MyDD :: Bill Clinton tells another fairy tale on the race card

Bill Clinton tells another fairy tale on the race card

by Kiku, Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 12:00:29 PM EST

Yesterday, Bill Clinton blamed Obama for playing the race card in South Carolina:

"I think that they played the race card on me. We now know, from memos from the campaign that they planned to do it along." - President Bill Clinton.

And that's how President Clinton begins his answer to WHYY's Susan Phillips who, during a phone interview earlier this evening, asked the President how he feels about one Philadelphia official who says she switched her support after interpreting Clinton's remarks in South Carolina as an attempt to marginalize Obama as "the black candidate." http://supertuesdayblog.wordpress.com

The problem is, it WAS the Clinton's who started the whole discussion. Obama had nothing to gain by raising the issue of race. Hillary did. Even Hillary's campaign staff admitted that they were trying to paint Obama as the black candidate.

I journaled the whole thing because I was confused by the flying accusations of who started it.

Bill and Hillary started the discussion on 7 January 2008 when Bill made his fairy tale comment and Hillary commented on President Johnson and Martin Luther King.

After that, the discussions and accusations flew fast and furious for a few days as people spoke out against the comments, and as Hillary's camp tried to paint Obama as the black president. Obama's participation was minimal.

So, what did the Hillary camp really say?

Bill called Obama a fairy tale. Hillary belittled Martin Luther King, Bill called Obama a kid, Andrew Cuomo said Obama was doing a "shuck and jive", Representative Rangel called Obama stupid, Bob Johnson said that "Obama was doing something in the neighborhood". Hillary and Bill each said that Obama needed to do the "spadework". Bill comments, after Obama wins South Carolina, that, well, Jessy Jackson did too".

And what about Obama's camp?

Michelle said the comments were belittling. Obama said it was the silly season and called Hillary's allegations that he started it ludicrous. A memo was discovered from Obama's SC office with a list of articles discussing the issue.

The memo that Bill refers to I presume is the from Obama's South Carolina office, first published by Taylor Marsh on 11 January, and copied to Huffington Post on 12 January 2008. It simply contained a list of articles that had been published on the issue of race. It was not, as Bill implies, a detailed strategy for hoodwinking the Clinton's into talking about race.

As we have seen all along, the Clinton's are unable to take responsibility for their behavior in the campaign. Bills's accusation is a classic Rovian strategy: to accuse the opposition of the very thing they were doing.

It must take an emotional toll:

(Bill) Clinton seems clearly frustrated by the question or the suggestion by anyone - either the reporter or the Philadelphia official whom she quoted - that he was somehow making a negative statement about Obama (or Jesse Jackson) based on their race. His frustration comes through towards the end of the recording when, apparently unaware that he was still on the line, Clinton asks whoever is with him, "I don't think I should take any shit from anybody on that, do you? http://supertuesdayblog.wordpress.com

<hr>
Here's the timeline:

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2 008/01/15/579283.aspx

http://www.barackobama.com/factcheck/200 8/01/13/clinton_blames_obama_campaign_1. php

???: Bill calls Obama a kid

7 Jan 2008: Hillary comments on MLK (twice), Bill on fairytale

8 Jan 2008: Donna Bazille: on CNN's "Situation Room" with Wolf Blitzer. Later she heard Bill's explanation, and said she would take him at his word.

For him to go after Obama using "fairy tale," calling him a "kid," as he did last week, it's an insult. And I tell you, as an African-American, I find his words and his tone to be very depressing.

Politico

9 Jan 2008: New York Times Editorial: Hillary Clinton "Came Perilously Close To Injecting Racial Tension."

9 Jan 2008: Jesse Jackson Jr. says Hillary didn't cry for Katrina

11 Jan, 2008: Clyburn says to be careful with words NYtimes article

11 Jan 2008: Clinton Advisor, Bill Lynch Calls Comments a "Mistake." Politico

11 Jan 2008: Obama memo released, quotes articles on racism, last dated article is 1/11/2008.

11 Jan 2008: Taylor Marsh first posts memo

12 Jan 2008: Huffington posts memo

12 Jan 2008: Clinton Supporter, Darrell Jackson Calls Clinton Remarks Painful. The State

13 Jan 2008: Michelle talks about comments being "belittling", but it isn't racist

13 January 2008: Obama Calls Clinton Allegations "Ludicrous" Fox

13 January 2008: NYTimes: BET founder Bob Johnson verges on mentioning drugs
AJC

13 January 2008: Boston Mayor Thomas M. Menino defends Hillary. Boston Herald

14 Jan 2008: Obama tries to stop the silliness NYTimes

14 January 2008: Hillary tries to stop the argument

14 January 2008: Rep. Charles Rangel said in an interview that Mr. Obama was "absolutely stupid" for calling Mrs. Clinton's original remark ill-advised. CNN

14 January 2008: Lots of comments going back and forth between Hillary and Obama. NYTimes

15 January 2008: Rangel regrets comments MSNBC

17 January 2008: Bob Johnson apologizes to Obama WashPost

27 January 2008: Bill comments that Jessie Jackson also won South Carolina

Andrew Cuoma: shuck and jive

Hillary, Bill Clinton: spadework

Tags: Bill, Clinton, race, card, South Carolina, Jackson, Hillary, Obama, radio, interview (all tags)

Permalink :: 63 Comments :: Post a Comment

Re: Bill Clinton tells another fairy tale on the r (2.00 / 8)

bunch of BS. Bill Clinton called Obama's position on Iraq a fairytale - how is that racist?

calling someone a kid is racist? Oh my. Same with stupid?

Hillary PRAISED both MLK & LBJ, stating it did take a president's signature to enact civil rights - you got a problem with ACTUAL history here?

How is "spadework" racist? She stated "Okay. I have a choice between a truly inspirational speaker who has not done the kind of spadework with the sort of experience that another candidate has "

She was referring to experience.

BC's comments on SC were on the historical fact that on JJ's got that number of AA's in a primary. You got a problem with FACTS?

by colebiancardi on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 12:10:03 PM EST

Re: Bill Clinton tells another fairy tale on the r (2.00 / 5)

In addition this is false and just one more example of BO supporters playing the race card. And after BO big lose his supporters will be doing this all day wed.

Here is what Bill Clinton said. "BO could win this election. His candidancy is no fair tale. You should correct the record since what is in the thread is just false.

You also forgot to post the David Alexrod memo where he tells his supporters to play of five Clinton comments and then suggest that these comments were racially insensitive. My guess is you just forgot this and this omission was just by chance.

david

by giusd on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 12:16:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Call it "preemptive race baiting." (2.00 / 3)

I guess Obama's supporters are expecting a big loss today because the parsing has already started. After the numbers start coming out showing Hillary's decisive win, Obama's supporters will twist and spin and do everything imaginable to find racism where there isn't any. It happens everytime Obama has a setback - like clockwork.

Obama supporter working to defeat McCain.

by Rumarhazzit on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 12:30:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Call it "preemptive race baiting." (2.00 / 1)

How do you suppose they managed to trick Bill Clinton into his statement?

by Mostly on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 12:48:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Call it "preemptive race baiting." (2.00 / 1)

As usual, there's absolutely nothing wrong with Bill's statement. What's wrong is how folks are twisting and spinning it to give it nefarious meanings.

Ken Starr, Newt Gingrich and Rush Limbaugh and all the GOP talking heads did that back when he was POTUS.

I see some of you have never stopped.

Hell's bells, even the GOP didn't have to crucify Eisenhower's record in order to make Reagan their 'saint'. We can have two great ones, you know?

by emsprater on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 02:20:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bill Clinton tells another fairy tale on the r (2.00 / 2)

You're wrong about the 'fairy tale' comment. I don't necessarily believe he was talking about race, but what he actually said was:

"this whole thing is the biggest fairy tale I've ever seen."

What makes it easy to read into his comments is that it's not exactly clear if he's talking about Obama's stance on the war, and his claims about it; if he's talking about Obama's claims of having better judgment than Hillary; if he's talking about Obama's campaign.

It seems from context that he's probably talking about Obama's position on the war. But by using the phrase "this whole thing," it makes it seem like he might be talking about something bigger (like the campaign).

But even if he is calling Obama's entire campaign a fairy tale, I still don't think he was doing so in a racially motivated way. In a condescending way? Yes (listen to his very first remark about only being in the Senate for one year), but racist? It seems incredibly unlikely to me. As an Obama supporter.

Other remarks, well . . .

Oh, and I disagree with most of Bill's 'take' on the Obama campaign, by the way.

by vadasz on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 12:41:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bill Clinton tells another fairy tale on the r (none / 0)

I agree here. I think that it because it happened so close to Hillary's comment that they got lumped together.

by Kiku on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 01:44:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bill Clinton tells another fairy tale on the r (none / 0)

"Fairy tale" was the most defensible statement in the whole brouhaha and it's what people who want to argue that the people who were originally offended by the stuff coming out of the Clinton campaign were only playing politics usually bring up.

I <3 run-on sentences.

by Mostly on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 02:21:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bill Clinton tells another fairy tale on the r (none / 0)

I'm just curious -- did you have a problem with Hillary's LBJ/MLK comments? What statements were made that offended you which weren't also condemned by Hillary and/or her campaign staff? I ask sincerely because I really do want to get to the bottom of this.

Fortune strums a mournful tune for those whose campaigns peak too soon. --Bored of the Rings

by Inky on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 04:56:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Time for backup (none / 0)

Here is what Bill Clinton said. "BO could win this election. His candidancy is no fair tale When did he say that? I can't grab the exact quote, but I am under the distinct impression that Bill Clinton said that it was a big fairy tale that Barack Obama was always against the Iraq invasion and subsequent occupation.

by tonedevil on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 12:55:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Time for backup (none / 0)

Yes, you're right. He also said the other thing, later.

by Trickster on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 02:29:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bill Clinton tells another fairy tale on the r (none / 0)

If you don't believe that using that term in reference to an African-american adult male isn't racist, then why don't you refer to any of your African-american male friends in that manner and let us know how they respond.

by mishiem on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 01:06:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bill Clinton tells another fairy tale on the r (2.00 / 2)

This is a joke right.

david

by giusd on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 01:09:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bill Clinton tells another fairy tale on the r (none / 0)

What term? Spadework?

by Trickster on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 02:30:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bill Clinton tells another fairy tale on the r (none / 0)

I didn't say it was racist.

I said that the Clintons started the discussion and attacks.

I love facts. That's why I printed this.

by Kiku on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 01:47:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bill Clinton tells another fairy tale on the r (none / 0)

I didn't say it was racist.

I said that the Clinton's started it by making comments to which other people took offense.

The whole point was to counter Bill's comment that Obama played the race card. He did not, he called the whole thing silly and ludicrous. It was the Clinton's, intentionally or not, that started it.

by Kiku on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 02:18:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bill Clinton tells another fairy tale on the r (2.00 / 5)

and Tim Russert HAD the FRIGGING "lets use the race card" memo from the Obama camp in his hands in the Nevada debate - you want to deny that little gem as well?

by colebiancardi on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 12:11:37 PM EST

Re: Bill Clinton tells another fairy tale on the r (none / 0)

That memo only documented statements by the Clinton campaign themselves. It wasn't, as Bill now says, a plan to "play the race card" (and I'm not even sure what that means, except that white people have been in terror of it ever since the OJ trial).

by Mostly on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 12:23:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bill Clinton tells another fairy tale on the r (none / 0)

I don't deny that, it's included in the timeline. I even provide a pointer to Taylor Marsh's original blog on 11 January, and a pointer to the Huffington post on 12 January. That came out 4 days after the Clinton's made their comments that offended people. It is not the memo that started the discussion, it is the Clinton comments.

I also don't call a list of articles printed in the media a racist memo, or as Bill Clinton implies, a stratgegic plan to play the race card.

by Kiku on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 01:53:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bill Clinton tells another fairy tale on the r (none / 0)

Implies? He flat-out says that's what it was.

by Mostly on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 02:23:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yeah, Right (2.00 / 2)

Believe what you will.
Nothing anyone says will change your opinion.

Of course, you realize that Bill Clinton was worse than Reagan, Bush I, and Dubya combined. And that's the sad thing. The Obama campaign has resorted to trashing the Clinton administration in terms hardly differing from the Rethugs.

by johnnygunn on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 12:21:15 PM EST

Re: Bill Clinton tells the truth...... (2.00 / 3)

As for the kid comment...Bill Clinton is 20+ years older than Obama. To Bill, Barack IS a kid. The same way those of us over 35 see people in thier first/second year of college or just out of high-school as.....kids.

Welcome to reality.

He that lives upon hope, will die fasting. -Ben Franklin

by TxDem08 on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 12:23:12 PM EST

Re: Bill Clinton tells the truth...... (2.00 / 3)

Exactly. My dad thinks anyone under 40 is a "kid." Nothing racist about it. In politics, basically anyone under 50 is a "young gun", "young turk" "Whiz kid" or what have you.

by Mayor McCheese on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 12:35:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bill Clinton tells the truth...... (none / 0)

Look, you can play dumb about this all you want, but it's well known that in the U.S. south, 'boy' is a term of disparagement when used for a black man by a white man or woman.

Historically, in countries such as the U.S. and South Africa, "boy" was not only a 'neutral' term for domestics but also used as a disparaging racist insult towards men of colour (especially of African descent), recalling their subservient status even after the 20th century legal emancipation (from slavery, evolved to race segregation, viz. Apartheid) and alleged infantility, and many still consider it offensive in that context to this day.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boy#Race

Did Clinton use the term 'boy?' No, of course not. That would have been openly racist (especially coming from a southern man). Is the term 'kid' dangerously close? I'd say yes. Again, I'm not going to assign motivation to Clinton, but as good a campaigner as he has been in the past, he ought to know better.

by vadasz on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 12:46:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bill Clinton tells the truth...... (2.00 / 5)

he didn't call him a boy - he called him a kid.

come on - you are so reaching.

by colebiancardi on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 12:53:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bill Clinton tells the truth...... (none / 0)

Did you read what I wrote?

I clearly said that he didn't call him "boy."

But I think it's obvious that if you call a grown man a child, you are making a statement. If you 'happen' to be calling a grown black man a child, (you do agree that 'kid' means 'child,' don't you? Or do I need to explain that?), and if you 'happen' to be a grown white man, and if you 'happen' to be from the south, then it might strike some as odd.

I'm 37, younger than Obama. If any man, from any country, state, region, called me a kid, I'd be fuckin pissed. I don't care if it's your sweet old grandad or who it might be, I ain't no kid.

Add to that the racial element . . . I'm sorry, if you can't see it, you're wearing old scratched up glasses with a lot of dead mosquitoes plastered to them.

Best of luck, blind man.

by vadasz on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 06:11:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bill Clinton tells the truth...... (2.00 / 5)

Wow when did kid become boy. But i will keep saying this. After BO debate meltdown and his big loss today we can expect to see alot more of this from BO supporters. Just like we did the day after NH and the day after super tuesday. We will see a non stop of threads about how HRC is a liar and the clintons are racist. I will try to get up the energy to check out dkow wed morning for the either the racist or HRC is not a democrat thread.

Just saying.

david

by giusd on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 12:58:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bill Clinton tells the truth...... (none / 0)

You don't need to wait for Wednesday. They've got it up now.

by Tolstoy on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 01:37:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Please (2.00 / 2)

Let's just keep it to the PC terms themselves, and not go outlawing every related term from the language.

"I have two children, a girl and a male human less than 18 years of age."

by Trickster on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 02:32:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bill Clinton tells the truth...... (none / 0)

Oh I get it now. If Clinton called Obama a "man", it's racist because he really meant to call him a "young man", which is code word for Boy which is racist. Makes sense to me.

by Mayor McCheese on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 03:02:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bill Clinton tells the truth...... (2.00 / 1)

Calling a 46 year old man a kid is offensive enough. It was said to be derogatory, and it is taken that way.

by Kiku on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 03:14:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bill Clinton tells the truth...... (none / 0)

Clinton referred to himself as the "Comeback Kid'. Really, your attempt at race baiting her is beyond pathetic.

by Mayor McCheese on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 09:37:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bill Clinton tells the truth...... (none / 0)

I don't get this comment. Bill blames Obama for playing the race card after Bill mentions Jesse Jackson. I print a time line to show that Obama was not involved.

Now I'm race baiting Clinton?

Sorry, it doesn't fly.

by Kiku on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 08:46:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bill Clinton tells the truth...... (none / 0)

Obama is one year older that Clinton was when he took office.

by Kiku on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 01:55:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

This whole diary is (2.00 / 4)

BS. Plain, simple, and succinct!

Take it to the Convention! Hillary '08"

by JHL on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 12:27:07 PM EST

he's about to lose again, out comes the race card (2.00 / 3)

You may as well have saved some time and just posted the memo Amaya distributed.

Your timeline is missing a few things. Hillary's JFK/MLK/LBJ comment was in response to a question about Obama comparing himself to JFK and MLK. Obama brought that up. You also fail to note that Obama's chief strategist was quoting Obama's race strategy memo just last month. If your strategist is using the strategy, then it is your campaign's strategy. You present no evidence of any Clinton staffer saying that they were trying to paint Obama as the black candidate.

But we know what is going on here. Obama is about to lose again, and when he loses he attacks the Clinton campaign and her supporters as racists. We saw this after New Hampshire, after Nevada, after Super Tuesday, and no doubt we will see it again tomorrow. It is risky for Obama to go there after Rev. Wright, but blaming racist Democrats seems to be his default position.

by souvarine on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 12:27:11 PM EST

Re: Bill Clinton tells another fairy tale on the r (2.00 / 3)

And I will predict, IF Obama wins the nomination, and his campaign uses this bull shit artist tactic of calling racism around every door, he will lose & lose big time.

by colebiancardi on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 12:30:43 PM EST

Re: Bill Clinton tells another fairy tale on the r (none / 0)

Pulling a Bill here? It was Bill who called racist yesterday, not Obama.

by Kiku on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 02:00:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bill Clinton tells another fairy tale on the r (none / 0)

and Obama's camp has used the race card on the Clinton's.

fairytale, MLK, JJ's historical win which mirrored Obama's in SC

and then JJ stating that Hillary didn't weep for Katrina

keep it up. Not all of us are stupid and consumed with guilt.

by colebiancardi on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 02:48:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

"Fairy tale" (2.00 / 3)

Had nada to do with race. I hope the irony of calling out Clinton on the "Race card" isn't lost on you as you post this diary.

by Mayor McCheese on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 12:34:07 PM EST

Re: (2.00 / 4)

Even if you accept the Clintons would be prepared to play the racecard, which i don't you'd need to also believe they were stupid. Playing the race card before a 55% AA primary?

The 2 'racist' comments; the fairytale and the LBJ comments aren't remotely racist. They were spun as racist by people who had a vested interest in flipping the black vote totally to Obama, now who would that be.....

by liberalj on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 12:39:05 PM EST

Re: (none / 0)

Look, at the time, and even now when he's near the nomination, there was a lot of discussion as to whether a black man could actually win the presidency in the U.S. Many people think it can be done, but that candidate has to be like Oprah, where people don't see a black woman on TV, they see Oprah. In contrast take Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson, who most people consider to be a black politician, not simply a politician. Black politicians don't do well in this country, one of the reasons that Obama is only the third black in almost 150 years.

So you see why Obama attempted to "transcend" race at the beginning of his campaign. He tried to avoid it like the plague, which is why he wasn't considered "black enough" by the AA community up until January of this year. Then he won Iowa, and all of a sudden he was black enough, because he could win over white voters and no matter what black events he didn't attend, the possibility of a viable black candidate trumped blackness. Still, the Clintons were basically splitting the AA vote with Obama.

Then the Clintons made some ill-advised statements and there was a backlash.

by shalca on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 01:14:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: (none / 0)

The comments weren't ill advised, they were twisted by the Obama campaign to solidfy Obama's black support. Great move, because without 90% black support Obama's campaign would be over by now. The best politicians convince people that they're above politics, thats Obama's trick.

There's plenty of evidence that Obama plays politics just as hard as the Clintons do, yet somehow there are enough naive people out there who think he's above politics so they can't understand the attacks on him.

I'll support him in the GE because he's a Liberal, because he's an intelligent guy and because i think having an AA President will be a huge step forward for America but i won't be joining the personality cult.

by liberalj on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 05:10:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: (none / 0)

I feel that argument is extremely insulting. To say that 90% of the AA community can't think for themselves and come to their own conclusions, but vote because the Obama campaign "twisted" Clinton's words is a huge insult to the collective intelligence of black people in America.

The fact is the MLK/LBJ statement as originally stated by Hillary diminished MLK's role. If you ask most people which of them contributed more to the civil rights movement, most people would not put them on equal footing. When Clinton did so she offended people. She has since clarified her remarks, but she offended people.

The fact is Bill Clinton's statement after SC were offensive. He could have used John Edwards who was the last democratic nominee to win SC but lose the nomination. That he brought up the last black democratic nominee to win SC from 20 years prior, along with the MLK/LBJ statement made a bit earlier seemed an effort to paint Obama as the black candidate. At least it looked that way to me.

I feel the AA community got offended. They weren't told to be offended as some would like to say here. Believe it or not blacks are people with their own minds, not automatons that do whatever the black candidate tells them to do (see Al Sharpton's presidential run). So yeah, their statements were ill-advised.

by shalca on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 05:34:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: (none / 0)

The Obama campaign set out to make the Clintons look racist, the media bought into it. Then many AAs obviously believed the Clintons had insulted them, because that was what had been reported. That combined with the natural desire among AAs to see an AA President gave Obama 90% of the black vote in SC and beyond.

Bush fooled a lot of white people in 2004, am i insulting white people by saying that? No.

Just because she offended people doesn't mean people were right to take offence because they weren't. There was nothing offensive about saying it took LBJ to get Martin Luther King's dreams put into law, thats historical fact.

Clinton calling Obama's claim to of strongly opposed the Iraq war a fairytale because there was no real difference between him and Hillary on the issue, thats only racist if you twist it into Clinton calling his whole campaign a fairytale. But he wasn't talking about his whole campaign.

Its funny that the Obama campaign took such offence to the non-racist Clinton comments but was so relaxed about Wright's overtly racist remarks. The Obama campaign gets an A+ in hypocrisy from me.

by liberalj on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 06:25:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: (none / 0)

Again, your argument is insulting. It requires that 90% of black people not be able to think for themselves or look at evidence and for their own conclusions. Bush may have fooled a lot of white people in 2004, but half of them voted against him, and he wasn't running against a black republican nominee who said offensive things to white people.

People were offended by her LBJ/MLK comment because it diminished the role of a black man who died for his beliefs to raise up a policy wonk who was white. It came across offensive in the black community and it's not for you to say that the AA community had no right to be offended by a statement (even though it was later clarified) that was interpreted as the black guy gave a lot of speeches, it took the white guy to get it done.

I never mentioned the "fairy tale" statement in my comment, because you're right, Bill Clinton was talking about Obama's stance on the Iraq war, nothing else. The only people pushing that remark as racist are Donna Brazile and poorly informed Obama supporters.

So I won't call out people who were offended by the 30 seconds of the long career of Rev. Wright. And maybe you shouldn't call out people who were offended by what either Clinton said, despite their long careers serving everyone in this country.

by shalca on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 06:44:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: (none / 0)

The LBJ comment did not diminish the role of MLK, it was simple historical fact. MLK did not pass the civil rights act, he and other great people like him inspired it. Her point was that you need great orators, great activists and also great legislators to achieve things.

The AA community can be offended by whatever they like, but i'm not going to accept that because i'm white i have no right to say they shouldn't be offended. I wouldn't say to a black person you can't tell me not to be offended by Wright's comments because you're not white.

There are lots of genuinely racist comments around, none of them made by the Clintons. Any AA that thinks the LBJ comment was racist is wrong in my opinion, i respect their right to disagree with me.

by liberalj on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 07:17:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

your timeline is off (2.00 / 4)

Jesse Jackson JR on CNN saying "Hillary didnt cry over Katrina" etc.

Race Card.

vote blue in 2008

by sepulvedaj3 on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 12:55:39 PM EST

Re: your timeline is off (none / 0)

How is the timeline off? He said that after the SC election, well after all the comments were in full swing.

by Kiku on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 02:14:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bill Clinton (2.00 / 1)

Ok, let's be factual.

Bill Clinton was referring to Obama's stance on the Iraq war as a "fairy tale." He was not speaking about Obama himself, or his candidacy, or his campaign; only his stance on the war.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJRkw03wo qc

Now, Hillary initially fucked up and made statements that DID belittle MLK's contribution to the civil rights movement as speeches. She was asked to react to an Obama statement about her blurb that we can't give people "false hope." Like I've said, if you ask most people who contributed more to the civil rights era, MLK or LBJ? MOST people would not put them on equal footing. People got offended, she clarified her remarks. Don't put it on the Obama campaign that she stuck her foot in her mouth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9LhWUsrJ nM

Bill Clinton was asked a question about it taking two Clintons to beat one Obama. Bill Clinton brought up Jesse Jackson (a black candidate from 20 years ago) to compare to Obama. He didn't bring up John Edwards who was the last democrat to win SC but lose the nomination. It looked, especially in the light of the MLK/LBJ statements that the Clinton campaign was trying to remind the electorate that Obama was black. People got offended. Don't blame the Obama campaign for Bill sticking his foot in his mouth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qqd2dfjl2 pw
and Obama's response
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmE1VWUlO D0

The Obama campaign in S.C. did put out a memo and sent it out to some media outlets. The memo was not some kind of manifesto on how to play the race card. It was a list of quotes by political pundits about Clinton campaign comments and actions. I can't find a link to the original. Someone who has it should do so. It had no original thought, it just listed comments made by the Clintons and by pundits, the fact that they, taken together, could seem as playing the race card is on the Clintons.

Now, my problem with Bill Clinton is his distant relationship with the truth. He was a good president, maybe one of the best. But he's also a proven liar. I had thought David Geffen's comment about how easily the Clinton's lie was simple bitterness, but this campaign has given a lot of credence to what he said. Seriously, it was only a couple of weeks after the whole Tuzla incident that the entire press covered and showed that Hillary misspoke several times that Bill was saying she misspoke "one time, late at night." I couldn't believe that he opened his mouth to exxagerate about that of all incidents. I love what the guy has done when in power, but he's a liar and I take his stories with a huge grain of salt.

by shalca on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 01:02:41 PM EST

Re: Bill Clinton (none / 0)

Just a correction on the memo. There was a memo from the Obama campaign, but it was not distributed to the media. Nobody knows where it came from, except that it first showed up on Taylor Marsh's blog on 11 January. The memo contains only a list of articles that had been printed on this issue.

It is quite possible that someone (Marsh?) called up the office and asked for a list of articles, and that was then circulated.

by Kiku on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 02:11:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bill Clinton (none / 0)

Obama pretty much acknowledged it during the debate with Tim Russert moderating. I don't think the content of the memo is as damning as most Clinton supporters would like to imagine it is. But I'm not going to doubt that it came out of his organization, even if not personally from him or Axelrod.

by shalca on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 05:00:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

In reality.. (2.00 / 1)

Bill Clinton did not state NOR imply that a black man becoming president was a fairy tale. That's how this whole thing started in the media if you recall. He was talking about how Obama had based his campaign on the idea that he was always against the war and HC was not. Now, on MLK Day in Atlanta, right to his face in church, the Mayor of that city and a big Obama supporter actually had the gall to accuse the former President of stating that it was a fairy tale that a black man could be elected. That disgusting remark on her part received very litle attention.

by handsomegent on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 01:06:02 PM EST

B. Clinton denies today what he said yesterday (none / 0)

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2 008/04/22/931095.aspx

At the Jewish Community Center in Pittsburgh this morning, Bill Clinton took questions from local press after shaking a lot of hands. NBC/NJ asked him about the WHYY radio interview in which he said the Obama camp was playing the race card. Below is full transcript of the back-and-forth:

NBC/NJ: "Sir, what did you mean yesterday when you said that the Obama campaign was playing the race card on you?"

CLINTON: "When did I say that, and to whom did I say that?"

NBC/NJ: "On WHYY radio yesterday"

CLINTON: "No, no, no. That's not what I said. You always follow me around and play these little games, and I'm not going to play your games today. This is a day about election day. Go back and see what the question was, and what my answer was. You have mischaracterized it to get another cheap story to divert the American people from the real urgent issues before us, and I choose not to play your game today. Have a nice day."

NBC/NJ: "Respectfully sir, though, you did say ..."

CLINTON: "Have a nice day." [continues shaking hands with supporters]. I said what I said, you can go and look at the interview. And if you'll be real honest, you'll also report what the question was and what the
answer was."

NBC/NJ: "They asked you if you regretted your comparing Jesse Jackson to Barack Obama on the day after the South Carolina primary."

CLINTON: "And I pointed out that I did not do that, and that I complimented them both. And that Jesse Jackson took no offense. And I called him myself, I said, `Did you find that offensive?' And he said no.

Again, here is what Clinton told WHYY.

INTERVIEWER (RE: Jackson comment): "Do you think that was a mistake, and would you do that again?"

CLINTON: "No. I think that they played the race card on me. And we now know, from memos from the campaign and everything, that they planned to do it along.

Donate!

by chrisblask on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 01:13:30 PM EST

This IS pattern of race-baiting and attempted (none / 0)

"ghettoization" (i.e. trying to box him into a corner as a "black candidate" and marginalize his appeal to non-black voters) of Obama's candidacy:

Race-Baiting'08

1 Billy Shaheen: Barack Obama May Have Been a Drug Dealer! December 12, 2007
2 Hillary Clinton: Actually, LBJ Did it. January 7th, 2008
3 Bill Clinton: I can't make her... black?
6 Andrew Cuomo: Shuck and Jive. January 10, 2008
7 BET Founder Bob Johnson Attacks. January 13, 2008
8 Three Volunteers Resign for Spreading MADRASSA EMAIL. December 2007
9 Bob Kerrey and his Dog Whistle. December 17, 2007
10 Andrew Cuomo: Beautiful Symbol. January 10, 2008
11 Bill Clinton: Fairy Tale & Kid. January 2008
13 Bill Clinton's Charlie Rose Interview. December 14, 2007
14 Hillary Clinton: I just don't want to see us fall backwards. Jan. 8, 2007
16 Clinton Team Quietly Raise Obama's Cocaine Use. December 11, 2007
17 Geraldine Ferraro. January 14, 2008
19 Rangel: Obama put drug use in book to sell books. January 14, 2008
21 Playing on the Obama-will-be-assassinated fears. Jan 7, 2007
22 Hillary Shufflin' about Bob Johnson. January 15, 2008
23 Black and Brown Instigation. January 9, 2008
24 Lawd, the Black Man will DOOM..DOOM the entire ticket. February 13, 2007
25 State Senator Robert Ford on Obama's Iowa Victory. January 7, 2008
32 Bill Clinton says people in South Carolina will vote for Obama only because he's black. January 23, 2008
35 Bill Clinton: S.C.? No problem, Obama = Jesse Jackson. January 26, 2008
40 Clinton Camp Spreads ' Obama has a CULT' Memo. February 17, 2008
41 Ed Rendell: Obama is BLACK and White folk won't vote for him. February 12, 2008
43 Obama is a Scary Muslim Once Again. February 25, 2008
44 Harold Ickes: Obama is Jesse Jackson Once Again. February 25, 2008
45 Geraldine Ferraro: Obama is LUCKY to be Black. March 10, 2008
46 Bill Clinton: what happened in SC is a "myth and a mugging"
47 'Not that I know of'!

Details, links, videos and commentary:
clintonattacksobama | Incident Tracker
http://clintonattacksobama.pbwiki.com/In cident+Tracker#Guide
http://tinyurl.com/66lg87

Obama's Pop. Vote LEAD = 600K | Clinton & McCain = WAR Authorizers

by NeuvoLiberal on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 01:39:59 PM EST

Re: Bill Clinton tells another fairy tale on the r (none / 0)

I'm pleased that Senator Obama has training and teaching experience in Constitutional law. He will be familiar with the Federalist papers, which describe in detail the dangers of what the Clintons and Republicans are doing to Democracy. They don't get it, and sadly her voters are being duped into voting for the corporate shill under the guise of "first woman President".

by URKnot on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 01:45:32 PM EST

Also (none / 0)

Andrew Cuomo said Obama was doing a "shuck and jive",

Obama wasn't even mentioned. It was a conversation about how difficult it was to do retail politics in Iowa, and Cuomo said you can't shuck 'n jive your way through a press conference in Iowa.

by Trickster on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 02:36:34 PM EST

Bill vs Hillary? (none / 0)

Bill Vs Hillary???

Hillary Clinton criticizes Saudi oil wealth while her husband benefits from its largess. She opposes a Colombian trade agreement that he supports. And she condemns China while his foundation solicits donations there.

With a record like that, former President Bill Clinton could well be running against his wife instead of stumping for her.

A useless "Community Organizer" from Pennsylvania as noted by Republicans, Rudy Giuliani and Sarah Palin

by hootie4170 on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 03:14:30 PM EST

Re: Bill vs Hillary? (none / 0)

He just can't seem to get it right. I wonder what happened to him, he used to be on top of the game.

by Kiku on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 04:52:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bill Clinton tells (none / 0)

blah.... honestly again??? again?? why do we have to do this again. for supporters who dont want to idle of the 'silliness' of politics, this is unbelievable.

fyi....I think its Hillary thats running for president.

Should we be judging people on who they know (like obama and wrights relationship) or judging them for who they are?? uhhh...

[i smell hypocrisy spewing....]

--++++Stay Gold, Ponyboy!++++--

by amde on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 03:40:12 PM EST

Re: Bill Clinton tells (none / 0)

Yes, how silly of me to think that honesty should be something we expect from our politicians.

Since Hillary personally profits from Bill peddling his influence to Kazakhstan against US foreign policy, or to Colombia against the interests of the US workers, or to China against the interests of free speech, what he does is very significant.

She has also state that he will be active in her administration. I assume she will be dispatching him to mend our foreign fences.

This is not hypocrisy. This is a legitimate concern. Bill comes with Hillary into the White House. He isn't someone that Hillary just knows.

Also, if Bill is campaigning for Hillary, what he says is certainly important and a reflection on the family that will be in the White House.

But, I agree with the principle. Remote associations are not significant and should not be a part of the discussion.

by Kiku on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 04:49:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bill Clinton tells (none / 0)

i suppose its a legitamate concern but then again now so are the pins you wear on lapels(snark). we cant have it both ways. If you choose to make these things into big deals its like you open the door to the rest of the sillines.

it might be just a little silly to expect honesty from anybody for that matter. politicians are people too, meaning...wait...here...it comes..............yes, they LIE.

(im not sure a 20 yr relationship with a trusted religious figure counts as 'remote association') otherwise keep in mind that Bill was a good/great president, you want to erase that because some statement. ahhh... i wont.

i'm not sure about the whole personal profits accustaion, ill need proof to believe it and even then i cant gaurantee ill believe it.

--++++Stay Gold, Ponyboy!++++--

by amde on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 05:09:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bill Clinton tells another fairy tale (none / 0)

Please explain to me how any Democrat supports the notion that Bill Clinton is a racist. Or Hillary Clinton. This is the most disgusting smear on our most successful Dem President in over a generationI can imagine. And Obama supporters do their candidate no justice trying to argue otherwise. In fact, if you want to wonder why Hillary's supporters won't support Obama, THIS IS WHY!

Purity! Or else!

by ChitownDenny on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 06:57:22 PM EST

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