Do you think we're retarded?

Oh my god.

You can't be serious.

Come on now, look at the clip.  His face is itching and he scratches it regularly.  Do you really think he was scratching his face the entire time in order to set up some sort of weird motion that is only going to be noticed if you freeze frame a still?

This picture just surfaced, too! Take it and run with it, Tex!

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/YVynnbx1Xsc&hl=en"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/YVynnbx1Xsc&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

What I love about the clip is the reference.  No one over 35 is going to get what I'm talking about, which is good, but there's a reason the younger people in the crowd erupted.

We're seriously grasping at straws here, aren't we?

Please watch this side-on view video of the same event.  The relevant bit is at 20:50:

http://www.ustream.tv/swf/3/viewer.111.s wf?&loc=/&vid=355941

No "bird" in sight, just a plainly visible two finger cheek scratch.

Some screen caps:

In the future please try not to assume the worst of our Democratic Presidential Candidates.

So it went from extracting one word from Obama's speeches and turning them into Clinton campaign talking points.

Now you're going to focus on the itch on his cheek?

Nice job on reaching the newest low.

i didnt see it until just now, im speechless.

Ok, I slept on the story last night.   And I found my conclusion.

I'm making this comment from a point of view of someone who is living in a foreign country.

Granted that Obama's finger was unintentional, it will create a nuke bomb if he did this while making speech "in the same context" referring to a foreign leader.

Imagine he's making speech referring to Sarkozy the French Prime Minister, Merkel the German Chancellor, or Hu Jintao the Chinese President, and scratch his face with his middle finger. There will be an uproar in those countries, and they won't take excuse from Obama supporters swamping the blog.

His conduct is unpresidential. He is not ready for prime time. DNC backs a wrong horse. And it turns out to be a huge embarrassment.

No wonder people are disenchanted with politics if this kind of specious nonsense is considered important.

Uh, admins, aren't we supposed to have standards here?

Where's the Zapruder footage to settle this once and for all?

I weep for this site.

Yeah, we do have some experience with Presidents doing this in the past. So, it's not like we're surprised by it or anything. What's the big deal?

Maybe it's a sign of qualification for the office of the President of the US:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpL6EIMSh O4

 HRC supporters are making to much of this!  how dare they think that BO is giving HRC the finger when most people use their middle finger to scratch their face!  how stupid are they to make a non-issue when MSM is picking this up and agree?  even though BO is specifically disparaging HRC at the very moment a 2 different events when is face is itchy, they are reading WAY too much into it?  i mean HRC supporters are really delusional.

I have been saying it for a while now.  Obama has no history of ever doing anyhting worthwhile.  He is privileged and is used to being funded by criminals.  He is also fond of and thinks it is cute to insult other people by flashing the "bird."  There are no records that are kept of his time in office in Illinois.  The ONLY difference is the accent.  His followers are just as blinded as Bush's followers.  There is absolutely no difference whatsoever.

Just an FYI:

THE MERE ACT OF WRITING THIS POST , excuse me, the mere act of writing this post, and suggesting something this ridiculous removes ANY ABILITY to qualify any other human behavior as 'Grownup.'

You can be an expert in childishness, which explains why anyone would see that clip and think the middle finger was in any way employed.

P.S. Given Bush's use of it though, and Cheney's vocab, maybe it's the new form of presidential discourse. Ha! I kid. Seriously though, you've got to be kidding.

Again, this thread belongs on Hillaryis44.

This is NOT two different occurances.

I played the above clip at the exact same time as this one. It's easy, just put them next to each other with the Baltimore Sun clip on the right and sync them up.

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/news/pol itics/blog/2008/04/obama_fingers_a_gotch a_debate.html>Baltimore Sun Clip

It's easy, just put them next to each other with the Baltimore Sun clip on the right and sync them up.

His words, mannerisms and the crowd reactions are exactly the same.

The difference in the backqround is due to two different TV angles. I know it seems like it can't be the same backdrop, but that is one of the things that video does. The crowd is actually much further back than they look, so the angles fall on different people. Look at the banner text to see how far apart they are.

I don't know if it was the bird, but it was only one occurance.

I'm quite serious about this thread being deleted.  It's misleading and serves no purpose but to stir people up and NOT get anyone decent elected.

This is the Dean scream with the applause edited out all over again.

What is this...the FOURTH diary on whether or not Obama flipped the bird?  

I've said it before, but it bears repeating:

THIS IS SO DUMB THAT THEY ACTUALLY MADE A SEINFELD EPISODE ABOUT IT!  

That's where we are.  

Congrats, Us!

What is interesting is why people would find this credible.  For example, the fact that Obama is making other dismissive physical gestures in the same clip (brushing his shoulder and hip).  For example, the fact that he sneers at Clinton frequently.  For example, the fact that he called her "likeable enough."

I don't know whether he was flipping off Clinton or not (I suspect he was), but for me the rest of the clip is enough for me to form an opinion of his attitude, and I suspect for a lot of other voters too.  

And bullshit non-issue #44587 makes the rec-list at MyDD.

So glad I signed up here, folks.  Really taking intelligent discourse to a new level.

Well, now that this has made the rec list, I thought I'd unveil a joke.

Q: What do you call someone who votes for Hillary in the primary and McCain in the general?

A: A dittohead.

OPERATION CHAOS

Since you have made the rec list, I would ask you to please update the diary to correct one big inaccuracy.

It is not two debates.

You say:

And he did it twice!  At 2 separate events...same speech, same pause, same gesture

As I explain above, it is two different camera angles. The difference in the backqround is due to two different TV angles. I know it seems like it can't be the same backdrop, but that is one of the things that video does. The crowd is actually much further back than they look, so the angles fall on different people. Look at the banner text to see how far apart they are.

Play your above diaried clip at the exact same time as this one.

Baltimore Sun Clip

It's easy, just put them next to each other with the Baltimore Sun clip on the right and sync them up.

His words, mannerisms and the crowd reactions are exactly the same. It is the same speech.

You can also look at the side view clip provided by moreperfectunion to see how far back the audience behind him is and see why it looks like two differentt audiences even though it is just two different angles.

http://www.ustream.tv/swf/3/viewer.111.s wf?&loc=/&vid=355941

It simply does your post no good to have a glaring inaccuracy in it.

As I have posted above, I do think that discussion of this issue is relevant. I am not sure whether he intended to flip her the bird, but it is clear from the audience reaction that they thought he did, and that he realizes it at least after the fact.

What I find much more troubling as I have also said above, is the other provocative gestures that he makes and the content of the speech. Look above for the vidcaps of him brushing his shoulder, pumping his arm at his side, and wiping off his pantleg. These actions are certainly deliberate, baiting, bullying behavior.

Thank you.

I can't believe this made it to the recommended diaries.

Silly season, indeed.

What's next for MyDD?  WTC conspiracy theories?

I can't wait for the inevitable "Hillary is Nazi" response p[ost with all the freezeframes which clearly show Hillary comes out with a Nazi Salute at every rally. I mean sure that's not wehat she's actually doing but if you freezeframe it right you can clearly see Hillary subconcious affinity for the third Reich.

Did Obama Give a `Flip' Response to Clinton Attacks?

I think this one's a stretch.  A lot of people, particularly men, seem to use the middle finger rather than the index finger.  We should give him the benefit of the doubt on that.

Overall, though, I think his comments on the debate were whiny and thin-skinned.  Obama doesn't seem to be able to handle criticism or even hard questioning, even though his own campaign's jabs at Hillary have been quite nasty.  The questions about Rev. Wright, about Obama's San Francisco remarks regarding small town people, and about his Weather Underground friend Ayers are legitimate.  People want to know what kind of person Obama is, and those are indications.

I thought his response about Ayers, and his counter attack citing Bill Clinton's clemency to two other Weather Underground members who served many years in prison, was disingenuous -- the very sort of thing he was whining about.  After all, giving clemency (not pardons!) to two individuals who have served years in prison and who (as far as I know) are not making current statements that they wished they had committed more crimes, is very different from chumming up to someone who is completely unrepentant and who got off on a technicality.  If Obama does not see the difference, then his moral compass needs adjustment.

I said months ago that he is one of those rare people of whom I can say, the more I see of him, the less I like him.  If he is the nominee, he'll go down in flames because his free ride with the media is finally coming to an end.  It is just sad for the Democratic party that it took so long to happen.

texasdarlin "the finger" or was i just scratchin an itch.

(please stand by for live video feed)

in diary posts.

It's ironic that your response to a speech pointing out that it's silly to get bogged down in distractions is to get bogged down in a silly distraction. All you're doing is proving the point he was making in his speech.

I've seen the alleged evidence, and the assertion that he "smirked" and that the audience reacted in a way that proves they thought he was making a rude gesture is no more than wishful thinking. The man's face probably itched under the lights, so he scratched it, and the audience cheered what he had just said. That's all this is.

You're really grasping at straws, here.

hmmm.   the last president that gave the finger to the cameras was....???? what a contemptuous display of his hurt ego.

as clinton put it today... we need a president that can stand the stress of the white house, and it's far more stressful than a 90 min debate. we need a president that isn't going to whine about how hard it gets, how hard the questions get.... don't we already have that kind of president?

Look at this angle (from Obama's right) from CBS News. Obama clearly uses two fingers to rub his cheek. The second finger is obscured by the middle finger in the front view you've chosen to highlight.

What pathetic tripe (again).

I think TD must be right.  Just look at who agrees:

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/04/18/ did-obama-give-a-flip-response-to-clinto n-attacks/

I love the smell of smear diaries in the morning.  Seriously though, I think this is the diary that unequivocally proves that you're either a troll or at least severely delusional.  I refuse to believe that any rational human being can watch those clips and not realize that they are from the same event.  You're either lying or crazy.

By the way, you take the time to make your title more incendiary but don't correct the glaring error that this speech was only made at one event (not two, as you claimed)?

What a freaking joke.

ZOMG! He flipped her the pinky too!!!!  This is such satisfying debate!!!

What a joke this diary is.  

Anyone second me?

Manipulate a scratch for a finger to wallow in animosity and partisanship.

What would Obama do with another distraction argument...

(Dusting dirt of shoulders)

...if you look closely you can see a detonation on the 67th floor

Today on Obama's website he is giving a speech on the economy and he is scratching his face with his middle and ring finger.

It really is NOT a big deal.

Just another attempt of a losing campaign trying to find anything they can, throwing it out there and hoping it sticks....it's sort of sad that they have resorted to Obama-bashing diaries instead of focusing on Clinton's strengths...A true sign of desperation.....

This diary makes me embarrassed to have been a Clinton supporter. I apologize on behalf of all moderate Clinton supporters that pledge allegiance to progressive values.

Loyalty is admirable, but how is this diary going to help either DEM defeat McCain?

SILLY

Good god. If this isn't a stretch I don't know what is. Grow up and get a life.

I know everyone here is so busy analyzing polls etc., and cannot imagine how this might mean anything to anyone..I can only speak for myself but it would matter.., alot..if he is the pres and is representing the US to the world..yes it would matter.  I think it does matter.  I would probably have a great time hanging out with him at a bar  etc., but it really is a question of plain old manners..

I thought FOR SURE I'd see "snark" or "humor" in you tags.  

Being someone of more than average intelligence, you certainly don't really believe that he flipped her off.  Clearly...CLEARLY you have posted this to stir things up or to advance the myth as a form of political fighting, but now that you have been called on it...I beg you to admit that you PERSONALLY don't believe he has done something so silly.

You are far better than this, TD.

Sad sad sad.  You took time to post this, and then it gets on the list of most reccd diaries?  What an embarrassment for this site and for you.  What a joke.

This is a "jump the shark" diary.

If Obama is the nominee he will be beaten so badly in November that it will leave the party damaged for a generation.  Women, African Americans, Hispanics, and labor will all be at loggerheads.  Not to mention that we will see the Supreme Court set in stone for decades to come.

So, great! We give the nod to some juvenile, inexperienced, all-hat-no-cows political neophyte from Chicago and throw away 50 years in the process? Because a McCain presidency will cement all the domestic and international abuses of the Bush administration.

Truly pathetic.

Just for grins, I read through this entire diary...

...then I threw another $100 Obama's way.  

What, that wasn't the intention behind this diary?

Sorry I'm late to the party here, but just came home for lunch.

TexasDarlin states that Obama did this at two separate events...same speech, same pause...

Is there a link for this other event?

This diary got recommended?  Really?  I mean, really?

   that a crap diary like this makes the recommended list.

  Next you'll be accusing Obama of murdering someone for crack money.

I'm just scratching my head at how the diarist can get away with this.  The lie that it's two events, plus the lie that it's a middle finger at all now that there's a side shot of it.

PATHETIC

 What's next? Parsing stills for covert gang signs? Playing clips backwards trying to hear him say "Hills-A-Bitch"? I realize 15 months of this grueling slog has unhinged alot of folks on both sides, but this is right up there with looking for stealth Illuminati codes in a Bush speech....

Obama 08

I thought I had seen the stupidest possible diaries on here, I really did.

But this takes the prize. Congratulations.

DaveOinSF
susanhu
Caldonia
Tennessean
nonwhiteperson
TeresaInPa
campskunk
LindaSFNM
msharp
Beltway Dem
KnowVox
ghost 2
americanincanada
psychodrew
BRockNYC
OtherLisa
JoeySky18
toddy
aroundtheblock
Molee
linc
cameoanne
BPK80
catfish1
macmcd
jarhead5536
Nobama
bach
susanclare
devans
mcctx
curryorama
mbolack
environmentally blue
DemAC
Zebra01
Cassyma
mztower
canadian gal
louisprandtl
CoyoteCreek

You should all be ashamed of yourselves, if you're capable.

Why are you still allowed to post here? Pathetic.

Just out of curiosity, when you see an instant replay in televised sports do you think the players are actually redoing the play for you see it again?  I only ask because you seem a bit confused by the idea of multiple cameras.

Unbelievable that trash like this makes the recommended list.

This is garbage.  Go work for McCain.

I know I for one could never even imagine scratching my face with my middle finger, especially in public.  Have the naysayers ever actually tried it?  It feels jarringly awkward and rude.  

Clearly, something else was going on here.  It's not the end of the world, but does reveal his character more and more.  

Obama's own campaign posted this on You Tube in support of his candidacy.

That sucks!

That was timed, on cue, plus he smirked.

Anyone a little street wise knows what this means and the crowd sure did.

I have seen this many times with people that want to let the people around them know without letting the "authority figure" know they were flipping them off.

It's a way to keep "plausible deniability" that they aren't doing that, so they don't lose their job or whatever. It's sneaky and very unprofessional.

If you have ever been around working class people y'all would know this. It takes a deliberate act to scratch your face with the index finger down. It's not the natural way our hands work.

The deniers are either naive or going along with it and think it's fine. Either way, it's adolescent behavior, not befitting a president.

A Senator...Harvard graduate?

Hey Dear Oprah Please look at your Guy!

Maybe MSNBC can talk about this new Obama gesture.
He also whines like a baby... uhaah according to Hannity.

He clearly didn't give her the finger.  I think the stills from above and common bleeping sense should tell you that.  Watching the video should tell you that.  

He scratched his cheek with both his index and middle finger!  I mean lets be real.

And maybe there's a hint on why you're HRC supporters in thinking thats what the audience was cheering.  They were cheering "She looked in her element" ie gotcha manufactured controversy politics...

Sort of like what this story is trying to be a part of!

After his insults to the small town folks...
I bet he can be a low as it gets.

I need a President who respects women, who fight for them, and who will put our priority in her list.--- that candidate is Hillary. Thank you very much.

This diary is useful for separating the batshit Hillary supporters from the sane ones.

I mean my god.

The guy was scratching his face.

I prefer the nutbar thread where Obama was ref-ing a Jay-Z song while flipping off Hillary...

I like a good two-fer in my completely insane conspiracy theories!

Texas Darlin', you been outdone!

How trashy, and how exposing of this so called honorable person's character. He reminds me so much of George W with his personality--pompous, arrogant, struggles to speak without a teleprompter, and now, he has his own middle finger moment. This is pretty obviously the middle finger--and the whole "brush your shoulders off" thing reminds me of a classic college frat boy.

Just joins his other "frat boy" moment in the debate where he made sure to stress that when he got his HIV test it was with Michelle and NOT ANOTHER MAN, we wouldn't want to think he was gay or anything...

Maybe we shouldn't reinstate banned people.  Just a thought.

Are the admins honestly surprised by this?

TexasDarlin is a troll and has nothing to add to this site.

Oh yes, please, go all the way with this important controversy.  I mean, after all, the  previous "political distractions" have done Senator Clinton SO MUCH GOOD that Obama now leads her nationally by 14 points.

I watched the "brush off" speech and it was quite obvious that he was refering to the dirt figuratively thrown at him, not to Senator Clinton personally.  And if it is a gesture that is familar from hip hop culture so what?  I saw him scratch his face while the audience reacted to his crack about Senator Clinton being "in her element."  Even from the front it did not really look like he was giving the finger and I don't care how many times you saw some smart aleck kid do a "sneaky finger" in high school.  You guys are starting to look and sound like loons.

I know that you are now wedded to your insane intrepretation and your over the top notions about Obama's character.  It is a shame that you can not see the damage you are doing your candidate with this garbage.

The guy just can't stop himself, can he.  He is honestly acting like a teenager....and he is MY age.

As much as I can't stand Dick Cheney, Dubya, Rumsfield etc, I would not flick them the bird like that.  Have some fucking respect, Barry.

I saw the 8 second video on YT last night.  I had trouble believing that someone running for president would do this. Then I saw the complete arrogant clip of him doing this, and arrogantly mocking some concerns that have been following him for months .  I saw the audience observe it and laugh directly at that particular movement, and saw the smirk on his face while he waited for the audience to react.  

I thought about it again today, and truly decided that I can't stomach voting for him.  I have been trying hard to bring myself around to voting for him just because he is a democrat and I don't want anything to do with republicanism , but I truly don't think I can do it.

He is a completely foriegn being to me.  His arrogance is worse than Bush's, and he seems not to really care if he is hurting or insulting over half the democrats who are supporters of Hillary's.  He just doesn't care.  He snickers with his own supporters.  Others be damned.  He is childish and insulting and seemingly below the stature of a president, and I won't be able to shake that impression by November.

This is a Rorschach test.

Those that want to see "something bad" will see it

To everyone else, he scratched his cheek.

Rashamon.....

Congratulations... Politico just declared your story Bogus Story of the Day

Are there still people who think he flipped her off?

It's easy to see who is still connected to reality and who isn't. Those that aren't can be easily dismissed going forward.