I Agree With Alegre--This Thing Has Legs

I am an Obama supporter, but I have to agree with Alegre.  This "Bittergate" thing has legs.  

My modest suggestion that this will seriously cripple Obama is below the fold.

Alegre has posted several diaries saying that this thing has legs, and she has been cheered on by folks like KnowVox.

At first I pushed back against this, thinking, "There's no way the majority of voters believe this, that Obama is an 'elitist' (whatever that means).  The guy just paid off his student loans a few years ago!"

But then, as the weekend wore on, I realized that this thing really does have legs.  It is hurting Obama, according to one poll, the one conducted by ARG (as KnowVox has kept pointing out).  And I haven't seen any polling on it yet, but I am sure that this will only help Senator Clinton in Pennsylvania, in Indiana, and Nationally.  This is going to boost her numbers up, I am afraid.    

But I know the polls can be wrong.  

I just hope--as an Obama supporter--that Senator Clinton and supporters like Alegre don't keep hitting this thing over and over and over and over on the stump and in the blogs.  

Because I can't see anything more damaging to Obama than having Clinton and citizens with a real following on the internet (like Alegre or Taylor Marsh) keep bringing this up.  It's killing us, I imagine.  Just killing us.    

I just hope they don't keep going back and forth between this and Wright, back and forth, maybe occasionally touching on Rezko, because that would be horrible for us.  

We are all Democrats.  I beg you:  Please, whatever you do, please don't keep bringing this Bittergate Scandal up over and over and over and over again and again and again and again and again.  As often as you can, and as loudly as you can shout it.  Please don't.

Because it has real legs.  And continuing to highlight this repeatedly it would just help Clinton.  And hurt Obama.  

Please.  Don't.  Stop.    



Display:


The smugness never fails to amaze me... (2.00 / 1)

...truly, as far as Obama's supporters in this Primary are concerned.

All one has to do is go over to DKos and say one factual thing that, in the slightest (even most obtuse) way possible, might be perceived as something negative about Obama's campaign, now or in the GE, and the floodgates open up.

This sentiment has gotten more pervasive around here in recent weeks, too; and, without a doubt, IMHO, it is the most myopic and senseless tack a pragmatic Democrat can take this year.

As the saying goes: "Keep on doing what you're doing, and you'll keep on getting what you got." (Four more years of GOP rule.)

There are many major vulnerabilities in Obama's candidacy. Making light of them now does every Dem a disservice.

And, make no mistake about it, I will support the guy wholeheartedly if he wins he nomination. But, until then, disaffecting Hillary's supporters is one of the very most self-destructive things a Dem can do this year.

I'm just sayin' diarist....


by bobswern on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 11:48:55 PM EST

Re: The smugness never fails to amaze me... (2.00 / 1)

It can't possibly hurt any more than so-called "Democrats" writing diaries trashing Jimmy Carter, for god's sake. Don't think the anti-Obama hate is somehow not applicable.

Apparently now we can't be "smug" when a hatchet job fails to work out as planned. What is, pray tell, the proper reaction?


by upstate girl on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 11:58:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The smugness never fails to amaze me... (2.00 / 2)

Your right, bobswerm.  We should all follow your example of Franklinian reasonableness.  

I like this particular comment from you:

Maybe Obama should consider a cruise.  I hear the Mediterranean's beautiful!  Or, perhaps, a safari in Africa?  Ummmm...sorry, but IMHO I want a president that's a bit more knowledgable about world affairs than that which is evident by tourist visa stamps on his passport.

Thanks for setting me straight, man.  


by LarsThorwald on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 12:00:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

In the diarist's defense, (none / 0)

the diary is directed at a specific, prolific diarist who is shamelessly, relentlessly trying to elevate this non-issue (according to recent polls, anyway - see recent F&M PA poll diary) to a campaign-ending gaff.  This "issue" and the other campaign-ending "issues" have essentially come and gone, yet the diarist persists.  What else can be done but attack the diarist.


by MikeyB on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 12:09:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Well, you certainly hit the jackpot.... (2.00 / 3)

...as far as the Carter comments are concerned. See my quotes tonight on MyDD on this subject for reference.

I'm an avid Hillary supporter, and a huge Carter fan. I'll support and vote for Obama if he's our nominee, too.

That being said, I was a Carter field press secretary in his re-election campaign in 1980. (Michigan in the GE, Connecticut in the Primary.)

I wish people would stop dumping on the guy, whom IMHO, is the best elder statesman the Democratic Party's had in the past 100 years...perhaps forever.


by bobswern on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 12:26:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Bob, just my two cents here (none / 0)

And I'm trying to avoid being inflammatory here, but why do so many of the Clinton supporters talk about how they're being "disaffected" by Obama supporters, and we should all watch ourselves, after many Clinton supporters constantly degrade, mock, and belittle not only Obama supporters but the candidate and the ideals he represents to them?

Now, I'm not saying this doesn't work both ways. It does. I'm just saying Clinton supporters don't exactly have clean hands here either. Alegre has posted five diaries, FIVE, all about this silly "bitter" fiasco. That's not exactly building party unity. I fully realize Hillary supporters are necessary to ensure party victory in the fall should Obama win the nom. But if Hillary somehow wins, especially in the only seemingly likely scenario of super delegates overturning the pledged delegate count, you will definitely need us just as badly. For the sake of the party I wish the language on both sides would be a lot more genteel, but until it does it seems wrong to chide the Obama supporters for being a bit snarky in the face of such flagrant and shameless overexaggerations.


by TheSilverMonkey on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 02:34:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Please brier fox dont throw me in the briar patch! (2.00 / 2)


by bernardpliers on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 11:50:05 PM EST

Re: Please brier fox dont throw me in the briar pa (none / 0)

That's Brer Fox but I catch your drift.


by ellend818 on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 02:15:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Agree With Alegre--This Thing Has Legs (2.00 / 1)

Elitist is as common a way for GOP to defeat Democrats as gay this or gay that. They used it successfully against Dukakis and Kerry. Obama just handed them that on a silver platter. McCain is going to use it over and over and over. It's not about what Hilary will do.


by NY Writer on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 11:56:17 PM EST

Re: I Agree With Alegre--This Thing Has Legs (2.00 / 1)

I keep hearing the Republicans will use it, but I see an awful lot of diaries doing their work for them on a Democratic blog.


by upstate girl on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 11:59:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Agree With Alegre--This Thing Has Legs (1.50 / 2)

I don't want Democrats associated with what Obama said.  The Party is not invulnerable, you know.

I'm not about to go along with cling x 5.


by Trickster on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 12:22:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Agree With Alegre--This Thing Has Legs (1.00 / 1)

If you cared so much about the Democratic party, you'd quit spouting the right wing talking points for them throughout the entire site. You're like the guy that hits his wife and tells her its for her own good, that's the only way she's ever going to shape up enough so people like her.


by upstate girl on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 12:29:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Agree With Alegre--This Thing Has Legs (1.80 / 5)

So it's a right-wing talking point now to criticize someone saying that small-town folks cling to their religion because it's bitter?  

I guess I need to find a new party and give up the one I've been working for the last 40 years.

By the way, I posted on this site, DailyKos, and Open Left for 5 years, literally hundreds of up-ratings, and never one single troll rating on any of those sites--until the last few weeks when suddenly an influx of new people to this site have decided to troll-rate people who have differing opinions from their own.


by Trickster on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 12:35:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Agree With Alegre--This Thing Has Legs (1.00 / 1)

Maybe because this is the first time you've ever actively used Republican talking points repeatedly against a Democratic candidate.


by upstate girl on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 12:59:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Agree With Alegre--This Thing Has Legs (none / 0)

You just got troll rated again because you aren't expressing an opinion.. you are intentionally twisting BHO's comments by taking them out of context.


by CaptMorgan on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 01:39:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Agree With Alegre--This Thing Has Legs (2.00 / 1)

Aren't you the same person that said this earlier today, and I asked you to provide the context and you didn't respond?

If not, I apologize.

Either way, please provide the context of which you speak.  I'll be very interested in learning how exactly I twisted Obama's comments out of context by something that was quite similar to an exact quote and in fact is exactly what his words meant.


by Trickster on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 02:58:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm calling you out (1.66 / 3)

last nite you put up a nice-nice diary saying lets all get together and stop bashing eachother.  I for one did not beleive you because of your history.

Here you are less than 24 hours later, accusing someone of having "republican talking points" just because they are worried about what your candidate said and its impact on other races.

You are intolerant and unbelieveable now, totally. And you apparently think its no problem to be hippocritical and insulting to other people.  

Your bad, usg.


by 4justice on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 02:20:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm calling you out (none / 0)

So far anyone I've troll rated has been acting exactly like a troll. Insisting that Obama supporters are not only supposed to take constant abuse against their favored candidate, but also to listen to the same right wing talking points that McCain and the Republican party are using against him - out of supposed "Democrats". I'm not insulting  Clinton or her supporters, but trollish behavior is trollish behavior and there's no reason not to rate it as such.

You deny that branding Obama as an elitist because of words taken out of context - or the interpretation of a single word out of an entire speech - isn't a Republican talking point? Because McCain put out a statement to that exact effect.

I stand by my troll rating and my comparison that supposed Democrats that continually use right-wing talking points in order to bash either candidate are exactly like an abusive spouse - they claim its for your own good, but they're still causing damage.


by upstate girl on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 02:40:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm calling you out (1.50 / 2)

Who gives a hot fuck what McCain said?  McCain doesn't determine what I say when I open my mouth, neither positively nor negatively.  If you let McCain stop you from speaking just because he happens to say something you want to say, then you're his puppet the same as if you parroted him.

He doesn't control me at all.  My thinking is entirely independent of his.

Have you got anything else to say to justify the way you've been throwing troll ratings around left and right because people agree with the public statements of a Democratic candidate who is very much in the race with a chance to win?  Because that's a really bad justification.  It's thought control and speech control writ large.


by Trickster on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 03:03:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm calling you out (none / 0)

The last resort of trolls on a private message board is "thought control" and "censorship". I'm using the troll rating because you're trolling, that's what its there for. Save the hyperbole and additional faux outrage. You came in here to trash a candidate and that's all you care about doing.


by upstate girl on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 06:46:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm calling you out (1.50 / 2)

Yeah sure, right.

You're all about 'reconciliation' as long as we throw Hillary under the bus, right?

I have news for you.  Hillary's not stepping down for anyone, much less your elitist candidate.  He can pontificate and backtrack all he wants, but he has stepped in it NUMEROUS times during the primaries, and has proven to me that he will be a HORRIBLE candidate that will get his clock cleaned by the rethugs in the GE.

Hillary's going to win this thing.  Then maybe, MAYBE we'll let Obama be the VP.

If he learns to play nice and wait his turn.

////////////// //
"""Please, whatever you do, please don't keep bringing this Bittergate Scandal up over and over and over and over again and again and again and again and again.  As often as you can, and as loudly as you can shout it.  Please don't."""
/
///////////// ////

Yeah, good luck with allllll that.


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 03:16:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm calling you out (none / 0)

"We"? You clearly don't represent the majority of Democrats.

Your arrogance and entitlement are outstanding, your attitude is hostile, and it has zero place on a Democratic blog.


by upstate girl on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 06:48:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Agree With Alegre--This Thing Has Legs (2.00 / 1)

I agree, NYWriter.  I'm afraid that after a full pedal-to-the-floor, cram-this-down-your-throat beta testing of this issue by his Democratic opponent, if Obama is the nominee we will see a full pedal-to-the-floor, cram-this-down-your-throat roll-out testing of this issue by his Republican opponent.  

Except, in the GE, it will be broadcast over the airwaves (by a Republican) and it will all be new in voters' minds, who will view this all tabula rosa, having forgotten entirely that this was already broadcast over the airwaves (but by a Democrat).    


by LarsThorwald on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 12:06:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Agree With Alegre--This Thing Has Legs (none / 0)

Oh please... keep in mind we are going to have a HUGE money advantage.  Obama will be able to outspend mccain like 10-1


by CaptMorgan on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 01:43:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Agree With Alegre--This Thing Has Legs (none / 0)

The Republicans were going to use the elitist label anyway, duh.  And who can better defend against the label, the black guy from a single family household who worked in the Chicago projects en route to the Presidency, or the white woman brought up in a 2-parent household, went to the finest schools, lived as a first lady for 20 years, and had a household income of $109M over the last eight years?


by MikeyB on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 12:18:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Whew (none / 0)

Good thing Hillary doesn't look elitist.  I mean, it's not like she was married to the president, was handed a Senate position because of it, and then proceeded to become a multimillionaire after.


by ProgressiveDL on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 12:22:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Elitist ≠ gay. (none / 0)

Where are you coming from in this comment, NY Writer? What the hell does elitism have to do with one's sexuality?


by bobswern on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 12:28:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Agree With Alegre--This Thing Has Legs (1.00 / 1)

Why are Clinton supporters so afraid of what the Repugs will do?  We all know what the'll do, that doesn't mena they'll succeed. Stop being so AFRAID and try fighting back, after all isn't that why you support Hillary?


"In the primary you should vote with your heart, but in the general, you should vote with your head" Hillary's husband
by venician on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 01:07:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Agree With Alegre--This Thing Has Legs (2.00 / 2)

Yeah and those pictures they keep running over and over again of Obama feeding calves with milk bottles, and bowling in his suit and tie trying to fit in with the bitter gunners, and religious clingers, and the immigrant rejectors because they seem so different.  I mean those videos and pictures keep showing how uncomfortable he is in back woods settings. How many times are we going to have to see that. They show that film and those pictures over and over again to the point that I can't close my eyes to sleep without seeing them.  And then I see all those lofty thinking millionaire sanfranciscoins sitting there with their mouths hanging open in disbelief because they didn't know how Obama was going to handle the whole situation with those poor souls being ignored all the time by the govt. and all.  That keeps playing over and over and over again in my mind until I had to take some sleeping pills to help me get some rest before next Tuesday when I am gunna take my gun and go cutting through the churchyard cemetary to the voting booth to vote for Hillary.

I don't need to hear more.  Please Alegre don't write about it.  It is hard to read, I bet especially for the Obama supporters who don't like anykind of repitition and are always searching for hope and change.  To see them suffer so hurts my bleeding liberal heart.


by Scotch on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 12:04:22 AM EST

I added the snark tag (none / 0)

As I felt it was appropriate.


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 12:14:45 AM EST

This Thing Has Legs (2.00 / 0)

Because we are all concerned Dems.  This has been instructional for Obama (at least I hope it has been) because he really has to learn how to phrase his political thoughts so as not to alienate any demographic if he is to be the Dem. nominee.  He has put his foot in his mouth on numerous occasions, setting himself up for criticism.  Hillary has made mistakes in her public comments, too.  But I think this primary process overall is helping our candidates refine how they express their comments about what is going on in our country.  We need to hold both of their feet to the fire so they come out stronger during the run up against the Repubs. in the GE.


truthseeker2
by truthseeker2 on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 12:48:53 AM EST

Has Legs? (none / 0)

Why don't you wait till after the Pennsylvania primary to make that assertion.
If she wins by more 15 points, then I will agree with you that the thing has legs. Until then you are just spinning Media Hype.
My thoughts on McCain: I have no desire to let that idiot fulfill his desire to "Bomb Iran"
by Otaku Saru on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 12:49:53 AM EST

Also (none / 0)

I am more inclined to think that sniperGate, Penn-ColumbiaGate, Salary from Cayman-Islands-CorporationGate, and "Threshold of Commander in Chief"Gate, all have greater legs.


My thoughts on McCain: I have no desire to let that idiot fulfill his desire to "Bomb Iran"
by Otaku Saru on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 12:53:23 AM EST

Re: Also (1.50 / 2)

I would counter that PastorGATE, RezkoGATE, StupidwifewontstfuGATE, bitterGATE, flagpinGATE, pledgeofallegianceGATE, handoverheartGATE, bowlingGATE, bombpakistanGATE, limoGATE, weatherundergroundGATE and all the various mispokeGATES will have legs that will run much further...

The rethugs are going to eat him alive.  When they're done he won't be able to get elected dogcatcher.


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 03:22:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Also (none / 0)

"StupidwifewontstfuGATE"... Stay classy San Diego!


And so, may evil beware and may good dress warmly and eat lots of fresh vegetables.
by thatpurplestuff on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 04:10:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Agree With Alegre--This Thing Has Legs (none / 0)

Don't worry at all. In three primaries Senator Obama is doing fine. This will soon be over so relax. Thank you for your sincere post.


by Politicalslave on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 02:20:11 AM EST

Re: I Agree With Alegre--This Thing Has Legs (2.00 / 1)

I would posit that if people are taking the time to diaries specifically addressing Alegre's posts, then Alegre is clearly getting under someone's skin.  Usually, people are most disturbed by information that contains some modicum of truth.  I can only conclude, with my limited grasp of sociology & psychology, that continued reference to Barack Obama's explosive comments on small-town America is stimulating a major insecurity with his supporters.  


2004 swing state margins: PA-2%, OH-2%, IA-1%, WI-0.5%, MI-3%, FL-5%, NM-1%; Alienating 50% of the party is a luxury we can't afford.
by BPK80 on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 03:58:48 AM EST

Re: I Agree With Alegre--This Thing Has Legs (none / 0)

You ain't seen nothing yet. Hillary has nothing to lose. Tomorrow at the debate she'll open up another couple of fronts. Probably not Rezco but calling Obama out for his misleading purity on the lobbyist issue, lying direct mail, lack of ANY accomplishments in the Senate, lack of participation in anything bipartisan, anti-Israel foreign policy advisors, whatever.

He brought this on himself. For months he's been running a sub-rosa campaign to discredit Hillary - and it has succeeded. It's payback time for Hillary. My prediction (and you heard it here first) for the election:

Hillary's negatives are too high to win the general election. Obama will have shown that he is incapable of winning over the voters needed to succeed in the general election (midwest, Hispanic, lower socioeconomic status). Superdelegates will recognize this and react by abstaining on the first ballot at the convention. Someone will, on the second ballot, nominate a candidate who can win the election. That candidate will be John (I won't accept Vice President) Edwards. Furious deal-making will ensue, ballots will be taken, and an Edwards-Foreign policy guy ticket will eventually be nominated. Possible choices for Foreign policy guy may be Jim Webb (southerner), Bob Graham (Florida) and Sam Nunn. My choice would be Graham.

One other possibility which cannot be overlooked is Brian Schweitzer (gov of Montana) with Foreign policy guy. I'll probably write a diary about this tomorrow.


by STUBALL on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 04:31:26 AM EST

Re: I Agree With Alegre--This Thing Has Legs (none / 0)

I will bet you a trillion dollars our prediciton never happens.  It's tinfoil nonsense.  


by LarsThorwald on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 10:19:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Yes -Don't throw me in dat ol briar batch (none / 0)


by johngalt on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:48:52 AM EST


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