Obama supporter/"Clinton hater" returns

Inspired by Angry Mouse's conversion diary on dkos, I decided to come over to MyDD to see how thing's were going.  I've been gone for a while, which is sad really because MyDD was where I first waded into political waters on the Internet.  But I'm back now, and I felt as though this were a good time to write my first diary here.

I lurked for over a year here before I decided to join the conversation.  At first, I saw it more as a source of information than anything else.  Finally moved by irritation to speak up, I realized quickly that I had chosen the wrong time to become a vocal part of the community.  Presidential politics stir passions like little else in politics, and trying to make passionate arguments without having the basic etiquette down, and without having some reputation to stand on, was a frustrating experience.  What's more, many of the members and authors I respected the most seemed to be Hillary supporters, and I was most definitely on the ABC (Anybody But Clinton) bandwagon, for reasons that are not particularly relevant to this diary, but it will suffice to say that I was not a big fan of Bill Clinton during his Presidency.

That experience, along with the overt Clinton support, had me spending less and less time here.  It's not that I feel the need to be surrounded by people who agree with me all the time, but I became more and more interested in participating, and I found it difficult to find my voice in those circumstances.  To the contrary, I'm often considered among the most argumentative personalities on the non-partisan and apolitical message boards and forums I frequent, but the tenor of the discussions in those venues is remarkably different, and I possessed neither the netiquette nor the self-control to discuss Hillary Clinton and her opponents in a constructive manner.

Then in mid-January, I decided to just stop coming here all together.  I truly could not understand how you all could support her.

Fast forward to last week.  There was some grumbling on dkos about how intolerable MyDD had become.  As you can tell, I certainly sympathized with that.  But it made me think of all the reasons I really like MyDD: smaller, closer community; in depth, analytical diaries; lively, respectful debate; strong, partisan Democrats; a membership that understands DC in and out.  I came over here to see how long it would take me to cringe, and it didn't take long.  But I'm starting to feel more comfortable with my voice in the Dem blogosphere now that the cycle has reached its precipice, and I found that I could express what I'm thinking and feeling without being overly abrasive or hiding my loud personality, and doing so made the visit much more tolerable.

So here we are today.  Angry Mouse (not sure what her handle is here) wrote quite eloquently on the dilemma of having two historic candidates battle it out in what is an already a chaotic political climate of war, lies, and surveillance tape.  Even two ho-hum candidates would likely have us ripping at each other's throats; throw in the two tremendous personas we've been handed and it's no wonder we've all been so butt-hurt these past few months.

I'm not a very sympathetic person, and while the pieces of her diary that touched on seeing the other side's point of view made sense logically, I still cannot truly understand why so many of you (still) support her.  But I am definitely glad to be back amongst a group of smart, tough Democrats, and truly hope that, one way or another, this stuff will all be behind us soon and we can start working on electing someone who will start signing good bills and vetoing bad ones.



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Re: Obama supporter/Clinton hater returns (none / 0)

uh huh, so you will bless us with your 'wisdom' and insist that we all sing hosannas to BHO and if we do not curse HRC with every breath you will whip out your big TR and go for the autoban like on dkos. how special of you! yep, just another purity troll from freeperdkos.


by zerosumgame on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:29:39 PM EST

Great (none / 0)

I mean, who needs to troll or hide rate this. People   will happily condemn themselves from their own mouths.

Fast forward 100,000 years out of the Neanderthal age.

Welcome back. Always good to have posters, of whatever persuasion, who can argue without abuse, and type without dribbling


by brit on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 09:04:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama supporter/Clinton hater returns (2.00 / 1)

I am an Obama supporter also, who likes MyDD because it is smaller and even when I disagree still find the diaries here informative.  The only ones I cannot tolerate is the muslim and Rev Wright Obama smears.  Some of them go too far.  Some days you will see at least 5 or 6 in one day.  But, MyDD seems to be getting better in the last week and this week.  I don't understand the hate sometimes when we are all supposed to be democrats.  Sometimes I am guilty of writing mean things too.  I suppose we just can't help ourselves.


by Spanky on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:30:06 PM EST

Re: Obama supporter/Clinton hater returns (none / 0)

woah there. just the fact that someone supports Obama doesn't mean they automatically embody everything you dislike about the most vitriolic supporters. Give people a chance to disagree


Samantha Powers was dead on- Hillary is a MONSTER. (5/23/08)
by Maize and Blue State on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:33:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama supporter/Clinton hater returns (2.00 / 1)

Hopefully the gap can be bridged and unity can be achieved lest the country suffer the consequences...

Won't someone PLEASE think of the children?

Ahem, seriously though, I am ready for this to be over...  


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:30:15 PM EST

Just one note (2.00 / 1)

about your title. That word, Clinton-hater - not good. I don't particularly like her that much myself, but most people who feel the same way don't hate her.

Hate is a bad place to start out from in the Progressive blogosphere, no matter who or what is being hated. You might want to consider revising both your title and your outlook.


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:31:15 PM EST

Re: Just one note (2.00 / 1)

I agree... and it also makes people feel somehow obliged to post things like the first comment in the diary...

It's weird to have to say, but it's possible to like both candidates.  It's possible to do this even when you prefer one of them.


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:33:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Just one note (2.00 / 0)

I actually didn't include that originally, but I modified the title because I felt it was more sincere.  I truly do not like Clinton.  When I began straying from MyDD I was not really an Obama supporter (I was leaning towards Richardson at the time).

Anyhow, I used the word "hater" kind of tongue in cheek due to it's cliche value nowadays.


by anevarez on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:46:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Put it in quotes, (2.00 / 0)

That will help.


by TomP on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:49:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Put it in quotes, (none / 0)

agreed


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 09:05:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

And to your point then (2.00 / 1)

I am a Hillary supporter.  I don't love her, I don't think she is perfect.

And like you, I do not, absolutely do not like her opponent.  I am not a 'low-information' voter, in fact I have an undergrad in media studies, one in international relations, a grad degree in a politics and I am working on a second grad in communications.  I have worked in politics, organizing and public relations for a decade.  I am very well informed.

So here is why: My 'informedness' indicates that Obama is an unadmittedly ambitious politico who will do anything to get elected/win.  Why is this different than Clinton?  Well, because she will admit it- maybe not directly, but she is not afraid of it and it shows in everything she does.  Barrack Obama covers it up like he were somehow above it- I don't want a President who claims they are above politics because it is a huge lie.  No one, absolutely no one able to run for a major party nomination is above politics, no matter what they say or no matter how much we would like them to be.

I will not support a politician who is politically dishonest about their intentions.

So there you have it- ONE major reason I prefer Hillary over Barrack.  You asked, rather politely, so I have no problem giving you an answer.


by linc on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 09:14:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And to your point then (none / 0)

Your response didn't answer my question directly, but I can infer that the reason you support Clinton is because you dislike Obama, and frankly that is an answer that makes a lot of sense to me, because that is the logic that initially put me in Obama's corner once it became obvious that he would be her adversary in this contest.


by anevarez on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 09:37:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

This is you. and from what I can tell (2.00 / 1)

the point of your entire diary:

I still cannot truly understand why so many of you (still) support her


by linc on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 09:42:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Right (none / 0)

and your response told me why you dislike Obama, from which I concluded that the reason you support Clinton is because you dislike Obama.  Is this not correct?


by anevarez on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 09:46:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I guess you missed the snide bit of my comment (none / 0)

this is also you:

I truly do not like Clinton.

I answered your diary's point or what you 'don't understand' and gave you a reason, not just a simple statement.


by linc on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 09:55:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I guess you missed the snide bit of my comment (none / 0)

I guess it's mostly going over my head.  First of all, I'd say the "point" to my diary entry is that even though I don't like Clinton, I still like and respect the overwhelming majority of her supporters, especially those here on MyDD who work so hard for a Democratic government.

I appreciate that you attempted to answer one of the questions in my post, even if it was meant to be snide and turned out to be a bit confusing, because it identified one sentiment that I can sympathize with in this situation: resentment of the opponent.

That being said, it seems as though you were dissatisfied with my post because I did not elaborate on the reasons why I dislike Clinton.  I intentionally left that out because a) The reasons have been listed and rebutted ad nauseam since last summer and b) I didn't want the comments to devolve into yet another dissection of the candidates flaws.


by anevarez on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 10:20:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Your inference is very broad (none / 0)

linc's response was much more specific.  S/he doesn't to support somebody who talks the talk but doesn't walk the walk.  Could you engage the actual response?  


by Trickster on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 01:22:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I am glad you are here, MBNYC. (2.00 / 0)

Both places need calming voices.

In a few months, at most, this will all be over, and the real work of beating McCain will be all our task.


by TomP on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:49:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Thank you, Tom :-) (2.00 / 1)

And I'm sure you'll agree with me that all of these silly flame wars could be foregone if people had just realized that John Edwards was the best candidate in the race :-D


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:55:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thank you, Tom :-) (2.00 / 1)

Nah, then I would be flaming you since I was really pulling for Dodd...


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 09:04:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hey! (2.00 / 1)

Dodd's blogger is a friend of mine, I totally empathize :-)


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 09:08:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey! (2.00 / 1)

I'm voting for the big D in November regardless, but I just have much affection and respect for Senator Dodd...  He comes the closest to walking on water of any of the candidates with me.... and I'm a cynic, so that's saying a lot.


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 09:28:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I hope you find your experience (2.00 / 1)

a good one.  I'm an Obama supporter but I participate in both sites...I enjoy the back and forth here between supporters of both candidates.

That said there are a couple of diarists here that don't strike me as sincere.  They don't respond to honest discussion but instead will get stuck on a talking point ad nauseum.  But if the mods here don't think they're trolls, who am I to say?

Anyway, welcome.


No Way, No How, No McCain!
by GFORD on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:34:30 PM EST

Re: Obama supporter/Clinton hater returns (2.00 / 0)

I am glad you are here.  As a neutral, I believe we need a united party behind whomever wins.

After the HillObama fight is over, the real work begins.  


by TomP on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:46:56 PM EST

Re: Obama supporter/Clinton hater returns (2.00 / 0)

I red'd this but I agree with the point about the word "hate".  I admire Hillary Clinton, I don't hate her or many others.  Hillary is a temporary political enemy.  Temporary.  Dr. King taught us to love our enemies.    

Hillary Clinton is going to be a part of our politics for a long time.  She is smart and tough.  If elected, Barack Obama will need her to make real change.  How could we "hate" anyone who we need?  She will be on our side when it counts after the race is over.


by howardpark on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:55:29 PM EST

Why do you need... (none / 0)

to be both...can't you just be an Obama supporter?


by dvogel001 on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 09:18:04 PM EST

I'm not (none / 0)

if it's me you're asking.  I don't support Clinton whatsoever.  If she managed to win the primary, I would fight for her because a Democratic President is critical to my organization's political strategy, and I'd vote for her because she is a better candidate than John McFraud, but I'd be on full alert nonetheless to make sure she isn't doing anything to sell out working families.


by anevarez on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 09:43:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Angry Mouse here... (2.00 / 0)

Thank you for your post.

Thank you for coming back.

I've posted the same diary on this site just a while ago.  I hope the conversation is as fruitful here as it was at DKos.

And I'm glad the main effect of my diary has been to inspire people to calm down and reach out.


by Angry Mouse on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 10:18:24 PM EST


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