1: "Who cares if they broke the rules... I don't have a snowballs chance in hell of winning unless I get those votes. Who cares if I signed a paper before this all started.. who cares if I agreed that the vote wouldn't count.. I can't win w/o those votes.. I need those votes.. break the rules for me so I can have those votes and possibly win!!"

Randy: "But what do we do about all the early arriver's that didn't bother to vote since they were informed that it wouldn't count? I mean, you were the only contestant listed on the voter thinggy for alot of them. They had no choice.. it was either vote for you or not at all"

Singer 1: "What about them? So they were told their vote wouldn't count.. should I be punished and risk loosing cause I was the only contestant they could vote for?"

Seacrest: "So let me get this straight...
The rules setup before this all began was.. anyone that arrived early wouldn't be counted?
Singer 1: "Yes"
Seacrest: "You signed a waiver agreeing that anyone that arrived early wouldn't be counted?"
Singer 1: "Yes"
Seacrest: "Now you want the judges to disregard those rules and count the early arriver's?"
Singer 1: "Yes"
Seacrest: "Because at this point.. the only chance you have of winning is to have the rules tossed out and the early arriver's votes counted?"
Singer 1: "Yes"

Seacrest: "What about the early arriving audience members that didn't vote?"
Singer 1: "What about them? Its their fault they didn't vote.. they knew their vote wouldn't count.. they should have voted anyways.. sorta like a futile exercise"

Seacrest:: "Singer 2.. how would you like to handle this?"

Singer 2: "Ryan, I'll abide by whatever you and the judges decide. I just want to be sure that the ppl that knew their vote wouldn't count, so didn't bother to vote, get the chance to vote like any democrat."

Seacrest: "Anyhting else?"

Singer 1: "Actually yes.. now that I've seen the numbers of votes, and seen that its not looking good for my chances... I don't think that the contestant with the highest # of votes and supporters should be declared the winner.
Instead.. I would like the Judges.. Paula, Randy and Simon to overturn all the votes and pick me the winner instead. I think I'm the best singer here regardless of the fact that Singer 2 has the most votes and supporters.. and I'd like you judges to give me my due and make me the winner. Sure I'm way behind in the votes and # of supporters. Why should it matter that I'm running out of cash for recitals. Who cares if over half the country doesn't trust my singing ability. I have experience.. I watched my husband win this contest a few years ago, that means I have the experience and skills to win this. I just want my   chance.. and my family wants a second chance in the spotlight."


**Stop the Drama.. Vote Obama**
by Winterblink on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:56:10 AM EST

You owe me a new keyboard (none / 0)

I just spit my latte all over this one...


by Sinocco on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:34:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Horseshit (none / 0)

Hillary's "lead" in the popular vote has significant problems:

1) It counts the invalid primary elections in Michigan and Florida, and gives Obama zero votes in Michigan, a state where he was not on the ballot

2) It does not count ANY caucus state in the vote total.

In the reality-based community, Obama leads by between 600,000 and 800,000 votes.


by amiches on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 08:37:17 AM EST

Re: Turning the Tide - Together (2.00 / 1)

As usual Alegre, an intelligent, documented and well linked diary.  I suspect there is still some resentment of you and anything you say because you did not bow to a certain blog owner.  How dare you, a mere woman, look smarter, more articulate and more reasoned.  How dare you be more about the democratic process than getting your face and name out there so you can get called to sit and bs with the likes of Matthews, Olberman and the other boys who need their egos fed constantly.

I cannot believe how easily led and manipulated some are.  Then again these are people who have joined the process because it's like being a part of American Idol.  Sad but true.  


by Jjc2008 on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:08:00 AM EST

Yes, we Obamasogynists (none / 0)

all resent Alegre because she's a "smart" woman.

Alegre does fine on the personal story stuff, but the campaign-related writing is bad.  What isn't cut and pasted from campaign websites is mostly platitudes like "she's the real deal folks".

Her numbers are inaccurate (it was NOT a double-digit win, and she also claimed a 10-point Ohio win as 16 points), she makes no effort to study the actual process and shows very little original thought.  She conveniently omitted the fact that caucus votes weren't counted in her bogus totals.

If Alegre's writing style represents the Hillary campaign's approach, it's no wonder she's losing the prize she was heavily favored to win.


by corph on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 11:00:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yes, we Obamasogynists (2.00 / 1)

Thank you father for explaining it all to me.  A poor lowly woman could never understand it the way you do and explain how one SHOULD FEEL, SHOULD INTERPRET and WHAT SOURCE TO USE.

As I said, the "talking down" paternalizing from the Obama folks on the Net, the elitist mentality, the disenfranchising and personal attacks on anyone who does not worship the messiah is reminiscent of the Bush people.  

Thank you very much but despite being an older woman, I can make my way around the net, check out resources and know the difference between numbers and understand rounding off and spin, from wherever it comes.


by Jjc2008 on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:55:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Tell me, how do you round a 10-point win (none / 0)

to 16?  I prefer accurate sources, myself (guess that makes me "elitist").  You are free to prefer Alegre's made-up or misremembered ones, of course.

I explained why I don't like Alegre's writing style.  Should she be immune from criticism because she's a woman, and so is her candidate?

And what does effectively calling me an Obama-worshipper make you?  Personal attacks, indeed.  For the record, I supported Edwards until his financing decisions made him unviable.

Oh yeah, and look up "disenfranchising".  Doesn't apply to primaries.


by corph on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:41:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

My suggested focus (none / 0)

Hi all,

Today's diaries are moving very fast, and I would like to ask you to check out my suggested focus-points here:
http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/4/24/9123 /36734

I'd like for other supporters to see it, but it has been pushed to the bottom by the flood we've experienced since Obama's stinging defeat.


by bobbank on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:41:04 AM EST

I feel unstung. (none / 0)

A little disappointed that I will have to listen to Hillary on television for another two weeks or so, but that's it.

I don't disagree with issue-focus, but incorporating sloganesque "solutions" rhetoric makes the eyes glaze over.  It's a bit late in the game anyway.

This part is funny:

 In addition to his financial edge, our opponent is strongly favored by the state's demographics.

Yeah, don't give Obama publicity by naming him on a Democratic blog!


by corph on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 11:06:38 AM EST

Don't be so sensitive (none / 0)

He is named no less than three times in my diary.


by bobbank on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 11:49:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Well I'm not offended by it. (none / 0)

I just found it a tad amusing, because other than that your post wasn't too campaign-rhetoric-y.  I sure thought it was better than most of the Alegre screeds.


by corph on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 12:44:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The tide came in. Your ship sank. (none / 0)

First of all. 9.4% isn't double digits.

Second, it's all over. She can no longer make even a remote case that she will win the most pledged delegates. Obama is the nominee. I'm curious Alegre. Will he have your wholehearted support?


Your old role is rapidly aging. Please get out of the new one if you can't lend a hand, for the times they are a changing.
by Travis Stark on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 01:08:02 PM EST

Re: The tide came in. Your ship sank. (none / 0)

Why can't she get AA support? They are the bacxkbone of the democratic party. They account for 25% OF dEM VOTER'S.

NC is big and she needs to win it to make her case. On avg: Obama is up + 15.5%

She has never won a state where she is down in Poll's going into the primary especially 15-20 pts.


by BDM on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 01:17:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Ishoni! (none / 0)

Ishoni Obama!


yo mir kennen
by RisingTide on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 01:34:55 PM EST

Re: Turning the Tide - Together (none / 0)

Jon Stewart addresses "the tide"
http://www.comedycentral.com/videos/inde x.jhtml?videoId=166850
"If you want to end war and stuff, you gotta sing loud"...Arlo Guthrie
by nogo war on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 01:48:40 PM EST

Re: Turning the Tide - Together (1.50 / 2)

Dear Alegre,

We are not stupid.

That is all.


by FinneganOregon on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:50:10 PM EST

Huffing Paint Thinner Kills Brain Cells (none / 0)

And so does...

well you know


by bernardpliers on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:02:49 PM EST

One good thing about Hillary losing (none / 0)

is that we won't be subjected to any more of alegre's endless Hillary cheerleading.


by bigdcdem on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:43:07 PM EST

Re: One good thing about Hillary losing (none / 0)

is that we won't be subjected to any more of alegre's endless Hillary cheerleading.

I can't wait  
My DD will be like Berlin June  1945


President Barack Obama "get used to it"
by wellinformed on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:00:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Turning the Tide - Together (none / 0)

Why didn't Clinton Close the Deal in Iowa?
Super-Duper Tuesday? Now?

Hey, are you saying last November your candidate was NOT the front runner?

How could the Clinton machine Not out raise Obama?

The "deal" is the nomination. Obama has already closed it..we are just waiting for the end on 6/4


"If you want to end war and stuff, you gotta sing loud"...Arlo Guthrie
by nogo war on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 06:48:45 PM EST


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