MyDD :: Black Voters Split 92-8% for Obama in Pennsylvania

Black Voters Split 92-8% for Obama in Pennsylvania

by Jacob Freeze, Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:40:53 PM EST

Barack Obama won the black vote 92-8% in Pennsylvania, and it's typical of his margins in other primaries:

89-11% in Ohio, 91-8% in Wisconsin, 88-11% in Georgia, and an average of more than 80-17% in all the primaries so far.

It's understandable that black voters may be very eager to see the first black President, but voting by color is a long way from Dr. Martin Luther King's dream for America:

"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."

Some fanatical Obama supporters may try to explain this division by claiming that Bill and Hillary Clinton have somehow been exposed as "racists," now, after 25 years in public office, and 8 years in the White House when they did more to improve the economic condition of black people than any administration since Franklin Roosevelt.

No sane person can believe that either Bill or Hillary Clinton is a racist, and the only real evidence of racism in the current election cycle is the almost incredibly skewed voting by color in the Democratic primaries.

Tags: Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton (all tags)

Permalink :: 93 Comments :: Post a Comment

Re: Black Voters Split 92-8% for Obama in Pennsyl (2.00 / 2)

HIllary KILLS in the white women vote,

I doubt you are suggesting this is based on her being a woman are you?

Congratulations to Barack Obama, the presumptive Presumptive Democratic Nominee

by TruthMatters on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:42:47 PM EST

Re: Black Voters Split 92-8% for Obama in Pennsyl (2.00 / 1)

females is not a race, it's a GENDER

by TaiChiMaster on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:44:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Black Voters Split 92-8% for Obama in Pennsyl (none / 0)

I don't think i used the word race in my post

Congratulations to Barack Obama, the presumptive Presumptive Democratic Nominee

by TruthMatters on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:46:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

He's lucky he's black.. because otherwise.. (2.00 / 1)

black people would be tearing him apart on things like his heathcare plan, which is going to cost many people or all races (everybody who is not 'normal' I would guess..) so much more in uncovered costs..

Thats why his economic advisor has admitted that 1/5 of all Americans will cost too much to insure under it.

Basically, thats everyone with a pre-eisting condition. Note that 'not discriminating' is extremely deceptive because INSURANCE IS PRICED BY RISK and he does NOTHING to change that AS HILLARY IS GOING TO DO.

Obama says that insurance companies will have to quote everybody a 'fair price'. In many states, there already are laws which implement this. They create high risk pools charging 'fair prices' for people who are not covered by group plans or who have pre-existing conditions. They are very expensive because only the sick buy them. For example, in my state, a plan for a 50ish couple that covers drugs costs around $2500 a month.

Universal healthcare IS a Democratic value
It's been defeated
Obama has the best $PIN that money can buy.

by architek on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 07:42:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Black Voters Split 92-8% for Obama in Pennsyl (none / 0)

Come on now! They just realize she is the more able candidate. The problem is with the rest of us that do not see that :-)

by hania on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:45:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Well,...she is! (2.00 / 1)

by CoyoteCreek on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:49:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

She is more able in ... (none / 0)

raising more money from lobbyists of all kinds. And you guys are trying to convince us she is the advocate of the working class. It would be funny if it were not preposterous.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LY0AqYXZ C4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eBYnvF-I v4&feature=user

by hania on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 07:05:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Dooh!!! (none / 0)

My comment was in reaction to this one...

"They just realize she is the more able candidate."

by CoyoteCreek on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 08:09:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Identity politics happens (2.00 / 3)

But Clinton does not approach these 90% numbers with white women.

It appears that a significant number of white women will vote for Obama, but the reverse is not true: there does not appear to be a signifcant number of black women who vote for Clinton. It suggests that race/ethnicity is stronger for African American women than gender is for European American women.

Unlike the diarist, I am not offering an opinion on whether that is good or not. It, however, appears to be true to a degree.

One possible explanation is that an oppressed minority tends to view the identity about which they are oppressed in a stronger way. Some African Ameircan women may view their oppression primarily to be about race and not gender, assuming they are oppressed or that they view it that way. But that is just one possibe explanation.

There is a tendecey of white women to favor Clinton. But it is not as strong of a force as being black and voting for Obama. 88% to 90% is a lot.

In states with a significant African American population, Obama starts off with a big plus. South Carolina and Mississippi were great examples (Dem primaries). On the other hand, where the percentages of Black Dems approximate the nation as a whole (roughly 15%), I would think the numbers would favor Clinton becuase thwre are more white women, even though a greater precentage will vote for Obama, then African Americans would vote for Clinton.

Since both canddiates are somewhat similar on many issues, the race has partially devolved into personality and identity.

Again, I am not adopting the diarist commetns regarding MLK and black voters today.

by TomP on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:54:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Identity politics happens (2.00 / 1)

True dat. I call this the Oprah phenomenon. Ms. Winfrey publicly begged Hillary to run for President over two years ago. When Obama entered the race, much debate occured over the whole "is she black first or a woman first?" We know how that question was answered, and she is not alone in her choice.

No politician ever lost an election because he underestimated the intelligence of the American public. - PT Barnum, paraphrased...

by jarhead5536 on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:56:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

If Obama is nominated, then wins the Presidency (none / 0)

and he turns out to be FAR to the right of where many of his current backers expect him to be on economic policy and they realize that whatever he is going to do on healthcare, he is putting it off till 2012, and in that four years, things keep getting worse, quickly- do you think black people will demonstrate against him?

They will probably be hit harder than a lot of other people, as they are struggling more economically.

Universal healthcare IS a Democratic value
It's been defeated
Obama has the best $PIN that money can buy.

by architek on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 07:47:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Identity politics happens (2.00 / 1)

the last great Shirley Chisholm:
"I've always met more discrimination being a woman than being black," she told The Associated Press in December 1982, shortly before she left Washington to teach at Mount Holyoke College in Massachusetts. "When I ran for the Congress, when I ran for president, I met more discrimination as a woman than for being black. Men are men."

by colebiancardi on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 10:36:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Identity politics happens (none / 0)

I happen to think Rep. Chisolm was correct. The Big O (as opposed to Sen. Obama, who in comparison will always be Little O) actually surprised me.

No politician ever lost an election because he underestimated the intelligence of the American public. - PT Barnum, paraphrased...

by jarhead5536 on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 11:14:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Black Voters Split 92-8% for Obama in Pennsyl (2.00 / 1)

HIllary KILLS in the white women vote

From PA, she won that group 68-32.

Imagine if the black vote broke for Obama at that big margin 68-32, instead of 92-8. He would be out of the race now.

Next talking point?

by reggie44pride on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:54:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Black Voters Split 92-8% for Obama in Pennsyl (none / 0)

And if white women broke 50-50 throughout the primary race should would have been out months ago...So what?

I'm Ready For A Good Old GOP & John McCain Ass Kickin'!!!

by hootie4170 on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 07:04:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Black Voters Split 92-8% for Obama in Pennsyl (2.00 / 8)

I'm just sayin, fellow black people like myself are voting as a bloc in a way that I find slightly unnerving. When the MS primary was over, and whites went 70-30 for Clinton and blacks 93-7 for Obama, I did not think that was a victory for racial equality.

Just my view man.

Peace

by reggie44pride on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 07:08:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Black Voters Split 92-8% for Obama in Pennsyl (2.00 / 1)

Thanks for being civil...

I'm Ready For A Good Old GOP & John McCain Ass Kickin'!!!

by hootie4170 on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 07:11:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Black Voters Split 92-8% for Obama in Pennsyl (none / 0)

That's Mississippi, not exactly a state famous for racial equality. It's come a long way since the 1960s, but it's still deeply polarized on racial lines.

by elrod on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 07:50:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Black Voters Split 92-8% for Obama in Pennsyl (none / 0)

It's no better anywhere in the country than it is in Mississippi.

Philadelphia, the "cradle of liberty," is a great example. It's almost totally segregated by race. When you walk around Philadelphia, the tension between black and white people is immense. You just look the other way because all you see in the eyes of people from a different race is mistrust, dislike, and suspicion. I have a white ex who once said "I never hated black people until I moved to Philadelphia." He was a pretty maladjusted guy it turned out, but comments like the above were more definite indicators that there's no real harmony in Philly.

I've heard countless horror stories of black people being treated absolutely horribly in Boston. From what I could gather, it was regarded as the worst of the worst on the East Coast in terms of racism.

In the south, the racism is a bit more up front. In the north, it's insidious and festers there under a guise of "politeness."

I've been feeling pretty weird lately about the race issue in this primary. As much as I love Hillary, it really bothers me to have an unprecedented champion for the AA community and to see him possibly be torn down like so many once highly regarded Black public figures before him, Michael Jackson, etc. It felt really weird to be rooting against Philadelphia when in every other election, I always want Philly to have high turnout and huge margins.

2004 swing state margins: PA-2%, OH-2%, IA-1%, WI-0.5%, MI-3%, FL-5%, NM-1%; Alienating 50% of the party is a luxury we can't afford.

by BPK80 on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 08:46:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

No, its not. (2.00 / 1)

When I first heard about Obama, I was excited, because he's black and smart, and God knows, we need more black and smart politcians. But the more I looked into him on issues that matter to me, the less I liked him.

I think there's a lot of wishful thinking going on right now and its not going to lead to happiness if hopes are broken.

BTW, I'm not black, I'm white, but I grew up in a single parent family, very poor kid in a middle class community.. and had issues of various kinds I had to deal with that make me perhaps more sympathetic I think than many to what black people have to deal with to make it.

I see two Obamas, one is the one thats formally laid out, and the other is the issue-evading ultra-talented speaker..

If Obama was really a progressive in more than 'hope', I would support him. But I think he's a phony.

Universal healthcare IS a Democratic value
It's been defeated
Obama has the best $PIN that money can buy.

by architek on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 07:54:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No, its not. (2.00 / 1)

Agreed.

I guess this is my candid moment today. I've always been a big advocate for racial balance. I always liked the spirit of the AA community and hated all the bs they had to go through. It bothers me to be rooting against THEIR candidate.

The problem is I just don't like Barack Obama himself. The more I see of him, the more it turns into a stronger dislike. I think he's arrogant for not having the prudence to garner some experience and build himself before running for president. I would have loved to see a Woman President followed by a Black president. Instead, it has become an "either/or" scenario. It bothers me so much that Barack Obama's reckless impatience has taken these two historic firsts and put them IN OPPOSITION to one another. Hillary had the nomination in the bag until Mr. "Well I'm not experienced, but I give a good speech" Obama came running along. Mr. "My Health Care Plan hurts Black Families, but they'll vote for me anyway cause I'm Black" Obama.

His platform is all hot-air and his only strength is a wavering degree of charisma that would better suit him to play President on TV than to actually commit to the hard work that governs the job.

2004 swing state margins: PA-2%, OH-2%, IA-1%, WI-0.5%, MI-3%, FL-5%, NM-1%; Alienating 50% of the party is a luxury we can't afford.

by BPK80 on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 08:57:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Well, she doesn't kill nearly as high of a % (2.00 / 1)

If Obama received the kind of margins among black voters that Hillary receives among white women, he would be nowhere close to where he is now.

Clinton's percentages among white women have mostly varied between 55%-65%. That's a long way from 80% to 95%.

by lombard on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 08:38:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

let me know when women are voting (none / 0)

for her at 90 percent. Then I will worry about it.

In the meantime when the most qualified, most knowledgeable candidate happens to be a woman, give her the job.

For Obama it now becomes: Faith, hope and CHANGE! And the greatest of these is Change!

by TeresaInPa on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 08:40:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Black Voters Split 92-8% for Obama in Pennsyl (2.00 / 2)

It's the way things go, I can't blame black people for being excited to vote for the first viable black man to be President. Would I like them to take a look at Hillary and make an honest decision? Yes.

Restore America's Strength.

by RJEvans on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:44:23 PM EST

Re: Black Voters Split 92-8% for Obama in Pennsyl (2.00 / 1)

We did.

John McCain on social security.

by heresjohnny on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:46:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Black Voters Split 92-8% for Obama in Pennsyl (2.00 / 1)

I know I did.

really hate when people make this argument, you ARE calling me a racist by the way.

Congratulations to Barack Obama, the presumptive Presumptive Democratic Nominee

by TruthMatters on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:49:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Black Voters Split 92-8% for Obama in Pennsyl (2.00 / 1)

The poster said that African-Americans are the racists. Given everything about America I find that incredibly amusing. Interestingly, African-Americans do not just vote along racial lines and if the poster had done any research into past presidential candidates or other candidates for lower offices he/she would have known that. Sadly, this election is bringing out the color-blind racists. They are the most irritating kind.

John McCain on social security.

by heresjohnny on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 07:06:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Oh, yeah (none / 0)

Is that why the black caucus is formally endorsing the black challengers to the current Memphis area congressman, a white man who managed to squeak by in the primary when black voters split their votes among multiple candidates? From what I understand, this guy has practically stood on his head and walked on his hands to appease his constituents and African American colleagues, but, hey, none of that matters because he isn't the right shade.

by lombard on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 08:42:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh, yeah (none / 0)

Right. He walked on water for African-Americans. What a joke.

I'll see your pathetic anecdote and raise you Steve Cohen and John Edwards.

John McCain on social security.

by heresjohnny on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 09:25:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Get used to it.. (2.00 / 1)

in an election that is now sooo much about race...

Everyone is calling everyone else a racist =)

If you follow history with a long enough arc, things always get better, and the truth always prevails...Gandhi

by SevenStrings on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 07:30:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

If the shoe fits! (none / 0)

Just because you say it isn't so doesn't mean that I have to believe you. I'd rather believe my lying eyes than a bunch of people making excuses for a 90% to 10% voting pattern.

Lester Maddox wasn't racist either, then. He just made a business judgment that it would be better for everyone if black people didn't sit at his lunch counter.

by lombard on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 08:46:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If the shoe fits! (none / 0)

It's your white privilege not too.

John McCain on social security.

by heresjohnny on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 09:26:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Black Voters Split 92-8% for Obama in Pennsyl (2.00 / 2)

It's heartbreaking to me that in 2008 we have not moved one inch beyond identity politics. It is abundantly clear that neither of our candidates need have bothered to give one policy speech. Everything has been demographics, demographics, demographics, and that is so sad...

No politician ever lost an election because he underestimated the intelligence of the American public. - PT Barnum, paraphrased...

by jarhead5536 on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:47:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yes, it is heartbreaking... (none / 0)

it is almost asl if this election was decided in South Carolina, and all the fuss is simply about counting the votes...

If you follow history with a long enough arc, things always get better, and the truth always prevails...Gandhi

by SevenStrings on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 07:36:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yes, it is heartbreaking... (none / 0)

To be perfectly honest, neither candidate is not immune to this garbage. Hillary has largely won or lost where she has based on demographics although some of her losses are due to the "the Clintons are evil and I won't believe anything different no matter what" demographic), no matter how brilliant her policy positions.

We are effing sheep.

No politician ever lost an election because he underestimated the intelligence of the American public. - PT Barnum, paraphrased...

by jarhead5536 on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 07:44:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Older white women vote overwhelmingly (none / 0)

for Clinton. Are they only voting their race & gender?

John McCain on social security.

by heresjohnny on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:46:31 PM EST

And (none / 0)

age I guess.

John McCain on social security.

by heresjohnny on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:47:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

they are voting for the candidate (2.00 / 1)

who is the most experienced, the best on policy, the most progressive... since that happens to be a woman, all the better. Why the hell shouldn't they vote for the best candidate AND because she is a woman?
And it is not just white women. Latino and Asian women are also voting for her in large numbers.
Think about it, women didn't flock to Mosley-Braun or Liddy Dole, so it is obviously not about gender.

So let me know when women have the sense to vote for her at 90 percent, and I will throw a party.

For Obama it now becomes: Faith, hope and CHANGE! And the greatest of these is Change!

by TeresaInPa on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 08:52:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: they are voting for the candidate (none / 0)

Right. So for the black folks it's all about race. Comedy.

John McCain on social security.

by heresjohnny on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 09:27:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Black Voters Split 92-8% for Obama in Pennsyl (2.00 / 3)

Inside the numbers, she did do better among AA women in PA according to CNN.

"The Bumble Bee flies because it thinks it can."

by LadyEagle on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:46:35 PM EST

Re: Black Voters Split 92-8% for Obama in Pennsyl (none / 0)

Did you know that ~59 percent of Penn votes who thought race "was a very important issue" broke for Hillary. How does that jive with Dr. King's message?

refercence: http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/ 04/23/the-race-factor-in-pa-primary/

by gcensr on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:47:57 PM EST

90 percent of Black people (2.00 / 2)

are supporting Obama and we are supposed to think race is not important to them? Sorry, that doesn't wash no matter what they said.

For Obama it now becomes: Faith, hope and CHANGE! And the greatest of these is Change!

by TeresaInPa on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 09:03:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

As far as the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. (none / 0)

He was for both affirmative-action and reparations. Any pretense that he was color blind is ignoring the facts.

John McCain on social security.

by heresjohnny on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:49:02 PM EST

Re: Black Voters Split 92-8% for Obama in Pennsyl (none / 0)

How do you then explain the fact that Hillary is winning white women by 60+ percent? Perhaps there are some voting for her because she's a woman?

"I am standing with Barack Obama to say, `Yes, we can!'" Hillary Clinton 6/7/08

by feliks on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:51:49 PM EST

Re: Black Voters Split 92-8% for Obama in Pennsyl (none / 0)

Without Bill Clinton, Obama would only be winning blacks 65%-35%.

by nwodtuhs on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:54:13 PM EST

Re: Black Voters Split 92-8% for Obama in Pennsyl (2.00 / 3)

You mean without Obama's campaign race baiting Bill Clinton.

I grew up in Bronx as a half-black, half-white boy, a few years older than Obama.

I know race baiting when I see it.

Clinton's done it too. But don't you believe for a second Obama's camp didn't get that ball rolling.

It's why I was so into Edwards. Very tired of the race card politics these two have engaged in.

by reggie44pride on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:57:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama race-baited? (none / 0)

By pointing out racist comments or something else?

John McCain on social security.

by heresjohnny on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 07:07:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You NAILED it my friend (none / 0)

That's exactly what's going on. I have this crazy theory that Bill Clinton does not really want Hillary to become President. I mean, why on earth the "best political mind" around keeps screwing up???

by hania on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 07:15:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You NAILED it my friend (none / 0)

i think it's medical, actually. This kind of lability is common after bypass surgery. Compassion.

by rhetoricus on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 07:34:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You NAILED it my friend (2.00 / 1)

"i think it's medical, actually. This kind of lability is common after bypass surgery. Compassion."

Yes, this is my take on it exactly. They have to use a cardiopulmonary bypass process during the procedure that is believed to cause microemboli, and many, many patients experience serious memory impairment and lability afterwards. It doesn't get better over time, either.

It does save lives, but does not leave you unscathed.

by 07rescue on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 08:45:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Black Voters Split 92-8% for Obama in Pennsyl (2.00 / 2)

This is a racist dialog to begin with.

You are accusing Blacks of how and why they voted.

You are accusing our most loyal base of voting simply on race.

How crappy for you to marginalize our party's strongest demographic.

Unable to rec or rate

Read this: http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/5/15/1427 30/254

by GeorgeP922 on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:54:42 PM EST

Re: Black Voters Split 92-8% for Obama (none / 0)

So what? I'd bet that Christians have voted by at least the same margins for Christian presidential candidates. I guess it's understandable that they'd be excited to get their 44th Christian president, but voting by religious denomination is a long way from the American dream as embodied in the Constitution, which provides there shall be no religious tests for holding public office.

by Mobar on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:55:19 PM EST

That's it! (2.00 / 1)

I'm sitting out and not voting until there is a Buddhist on the ballot!!!

by nwgates on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 07:25:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

actually i think that figure came from exit polls (none / 0)

which were tilted towards Obama,saying he'd lose by only 4, but actually lost by 10 (rounded OK?)

DEMOCRATIC 08!

by rigsoHC on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:57:12 PM EST

So what is the point of this diary (2.00 / 0)

to say that black people vote for Obama just b/c he's black?

Pretty shaky argument....we could easily also say that women vote for Hillary b/c she's a woman...also pretty shaky argument.

by southernman on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 07:02:59 PM EST

Okay, so where are the advantages, then? (none / 0)

I just don't see them. Its all talk..

Universal healthcare IS a Democratic value
It's been defeated
Obama has the best $PIN that money can buy.

by architek on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 07:57:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Okay, so where are the advantages, then? (none / 0)

Look at the polls. He's winning in Colorado against McCain. He's a dead heat in NC (which Clinton isn't). He's winning in virtually every battleground that Dems have won in recent elections (MN, Oregon, WA, IA, NM etc..) He's beating McCain in PA as well (though Clinton has a bigger margin right now I'll grant you.)

Clinton isn't bringing anything electorally that Obama can't counter.

he's winning in CA by a BIGGER margin than Hillary is. He's in a dead heat in VA, with Clinton far behind. Clinton is losing FL to McCain in polls also.

The advantages are plenty. I'm not arguing that Clinton doesn't have any, she does. But the argument that only she can win, and Obama is simply a waiting disaster..are ridiculous.

by southernman on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 10:46:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Black Voters Split 92-8% for (none / 0)

So, almost all of the old white women in PA went for Hillary.

by Spanky on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 07:03:50 PM EST

Re: Black Voters Split 92-8% for Obama in Pennsyl (2.00 / 1)

This brings up the MSM latest talking point about Barack not being able to carry the needed support from white "blue collar" voters in the GE. Isn't there an argument to be made about the AA vote?? You need to carry 70%+ of the AA vote in the GE to win and she is at 11%.....Hmmmmmm.

I'm Ready For A Good Old GOP & John McCain Ass Kickin'!!!

by hootie4170 on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 07:08:48 PM EST

Re: Black Voters Split 92-8% for Obama in Pennsyl (2.00 / 2)

Another diary that convinces me alot of us are getting duped by RNC operatives.

To the site moderators, how many Repubs have been kicked out.

I am seeing cyclical instances of it and this is a clear one.

Unable to rec or rate

Read this: http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/5/15/1427 30/254

by GeorgeP922 on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 07:09:25 PM EST

Blacks who like Obama (2.00 / 2)

are racists. Ok. Got it.

Identity politics is alive and well. Actually, it always has been. It's just that different identities (women/black) are finally being offered up as winners, and everyone's all hot and bothered over that.

Usually, our choice is, which old white guy am I going to project my hopes onto. This season, it's altogether different.

So nice try. Stupid diary.

by SeanF on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 07:11:01 PM EST

LBJ (2.00 / 1)

"Some fanatical Obama supporters may try to explain this division by claiming that Bill and Hillary Clinton have somehow been exposed as "racists," now, after 25 years in public office, and 8 years in the White House when they did more to improve the economic condition of black people than any administration since Franklin Roosevelt."

I hardly think Bill and Hillary are racists, but at the same time Bill's administration did not do more to improve the economic condition of black people since FDR. That honor belongs to LBJ and the Civil Rights Act.

by DreamsOfABlueNation on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 07:21:56 PM EST

Re: LBJ (none / 0)

They aren't themselves racists, but they appealed to racist sentiments (see my comment below) to evoke negativity toward Obama.

by rhetoricus on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 07:31:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: LBJ (none / 0)

I think its a debateable point. But as others on this site have mentioned, Obama may also be accused of having appealed to sexist sentiments with, for example, his comment that Hillary did nothing more than have tea with foreign leaders in rebutting her claim that she was instrumental in Bill's foreign affairs. Rather than get into a tizzy about which of our candidates is a bigger bigot, I would rather give both sides the benefit of the doubt, agree that both candidates are reasonable and tolerant people, and try to promote the unity we will need to win in Nov.

by DreamsOfABlueNation on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 07:36:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: LBJ (none / 0)

"...Hillary did nothing more than have tea with foreign leaders in rebutting her claim that she was instrumental in Bill's foreign affairs."

That's a stretch. This IS traditionally what the spouses of presidents do. I imagine it's what the spouses of Finland and Germany's presidents do also. Hillary hasn't really come up with a concrete example of what she specifically did as First Lady that counted as experience that hasn't gotten her laughed off the stage.

by rhetoricus on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 07:41:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: LBJ (none / 0)

For the most part I agree with you. On the other hand, I think its fair to say that she has been one of the more active First Ladies in substantive foreign affairs--not that that means she has been all that active. Her claims that she was instrumental in bringing peace to N. Ireland or opening the borders to Kosovoan refugees are utterly without merit but she has at least gone to some of these places and talked with foreign leaders. Thats more than drinking tea but nowhere near the role she claims she has had. Like I said I think it is insane to suggest that Obama thinks women are inferior to men or that he was trying to be sexist in talking about tea, though I admit he could have chosen his words better. Either way, both sides have made mistakes and there's no need to dwell on them if we want to win in Nov.

by DreamsOfABlueNation on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 07:48:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: LBJ (none / 0)

I agree for the most part.

I think his wording was indeed a "mistake." (I also think Michelle wears the pants in his family.)

I think Hillary's choices to play the "scary black man" cards were calculated, and they've cost her in some demographics.

by rhetoricus on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 07:52:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The Black American vote (2.00 / 1)

The black US vote was Hillary's to lose, and once she used Scaife to attack Obama on the Wright hysteria (this after she and Bill had invited Wright to the White House as political cover during the Lewinsky scandal), played the "elitist" (aka "uppity negro") card, threw the name of Ayers around (after Bill had commuted the sentences of convicted WU members) and mentioned Farrakahn, Wright and Hamas in the same breath on national TV ("be scared of the scaaaaaaaaary black men, everyone--they're terrorists"), she lost it that support.

Her doing.

by rhetoricus on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 07:30:49 PM EST

You do recall South Carolina, dont you ? (none / 0)

She lost the black vote in SC...which happened before all those events you mentioned.

Clearly those events (which had not yet happened) must have been responsible

If you follow history with a long enough arc, things always get better, and the truth always prevails...Gandhi

by SevenStrings on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 07:34:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You do recall South Carolina, dont you ? (none / 0)

Not by nearly the margins, though. there has been a MASSIVE defection.

by rhetoricus on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 07:38:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You do recall South Carolina, dont you ? (none / 0)

Don`t forget Bill Shaheen insinuating that Obama was a drug dealer in December. Also Bill Clinton telling people the day before the New Hampshire primary that Obama opposition to the war in Iraq was the biggest fairy tale he had ever seen.

by Gabbo on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 09:23:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

and how is fairy tale racist ? (none / 0)

If you follow history with a long enough arc, things always get better, and the truth always prevails...Gandhi

by SevenStrings on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 10:13:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Black Voters Split 92-8% for Obama in Pennsyl (2.00 / 1)

I'm getting awfully tired of seeing diaries calling African-Americans (the most loyal Democratic group in the country) racist because they are overwhelmingly supporting a black candidate. The white resentment I'm seeing is truly saddening.

by Skaje on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 07:34:15 PM EST

Re: Black Voters Split 92-8% for Obama in Pennsyl (2.00 / 1)

You realize that a lot of Clinton supporters are pretty sick of being called racists just because they prefer her. Many of those Clinton supporters are from very similarly loyal Democratic demographics too.

by LakersFan on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 07:46:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Black Voters Split 92-8% for Obama in Pennsyl (2.00 / 1)

I think most people realize most Clinton supporters are NOT racist.

The Clintons are a known quantity to many people, many women would like to see a woman president, many people see Hillary as more aggressive in foreign policy and they like that, many are part of the DLC/Centrist/"free trade" crowd, many prefer her health care plan. Some think Obama is too green.

All that said, of course, racism does play a part in some peoples' votes. As gender does for some (though I think for Hillary gender would play a much more daunting role if voters didn't get the sense that they were also re-electing Bill. If she were running entirely alone, without the name "Clinton," I think she'd have a lot more trouble with sexism.)

by rhetoricus on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 07:59:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Black Voters Split 92-8% for Obama in Pennsyl (none / 0)

I hope most people realize that. Seems that white working class Pennsylvanians have been accused of it a lot this past week.

by LakersFan on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 08:08:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Black Voters Split 92-8% for Obama in Pennsyl (none / 0)

Well, I know a good number of white, working class Catholics (Poles, Italians and Irish) and I would not call them "racist," but I'd call them suspicious of someone who isn't known or who doesn't seem like "one of them" (this can be interpreted broadly). It's not that they wouldn't vote for a black candidate, but I think he'd have a harder road and he'd have to have won them over pretty bigtime.

"Racism" I think is too broad and simplistic a term for this particular dynamic. That said, their assessment of a candidate (I'm speaking of the guys I know) isn't as intellectual and policy-based as I'd like it to be (I mean, many of these voted for W and weren't able to see him as the silver spoon Andover-Yale cheerleader brat that he was, until it was too late).

by rhetoricus on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:33:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Black Voters Split 92-8% for Obama in Pennsyl (none / 0)

I agree. I don't think it's fair to call that racism. People have all sorts of rational and irrational reasons for voting the way they do, and candidates do have to work harder to gain the support of people who aren't just like them, often with little success. That's just the nature of the game.

by LakersFan on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:33:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

That doesn't justify this garbage. (1.00 / 1)

This is trash. Calling African-American voters racists because they support Obama is disgusting and despicable.

by Bob Johnson on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 08:20:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That doesn't justify this garbage. (none / 0)

Who called them racist?

by LakersFan on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 08:58:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Did you read the diary? (2.00 / 0)

... the only real evidence of racism in the current election cycle is the almost incredibly skewed voting by color in the Democratic primaries.

by Bob Johnson on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 09:07:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Did you read the diary? (none / 0)

By beginning your response to my post with "This is trash", you made it sound like I called African Americans racists. That's what I was questioning. Maybe if you had been more specific we could have avoided this confusion.

by LakersFan on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 09:40:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Why would you recommend a diary that calls (2.00 / 0)

... African American Democrats "racists?"

Because that's what you did.

So now you disagree with the diarist?

The Following Users Have Recommended This Diary:

campskunk
LakersFan
cameoanne
BPK80
jarhead5536
pan230oh
4justice

by Bob Johnson on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:21:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why would you recommend a diary that calls (2.00 / 1)

I don't have to agree with every word in a diary to think it makes a valid point. I regularly recommend diaries that cover interesting topics, even if I don't completely agree with the author's conclusions.

by LakersFan on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:32:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

So you think recommending a diary that calls (1.00 / 1)

... African-American Democrats "racists" for voting Obama is okay because there is other redeeming content in the diary.

Really?

by Bob Johnson on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 11:46:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Black Voters Split 92-8% for Obama in Pennsyl (2.00 / 1)

And how does Hillary win the Presidency without overwhelming support from blacks? She loses PA, OH, IL, MI, WI, FL, NJ and maybe CA without overwhelming support from blacks. That's why these electability arguments are so silly. Obama needs working class white women and Latinos and Clinton needs blacks and educated white liberals. Without all four groups, McCain is President.

by elrod on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 07:53:24 PM EST

You are truly sad. (1.00 / 1)

... the only real evidence of racism in the current election cycle is the almost incredibly skewed voting by color in the Democratic primaries.

So blacks voting for Obama are racist?

I'm afraid you've exposed more of your own character (or lack thereof) in this post than in any racial group you're calling racist.

This is a sick, sad post.

by Bob Johnson on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 08:18:49 PM EST

By the way, here's who recommends calling (1.25 / 4)

... African-Americans who support Obama "racists":

campskunk
LakersFan
jarhead5536
pan230oh
4justice

This is one of the most despicable posts I've ever seen on thsi board, and that's saying something.

Jerome, Todd and Jonathan, take note...

by Bob Johnson on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 08:23:01 PM EST

Reasons for Rec (2.00 / 2)

Recommended for starting the discussion. You don't solve racial issues by pretending they don't exist.

2004 swing state margins: PA-2%, OH-2%, IA-1%, WI-0.5%, MI-3%, FL-5%, NM-1%; Alienating 50% of the party is a luxury we can't afford.

by BPK80 on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 09:08:41 PM EST

The AA vote was Clinton's to lose (2.00 / 1)

And she lost it by making some dumb comments. She had the AA vote in polling before the primaries started. Then she made the LBJ/MLK comment and she lost a good chunk. Then her husband made a worse comment and she lost a greater chunk. Then Ferraro opened her mouth and afterwards Hillary threw 8,000 black congregants under the bus in order to pile on Obama. That's where she lost all but 10% of the black vote.

Look, clearly some black people will vote for Barack because he's black. Just like 13% of whites in PA who felt race was important overwhelmingly broke for Hillary. But the majority of blacks are simply offended by repeated gaffes of racial insensitivity by elements of the Clinton campaign. You don't think McCain knows this too. He's been to the MLK memorial on MLK day and last week went to Selma. He's offering himself as an alternative to Clinton should she win the nomination.

by shalca on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 09:15:29 PM EST

Black & White / Obama & Hillary (none / 0)

As much as I try and ingore it, it can really suck to be black in America. I appreciate the immense effort made by whites to acccomadate the racial sensitivities of black people. I know full well it is a mine field and its easy to get smacked with an unfair label. Hillary and Bill Clinton were experts at navigating this mine field.

The fact is they will do anything to win, and a lot of Hillary supporters will do anything to help them win. Those gaffes were significant in allowing blacks to abandon the Clintons guilt free. In the same way Pastor Wright allows whites to hate Obama for a seemingly legitmate reason.

Barak Obama is a tremendous leader, he has inspired the nation and altered the culture just by running for President. If you dont acknowledge the impact of his speech on race, think back a few months before the term WHITE RESENTMENT was in the lexicon. At that time white people could not effectivly discuss race at all.

Obama managed to say what we were all thinking. Thats his gift, he says what we are thinking so we can all get together and work on the problems. Hillary would be a great executive, but not trancedent leader of the culture. Hillary is more of a bueracrat and if all washington needed was an effective executive she would be it. The fact is Washington is corrupt and nobody cares what the people think anymore. No guarantee Obama will fix that but we figure its worth a try, call us niave or idealistic, we got hope for a change instead of resigning ourselves to a life of oppression and insignficance.

Hillary is as apart of the problems of washington. She is not a bad person, but she has just been in the game TOO LONG. She has lost faith in the people, so she will appeal to the worst or best in us depending on what suites he interest. This method is effective and it is wise not to fight fair in an unfair fight. But we must also realize that we are teaching our children that fairness and justice mean nothing. Politics is nasty, it can make good people cruel and duplicitious.
Obama is an unknown quantity, he may be the great PRETENDER but thats unrealistic. Obama was drafted to run for president. Even with his ambition, he had no intentions of starting out this soon. Obama has the support of respected members of the Democratic party. That should be sufficient to put our fears to rest, unless you think John Kerry, Patrick Leighy , and hundreds of others are a bunch of delusional suckers. Well black people vote 92% democrat anyway. So when we become color blind dont expect that anymore, you better enjoy our RACIALIST attitude while you can exploit it.

by edtastic on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 10:59:35 PM EST

Re: Black Voters Split 92-8% for Obama in Pennsyl (none / 0)

I find it amusing that some of Senator Obama's supporters can't seem to digest the truth.

People have been attacking Senator Clinton for ages - called her all kinds of names and everything else.

With gumption , I say this to those who can't accept the truth about Senator Obama - deal with it! :)

by optimisticBoy on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:32:39 AM EST

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