You GO girl!

Yeah!

Don't forget to donate ok?

can i get a what-what?!?

go girl!

was a travesty.

Look at this site, most people think this debate was a bad as the MSNBC debate with Timmeh.

That is all I am saying and no tip or rec for you tonight because of this horrid debate

Also the focus group was 25 people, and the breakdown for voting in the primary was 55%-45%
25 people is hardly a scientific poll.

To be honest, the only winner of that debate was McCain. The real loser were the Americans that expected ABC to present questions about policy and the future of this country, not constantly rehashed gotcha talking points that have no bearing on anything.

if the debate is going to be re-broadcast?  Missed it because I had to work.  But it's great to read here just how Hillary rocked!

in the debate tonight: Democrats and the viewing public. I mean, Hillary was asked to her face whether she's a liar, and you celebrate the results of that?

Hard to win a debate when you get asked inane questions ranging from "OK Os..Obama why don't you wear a flag pin?" and "Tell us about that 60's terrorist you love so much!"

The debate was a disgrace, both candidates received an unfair treatment from ABC.

It was as if alegre and steve were submitting questions to ask about Obama. (in addition to Hannity)

She did a great job.

...but for the most part I thought she did better than he did tonight. She was more fluent, looked more alert (he was looking pretty ragged), and I think she just got her points across better.

Mind you, I still agree with more of his positions than hers. She didn't win me over, but I thought she did well.

I suspect it will be too little too late, though. We'll get some valuable information next Tuesday, though, eh?

I agree totally.  BO seemed to be saying "it depends on what the defination of what is is!!! His anwser on why it stop Wright from doning his campaign convicaiton was weak and he was clearly lying when he said he was not aware of some of the things that Wright said.  BO just looked like a lawyer parsing every word and neve just giving an anwser.  Really weak.  And the Bittergate is not out in the open and i think will start to get traction.  Really bad night for BO. If this was agaisnt McCain the race would be over.

david

Yea for Hillary! I thought she did a great job tonight. She is always better in the debates. But she really won toinght!!

Congrats to all the Hillary supporters. She is going to win this election. Pennsylvania will be a turning point for her.

it certainly didn't cover serious issues like:
Health care; the recession; Afghanistan; the mortgage crisis; deregulation; veterans' care; torture; restoring America's image abroad; the surveillance state; the environment.

How about that for a substantive debate, it was all about gotcha gutter politics.

Alegre, you amaze me!

But Hillary amazes me even more!

She had a spectacular night, just as impressive as her early debates.  What depth of knowledge, focus, sincerity, grit, humor, determination.

She is so presidential.

I am proud to support her.

Sorry- the voters have the right to know about Obama's connections to people like Ayers. Better now than in the GE.

It is about time somebody in the media started treating him like a candidate for President of the United States and not like some media and DNC proclaimed messiah.

That is super terrific for her. I'm sure this debate is the "game changer" like Wright and Bitter and Rezko and all of the other things that were going to turn this race around and give it to Hillary.

It's nice that she had a big stage where she could beat the crap out of the Democratic nominee. I suspect we will all come to regret it.

Obama was stupid to agree to this debate. When he did, he killed any chance of ending the race before PA.

The only thing worse than Obama's performance was that of Gibson and Stephanolpolis.

They've had what, about 30 debates so far? I've watched most of them, and IMO Clinton has appeared more well informed and able to articulate her view on the issues better in most of them than Obama.  Obama has improved greatly from the early debates, but he's still not so great at it.

I thoght it was an all-out Tabloid assault from Bill's former right-hand man who got his questions from Sean Hannity- yep. Old George was on his show today getting tips from the right wing. Great hit job ABC and this diary is out-of-touch.

I notice alot more angst about "gotcha politics" tonight, after Obama was the target, than I saw during the last series of NBC debates where Hillary was targeted.  Hmmmm.

I get the feeling these diaries are auto-generated from some machine at hrc.com.

Wake up and listen to the rest of the country...every station, blog, etc. there is outrage all around.  

Everyone lost this debate. It was a hit job by ABC and it was orchestrated in part by Fox, apparently. To think that HRC somehow 'won' this is absurd, and honestly I think you are patronizing many here at MyDD. There was absolutely no winner. Both candidates were backed into corners - and honestly, the questions led to some major pandering by both that was also unfortunate.
This was the worst debate ever.

Although I missed the debate due to some work overload this evening, just looking at the comments here from the Obama zealots it is clear that he probably sucked big time tonight. Of course the ongoing themes being pushed is that: (1) Democatic party lost [aka let's also drag Hillary in the ditch with us; or we believe that Obama is already the nominees so if he lost by extension democratic party lost]. (2) Media/ABC were the big losers [Ofcourse they never thought that media is ever going to turn negative on Obama, and if/when that happens, a guy with a thin resume like Obama will not have much leg to stand on. Also I may add media/journalists were not so evil when they called Hillary a pimp or a fuck--- who--]. (3) Irrelevant line of questioning [Some people have created a bubble around them in which Wright, "bitter small town people clinging to their relegion", etc. have all become non-issues, effectively "neutralized" by Obama, So shock of shocks that questions were asked in those areas].

I guess it is time for some people to right another diary to scare the batshit out of the "ladies" still supporting Hillary - fall in line behind Obama or "evil" McCain will take away abortion right, atc. etc.

Thank you.

For continuing to give voice to the tens of millions of Democrats who admire Hillary Clinton but are drowning in the echo chambers.  

I support Hillary but I did not think she did well in the first half of the debate (still have to watch the second half).  I sympathized quite a bit with Obama's call to end the old 'gotcha' politics.  This debate was a piece of crap, and I don't think it will help Hillary all that much.

How many delegates will she get from this victory?

I am really suprised at all the Obama supporters who think that Both candidates were treated badly tonight.  This is how Clinton has always been treated.  You didn't notice it until it happened to Obama, though.  That is pretty insulting and don't think we didn't notice that about you in the past.  We are used to it.  Hillary is skilled at handling this kind of shit because she has to be, and one thing that did happen tonight, is that we got to at least see how Obama reacts and handles the same kind of treatment.

Alegre, in the interest of fairness, you should point out the number of people sampled in the undecided voter group.

While I agree that HRC likely won the debate among undecided voters in PA, I am not altogether sure it was for good reason (a win is a win, in politics, but this debate will be immortalized and studied in journalism ethics classes for years to come--I am not sure, long term, it helps her to have "won" a tainted debate). I also think it is not really a selling point with HRC that she won 12 out of 25 undecided voters, when the majority of the other half said that no one won. That's not exactly bragging rights.

Is it any surprise, after what we saw with the media on the bitter issue, completely out of touch with what people really felt but trying hard to make people feel anger...is it any surprise that they would call the debate for Hillary tonight?

HILLARY!

Wow, what a great night this was for Hillary and her millions of supporters and fans! Obama looked bloody awful and squirmed as he tried unsuccessfully to answer the probing questions about some of his unsavory friends.

You can tell it's a great night for Hillary because all the probama sites are in a furious uproar. LOL! Hey, just what the hell did you think was going to happen if Barry got the nomination? What do you suppose the GOP, McCain, and the far right 527s would do to him, hmm? Do you actually suppose they'd be civil and respectful and ignore all of his leftist, crooked, indicted buddies?

Let's see what they have to choose from:

Wright-Gate
Auchi-Gate
Ayers-Gate
Rezko-Gate
Elitist-Gate
Bitter-Gate

Did I leave something out?

Hillary was freaking awesome tonight! BO was pitiful. A bunch of undecideds just broke for Hillary!

Looks like the SUSA PA poll might have been and understatement. :)

Living and working overseas I dont get to see these things so I am jumbling together a few things from a few different sources here (some neutral, some pro-Obama, some pro-Clinton) and the transcripts I have seen so far, so I could be wildly off.  But anyway, heres my take away:

A) ABC should be ashamed.  Not for necessarily going full frontal assault on Obama - welcome to modern politics - but give me break, this was a democratic debate and the first half was on garbage stuff.  I think this is one porblem with the long primary cycle is that there have been over 20 debates and after a while they all end up boiling down to this.  But the MSM sucks in general so I guess I shouldnt have expected serious political debate since we rarely get that anymore anyway.  So on this one - whatevs.

B) Obama got the brunt of it and as an Obama supporter, such is life.  Obama, in the debates previously has gotten a lighter hand so turnabout is fair play.  I just personally hate to see this kind of crap either way.  But tonight was his turn, so he needs to take it like a man, like Hillary has had to do (please, no sexism meant with 'man'), and keep on trucking.  I dont think there was any real damage done.

C) Hillary, like or not, is still in a precarious position.  Hillary to me, judging by some of the transcripts, just can not help herself to from getting in the punk-like jab.  Sorry, but its true.  When she has a chance to step up to the plate and defend a fellow democrat her instinct is to attack.  Ive always believed her strength in this process would have the high road, elder states(wo)man.  That way she could lead from the front on issues.  But its politics and its a strategy, fine, thats the way of the world, but it plays terribly into her high negatives.  Whether the folks here want to admit it or not, Obama had chances to take some pretty low blows and mostly abstained (judging by the transcripts).  On the issues, as usual, Hillary was amazing and did well, but the petty jabs offset that amazingness a bit.  Hillary always seems to revel in the politics of jabs, and its unbecoming.  So while she scores huge on the issues side, she loses a couple points from not being able to reign in her glee for the jab.

D) Overall, looks like Obama 'lost' this one.  But honestly, I am curious to see what the non die hards think after a day of reflection.  My take on debates though is they are more forums where people can lose more than they can win.  Winning a debate doesnt really do much for you and as long as you dont gaffe hard, you will pretty much come away unscathed.  And my take seems to be while the Obama die hards are a bit peeved on the whole, neither candidate did anything to crater themselves.

E) Worth watching.  Die hard Hillary supporters must admit, fair or no, there is a natural tendency for negatives to be believed about Hillary.  In my opinion, some of it is fairly earned and some of it is not.  She also will always be seen as the insider and the heavyweight compared to Obama, thats the just the way the facts are.  Theres been a lot of news about negativity coming out and the narrative is silently but surely being drawn in harder and harder outlines that all Hillary can do is go negative.  I think there is a slim chance this debate, when the dust settles, could actually be worse for Hillary.  Lets be honest, when the gang up of Hillary took place a while ago, it wasnt sexism it was attack the leader.  And Obama should have expected that tonight and prepared better for it because it was his turn to get it.  But the media, like it or not, will still hold Hillary out as the heavyweight and Obama as the likable underdog, even though he's winning.  So when he gets attacked, and attacked by Bill Clinton's ex press secretary none the less, there is chance that a severe backlash could take place against Hillary.  While I personally dont like that narrative because it is the 'victim' card, it is realistically possible.  I really want to stress that Hillary really has to be mindful of the negative, especially since she is trying to court supers.

F) Truthfully.  Nothing extraordinary will come out of this.  There doesnt appear to be a 'sir, you are no Jack Kennedy' moment on either side - no 5 second Dean Scream clip, so in a day or two, all will be forgotten (except by us crazies here).

I will stick with my PA prediction of Clitnon +12.

By all rights, John McCain -- leading proponent of one of the most unpopular wars ever and tied at the hip to one of the most unpopular administrations in modern American history -- should be 20 points behind in the polls, at least. But he isn't. He is typically tied or even sometimes ahead. Why? Because the Cult of Personality constructed around him -- just as was true for George Bush -- remains largely unchallenged, while the right-wing/media monster demolishes the personality and character of the Democratic candidates. Until that changes, it doesn't matter how enthusiastically voters embrace the position papers of Democrats. The Right will continue to dominate our national elections irrespective of how vehement Americans reject their political positions and ideology, because these vapid themes predominate instead. Drudge Rules the Media World. Ignoring that reality or wishing it weren't so doesn't make it go away.

Stop the presses! 11 of 22 people think Clinton won!

Moderator: Is he electable?

Clinton: Yes, yes, yes

She can have the PR win, this was the most significant part of the debate and the part ALL the SDs heard.

Kinda hard NOT to win when you've got Hillary, the two "moderators," John McCain, and the entire Republican party working from the same talking points. About 90% of those points being non-issues to about 90% of the American people.

But fine, she won. I'll give you that. She won the battle...

But guess what, she LOST THE WAR. And to make matters worse, she did it to herself.

Perhaps you missed it. Perhaps you missed when George Stuffeluppelus asked her if Obama would beat McCain if he was the nominee. And perhaps you missed Hillary's answer. It went something like this: "Yes, yes, yes."

Hmmm... guess her one, last, very slim chance just went right out the window. Kinda hard to convince the superdelegates Obama is "unelectable" when Hillary herself admits he's not.

...OUT OF 22 TOTAL VOTERS.  Come on people.  

Is this a legitimate focus group voters or a bunch of people filling out a survey at a Bennigan's to extrapolate such an outcome?!

For this to be legitimate there has to be a larger sample for '50%' support for Hillary to claim a victory.

Have to say (except for her negative digs at Obama) she did a good job when talking about the issues.

So really, it sounds like Clinton won by default more than anything. Pretty much everyone agrees that this was a terrible debate, and what few questions passed as substance weren't the kind of substance people wanted to hear from the debate. Instead, it was mostly "gotcha" politics, and Obama didn't do as well. So rather than saying she won, I think the more accurate way of putting it is that Hillary didn't lose.

Given all this, I don't think there's much of anything that Hillary can use for post-debate spin. Right now, I'd say it's all on Obama. Letting it sit or downplaying the debate would probably result in a net negative (though by how much I'm not sure, as it already seems like there is broad consensus about how bad this debate was). But at the same time, he may have an opening to reiterate his ideals of getting away from this kind of politics, and be able to gain some ground off it.

Either way, I'm not really seeing this debate having a massive shift either way. The narrative is already set that the debate was a farce, and it'll be hard to work that into either campaign narrative in any particularly strong way.

Most pathetic debate I've ever seen because of the questions. Did the moderators bother to look at polls showing which issues are most important to Americans. Little on Iraq, little on the economy, nothing on torture, etc., etc. Pathetic.

The biggest winner was probably McCain.

What I see in this and other comment threads is Obama people very upset and Clinton people feeling - not happy, exactly - relieved? vindicated? over the fact that the press corps has now officially turned on Obama as many of us predicted it would.

As for myself, I am more sad that the press corps has once again played the American people like so shamelessly. I guess it's too much to ask that the media simply treat all candidates fairly, and deal in facts and real issues? Yeah - silly me, what was I thinking.

Tonight's debate was a slam dunk for Hillary. Obama, even on policy questions (taxes, Iran), triangulated, refuse to commit to anything whatsoever, and constantly rambled on...and on...and on. It's like he could never get a clear answer out, no matter what was asked of him. Hillary answered the questions concisely and had good reasoning, I had an intellectual orgasm when she answered on Iran. She always sounds more informed and prepared on the issues but that was especally evident tonight. Senator Obama; once again; was struck by his "all things to all people" syndrome, which resulted in him stumbling over everything and never giving a direct answer.

PS--for someone so "charismatic", he sure can't give a damn statement without a teleprompter. "uhh...uhh well uhh uhhh uhhh"

I missed the first part of the debate but I do think they had to ask those questions if for no other reason than to get them out of the way. Isn't there at least one other debate next month?
  I thought Hillary did great on the issues as she always does, and since the job is more about the issues (or so I always thought) I would hope that people got to see that he really doesn't knwo his stuff.
  She has not wavered in her responses to issue questions at all that I can remember go to her website like she said, the issues and what she plans to do and how she plans to do these things and how she plans to pay for them are all there, have been for quite some time.
  I liked her answer on Iraq, on the use of former presidents (notice the only he would go to was GHW Bush for his foreign policy) hmmmm, I too had a question/concern as far as his idea of Affirmative Action and white kids coming from disenfranchised homes, did not care for his answer (validated my concern) liked hers though.
  Taxes, she uniquivovally said she would not raised taxes on folks earning less than $250,000 he hedged and got pressed time and time again by GS loved it and did I hear Obama say something along the lines $97,000 to $250,000 would have to be looked at? For what?
  Liked her answer on guns and the ban in DC and NY she was even pressed further on that question and stuck with her answer and liked her reasoning for her answer.
  It would seem that there is a crack in his veneer that his supporters may not be liking so much, but I saw this coming as well. I suppose you were all counting on HIllary and her supporters t ocover his back in the GE, well guess again.
  I was sent a link to the web page of his church (it was embedded and I don't know how to send it here) after reading the home page tonight I now know why the Affirmative Action question was asked. It was a fair question in my mind. (Just a reminder I was several months an Obama supporter)
  Hillary's answers came across to me as more of a unifier in her use of all former presidents including GW Bush and I liked that.)
  If nothing else this should prepare those die hard Obama supporters to be prepared for the Republicans especially after reading the home page to the church-BTW just tried to log onto the site directly so as to cut and paste but it is temporarily down.
  IfI can figure out a way to save the page to my computer and maybe go in another way to cut and paste I will.
   Since it is about the issues, and  she certainly seems to have those down, ya gotta give it to her-she has not waivered that I can remember he has a few times on ending the war and bringing the troops home.

Namaste.

  Oh yeah, forgot-thanks for the post Alegre.

I'm honestly surprised that so many Clinton supporters were happy with tonight's debate.  The questions were absurd, more to Obama, but the stupid "oh you lost my vote when you said that stuff about Bosnia" was loony-tunes as well.  

So when Clinton supporters want to discuss the issues, that's what they have in mind?  A discussion of who Obama knew when he was 8 years old and his flag fashion choices?  

gave Obama a D+

For his weak answers

Tell ya what..
let's wait until next Tuesday and the 15%-20%
blow-out...(it will be a blow-out right?)

ya know I would think HRC supporters would be outraged also.
How many questions dealing with Health care, her strength? ah none...

How many questions on global warming?
Sub-prime?
ABC's own torture notes from last week.

A debate should be when both are asked the same question. Each and every time.
The NBC debate it was slash and burn HRC. The ABC was slash and burn Obama..if ya all don't get the big picture..open your eyes.

And then beat a hasty retreat.

Charles Black (that's McCain's Mark Penn - same company too) is on Morning Joe crowing right now.

have we reached a point where somebody gives a s**t what David Brooks says?

Alegre- if you find comfort in the fact that people think that Hillary was "in her element" last night then I question your sanity. Last night was an epic tragedy in political discourse and did a great disservice to the voters in Pennsylvania and the rest of the country.

You have lost all objectivity and sense of what is right and wrong in this campaign. Disgraceful.

The reason I support Hillary is because she wins every debate whether the moderators ARE fair to her or whether the moderators ARE NOT fair to her.  The reason she always wins the debates is because she is, without question, the best candidate.  Obama does not think well on his feet.  He must copy other's speeches to even make good speeches and he must copy other's programs to even have good ideas.  That is the reason that I do not trust him.  We have no idea who he is because right now he is trying to be a mirror and we cannot see behind the reflection.

Hillary shined last night.  She was GREAT.  And, I don't know what happened.  How did the media agree with us viewers tonight?

It topped my expectations. Hillary did great. Keith Olberamann was fumbling for words last night during his post debate analysis show. He was seaching for the Obama silver lining.

I'm not sure anyone would want to claim that they "won" an event like that since that would pretty much be saying that they approved of the event.

As you all know yesterday Pitt's major newspaper
endorsed Obama...
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08107/873 625-35.stm

Today one of the Philly papers does the same
http://www.philly.com/philly/hp/news_upd ate/20080417_VOTE_FOR_BARACK_OBAMA.html

Obama was treated like a front runner in last night's debate, and he failed miserably.  He looked tired and his answers were terrible.  

hey alegre, great diary as usual. And good debate roundup too. She won it handily. Obama didn't know what to do with two moderators who actually asked him pointed questions and didn't take his usual obfuscation for facts. bwaaaaaaa.

Why didn't you complain when MSNBC/NBC did a hatchet job on Clinton? No, you jumped in and took a few whacks yourself.

Do you realize how ridiculous your double standard is? How you've thrown Clinton to the wolves but whine like a toddler with a pantload when your candidate gets asked about his associations? And you expect the support of Clinton voters this fall?

Which flavor is it? Man-o-Mangoberry? Kickin' Kiwi Lime? Purplesaurus Rex? Sunshine Punch, or Grapeberry Splash?

slrrrrrrrruuuuuup it up, Obama Boiz.

Why didn't you complain when MSNBC/NBC did a hatchet job on Clinton? No, you jumped in and took a few whacks yourself.

Do you realize how ridiculous your double standard is? How you've thrown Clinton to the wolves but whine like a toddler with a pantload when your candidate gets asked about his associations? And you expect the support of Clinton voters this fall?

Which flavor is it? Man-o-Mangoberry? Kickin' Kiwi Lime? Purplesaurus Rex? Sunshine Punch, or Grapeberry Splash?

slrrrrrrrruuuuuup it up, Obama Boiz.

I will stick with my long time pick of HRC +12.  Probably picks her up 10-20 delegates.  Suspect she cuts Obama's lead to 100-125 by the end of this.  Big question: can she catch him in the popular vote including FL and caucuses?   She needs to do this IMO.

The good news is that the candidates quietly hinted that they will certainly be on the same ticket together. They are good soldiers and both know that this country needs a democrat in the WH.  As Hillary said, "I will do whatever it takes to ensure that we have one of us as pres in the white house."

As for the debate, finally, the moderators took off the kid gloves and really presented some togh questions.  Whenever he would slip into a stump speech, they prodded further with follow-ups.  He was sweating while Hillary remained cool. The only setback for Hillary is that people will walk away from the debate remembering her more for her needling and knit-picking with her questions and her persistence. But overall a great debate with the best moderators possible.

>Undecideds Give Tonight's Debate To HILLARY

This is great news ... for HILLARY!

For all the young folks...
registering..voting...getting involved..
helping to set record turn-outs

"one generation got old,
one generation got sold"

tap yer toes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51dle65hg dE&feature=related

alegre,

I think that glomming onto those undecided numbers is a little bit of a stretch. The focus group was made up of 22 people, so your breakdown looks like this:

Clinton - 11
No Winner - 6
Obama - 5

I'll be the first to admit that Obama didn't look great, but he took the toughest questions of the night; and by tough I don't mean quality, either. Couple that with the mods abysmal performance and there's no movement in the contest.

I concur, not merely with the most reliable of all pollsters all year, SUSA, which only a couple days back had Hillary up by 14 in Pennsylvania, but with the concensus of normally anti-Clinton bloggers, and indeed most all of normally anti-Clinton pundits and the MSM, which believe that Hillary clearly had the better night.

This cannot help but sodify her standing in Pennsylvania.

And she is clearly now the favorite not only in Kentucky, West Virginia, and still pro-Clinton Puerto Rico, but also in Indiana as well.

What occurs afterwards is a true sad state of affairs--the neophyte from Illinois attempting to secure the nomination over a long-battle scarred and clearly ready political veteran.

It was the worst of all possible images for the much younger Obama: he looked wretchedly tired, almost bored by the length of the primary process.  And this is a candidate who has yet to fathom what a general election against a Right Wing noise machine can effect.

The best possible scenario for Democrats: give Hillary the nomination, even if she is behind by a hundred or so delegates, with the understanding that Obama be the Veep candidate.  While Obama supporters will surely cry foul, it remains, truly, his only real shot at the White House.

Otherwise, even one other debate performance by Obama as terribly poor as last night's more than magnifies McCain as unbeatable.  Hillary actually came across as hipper, more alert on her feet, and dare we say--even the more "hopeful" candidate.  

The neophyte, at the end of a truly long and convulted primary process, seems now less ready for prime time than he did in Iowa four months ago.

As a lifetime Democrat and Ohioan, I knew that Obama's loss of 83 of 88 Ohio counties--on the heels of his dismal showing in Florida (a primary in which everyone knew very well whom they were voting for, contrary to Obama supporters' protests) made him unelectable in the fall campaign.

Red State primary and caucus victories, notwithstanding Howard Dean's reconstruction of the Democratic primary process, won't matter a Fig Newton in the basically winner-take-all Electoral process in November.

The Clintons have proven, what no other Democrats have proven since FDR: that they can win twice and govern successfully.

Turn away from the Clintons now and it is truly a great peril for the Democatic Party.

As I often reported, my family has been several generations and some sixty years Democrats.  None of us have never failed to vote for Democrats.

But if Obama is the nominee, we are all of us going for McCain, notwithstanding even Clinton endorsements.

We have always believed that Obama has potential.  But he is clearly not ready for the presidency--not just yet, anyway.

Last night's debate more than proved why.

they both did pretty good..i liked Hillary's opening statements vs. Baracks. Although, I believe Barack was very well spoken and he kept his cool under fire from the hard questions...

--I 'm watching it right now cause i missed it last night.

they both sound really good. and are answering really well...man i dont know how any one could decide between the two.

It's easy to do well in a debate when you've got both the moderators in your pocket.

I said this in a comment on another diary, but it bears repeating: if ANY Democrat condones the way last night's debate was conducted, we're condoning the same bullshit in the fall.  And that goes for Hillary Clinton too.  Do you really think that Charles Gibson will abstain from giving McCain his tongue-bath long enough to ask him any difficult questions?  No, the two of them will pile on to Hillary.  They'll ask her about Monica, Paula Jones, cookies and tea, Tuzla, NAFTA, Bill Clinton's presidential pardons, Bill Clinton's speaking fees, and any other piece of tabloid fodder they can.  She'll get crushed, because -- in case you haven't noticed -- the media have a huge and ongoing crush on McCain.  

I support Obama, but I'll vote for Clinton if she's the nominee.  The way this debate was conducted is an affront to all Democrats.  This is a place where we need to be united.  The policy differences between our two candidates are minimal; but if we give ABC a pass on what happened last night, the Democratic candidate -- whoever it is -- is screwed in the fall.  

Yes, she was at her best last night in terms of presence.  But she also looked like the little girl perfectly delighted that her brother was getting really scolded and jumped on by Big Daddy.  (echos of her real past?).  What did she gain by it?  What did she gain by trundling out the grotesque Ayers charge and Farrahkan?  Niente, nada, nichts.  She won't be the nominee because the campaign was hers to loose and because of her arrogance and poor judgment, lose it she has.  SO...

You spout a couple dozen paragraphs of faux facts based on opinion pieces and a local TV focus group of a couple dozen people whose selection is questionable and whose numbers are statistically insignificant?  That's just pathetically desperate.

must be deaf and blind.

Way to go Senator Clinton! Great with policy as always!