No way McCain's anything other than a third term for BushCo.  And that's totally unacceptable.

Commander-in-chief threshold ring a bell? The Clintons didn't just say that McCain would be a better President than Bush, they said he'd be a better President than Obama.

"We need a nominee who will take on John McCain, not cheer on John McCain, and I will be that nominee."

It would be funny if weren't so transparent and dishonest. When, exactly, is she going to stop cheering on John McCain. I guess when you're Hillary Clinton, consistency and honesty are pretty much expendable. We've seen that on NAFTA, pride/shame, Iraq, Joe Lieberman, guns....

Hillary Clinton has been talking about McCain's qualifications for two months now. Bill called him a "moderate" and can't stop talking about how much he and Hillary like him.

So now you're going to bring your day's supply of phony outrage to the faint praise that he'd be "better than Bush"?

I think McCain will be the same as Bush.  Also your diary is very well written.

Good job!

"We need someone who'll take on McCain with everything she's got."

The Clintons have produced several soundbites for the Repubs...on experience, commander-in-chief, and finally patriotism (remember Bill's moment questioning patriotism).

You should delete this diary. Hillary should apologize for being disingenuous - and lets get back to the primary.

This diary is crap.

Hold on.

First of all, here you are again quoting large portions of text, having ignored our concerns from yesterday. I can understand being tired once or twice; again, I'm raising an infant all by myself; but really.

Second, are you going to reconcile this with Clinton's own statements about McCain and the CIC threshold? Are you going to ignore that Obama said, flat-out, Clinton would be far superior than McCain?

Come on, alegre, let's be a little honest here. Your reputation is at stake- I want to hear you address these serious concerns!

Why do I always get the sense that Clinton's talking points are solely intended for low information voters?

his GE campaign had to stand on.

Barack and his campaign have told us that McCain is more honorable than Hillary, that he isn't a warmonger and that he's not like Bush jr.

What's the reason to vote for Barack again?

run to the center-right.  He is appealing to republicans here, certainly, not to democrats. Since he cannot win all the democrats, he's signaling the republicans that he is a viable alternative.

Once again, I guess "mangled" words.  He could have said both dems would be better, McCain might be different than bush, but clearly not better.

"Unilateral disarmament".  Great.

A cucumber could be a better president than GW Bush...so I dont the statement is all that crazy.

I really should stop thinking Clinton hypocrisy can't sink to a new low, I keep being proved wrong.

After "Sen. McCain has a lifetime of experience, I have a lifetime of experience, Sen. Obama has one speech in 2002" she has zero credibility in this area.

"I have a lifetime of experience.  John McCain has a lifetime of experience.  Barack Obama has a speech he made in 2002."

"At a rally last night in Harrisburg, though, Obama said that's not a very high standard. "Senator Clinton will be vastly better than George Bush would be, but that's a very low bar; that's not good enough," he told some 9,000 at a rally on the steps of the state capitol."

Ouch.

I agree with Obama , Mccain would be better than Bush.

Bush is a numb skull.

Hillary Clinton should let it go , it is very disingenous .

"I think that since we now know Sen. (John) McCain will be the nominee for the Republican Party, national security will be front and center in this election. We all know that. And I think it's imperative that each of us be able to demonstrate we can cross the commander-in-chief threshold," the New York senator told reporters crowded into an infant's bedroom-sized hotel conference room in Washington.

Calling McCain, the presumptive GOP nominee a good friend and a "distinguished man with a great history of service to our country," Clinton said, "Both of us will be on that stage having crossed that threshold. That is a critical criterion for the next Democratic nominee to deal with."

My cat, Fred Hollywood, would be a better president that George W. Bush.

Right now he's licking plastic.

if this diary makes the rec'd list im gonna throw up

"He paid as high a price as you can pay to serve this country without getting killed, and we have to honor that," Clinton said. "[And] he has some redeeming qualities for a Republican: he doesn't believe in toture, he supported campaign finance reform and he doesn't think global warming is a myth...

He's cheating on his own CFR, and has rarely ever voted to protect the environment, just talks about it.

The most morally important factor: McCain doesn't believe in torture, he just votes for it. Several times.

You'd think a Democrat might be interested in highlighting McCain hypocrisy and the hollowness of the "principled maverick" MSM myth about the GOP nominee.

Whatever could Bill Clinton's interest be....?

    Hillary has said that McCain has passed the Commander in Chief threshold. That he would be a better CIC than Obama.

   Do you agree with that statement? If you don't, then shut up and quit complaining about Obama. If you do, well then forgive us yellow dogs for questioning your Democratic credentials.

Speaking of potentially damaging soundbites, here's what Obama said on November 8, 2004 (he was sworn into the US Senate on Jan 4, 2005) when asked if he'd consider running for President:

OBAMA:
I am um... a believer in knowing what you're doing when you apply for a job and I think that if I were to seriously consider running on a national ticket I would essentially have to start now before having served a day in the Senate. Now there are some people who might be comfortable doing that but I'm not one of those people.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RK1M5Ioh_ Lo

How's he going to explain that away against McCain? Honest question Obama supporters, how will he rebut that? What happened between then and now to change his mind? Hopefully he'll come up with a better response than he has on some of his other tight spots.

More and more Obama seems like an open-mouth-insert-foot novice. You can blame Hillary Clinton for holding his feet to the flames, but he's the one lighting these fires that he continually needs to dose.

Obama: "Either Democrat would be better than McCain."

Clinton: "I think it's imperative that each of us be able to demonstrate we can cross the commander-in-chief threshold. I believe that I've done that. Certainly, Sen. McCain has done that."

Clinton: ""I have a lifetime of experience.  John McCain has a lifetime of experience.  Barack Obama has a speech he made in 2002."

The purpose of Obama's quote was to promote the Democrats over McCain. The purpose of Clinton's quotes was to promote herself over Obama.

And where is the diarist? She writes a hit piece and when people start to make comments she doesn't agree with she calls us all Trolls and runs away. This is the same behavior that she exibited over at kos. We were trying to have a discussion while she just wanted to Attack Obama and not have to defend her own words. In my book she has now lost all credibility.

I don't agree with either of them giving McCain any room.  Obama should get himself a pin made up with that picture of McCain with his arms wrapped around Bush's torso, and not say another word about McCain being better than Bush.  Bush is McCain.  That should be the slogan.  He must not have seen the McBush Commercial using that picture and interchanging McCains head with McBush's.  That's the way to go.

I think it is pretty clear that Obama thinks what I think on this which is, yeah, McCain would be better than Bush.

That doesn't speak well of McCain, necessarily.  My dirty underwear would make a better president than Bush.  

That is because in the long history of this nation, there has never been anyone worse in the role than Bush, and yes, that includes Buchanan.  I used to think Buchanan still had a shot at retaining the Worst president Ever Sash, and then we destroyed habeas corpus and then he had a gathering round yon table for a fun and friendly discussion of exactly when and how we would waterboard the shit out of detainees who may or may not (or may not) been al Qaeda operatives.

Pardon my French, but my poo would make a better President than Bush because my poo, being a mostly inanimate substance, would not have the ability to veto stem cell research or issue signing statements.  Thus would my poo be a better Chief Executive than Bush.  

I think about 90% of Americans understand what he was saying, alegre.  But perhaps he said it with his middle finger extended at a Bill Ayers Weatherman meeting.  Whatever you want to believe.    

obama has lots of nice things to say about republicans. they're the party of ideas, according to him. i guess that is why he's attacking universal health care from the right.

with a whole lot of quotes and little original content? hillaryis44's front page. Just an observation.

It seems that this is a glimpse to the general election, that he was ignoring Hillary.  He's playing those cordial politics that he and McCain have "temporarily agreed" to.

OH HELL NO. Are you so blind that you don't see the tv ad this will spring? All they have to do is juxtapose Hillary saying McCain is better than Obama alongside this. And BOOM. Instantly loses more credibility.

At the very BEST, what this statement means logically is that she thinks Obama would be worse than Bush. And that is a very stupid thing to say.

Hillary is losing it. Between this and MoveOn, I wonder if she's even trying anymore.

with points like this one by alegre. I mean some people have nerves. This is Hillary Clinton we are talking about. The one that has passed the threshold. The threshold that Barack Obama has not. You know what alegre? You can say whatever you want. I am not getting upset anymore. I'll just go to Obama's site and donate another $10 and $20. Keep doing what you are doing. It won't last long anyways. Here is the bottom line. It will be the will of the people. Directly (pledged) or indirectly (super). I suggest that you get used to the idea. IT IS OVER.

threshold. Does she think GWB has as well or something?

I wish there was another debate to discuss this issue, the Obama "bird", whether or not the Easter bunny exists, etc.  You know.  Important stuff.

Seriously, Clinton folks.  This grasping at straws stuff is doing absolutely nothing to get a democrat in the white house.

Clinton is going to win by 5-10 points on Tuesday and gain 15-20 delegates on Obama.  Then people (and the supers) are going to look ahead and see that Hillary is 120+ delegates down with little chance to make them up.  They're also going to see the current tone of the primary and start/continue to move towards Obama.

We need to start focusing on McCain.  

You know what, I think McCain would be better than Bush. I also think that argument is pretty flimsy. I think most of us can agree that saying someone would be better than Bush is kind of like saying I'd rather have one knee broken instead of having both broken.

Furthermore, I don't see how Senator Clinton can make this kind of attack after the way she treated McCain earlier--saying that Senator McCain has a lifetime of experience and Obama has a speech he made in 2002.

I find her argument both hypocritical and specious, and, frankly, algere, I find your diary on it a cheap shot.

You are complaining that Obama said McCain would be better than Bush when he ALSO said that both he and Clinton would be better than McCain...

Where was your outrage when Clinton TWICE made comments that alluded to the idea that McCain would be a better Commander in Chief than Obama?

Your vitriolic, inane, and divisive tone has been annoying up until now. But you have now passed annoying into laughable.

The fact that you wrote this diary and got all of your friends to recommend it shows just how much you care about the Democratic party...not at all. You care about Clinton getting elected and thats it... I am so sick of the absurdity of the recommended diaries here...

Its a joke.

OH MY GAWD!

Don't you realize that this is the kind of stuff that makes people even more disgusted with your candidate.  At least I can admit it when Obama says something lame or takes a cheap shot, when Hillary does it you broadcast it as widely as you can so that everyone can know just how petty she has been.  I am so freaking tired of this bull.

I am 100% for Hillary. I will vote for Obama if he is the nominee. But I think that McCain is better than Bush too. Not that that's saying much.

McCain, although I realize he comes from a priveleged background, has at least accomplished some things on his own in his life. Bush is, was, and will always be a big, fat nothing. Without his Daddy's name, money, connections, and legacy, Bush would have been an obvious, complete, and total failure at everything he tried--school, business, and politics. Bush also had his Daddy pull strings so he could avoid going to Vietnam, while at the same time pretend that he is a veteran. He chose the easiest, and the sleaziest, solution to the dilemma facing many young men in the 1960's. The contrast here with McCain is too obvious to mention. While McCain's policies might be just as bad, or even worse, than Bush's, I still think that McCain is a better person, and would be a better President, than Bush.

And Nixon or Reagan would also be better than Bush.

So would Donald Duck.

Same for Britney Spears.

And my 9-year-old nephew.

Got it now? What Obama said about McCain is NOT necesarilly a compliment. In fact, it can just as easily be interpreted as, "No one, even John McCain, could possibly be as bad as George W. Bush."

By the way, that's a FAR cry from Hillary's comments about McCain being better than Obama... or haven't you figured that out yet?

at the beginning of this thread and read through to the bottom. If you think that's an echo chamber then you are hearing things!

"I think that since we now know Sen. (John) McCain will be the nominee for the Republican Party, national security will be front and center in this election. We all know that. And I think it's imperative that each of us be able to demonstrate we can cross the commander-in-chief threshold," the New York senator told reporters crowded into an infant's bedroom-sized hotel conference room in Washington.

"I believe that I've done that. [b]Certainly, Sen. McCain has done that[/b] and you'll have to ask Sen. Obama with respect to his candidacy," she said.

Calling McCain, the presumptive GOP nominee a good friend and a [b]"distinguished man with a great history of service to our country,"[/b] Clinton said, "Both of us will be on that stage having crossed that threshold. That is a critical criterion for the next Democratic nominee to deal with."

...

"I think that I have a lifetime of experience that I will bring to the White House. [b]Sen. John McCain has a lifetime of experience that he'd bring to the White House.[/b] And Sen. Obama has a speech he gave in 2002."

She has to be joking, right?

You know what - as a Clinton supporter I am really not into this diary.  Honestly, Barack is right: McCain would be better than Bush imo.  At least he seems to acknowledge that the environment exists.  I see him running a somewhat cleaner shop.

Is it a sin to say so?

I think Hillary was clever to pick up on it and take a shot at McCain and Obama in one swipe.  So, definitely clever.

But why make an issue out of this, really..

I prefer we talk about how our candidate has a smarter tax policy and better healthcare plan.

No not kidding, it's referred to as regression to the mean.  Bush is waaaaaay out on the distribution, a pile of steaming crap would do a better job!

These comment sections on the other hand don't appear to regress to the mean.  They seem to follow the rules of entropy more closely.  Very depressing to read.  I have to say Alegre, your diaries have really degraded into what appears to be intentionally inflammatory, from positive pieces about Clinton, to this.  I really think you are trying to bring out the worst in Obama supporters.

Alegre, I'm glad you've written a diary highlighting Hillary's hypocrisy.

This is the first of your diaries I'm recommending!

We need a nominee who will take on John McCain, not cheer on John McCain, and I will be that nominee.

And when will she start doing that?  

Piecing together what we've heard from her so far, in Hillary's world I guess it's Bush > McCain > Obama.

This diary is a joke.

1.) Hillary and Bill Clinton have effusively praised John McCain over the last couple of months, even elevating John McCain above Barack Obama with the CIC threshold nonsense.

2.) Nobody could possibly be as bad as George W. Bush, the worst president in the history of the United States.  To say that John McCain would be a better president is like saying "John McCain is a human."

It's impossible to be honest with yourself and actually believe that Obama's statement is a gaffe.  I can smell the desperation.

By the way, Allegre -- if John McCain will be as bad or worse than GWB, will you be voting for him in the fall when Obama is the Democratic nominee?

If this is one of the worst comments that Obama has said, he's clearly a better orator than I ever imagined. For one, it's true. Anyone who's as bad as Bush is in jail, the only reason he's not is because he's the president. For two, it elevates the party, not the candidate. He wants a Democrat over a Republican. Clinton seems to want herself over anyone else.

As for Clinton's response, I disagree with her audience on all points. McCain may not have a plan, but he's not actively undermining the country. McCain wants us to stay in Iraq for 100 years, Bush wants us to stay in Iran for 100 years. McCain won't try to get our economy out of the hole, Bush dug the hole himself. McCain is clueless on healthcare, Bush wanted to end social security by privatizing it. McCain doesn't know what to do about the various crises that Bush caused, but at least he didn't cause them.

Either Democrat is better than the terrorists winning and McCain getting elected.

I knew when I returned this shite of a diary would be on the list.

You can cut and paste your gung-ho diaries backing HRC - but this is ridiculous and should be deleted.

Just to recap:

1) "I think that since we now know Sen. (John) McCain will be the nominee for the Republican Party, national security will be front and center in this election. We all know that. And I think it's imperative that each of us be able to demonstrate we can cross the commander-in-chief threshold," "I believe that I've done that. Certainly, Sen. McCain has done that and you'll have to ask Sen. Obama with respect to his candidacy," she said. Calling McCain, the presumptive GOP nominee a good friend and a "distinguished man with a great history of service to our country," Clinton said, "Both of us will be on that stage having crossed that threshold. That is a critical criterion for the next Democratic nominee to deal with."

2) "She said she and McCain had traveled to Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan together as she repeated a line that surfaced from the campaign trail. She and McCain "bring a lifetime of experience to the campaign, Clinton said..."

3) ... on the campaign trail today in Charlotte, North Carolina, the former president said a general election matchup between his wife, Sen. Clinton, and Sen. John McCain would be between "two people who love this country" without "all this other stuff that always seems to intrude itself on our politics."

Finally - what exactly is incorrect about Obama's statement? He says the 2 dems are better than McCain (something HRC would never do) and then says McCain would be better than Bush. Not that much of a stress considering (as I pointed out above) a cucumber could improve on the Bush Admin.

Say anything, Do anything.

You are being quite naive if you think HRC's victories in OH and TX were without a little push from Operation Chaos. I know you want to rail on indies and repubs who actually want something/someone different...but HRCs non-dem votes are certainly not coming back in Nov. We have been (and are still being) bamboozled by the right.

So, lets get this straight...

Clinton thinks that McCain is the same as Bush
(McCain = Bush)

Clinton thinks that she is much better than Obama
(Clinton >>>> Obama)

Clinton thinks that McCain is better than Obama
(McCain > Obama)

Therefore, Hillary's view is:
Clinton>>>>>>>>& gt;>>>McCain/Bush>Obama

Obama's view:  Obama > Clinton >>>>>>>>>> >>McCain>Bush

but all I have to say is lol

Shark...Jump...Pot...Kettle

lol

he is a virtual gaffe machine. First, "typical white person," then "they're bitter...they cling to guns and religion" and now basically fucking over the case against McCain. MCCAIN IS BUSH. Obama speaks his fucking mind too much. McCain is no improvement. McCain will fall asleep in the Oval Office more than Bush actually day dreams. McCain is gonna use this. its not like, if Obama's the nominee, he can brush it off, as he would with Hillarys "CIC test/MCCain" comment in which he could say "that wasn't me," now, McCain will use Obama's own words. This guy is Jimmy Carter. says too much shit he shouldn't say, and could morph himself right into Michael Dukakis, who should have beat his opponent, and snatched defeat form the jaws of victory. If we thought Dukakis looked good in a tank, and his answer on the death penalty was just swell, even tho his opponent was lagging in the polls, I wonder what Obama is gonna do. Will he do something dumb enough to launch McCain like Dukakis launched Bush in the polls to an election day landslide? Bush and Dukakis were close before the debates in 1988. This race could just be 1988 all over again.

Wait, nevermind the hypocrisy, are we actually debating whether this is true? John McCain is a big improvement over Bush; anyone is a big improvement over Bush.

Ummm...nothing could be as bad as Bush, outside of Dick Cheney.  We all know McCain will be a slight improvement on disastrous...it still makes him terrible.  Get a clue.

Of course McCain would be better then Bush, why is this even up for debate?  We can say that and also say that he will be bad for America.  Why is Algere trying to hit Obama so hard for telling the truth?

my left testicle would be better than Bush.

To review facts now.  Obama has just said that Hillary is better than John McCain.  In the CIC speech, Hillary said that John McCain is better than Obama.  So one Democrat is saying the other Democrat is better than the Republican, and the other is saying that the Republican is better than the Democrat.

So all she is doing is reinforcing the negative impression of her.  If the CIC speech is played again the media will have a field day.

No wonder the campaign is in trouble.  Between this and acting as if the Trib endorsement is a big deal they are giving fresh evidence of a dysfunctional campaign

From last Survey USAPoll

"A large shift of support occurred in the Philadelphia area and other parts of Southeast Pennsylvania, which includes most of the state's African-American population. The poll found that Obama finished strongly, ahead of Clinton by 14 points within that demographic. Among liberals, Obama began 18 points behind Clinton but finished 11 points ahead of Clinton. Among those who have not graduated from college, Clinton led by 28 points last week, but by 15 points Monday.

Among voters under age 50, Clinton had led by 8 points last week and trailed by 8 Monday."

http://www.nbc10.com/politics/15943088/d etail.html?dl=mainclick

I was shaking my head in disbelief when I heard that statement from Obama.  What could he possibly be trying to accomplish by saying McCain would be better than Bush?  How incredibly foolish and unnecessary.  It will stick too.  That statement will come back to haunt him, a la ... " Even Senator Obama thinks McCain would be an improvement over Bush "

In the last couple months, I can just see the Republican campaign ads creating themselves with the some of the statements by Obama and with some of the things coming out of his closet.  What a nightmare.  

How the heck did we go from having a whole slate of good candidates against a panel of fools in the Republican primary, to the situation we're in now, where it's unclear whether we can even win the election in '08?  How did this happen?

There are days when I feel like Obama is simply going to hand them the election.  There are times when I feel like he's taking every misconception about Democrats that Republicans have capitalized on over the years, and every smear they've used against us, and after all the work we've done on these issues to turn things around, he's handing them back to the Republicans as weapons.

Yeah McCain will be better than Bush, Hillary will be better than MCcain and Obama will be better than Hillary. Deal with that fact or maybe go and have a life. All these three don't give a hoot about any of you spending so much energy worried about all this... when you think about it, is that the purpose of our lives?

Can we have just a little honesty here, instead of inane politicking?

George W. Bush has already been declared by the majority of historians as the worst President in U.S. history. A chimpanzee would literally be a major improvement. I don't think it's much of a compliment for Obama to say that McCain would be better than GW.

I'm not sure how much weight or credibility Hillary's response carries, seeing that she has also praised McCain as having pass the mythical "presidential threshhold."