how much of that is tied to your race?

It seems to be common wisdom around here the Barack Obama "injected" race into the campaign (because black people have it easy or something).  Now as a black man I find that and most of the clueless comments about race and racism here quite offense. (hint: MLK was far more complex than the "I have a dream speech" - he actually picked on white folks!) So I wanted to go back. Way back. To take a look at how Obama was treated before the elections even started.

Let me digress for a second, this past week we got to see a wonderful debate on the issues hosted by Charles Gibson and George Stephanopoulos. These are real men of the people. Charles is worried about your capital gains tax and George is just worried about all of those issues you  really care about. In fact, he quickly brought up the #1 issue in  America (the economy) about 50 minutes after the debate started.

He's awesome.

Anyway, I wanted to go back about a year, to show how awesome he truly is. As the evidence will show he's clearly really down with my people.

On May 13 2007, George interviewed Senator Obama. The topics ranged from policy issues such as his qualifications, his policies both domestic and foreign, and the issue of race.

I want to post the questions/comments and responses to the race issue:

George:


[I] the country ready for him?

[T]he 45-year-old who would be America's first
African-American president addressed the key question of his campaign:
Is he ready for the job?

Your candidacy brings the issue of race right to
the top...

You have a very cool style when you're doing
those town meetings, when you're out on the campaign trail. And I
wonder, how much of that is tied to your race?

One of your friends told the New Yorker Magazine
that "the mainstream is just not ready for a fire-breathing black
man." Did you turn down the temperature on purpose?

What does Obama think about the  whole thing?

If I don't win, it's not going to be because of my race. It's
going to be because I didn't project a vision of leadership that gave people confidence. It's going to be because of something I didn't do as opposed to because I'm African-American.

________

Following (and referencing) that interview, in a discussion with Bill Moyers, Melissa Harris-Lacewell, a Princeton professor who studies issues of race in America had the following to say:

BILL MOYERS: So, is he going to stimulate a new conversation about race, as you've just defined it? Or is he going to be a victim of the old conversation?

MELISSA HARRIS-LACEWELL: Well, I think Barack Obama's going to try really hard not to have a conversation about race, because he's legitimately running for the Presidency, and he doesn't want to talk about it-

BILL MOYERS: Yeah, he-- he sa--

MELISSA HARRIS-LACEWELL: from a strategic position.

....

And her take on the election (I'm  sure HRC fans will love it:):

MELISSA HARRIS-LACEWELL: Well he's, I don't think Barack Obama's going to win the American Presidency in 2008- right now he's this kind of opportunity for lots of Democrats to say, "We want something different, we want something new." But my bet is that, that sort of notion of new and different doesn't quite carry over in the general election. I'd love to see him as the Vice President even though I know this irritates a lot of people. I'd love to see him as the Vice President because my bet is that he could win eight years later. And the reason is because we know a lot about black elected officials at other levels-at mayors, congressmen. And it turns out white voters get really comfortable after a black person has been incumbent when they realize that, in fact, no one opens up-- black officeholders don't increase welfare payments or open up the jails and let all the black criminals out.

In fact, black people govern just about the same way that white people govern, and it tends to reduce white anxiety and increase the likelihood of white support when it's a black incumbent.



Display:


Good diary. (2.00 / 0)

Looks like our guy is proving them wrong, eh?

I'm not black but if I was I'd be proud that the best presidential candidate, best run campaign and best outlook for the country's future is a black person.

Actually, I'm a white woman (about Hillary's age too) but sadly this white woman is not the best choice.  If she were Obama and Obama was Hillary, I'd be so proud that such a great candidate was also a woman.

My point, if I have one, is women and black people have been voting for the best choice among a slate of white men all of our lives.  It's nice to have a different choice this time.


No Way, No How, No McCain!
by GFORD on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 04:39:26 PM EST

Re: Good diary. (2.00 / 1)

Well he hasn't won the GE yet so the professor might yet be proven correct. I hope not.

I understand what you're saying. My SO sooooo wanted to vote for HRC and was super-depressed by having to chose between the two (she loved them both initially - I started with Edwards actually) but as the campaign wore on her decision became clear and she voted for Obama. She's pretty pissed at the whole Clinton clan right now.


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 04:43:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: how much of that is tied to your race? (2.00 / 1)

He injected race into the campaign when his campaign accused the Clinton's of injecting race into the campaign - which they hadn't done much to Obama's dismay.

It's the Rove thing - run against people's strengths. One of the things the Clintons have going for them is decades of work on behalf of others and the degree to which they have been stalwart allies of the African American community.

So, Obama's campaign began race baiting - because we're liberals and we deplore racism. Gullible people bought that line of BS. Sad. But human.

As Obama pointed out, had he just been another white guy elected to the senate, he wouldn't gotten book deals out of it, or been asked to give a speech at the national convention.


by Little Otter on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 04:41:25 PM EST

Re: how much of that is tied to your race? (2.00 / 0)

The first account I can find is the Shaheen drug-dealer comment. That was racist and intentional.


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 04:44:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: how much of that is tied to your race? (none / 0)

Not even remotely racist. Obama writes about his drug use in his BS autobiography. Shaheen has concerns that the Right is going to run with it - and they will. The fact that Obama wrote about it in his book will give their charges more weight than it would otherwise. That's not gonna play well with Reagan Democrats.


by Little Otter on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 02:40:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: how much of that is tied to your race? (none / 0)

You're so missing the point here.

When Bill or other democrats of a certain generation confess to drug use, albeit they 'didn't inhale', they are never accused of being DRUG DEALERS.

That's the racial overtone that you're apparent deaf to. I don't blame you. Maybe it's because you're white and female. White men and women get smeared with being drug takers. It takes a basically prejudiced and stereotypical view - i.e. a view of black males - to make the massive leap into assuming someone is a DEALER.


by brit on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 03:12:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: how much of that is tied to your race? (none / 0)

The Falwell tapes accused Clinton of profiting off of the cocaine being run through Mena, Arkansas. Your charge of racism is utter and complete bullshit.


by Little Otter on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 03:25:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: how much of that is tied to your race? (none / 0)

'Shuck and dive' 'Kid' 'drug dealer' - no, little otter, the bullshit is in the mouth of the speaker. And the more you try to twist this one, the more you remind people how low Hillary has sunk.

Keep going. You're doing Obama a favour.


by brit on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 03:54:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: how much of that is tied to your race? (none / 0)

Obama doesn't profit from the truth being told - that's why he lies so much. So, don't for a second think the sleazy manipulation you just tried on me works. That's all you guys got is bullshit charges of racism - and that's the level Obama has sunk to.

You can't scare me off from calling bullshit because I know it when I see it. Obama and his campaign are smearing two of the best friends and most stalwart allies African Americans have had in this country just so a guy with no real accomplishments to his name can win. That's your idea of strategy so be it - but Clinton supporters won't vote for your guy if he's the nominee if that's what you have to do to win.


by Little Otter on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 04:14:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: how much of that is tied to your race? (none / 0)

Calling bullshit with no evidence just looks stupid. Obama and his campaign are winning on any level you care to chose. Deal with it, or go and sulk and vote McCain. You're immune to reason so I'm wasting my time


by brit on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 04:40:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: how much of that is tied to your race? (none / 0)

I have no intention of doing anything except pointing out that Obama is the one inserting race into the campaign and profiting from the accusation of racism. i will point out that you cannot explain how the Clintons could hope to benefit from it.

If you're going to vote for McCain if Clinton's the nominee, that's on you and you take moral responsibility for that. I won't vote for McCain or Obama. It's that simple. And Clinton supporters are in blue states that he needs to win.

You and I both know the truth - Obama couldn't win running an honest campaign. So he chose to smear two fine Democrats with charges of racism and looked the other way  at the misogyny. Water finds it's own level.


by Little Otter on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 05:29:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Water finds its own level... (none / 0)

...and froth rises to the top. Keep on keeping on.


by brit on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 05:34:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Water finds its own level... (none / 0)

so does hot air - I'll let you have the last word.


by Little Otter on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 07:40:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

grins :-) (none / 0)


by brit on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 07:43:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: how much of that is tied to your race? (none / 0)

Oh. I forgot that Bill Clinton and George Bush were asked if they were drug dealers. Can you give me a link to when they were asked that. I can't seem to find any.


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 10:44:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: how much of that is tied to your race? (2.00 / 0)

I should add that pointing out racism or racially questionable comments is the right thing to do.


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 04:48:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: how much of that is tied to your race? (none / 0)

You're lying little otter. It's the most common thread on MYDD. Obama played the race card first. The only backing you have for that blatant mistruth is Sean Wilentz, a paid stooge and old friend of the clintons.

This misinformation about Obama playing the race card first would be pathetic if it wasn't also defamatory AND inflammatory. First, for starters, READ THE DIARY. Obama knew that if he was narrowly seen as only representing the interest of African Americans he would never achieve the result he has

Secondly - he's mixed race. How can he play reverse racism when his mother was white? Only in your wild losing imagination do you need to frame him as such, in order to explain the dismal failures of the Hillary campaign.

Thirdly, all the evidence shows that there were dog whistles about Obama's unelectability from Bill and Cuomo. Now I don't think Bill is at all racist. But there is a common meme that 'Americans will never elect a black president' and by making the fatuous Jesse Jackson comparison, Bill pissed off a lot of people with his patronising attitude. Not surprisingly, a lot of African Americans, and millions of other Americans of many hues said 'fuck you'.

Fourthly, imagine how you would feel. You're the first candidate of your race/gender to make it this far in a presidential campaign. You are attacked for your difference. And when you call people on this you are mocked for calling the race/gender card.

Hold on. You see my point. You know what my fourth point is like exactly, because you decry misogyny when it comes to Hillary. But your imagination and conscience fails you when it comes to Obama's supporters defending him from racist remarks.

Supporters mind you. Obama has never complained about anything but 'diviseness'. Listen to his Philadelphia speech on race, and you'll hear him explicitly defend Ferraro.

But actually, I don't think you'll listen. And you're presenting a huge problem for many people who think racism, like sexism, is not a obloquy to be played with lightly.

Next time you lie like this, I'd like to see some evidence. And don't give me links to Sean Wilentz. Give me some dates and facts on HOW OBAMA PLAYED THE RACE CARD FIRST

Otherwise, you're just perpetuating something really quite evil - the idea that people who defend themselves from racist attacts are actually perpetrators of it.

Shut up or paste up


by brit on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 06:00:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: how much of that is tied to your race? (none / 0)

Alll the dogwhistle allegations come from Obama supporters who otherwise didn't have a way to diminish Clinton's well earned support among African Americans. Gullible people fell for it. Smart people saw it as a cagey, dishonest move that smeared some very worthwhile people.

The only reason you want me to shut up is that you know I'm right. People who have the truth on their side don't order other people to quit talking.

If you want to know why Clinton supporters are throwing their hands up in the air and saying that they won't vote for obama should he be the nominee, posts like yours are a large part of the reason. I won't vote for McCain but I will not vote for a Democrat who cynically smears successful Democrats, employs misogyny and tolerates the thuggery we've witnessed among his supporters. If you want Clinton supporters to not skip voting for the president if he's the nominee, you better find a way to reign your dialogue in.


by Little Otter on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 02:45:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: how much of that is tied to your race? (none / 0)

That's disingenuous. The dogwhistle allegations might have come from Obama supporters (not the Obama campaign mind you) but that doesn't mean there wasn't a racial overtone in the statements of Bill, Cuomo etc. You say it was a dishonest move. I say, and so do millions of others, that these original statements were inflammatory.

We can argue endlessly about the 'who started it' but you have to realise that it's deeply problematic to accuse the 'alleged' victim of racism of race baiting. Can't you see the problem? In terms of sexual politics it's like a rapist saying because a woman was dressed in a sexual way 'she was asking for it'.

If you can't understand the sensibilities, and sensitivities you're dealing with here in racial politics, then I don't know what to say. Fortunately there are a lot of women who see BOTH sensitivities, and a careful not to blame the victim for an attack.

As for the rapprochement between Hillary and Obama supporters: I've said it before and I'll say it again. It needs to happen. Neither candidate can win without the bulk of the other's supporters. And while it's all very good you saying 'I haven't convinced you' or I 'ought to reign my dialogue in', Little Otter, I've seen many inflammatory remarks you've made to Obama supporters. Despite dozens of them trying to build bridges a couple of weeks ago, the net result was a rec list filled with Ayers and Elitism diaries (a mixture of Rovian smear by association and Nixonian checkers' speeches). Where was your attempt to build bridges?

I've met many decent Hillary supporters with whom I've had a constructive if sometimes testy dialogue. But there is a hard core here who would prefer the democratic nominee fails in the fall were it to be Obama. I hope you're not one of them. And if you can take assertive dialogue then wow, you sure can dish it out.  

Can't we make up and be friends?


by brit on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 03:07:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: how much of that is tied to your race? (none / 0)

How has Obama been the victim of race baiting by the Clintons? Evidence please. I see no evidence of that, nor do I see anyway the Clintons could benefit from racism. In fact, the most likely beneficiary of an accusasation of racism is Obama - because we're Democrats and we oppose racism.

Please - show me evidence that racist remarks from the Clintons have hurt, or could have hurt Obama, in any fashion. I've yet to see anyone point out a strategy, whereby a white candidate who has worked their entire life on behalf of African American communities, can now benefit from racist rhetoric.

Obama is a guy with no resume to speak of and no real accomplishments to his name. He's a guy who knows how to run rough campaigns and that's about it. He doesn't do stuff. He doesn't get stuff done. So he can't run on his resume or his accomplisments - he can only run as the anti-Clinton. And that's what he's done. So, his campaign accuses her of racism, and peels off a big segment of her supporters. His supporters accuse her of being a corporatist, and pro-war. They entertain themselves on his dime by referring to her as a "fucking whore". His coarse-mouthed wife thinks its funny to talk about scratching Bill Clinton's eyes out and yet is so inferior, so irresponsible as a mother to allow her daughters to be exposed to the racist and misogynist rantings of Jeremiah Wright. Hillary Clinton may never have been called a nigger, but she's been called a fucking whore and Obama supporters found that entertaining. That moment pretty much encapsulates how I think Obama and his supporters see this race.  

Obama has to earn people's vote and the fact that he didn't call a press conference with 24 hours to distance himself from that Rhodes diatribe pretty much means he's okay with it happening on his behalf.

Should I assume that the first time a right wing nationally known talk show host refers to Obama and wife in similarly discriminatory tones, you guys are going to look the other way?


by Little Otter on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 03:45:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: how much of that is tied to your race? (none / 0)

Your foul mouthed, incoherent and unsubstantiated rant has just exposed you as someone beyond reason - intolerant and completely prejudiced.

And the hypocrisy of calling me out for 'reigning my dialogue in'

Good luck with persuading people with that kind of rant. No wonder your argument, and your candidate, is losing badly.


by brit on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 03:52:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: how much of that is tied to your race? (none / 0)

Ahhh, truth hurts, doesn't it? Your reaction pretty much validates everything I said. And that's why obama isn't going to get the Clinton votes that most Democrats could rely on; because none of you - including your candidate and his coarse-mouthed wife (and yes, joking about scratching out the eyes of the only Democratic president to win reelection in 50 years is coarse,  immature and trashy) - have the minimum level of integrity to deal with what's transpired against Clinton in this race. All of you have been willing to betray Democratic principles right and left to see this person get the nomination.

You aren't getting it - you have to earn out votes and we feel betrayed. And if we feel betrayed by your candidate, we won't vote for him.


by Little Otter on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 04:20:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: how much of that is tied to your race? (none / 0)

You've been betrayed by Hillary. That's why you're having problems facing the truth


by brit on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 04:41:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: how much of that is tied to your race? (none / 0)

Oh such an Angry Negro she is. We're all ANGRY NEGROES!!!! How do we dial it down!!?!!


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 10:47:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: how much of that is tied to your race? (none / 0)

Just looked upthread and found a complete example of your racial myopia - i.e. the difference between a drug user and a drug DEALER.

And please, Little Otter, if you're going to tell somebody to rein their dialogue in, maybe charity begins at home. You missed the racist subtext AND you called Obama's biography 'bullshit'.


by brit on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 03:14:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: how much of that is tied to your race? (none / 0)

Clinton was acccused of profiting off the drug running in Mena Arkansas. He was also accused of having a nose "like a hoover". Clinton was accused of being a drug runner and a drug user. Don't give me crap about it being racist.

And Obama has admitted that he created composite characters and situations to tell his story - so, yes, his autobiography is bullshit.

I'll be charitable when the candidates are moral equals.


by Little Otter on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 07:25:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: how much of that is tied to your race? (none / 0)

The way you skew your sources leads me to suspect that partisanship has totally swamped any sense of morality.

And whatever the political virtues of the Clintons, the whole world knows that 'morality' was not the most salient.

Think you've picked a loser there


by brit on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 07:46:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: how much of that is tied to your race? (none / 0)

Was Clinton accused of that by Obama? If not, your point please?


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 10:46:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: how much of that is tied to your race? (none / 0)

Us stupid black people can't recognize racism is that it?


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 10:45:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: how much of that is tied to your race? (2.00 / 1)

Excellent diary, sir. Kudos to you.


Hooray for John McCain!
by ragekage on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 04:45:20 PM EST

The Race wasn't tied to Race (2.00 / 1)

until the candidate discovered that he wasn't going to win on substance

I still say -
put both candidates behind a curtain - have a woman read both candidates' words, then a man read another set of both candidates' words. Look at the BLACK AND WHITE print on paper that compares these two individuals' activities and ACCOMPLISHMENTS that support their ability to handle the office of POTUS.

When both race and gender bias are taken from the equation, then we will have a fair and balanced election - not before.


by pan230oh on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 04:45:53 PM EST

Re: The Race wasn't tied to Race (2.00 / 0)

BS.  He never trailed.

There are more white women in positions of political power (governors, senators, congresswomen) than there are black men. Get off of it.


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 04:50:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: how much of that is tied to your race? (2.00 / 1)

Just curious if you think you are injecting race by writing about this?  Because you have the option to write about why you think Barack Obama is the most qualified to be our next President.  Or you could write about why you think Barack understands economic policy better than Clinton.

I have an honest question for you.

As a black man, does it bother you at all to see the long list of honorable public servants that have worked on behalf of the African American community completely savaged by the Obama anger machine?  When the Obama bus drove over Tavis Smiley, was that finally crossing a line?  Or do you think all these people and their work deserve to be denigrated?


by bobbank on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 04:48:22 PM EST

Re: how much of that is tied to your race? (2.00 / 0)

Did MLK inject race into America by talking about racism?

Tavis Smiley? Hahahah. You're killing me. You probably think Bob Johnson is a credit to us African-Americans.

Please list all of the "honorable public servants" you speak of and then show how they were denigrated and who did it.


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 04:51:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: how much of that is tied to your race? (none / 0)

Gee Bob, it's been hours and you have yet to provide links to support your argument.


"In the primary you should vote with your heart, but in the general, you should vote with your head" Hillary's husband
by venician on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 12:34:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Race and gender issues (2.00 / 1)

have both been predominant in this Dem. primary.  Look at our candidates. Equal time has been spent in the media about both issues.  Obama has said that he wanted to run his campaign as post-racial, and I lauded him for that.  But when he started to say things like "hoodwinked. . . bamboozled" in his speeches to appeal to the African-American votes, I became suspect.  Is that post-racial?  I have been disappointed in Obama's attacks on the Clintons' work on behalf of the African-American community--perhaps even more could have been done by them, but they did do more than most.  But I thought, OMG, he's alienating a big percentage of the Democratic party against other Dems.  I respect Hillary for not bringing up the gender issue.  She did not give any speeches about sexism or misogyny that has been rampant in this campaign.  She to me has been running a "post-gender" campaign and has been running primarily on her policies and experience, which I value in a candidate.  I also respect Mayor Nutter of Philadelphia because he endorsed a candidate after interviewing them both and agreeing with Hillary's solutions for dealing with inner-city problems.  He was open-minded about it, and based his decision, not on race, but on policy recommendations.  This is what we as voters need to examine carefully and base our vote on what the candidate proposes and if we agree with that or not.


truthseeker2
by truthseeker2 on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 08:35:42 PM EST

Re: Race and gender issues (none / 0)

Wait. Clinton says she's getting ganged up on by the boys but she didn't bring up gender. Obama says hoodwinked and bamboozled and he brought up race. You're not an honest player. Sorry.


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 10:19:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: how much of that is tied to your race? (none / 0)

Isn't the title of your diary something you should be asking yourself?


by ellend818 on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 12:34:14 AM EST

Re: how much of that is tied to your race? (none / 0)

No.


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 10:19:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]


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