Florida Matters!

I grew up in a little suburb in Michigan. Wedged between Detroit and Ann Arbor, Plymouth was and is still an enclave of wealthy, mostly white Americans, but this was contrasted by the remarkable diversity of African-Americans, Indians (the ones from Asia), and Muslim immigrants. At the age of 17, I moved out of my parents house and started my higher education at a private college in a major urban center in Florida.

When the DNC made its declaration that the delegates of Florida and Michigan would not be seated, I balked. I think most people balked; there was no conceivable way that a Democrat could take the White House without at least being competitive in these two states, and there is no better way to shoot yourself in the foot than to alienate voters. I laughed at the fact that the Democratic Party managed to slight the only two states I had ever lived in, and thusly, slighted almost every person that I've met in my lifetime. I thought that the American Democratic Party, of all the political parties in the world, would be the least likely to surrender the voting rights of its members over political moves made between bloated party bigwigs, and over a process that punishes the only people who had no say in it: the voters.

But I guess that was before the era of Barack Obama.

Rasmussen Reports ran a poll in Florida that was released on Monday, which shows Barack Obama dramatically behind Republican John McCain in a General Election matchup.

The battle over Florida's convention delegates may be taking its toll on Barack Obama's prospects in the Sunshine State. For the second time in three months, John McCain enjoys a double digit lead over the Democratic frontrunner. The latest Rasmussen Reports telephone survey in Florida shows McCain attracting 53% of the vote while Obama earns 38%. Last month, amidst talk of a possible Florida revote, Obama had closed to within single digits of McCain. In February, however, Obama trailed McCain by sixteen points.

If McCain is matched against Hillary Clinton, the race is a toss-up--Clinton 45% McCain 44%.

Barack Obama's supporters have often made various claims about the man's standing in Florida and its causes. Either it's because of demographics, it's because of him agreeing not to campaign in the state, and it's definitely not because he threw a wrench into the Democratic process. Unfortunately, the numbers tell a different story, and what happened to Florida is a much longer and complicated story than he and his surrogated would have you believe--and further beyond this, Barack Obama is ruining his chances in this state if he is the Democratic nominee.

We'll start by going back to the bill in question which moved Florida's primary up.

Florida House Bill 537

Governor Charlie Crist today signed House Bill 537 that will establish a paper trail for all votes cast in Florida elections. The election-reform legislation will provide optical scan machines for counties that do not already have them for Election Day voting and early voting sites. The legislation also changes the date of Florida's presidential primary to the last Tuesday in January.

Now, if you know anything about Florida politics, you know there is no responsible way to make a case against Florida Democrats voting for a paper trail. This lack of a paper trail cost Al Gore the election in 2000 and kept Democrat Christine Jennings out of congress in 2006. This entire process reveals a shocking truth behind the DNC (and Barack Obama's) position on the matter: it is rooted around a bill that was a victory for Democracy and Florida Democrats who want their votes counted. There is no conceivable way that any conscionable Florida Democrat could have or should have voted against this bill.

Even further, the state Democratic Party has never treated this election as irrelevant. Florida Democrats statewide were implored to get out, vote, and make their voices heard. From makeitcountflorida.com:

The Party does not consider the January 29th election a "beauty contest" or a "straw poll." On January 29, 2008, there will be a fair and open primary election in Florida, which will provide for maximum voter participation -- calling it anything but an election is disrespectful and misleading.

In March, the Saint Petersburg Times issued a poll which established, incontrovertibly, that Florida Democrats want the primary to count, and would even be less likely to vote Democratic in November if the DNC chooses to stick to its guns and disenfranchise a record-breaking primary in this state.

Howard Dean and Barack Obama may insist Florida's Democratic presidential primary was meaningless, but a new poll shows Florida Democrats aren't buying it, and one in four may not back their party's nominee in November if Florida winds up with no voice in the nomination.

Not only do Florida Democrats say that the Democratic presidential contenders' boycott of their primary had little effect, but an overwhelming plurality want the officially meaningless results to count, a new St. Petersburg Times/Bay News 9 poll finds.

The poll also finds that, despite Barack Obama and Howard Dean's attempt to deflect criticism directed at them, only one in five find the Florida Democratic Party at fault for the Florida debacle. A staggering 25% of Florida Democrats are less likely to vote Democratic in November if the primary results are not counted.

Florida Democrats point the finger of blame for the primary debacle in several directions: 28 percent blame Republican leaders in the Legislature, 25 percent blame Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean, and 20 percent blame the Florida Democratic party.

More than three out of four Florida Democrats say it's "very important" that Florida's delegates count toward the nomination, and one in four said they would be less likely to support the ultimate Democratic nominee if Florida's delegates don't count.

Floridian Democrats want their delegates seated, they do NOT feel that the primary was in any way illegitimate (including the lack of campaigning--and furthermore, the only TV ad I ever saw here was for Obama), and the Democratic Party simply cannot afford to damage its chances in this state the way that elitist party bigwigs Donna Brazile, Barack Obama, and Howard Dean are promoting. It's politically irresponsible to the interests of Florida voters and to the Democratic Party in the fall; the proponents of intentionally slighting these voters for the sake of hurting Hillary Clinton ought to be ashamed of their abandonment of their values, their fellow Democrats, and their fellow Americans.

In the midst of all this, I am reminded that Hillary Clinton speaks for the voices of myself, my family, and my friends to be heard:

Democratic presidential hopeful Hillary Clinton warned Tuesday that it would be a "grave mistake" for the Democratic Party to refuse to seat Florida's delegates to the national convention this summer.

"I think it would be a grave mistake for the Democrats to disregard the highest turnout in primary history in Florida," Clinton said in response to questions following a speech to a joint meeting of The Associated Press, the American Society of Newspaper Editors and the Newspaper Association of America.

"I have called and will continue to call on the Democratic Party to make a decision that respects the votes of the people of Florida and gives those votes due consideration in seating the delegates that will go to the convention in Denver," she added.



Display:


Tip Jar (2.00 / 3)

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No candidacy is more important than the right to vote.
by hornplayer on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 12:43:20 PM EST

Re: Florida Matters! (none / 0)

Florida will be seated... this too will pass.

I personally think McCain is going to win Florida against either canidate.... and I also think it won't matter because I think both of our canidates will win ohio


by CaptMorgan on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 12:47:01 PM EST

McCain is definitely winning Florida (none / 0)

His demographics are incredibly strong there.  Senior citizens and hardline Republican Cuban exiles are the two strongest voting blocs.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 01:06:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

"Florida will be seated" (none / 0)

maybe to Obama's liking? That will just piss the people of FL off.


by soyousay on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 01:09:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It all depends ... (none / 0)

If Obama has the nomination sewn up by mid-summer anyway, then all but the most symbolic of penalities on the FL delegation will likely be dropped.

If, however, it's not sewn up then yes, I'd expect him to use his majority position in the credentials committee to penalize FL "just enough" to win the nomination. Since all the voting will be over by then, he'll already know exactly what "just enough" is.


by professor on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 02:29:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

nope (none / 0)

Hillary could win there just like Bill did.  She would also win PA and has a really good chance in OH.  Obama will lose all of them.  No red states will bail him out.


For Obama it now becomes: Faith, hope and CHANGE! And the greatest of these is Change!
by TeresaInPa on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 01:16:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Florida Matters! (2.00 / 0)

I am from florida and I can assure that if Obama is the nominee, Maccain is going to win here easily. It is very tough to win the general election without florida, therefore, congrats presidente John Maccain!


by darlene25 on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 12:50:46 PM EST

Pinning our hopes on Florida is a fool's errand (2.00 / 1)

Since drawing my attention, I have not been able to find anything redeeming about Florida's state government or its representatives.  

Steve Geller has only been snide and sarcastic in all the communications I've heard from him.  He only brought up a shift to the date of the primary as a mean-spirited response to Howard Dean.

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/4/2/12261 1/4662

The Florida Democratic Party has done almost nothing to help the Democratic cause.  Debbie Wasserman-Schultz (a Clinton superdelegate wouldn't even campaign on behalf of other Democrats because the neocon Republicans being challenged were her "friends."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steve-clem ons/venting-about-debbie-wass_b_93022.ht ml

It seems pretty evident that Gov. Crist, a McCain supporter, set up the early primary as a benefit to his candidate, with the side benefit of creating Democratic chaos.  In legitimizing Florida, the RNC is very possibly making more severe problems for themselves in coming elections because other Republican-controlled states are going to try and go earlier and earlier so they get more campaign coverage.

It's ironic that the Democratic campaign has gone on long enough that, so far, all the states that followed the rules have gotten a lot of money spent in their states and candidate attention from the Democrats.

Tying our destiny to Florida seems like it would be suicidal: how many times are we going to let them burn us?  Democrats need to stop relying on that place and start coming up with more creative solutions.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 01:04:32 PM EST

Re: Florida Matters! (none / 0)

It's pretty much a proven trend now that when he gets a chance to do some up close and personal retail campaigning in a state he does better. Would this be enough to overcome the demographic problems in Florida? I'm not sure, maybe. If you combine that with the fact that the my candidate or McCain voters taint all head to head polls right now perhaps, but it's hardly a sure thing.

I also believe though that any democrat that hangs their general election strategy on winning Florida, or more broadly the old win two of Florida/Ohio/Pennsylvania, is taking a very risky chance. Florida has gone Republican for a while now, they have a popular Republican governor, Republicans are in the majority of most state officials. Democrats need to stop competing on a continually shrinking battlefield.


Proudly joining the legions of people and states that don't matter on May 20th.
by Obama Independent on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 01:06:39 PM EST

Considering that Obama hasn't even (none / 0)

campaigned in Florida yet,I'm pleased to see that he's even on the radar there.  Wait until he gets there and starts talking to the people.  Enjoy the moment, folks.


by MikeyB on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 01:09:56 PM EST

he's not that charning (none / 0)

and the demographics are already against him. He will lose Florida.
BTW he did campaign there.
For Obama it now becomes: Faith, hope and CHANGE! And the greatest of these is Change!
by TeresaInPa on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 01:13:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: he's not that charning (none / 0)

Did I say he was charning?  

He ran a few tv ads; that's advertising, not campaiging.  We've seen again and again how his presence in the states has powerful effect.  


by MikeyB on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 01:21:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Florida Matters! (2.00 / 1)

Despite your frequent insertion of Obama's name into your diary, absolutely nothing you wrote is or was under his control.  The DNC made the rules. The State of Florida and the Florida Democratic Party broke those rules.  End of story.

Now somehow you care to show how Barack Obama has sway in the Florida Legislature?  Or that he gets to tell the DNC what to do more so than Hillary Clinton?  It's a crock.

Here's what's going to happen.  Florida's delegates will be seated at the convention, and their votes will count.  But by that time, the nomination will have been decided and their primary will be as irrelevant as if they had followed the rules in the first place.


Nos causidicus Obama , ergo nos non suadeo
by rb608 on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 01:12:33 PM EST

bullshit (1.75 / 4)

he played hardball with the DNC and made sure there could not be a re-vote.


For Obama it now becomes: Faith, hope and CHANGE! And the greatest of these is Change!
by TeresaInPa on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 01:14:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: bullshit (2.00 / 1)

So, Hillary can't play hardball?  If not, why the hell should she be President?  Why is Obama's influence greater than Clinton's?  Hell, Bill and Hillary were the frigging life of the Party; you telling me that some freshman junior Senator from IL has more influence than the Clintons?  There's your bullshit for you.


Nos causidicus Obama , ergo nos non suadeo
by rb608 on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 01:21:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: bullshit (none / 0)

here's a little reality. If the DNC doesn't take a stand on MI and FL it will set a precedent that state level GoP will have free reign to try and create havoc in the dem primary elections. JUST LIKE THEY HAVE THIS YEAR. This is a way to keep GoP politics out of OUR internal election processes. Then again, it seems Hillary has little interest in staying away from GoP tricks...


by Djo on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:04:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Florida Matters! (2.00 / 1)

"In the midst of all this, I am reminded that Hillary Clinton speaks for the voices of myself, my family, and my friends to be heard."

Are you at all suspicious that her position in favor of seating the delegation only came about AFTER she won the state?  Don't you think Obama would have taken the same position if he won?

Also what evidence do you have to show that Obama played a pivotal role in stopping the delegations from being seated?  The only evidence I've seen of Obama arguing against revotes was in MI where he disagreed with a plan that would disqualify a demographic that skews heavily towards him -- Democrats who voted in the Republican primary not knowing that by doing so they would be disqualified from participating in a future Dem contest that had not yet even been contemplated.
As far as I am aware, the state Democratic party (including many Clinton supporters) said that a revote was logistically impossible regardless of the stances of the candidates.


by DreamsOfABlueNation on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 01:28:17 PM EST

Re: Florida Matters! (2.00 / 1)

Hillary supporters in FL said Obama was blocking it.

and really if Hillary supporters said it, how could you ever doubt it.


Obama said, as Bill beamed. "Thank you, President Clinton."
by TruthMatters on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 01:35:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Florida Matters! (none / 0)

I really don't care about motivations.  I care about actions.


No candidacy is more important than the right to vote.
by hornplayer on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 01:40:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Florida Matters! (none / 0)

So if Obama were to act to seat the delegates after Hillary dropped out motivated by the knowledge that their votes would not make a difference would you be OK with it?


by DreamsOfABlueNation on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 01:53:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Florida Matters! (none / 0)

If they're seated proportionately, according to how they voted, then yes.  It's just pathetic that in the Democratic Party we wait until the favored candidate gets his to let democracy matter.


No candidacy is more important than the right to vote.
by hornplayer on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 02:00:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Florida Matters! (none / 0)

Hillary waited until she got her votes before she "let democracy matter" for FL and MI, so that criticism works against her too.


by DreamsOfABlueNation on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 02:39:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Florida Matters! (none / 0)

I suggest you look to the actions of your state legislators then.


I'm riding the Low Road Express. Join me at www.lowroadexpress.com
by LtWorf on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 01:56:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Florida Matters! (none / 0)

Oh...you mean like, by looking at the bill they actually voted for, which included a paper trail?

Oh, that's right.  I already did that.  Thanks!


No candidacy is more important than the right to vote.
by hornplayer on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 01:59:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Florida Matters! (none / 0)

Then apparently you know where to place blame.  Give it a shot.


I'm riding the Low Road Express. Join me at www.lowroadexpress.com
by LtWorf on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 02:14:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Florida Matters! (none / 0)

You said you only care about action not motivation.  Under that philosophy it would not matter that the legislature was motivated by a desire for paper ballots--all that would matter is that they voted to break the rules.


by DreamsOfABlueNation on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 02:42:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Florida Matters! (2.00 / 1)

I appreciate the party-building in Florida and I really would love to see it go blue someday.  But I refuse to pin my hopes on Florida...again.  It's amazing that in 2004 the state went pretty convincingly red after everything that had happened in 2000.  If they couldn't call Bush on his BS then (Jeb and W), when exactly are they going to?

I'm not in favor of stripping states of their delegates, but there is no reasonable way to argue that the primary held this year was fairly contested.


by the mollusk on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 01:43:40 PM EST

Are they redoing the Florida primary (none / 0)

In which case Florida would matter?


by ReillyDiefenbach on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 01:53:29 PM EST

Re: Florida Matters! (none / 0)

Obama's theme of change promises a new electoral map.  

The Obama battleground:

New York, New Jersey, California, Virginia, Colorado, Michigan

Auto-forfeit: Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania

Good luck!


2004 swing state margins: PA-2%, OH-2%, IA-1%, WI-0.5%, MI-3%, FL-5%, NM-1%; Alienating 50% of the party is a luxury we can't afford.
by BPK80 on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 02:29:04 PM EST


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