MyDD :: Third Party Run for Hillary?

Third Party Run for Hillary?

by MAL Contends, Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:25:18 AM EST

Most rational, honest observers (those are not whom we see on cable TV) know that absent a historic meltdown by Obama, Hillary Clinton has virtually no chance of winning the Democratic nomination.

Her nine-digit win in the quasi-machine state of Pennsylvania excites only those with a vested interest in seeing her continue in the race.

Here's an updated reposting of one rationale explaining why Hillary stays in, consistent with known facts: A third-party run.

In Hillary Clinton's willingness to blow up a historic Democratic constituency (the African-American vote, now voting against here nine-to-one), her embrace of John McCain's national security credentials over Barack Obama's, and her utilization of rightwing media organs to smear Obama, right as her money is drying up, one sees at least the outlines of a rationale for the messianic Hillary to morph into Joe Lieberman and stage an independent run for the presidency.

Said James Carville in April: "Well, you know the convention is not the end game, folks. Now, don't get me wrong I think Hillary Clinton will get the nomination in the end. But, if the Washintonian elites decide to throw her under the bus, who could blame her if she took this all the way to November."

Bill has been building up McCain for months, saying McCain is a "moderate"

Certainly Hillary possesses the sense of entitlement and burn-down-the-house drive to wage such a battle.

And the Clinton's loyalty to the Democratic Party has never been that strong. Hillary is a Democratic Leadership Council (DLC) Democrat, who has believed the third way is the only for some time now.

Her continued presence in the race and her general-election attacks speaks clearly that she really does not care what damage she inflicts on the Democratic nominee.

Maybe Hillary does care, and wishes to subtly inflict as much damage as possible, weakening Obama for her historic third-party run facing a weakened Obama and a historically weak GOP.

Such a run would be the realization of the ultimate triangulation.

What's to stop her? Hillary's lack of ambition, Hillary's loyalty to the Democratic Party?

We'll see.

Tags: 2008 election, Barack Obama, breaking political news, Pennsylvania, Pennsylvania Primary, third party run by Hillary, third party run by Hillary Rodham Clinton (all tags)

Permalink :: 36 Comments :: Post a Comment

Interesting (none / 0)

But I can't see it happening. Nothing surprises me, but I don't think she'd go that low.

by mikeinsf on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:27:53 AM EST

Re: Interesting (none / 0)

I agree, I cannot see it happening... who ever does not get the nomination will remain a U.S. Senator... and one with a very high profile at that...

This would be cutting off her nose to spite her face... she is smarter than that.

Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...

by JenKinFLA on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:37:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Interesting (none / 0)

so long as the nominee wins.

If Obama/Clinton loses, part of the blame will lie with the loser and that person will disappear into obscurity.

If Obama/Clinton wins, the losing Senator will become a major player in the next four years.

The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.

by nrafter530 on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:50:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Interesting (none / 0)

There is no room in my head for thoughts of the Dems losing in November... just something that I do not allow myself to do right now...

Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...

by JenKinFLA on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 12:02:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Third Party Run for Hillary? (none / 0)

the sore loser laws in a lot of states

sure she can run, but this automatically disqualifies her from being on the ballot as an indie.

add to that she will lose all institutional democratic support.

and sure she can run, but she won't win if she faces off with her high negatives against BOTH McCain and Obama.

she won't leave the party.

Congratulations to Barack Obama, the presumptive Presumptive Democratic Nominee

by TruthMatters on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:30:15 AM EST

Carville (2.00 / 1)

He's so funny. :)

Of course that's just posturing directed at a few party elders, and of course Hillary has made it remarkably clear that she will do whatever is necessary to ensure that a Democrat wins the White House. She has, unlike her opponent, repeatedly told voters that, whatever differences exist between her and Obama, they pale in comparison to differences between either of them and McCain.

by bobbank on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:32:01 AM EST

Re: Third Party Run for Hillary? (2.00 / 1)

I think you should be asking your question about a 3rd party run of Obama, because Hillary is going to be the nominee. Where's the stampede of delegates for Obama? Not happening... and Clinton is about to march on to victories in Indiana, Kentucky, West Virginia, and Puerto Rico. If she wins North Carolina too, the CW says it is game over for Obama - this is the first chance she's had to put him away in months!

by mikes101 on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:32:49 AM EST

Re: Third Party Run for Hillary? (none / 0)

Indiana is close and still polling favorably for Obama... I doubt she will pull off North Carolina, but that is a state that her campaign will declare unimportant anyway...

She still has an uphill battle. And, as to the stampede of delegates...? Who knows, the results from PA just came in last night and we still have the rest of the week to go.

Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...

by JenKinFLA on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:39:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Third Party Run for Hillary? (none / 0)

Crazy much? Hillary will never do this, never ever. She has an outsize ego (anyone seriously considering the Presidency has to), but she is no Ross Perot or Ralph Nader. Her self absorption is within the bounds of normal human behavior, plus she is a loyal Democrat to the end...

No politician ever lost an election because he underestimated the intelligence of the American public. - PT Barnum, paraphrased...

by jarhead5536 on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:39:58 AM EST

Re: Third Party Run for Hillary? (none / 0)

She would only consider such a thing if she truly wanted to destroy herself, I don't see it. It's bad enough as it is.

by Shaun Appleby on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:41:19 AM EST

Re: Third Party Run for Hillary? (none / 0)

I doubt it.

I think it is more likely that she's trying to ensure a Republican victory, imagining shell be forgiven in 4 years.

by wrb on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:44:35 AM EST

Re: Third Party Run for Hillary? (none / 0)

um - coming from a country with more party choices than 2 - i don't necessarily think that would be a bad idea.

however - it would NEVER happen. HRC is a democrat through and through (as indicated in the people that are voting for her).

"Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle." Plato

by canadian gal on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:45:01 AM EST

Re: Third Party Run for Hillary? (2.00 / 1)

"In Hillary Clinton's willingness to blow up a historic Democratic constituency (the African-American vote, now voting against here nine-to-one)"

Say what? How, exactly, do a presidential candidate, and a former president, both of whom were lionized by AA voters, suddenly become the demon? The Obama campaign surrogates did this intentional hatchet job, and in time, the historical analysis will show that.

by aggieric on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 11:49:16 AM EST

Re: Third Party Run for Hillary? (none / 0)

Your point is that they are well know in the AA community.

SO what is your view of black voters if they can be "tricked" by this "hatchet job"? Others suggest as a result, we should just throw out the results of NC. Heck, I propose lets remove Philly from yesterday's count, we can get the margin up over 20%.

And some say the "bitter" comment was insulting.

by labor nrrd on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 12:22:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Third Party Run for Hillary? (none / 0)

And to be clear I think the diarist is crazy. If Clinton is not the nominee she will not run third party (and I think alot of people shouting they will vote McCain will come home)... and if she is the nominee, I think the same about people coming home, don't see Black voters flocking to John "I didn't support MLK holiday because I wasn't aware enough of those issues" McCain.

by labor nrrd on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 12:24:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Third Party Run for Hillary? (none / 0)

McCain is playing it smart. He knows that if Hillary wins by superdelegates outvoting pledged delegates that the AA community will feel cheated. That's the only reason I can see for him going to the MLK memorial to give a speech even though he voted against the holiday (he apologized for that vote at the speech). And this week he went to Selma and gave another speech. He is reaching out to black voters in the event that Hillary is the nominee. He is offering himself as an alternative. Whether it works remains to be seen. I think most AA's will simply stay home IF the superdelegates vote over the pledged delegates. But McCain will get points for at least reaching out.

by shalca on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 12:32:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Third Party Run for Hillary? (none / 0)

Sure, but others thing could be at play. Remember Bush in 2004 made a big deal about reaching out to AA's. Many argued that it wasn't really to reach black voters, but for whites who weren't comfortable voting for the Republican party of the "southern strategy." They didn't want to actually change the the strategy, just mollify the people who found it uncomfortable.

by labor nrrd on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 03:58:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Third Party Run for Hillary? (none / 0)

Bush put every AA republican he could find on stage at the national convention. But that's about all he did. As of now, McCain has done more reaching out to the black community than Bush did in his first 6 years in office.

by shalca on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 05:44:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Third Party Run for Hillary? (none / 0)

Easy.

By smearing Rev. Wright, and by playing on racicism rather than showing leadership and leading people away from it.

Her campaign has been vile

by wrb on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 01:00:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Third Party Run for Hillary? (2.00 / 1)

Are you saying Hillary smeared Rev. Wright?

Please explain.

by Trickster on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 01:10:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Third Party Run for Hillary? (none / 0)

I'm saying her supporters did and she did not step in to stop them.

Instead she accepted the profits of racism. Many will never forgive her.

by wrb on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 01:24:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Third Party Run for Hillary? (none / 0)

I'm not aware of this smearing you're speaking about, nor how Hillary could stop people from talking about whatever they want to talk about. It sure didn't come from her campaign, which was extremely reticent to talk about the matter, just a single brief statement in answering questions.

by Trickster on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 01:30:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Third Party Run for Hillary? (none / 0)

I will follow her ANYWHERE she can call it the Women's Party for all I care....I'm voting for HER whether or not she's on the ballad!!!

by nikkid on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 12:13:06 PM EST

Re: Third Party Run for Hillary? (none / 0)

Which means you value your candidate over your party. I wouldn't mind so much if you were a Republican, but as a Democrat I think people on both sides who make this assertion are destroying our chances to make progressive changes in government.

by shalca on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 12:34:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Third Party Run for Hillary? (none / 0)

You are correct. I put Hillary Clinton, my candidate ABOVE the Democratic Party.

To me - she is a leader and I want her for my President, I don't CARE what party she runs under, I already know what she stands for.

by nikkid on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:15:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

And the die-hard Hill backers called Obama backers (none / 0)

... "cultists."

The cult of personality cuts both ways.

by Bob Johnson on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 12:57:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Third Party Run for Hillary? (none / 0)

Maybe the republicans will name a secret prison after you.

Or at least include your name on a plaque in the lobby.

by wrb on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 01:03:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This is an idiotic diary (none / 0)

I actually agree with you on something...

by labor nrrd on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 12:18:02 PM EST

more like a primary challenge in 2012 (none / 0)

when Obama becomes President, flounders like Jimmy Carter, and Hillary successfully challenges him for the nomination. It would be much easier to do, because unlike Ted Kennedy, she hasn't killed anyone yet, and the head of her machine, Bill is still alive, unlike Joe Kennedy in 1980. If Obama is floundering, she'd be an easy choice to avoid an incumbent losing in a landslide

"there is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured by what is right in America"-William Jefferson Clinton, forty-second President of the United States

by DiamondJay on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 12:24:32 PM EST

Re: This is an idiotic diary (none / 0)

I don't know. It's only as idiotic as that Obama=Nixon diary that I saw.

by shalca on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 12:27:22 PM EST

I hate crap like this. (2.00 / 1)

This is the same line of bull that was rolled out against Howard Dean in `04. It was bull then and it's bull now.

Hillary is a Democrat and a damn good one. Neither she nor Obama would ever run third party.

Grow up.

by Bob Johnson on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 12:55:25 PM EST

You're so full of it. (none / 0)

She's already said she'll campaign for Obama if he wins the nomination. I know you'll be disappointed to discover that she's not a selfish monster, but I'm sure you'll get over it eventually. In the meantime, just shut up.

Support forced pregnancy? Vote John McCain 2008!

by sricki on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 01:21:12 PM EST

Re: You're so full of it. (none / 0)

Time will tell whether she will campaign for Obama when the fall election rolls around. I have my doubts. And oh yes, Obama will be the nominee of the Democratic Party!!

by sbbonerad on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 01:46:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Ugh. (none / 0)

Smugness is an extremely unattractive quality, just so you know.

Support forced pregnancy? Vote John McCain 2008!

by sricki on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 02:34:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ugh. (none / 0)

Yes, please tell that to HRC as she flashed that smile of hers this morning everywhere.

by sbbonerad on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 02:37:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ugh. (none / 0)

Wow, smiling is smug now? How much LSD does one have to take to arrive at that bizarre, nonsensical conclusion?

Keep on alienating her supporters, though, pal. You're really helping your candidate. I'm sure he'll thank you in the fall if he's the nominee, when he needs those alienated Hillary supporters to win.

Support forced pregnancy? Vote John McCain 2008!

by sricki on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 02:43:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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