UPDATED: Hey Barry - Didja Fire Goolsbee Yet?

So I hear you've gone and mailed out another pack of lies about Hillary's trade record and NAFTA.

Huffington Post

[T]he mailer cites a Newsday article from September 2006 concerning Clinton's perceived support for NAFTA. Aspects of that article, however, were retracted because it included the since-discredited line that the Senator said the trade agreement was a "boon." The Obama mailer didn't include the "boon" quote, but even Newsday offered that the use of their piece in a political context could be misleading.

In addition, the mailer criticizes Clinton for supporting permanent normal trade relations with China, citing a 2000 quote she made to CNN: "But on balance, I've looked at this, I've studied it. I think it is in the interests of America and American workers that we provide the option for China to go into the WTO."

Obama, however, has a similar quote from the Illinois Farm Bureau, albeit one with greater caveats and stipulations. "So I think it is important for us to negotiate our trade agreements recognizing that the global economy has shifted," he said in September 2004. "What that means then is that when the Chinese government devalues its currency by 40%, we've got to make sure that we bring China before the WTO. The same way that we get brought before the WTO if other countries think that a disadvantage, that they are being disadvantaged by our existing trade policies."


(Entire mailer at the above HuffPo link)

I guess I shouldn't be surprised - this isn't the first time you've lied in some sad, last-ditch effort to con voters at Hillary's (and our nation's) expense.  I may not be surprised, but that doesn't mean I'm going to remain silent when it comes to your Chicago, smack-down, smoky-back-room, old-style, dirty brand of politics-as-usual.

You were set straight on this the last time you pulled this stunt in Ohio so the fact that you're doing it all over again just ads insult to injury.  How stupid to you think voters are anyway?

Obama Campaign Distributes Two Dishonest Mailers In Ohio
2/23/2008 2:32:40 PM

The Obama campaign is distributing two dishonest mailers in Ohio. The first mailer falsely claims that Hillary said NAFTA was a "boon" to the economy. Hillary never said that. The Obama campaign is basing the quote on a 2006 Newsday article that characterized her views this way without any substantiation. In fact, Newsday recently said that the Obama campaign's use of their article was "misleading." The Politico called the Obama campaign's use of the quote "bogus."

The second mailer from the Obama campaign mimics Harry and Louise ads that the health care industry used to scare people into opposing universal health care. The ad claims "Hillary's health care plan forces everyone to buy insurance, even if you can't afford it."

Here are the facts:

Sen. Obama fails to mention Hillary's plan cuts costs just as aggressively as Sen. Obama, if not more so.

Hillary's plan contains more generous subsidies than the Obama plan. Noted health expert Ken Thorpe of Emory University concluded that under the Hillary plan, everyone will be able to afford coverage.

The Obama plan leaves 15 million people out, which drives up costs because everyone else ends up subsidizing their emergency care.

Paul Krugman called the mailer "ugly" and "destructive."

In answer to your latest round of attacks using previously discredited claims, Hillary's campaign has put out the following information on Fact Hub...

Obama Campaign Releases Another Negative, Misleading Trade Mailer

Today, Sen. Obama's campaign is circulating another false NAFTA mailer in Pennsylvania.

The Obama campaign continues to use a widely discredited citation to attack Hillary Clinton. Huffington Post explains "the mailer cites a Newsday article from September 2006 concerning Clinton's perceived support for NAFTA. Aspects of that article, however, were retracted because it included the since-discredited line that the Senator said the trade agreement was a 'boon.'" Sen. Obama admitted in February that the source is not accurate:

"It was pointed out that even Newsday disputed his campaign's use of `boon' in quotes. Obama said `that's fair enough' but `the mailer went out before the newspaper made the correction, right? That's my understanding and I will need to check with staff on that.'" [ABC, Political Punch, 2/23/08]

Sen. Obama's new mailer also falsely claims that Hillary supported NAFTA "up until last year." This is false - Hillary publicly said NAFTA was flawed as early as 2000:

"What happened to NAFTA I think was we inherited an agreement that we didn't get everything we should have got out of it in my opinion. I think the NAFTA agreement was flawed."

Sen. Obama's mailer also criticizes Hillary for supporting trade relations with China as a way to enforce fair trade practices, an argument Sen. Obama himself has made.

I'm callin' bullshit Barry - it's time for you to own up to your lies and level with the good people of Pennsylvania.

Oh and by the way...

Have you fired Nathan Goolsbee yet for the way he went behind everyone's back and told the Canadians that your tough talk on NAFTA was just more bullshit?  That you didn't mean what you were saying on the campaign trail?

Because until you own up to what your top economic advisor said, fire his ass and level with the American people when it comes to your own stand on trade, you've no right to go after Hillary on this (or any other) issue.  An apology for that string of evasive and in some cases - dishonest explanations of what happened between Goolsbee and the Canadians would be nice too.  

Sen. Obama Offers 5th Explanation of NAFTA-Gate
3/10/2008 3:48:24 PM

After days of misleading denials, Sen. Obama has finally acknowledged that a meeting took place between his senior economic advisor and Canadian officials regarding NAFTA. But Sen. Obama now claims that the detailed memo obtained by the AP describing the meeting - and Goolsbee's downplaying of Obama's anti-NAFTA rhetoric - is inaccurate. This is at least the fifth different explanation offered by Sen. Obama and his campaign.

5. 3/10/08 - Sen. Obama: The meeting did happen, they did discuss NAFTA, but advisor just said Obama wanted to make NAFTA 'stronger for U.S. workers.' "So here's what happens. You've got one of my economic advisors goes and visits a Canadian embassy and they're asking him questions and he says, 'Well, Senator Obama isn't planning to repeal NAFTA, but he wants to amend it to make it stronger for U.S. workers.' The Canadian embassy writes it up as, 'Well, maybe Obama is not as tough on NAFTA as you might think.' And the Clintons start waving this and saying, 'See? Actually, he's the one.'" [Mississippi Rally, 3/10/08]

4. 2/29/08: Sen. Obama: 'It did not happen.' Anchor: "So, completely inaccurate, did not happen, end of discussion." Sen. Obama: "It did not happen." [WKYC TV, 2/29/08]

3. 2/28/08 - Rice: 'There had been no contact.' "The Canadian ambassador issued a statement that was absolutely false. There had been no contact. There had been no discussions on NAFTA. So we take the Canadians at their word...period. " [MSNBC, Susan Rice, 2/28/08]

2. 2/27/08 - Obama advisor just said 'hello.' "Goolsbee: Canada's consul general in Chicago contacted him `at one point to say `hello' because their office is around the corner." [ABC, 2/29/08]

1. 2/27/08 - 'No conversations have taken place' with the Canadian government on NAFTA. "Earlier Thursday, the Obama campaign insisted that no conversations have taken place with any of its senior ranks and representatives of the Canadian government on the NAFTA issue." [CTV, 2/29/08]

Seriously Barry... I wouldn't talk about trade with voters as long as Goolsbee's still on your team.  It only reminds us of what he told the Canadians - that your words on the campaign trail aren't to be taken seriously and that you're basically lying to the voters when you talk about NAFTA and trade.  If you want to prove to us that you're not full of you know what, you need to fire Goolsbee and do it now.  Otherwise, anything you say on this topic is just more empty words and rhetoric.

This pack of BS is a carbon copy of something he sent out in Ohio in February - one that was widely discredited and where he himself has admitted that parts of it are not true.  

Look guys, this latest assault on the truth is just more evidence that Sen. Obama's getting desperate in Pennsylvania.  He spent over $3 million last week and a whopping, record-shattering $3.4 million this week to try to knock Hillary out of this race.  And now this.

Think about what he's said and done over the past couple weeks.  He and his surrogates have gone on the offensive and tried to force Hillary out of this race before the big day on the 22nd.  They're determined to keep millions of voters from being heard in the last 10 states because they know a win in PA will give her the momentum she needs to close the gap.  And if she does that she just might convince enough Supers to throw in with her thereby winning the nomination of our party this summer.

I've been wondering about this for a while now - why force her out now when there's so little daylight between them, and before millions of voters have had their say?  

What's the hurry?

Then I watched last night's debate and it all started to come together for me.  Obama went on national television - in front of 10 million viewers - and for the first time in 14 months he was put on the spot regarding some tough questions.  Without a prepared speech and no expectation that the press would be as hard on him as they have been with Hillary throughout this entire campaign, he flubbed one question after another.

He's afraid if he doesn't knock her out now people will realize what a flawed candidate he is and his base of support will start to erode.  He's worried people will finally understand that he won't be able to handle what the goopers throw at him, and once they open their eyes to that factoid the jig's up.  The supers will flock to Hillary's side.

If you think Gibson and Steph were tough on him last night, honey you ain't seen NOTHIN' yet.  They were just the warm-up act boys and girls.  That was a minor sunburn compared to the scorching heat he's going to get from the RNC and the 527s out there.

UPDATE

Ya know I wasn't going to include this tonight - I've been beating the fundraising drum pretty hard over the past 2 days but this latest stunt of Obama's has - PISSED - ME - OFF! So yeah - I'm going to ask you guys to pony up if you're as pissed as I am over this pack of lies.

He pulled this in Ohio guys - just a few days before the primary leaving too little time for Hillary to set the record straight. Or so he thought. He not only pulls out the same discredited mailer but he uses the same timing. Only this time the people of Pennsylvania - who live just one state away from Ohio and have been hit by hard times just like their neighbors - know better. They listened and watched as this story unfolded in Ohio and saw the results as well (double digit win for Hillary there).

So let him know this stunt won't work - at least here on line gang.

Send Hillary some love so she can buy ad time to set the record straight between now and next Tuesday!

HELP HILLARY TO VICTORY IN PA - CONTRIBUTE NOW!

Thanks!



Display:


Re: Hey Barry - Didja Fire Goolsbee Yet? (2.00 / 16)

He knows - even admitted that the stuff in that mailer is wrong.


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 09:24:32 PM EST

Re: Hey Barry - Didja Fire Goolsbee Yet? (2.00 / 11)

This is NOT a new way of doing politics.  Just more of the same.


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 09:25:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey Barry - Didja Fire Goolsbee Yet? (1.00 / 4)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exsmFDYyK 4U


NO 100 year WAR, NO McConnell run Senate, & NO GOP-led Supreme Court!!!
by Veteran75 on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 09:28:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey Barry - Didja Fire Goolsbee Yet? (2.00 / 8)

Yeah - I'm pissed.  Really pissed at this latest stunt.  How in the hell could he send around something that he himself has admitted wasn't true back in Ohio?

Seriously - if he wants to talk about a new way of doing politics he'd better CHANGE the way he campaigns now.  


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 09:33:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey Barry - Didja Fire Goolsbee Yet? (none / 0)


 Alegre...please be careful. I`m sure THE ONE knows where you live.
Wisdom Is The Reward For Listening Over A Lifetime
by gunner on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 09:43:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey Barry - Didja Fire Goolsbee Yet? (2.00 / 6)

Umm... EXCUSE ME?


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 09:55:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey Barry - Didja Fire Goolsbee Yet? (none / 0)


 Sorry... that was supposed to be snark.
Wisdom Is The Reward For Listening Over A Lifetime
by gunner on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 12:06:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Touche' (1.15 / 13)

In honor of Vet75:

DONATE NOW!!


by Obamanaut on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 10:19:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey Barry - Didja Fire Goolsbee Yet? (2.00 / 2)

Are we doing the NAFTA thing again? Ian Brodie, Stephen Harper's chief of staff, actually said it was Hillary's campaign who did the ol' wink-wink.

"Mr. Brodie, apparently seeking to play down the potential impact on Canada, told the reporters the threat was not serious, and that someone from Ms. Clinton's campaign had even contacted Canadian diplomats to tell them not to worry because the NAFTA threats were mostly political posturing. The Canadian Press cited an unnamed source last night as saying that several people overheard the remark.

"The news agency quoted that source as saying that Mr. Brodie said that someone from Ms. Clinton's campaign called and was `telling the embassy to take it with a grain of salt.'

Of course, the Clinton campaign denied giving any secret assurance, so the story must be false. Meanwhile, the Obama campaign denied that they gave any secret assurance, so the story must be true. Remember, the rules say that only Clinton Denials count!


by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 10:54:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey Barry - Didja Fire Goolsbee Yet? (2.00 / 1)

Funny i have never seen any proof for this claim.  It has been over a month do you have any proof this happened.  The HRC has denied this???

Has Mr Brodie said who did the wink wink???

This is a class false BO smear.  I ask just one simply question.  Provide some evidence for this or admit this is a lie.

david


by giusd on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 11:52:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey Barry - Didja Fire Goolsbee Yet? (2.00 / 1)

Since there are conflicting stories, shouldn't both sides be required to present "proof", or just the side you disagree with?


4 years of McCain = 4 more years of Bush.
by ashriver on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 12:31:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey Barry - Didja Fire Goolsbee Yet? (2.00 / 1)

No,

The one pushing a claim has the burden to prove it, period. It is wrong to suggest that HRC has to disprove any smear put foward by her detractors.  Thiis logical is weak.

If you have proof of you claim put it foward or back off it.  

david


by giusd on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 12:43:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey Barry - Didja Fire Goolsbee Yet? (2.00 / 1)

Alegre put forward the claim that it was Goolsbee who told the Canadians that Obama didn't really care about NAFTA.  This claim is controversial; therefore she needs to provide proof just as much as anyone else.


4 years of McCain = 4 more years of Bush.
by ashriver on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:03:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey Barry - Didja Fire Goolsbee Yet? (2.00 / 1)

Since you asked for it:

http://www.nytimes.com/images/promos/pol itics/blog/20070303canmemo.pdf

There it is.


Fortune strums a mournful tune for those whose campaigns peak too soon. --Bored of the Rings
by Inky on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:58:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

BS (2.00 / 2)

Hillary's campaign stated that anybody who had information on Her campaign being involved in that should make all of the information PUBLIC.  At that point, those with integrity quit making that claim at all.  I guess this must leave you out since you are still trying to make that illegitimate claim.


by macmcd on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 08:50:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Except now we know it is true. (2.00 / 1)

In Ohio we didn't yet have the white house records confirming that she gave whole speeches promoting NAFTA.


Your old role is rapidly aging. Please get out of the new one if you can't lend a hand, for the times they are a changing.
by Travis Stark on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 08:22:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Maybe Barry should... (none / 0)

Laugh uncontrollably and say "How am I supposed to answer that?"

Seems to have worked for this candidate I know.


by niksder on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 09:01:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Except now we know it is true. (2.00 / 1)

Exactly. This is the height of hypocrisy. Clinton runs ads saying that Obama was two-faced about NAFTA while she knows that she herself was an active supporter during her time in the White House.

To respond to the inevitable responses:
1) The Canadian government disclaims the memo, as does Obama's campaign. This was a pretty major issue in Canada. If there was any truth to the memo, or the basic charges here, they wouldn't disclaim it. They have everything to lose and very little to gain by disclaiming the memo if it were true. So there's quite strong evidence that the meeting as originally described never happened. Was there a meeting? Of course. Was it with high-level Canadian officials? No. Did the Obama campaign request it? No. Was NAFTA the primary focus of discussion? No. Were reassurances made? No.

2) In the White House, of course Hillary Clinton couldn't publicly challenge Bill. That (should) go without saying. But that doesn't in any way excuse her in this case. This wasn't a state dinner or a reception or a party or even something substantive but of PR value such as a trip to Bosnia or China. This was a domestic policy issue. First Ladies are not required to have an opinion on domestic policy issues, not even ones as involved as Hillary Clinton. Had she simply remained quiet about NAFTA, pretty much no one would've taken it as a slam about NAFTA, and people who did would've been dismissed as tinfoil-hat-wearing wing-nuts. Her coming out to champion it can't be construed as just standing by Bill.

None of the Obama campaign's mailings, none of Obama's statements, none of it is even slightly as offensive as Clinton trying to beat Obama over the head on NAFTA when she herself has been far more two-faced. Trying to attack Obama on this issue when he's fundamentally told the truth is extremely hypocritical when you yourself have fundamentally lied.


No Way. No How. No McCain-Palin!
by Texas Gray Wolf on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 09:52:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Except now we know it is true. (none / 0)

Oh dear, Michelle's "anti-American" speeches in the general.  Entire speech was it?

The big bad Republicans will just eat that up.

This reminds me of one of the reasons we're supposedly in Iraq: We're fighting them there, so we don't have to fight them here.  The implication being that somehow terrorists who desperately want to attack America have entered into an agreement to ONLY fight in Iraq.

Similarly, the argument against Obama appears to imply that Republicans won't be nearly as nasty to Hillary Clinton.  She's fighting the Republican fight here in the primary so we'll be spared their nastiness in the general.  Except of course, the Republicans -- like the terrorists -- have entered no such agreement.


by niksder on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 11:42:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

even if (2.00 / 2)

what you are saying is spot on, whats my alternative?

A candidate who was pro nafta during her husbands admin and is "against" it now?


-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 09:28:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Oh dear... (1.85 / 7)

You didn't read the diary or follow the links - did you?


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 09:34:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

crap (1.28 / 7)

Cut the "oh dear" garbage.  You don't answer real questions, but instead throw around patronizing nonsense.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 09:52:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

,,, as in oh my goodness (2.00 / 5)

Chill.

It's clear you didn't read what I posted, or you'd have known that she DIDN'T support NAFTA.  The links etc in the diary prove that out.

Yet (like your candidate) you've chosen to repeat those lies.


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 10:24:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ,,, as in oh my goodness (2.00 / 3)

I am not an idiot. I've read lots about this and there's no doubt that she actively supported NAFTA. She worked to pass it in closed door meetings.  It really doesn't matter if she told Bill that it was a lower priority than health care. In fact, she went out and worked to get it passed. And then she praised it afterwards.

Get out of her pr bubble and read some hard news.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 10:40:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

LOL (2.00 / 0)

What do you base the claim "I am not an idiot" on?  From reading your comments that claim seems to be as false as the lies you all are trying to spread about Hillary.  Hmmmmmm.


by macmcd on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 08:54:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh dear... (1.57 / 7)

No because its the same old blah, blah, blah, "quote", blah, blah, Obama sucks, blah, blah, blah, link, blah, blah, Obama lies, blah, blah, blah, blah, "quote", blah, blah, Obama can't win the GE, blah, blah, blah, link, blah, blah, blah, blah, Obama sucks, "quote", blah, blah, Hillary's great, blah, blah, Hillary's the best, link, blah, blah, blah, Obama's a sexist, "quote", blah, blah, Hillary's the only one who can change things, blah, blah, "quote", blah, Obama's a fake, Clinton's the best, blah,


Toot, thank you for raising such a terrific person...You done good and we will have you in our hearts.
by hootie4170 on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 09:57:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Blah, blah, blah (1.00 / 1)

I'm so sorry not every post here is a paean to BO.  "Can't win," "sucks," "sexist" and "fake" are a heluva lot kinder than what is routinely said about Hillary.

From Tom Watson's page, linked to by Jerome yesterday:

last night on dKos, Senator Clinton was referred to as "a vile succubus," "a vile excuse for a human being," "a complete scumbag," "that monster," and multiple versions of liar, some with gender-specific modifiers - and that was just one thread.

I left dKos because of this, only to find that the name-callers there couldn't stand having the place to themselves and had decided to stalk the Clinton supporters who left, following them to other blogs.  Once again, substantive debate is becoming impossible...drowned out in a chorus of name-calling, unsubstantiated assertions and troll-ratings.

Lemme tell you something.  Obama needs Clinton supporters to think kindly of him, on the off-chance that he's the nominee.  His supporters do their candidate no favors with their rabid polemics on the internet.

You'll never convince me that Obama is a better choice for president than Hillary. Worse, you're rapidly convincing me that he is not a better choice than John McCain. So much hatred cannot possibly be good for our country.


by creeper1014 on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 10:59:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

lexluthor, (none / 0)

I wear your TR as a badge of honor.  I must say, though, that I have made far more outrageous comments than this.  Where were you?

It appears from your history that you TR anyone who says they might not vote for the Democratic candidate.  At least you're consistent, even if you're not within the TR guidelines.


by creeper1014 on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 08:12:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh dear... (none / 0)

You forgot to include "you go girl".


by RidleyGriff on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 03:07:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

your diary (1.80 / 5)

is an obama hit diary.

It does not make one want to vote for Hillary.


-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 10:00:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm Seeing A Pattern Here Guys (1.87 / 8)

Seriously - anything that challenges the annointed one is a hit diary now?

Seriously - where have I lied?  My diary's sourced nine ways to sunday  - links to scores of other information and facts.

So how is my challenging your guy on his sending out a discredited mailer - one that contains things that even HE has said is not true - a hit diary?

Or is that your answer now to anything that goes after his lies and misinformation?


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 10:27:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm Seeing A Pattern Here Guys (1.80 / 5)

Yeah - who could possible need any source but HillaryHub?


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 10:28:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm Seeing A Pattern Here Guys (2.00 / 1)

I do understand.  BO got clocked last night and BO supporters are in no mod to hear anything but what they want to hear.

HRC was pro-NAFTA because BIll was.  Very bad hRC very bad.  I see a pattern here.  BO supporters are like to dish out criticism but dont want to be on the other end.

david


by giusd on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 11:57:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm Seeing A Pattern Here Guys (2.00 / 2)

how does the debate last night relate to using HillaryHub?


4 years of McCain = 4 more years of Bush.
by ashriver on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 12:33:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm Seeing A Pattern Here Guys (2.00 / 1)

It's so much deflection from the question.

Alegre needs some serious information literacy training. Sourcing "facts" to a site whose sole purpose is to support a given candidate hardly seems like rigor.

Her drop-by on November  10, 1993 to push the trade agreement contradicts her position that she's always opposed NAFTA. Opposing something in word but supporting it in deed is not a strong argument for evidence of leadership.


by bookish on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 11:42:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm Seeing A Pattern Here Guys (2.00 / 1)

You're doing HRC no favors bringing up NAFTA.  Clearly, it's a subject Hillary would rather leave alone at this point.


Stop H8
by mikeinsf on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:17:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Fact-Check (none / 0)

I'll make a rare comment here, just because I found this diary typically funny for two reasons.

1. For all the hysteria over "firing" somebody, his name is not "Nathan Goolsbee" (as your diary misstates). It is Austan Goolsbee. One wonders how much you know about the man if you don't even know his name.

2. In order to "fire" somebody, he or she has to be an employee on the payroll (i.e. Mark Penn). Goolsbee is an unpaid supporter.

In light of that, don't you feel just a wee bit silly?


by The Field on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 12:24:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fact-Check (none / 0)

Austan Goolsbee is a Milty Friedman free-trading goon.


by vivanarchia on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 05:49:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Uh I Uh uh I (1.87 / 8)

I maybe didn't really not know if you knew that you knew so then I'm probably upset for making you perhaps be upset but I'm not really upset for doing whatever it was.


I didn't believe in god before the primaries and I still don't.
by NewHampster on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 09:29:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Uh I Uh uh I (none / 0)

Oh, that's gooood!


by creeper1014 on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 11:01:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey Barry - Didja Fire Goolsbee Yet? (1.50 / 2)

yawn


by Obamanaut on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 09:33:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey Barry - Didja Fire Goolsbee Yet? (2.00 / 5)

I'm sorry - are we keeping you up past your bedtime?


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 09:36:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey Barry - Didja Fire Goolsbee Yet? (2.00 / 2)

You could cut the snark, and join DEMS in defining McCain.

Does President McCain scare you, as it seems that you are more afraid of a President Obama?


by FOB92 on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 09:39:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Note the response (2.00 / 2)

A pox on the houses of all who think McCain is better than any Dem.  McCain is pro-life, he gets 29% for the LCV.  He wants to bomb Iran.  He wants more wars.

To all of the Obama supporters out there (I am no longer one of you):  Is McCain better than Hillary?  NO. If you disagree then explain why!

To all of the Clinton supporters out there:  Is McCain better than Obama?  NO if you disagree then explain why!

We are on a track to turn a democratic year into a republican victory...


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 09:48:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Of Course McCain's Worse (2.00 / 6)

But why are you asking me this guys? I've said I'll back whoever gets the nod.

Question is - why ask us?  Given the way BO's followers are acting like Hillary's backers aren't even Democrats I would think the quesiton would be better directed to them.

Did you by any chance see Jerome's front page post this evening?  No? Go check it out then.  I'm sure the comments are pretty telling too.


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 10:32:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Of Course McCain's Worse (2.00 / 0)

I am glad you will support our nominee. 2'ed


by Obamanaut on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 10:35:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I was not referring to you alegre (none / 0)

but the community as a whole.  Your diaries enflame the "I am never voting for candidate X feelings" (on both sides) as you can see in the comments and that is not good for either candidate.

If the party can't unify easily, McCain is given a huge benefit because people like Chris Matthews, like Sean Hannity, like Katie Couric, like Brian Matthews are McCain's base.  Look at the coverage he gets and what he can say but no one seems to give a damn.

You may have good intentions but you are feeding a wider problem.


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 12:08:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Big mojo for this, alegre (none / 0)

I've said I'll back whoever gets the nod.

That is exactly how Democrats behave.


by bookish on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 11:46:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I will support Hillary with everything I (2.00 / 1)

have, with passion and vigor, until every single voter, delegate, and superdelegate has had his or her say. She or her supporters are in this until the very last vote has been cast. That's just reality. However, if at the end of that process Obama is the nominee, I, and many millions more just like me will instantly jump aboard the Obama bandwagon because defeating McCain is far more important than any animosity that has built between the Hillary and Obama supporters over the couse of this primary. I know there are many supporters from both camps who are throwing out ultimatums about voting for McCain should their candidate lose, but I believe that number, in the end, will be very small - almost insignificant. I don't sweat that stuff. It will sort itself out.


Obama supporter working to defeat McCain.
by Rumarhazzit on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 11:22:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You aren't the partisans I am decrying (2.00 / 1)

but notice only 3 people responded.  Note how no one tries to reel in the partisans.  I have told people to knock it off several times only to be ignored.

That is why I say a pox on partisan and I explained why slightly downstream.

Bias like Jerome's or Jonathon's only enflames people and flings them on the road to partisanship.


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 12:04:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I admire your efforts, and I have been (none / 0)

seeing how you are trying. But if I'm being honest here, it must be a bottom line thing or I don't think Kos or Jerome would allow it. Having and stoking primary warfare must be good for the till or I don't believe it would stand. But that's just me. I could be totally wrong and I have no way of knowing for sure. Maybe I being too cynical and they know from past experience that this will all simmer down once we have a nominee. It's probably a combination of both.


Obama supporter working to defeat McCain.
by Rumarhazzit on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 12:15:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I hope so (none / 0)

but the actions of the campaigns aren't encouraging; the negative ads up by both candidates and hit piece mailers sent by both candidates also make me regard both candidates in a lesser light.

But yeah Jerome definitely baits the Obama people and Markos chased off most of the Clinton people.


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 12:31:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Student Guy (2.00 / 1)

You're no longer an Obama supporter?  I'm very sorry to hear that.  I've really appreciated you pro-DEM message throughout the time that I have read your posts.  If there was something that pushed you away from Obama, I would love to repair that breach if I am able.  To have turned off a positive person like yourself is very bad and I hope I just misread you.


John McCain wants you to be poor!
by nklein on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 11:30:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It is the negative message of (none / 0)

both campaigns while McCain gets a free ride.

Hillary has a negative ad tearing at Obama up in roughly 50% of the markets in PA.  She has her own distorting mailers out see Ben Smith's blog

Obama has an ad hammering Sen. Clinton on trustworthiness up in PA.  He has mailers that slam another democrat.

The conduct of both campaigns in this primary is deplorable, and a pox on them both for there actions which is why neither candidate will get anything from me anymore to bash the other with.

As far as candidates go, I have more affinity towards Sen. Obama due to the message he talks about (shifting to a new politics).  My distaste for the primary is due the partisanship and even a prayer of getting away from that earns some sympathy.


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 12:01:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Note the response (none / 0)

Actually I think his last LCV rating was zero.


by mady on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 11:43:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I think (none / 0)

29% is his lifetime rating, but I could be wrong.  I know I am not infallible.


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:38:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I think (none / 0)

You're right, the 0 was his rating this last cycle.


by mady on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 04:19:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You have that right! (1.66 / 3)

I am way more afraid of a President Obama than I am of McCain.  Look at Obama's record.....there is NONE.  Look at his friends.....ALL UNAMERICAN.  Look at his church and pastor......God DAMN America.  Look at his wife's thesis.....I want black separatism.  Look at his campaign.....try to paint the Clintons as racist so I can get the black vote.  That is really scary information and it is all factual not lies like he is trying to spread about Hillary.

I will NEVER vote for Obama for any reason whatsoever.


by macmcd on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 09:01:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Yes Yes Yes he can (1.00 / 0)

Bitter much.


by venician on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 10:04:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey Barry - Didja Fire Goolsbee Yet? (2.00 / 4)

I'm having a moment here, all full of admiration for you and how hard you keep working to elect our girl.   I don't comment much, just wanted to say a great big  thank you.


by curryorama on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 10:07:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey Barry - Didja Fire Goolsbee Yet? (2.00 / 1)

Wow - thanks Curryorama ;o)

Hey do me a favor - if you can swing it could you use my hillraisers link in the update to this diary and send Hillary a few bucks?

She's got to raise the money to counter these BS mailers.

Thanks for the kind words & your support of Hillary!


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 10:34:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

How do you fire somebody... (2.00 / 1)

... who does not work for you?


Ignorance is weakness. Get strong.
by tbetz on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 11:17:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey Barry - Didja Fire Goolsbee Yet? (1.50 / 2)

Go ahead and pony up ... to paying back 10M for Mark Penn and Co.  
What pisses you off more - Hils about to lose to Barry, or the fact that she is 8-digits deep to the the comb-over?  
Great campaign, Hils.  Well done.  
'The only people for me are the mad ones, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing ...'
by stryan on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:10:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey Barry - Didja Fire Goolsbee Yet? (2.00 / 1)

Where did he admit his mailer was wrong? Show me.


Your old role is rapidly aging. Please get out of the new one if you can't lend a hand, for the times they are a changing.
by Travis Stark on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 08:24:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

you digging back into the past I see (2.00 / 1)

I wonder what else we can find there.


-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 09:27:43 PM EST

Erm... No (2.00 / 6)

These mailers just hit PA mailboxes today.


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 09:37:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The press is McCain's base (none / 0)

Look at this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jE96K01YO 24

and yet the firefight continues...


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 09:29:28 PM EST

Re: Hey Barry - Didja Fire Goolsbee Yet? (1.00 / 1)

Alegre why are you still claiming that Hillary didn't get out there and support NAFTA when her own public white house schedule says she did? You make a big deal of the word boon, but who cares what word she used. She got on board and promoted her husband's trade deal.


Your old role is rapidly aging. Please get out of the new one if you can't lend a hand, for the times they are a changing.
by Travis Stark on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 09:29:37 PM EST

Re: Hey Barry - Didja Fire Goolsbee Yet? (2.00 / 6)

http://facts.hillaryhub.com/archive/?id= 6225

Hillary has been critical of NAFTA long before she started running for President. For example, here's Hillary in March 2000:

What happened to NAFTA I think was we inherited an agreement that we didn't get everything we should have got out of it in my opinion. I think the NAFTA agreement was flawed. The problem is we have to go back and figure out how we are going to fix that. [Working Families Party, 3/26/00]

Last night former Clinton adviser, David Gergen, confirmed that Hillary `was extremely unenthusiastic about NAFTA':

<strongGERGEN: "I was actually there in the Clinton White House during the NAFTA fight and I must tell you Hillary Clinton was extremely unenthusiastic about NAFTA. And I think that's putting it mildly.</strong> I'm not sure she objected to all the provisions of it but she just didn't see why her husband and that White House had to go and do that fight. She was very unhappy about it and wanted to move on to health care. So I do think there's some justification for her camp saying, you know, she's never been a great backer for NAFTA." [David Gergen, Anderson Cooper 360, 2/25/08]

Sen. Obama has sent mailers misrepresenting Hillary's position as pro NAFTA. The Cleveland Plain Dealer and Politico have called these mailers "erroneous" and "bogus."


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 09:41:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey Barry - Didja Fire Goolsbee Yet? (2.00 / 1)

"HRC didn't want the Administration to move forward with NAFTA, but not because she was opposed to NAFTA as a policy. She opposed NAFTA because of its timing. She wanted her health-care plan to be voted on first." - Robert Reich

I respect Reich, and trust his judgement that she didn't oppose NAFTA . . . it just wasn't a priority.


NO 100 year WAR, NO McConnell run Senate, & NO GOP-led Supreme Court!!!
by Veteran75 on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 09:55:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey Barry - Didja Fire Goolsbee Yet? (2.00 / 1)

You can add Lawrence O'Donnell to the list of people who agree with Reich's recollection.  Just for future posts.

It doesn't matter to me - what does matter is the way the Clinton campaign chose to go down this road with the Goolsbee story.


by Mostly on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 10:23:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey Barry - Didja Fire Goolsbee Yet? (1.66 / 6)

If you only use the Clinton pr operation as your source of information, then of course you wouldn't know about the many stories about HRC's work on behalf of NAFTA.

I'm finding it harder and harder to believe that you are not a paid pr flak.  No real person would hew so closely to a pr line. You remind me of a state department flak I heard at a conference before the war started who, unlike the defense intellectuals from the military academies there, just spun and spun and spun.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 09:55:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey Barry - Didja Fire Goolsbee Yet? (2.00 / 3)

Ummm... anyone with a computer can find the information I'm posting.

You seem convinced I'm on staff - you can't prove what isn't true.

Either way - I guess I should be flattered that people think I'm that good at advocating for my chosen candidate.

If you had kids who've benefited from her work with the CDF and beyond, you'd understand why I'm so dedicated to helping Hillary win this thing.  

A mother's love and passion has no equal - none.  If you choose to believe there are other motivations at work - like money - then I really can't do anything about that.


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 10:41:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey Barry - Didja Fire Goolsbee Yet? (2.00 / 2)

No, I don't think you're a good advocate.  You are absolutely unpersuasive when it comes to anyone who is not already a true believer.

But you are relentless and you sure know how to link.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 10:45:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey Barry - Didja Fire Goolsbee Yet? (2.00 / 1)

Since you know academic perhaps you know this saying.  It is easier to critize something than accomplish something.

david


by giusd on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 12:01:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey Barry - Didja Fire Goolsbee Yet? (none / 0)

What about a father's love and passion??


Toot, thank you for raising such a terrific person...You done good and we will have you in our hearts.
by hootie4170 on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 12:13:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey Barry - Didja Fire Goolsbee Yet? (2.00 / 1)

Maybe a source that isn't in Hillary Clinton's website might just be a little more convincing?


Stop H8
by mikeinsf on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:22:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey Barry - Didja Fire Goolsbee Yet? (none / 0)

Whee. All this proves is that Gergen is lying to help Hillary. We already knew that. Could you pick a more biased source next time for corroboration?

Seriously, this is like Obama using Axelrod (for instance) to claim he never said something when there are far more sources proving he did.


No Way. No How. No McCain-Palin!
by Texas Gray Wolf on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 10:02:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey Barry - Didja Fire Goolsbee Yet? (2.00 / 4)

http://facts.hillaryhub.com/archive/?id= 6212

UPDATE - Obama Continues Misleading Attacks on Trade, Former Clinton Advisor Confirms that Hillary was critical of NAFTA
2/26/2008 11:44:40 AM

"Senator Obama's insistence on repeating attacks that have been demonstrated to be false by independent entities proves once and for all that his speeches about the new politics are just words. That's not change you can believe in." --Clinton spokesman Phil Singer

On Sunday, Sen. Obama said the following:

And yesterday, Senator Clinton also said I'm wrong to point out that she once supported NAFTA. But the fact is, she was saying great things about NAFTA until she started running for President.

This is false. Hillary criticized Sen. Obama for sending out a mailer that claimed she said NAFTA was a "boon to the economy" when she never did. FactCheck.org concluded "We do judge that the Obama campaign is wrong to quote Clinton as using words she never uttered, and it has produced little evidence that she ever had strong praise of any sort for NAFTA's economic benefits."

Hillary has been critical of NAFTA long before she started running for President. For example, here's Hillary in March 2000:

What happened to NAFTA I think was we inherited an agreement that we didn't get everything we should have got out of it in my opinion. I think the NAFTA agreement was flawed. The problem is we have to go back and figure out how we are going to fix that. [Working Families Party, 3/26/00]
Sen. Obama touts his consistent opposition to NAFTA. But speaking in Illinois in 2004 Obama said the United States "benefited enormously" from exports under NAFTA and talked about the need to continue to pursue trade agreement like NAFTA that support "a system of free trade in this nation that allows us to move our products overseas."

UPDATE: Last night former Clinton adviser, David Gergen, confirmed that Hillary `was extremely unenthusiastic about NAFTA':

GERGEN: "I was actually there in the Clinton White House during the NAFTA fight and I must tell you Hillary Clinton was extremely unenthusiastic about NAFTA. And I think that's putting it mildly. I'm not sure she objected to all the provisions of it but she just didn't see why her husband and that White House had to go and do that fight. She was very unhappy about it and wanted to move on to health care. So I do think there's some justification for her camp saying, you know, she's never been a great backer for NAFTA." [David Gergen, Anderson Cooper 360, 2/25/08]

VIDEO OF GERGEN AT ABOVE LINK


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 09:42:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hillary and NAFTA (2.00 / 1)

One of these days I'll figure out how to embed youtube video here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BrPZYbCd J4


Your old role is rapidly aging. Please get out of the new one if you can't lend a hand, for the times they are a changing.
by Travis Stark on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 08:37:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

And One More... (2.00 / 4)

Sorry to flood you with info here but you asked about it.  These posts on FactHub are sourced to the n'th degree so follow the links...

http://facts.hillaryhub.com/archive/?id= 6173

Obama Continues To Mislead on Hillary and NAFTA
2/24/2008 1:54:42 PM

"Senator Obama's insistence on repeating attacks that have been demonstrated to be false by independent entities proves once and for all that his speeches about the new politics are just words. That's not change you can believe in."
--Clinton spokesman Phil Singer

Today, Sen. Obama said the following:

And yesterday, Senator Clinton also said I'm wrong to point out that she once supported NAFTA. But the fact is, she was saying great things about NAFTA until she started running for President.

This is false. Hillary criticized Sen. Obama for sending out a mailer that claimed she said NAFTA was a "boon to the economy" when she never did. Today, the University of Pennsylvania's FactCheck.org concluded "We do judge that the Obama campaign is wrong to quote Clinton as using words she never uttered, and it has produced little evidence that she ever had strong praise of any sort for NAFTA's economic benefits."

Also, Hillary has been critical of NAFTA long before she started running for President. For example, here's Hillary in March 2000:

What happened to NAFTA I think was we inherited an agreement that we didn't get everything we should have got out of it in my opinion. I think the NAFTA agreement was flawed. The problem is we have to go back and figure out how we are going to fix that. [Working Families Party, 3/26/00]
Sen. Obama touts his consistent opposition to NAFTA. But speaking in Illinois in 2004 Obama said the United States "benefited enormously" from exports under NAFTA and talked about the need to continue to pursue trade agreement like NAFTA that support "a system of free trade in this nation that allows us to move our products overseas."


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 09:45:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'll say this again (none / 0)

It's not good evidence of leadership to take one position in word and another in deed. The fact of tacit support evinced by her schedule shows that she spoke on behalf of NAFTA on November 10, 1993. She very well may have done so holding her nose; I'm not sure we'll ever know the truth of that. But she still acted on behalf of the legislation, and that shows a lack of either principle or leadership or both.


by bookish on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 11:53:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey Barry - Didja Fire Goolsbee Yet? (1.12 / 8)

I'm trying to decide if you're a brilliant parody or an utter tool.  This one pushes me toward "parody."

But just in case you're not...  As a (more-or-less) Obama supporter, I come here to remind myself how ugly blind partisanship looks.  I suggest you read Daily Kos for awhile to remind yourself.


by username2 on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 09:37:18 PM EST

Re: Hey Barry - Didja Fire Goolsbee Yet? (2.00 / 1)

Calling someone by a name she or he does not use is a nasty and personal move, and really below you.

Are you particularly frustrated by the way that the bitter comments played out?  Are you also frustrated by the overwhelming criticism of the debate, both of the moderators and, secondarily, of Clinton?


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 09:46:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey Barry - Didja Fire Goolsbee Yet? (2.00 / 7)

Soooo... you have absolutely no problem with his sending out mailers that have been disproven and on which he's even agreed parts are not true?

And please - don't call me a tool.  I try not to call you guys names and I'd appreciate the same courtesy.


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 09:47:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey Barry - Didja Fire Goolsbee Yet? (1.00 / 2)

Man, that's rich...  The name "Goolsbee" ring a bell?

And "tool" isn't a name so much as a shorthand for "person whose contributions are especially tiresome, shrill, and uninteresting."  Better?


by username2 on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 09:59:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey Barry - Didja Fire Goolsbee Yet? (2.00 / 2)

Hey way to follow your candidate's lead here with that whole "what I really meant to say was..." excuse for saying something rude.

You'd do obama proud.


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 10:47:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey Barry - Didja Fire Goolsbee Yet? (1.50 / 2)

You win Teh Interweb, dude...  Happy now?


by username2 on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 10:55:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey Barry - Didja Fire Goolsbee Yet? (2.00 / 2)

The very title of this diary is NAME-CALLING.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 09:59:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey Barry - Didja Fire Goolsbee Yet? (2.00 / 3)

You're not, by any chance "whining" again, are you?


It does not take many words to tell the truth Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
by Gabriele Droz on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 10:44:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey Barry - Didja Fire Goolsbee Yet? (2.00 / 1)

Shouldn't you be picketing NBC?


by Mostly on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 10:25:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey Barry - Didja Fire Goolsbee Yet? (none / 0)

Playing dueling NAFTA mailers is a pointless exercise.

Obama's Ohio mailer was misleading.

Clinton's Ohio mailer was also deemed misleading by FactCheck.org.

So there you have it: they BOTH are trying to take each other's comments on NAFTA out of context.

Neither candidate can claim the moral high ground here.

And thanks for trying not to call people names. This "abusive punk" appreciates it.


by jdusek on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 10:38:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey Barry - Didja Fire Goolsbee Yet? (1.83 / 6)

well, after the harry and louise mailers back in february, i didn't have very high hopes for the accuracy of obama's claims in these campaign mailers, and the timing is suspicious as well. he knows he can start rumors which can't be discredited before election day, so he's pretty much free to say whatever he wants.

he'll stick by goolsbee, who met with representatives of canada's government to deliver the message that obama wasn't sincere in his criticism of nafta. kinda ironic, considering this mailer is all huffy about obama's misrepresentation of hillary's position on NAFTA.

so who's telling the truth here, if anyone? obama in his statement on NAFTA back before he started campaigning> his statement after he started campaigning> goolsbee to the canadians? i don't believe any of them. obama's just saying whatever to try to get elected.


by campskunk on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 09:37:31 PM EST

Re: Hey Barry - Didja Fire Goolsbee Yet? (2.00 / 5)

True.  That mailer was the eye opener for me.   I moved Obama from acceptable to unacceptable column in my mental note.


by JoeySky18 on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 09:40:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey Barry - Didja Fire Goolsbee Yet? (2.00 / 3)

he attacked health care from the right. he lost you, me, paul krugman, and a lot of other good democrats with that move.


by campskunk on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 09:51:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey Barry - Didja Fire Goolsbee Yet? (2.00 / 1)

who's telling the truth? well according to the majority of people polled it's Obama. People don't trust her and don't think she can win in the G.E..


by venician on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 10:11:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey Barry - Didja Fire Goolsbee Yet? (2.00 / 1)

The Canadians who said time and time again, that Goolsbee never sent that message.  There's even an official investigation into the conservative government there to see why they seem to be undermining the democratic nomination in this country.  But believe Hillary's PR campaign instead of independent news sources.


by shalca on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 08:11:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Negativity (2.00 / 6)

Seen any good TV in PA, yet. Clinton, according to Halperin, is running 100% negative ads in many markets in PA...that's right...throughout PA she has decided that her only message is one agains BHO....Apparently, statewide it is around 90% negative. Wow.

Finally, how in the world can someone actually mention a non-paid economic advisor (Goolsbee) with a straight face...oh, thats right - its bizzaro world in the Clinton Fantasy Camp. This diary is as disingenuous as Hillary herself (i guess that comes from all the cut and paste from the ARCHIVES of her web site as opposed to actual news/information).

She has paid Mark Penn MILLIONS of dollars while he MEETS to discuss how best to lobby on behalf of a Colombia Trade Deal. Yes, Penn's PR firm was hired by Colombia...and he also went to the meeting!

Then - Mrs. Ready on Day One was not ready to fire him. Were his wages garnished at all? I mean, they said it wasnt a demotion so I guess he is still making millions off of MyDD supporters, etc who are giving HRC money.

SHAME ON YOU HILLARY.

Shall we mention Wolfson - arguably the face of the campaign (not the prettiest face) - whose ex-firm (he left to work on this campaign) is one of the other 2 firms that is lobbying on behalf of Colombia. That is right - 2 MAJOR Clinton campaign folks have DIRECT ties to lobby/pr firms that have been hired by Colombia. Well, actually only one now since Colombia fired Penn's firm.

Now...I would love to know if someone in the Clinton campaign is associated with the third of the three PR firms that have been hired by Colombia...but hey, 2 outta three aint bad. And if you add WJC there are ALOT of people around Hillary pushing for Colombia trade agreements.

Its hard to really 'fire' someone who is not paid. But wow - Penn and Wolfson, they could be fired.

Finally - if you want to discuss the debate, I think it is important to add that your candidate actually (without prompting) tried to associate BHO with Hamas. Are you proud of her for that? Talk about pandering.

Then - after getting what she wanted without having to look evil in the Ayers question - she brought it back up. What I want to know is this. What was she implying? So what if the guy have Obama 200.00. What does Hillary think that means?

Who was it that liked to point fingers at some people b/c they 'knew' or 'were seen with' other people..what was his name...1950s..square head...from the Badger State...?

By the way...did Hillary do a mailer?  


We don't need a thinker. We need a doer: someone who'll act without considering the consequences. (H.J. Simpson)
by Newcomer on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 09:45:25 PM EST

Complete and Utter Bull (2.00 / 3)

Hillary is NOT running all negative ads.  She's running one to set the record straight on big oil donations after BO bragged about not taking any - implying that Hillary does.  He completely side-steps the fact that NOBODY can take corporate donations - it's been against the law for the past 100 years.

She's runing a second ad with PA voters who're put off by your guy's portrayal of folks in small towns as bitter gun nuts who cling to their bibles while avoiding anyone who's not like them.  IT's a fair point - he let his guard down at that private high-dollar fundraiser and got caught out at it.

And I'm sorry but you can't POSSIBLY expect us to believe he wouldn't have jumped ALL - OVER that if Hillary had been so stupid as to say something like that at a fundraiser.


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 09:51:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Complete and Utter Bull (2.00 / 3)

BTW - don't believe me?  Here's a link to her campaign's YouTube page.  I defy you or anyone else to find any other ad in PA that could even remotely be called negative.

http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?us er=hillaryclintondotcom&p=r


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 09:52:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Complete and Utter Bull (2.00 / 2)

and it just happens that in MANY markets its the ONLY ad, she is running

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsm emo.com/2008/04/hillary_tv_ad_campaign_i s_100.php


Dream for tomorrow but fight for it today.
by TruthMatters on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 09:54:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Complete and Utter Bull (2.00 / 2)

Alegre,
Other people venture out of the Clinton pr bubble and read something called NEWS.  Don't be afraid, you can move beyond that safe bubble.
We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 09:57:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Complete and Utter Bull (2.00 / 2)

Actually it's not safe outside the self delusion bubble. It's very dangerous out there, where everyone already knows that Senator Obama will be the nominee.

How do they know that? By using something that the bubble dwellers fear and loathe...arithmetic.


Let the children lose it Let the children use it Let all the children boogie
by toyomama on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 10:25:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Complete and Utter Bull (2.00 / 2)

I imagine it can be very frightening for some to confront information that challenges their deeply held commitments and opinions.  


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 10:27:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Complete and Utter Bull (2.00 / 1)

Dude,

One of the most condesending and elitist comments i have read.  Really not neccessary.  Is this something you feeel comfortable with?  I would think not.

david


by giusd on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 12:08:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Complete and Utter Bull (2.00 / 1)

Yeah - now who's being patronizing?


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 10:54:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Complete and Utter Bull (2.00 / 2)

also she admitted she lied at the debate about Bosnia, has BO followed up on this? nope

or you tell me what she meant when she said she said things she knew were not true?


Dream for tomorrow but fight for it today.
by TruthMatters on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 09:55:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Complete and Utter Bull (2.00 / 0)

I liked what she said. It was the truth. She said she exaggerated. Like I've never done that... The fish was not 12 inches, more like 8, OK...6, but it was a fun day on Lake Bosnia, and the next day I really did catch a 7 inch stripe mouth bass.


by MediaFreeze on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 10:45:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Complete and Utter Bull (2.00 / 1)

Lying about a size of fish is a completely different "exaggeration" than lying about a life or death situation with your daughter.


Toot, thank you for raising such a terrific person...You done good and we will have you in our hearts.
by hootie4170 on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 12:22:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Complete and Utter Bull (2.00 / 1)

She didn't say she exaggerated. That would've actually been a fairly decent response. She said that she was untruthful. She didn't give it any explanation beyond fumbling through several different ways of saying that she didn't tell the truth. She did apologize, that's something.

But pretty much what she said was: I lied. I didn't tell the truth. I was untruthful. I said something false. I'm sorry.

Which, as far as it goes, isn't bad, since that's what happened. The problem is that she stood by it by it for so long before finally owning up to it, and she didn't say anything about that.

She could've answered the question more poorly, but it would've taken real effort.


No Way. No How. No McCain-Palin!
by Texas Gray Wolf on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 10:16:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Complete and Utter Bull (none / 0)

Obama had no need to follow up on the Bosnia comment.  The lapdogs in the press were quite happy to do it for him.

It must have been a real shock to him Wednesday night when the press asked him unpleasant questions.  


by creeper1014 on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 11:23:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Complete and Utter Bull (2.00 / 2)

Clinton does take PAC donations. Everyone knows that. Who do you think you're fooling?


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 10:07:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Complete and Utter Bull (2.00 / 3)

Look - face it, Hillary has nothing left but negativity. Her only chance is to frame her entire campaign around what Repubs/527 -might- do to BHO...just like you do. So much for solutions...

About the Ads...not sure what is on YouTube - but in PA she is 100% negative in most markets (and friends in both Philly suburbs-Bryn Mawr and west Pa around Pitt confirm this):

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsm emo.com/2008/04/hillary_tv_ad_campaign_i s_100.php

Source: Hillary TV Ad Campaign Is Now 100% Negative In Most Pennsylvania Markets
By Greg Sargent - April 16, 2008, 12:33PM
Here's a glimpse into Hillary's ad strategy in the final stretch of the Pennsylvania primary:

In most of Pennsylvania's markets, the only TV ad Hillary is running right now is a negative one -- the spot hitting Obama over his "small town" comments, a political ad buyer who tracks buys in Pennsylvania tells me.

The buyer says that as of this morning, that ad -- and no positive spots -- are running in the Pittsburgh, Erie, Johnstown/Altoona, and Wilkes-Barre/Scranton markets.

Meanwhile, the buyer says, in the Philadelphia and Harrisburg markets, Hillary's ad campaign is 50% negative -- she's running two spots, the new spot hitting Obama over oil companies, and another spot touting Hillary's plans to right the economy that doesn't mention Obama.

According to the buyer, the Philadelphia and Harrisburg markets add up to a bit over half the state's households.

Upshot: Nearly half the state's households are right now seeing only the "small town" spot, and the remaining half are seeing her economy spot and the oil spot hitting Obama, the buyer says.

Of course, this could still change at any time. Asked for a comment, Hillary Pennsylvania spokesperson Mark Nevins would only say: "We don't discuss our ad strategy. The colonel never gives away the secret recipe."

Late Update: There's still more: Ben Smith has obtained the script of a new ad hitting Obama that the pro-Clinton third party group American Leadership Project is set to run.

See also:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/04/16 /100-of-clintons-current-p_n_97068.html


We don't need a thinker. We need a doer: someone who'll act without considering the consequences. (H.J. Simpson)
by Newcomer on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 10:09:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Complete and Utter Bull (none / 0)

Thanks for citing sources, and unlike a lot of stuff here, they're noy=t from Newsmax or Hillaryclinton.com.

Good stuff, though it's reality-based, and therefore will not convince those in the thrall of Hillary's celebrity.


Stop H8
by mikeinsf on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:31:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Complete and Utter Bull (2.00 / 2)

ummm... at the debate, when Bosnia came up, he didn't say a word.  When Ayers came up, she could hardly contain herself... and didn't.  Don't play Pollyanna: they are both fighting hard, and I'm by no means saying Obama's hands are clean, but it's clearly Hillary who relishes the nasty attacks.


Stop H8
by mikeinsf on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:28:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Complete and Utter Bull (2.00 / 1)

"And I'm sorry, but you can't POSSIBLY expect us to believe he wouldn't have jumped ALL - OVER that if Hillary had been so stupid as to say something like that at a fundraiser."

But yet, he made no commercials over her repeated misstatements on Tuzla.  He didn't even comment on it when he had the chance during the debate even though she took every chance to twist the knives that Gibson and Stephanopolous were goring him with.


by shalca on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 08:17:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Complete and Utter Bull (none / 0)

I have to agree with that. Politics is politics, but she all but admitted to lying - per the transcript: "On a couple of occasions in the last weeks I just said some things that weren't in keeping with what I knew to be the case and what I had written about in my book" - and when prodded to respond to that, Obama said, "Well, look, I think that Senator Clinton has a strong record to run on. She wouldn't be here if she didn't."

Yes, I'm an Obama supporter. And yes, people exaggerate his messianic status. And yes, he is in fact a politician, and sometimes plays the game differently than I'd like. (In fact, I think the campaign he set out to run a year ago, when I first heard him talk at a private gather, has gotten away from him, though I imagine others here would disagree.) But still, he had a chance to take a potshot, and he demurred.

HRC, meanwhile, injected Farrakhan, Wright, Ayers and everything else into the debate every chance she got. I don't blame her for that. When you're down in a campaign, you only win by knocking down the leader. But it seemed a little gratuitous to me. Then again, I recognize I'm looking at the situation through my own prism, which is imperfect.

And I tend to think the people that post here and on DKos so ardently would do well to recognize the same.


by jbill on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 11:23:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey Barry - Didja Fire Goolsbee Yet? (2.00 / 2)

I take it "Barry" is the new "Hussein"?  


by Becky G on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 09:49:43 PM EST

Re: Hey Barry - Didja Fire Goolsbee Yet? (1.60 / 5)

Sadly I think Barry is the new 'boy'

:o(


NO 100 year WAR, NO McConnell run Senate, & NO GOP-led Supreme Court!!!
by Veteran75 on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 09:58:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey Barry - Didja Fire Goolsbee Yet? (2.00 / 0)

It's his name. He used it when he was a kid. Certainly it is goading, since he seems not to like it anymore, but it is hardly a racial slur.

Hilbot for instance, is an insult.


by MediaFreeze on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 10:49:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey Barry - Didja Fire Goolsbee Yet? (2.00 / 1)

So if we were to start referring to Hillary as 'Hil', 'Hills', 'Hilly', or anything like that, that'd be just fine with you? None of those have any negative connotations on their own, they're just diminutives. You'd be fine with that and not feel it was demeaning or patronizing?

If you wouldn't, don't support it when people do it to other candidates.


No Way. No How. No McCain-Palin!
by Texas Gray Wolf on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 10:19:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey Barry - Didja Fire Goolsbee Yet? (2.00 / 1)

You know, that's the way I hear it too.

Obama dropped his nickname for his given name for a reason.  I think that should be respected.

I often visit a cattle message board, and occasionally make the mistake of dropping into their "coffee shop" section.  Some of the reactionary morons there are always referring to Senator Clinton as "Hitlery" or "Shillery".

When Alegre and others call him "Barry", it might not be as jarring as the above examples, but it still drips with the same type of disrespect.


by emptythreatsfarm on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 10:51:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Well done Alegre! (2.00 / 5)

Thanks for a fine read.


by durendal on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 09:56:39 PM EST

Re: Hey Barry - Didja Fire Goolsbee Yet? (1.83 / 6)

Yeaaaa.  This is Obama's different kind of politics.  You know, the old politics he was complainging about last night.

Yup,worse than his negative campaigning and attacking, he lies.  He's been proven wrong and he keeps on repeating the lie.


by environmentally blue on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 10:06:27 PM EST

Re: Hey Hillary - Didja Fire Penn Yet? (2.00 / 1)


by haystax calhoun on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 10:07:33 PM EST

Re: Hey Hillary - Didja Fire Penn Yet? (2.00 / 1)

well thats different

thats Hillary Clinton, she pays the bills, alegre can't call her out.


Dream for tomorrow but fight for it today.
by TruthMatters on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 10:09:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey Hillary - Didja Fire Penn Yet? (2.00 / 0)

He resigned his position instantly.


by LindaSFNM on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 10:50:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey Hillary - Didja Fire Penn Yet? (2.00 / 2)

Penn's still on the campaign. That's been widely reported. He's on some campaign conference calls, he advises in private and he does and analyzes the polling.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 10:53:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey Hillary - Didja Fire Penn Yet? (2.00 / 2)

If he's still getting paid, he hasn't been fired.


by rfahey22 on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 11:03:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey Hillary - Didja Fire Penn Yet? (2.00 / 1)

And Hillary was under constant sniper fire in Bosnia.

Sorry, but "resigning" your position doesn't count when you do the same job, have the same role, are on the same calls, do the same things, draw the same salary, and all you've done is change titles slightly.


No Way. No How. No McCain-Palin!
by Texas Gray Wolf on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 10:21:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Hey Alegre did you correct your false post yet? (1.50 / 2)


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 10:12:07 PM EST

Re: Hey Barry - Didja Fire Goolsbee Yet? (2.00 / 5)

I actually used this mailing as a teaching tool in my town. used this along with his I do not take money from Oil comapnies to show what a liar he is.
We all marked them refused and dumped them back in the nailbox!
by ProudMilitaryMom on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 10:12:40 PM EST

Re: Hey Barry - Didja Fire Goolsbee Yet? (2.00 / 1)

did you also go over Hillary's mailer she is sending out

along with her bosnia quotes p.... ya know nevermind

Hillary said it herself, Obama can beat McCain, thats good enough for me.


Dream for tomorrow but fight for it today.
by TruthMatters on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 10:15:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey Barry - Didja Fire Goolsbee Yet? (2.00 / 1)

So now all of a sudden Hillary speaks the truth?  After she's obviously a liar?

You guys are too much.  Hillary is inclusive, and refuses to say that Obama cannot win, because she is more interested in Democrats winning than partisan sniping.  And now she's being bad for saying that as well.  Oh, the irony.

I have not heard ANYTHING from Obama saying something similar, as to the ultimate outcome, one way or the other.

Damned if she does, damned if she doesn't....as usual.


It does not take many words to tell the truth Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
by Gabriele Droz on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 10:52:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey Barry - Didja Fire Goolsbee Yet? (2.00 / 1)

We're going to start playing by her rules....We will tell you which statements count and which ones do not......


Toot, thank you for raising such a terrific person...You done good and we will have you in our hearts.
by hootie4170 on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 12:28:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey Barry - Didja Fire Goolsbee Yet? (2.00 / 1)

In the same debate, and in many other forums, Obama said that "of course" Clinton could win. He's never referred to her as unelectable.

Of course, he's actually running on these odd things called "issues" and "positions", instead of making the core of his campaign the idea that the other candidate isn't electable. Hillary used to do that, but she's pretty much abandoned that tactic, and her followers seem to have done likewise. This diary is one of many, many examples.


No Way. No How. No McCain-Palin!
by Texas Gray Wolf on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 10:23:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey Barry - Didja Fire Goolsbee Yet? (1.00 / 3)

If I were your supervisor -- and I am an academic administrator -- I would have a long talk with you about you bringing your political bias into the classroom.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 10:16:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

She didn't say she used them in a (2.00 / 1)

classroom. She said she used them as a teaching tool in her "town," where they marked them and put them back in the mailbox. Please read the comments before you get all patronizing and stuff.


Obama supporter working to defeat McCain.
by Rumarhazzit on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 11:38:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey Barry - Didja Fire Goolsbee Yet? (2.00 / 1)

Dude, hide-rate abuse! I'll repost this message in the spirit of free and fair discourse, because Hide Rate Abuse is NOT COOL!

"If I were your supervisor -- and I am an academic administrator -- I would have a long talk with you about you bringing your political bias into the classroom."


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 03:00:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey Barry - Didja Fire Goolsbee Yet? (none / 0)

And where did I say classroom????
We are still free here in NW Pa and workers can unite and discuss freely. I will continue to point out to everybody his lies and "misspoken statements."
Oh and point them to the FACTS about his connections to Ayers, Rezko, Wright, etc etc etc.
by ProudMilitaryMom on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 10:10:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey Barry - Didja Fire Goolsbee Yet? (none / 0)

1 for assuming the worst.  Do not read any more into a comment than is there.


by creeper1014 on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 11:30:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: UPDATED: Hey Barry - Didja Fire Goolsbee Yet? (2.00 / 2)

anyone wanna make the Obama outrage over Hillary sending out a misleading mailer on NAFTA and then ask for donations?

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsm emo.com/2008/04/hillary_mailer_hits_obam a_on_g.php

I just feel like alegre for some reason won't address the OTHER mailer going out, its almost as if she is suggesting only 1 candidate is doing it.


Dream for tomorrow but fight for it today.
by TruthMatters on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 10:19:29 PM EST

superdelegates to flock to Clinton! (2.00 / 3)

I just went back and read the end of the diary and it is really funny!!!  The superdelegates are about to flock to Clinton?

Obama picked up FIVE superdelegates in the last two days.

Furthermore, he leads among superdelegates that were elected to offices such as House of Representatives, Senate, and Governor. These are folks who can evaluate politics AND people as well as anyone. Many of them have worked with the Clintons. And they can predict the impact of a Clinton or Obama on the their state and local races.

Among Senators, Obama has 17 who support him and Clinton 13.  These folks really know the both of them.

But somehow we're going to see the superdelegates flocking to Clinton?


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 10:22:50 PM EST

Re: superdelegates to flock to Clinton! (2.00 / 2)

only super delegates from MI NY FL CA and OH count.

DUH!!!


by McTrollop on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 10:27:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: superdelegates to flock to Clinton! (2.00 / 1)

Supers? Hell I'd be happy if he got his ass outta the way and allowed the pledged delegates from FL & MI to be seated at our party's convention this summer.

I really wouldn't talk about MI & FL if I were you.


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 11:00:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I agree it's pointless (2.00 / 1)

to talk about delegates who will have no effect in choosing the democratic ominee.


by Quarterbackjoe on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 11:33:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: superdelegates to flock to Clinton! (2.00 / 1)

Nice to know they matter now.....because she is losing.....Not one word of sympathy or concern before Iowa.....Hell Ickes voted to strip em.......


Toot, thank you for raising such a terrific person...You done good and we will have you in our hearts.
by hootie4170 on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 12:31:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: superdelegates to flock to Clinton! (2.00 / 1)

Not one single time on MyDD has anyone attempted to explain why she was OK with MI and FL being excluded before she lost in Iowa.  Not once.  They can't say why because there is only one logical answer: she's losing the game and wants to change the rules midway.  Anyone want to explain her pre-Iowa stance?  I doubt it.


Stop H8
by mikeinsf on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:36:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Another pledged delegate from Ohio (2.00 / 2)

for Obama today as a result of the final count.  

We finish what we start!


by ReillyDiefenbach on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 10:34:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

That's Senator Obama to you, Alegre. (2.00 / 3)

Not Barry.  You wouldn't talk to him that way to his face, yet you feel comfortable doing it from the obscure but anonymous safety of this blog.  There's a word for that.


by ReillyDiefenbach on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 10:32:28 PM EST

Re: That's Senator Obama to you, Alegre. (2.00 / 0)

I'm sorry but I've been at this for nearly a year now and I've seen Hillary called MUCH worse - by folks who claim to be Democrats.

At least I used the nickname he's gone by for years.


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 11:02:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That's Senator Obama to you, Alegre. (2.00 / 1)

So two wrongs make a right?

I don't let me kids get away with that I'm sure you don't either.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 11:06:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That's Senator Obama to you, Alegre. (2.00 / 1)

Would it be too hard for you to just admit your error, Alegre?


by Quarterbackjoe on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 11:34:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Change your title, Alegre. (2.00 / 1)

Then this diary will back in the civil mode we've come to expect of you.  I have no problem with your numerous diaries, you are a good forceful advocate, but "Hey Barry" is not cool.  You wouldn't want "Hey Hills!" I don't think.


by ReillyDiefenbach on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 11:39:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Claiming to be Democrats (2.00 / 1)

Because it's impossible on the internet to claim you're a Democrat and actually not be.

Yet you, who we know are a Democrat (Right?  ...Right?) are disrespecting the presumptive nominee despite knowing better.

Besides, Barack never did anything to you, personally, to warrant such offhanded treatment.  Are we still punishing the candidates for the actions of people who support them?  I'm sick of that game, but if you really want to, I've got a folder somewhere with a file on Clinton's associations...


You can't stop the signal.

President "That One"

by Dracomicron on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 09:31:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

more absurdities (2.00 / 2)

Now, this is really, really sad -- An interview with the "flag pin" questioner, a woman who has had some real tough times:

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/v-print/s tory/34071.html
Posted on Thu, Apr. 17, 2008
Obama questioner explains why she finds him annoying
Margaret Talev | McClatchy Newspapers

WASHINGTON -- Nash McCabe is the voter from Wednesday night's presidential debate who noted that Barack Obama doesn't usually wear a flag pin and asked, "I want to know if you believe in the American flag."

ABC, which hosted the debate, had tracked her down after she was quoted in a New York Times story about white voters in small-town Latrobe, Pa., revealing her as 52, out of work and against Obama.

But to understand why Obama rubs McCabe wrong is to go beyond the question of what a flag pin has to do with patriotism -- it's not really about the flag pin, she said in a telephone interview Thursday -- and consider McCabe's life. It's no Hawaiian prep school and Ivy League story, unlike Obama's. It's a slice of working-class Pennsylvania, the core of Hillary Clinton's support there.

McCabe met her husband, Lloyd, in April 1983 at a dance. They married two months later. Six months after that, she says, he was injured in a coal mine accident. He hasn't worked since.

They never had children. He had back surgery. The muscle relaxers he took damaged his heart. He's had three bypasses, nine angioplasties, seven stents and a pacemaker. Three months ago doctors found a brain tumor. His choice: surgery that he may or may not survive, or life in a wheelchair.

Over 25 years of marriage, McCabe was the breadwinner. She said it took eight years to get her husband disability payments, during which time they racked up huge bills.

"I was a nurse's aide, a cashier," McCabe said. "From 1996 to 2000, I was a manager of a cleaning company. I started out as secretary and worked my way up to manager, and then the company decided to close. It took me almost two-and-a-half years to find a job that I got laid off from recently" as a clerk-typist. She has a high school diploma.

Sometimes the McCabes borrow money from her parents, who are in their 70s. She has a request in to the local food bank to see if she and her husband qualify.

"People who have sick spouses or children understand how hard it is," she said.

McCabe sympathizes with working-class people who got in over their heads during the housing boom. She opposes the Iraq war and thinks President Bush has hurt the country. She doesn't support Republican John McCain because he's too close to Bush.

On paper, her stances make her as likely to support Obama as Clinton.

But she sees a difference between the two. In Clinton, she sees someone who has struggled for years, just like her, and has earned the right to be president. In Obama, she sees someone who rose like a rocket, always has a smooth explanation for everything -- whether it's about his former preacher or the flag pin -- and who makes it all look too easy.

"That's what upsets me about Barack Obama," she says. "He takes everything so nonchalantly."

She admits that she's more likely to give Clinton the benefit of the doubt while looking for fault in Obama. For example, McCabe says that she once saw Obama on television and noticed that "he turned his back on the flag" before the Pledge of Allegiance ended. That irritated her to no end.

Lloyd McCabe's brain surgery is set for next week, two days after the Pennsylvania primary. Still, says his wife, "We're going to try to vote. I do not want to miss my vote."

McClatchy Newspapers 2008


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 11:05:19 PM EST

It's hard to be angry with her (2.00 / 1)

Nash McCabe is a victim of the injustices of this country.  I hope ABC compensated her commeasurate to the amount of criticism they exposed her to for getting her to ask such a ridiculous question of a presidential candidate on national television.

Shame on you, George Stephanopoulos.


You can't stop the signal.

President "That One"

by Dracomicron on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 09:24:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

MyDD rec question (2.00 / 3)

I was curious who recommended this diary and virtually nobody on that list has offered any comment to this diary. Now, when I recommend a diary I almost always leave a comment, either in praise of the diarist or in opposition to a detractor. So, why do all these people just rec every Alegre diary, no matter the quality, and never bother to discuss it? How does this system work?


by elrod on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 11:12:24 PM EST

Re: MyDD rec question (1.80 / 5)

There's an organized effort, probably put together by Hillary's Bloggers.  http://hillarysbloggers.soapblox.net/

In the past, in mydd diaries, they used to ask each other to e-mail them. But they probably have developed mailing lists now and then after Alegre posts, they are informed so they can rec the diary.  Rest assured, this will all be reported on sometime in the next year and we'll find out more about who these folks really are, if the moms are really moms, etc.  


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 11:16:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MyDD rec question (1.80 / 5)

They may be all using this same name to post since some of Hillary's Bloggers were banned here.  For instance, this one has a nasty edge that is not typical of Alegre, so it might be another one of those folks.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 11:18:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What the hell are you people smoking? (2.00 / 2)

Is there some rule now that if you rec a diary you're supposed to post a comment in it? No one e-mails me anything about MyDD, and even if they did, what the eff is it to you? Anybody with an account here can post diaries and comments and rec diaries - even if they were informed about it from a - {{gasp}} - e-mail. There is no conspiracy and, yes, it is time for some people to step outside and take a deep breath:

They may be all using this same name to post

How is that possible? Do you even read what you write?  


Obama supporter working to defeat McCain.
by Rumarhazzit on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 11:52:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What the hell are you people smoking? (2.00 / 1)

I'm far from technologically sophisticated, but it's very, very easy for people to share a name. All they need to do is to tell each other the name and password and multiple people could use it.  


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 09:04:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MyDD rec question (none / 0)

I'm noticing that you're getting troll-rated for this.  Vindictive lot over at Hillarybloggers, it seems.


Stop H8
by mikeinsf on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:39:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

more on superdelegates (2.00 / 3)


http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/18/us/pol itics/18dems.html?_r=1&hp&oref=s login
Interviews on Thursday with a cross-section of these superdelegates -- members of Congress, elected officials and party leaders -- showed that none had been persuaded much by her attacks on Mr. Obama's strength as a potential Democratic nominee, his recent gaffes and his relationships with his former pastor and with a onetime member of the Weather Underground.

In fact, the Obama campaign announced endorsements from two more superdelegates on Thursday, after rolling out three on Wednesday and two others since late last week in what appeared to be an orchestrated show of strength before Tuesday's Pennsylvania primary. Obama advisers said that one of the pickups on Thursday, Councilman Harry Thomas Jr. of the District of Columbia, had initially favored Mrs. Clinton, but Clinton advisers denied that, and a Thomas aide said he had been neutral before Thursday.

In interviews, 15 uncommitted superdelegates said they did not believe that recent gaffes by both candidates would carry any particular influence over their final decision. They said they had particularly tired of all the attention, by the Clinton campaign and the news media, on Mr. Obama's recent comment that some Americans were "bitter" over the economy and chose to "cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them" as a result.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 11:21:15 PM EST

For a moment (2.00 / 3)

I thought you were maybe turning the corner to a more balanced approach in your advocacy for Hillary.  But then this...

Quite sad.  I guess for you, you will have to keep clinging to the saint versus devil mentality so that your faux umbrage and outrage can give you a reason to see past reality and allow you to keep pushing pr and discredited material as fact (how do you fire someone who doesnt work for you by the way?).  Its way beyond rose colored glasses stuff.

I know it must hurt, I wish I could figure out a way to let some sunshine into that dark place which must be your heart, but I think only therapy will get you there now.

Once and for all, Obama is not the devil, OK, and Hillary is just as dirty.  They are both politicians, they both talk out the sides of their mouths and they are both good dems and will do us proud.  You do your candidate no good service, none of your cheerleaders do either, you make her look awful.  Just like the crazies on the other side do Obama.

You claim you will support Obama if he is the nominee yet you do everything you can to falsely villify him in relation to Hillary.  I doubt your word to be honest.  No dem advocates like you and can still claim they are dem first.

Deep breath now and repeat after me 'they are both politicians, they will both say things to your face they do not believe because they know you want to hear it.  There is no change, there is no 'new politics', there is no 'fighter'.  They are not your advocate.  They just both suck way less than McCain and lots fewer people will die with either of them'.


by pattonbt on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 12:37:25 AM EST

I always like your diaries... but (2.00 / 1)

I tire of people calling Barack ... Barry.

How about we stick with the REAL names?


Washington Woman

Progressive Blue

by kevin22262 on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 12:57:49 AM EST

hillarysbloggers (2.00 / 2)

Shouldn't you be a little more up front that you posted this first from your own site, http://hillarysbloggers.soapblox.net/


Stop H8
by mikeinsf on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:11:12 AM EST

What are you complaining about? (1.66 / 3)

She's vetted; she can handle it.

No sweat, right?


by jaywillie on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:23:53 AM EST

Re: UPDATED: Hey Barry - Didja Fire Goolsbee Yet? (2.00 / 1)

No surprise.  It's Barack Obama--politics as usual.


Young lifelong Democrat. One of over 3,000,000 voters who kicked McCain and Palin out of Pennsylvania, permanently.
by BPK80 on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 04:40:14 AM EST

Re: UPDATED: Hey Barry - Didja Fire Goolsbee Yet? (2.00 / 1)

Ah is Mark Penn still a part of the HRC campaign?
(ya know Columbia?)
Ah is Bill Clinton still a part of the HRC campaign?
(ya know Columbia?)
"If you want to end war and stuff, you gotta sing loud"...Arlo Guthrie
by nogo war on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 07:27:00 AM EST

shhhhhhh! (none / 0)

Pay no attention to the hypocrisy behind the curtain!!!!  


by RidleyGriff on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 03:14:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: UPDATED: Hey Barry - Didja Fire Goolsbee Yet? (2.00 / 2)

By the way... Sen. Obama has not gone by Barry since H.S.. Were you a classmate? If not your use of this name cheapens any valid points you might make.


"If you want to end war and stuff, you gotta sing loud"...Arlo Guthrie
by nogo war on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 07:31:49 AM EST

Great diary, AGAIN!!!! (1.00 / 1)

I know that the facts are so grating to Obama-lemings.  It is sad that they have to deal with the cognitive dissonanace on a daily basis.  It is not wonder that they are so unpleasant and have such tantrums.  

Keep up the good work, Alegra.  You are an excellent advocate for Hillary and Hillary WILL be a great president.

Thank you, both of you.


by macmcd on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 09:08:27 AM EST

Re: Great diary, AGAIN!!!! (2.00 / 1)

Another one of those folks who couldn't stand name-calling and so had to go on strike or something?


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 10:17:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Really sad (2.00 / 2)

You know, I was angry, and, dare I say it, bitter, through much of the early campaign, as I watched John Edwards, someone I still believe could have been one of our top 5 presidents in history, and far better than either Clinton or Obama, fall farther and farther behind. I still blame the press for largely freezing him out.
It was even worse for me when he saw what was inevitable, that he could not win, and bowed out.
I was sad, angry and bitter for a week or so, and the pain of thinking of what might have been still nags me.
But you know something? As sad and frustrated as I was, I still lived in the same world as everybody else. I saw what was, what could be and what couldn't be, and I dealt with it. I don't really have too much at stake here in this primary season any more, and I could live with either candidate, though by now, I'd rather have Obama.
But, man, it's sad to watch these desperate people flailing at every last straw, trying to keep afloat in this nomination fight, which every day, tilts ever so slightly more toward Obama.
I mean, I can deal with Edwards not getting the nod. Edwards is dealing with it most admirably. Why is it so hard for Clinton and her backers to deal with their failure to clinch it?
And to be sure, try as they might--she, her campaign and her supporters, all--to make it seem otherwise, Obama didn't somehow "steal" this nomination. He didn't "cheat". She, and you, can't reasonably or fairly blame Obama from thievishly snatching something that was Clinton's by right from her deserving hands.
She had her chance. She had everything going for her at the beginning of this whole thing, or at least seemingly had it. She is the one who blew it. She is the one who pissed it away, well, she and her campaign, but then, she chose those hacks and frauds, and stuck with them, even up to now.
If she couldn't get enough people to choose her, then the blame lies at her feet, not at Obama's.
It's become clear to all but Clinton herself, the last few desperate people in her own campaign, and among her most devoted supporters that she is not going to win. To others, you all look really sad.
It's fine to mourn something you've lost; nobody begrudges you that. But you're liviing in a world of yor own fantasies, where all yo have to do is believe something to make it so.
It's really undignified. And for your own sakes, I'd urge you all to find a better way to handle it.
I'm sure I'll get piled on for this, and that's all right...
ооо
by Mumphrey on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 10:14:39 AM EST

Like (2.00 / 1)

I care that you're pissed off, Alegre.

Many of us have felt the same about Clinton for months; some of us just choose to not voice it.


I'm riding the Low Road Express. Join me at www.lowroadexpress.com
by LtWorf on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 10:52:35 AM EST

Hey Hillary (none / 0)

Did you fire Penn, wolfson and bill yet?


"I am standing with Barack Obama to say, `Yes, we can!'" Hillary Clinton 6/7/08
by feliks on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 11:46:39 AM EST

"Hey Barry" (none / 0)

That's "Senator Obama" to you.  Try to have some respect.


by McNasty on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 12:15:38 PM EST

Re: "Hey Barry" (none / 0)

I agree.  The author really discredits the diary by having such a juvenile title.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem


by rkt on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 04:19:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: UPDATED: Hey Barry - Didja Fire Goolsbee Yet? (none / 0)

Hi Allegre....

Here's an Ad I sent to the Obama campaign, to run 3 days before the primary...

It's pretty effective, don't you think?

Fade up from black

Image: Grainy black and white photo, a deserted factory, with a "Closed" signs over the door.

Cross-fade to image: Men standing in long line, outside unemployment office...

Music fade up, ominous dark orchestra chords

Voice Over begins(low masculine): All over Pennsylvania and the rust belt, free trade policies like NAFTA have closed factory, shipped jobs overseas, shattered lives...

Fade to picture of Bill and Hillary on the stump

Voice Over:  Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton in their autobiographies BOTH claim NAFTA as a major accomplishment of the Clinton presidency.
(Source: NY Times articles )

Fade to picture of Hillary alone

Voice Over: Now campaigning in Pennsylvania, Hillary Clinton says she was against it all along?

Voice Over: But the NY Times sites secret meetings Hillary Clinton held in the 90s selling NAFTA to Business Leaders  (Source NY Times article.)

Music, ominous swell

Cross-fade to image of map of Colombia.

Voice over: Today, there is new trade pact with Colombia being pushed through Congress by the same interests that supported NAFTA.

Fade to image of Bill Clinton speaking before business type meeting

Voice Over: Bill Clinton was paid over $800,000 by a Colombian business group to speak on behalf of this new trade pact.
(Source NY Times, Gold International paid Clinton 800K....)

Fade to Image of Mark Penn

Voice Over: Recently it's been revealed, Hillary Clinton's chief strategist was the main lobbyist for this trade pact, paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to lobby politicians vote for this bill
(Source NY Times: Penn wears multiple hats)

Fade back to image of Hillary on the stump.

Voice Over:  Now, Hillary Clinton claims she is against this Colombian trade pact, but hasn't she said she was against NAFTA at the same time she was supporting it behind closed doors?

Fade back to image of close factory

Voice Over: What are she and her advisors really supporting behind closed doors this time?

Fade to black


Rush Limbaugh, Sara Palin and Joe the Plumber...The Triad of Republican Irrelevancy.
by WashStateBlue on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 04:38:12 PM EST

Re: UPDATED: Hey Barry - Didja Fire Goolsbee Yet? (none / 0)

1.  It's Austan Goolsbee, not Nathan.

2.  Canada's government has confirmed that the assurance that their position on NAFTA was for show came from the Clinton camp.

3.  Obama should apologize, if he has not already, for falsely attributing a quote to Clinton about NAFTA.


by Wayward Son on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 05:18:48 PM EST

Re: UPDATED: Hey Barry - Didja Fire Goolsbee Yet? (none / 0)

One of the most watch vids on you tube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDF9f3FFg mY


"If you want to end war and stuff, you gotta sing loud"...Arlo Guthrie
by nogo war on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 06:27:13 PM EST

Re: UPDATED: Hey Barry - Didja Fire Goolsbee Yet? (none / 0)

sorry is the the link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exsmFDYyK 4U
"If you want to end war and stuff, you gotta sing loud"...Arlo Guthrie
by nogo war on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 06:31:26 PM EST


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