Barack gives Hillary "the finger"

Previously entitled "Grown-ups only for President, please!"

Even my 74-year old mom took one look at this, and said: he's giving the finger!

Obama's own campaign posted this on You Tube in support of his candidacy. What does that say about his character, maturity, arrogance, respect for women, and respect for Hillary? Who's Barack's target audience? What is the message he means to convey? This is the guy who says he'll sit down with enemy leaders around the world and diplomatically discuss our differences?

And he did it twice!  At 2 separate events...same speech, same pause, same gesture -- proving that Barack Obama deliberately flipped off Hillary.

Here is the short video version of the second time Obama made the obscene gesture while talking about Hillary's debate performance.

And here is the longer version of the same incident. You can see by the audience reaction and Barack's own smirks that there was no ambiguity as to what was intended.

Long version...

In the words of my 22-year-old niece: "If you're going to have the audacity to flip someone off as a presidential candidate, then at least have the chutzpah to actually flip them off....how old are you that you have to scratch your face with your middle finger instead?  If he had done it directly, he'd still be a jack ass, but now he's a jack ass and juvenile."

For more detail , including the mainstream media outlets which are now running the story, there are a couple of excellent posts at No Quarter.

Cross posted at texasdarlin.wordpress.com



Display:


Re: Grown-ups only for President, please! (1.47 / 21)

Do you think we're retarded?


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 10:27:58 AM EST

Re: Grown-ups only for President, please! (2.00 / 7)


Hooray for John McCain!
by ragekage on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 10:33:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

When TD posts.. (1.85 / 7)

a diary....everyone who wants a Democrat for President hurts.


by JoeCoaster on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 11:31:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

If she's right.. then this race should be OVER.. (1.66 / 3)

but then again.. Bush did it and got away with it later..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVynnbx1X sc

But seriously, I think that is a very rude and UNPROFESSIONAL thing to do.


Universal healthcare IS a core Democratic value
Comprehensively cover 100%, not only the healthiest 80%
by architek on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 12:51:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

touching your face... (2.00 / 7)

Touching your face is "rude and UNPROFESSIONAL" now?  Wow...that's some tough gesture standards you got there.

But seriously, quite insulting our intelligence. I understand that "smear politics" depends on quantity more then quality but this is ridiculous.  


by JoeCoaster on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:00:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: touching your face... (2.00 / 1)

What's ridiculous is that you have a democratic candidate flipping the bird at another democratic candidate.  There's no ambiguity to this.  I saw it last night on TV and immediately realized what he was doing, as did the crowd he was addressing, to judge by the hoots.

I was watching the news with my mother, by the way.  She was shocked at the behavior and announced very loudly and on the spot that he had just lost her vote.  (You should also know that I had been working to get her to switch from Obama to Clinton for months, with little headway.)  That kind of action doesn't go over well with a certain generation.

But let's not pretend he didn't know what he was doing or that we are reading intentions into something that didn't really happen.  It was too obvious and the audience reaction was too distinctive...not to mention it happened twice.  Even Keith Olbermann paid it token coverage last night.


The universe is a casual place, not a suit-and-tie affair.
by mtnspirit on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:28:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: touching your face... (2.00 / 1)

Please look at the video showing it from another angle if you really want to pursue this.  Go to about 20:00 and wait.


by Mostly on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:30:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: touching your face... (none / 0)

I concede...  the hardest part for me was having to tell my Mom that we misread Obama's gesture.  Now she's back to being a die hard Obama supporter.  Sigh.


The universe is a casual place, not a suit-and-tie affair.
by mtnspirit on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 05:45:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: touching your face... (none / 0)

did a future version of all you people pushing this line come back via time machine to warn you not to stake your reputations on this clearly false charge? Demostrably so? As in, "look at another angle" as in "this is why people see Bigfoot or clouds shaped like Bunnies... because its what they're looking for?"

Cuz if I was future you(plural) I'd totally do that.


Fight the Smears!
by Lettuce on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:50:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: touching your face... (none / 0)

Wow, someone has given me my first troll rating EVER.  Not sure I understand why, but it's pretty exciting!


The universe is a casual place, not a suit-and-tie affair.
by mtnspirit on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 04:43:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: touching your face... (none / 0)

Ahhhh, Now I understand...this is tit for tat.


The universe is a casual place, not a suit-and-tie affair.
by mtnspirit on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 04:52:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: touching your face... (none / 0)

I wish I could say that I am surprised by Clinton supporters but at this point, nothing shocks me anymore.  You are so angry, so upset, so helplessly maligned that the ONLY thing you can do is INTIMATE or ASSUME that he is giving her the bird?  OMFG - you people seriously need to grow up.  This, THIS RIGHT HERE is the best that you have to throw at him?  Feigned outrage over a supposed slight that didn't happen.  You people are sad...go read a book, see a movie, do something other than pouring over youtube footage like it's the Zapruder film.  You have officially crossed over into crazyland...enjoy your stay.


by Rockville Liberal on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 05:58:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: touching your face... (none / 0)

Hmmm...sounds like you are the angry one.  Maybe you should hold that discerning judgment of yours up to a mirror?


The universe is a casual place, not a suit-and-tie affair.
by mtnspirit on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 06:46:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: touching your face... (none / 0)

anger and annoyance are two wholly separate emotions, but thanks for playing.


by Rockville Liberal on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 07:00:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If she's right.. then this race should be OVER (none / 0)

This is probably the stupidest post ever. Congratulations!

It pains me to see how someone's love for Clinton can create hate for Obama and vice-versa.

Why aren't you on the McCain websites? You are not a Clinton supporter and we know it.

Tard.


Obama 08!
by comingawakening on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 04:58:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

This diary is trash (1.83 / 6)

and should be deleted by the admins.  A new low for MyDD.


by ReillyDiefenbach on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:32:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

retarded is the word you chose? (2.00 / 4)


For Obama it now becomes: Faith, hope and CHANGE! And the greatest of these is Change!
by TeresaInPa on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 10:41:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: retarded is the word you chose? (none / 0)

Megadittos, Teresa.


by Mostly on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:31:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: retarded is the word you chose? (none / 0)

I am happy to agree with 'TeresaInPA' for probably the first time ever.

Seriously TexDarlin, there is so much wrong with this diary, but "retarded"??? That is just flat wrong and you should know better!

by power of truth on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:17:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It was politicsmatters, NOT (none / 0)

Texasdarlin.


by splashy on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 04:26:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Audience Reacted To It (2.00 / 4)

Politicsmatters:

Certainly no one can know what was in Narcissus' juvenile thoughts when his middle finger extended to scratch that itch at the very moment that he made the comment "Hillary Clinton was in her element."

But the audience seemed quite willing to presume his middle finger was part of a deliberate gesture. Their response is clear--they were reacting to the gesture.

And, whatever you may think about retarded people, I suspect even low-functioning people would get the picture after the middle finger, the JayZ brush-off and the shaking the dog poop off his shoe gesture.

So, you may not be retarded; just obtuse.

Barack Obama responded like every narcissist. When criticized, they respond with aggression. This was passive-aggressive behavior by definition.


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Harry S Truman
by Tennessean on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 10:44:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Audience Reacted To It (1.75 / 8)

Ah... college psych courses rear their heads on the board yet again... diagnosing Obama as a narcissist?  

I want a second (unbiased) opinion....


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 10:46:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Audience Reacted To It (2.00 / 5)

Well, I do have a few college courses in psychology; because I have post-graduate degrees in counseling and human development, with undergraduate degrees in Social Work--with more than a decade working as a professional in diagnosing and counseling in community mental health. I have worked for psychiatrists in emergency evaluations for commitment under the Baker Act, and worked in in-patient treatment as well. So, yeah, get your second opinion, by all means, but I think you'd find pretty much the same assessment of Barack Obama anywhere you go. He fits the DSM criteria quite neatly. Of course, it's just an opinion, but I've got the education and experience to back up that opinion.

What about you?


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Harry S Truman
by Tennessean on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 10:59:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Audience Reacted To It (2.00 / 8)

Then you should know better than to diagnose someone you have never examined.  


Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius
by Blue Neponset on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 11:01:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Please Point Out My Diagnosis... (1.42 / 7)

Are you honestly trying to argue that saying his behavior is passive-agreesive is a diagnosis? That assertion alone proves you don't have the faintest idea what you're talking about. Moreover, I made it clear that it wasn't a diagnosis, but an "opinion" using that very word.

I shouldn't even need to make the point, but clearly when one is responding to a 2nd grader, one must define things in their limited view. So, here it is for you, in terms you can comprehend: That is not a diagnosis.


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Harry S Truman
by Tennessean on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 11:56:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Please Point Out My Diagnosis... (2.00 / 5)

No, it isn't, but saying saying that Obama's passive aggressive behavior is typical of a narcissist as per the DSM sounds like a diagnosis to me.

Also, this is a HUGE pet peeve of mine.  Mental illness is medical condition and it shouldn't be reduced to a throwaway comment on a political blog. It is bad enough if a layperson does it.  When a trained professional does it then that really pisses me off.  You should know better.  


Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius
by Blue Neponset on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 12:05:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Please Point Out My Diagnosis... (2.00 / 0)

Clearly, judging by your well thought out reply, you are not a 2nd grader either....


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 12:13:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

They can't dispute the substance of the argument.. (1.00 / 5)

so they attack the arguer..

Typical N behavior, AS WELL..

Birds of a feather flock together?


Universal healthcare IS a core Democratic value
Comprehensively cover 100%, not only the healthiest 80%
by architek on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 12:53:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: They can't dispute the substance of the argume (none / 0)

uprated, not because it's a helpful comment, but because I'm pretty sure the N is for narcissist, not what others were thinking. Please tell me I'm not wrong on this.


by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 04:39:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sanctimony Doesn't Help Your Argument (2.00 / 2)

Trained professionals assess pathologies every day, including trained mental health professionals.

http://hnn.us/articles/7106.html

It was clearly not a diagnosis, and your sanctimonious attitude only makes your argument weaker, since you clearly don't know what constitutes a diagnosis in the first place.

And...

Leaving aside your fake sanctimony and obviously cynical momentary and convenient compassion for the mentally ill, I'd have to say that someone who has spent decades helping people with mental illness, I'd have more of a right than you would to determine whether or not it is fair to judge Obama's behavior as passive-agressive or narcissistic.


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Harry S Truman
by Tennessean on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 12:14:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sanctimony Doesn't Help Your Argument (2.00 / 1)

Yeah right!  Referring to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders or DSM to drive home your point about passive agressive behavior in narcissists is clearly just a passing thought that any layman could make.  

Leaving aside your fake sanctimony and obviously cynical momentary and convenient compassion for the mentally ill, I'd have to say that someone who has spent decades helping people with mental illness, I'd have more of a right than you would to determine whether or not it is fair to judge Obama's behavior as passive-agressive or narcissistic.

What diagnosis would you give to your hostility toward me?  I judged your actions and you are judging me by calling me a fake and stating that my concern for the mentally ill is disingenuous.  What kind of personality disorder can't respond well to criticism Dr. Phil?


Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius
by Blue Neponset on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 12:27:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Never love anything that CAN'T love you back... (2.00 / 2)

How to recognize a narcissist

http://www.halcyon.com/jmashmun/npd/howt o.html


Universal healthcare IS a core Democratic value
Comprehensively cover 100%, not only the healthiest 80%
by architek on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 12:57:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Never love anything that CAN'T love you back.. (2.00 / 1)

How to recognize a [expletive deleted]

http://www.mydd.com/comments/2008/4/18/1 02120/357/155#155


Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius
by Blue Neponset on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:01:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Please Point Out My Diagnosis... (none / 0)

Well, if it's "just an opinion" then your credentials don't really matter. Everyone has an opinion.

Reminds me of a famous quote:

Opinions are just like assholes. Everybody's got one...

by power of truth on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:22:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Audience Reacted To It (2.00 / 1)

I still want a second unbiased opinion...

And diagnosing someone without direct contact and observation is probably not a good idea... unless you are Bill Frist and then it is a political move...


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 11:01:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Audience Reacted To It (2.00 / 1)

I'd be more interested in a first opinion.


by Mostly on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 11:10:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Audience Reacted To It (1.50 / 2)

There has been no 'diagnosis' fool. Clearly you don't even know what constitutes a diagnosis, or you wouldn't even make such a ridiculous argument.


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Harry S Truman
by Tennessean on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 11:58:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Audience Reacted To It (2.00 / 0)

you started the ridiculous argument, I just replied...

So it is your opinion that Obama is a narcissist, but that is not a diagnosis....  even though by one of your previous replies you stated that you have the professional acumen to make such a diagnosis...  I disagree with your opinion then...


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 12:16:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Audience Reacted To It (2.00 / 2)

I didn't start an 'argument,' at all. I merely asserted an opinion about Barack Obama's behavior. You are continuing to make all sorts of ridiculous arguments about my opinion, i.e, arguing. I am simply responding by pointing out to you, in turn, each flawed argument you are making.

You're being childish, first trying to assert that it was a diagnosis, then trying to say that it's unprofessional, then this, then that...

The point I have made all along is that

1) I clearly did not make a diagnosis.

2) Professionals in mental health can--and do--make assessments about pathological behavior all the time in their capacity as professionals who have the education and experience to judge behavior.

3) You are confusing an opinion with a diagnosis and seeking to smear my professionalism, when you don't have the faintest idea what you're talking about--which undercuts your own opinion quite clearly in the first place.

4) If you want to disagree that Obama is a narcissist or exhibited classic 'passive-aggressive' behavior, you are free to do so.


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Harry S Truman
by Tennessean on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 12:33:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hey, nobody was trying to make a 'diagnosis' (none / 0)

I think we were just speculating that it would explain a lot.

For laypeople to make any kind of diagnosis would be illegal.


Universal healthcare IS a core Democratic value
Comprehensively cover 100%, not only the healthiest 80%
by architek on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:06:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey, nobody was trying to make a 'diagnosis' (none / 0)

Well, perhaps we ought not "speculate"... similar to something that I have pointed out to people when they accuse either or both of the Clintons of being sociopaths....


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:26:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Audience Reacted To It (none / 0)

So far in this thread you've referred to another poster as a second-grader, as a fool, and suggested that one should seek professional help.

Who's being childish?


by yedi on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:57:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Audience Reacted To It (none / 0)

this really is a worthless thread, isn't it?


by SeanF on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 05:08:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Audience Reacted To It (none / 0)

Probably a sad case of FPD... Flamer Personality Disorder...  but that's just my opinion and in no way a diagnosis....


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 06:27:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Taking a cue from Bill Frist, eh? (2.00 / 2)


You haven't seen impatient until you've seen a monkey waiting for a donut.
by bjones on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 11:10:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Bush on the Couch" (2.00 / 1)

Honestly, you are embarrassing yourself. I've made no diagnosis whatsoever. There is clearly no diagnosis in my comment; moreover, I made it clear that it was an 'opinion.'

Of course, if I did make a diagnosis, without having seen the person, it is quite possible to do so, and has been done many times in the past.
One doesn't need to be in the same room with someone to actually make a clear and convincing case for a particular diagnosis.

Ever read "Bush on the Couch?" by psychiatrist Justin Frank?

Sort of makes your pitiable little arguments look a little deluded in light of the fact that psychiatrists write about pathologies and personalities on a regular basis, doesn't it?

http://hnn.us/articles/7106.html


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Harry S Truman
by Tennessean on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 12:06:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Your argument from authority (2.00 / 2)

is crap.

It's crap because anyone can claim to have all the necessary credentials in the world to form a valid opinion of a person's mental condition.

Let me lay it out for you.  This is a political blog, not Johns Hopkins; and as far as I'm concerned, you're just another jackass with an Internet connection and an axe to grind.


You haven't seen impatient until you've seen a monkey waiting for a donut.
by bjones on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 12:27:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Your argument from authority (2.00 / 1)

Oh, so now your argument is this:

You may be a professional, with the credentials to make a diagnosis, but this isn't a mental health site, it is a political site, so you cannot discuss a political candidate's mental health because I say so.

Well, I have to say, that this is not unexpected from you, since the evidence clearly shows that if you had two brains, you'd still be a half-wit.

My opinion about Barack Obama's behavior being classic passive aggressive behavior remains. You can't rebut it, obviously, so why don't you just move on and talk about something you know something about, so as to not humiliate yourself further.


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Harry S Truman
by Tennessean on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 12:37:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Your argument from authority (2.00 / 1)

Fine.  Here's your rebuttal.

Make all the diagnoses opinions you want.  I just think you're full of shit.


You haven't seen impatient until you've seen a monkey waiting for a donut.
by bjones on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 12:41:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

This looks interesting also (1.00 / 0)

"Narcissistic and Psychopathic Leaders"

http://samvak.tripod.com/15.html

"(The leader's) intellectual acts are strong and independent even in isolation and his will need no reinforcement from others ... (He) loves no one but himself, or other people only insofar as they serve his needs."

This guy, 'samvak' is a guy who was diagnosed as narcissistic in some prison situation and now he seems to be trying to create a cottage industry around his narcissistic books on narcissists!

:o

Not the best source of unbiased information, but they are interesting for providing an admitted (rare as they are!) narcissists point of view on narcissism.


Universal healthcare IS a core Democratic value
Comprehensively cover 100%, not only the healthiest 80%
by architek on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:12:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Audience Reacted To It (2.00 / 2)

Maybe it's more something for a dermatologist to consider than a psychologist?


Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove.
by fogiv on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 11:50:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Audience Reacted To It (2.00 / 1)

Clever.  I lol'd


You haven't seen impatient until you've seen a monkey waiting for a donut.
by bjones on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 11:54:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Audience Reacted To It (none / 0)

Yeah, sure you do.
This has got to be the all time stupidest diary I have ever read on any blog! Is this how desperate Hillary supporters have become, that they want to discuss if Obama did or did not give someone the finger?  But then again I shouldn't be shocked coming from this diarist and her true feeling about Obama. One only has to look at the discusting things posted on her blog.
"In the primary you should vote with your heart, but in the general, you should vote with your head" Hillary's husband
by venician on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:20:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Audience Reacted To It (2.00 / 0)

No, the audience reacted to his speech, where he said "Senator Clinton looked in her element" or something to that effect.


No way. No how. No McCain.
by freedom78 on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 11:48:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

From Obama campaign directly (2.00 / 1)

With just enough plausible deniability.


by catfish1 on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 03:14:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: From Obama campaign directly (none / 0)

And to think, the Clintons suggested this awful, awful man as a VP candidate.Did you see him at :30 in this video?   He looks like he made a gesture resembling someone holding a gun.  Barack makes Pol Pot look like Mr. Rogers.  Clearly, I can't vote for him, and I also couldn't vote for anyone who would consider for a second naming him as vice president.  
Alan Keyes 08!

by yhf1979 on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 04:46:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Grown-ups only for President, please! (2.00 / 10)

Oh my god.

You can't be serious.


by Mostly on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 10:28:26 AM EST

Re: Grown-ups only for President, please! (1.75 / 4)

I think TD is serious....  although, personally, I do not think Obama was flipping the entire electorate off, just the Clinton supporters...  /snark.


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 10:34:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Grown-ups only for President, please! (2.00 / 7)

I think he's flipping off Jesus and the flag.


by Mostly on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 10:41:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Grown-ups only for President, please! (2.00 / 2)

I think he is flipping off the person who troll-rated my comment...

It's my world, I just let all of you live in it...

SNARK!


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 10:56:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Grown-ups only for President, please! (2.00 / 1)

The person who troll-rated your comment is a McCain supporter.  >shock<


by Mostly on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 11:11:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Grown-ups only for President, please! (2.00 / 1)

Wow... that is shocking... Republicans NEVER disagree with me...  oh wait, that should read, Republicans ALWAYS disagree with me...


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 11:29:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Grown-ups only for President, please! (2.00 / 3)

He's clearly flipping off Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter.  Also, in Obama's super-racist church, that gesture is a secret high-five to Louis Farrakhan and the Weathermen.


by rfahey22 on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 11:14:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Grown-ups only for President, please! (2.00 / 1)

And Hamas.

Actually, he's practicing what it's going to be like when his finger is poised over the "nuke Israel" button.

All of which is classic narcissistic behavior.  I read it in the DSM IV.


by Mostly on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:15:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Grown-ups only for President, please! (2.00 / 2)

He's actually flipping off the troops because he wants them to lose in Iraq.

Also, he has a little button hidden in his cheek that activates the Black Pantherbot 3000 and sets it on its mission to get whitey.


Stop the racism. Fight the smears.
by CrazyDrumGuy on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 12:30:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Grown-ups only for President, please! (2.00 / 5)

Come on now, look at the clip.  His face is itching and he scratches it regularly.  Do you really think he was scratching his face the entire time in order to set up some sort of weird motion that is only going to be noticed if you freeze frame a still?


Beat McCain!
by thezzyzx on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 10:28:59 AM EST

I never do any scratching with MY middle finger.. (2.00 / 1)

Do you?

the gesture HAD to be intentional..


Universal healthcare IS a core Democratic value
Comprehensively cover 100%, not only the healthiest 80%
by architek on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:14:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I never do any scratching with MY middle finge (none / 0)

Because you say so...?


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:28:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I never do any scratching with (none / 0)

Um, no it didn't.


www.thingsyoungerthanmccain.com
by LandStander on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:05:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I do. (none / 0)

So I guess that clears that up.

Sometimes, when my focus is elsewhere - say, like speaking to a group of people - I've found myself doing things I didn't even realize, e.g. scratching my head, twirling a pen, playing with my keys. Guess what? None of that meant anything other than that I was a little fidgety at the time.

I would imagine that being on the campaign trail for 15+ months, one might let certain aspects of their presentation go on autodrive. But that's just my semi-rational take on things.


by bookish on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:41:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

This is what you guys are left with? (none / 0)

Obama scratches his face and you think he is giving Hillary the finger. How precious. Has any campaign or its supporters ever been as desperate as the Clinton 2008? I think not.

Keep up with the attacks. Obama brushes them off and rolls on. Latest Newsweek poll shows him up by 19 nationally on Clinton. The sand is running out of the hourglass.


by johnnyappleseed on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 05:35:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

That's not even the worst one! (1.66 / 6)

This picture just surfaced, too! Take it and run with it, Tex!


Hooray for John McCain!
by ragekage on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 10:32:03 AM EST

Re: That's not even the worst one! (none / 0)

LOL!!!!! Amazing


by Democratic Unity on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:57:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Grown-ups only for President, please! REALLY! (2.00 / 2)

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/YVynnbx1Xsc&hl=en"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/YVynnbx1Xsc&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>


Universal healthcare IS a core Democratic value
Comprehensively cover 100%, not only the healthiest 80%
by architek on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 10:32:17 AM EST

Re: Grown-ups only for President, please! (2.00 / 4)

What I love about the clip is the reference.  No one over 35 is going to get what I'm talking about, which is good, but there's a reason the younger people in the crowd erupted.


by Mostly on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 10:32:34 AM EST

Re: Grown-ups only for President, please! (none / 0)

Yeah, they were responding to the speech.

You should take a look at the book "CNN's Tailwind Tale: Inside Vietnam's Last Great Myth"  While the subject is Vietnam, it also about why people believe what they believe - from a Amazon review

What Lembcke provides is the cultural atmospherics that make some people believe anything that supports their predispositions. Most alert people already know this, but rarely do we see such outrageous claims go unchallenged by pros.

You don't like Obama, find him and his supporters naive, childish and arrogant, so you believe that he is giving the finger and the crowd reacting.  

Instead of looking for that, take a look at the longer clip and ignore the gesture.  Listen to the speech, the crowd reacted because of the words being said.


by labor nrrd on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 10:56:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Grown-ups only for President, please! (none / 0)

You misunderstand completely.


by Mostly on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 11:12:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Grown-ups only for President, please! (none / 0)

I apologize, then.


by labor nrrd on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 11:33:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Grown-ups only for President, please! (none / 0)

It's quite alright.


by Mostly on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:17:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Grown-ups only for President, please! (2.00 / 1)

Jay-Z!


by DPW on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 10:57:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Grown-ups only for President, please! (none / 0)

Shhhhh!


by Mostly on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 11:11:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Grown-ups only for President, please! (2.00 / 1)

Please share the joke with the rest of the class, otherwise you are dooming me to hours on google trying to work it out.


by interestedbystander on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 11:42:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Grown-ups only for President, please! (2.00 / 1)

http://matthewyglesias.theatlantic.com/a rchives/2008/04/dirt_off_your_shoulder.p hp


by DPW on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 12:11:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Grown-ups only for President, please! (2.00 / 1)

Thanks DPW, I'm one of the kewl kidz now.


by interestedbystander on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 12:24:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Grown-ups only for President, please! (none / 0)

No problem. For what it's worth, I don't think it was really a Jay-Z reference. The gesture of brushing dirt off your shoulder was around well before that track, but I think it resonated more with younger folks familiar with this contemporary pop cultural example.


by DPW on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 12:29:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Grown-ups only for President, please! (none / 0)

Well, you may not think so, but the crowd didn't just go wild over some bygone colloquialism.


by bookish on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:44:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Scarbough ... (2.00 / 2)

..was in full outrage mode over the "brush shoulder" gesture this morning. He had no idea what it meant but was still trying to spin it negative. He landed on the idea that it was a 'elitist' gesture. LOL!

By the end of the show email came in that set him straight. The emailer joked that  "if you were any whiter you would be clear". Truer words were never spoken.

 


by JoeCoaster on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 11:50:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Scarbough ... (2.00 / 0)

I actually emailed Morning Joe this morning (the first time I've ever emailed any show), but it was in relation to Joe's concern trolling about Obama delivering his weakest debate performance in the 21st debate ("oh noes, should the supers be concerned about the fact that he still can't perform after 21 debates?!!!?"). By all accounts, Obama's debate performances have continued to improve, and Chuck Todd emphasized this repeatedly following the CA, TX and OH debates. He had one bad day. It happens. Actually, I didn't even think he was all that bad--just a little flat.

I like Joe okay, but he tends to adopt whatever  "wisdom" prevails in that morning's editorials, even if he should know better.


by DPW on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 12:10:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Scarbough ... (2.00 / 1)

See that kind of sucks because now everyone is going to know it's a Jay-Z reference, and we get into "is he too black" territory again.

As long as young people are the only ones that get it, it's fine.


by Mostly on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 12:32:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Scarbough ... (2.00 / 1)

It was great seeing Rachel Maddow getting him so mad that he walked off the set of "The Road to the White House".....I love her


A useless "Community Organizer" from Pennsylvania as noted by Republicans, Rudy Giuliani and Sarah Palin
by hootie4170 on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 12:51:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Grown-ups only for President, please! (none / 0)

The video link below shows the truth. He used two fingers. But don't let the truth stop your bullshit.


by kitebro on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 03:39:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Grown-ups only for President, please! (none / 0)

Actually, I'm 55 and I know it's a flip off. That's the way you do it when you are trying to hide it from "straight" people, or your BOSS who could fire you.

Doing that has been around for many decades now in the counterculture.


by splashy on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 04:41:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Grown-ups only for President, please! (none / 0)

Heh.

See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWLHQ3S-O q8


by vann on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 07:19:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Grown-ups only for President, please! (2.00 / 5)

We're seriously grasping at straws here, aren't we?


by chewie5656 on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 10:32:47 AM EST

Re: Grown-ups only for President, please! (2.00 / 1)

Tiny, invisible straws that don't exist.


www.thingsyoungerthanmccain.com
by LandStander on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:06:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Grown-ups only for President, please! (2.00 / 18)

Please watch this side-on view video of the same event.  The relevant bit is at 20:50:

http://www.ustream.tv/swf/3/viewer.111.s wf?&loc=/&vid=355941

No "bird" in sight, just a plainly visible two finger cheek scratch.

Some screen caps:

In the future please try not to assume the worst of our Democratic Presidential Candidates.


by moreperfectunion on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 10:33:33 AM EST

Re: Grown-ups only for President, please! (2.00 / 1)

the fact we are wasting time on this.

but like I said this needs to be pushed, once the supes see MSM talking about stuff like this?

yeah they will end the primaries once and for all


Obama said, as Bill beamed. "Thank you, President Clinton."
by TruthMatters on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 10:35:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

If he didn't actually flash the finger.. (2.00 / 2)

we should all drop it.. seriously..


Universal healthcare IS a core Democratic value
Comprehensively cover 100%, not only the healthiest 80%
by architek on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:17:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Grown-ups only for President, please! (1.83 / 6)

The diarist is not trying to assume the worst of our Democratic Presidential candidates...  just trying to smear Obama by any means necessary....


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 10:36:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Grown-ups only for President, please! (none / 0)

The flip of the bird is debatable and for the most part, a non-issue.

That being said, the clips you provided are a different viewpoint BUT none come even close to resembling the original image presented in the diary. Tell me, which side view pic goes with the direct view pic?


by soyousay on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 10:44:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Grown-ups only for President, please! (2.00 / 2)

Just watch the video I linked to and skip to the time I suggested.  You can then see the entire cheek scratch for yourself.


by moreperfectunion on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 11:00:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Grown-ups only for President, please! (2.00 / 1)

It really isn't debatable... but more importantly, I don't see why Clinton supporters are pushing it.  Going after Obama over Wright and "bitter" thing (I am sick of gates) didn't work that well.  And at least there was something there, this is just insane.  

I am an Obama supporter, sure, but I agree with the poster (don't remember who) arguing that they are both centrists with strengths and weaknesses.  I admit that there areas where Clinton is stronger than Obama (i.e. healtcare). Clinton goes down when she focuses on these type of dumb attacks on Obama and does better when she focuses on her own strengths.

If you want to waste your time on trying to


by labor nrrd on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 11:02:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

This is what makes the rec list. (none / 0)

And I'm happy. Any rational undecided that comes to this site and sees this inanity would turn tail and head to a more reasonable place to help them make up their mind. Keep up the good work.


by bookish on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:50:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Grown-ups only for President, please! (2.00 / 1)

Aw. You spoiled the childish fun for the diarist who wants a grown up to be president. What a crock this diary is.


by kitebro on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 03:37:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Grown-ups only for President, please! (1.75 / 8)

So it went from extracting one word from Obama's speeches and turning them into Clinton campaign talking points.

Now you're going to focus on the itch on his cheek?

Nice job on reaching the newest low.


by Mardarkin on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 10:34:59 AM EST

Frontrunner (none / 0)

Consolaton is you have to be the frontrunner in a big way to get this kind of scrutiny.  


by mady on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 05:51:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Grown-ups only for President, please! (2.00 / 1)

i didnt see it until just now, im speechless.


"Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum
by canadian gal on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 10:36:31 AM EST

Re: Grown-ups only for President, please! (2.00 / 0)

That'll be a relief.


by interestedbystander on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 11:44:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Grown-ups only for President, please! (none / 0)

Snap!


Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove.
by fogiv on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 11:54:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Hey TD, where have you been recently? (none / 0)


If you follow history with a long enough arc, things always get better, and the truth always prevails...Gandhi
by SevenStrings on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 10:37:03 AM EST

Re: Grown-ups only for President, please! (2.00 / 6)

Ok, I slept on the story last night.   And I found my conclusion.

I'm making this comment from a point of view of someone who is living in a foreign country.

Granted that Obama's finger was unintentional, it will create a nuke bomb if he did this while making speech "in the same context" referring to a foreign leader.

Imagine he's making speech referring to Sarkozy the French Prime Minister, Merkel the German Chancellor, or Hu Jintao the Chinese President, and scratch his face with his middle finger. There will be an uproar in those countries, and they won't take excuse from Obama supporters swamping the blog.

His conduct is unpresidential. He is not ready for prime time. DNC backs a wrong horse. And it turns out to be a huge embarrassment.


by JoeySky18 on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 10:39:42 AM EST

Re: Grown-ups only for President, please! (1.50 / 4)

Don't speak for Europe.

Nobody gives a crap about somebody itching their face.  Nobody except this diarist.


by Mardarkin on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 10:42:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Grown-ups only for President, please! (2.00 / 1)

Sweet Lord you cannot be serious....

I have seen a lot of manufactured outrage on this board in the past month or so, but this sets a brand new standard....


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 10:43:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Grown-ups only for President, please! (2.00 / 1)

Next he'll be scratching his balls in public.  Yikes!


by Becky G on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 11:36:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Grown-ups only for President, please! (2.00 / 1)

Well said, Joey.

Although I believe his gesture was conscious and intentional.

(Great diary, TexasDarlin.)


by susanhu on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:18:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Wow, this is what you have become? (none / 0)

Sad.


"I hope the two wings of the Democratic Party may flap together." - William Jennings Bryan
by pinche tejano on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:52:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama won (none / 0)

Get over it. Or support McCain. Whatever

Every diary like this is an epitaph for a Clinton supporter. They will have no home in a couple weeks.


by johnnyappleseed on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 05:45:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You have got to be kidding. (2.00 / 4)

No wonder people are disenchanted with politics if this kind of specious nonsense is considered important.


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 10:43:24 AM EST