MyDD :: "Bitter" Voters Not Souring on Obama

"Bitter" Voters Not Souring on Obama

by Jonathan Singer, Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 05:19:26 PM EST

With Barack Obama leading Hillary Clinton nationally by 8 points in the latest Gallup poll and 10 points in the latest Washington Post/ABC News poll, it sure doesn't look like all of the hubbub surrounding Obama's admittedly poorly phrased comments released last Friday is panning out into real problems for Obama. In fact, digging more deeply into the latest Gallup numbers, it doesn't even look like Obama has been hurt among so-called "bitter" voters.

As Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton prepare for Wednesday night's debate in Philadelphia, Gallup's daily tracking indicates that Obama's support has yet to suffer following his widely reported remarks about small-town voters being "bitter." The remarks were first reported on April 11.

[...]

Democratic voters at the lower end of the economic spectrum have disproportionately backed Clinton for the nomination, but her standing among these voters has not changed since Obama's remarks. Obama's support among voters making $24,000 or less a year has shown a slight, but not statistically significant, drop of three percentage points in recent days.

If you look at the other metrics provided by Gallup as well -- education, religion and race -- again there is no indication that Obama's comments actually hurt him among the group he was supposed to have offended. And in fact, according to ABC News, Obama just today received a key endorsement that directly undercuts suggestions of his weakness among these voters.

Timing is everything in politics and, for Barack Obama's campaign, today's endorsement by the American Hunters and Shooters Association showed both good and bad timing.

[...]

"Sen. Obama will be a strong voice an unabashed voice for America's hunters and shooters and it is with great pleasure that we endorse his candidacy," President of the Association Ray Schoenke said, citing Obama's commitment to the traditions of gun ownership.

[...]

"We believe recent attacks on Sen. Obama's stand on the 2nd amendment and his commitment to the hunting and shooting heritages are unfair."

For all of the talk from the inside the Beltway crew -- folks, by the way, that don't live in small towns and whose validity in speaking for small town Americans is at best questionable -- that Barack Obama had forever lost a significant segment of the American public as a result of his comments released on Friday, it sure doesn't look like there's much actual evidence that this is the case -- and in fact there sure seems to be evidence that it's not the case.

Tags: Barack Obama, Democratic Primaries (all tags)

Permalink :: 68 Comments :: Post a Comment

Re: "Bitter" Voters Not Souring on Obama (2.00 / 0)

If he's leading by 8 pts. doesn't that mean that his support has declined? Didn't he have a bigger lead before?

No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!

by Ga6thDem on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 05:25:45 PM EST

Re: "Bitter" Voters Not Souring on Obama (none / 0)

He was leading by 10 before in Gallup if I remember correctly so it is hardly a meaningful decline. If there were to be a trend in the coming days/week that it continued we can talk about a decline.

What this does show is that the comments, which have been widely reported did not have the explosive impact that many of the doomsayers suggested the would.

If it were true that Obama had "lost those voters forever" it would have been noticeable in these polls.

Oh Mammy Dear, we're all mad over here livin' in America

by JDF on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 05:30:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Poll Time Frame (none / 0)

This poll was conducted April 10-13. Cling-gate was posted on Friday afternoon, April 11 - and became headline news on Sat and Sun.

There hasn't been sufficient time to guage the impact.

I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.

by KnowVox on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 05:43:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Poll Time Frame (none / 0)

I'm must have missed something, what is "Cling-gate?"

by sharpfork on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 06:04:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Bitter" Voters Not Souring on Obama (none / 0)

meaningful decline in meaningless poll? This is like a public opinion poll of all of Europe. It tells us a whole lot of nothing.

by hctb on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 06:12:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Compound interest (none / 0)

will bite us all in the general. Hillary, as well as the media, has gone very easy on Obama. If he wins the nomination, the sequel is likely to not be as forgiving- IMHO. But its all just opinion anymore, isn't it?

by linc on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 05:28:56 PM EST

It is nice to see (2.00 / 0)

someone admitting that. I am sick of the people who say, with profound confidence, that they KNOW what is going to happen. None of us do- the best we can do is say what we think is going to happen in a reasonable tone, have a discussion and then see where things eventually wind up.

But where would the fun be without all of the bile and hatred that gets spewed... or all of the certainty that people have, seeming to say "MY CANDIDATE can win and yours is the suck!!!!"

Oh Mammy Dear, we're all mad over here livin' in America

by JDF on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 05:32:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Compound interest (2.00 / 1)

PPPPHT!!! I just spit coffee on my screen...

You can't be serious!!! If the media were such friends to Obama, why did they run the Wright story ad nauseum for 2 weeks... why did they run the totally contrived "bittergate" story ad nauseum until the people of the US said enough? Has there even been one positive story about Obama?

Why did the AP give John McCain a standing ovation and doughnuts while calling Barack Obama, "Obama bin Laden"... Please....

As for Hillary, well, she's thrown the kitchen sink, the toilet, and the showerhead at him... I'm sure there is more to come... About all that's left is calling him a "dirty commie", which may be coming soon...

Obama has had to take on a hostile media, Hillary Clinton, John McCain, the right wing noise machine and even the government of Canada all at the same time! Talk about being under fire... Hillary's gaffes get 1/10th of the negative attention as Obama's do... and, yes, there will be lots of gaffes by everyone...

Easy on Obama... give me a break...

"This was never part of our arrangement, Specter" "I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!" "This deal keeps getting worse all the time!"

by LordMike on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 05:38:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You must (2.00 / 0)

not watch Keith Olbermann and you must have missed the whole Bosnia thing and the media's obsession with Bill and the media spending two weeks talking about Hillary's tears and two weeks about her cleavage and a while about her likability and the last month when every pundit said her campaign was dead and that she was really only staying in the race for self-interest.... and on... and on...

There are several actual studies out there that indicate the media bias in this race is heavily in Obama's favor. You just don't see it because you probably believe everything you are told about Clinton.

by linc on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 05:45:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You must (2.00 / 0)

I don't watch much MSNBC, but I do see a lot more Fox News than I would like, and Hillary is like their best friend there... ABC News has also been a big fan of Hillary, and the leading attack dog against Obama. CBS news is a joke, but CNN is also VERY pro-Clinton, I've noticed through the primaries...

MSNBC's Joe Scarborough and Pat Buchannan are also very pro-Clinton... I have not seen ONE positive Headline for Obama since February...

"This was never part of our arrangement, Specter" "I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!" "This deal keeps getting worse all the time!"

by LordMike on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 05:48:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Joe and Pat (none / 0)

every democrat in the world listens to what they say!

by linc on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 06:40:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You must (none / 0)

Those were the good old days....BOSNIAGATE!

"I am standing with Barack Obama to say, `Yes, we can!'" Hillary Clinton 6/7/08

by feliks on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 06:25:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Need a Pillow? (none / 0)

Perhaps you didn't see the SNL skit:

http://www.redlasso.com/ClipPlayer.aspx? id=ff2e5a67-b814-459a-9202-41a6479641b6

I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.

by KnowVox on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 05:46:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Need a Pillow? (2.00 / 1)

Quick, name ONE positive headline for Obama in the last month in a half?

Your pillow moment was the turning point in the media... suddenly, after that little skit, it became Hillary good, Obama bad... and he's been targetted for destruction by the media ever since...

Thanks for the link, though... I never got a chance to see the skit...

"This was never part of our arrangement, Specter" "I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!" "This deal keeps getting worse all the time!"

by LordMike on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 05:50:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Need a Pillow? (2.00 / 1)

Quick, even his most ardent supporters can't name ONE ACCOMPLISHMENT:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzFOOcEQt P0

I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.

by KnowVox on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 05:53:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Need a Pillow? (2.00 / 1)

Weren't you just trying to claim that the media has been too soft on Obama?

by noop on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 06:08:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The story follows the leader (2.00 / 1)

When Clinton was the frontrunner she received the most scrutiny from the media. Once Obama took the lead he became the focus of their attention. The fact is that the media is always harder on the frontrunner because it's in their best interests to keep the fight going.

Obama has spent the last few months fighting a three-front war against the Clintons, McCain, and the media. While I feel that Clinton crossed the line on several occasions, I think that the whole experience has been positive on balance. Obama has proven that he can take the heat and handle himself well. However, I think that the Democrats need to stop fighting each other soon.

We really need to turn our attention to the only person getting a free ride. John McCain has spent the last few months fumbling everything from national security to the economy, and the media hasn't called him on anything. The media would have crucified Obama or Clinton for making those kinds of mistakes. Personally, I'd like to see the light of scrutiny pointed in McCain's direction.

by noop on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 06:05:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Compound interest (2.00 / 0)

Hillary has gone easy on him? In what parallel universe?

"I am standing with Barack Obama to say, `Yes, we can!'" Hillary Clinton 6/7/08

by feliks on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 06:24:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I wondered if Clinton let the dawgs out too early (2.00 / 1)

I know she felt like she needed something big. And this seemed right...even bumper sticker worthy...but almost as soon as it surfaced many people seemed to agree with Obama...and it also seemed likely that the only ones really offended (as opposed to fake indignation from HRC and her supporters) would be GOPers.

I have been ridiculed by many here b/c I have stressed that what has been annoying about this whole Bittergate is that Hillary is lying. There is ample evidence that Obama was simply (perhaps poorly in that one moment) stating a farily common democratic talking point.

We have comments from all sorts of folks that are very similar. I even opined in a diary that HRC had said something of the same nature.

Did I ever, for the life of me, think that she would be called out for telling Bill to screw Reagan Democrats? No. But apparently, this is the story:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/04/16 /hillary-clinton-on-workin_n_97017.html

We don't need a thinker. We need a doer: someone who'll act without considering the consequences. (H.J. Simpson)

by Newcomer on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 05:31:16 PM EST

Re: I wondered if Clinton let the dawgs out too ea (2.00 / 0)

Well, her M.O. is to release something just before the primary to give little time for a decent response...

Bittergate came too early... Don't worry, she'll come up with something tomorrow or Friday...

"This was never part of our arrangement, Specter" "I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!" "This deal keeps getting worse all the time!"

by LordMike on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 05:40:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I wondered if Clinton let the dawgs out too ea (2.00 / 1)

You're right. She will "expose" something 3 days before the primary and it will occupy the newscycles spanning that time. Obama must be ready for this, as he seems to be ready for everything else thrown at him. Who knows, maybe he jumps first this time?

by haystax calhoun on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 05:50:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I wondered if Clinton let the dawgs out too ea (2.00 / 1)

That's what I'm hoping... If the Obama campaign is smart, they'll seize the initiative on this one... we'll see if they do!

Maybe, they'll get something to work with from the debate tonight!

"This was never part of our arrangement, Specter" "I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!" "This deal keeps getting worse all the time!"

by LordMike on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 05:52:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I wondered if Clinton let the dawgs out too ea (2.00 / 1)

Here's what they do....Obama runs this ad 3 days before Penn:

Fade up from black

Image: Grainy black and white photo, a deserted factory, with a "Closed" signs over the door.

Cross-fade to image: Men standing in long line, outside unemployment office...

Music fade up, ominous dark orchestra chords

Voice Over begins(low masculine): All over Pennsylvania and the rust belt, free trade policies like NAFTA have closed factory, shipped jobs overseas, shattered lives...

Fade to picture of Bill and Hillary on the stump

Voice Over: Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton in their autobiographies BOTH claim NAFTA as a major accomplishment of the Clinton presidency.
(Source: NY Times articles )

Fade to picture of Hillary alone

Voice Over: Now campaigning in Pennsylvania, Hillary Clinton says she was against it all along?

Voice Over: But the NY Times sites secret meetings Hillary Clinton held in the 90s selling NAFTA to Elite Business Leaders (Source NY Times article.)

Music, ominous swell

Cross-fade to image of map of Colombia.

Voice over: Today, there is new trade pact with Colombia being pushed through Congress by the same interests that supported NAFTA.

Fade to image of Bill Clinton speaking before business type meeting

Voice Over: Bill Clinton was paid over $800,000 by a Colombian business group to speak on behalf of this new trade pact.
(Source NY Times, Gold International paid Clinton 800K....)

Fade to Image of Mark Penn

Voice Over: Recently it's been revealed, Hillary Clinton's chief strategist was the main lobbyist for this trade pact, paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to lobby politicians vote for this bill
(Source NY Times: Penn wears multiple hats)

Fade back to image of Hillary on the stump.

Voice Over: Now, Hillary Clinton claims she is against this Colombian trade pact, but hasn't she said she was against NAFTA at the same time she was supporting it behind closed doors?

Fade back to image of close factory

Voice Over: What are she and her elite advisors really supporting behind closed doors this time?

Fade to black

Support the separation of Church and State: Vote YES on WA R-71!

by WashStateBlue on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 06:17:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I wondered if Clinton let the dawgs out too ea (none / 0)

Most excellent, WashStateBlue.

I'd give you some mojo, but I was "disenfranchised" by the late-night Troll-Rate Abusing Hillary Thugs last night.

Cuz they love free speech (when they are talking, at least)

;)

by jwolf on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:29:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Bitter" Voters Not Souring on Obama (2.00 / 1)

I'm still thinking "Kindergarden-gate" is the biggee here, it's just not being worked hard enough in the diaries anymore.

"If he's leading by 8 pts. doesn't that mean that his support has declined? Didn't he have a bigger lead before?"

Yes, and it will dip when she wins PA and it will jump back when he crushes her in NC...

back and forth?

But, tell me, at what point does Hillary overtake him again?

When DOES she ever win back that 20 point lead she had at one time?

If Bitter-Gate and Wright-Gate need anymore coverage, maybe Campaign Clinton can get them written on the moon with a Laser Beam?

Support the separation of Church and State: Vote YES on WA R-71!

by WashStateBlue on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 05:31:48 PM EST

Re: "Bitter" Voters Not Souring on Obama (2.00 / 0)

We don't know that much from polls anymore. From the word on the street there is a lot of rethinking on whether he can win the GE. Also the recent attacks he's made on Hillary are overtly sexist, and girls are getting even more pissed at him. This trying to prove he isn't elitist cause he isn't rich doesn't hold water, and those who defend him by claiming he's right about blue-collar America isn't helping him look more in touch. Michele out there claiming we all 'need' him is also rather elite and not a little bit offensive. He has the ring of a loser, but maybe it's too late and he'll get the nom and lose in the fall. Many of his early voters had a hard time choosing between him and McCain in the first place. I find it hard to trust polls, I'd like to see the questions they ask and how they're phrased. To me it looks like a big mess right now, with lots of new questions opening up about who he is and how he sees himself. I do not want another king, and if his Iraq exit plan is as flawed as it now seems, maybe John McCain wouldn't be a lot worse. I'd rather see Bracak living in the white house, but this Hillary supporter has only one vote, and it may not be enough to put him there.

just say it: Medicare for All

by anna shane on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 05:37:53 PM EST

Re: "Bitter" Voters Not Souring on Obama (2.00 / 1)

"Also the recent attacks he's made on Hillary are overtly sexist"

How so? If you are referring to the Annie Oakley comment, she brought that upon herself with her John Kerry hunting moment, reminiscing about how she hunted ducks on her Nintendo Entertainment System in the 80's....

She looked ridiculous trying to pander to the "beer and whiskey" crowd... It looked like she could barely help but to throw up...

I'm sorry, but she tried to make a right wing characiture out of Obama... he fired back with a charicature of his own... that's more than fair, considering her use of Republican framing against him, which is very hurtful to many democrats who object to the false "elitist" label that republicans have placed on us for so many years...

"This was never part of our arrangement, Specter" "I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!" "This deal keeps getting worse all the time!"

by LordMike on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 05:44:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

she brought it on herself? (none / 0)

she had it coming? Now why are those words so familiar? Of course I'm referring to annie, not to his 'bring out her claws' that he said earlier, or his dismissive, she's just someone's wife that his supporters loved and agreed with. One would think that he'd have the sense to know women can see him for themselves, and don't need to rely on spin to tell us what we've seen. That was over the top offensive. And he was chortling, could hardly contain his gleeful joy. Very unattractive.

just say it: Medicare for All

by anna shane on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 06:15:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: she brought it on herself? (none / 0)

Well, her calling him and "elitist snob" was pretty offensive, too... If she can dish it out, she certainly can take it, right?

"This was never part of our arrangement, Specter" "I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!" "This deal keeps getting worse all the time!"

by LordMike on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 09:28:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Bitter" Voters Not Souring on Obama (none / 0)

Pander to the beer and whiskey crowd? I think you should read her autobiography. she is pretty hunting & fishing etc. Not beer and whiskey maybe, but at least scotch.
It doesnt surprise me that Obama would say what he did (he doesnt seem like much of a listener and you would have to listen to her to know she is it sport). Ofcourse, this doesnt make him look any less an ass.
Except, oh wait, women arent supposed to like sporting. I always forget that in my "what it means to be a lady" handbook.

by hctb on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 06:19:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'll Drink to That (none / 0)

"Not beer and whiskey maybe, but at least scotch."

Not to mention Dom Perignon from a Hoity-Toity Glass. With a smug smile, no less.

You know, the "Blue-Collar Special"

DomDuDumDum

by jwolf on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:34:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'll Drink to That (none / 0)

This is actually when she is most appealing, with Chelsea?

When she is showing this side, I have to shut up with my girlfriend, whom, though she is stone cold Obama supporter, loves the strong mother image? If I say something negative about Hillary at this point, I better duck.

She should stick with this image?

Actually, if that DIP Mark Penn hadn't kept telling her to Out Macho the boys, perhaps
she would be winning?

But, Blue Collar? Banging down Boiler Makers?

Doesn't Chelsea work for some billion dollar hedge fund in NY?

Yeah, you walk into that job straight out of college without solid gold connections?

These folks ARE the Elite, and so is Obama, and to claim they aren't is just so much BS I can hardly stand it.

Support the separation of Church and State: Vote YES on WA R-71!

by WashStateBlue on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:50:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Bitter" Voters Not Souring on Obama (none / 0)

Kerry was a hunter, too... big deal...

I find it interesting that it's OK for Hillary to dish out insults, but if the victim reacts or responds, her supporters get all offended...

If she can dish it out, she CERTAINLY can take it...

"This was never part of our arrangement, Specter" "I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!" "This deal keeps getting worse all the time!"

by LordMike on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 09:29:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Bitter" Voters Not Souring on Obama (none / 0)

You say all of these things, but I have to wonder whether this is all just wishful thinking. There is simply no evidence other than your hunch or hope (undoubtedly colored by your support of Clinton/antipathy towards Obama).

Saying these kinds of things in the face of contrary evidence is eeriely reminiscent of the insistence on the part of the White House that things are going great in Iraq.

I mean, honestly, there is just a lot of clapping going on, and a vehement insistence that Tinkerbell is going to come back to life.

That's not the most diplomatic way to put it, but it is true.

by LarsThorwald on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 05:45:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

his spin (none / 0)

is that he's bagged the nom, he's surprised she still gets money and endorsements, that simply amazes him. Until Barack has won it it's not over, they are neck to neck in the popular vote, both need super's to close the deal, and only by keeping Florida out can he claim to be 'inevitable.' But your man can't close the deal, it isn't closed. Tinkerbell, as you like to refer to a grown woman running for president of the united states, isn't dead. For me, I'll wait for the PA vote. Maybe he'll win there, maybe he won't, but I'm not about to start accepting spin now. It's in his interest to make that claim, and with all his ads it might sink her, and it might not.

just say it: Medicare for All

by anna shane on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 06:20:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Heh, Heh, Heh - (none / 0)

We'll see.

by johnnygunn on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 05:38:51 PM EST

Re: "Bitter" Voters Not Souring on Obama (2.00 / 2)

Of course he is not.

Hillary's only chance of convincing the 75% of uncommitted superdelegates she will need to convince lies in a massive catastrophic implosion of Obama. A Muskie moment or, in the current parlance, a Macaca moment.

Obama's had one serious bit of hull damage with Wright. He stopped taking on water and righted his course. It was not the barrier to electability that Clinton privately promised it would be as recently as December.

So. If that didn't kill him, and if her narrow path depends on an implosion, then you go looking for an implosion.

The media is all too willing to play along. And thus we found ourselves in a situation where the Clinton campaign and lazy media were in a huff, parsing a few hard-to-hear sentences spoken at a private fundraiser and which are, by the way, essentially true.

She cannot wait for Obama to stumble on his own.
Thus, manufacturing outrage is the only remaining path for Clinton. That and name-callling that doesn't quite ring true (Obama as an "elitist" in the mold of Kerry and Obama is hilariously ill-fitting).

That the poor, stupid volk did not outrage on command as the Clinton campaign suggested they would or should is refreshing.

Assuming voters retain their ability to think for themselves, I think all these electability arguments are much ado over nothing.

by LarsThorwald on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 05:39:46 PM EST

essentially true? (none / 0)

that's what's killing him, his supporters do look down on blue collar Americans, do see them as prejudiced bitter people who cling to religion. It's inaccurate, you don't have to have a ivy league degree to enjoy helping your neighbors, to love your kids and play with them, to want them to have a better life than you, to enjoy friendships, to make the best of things and love life. it's a very unattractive opinion you think it right, and too arrogant and simplistic to have any 'truth' value, outside some poorly designed interview study on what's wrong with blue collar families. It's sad that so many of his supporters think he's better than working class Americans. i think he's just a guy. Michele may think I need his inspiration, but no, I don't, I really don't. She's wrong about me. I don't have a broken soul that needs him to fix it before he can fix the problems he may be elected to fix, thank you very much. I'm offended, you bet!!

just say it: Medicare for All

by anna shane on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 06:28:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: essentially true? (2.00 / 1)

This is incredibly offensive... Aren't a lot of barack's black supporters "working class"... heck, they are working class getting paid less to do the same job.

by CaptMorgan on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 06:55:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm offfensive? (none / 0)

You're funny professor captain morgan. Why don't you divide all those categories up and lecture me on where everyone belongs? Then you can tell me once more how exactly right Barack was to say what he did to who you tell me he was speaking about?

just say it: Medicare for All

by anna shane on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:01:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yeah, you are offfensive (none / 0)

"...his supporters do look down on blue collar Americans, do see them as prejudiced bitter people who cling to religion." Excuse me...who is lecturing who? Who is painting with a broad brush? Give me a break.

by jwolf on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:40:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

if they agree that (none / 0)

what he said is essentially true, that's what they're saying. If you think he's right, own it. If you think he's wrong, say so. I suppose some of his supporters think he's wrong? Are you one of them? If so, please excuse me for lumping you in with the supporters who defend his remark as true.

just say it: Medicare for All

by anna shane on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:44:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Bitter" Voters Not Souring on Obama (none / 0)

This is sorta a bit of denial, it's a GE problem much more than a primary problem; Whats the Matter with Kansas was a best seller among us.

by Jerome Armstrong on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 05:46:28 PM EST

Re: "Bitter" Voters Not Souring on Obama (none / 0)

Saw you in Kansas at the Dole Institute last year. Damn those Kansans! LOL!

I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.

by KnowVox on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 05:48:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Bitter" Voters Not Souring on Obama (2.00 / 1)

Um... are any kerry voters going to defect to McCain?

Of course not... so we win because we will turnout a ton of new voters to add to them

by CaptMorgan on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 06:05:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

no? (none / 0)

don't count on it, Kerry was running against Bush. Many of Barack's early voters had a hard time deciding between him and McCain in the first place. Barack's exit Iraq plan is not comprehensive, it does not include contractors, private armies, and Iraq's who've helped us, and he's stated he doesn't need foreign policy advice when he should have had blue collar Americans advise too. Do not count on Kerry's voters voting for Barack. Many of the women he's been offending voted for Kerry anyway. if he want my vote, and I voted for Kerry, he'd best adopt her insurance plan and her Iraq exit plan. If he wants my vote he'll accept all debate invitations, not back out of any, and he'll tell us what he means to do to get out of Iraq, I've already heard how careful he'll be, I want to know more or who knows who I'll vote for, can't count on me if he can't end the war.

just say it: Medicare for All

by anna shane on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 06:35:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: no? (2.00 / 0)

It would be completely irresponsible for any canidate to give a comprehensive withdrawal plan prior to taking office. They must review all the information they are not currently privy to once elected and assess the situation with their military/foreign affairs advisors before charting a specific course of action

this goes for hillary or barack

by CaptMorgan on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 06:57:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

that's the spin, but (none / 0)

(1) need to say who will be brought out

(2) need to be clear there will be no going back in

(3) need to be clear that if it gets bloodier, the exit will keep exiting, cause it will get bloodier before it's less bloody

(4) need to outlaw private armies

(5) need to cancel no-bid contracts and order out contractors

(6) diplomacy will only work when we don't have a financial stake there, no loot for us.

(7) need to name policy advisors and what they advise, need to name your diplomatic force and where they'll go

You can have a plan that's worthless if you don't have the experienced professionals who can work round the clock to get the job done.

By the way, Obama says he doesn't need foreign policy advice, that's an area where he's quite the expert already. (he thought there were WMD in Iraq - I didn't, and he thinks my soul needs fixing?)

just say it: Medicare for All

by anna shane on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:17:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Bitter" Voters Not Souring on Obama (2.00 / 1)

Jerome, don't you think some of that will be ameliorated when Obama has all the elected democrats at his back, in the fall in the GE?

Sebilius, et all, on the stump with him?

IMHO, much better this all came out now, and, whereas Wright_Gate was really a problem and still will be run endlessly in the fall, this is REALLY a mixed blessing? Yeah, he said "Bitter" instead of frustrated, but, you just said it: What's the Matter with Kansas?

When do we as Democrats not stand behind our candidates, when the FINALLY step up and tell the truth?

My God, one candidate actually challenges conventional wisdom, that you can "tell the truth" to the people, the other goes in and does Boilmakers to prove her bonifides to the middle class?

Support the separation of Church and State: Vote YES on WA R-71!

by WashStateBlue on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 06:09:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Rasmussen--Obama edging down (none / 0)

Obama is dropping again as his favorable number is only 47/51. Now the other polls show a slight Obama lead, so the difference is in the favorables.

It appears perhaps some of Hillary's attacks on Obama are working, but she drags herself down as well and only helps McCain.

by mikelow1885 on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 05:49:33 PM EST

Re: Rasmussen--Obama edging down (none / 0)

Rasmussen is the best poll out there. I trust it more than the RCP average.

by dMarx on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 06:02:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hillary hasn't been (none / 0)

attacking him, she's raised concerns about how his remark will be perceived and she's named his remarks elitist, but a whole lot of people were offended by his remarks and didn't need her to point out why his remarks are offensive. obama has attacked himself. I get tired of her being blamed for his mistakes. She didn't force him to say what he did, and there was no reason for her to keep quiet, take the high road and make sure we lose the GE? That would be irresponsible. He sure did attack her though, and quite unpleasantly. There is no doubt that he's intending to beat her.

just say it: Medicare for All

by anna shane on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 06:51:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary hasn't been (none / 0)

Thank you. Finally someone who understands how politics works. I'm getting tired of people blaming Hillary for everything they don't like.

He has been beating up on her from the beginning. If he thinks Hillary has been hard on him, then he knows nothing of rough campaigning.

Thank you, anna shane, for your post. ~thumbs up~

by stefystef on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:15:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Real elitism (2.00 / 2)

Who I find elitist are the rich DC bobbleheads that think rural voters are such rubes that they'd vote for somebody based on their bowling handicap, their preference for OJ over coffee, or stupid crap like this.

Guess what -- people aren't so stupid that they're going to decide their vote based on who made some verbal gaffe or inadvertently placed a preposition at the end of a sentence.

Conduct your own interview of Sarah Palin!

by fwiffo3 on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 05:51:45 PM EST

Re: Real elitism (none / 0)

they'll vote on solutions to problems, and a record of public service to those things that matter to working Americans? Great news, I thought it was going to be on who can heal the broken souls of Americans, who can inspire us the most, and who we "need." Thank goodness, in this case it'll be the girl candidate.

just say it: Medicare for All

by anna shane on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 06:38:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama Bitch Slapped Middle America (none / 0)

Well liberals agree with Obama, so they don't care about Bittergate.

It is the white working class voters that will determine this election that Bittergate hurts.

It may not have much of an impact against Hillary "Sniper Target" Clinton but I think in the GE election we are looking at a Willie Horton level liability.

Don't get me wrong, Obama is still a very strong candidate. But this hurts him bad.

by dMarx on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 06:00:50 PM EST

Re: Obama Bitch Slapped Middle America (2.00 / 0)

Um.. if African-Americans don't turnout that will cost us the election as well.. of course I don't see anyone talking about this.

by CaptMorgan on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 06:07:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama Bitch (none / 0)

Oh there are many ways for our party to again sink and get us stuck with McCain. If McCain wins I hope we all get together and demand smarter people run the party. Yes, and who cares who's to blame, Barack for playing her victim to rave reviews, or someone in Hillary's campaign mentioning his race, his history of cocaine experimentation, his bigoted pastor, his connection with a Chicago slumlord, his opinions about why many but not all blue collar workers favor her over him. Sure, black voters might be pissed enough if he doesn't get the nom to stay home, especially if he is a sore loser. The difference is that Obama is offending me, not one of his surrogates, he's doing it all by himself. And he thinks he's right. I had Bush, and I'm not saying Barack is Bush, but I had one know-it-all president, and I'd like someone to just do it like a job.

just say it: Medicare for All

by anna shane on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 06:45:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Bitch (2.00 / 0)

Well Hillary is offending me with her words. Apparently because I'm an educated liberal professional I don't need a president and I don't count.

A lot of black people are very upset with Hillary as well

But you know what? We can all get over ourselves...

Google peak oil.. Barack or Hillary must be president.. our very civilization is at stake

by CaptMorgan on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 06:59:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

his supporters really (none / 0)

need to think that through, so many of his early voters in mainly white states had a hard time deciding between him and McCain, how I have no idea, but that's what the exit polls said. So, why is he making annie jokes and mocking her, does he thinks Maureen Dowd needs some competition, does he thinks girls find that funny? If he's not smart enough to win my vote he doesn't deserve it. Doesn't mean I won't hold my nose and vote for him if he's the nom, but that won't make him a winner, he'll need a lot more than this girl voting for him. I would so much like to like him, and I so do not like him. But maybe he'll adopt her universal coverage plan to win me, or her comprehensive exit Iraq plan that also includes contractors and private armies. That would be a help. If he were only offensive but had some great plans, I'd vote for him without holding my nose. I'd even send him money and write diaries on his great universal coverage plan and his great exit Iraq plan. But it looks like I'll have to need him and let him fix my broken soul before he'll get started fixing anything and frankly that makes McCain seem less weird.

just say it: Medicare for All

by anna shane on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:09:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Bitch (none / 0)

I'm black and I'm not upset with Hillary.
Nor are the black people I know and many are supporting Obama and many are supporting Hillary.

If Hillary is able to win the nomination (and she still can), African Americans will vote for her. But more important, Hispanics will vote for her over Obama and McCain. This means A LOT in Texas and Florida and California (all the Southwest). This is the GROWING ethnic segment in America and everyone is ignoring them. Probably because they are voting for Hillary in large numbers and no one wants to talk about Hillary's votes.

I think the Obama "bitter" comments have meant more than the polls are saying. I personally think the polls are reaching the same people over and over. I read lots of blogs and news groups and many people are upset about Obama and they are starting to see through him.

by stefystef on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:07:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Bitter" Voters Not Souring on Obama (2.00 / 1)

I would just like to say that the title of this post is awesome. Very clever. I agree with what Jerome said above (that this is most likely more of a GE issue than a primary one) but I also think it could potentially turn into a net positive for Obama if he plays his cards right and uses this controversy as a way to engage voters that might not traditionally be receptive to his message. We'll see.

And so, may evil beware and may good dress warmly and eat lots of fresh vegetables.

by thatpurplestuff on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 06:13:08 PM EST

Re: "Bitter" Voters Not Souring on Obama (none / 0)

Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton are both damaged goods. James H. Webb is the man to take on John Keating McCain. A Draft Webb movement would be a beautiful thing.

by elgringoviejo on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 06:25:43 PM EST

I could have told you this (none / 0)

Five days ago.

by nwgates on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 06:32:44 PM EST

Re: "Bitter" Voters Not Souring on Obama (none / 0)

Bitter dem voters may "cling" to BO, but he's lost the indies and mod reps.

It's all about the GE, folks. There is too much fresh ammo for the GOP to manipulate and distort. They'll shred him in the fall.

Remember. They don't care if you call them racist (Morning Joe Scarborough).

by bird52 on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 06:48:56 PM EST

Re: "Bitter" Voters Not Souring on Obama (none / 0)

And, Bird, Hillarys numbers keep falling and falling and falling.....

The Republic noise machine is keeping their powder dry against Bill and Hill, but it will make Shock and Awe look like a cakewalk.

Just one ad of McCain in the Hanoi Hilton, crossfading to the video of Hillary strolling across the Tarmac in Bosnia with this voice over tagline:

"Who do you want as Commander in Chief?

The man who spent 5 years in torture for his country and his brother in arms?

Or someone that can't tell Sniper Fire from a Sunny day....."

The most delusional thing the Clinton supporters keep floating is that SOMEHOW there will be more ammo, as you say, against Obama then Hillay...

Different Ammo, but plenty for both candidates.

Support the separation of Church and State: Vote YES on WA R-71!

by WashStateBlue on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:08:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Bitter" Voters Not Souring on Obama (none / 0)

Hillary is wounded even worse than Obama. Draft Jim Webb.

by elgringoviejo on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:57:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Bitter" Voters Not Souring on Obama (none / 0)

It's not bitter...

Guys, we do all know that it wasn't the "bitter" word that was offensive or even that he said folks were bitter. They are, I am. It's a given.

I thought that this article in Salon really captured what the real issues are both with that comment and the two candidates and the Democratic party as a whole.

by carrieboberry on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 08:19:07 AM EST

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