The Tragedy of Tuzla

Sen. Clinton is being ridiculed everywhere for the blatant lie she told about her trip to Bosnia. No amount of spinning can hide the fact that she said she "ran with their heads down to the vehicles", while in the video she is shown chatting and smiling and posing for photographs. It does not matter that they were issued flak jackets.It does not matter that some people thought there were snipers in the hills. Sen. Clinton's lie was blatant enough to put her in the same league as Bill Clinton, but of course not even close to  Bush or Rumsfeld. Nobody died because of her lies.

Her lying  is a tragedy for Democrats and the Nation, not just for the Clintons. Because it tarnishes not only her, but one of the shining moments of American foreign policy. The Bosnia intervention  stopped a humanitarian disaster, saving the lives of thousands of Muslims who would have been slaughtered without it. This  was accomplished without invading a country whole sale and without getting mired in a civil war.

President Clinton showed great foresight and judgment. He went against the conventional wisdom that air power cannot be effective in messy conflicts among   subnational groups. No American lives were lost in combat (There was some loss of life from accidents and such, all military operations, even peace time training missions,  are dangerous). The contrast with the Bush invasion of Iraq could not be more stark.

And Sen. Clinton has tarnished that shining legacy. It is her  outrageous lie that will be associated to Tuzla  from now on, not the brilliant achievement of President Clinton, Secretary Madeline Albright and General Wesley Clark.

Her lie was doubly dumb because it also overshadowed her own major foreign policy speech. The rest of the speech, which no one will read anymore, was a reasonable analysis of the situation in Iraq. Her purpose on St. Patrick Day was to mark the fifth anniversary of the disastrous war, and salvage the damage to her reputation from voting for it. Coming after Sen. Obama's historic address on race, this was her chance to show off her oratory. Both speeches are being downloaded by the millions at YouTube. For different reasons.

People's lies say a lot of themselves, even more than the truths they tell. Truth is simply  what actually happened.  A lie on the other hand, is a window into a person's mind, a guide to what they wish had happened. What do Sen. Clinton's lie tell us about her?

Surprisingly, her lies are rooted some of her attractive qualities. Perhaps she  who would have loved to be  in combat, an opportunity denied to women of her generation. There is no question that Sen. Clinton is brave, passionate and tenacious. Qualities she would have brought to battle had she been given the chance. She might in fact had been the  hero of sniper battles if she had been given that chance.

Instead, she spent her adult life as a corporate lawyer and wife to a gifted but undisciplined  politician. She was given precious few opportunities to directly use her fierce grasp of policy detail. When she was given the chance she often failed because of being overeager, pushing too hard when finesse was needed.  The failure of her Health Plan is the most prominent example.

If she had gone into politics herself, instead of ceding the limelight to her husband, she might have made an even better politician. Certainly, she would been more disciplined, if less charming. But it didn't happen that way. It is  too late to change that history.

The mismatch between her talents, ambition and her accomplishment is why Sen. Clinton often find refuge in an invented past, a past that should have been,  in a fairer world. That is why many of her supporters stick with her even after her mendacity is exposed: they too might feel that her lies are only making up for an unfair world.

The movie "Six Degrees of Separation" is an exploration of a similar theme. A destitute  young man talks his way into high society by pretending to be the son of Sidney Poitier. Sen. Clinton had many more chances than that young man, but the basic reason she lies so often and with such convincing detail is the same. And the consequences are no less tragic.


Poll
Whose lies are more tragic?
Sen. Clinton
President Clinton

Votes: 8
Results : Vote Link : Polls

Display:


Re: The Tragedy of Tuzla (none / 0)

What we really need is some more threads on Rev Wirght dont you think.  I mean what is a bigger issue???  Can some one post some more of his videos so the group still going on about Tuzla can see them.  I am sure you would like to see some more.

david


by giusd on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:45:24 AM EST

More riveting to see the candidate herself lie (2.00 / 0)


by LibDem on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:47:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Don't worry, we're going to. (none / 0)


by JimR on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:24:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama's Uncle's Dog's Veterninarian is a quack. (none / 0)


by LibDem on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:40:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Uncle's Dog's Veterninarian is a quack (none / 0)

How's his spelling?


by JimR on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 02:42:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Tragedy of Tuzla (none / 0)

Really like i was never in church when Rev Wright said antything offensive.  I think all those voters in Nov are going to want to know.  Why does BO think that Rev Wright should not be thrown under the bus.  

Also, why does BO think Imus must be fired and why does Ferraro have to be destroyed because BO has zero tolerance for racism but his frieds get a free ride.  

Will David Alexrod be fired for his memo telling supporters to play up race?  

But come on you want to talk about Tuzla lets talk about playing the race card to smear other dems.  

NO no really classy.

david


by giusd on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:53:40 AM EST

Wow. Obama was in church. (2.00 / 0)

At least he's not a muslim! David, you just repeat and repeat this and it's completely lost its traction. The 'race card' thing is so tired too. I'm always amazed how a mixed race man is supposed to play the race card - what, against himself?

Ferraro might not be a racist, but her remarks 'Obama is lucky is to be black' are completely patronising and racially tinged. She didn't have to put her foot in her mouth. Wright isn't racist, but the 'rich white folk' got him swiftboated, and he's paid the price like Ferraro has.

Show me when Obama has been actually filmed or recorded lying? There are none, or else it would be all over the internet, just like Hillary's Tuzla tale.


by brit on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:00:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wow. Obama was in church. (none / 0)

When have i ever said BO is a Muslim.  Why would you start your post that way.  You should be ashamed of yourself you saying this.  If you have ANY proof of this i demand you show it now or step back.

Talk about intellectual challenged statement.  The fact is Wright is just as much nonsense as the Tulza thing.  Why don't you just admit that.

david


by giusd on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:12:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Lost in translation (none / 0)

No, David. Misunderstanding. When I said you repeat 'this' I meant the Wright issue. I've never heard you say he's a Muslim. But one of the perverse side effects of the Wright issue is that all but 10% of the population realise Obama goes to a Christian church now.

I still think the Tuzla issue is more damaging than Wright because it goes to the heart of what a candidate SAY, not what they might have HEARD. You disagree. Time and the polls will tell. We can argue about this, but I had no intention of smearing you with something you didn't say. I hope that's clear to you now, and everyone who reads this.

MyDD seems to have taken a turn for the better, with honest disagreements, passionately but not vitriolically expressed. I wouldn't want to ruin that tone, so I hope you accept this as a misunderstanding. No hard feelings.


by brit on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:18:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Oh, the polls have spoken, alright.. (2.00 / 0)

A ten point swing in a couple of days.  The shocking thing about those video clips isn't really so much the substance of the lies, but the consummate ease and smiling facility with which she delivers her lines.  It gives a lot of people an eerie instant flashback to the time someone smiled at them and lied to their face in convincing fashion.  The Bosnia whopper fest is the tipping point from which Clinton's credibility, such as it was, can never recover.


by ReillyDiefenbach on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 10:11:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Lost in translation (2.00 / 0)

Thank you yes,

Sorry was out of the office.

I have done this now.

david


by giusd on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 10:13:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Can you please remove that hide rating (none / 0)

I've explained any misunderstanding, and I would appreciate you removing this hiding rating from a sincere comment. Otherwise I will have to report you for troll abuse


by brit on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:31:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Can you please remove that hide rating (none / 0)

Sorry i was out and in now.

dg


by giusd on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 10:16:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Thanks David (none / 0)

I appreciate it


by brit on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 10:33:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks David (none / 0)

ty

dg


by giusd on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 10:49:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Video of the candidate herself lying is damning (2.00 / 0)

It is not as bad the Iraq vote in its tragic effects. But being riveting video, it is much more damaging.


by LibDem on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:36:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Tragedy of Tuzla (none / 0)

The problem is not just the spin, but the underlying context. Though Bill finally made the right decision in the end, 1995, he could have acted to save thousands of more lives (including the 9000 men and boy massacred in Srebrenica) if he had followed through with his lift and strike policy. Why did he back off?

One reason was Hillary. There are plenty of sources on this in my diaries, but I'll give you one right now, from an interview with Lee Aspin in 1994:

"As he walked into the room, Clinton was carrying a book called Balkan Ghosts, by Robert Kaplan. And he said, "My wife read this and I read some of it too. And it says that we can't succeed doing anything in that society. They've been killing each other for thousands of years and they're going to keep doing it." And Les Aspin said later, he was sitting there thinking, "He's going to go south on Lift and Strike." And he called Europe, got Christopher, and said, "Don't say anything. The President's going to change his mind." And in fact the President did."


by brit on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:54:59 AM EST

Like NAFTA? (none / 0)

I am willing to give Sen. Clinton the benefit of the doubt on conversations she had with her husband on policy matters. Different from lying about public events with dozens of witnesses and video to boot.


by LibDem on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:34:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

So am I (none / 0)

...and that's the problem. She influenced Bill in not pursuing lift and strike, and now tries to use Bosnia to boost her foreign policy credentials when everyone now agrees, that delay was CATASTROPHIC to the people of Bosnia.

I think the lie comes from some guilt over this original tragic error of judgement, that's all


by brit on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:44:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Troll diary (2.00 / 2)

Delete this piece of crap.


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:10:57 AM EST

Troll is as troll does (none / 0)

Or as we say over here: "He who smelt it, dealt it"

Lovely to hear your well thought out comments, Switchingsides.


by brit on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:20:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Ah, glass houses again (2.00 / 3)

As a Clinton supporter, I'm disappointed in the Tuzla story.  I don't get it, actually.  To me, it makes no sense to tell a "lie" that is so easily disproved in today's information society.  

But that gets to the heart of the question. I watched her recite this story, and it certainly didn't appear to be presented in any contrived fashion.  And she knew there were press and celebrities along with her.  So, to intentionally tell it inaccurately makes no sense.  She's anything but stupid, and she knows every word she utters is rife for opposition research. So again, it doesn't make sense on its face.

So, where does that leave us?  

What bothers me most is that people --like you, diarist-- want to automatically ascribe your own interpretations of her character and her honesty. What exactly do you know about her heart?  

You mention that "truth is simply what actually happened".  That's interesting.  It's been demonstrated time and time again that "truth" is nearly always subjective to some degree.  Put ten people in a situation where they witness an event, and then question them as to "what actually happened", you'll likely come up with very significant differences in some areas.  So "truth", as it were, is not always the absolute you make it out to be.  

And now, let's get some other truth.  What lies have YOU told in your life that would give us a window into YOUR soul? Let's see just how honest YOU are.  And no, I'm not talking about the "white lies" that are said so as not to hurt someone's feelings.  Nor am I talking about fibbing to your mom about finishing your homework. I'm talking about significant lies that any and all humans I have ever encountered have told.  Now, unless you're going to put yourself into some kind of super-human category, it's time to fess up.  Let's hear them.

Otherwise, let's stop with your foolish pop psychology.  I can give you several examples of Obama's --shall we say-- "inconsistencies", to be charitable.  As a matter of fact, one could easily label them, "lies".  Now, what would that tell us about his soul?  Does anyone with even a modicum of common sense think that a person who spends 20 years as a congregant of Rev Wright's church has never heard him say bigoted or anti-American remarks?  Talk about straining credulity. But hey, I guess with Hillary Clinton, we should judge her as a liar and Obama should just be taken at his word.  Yeah, that sounds fair.  

So let's hear YOUR lifetime lies, diarist.  Let's find out what's in YOUR soul.  

Something tells me I shouldn't hold my breath waiting.  


by DaTruth on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:21:36 AM EST

Truth is its own witness. (2.00 / 1)

It is postmodern bullpucky  that there is no such thing as objective truth. Either there she ran from the airplane or or she didn't. The video shows that she did not. The more you  try to spin it away the more this story  will remain in the news.


by LibDem on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:32:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Where's Obama's lie? (none / 0)

You may have a point about banging on about Tuzla being counterproductive now (though I'm more angry about Hillary's role in Bosnia during the war) and you've certainly got a point about pop psychologising.

But then you go overboard. Inconsistencies I can buy. All politicians pad their resumes. But where has Obama 'lied' about being in church when Wright said contentious things. He's said he was, and that he told Wright he disagreed with them. He wasn't in church during the few really inflammatory ones, played over and over again on youtube. But where is the lie, or shall we put it charitably, the false recollection.

It doesn't help Hillary to make an equivalence like this, and just stokes the fires.


by brit on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:35:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

did you know.. (2.00 / 2)

Al Gore is a liar...

He says he invented the internet...

Heis SUCH a liar.


by John Wesley Hardin was a Friend to the Poor on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 09:08:20 AM EST

Re: did you know.. (none / 0)

john, please email texasdarlin at tex4hillary@yahoo.com.  thanks.


by CalGirl on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 09:58:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Hillary - A Pattern of Lying? (none / 0)

Zeifman, Hillary Dishonest Lawyer --

As Hillary Clinton came under increasing scrutiny for her story about facing sniper fire in Bosnia, one question that arose was whether she has engaged in a pattern of lying.

The now-retired general counsel and chief of staff of the House Judiciary Committee, who supervised Hillary when she worked on the Watergate investigation, says Hillary's history of lies and unethical behavior goes back farther - and goes much deeper - than anyone realizes.

Jerry Zeifman, a lifelong Democrat, supervised the work of 27-year-old Hillary Rodham on the committee. Hillary got a job working on the investigation at the behest of her former law professor, Burke Marshall, who was also Sen. Ted Kennedy's chief counsel in the Chappaquiddick affair. When the investigation was over, Zeifman fired Hillary from the committee staff and refused to give her a letter of recommendation - one of only three people who earned that dubious distinction in Zeifman's 17-year career.
Why?  "Because she was a liar," Zeifman said in an interview last week. "She was an unethical, dishonest lawyer. She conspired to violate the Constitution, the rules of the House, the rules of the committee and the rules of confidentiality."

URL:  :/stoptheaclu.com/archives/2008/0 4/01/hillary-was-fired-from-congressiona l-job-for-unethical-behavior/trackback


by bacalove on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 12:21:20 PM EST


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