Updated: Looks like this story's got legs...

Cross-posted at HILLARY'S BLOGGERS

The Sunday shows were all abuzz over the comments Sen. Obama made in San Francisco last week  And this evening's news (NBC I think) led with the story of the back and forth of it all.  Hillary's campaign posted the following on the Fact Hub this afternoon...

Sen. Obama's Damage Control Letter Omits Controversial Remarks>
4/13/2008 3:24:51 PM

Today, the Obama campaign is circulating a letter describing his controversial remarks in San Francisco last Sunday:

What Sen. Obama said is that over the last 25-30 years, working class people in places like Pennsylvania have been falling behind, and that politicians in Washington haven't been looking out for them. He also said that, as a result, many people have become frustrated, angry and even bitter about all the broken promises.

That is not all that Sen. Obama said. The campaign is attempting to paper over the most controversial portion of his remarks:

You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. So it's not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

I think Obama was a bit ticked off at people challenging him over his comments.  The AP posted something an hour ago about some comments Obama made on the campaign trail today.  Seems he's taken up the tone Hillary did in Ohio after Obama sent out those discredited mailers re NAFTA and healthcare.  Top all this off over the way folks have called bullshit on his misleading ads in Pennsylvania with his claims that he doesn't take contributions from big oil (nobody does - it's against the law) - I think the stress is staring to get to the poor guy...

STEELTON, Penn. - Democrat Barack Obama lashed out Sunday at rival Hillary Rodham Clinton, mocking her sudden vocal support for gun rights and saying he understands the concerns of working class people.

"She knows better. Shame on her. Shame on her," Obama told an audience at a union hall here.

Snip

"She is running around talking about how this is an insult to sportsmen, how she values the Second Amendment. She's talking like she's Annie Oakley," Obama said, invoking the famed female sharpshooter immortalized in the musical "Anne Get Your Gun."

Obama continued, saying "Hillary Clinton is out there like she's on the duck blind every Sunday. She's packing a six-shooter. Come on, she knows better. That's some politics being played by Hillary Clinton."

Annie Oakley?  Is this guy serious?  

She called him on his BS - and rather than address the honest reaction by people in small towns to his insulting comments he lashes out at Hillary.  Seriously - people are hurting and the only thing he can say is that people are responding to the tough times by favoring his opponent over him, while clinging to their guns and bibles?  She called him on the insulting remarks and this is all he has to offer up in response?

As for his "shame on her" lines... he's taking a page right out of Hillary's Ohio playbook.  It's bad enough he copies her economic plans but now he's copying what she says on the campaign trail.

Well, Hillary's team had a thing or two to say in response.  Apparently, Obama's camp followed up his little outburst with a campaign memo.  Hillary's camp posted the following on Fact Hub - take a look...

Obama Campaign Embraces San Francisco Remarks, Lashes Out With Attack On Hillary
4/13/2008 4:55:27 PM

Sen. Obama and his campaign continue to embrace his controversial remarks at a San Francisco fundraiser where he said small town votes in Pennsylvania and elsewhere "cling" to guns and religion out of bitterness and frustration. At the same time they have released an angry memo attacking Hillary's views on gun rights, trade and lobbyists. Here are the facts:

1. The memo attacks Hillary for "an overly-narrow interpretation of the Second amendment." When he was running for the state senate in 1996, Barack Obama supported a total ban on the sale, manufacture of possession of handguns.

2. The memo attacks Hillary suggesting it might be in the interests of the U.S. for China to enter the WTO. But on September 8, 2004 at the Illinois Farm Bureau, Sen. Obama said China's membership in the WTO could help the U.S. combat unfair trade practices:

So I think it is important for us to negotiate our trade agreements recognizing that the global economy has shifted... What that means then is that when the Chinese government devalues its currency by 40%, we've got to make sure that we bring China before the WTO. The same way that we get brought before the WTO if other countries think that a disadvantage, that they are being disadvantaged by our existing trade policies. [Illinois Farm Bureau, 9/8/2004]

3. The memo attacks Hillary for accepting money from lobbyists. But Sen. Obama takes money from lobbying firms, state lobbyists, former lobbyists and spouses of lobbyists. Sen. Obama has accepted $2.8 million from firms that employ federal lobbyists and ten of his top bundlers have been federal lobbyists. More info here.

They also followed things up with this press release...

Response to Sen. Obama's Outburst

Phil Singer, Deputy Communications Director, issued the following statement tonight:

For months, Barack Obama and his campaign have relentlessly attacked Hillary Clinton's character and integrity by using Republican talking points from the 1990s.  The shame is his.

Sen. Clinton does know better -- she knows better than to condescend and talk down to voters like Senator Obama did.  Senator Obama's outburst won't change the fact that he has embraced his characterization of the millions of Americans who live in small towns.

Guys as much as I'm guessing Camp Obama wanted to sweep this story under the rug, it doesn't look like they're going to get their wish.  Between the back and forth of it this weekend, the Sunday talk shows and this evening's news, I think this may continue on into the new week.  

Meanwhile, they're not happy with Obama's comments in Altoona, PA.  They're not bitter, but they're not happy either.  They note BO's initial comments, and then his failed attempt to clarify what he said by repeating his insulting remarks in Indiana yesterday - he even called them bitter again.  Take a look at how folks in Altoona reacted outside his campaign office today...

(That sign by the way says "I am not bitter!")

Protesters- Obama's Comments Offensive

"He is definitely out of touch with the voters in Pennsylvania to blaspheme them the way he did," said Hollidaysburg resident Ted Manna.

Stacey Drugg of Altoona said Obama's comments showed he did represent working people in Pennsylvania or working people period.

Manna said everyone has their own beliefs, but it shouldn't be up to a presidential candidate to tell them their beliefs are wrong.

"All the citizens of Pennsylvania should, rightfully so, be upset that he said we hide behind our religion and our guns," said Manna.

Joseph Antal of Ebensburg said, "With all that's been happening in our area, and in Johnstown with the flood, we rebound back from adversity."

Altoona... isn't that the place where Obama went bowling in his shirt and tie, and near where he fed a baby cow with a bottle with his suit on?

Either way, they're not happy with him in Pennsylvania.  The article finishes up by saying that locals organized 5 other protests at BO's offices around the state today over his "bitter" remarks.

The next round of polls in PA should be interesting - stay tuned.

UPDATE

Looks like the campaign's added something to Fact Hub regarding tonight's forum on faith. Take a look...

Sen. Obama's New Spin On 'Cling': It Was A Compliment

4/13/2008 11:38:10 PM

After several failed attempts to explain the comments he made in San Francisco, Sen. Obama used tonight's faith forum to claim that he was actually complimenting small town America for its faith in God and respect for longheld traditions like hunting. But tonight's explanation isn't consistent with what he actually said in San Francisco.

In his actual remarks (which he stands by), he grouped faith and guns in with "anti-immigrant sentiment," "anti-trade sentiment" and "antipathy to people who aren't like them." Presumably, Senator Obama doesn't think it appropriate to cling to antipathy for others.

More to the point, the remarks Senator Obama made in San Francisco suggest Americans in small towns don't have strength to deal with economic realities so they fall back on what Senator Obama implied is a culture that is backward and outdated: guns, superficial spiritual propping up, and emotionalism that stigmatizes people of different backgrounds.

Sen. Obama on April 13:

Well, first of all, you know, Scripture talks about clinging to what's good... What I was saying is that when economic hardship hits in these communities, what people have is- they've got family, they've got their faith., they've got the traditions that have been passed on to them from generation to generation. Those aren't bad things.

Sen. Obama's original comments on April 6:

Here's how it is: in a lot of these communities in big industrial states like Ohio and Pennsylvania, people have been beaten down so long, and they feel so betrayed by government, and when they hear a pitch that is premised on not being cynical about government, then a part of them just doesn't buy it. And when it's delivered by -- it's true that when it's delivered by a 46-year-old black man named Barack Obama (laugher), then that adds another layer of skepticism (laughter)...

But the truth is, is that, our challenge is to get people persuaded that we can make progress when there's not evidence of that in their daily lives. You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. So it's not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

Complimenting eh? Yeah. I don't think the folks in Pennsylvania are going to buy that one. They're smarter than that and I think Obama's adding insult to injury in thinking they're going to buy this newest explanation of his.


Display:


Re: Looks like this story's got legs... (1.95 / 22)

See? Regular folks are pissed too.


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 11:54:22 PM EST

Re: Looks like this story's got legs... (2.00 / 2)

Good one! Video embed is broken.  


I have yet to see what [Obama] has done to take the highest office in the land. He is no Martin Luther King. --Helen Thomas
by ghost 2 on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 11:56:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Looks like this story's got legs... (2.00 / 7)

It re-affirms BHO's campaign theme:

"Obama: Bitterness you can count on."

Seriously, there's a trick to embedding YouTubes on MyDD which requires the HTML code be revised after the diary is posted.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 12:03:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Looks like this story's got legs... (2.00 / 2)

Now, the link is good.  The video is awesome!


I have yet to see what [Obama] has done to take the highest office in the land. He is no Martin Luther King. --Helen Thomas
by ghost 2 on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 12:10:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Looks like this story's got legs... (2.00 / 3)

Yeah - it's great isn't it?  A buddy of mine sent it to me this afternoon.  Thought I'd like it given that I've been writing about this whole gaffe over the past two days ;o)


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 12:22:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Looks like this story's got legs... (2.00 / 2)

One person's gaffe is another person's truth.

Somewhat like Tuzla, I guess...or NAFTA...or the vote for war with Iraq...or...

Ah - never mind.


by sick of it all on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 12:31:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Looks like this story's got legs... (2.00 / 4)

Unfortunately, "bitter" voters "clinging to religion and guns" aren't going to say "nevermind" to Obama's "typical white people" slams, throwing his grandmother under a bus, and passively listening to his pastor spew hate and division for 20 years.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 12:40:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Looks like this story's got legs... (2.00 / 1)

the problem is that CNN covered it but muffled up what he actually said.  Unless their viewers were fairly astute, they would not have caught the swipe against religion, hunting, and concern about illegal immigrants flooding the country.


by internetstar on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 09:14:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Looks like this story's got legs... (2.00 / 0)

It's a perfect fun way of depicting the Barack-Hillary back and forth.  

We should all lighten up.  


I have yet to see what [Obama] has done to take the highest office in the land. He is no Martin Luther King. --Helen Thomas
by ghost 2 on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 12:51:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Looks like this story's got legs... (2.00 / 0)

This is weird.  While I was watching the video from your link, Alegre, I got an e-mail from a fellow I know who seldom corresponds.  He was sending a link to it!

Looks like that video has legs, too.


by creeper1014 on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 11:15:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Looks like this story's got legs... (2.00 / 2)

Thanks for fixing the link.  Everyone, the video is great: light and funny.  Give it a look.  


I have yet to see what [Obama] has done to take the highest office in the land. He is no Martin Luther King. --Helen Thomas
by ghost 2 on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 12:09:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Looks like this story's got legs... (2.00 / 4)

Heh, you guys say that every time!  You have to post and then go back and re-insert the embed code for videos here.  Takes a minute so patience grassoppa - patience ;o)


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 12:18:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Looks like this story's got legs... (2.00 / 5)

As an Obama supporter, I used to really admire your positive pro-Hillary diaries.

I am disappointed at the turn your diaries have made in the last few weeks.


by mefck on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 11:56:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Looks like this story's got legs... (1.77 / 9)

Try to be understanding...it's all they have left.


by sick of it all on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 11:59:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Looks like this story's got legs... (2.00 / 4)

Well... not actually.  But your guy gave us a HUGE gift with that comment of his.  Audio - some video - the whole nine yards.

Are you seriously telling us you wouldn't be all over this if Hillary had made this kind of a blunder?


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 12:28:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Looks like this story's got legs... (2.00 / 1)

First off it wasn't a blunder.  Secondly, of course not.


by RussTC3 on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 12:31:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Only in Clintopia is the truth (1.50 / 2)

an enormous gotcha gift to Hillary.  Pretty thin stuff.  Alegre, let us know with yet another one of your endless diaries when Obama doesn't read an NIE then votes to invade a sovereign nation which didn't attack us, then you have a definite gotcha that will have some real legs on it.


by ReillyDiefenbach on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 03:36:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wasn't a Blunder (2.00 / 0)

My god, get real.  You candidate's gaffe is all over every media outlet, major and minor.  Even HE admitted he "could've phrased it better".  

That's a terminal case of denial you've got there.


by creeper1014 on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 12:52:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wasn't a Blunder (none / 0)

Yup, still not a blunder.  Thanks for playing.

I wonder when we'll actually get to discuss some relevant issues in this campaign.


by RussTC3 on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 09:57:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Looks like this story's got legs... (2.00 / 2)

You see, that's how we're different...

This is not a game.  When Hillary messes up (with the sniper shuff), it isn't a "gift".  It's unfortunate because Hillary could be our nominee and I don't want anything out there that could help the GOP in the general election.

Similarly, when Obama says something like that, it shouldn't be viewed as a "gift" but as something unfortunate.


by mefck on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 12:55:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Looks like this story's got legs... (none / 0)

I can seriously tell you I wouldn't be all over Hillary on this. I don't need a poorly chosen sentence when I know she voted for and supported Bush's dirty war.
by mikeinsf on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 06:05:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Looks like this story's got legs... (2.00 / 5)

I'm disappointed in the insulting and negative tone of Obama's rheoric.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 12:00:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Looks like this story's got legs... (2.00 / 3)

Well, he is running against Hillary.  When in Rome...


by sick of it all on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 12:04:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Looks like this story's got legs... (2.00 / 7)

More like: When in Rome, make up crap like "Annie Oakley" when you don't have anything else to excuse book for your latest gaffe.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 12:07:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Looks like this story's got legs... (2.00 / 3)

The Annie Oakley thing was priceless hysterical.

Obama chewed her up and spit her out.  'Bout time.  He's got to be as sick of this bullshit as many of us are.  Time for her to get behind the winner and stop this nonsense.

And I bet this one pulls Gore and Carter out of the background...that's the rumor anyway.  There's only so much of the Clintons throwing the party under the bus real Dems will take.


by sick of it all on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 12:09:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Looks like this story's got legs... (2.00 / 5)

The Annie Oakley thing was priceless hysterical, alright! It made Obama look like a total dolt. Time for him to get behind Hillary and stop this nonsense. There's only so much of Obama throwing his grandmother and other Democrats under the bus real Dems will take.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 12:17:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Looks like this story's got legs... (1.50 / 2)

Wait.  Stop.  Seriously?!?!?

Obama needs to get behind Hillary?!?!?  Holy shit - that is truly priceless.

Let me spell this out for you: Obama is W I N N I N G.  Big time.  Not just a little bit.  Hillary is hanging on and can't win.  Sad, really.  Supers are like a slow Chinese water torture going in Obama's favor.

(Plus, you kinda sorta plagiarized my comment.  I forgive you.  And since when are you the keeper of Barack's grandma?)

This place cracks me up!


by sick of it all on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 12:26:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

He is winning (2.00 / 3)

at this point.  He is not winning "big time".  Let's all lay off the hyperbole.


Unity Ticket: The best damn way to kick John McCain's Ass in November!
by aurelius on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 12:31:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He is winning (2.00 / 2)

By all means - prove me wrong...

How in the hell can she make up his lead?  Huh??

By winning all remaining delegates by something like 75%?  No chance.

It's over.  Everyone knows it but Hillary.

Call is hyperbole if you like.  Some of us call it reality.


by sick of it all on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 12:34:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I was trying to be polite (2.00 / 0)

and reasonable with you.  She has a path to the nomination.  So does Obama obviously.  Neither will have enough delegates at the end of the primary season.  I will vote for whichever Democrat wins:  Hillary or Barack--because McCain is horrible.  How about you?


Unity Ticket: The best damn way to kick John McCain's Ass in November!
by aurelius on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 12:41:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I was trying to be polite (2.00 / 1)

Please lay out her path to the nomination with hard numbers. I don't think you can do it. Really. I think that your logic is so inept that you won't even bother putting it into writing. Prove me wrong.


by bookish on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 07:33:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

bookish, Does the Word "Superdelegate" (none / 0)

ring a bell?


by creeper1014 on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 01:06:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Well, then lay out your scenario (none / 0)

in black and white. I don't think you can.

The problem with your superdelegate argument can be analogized thusly, if you'll indulge me in a bit of baseball, this being the season and all.

So, the fans go to the park in the early season and fill out their ballots for the All-Star game. There are clear winners and losers. But the week before the All-Star game, the MLB commission decides that the fans chose the wrong players and decide to overrule the votes and send the players they choose to the game.

In your estimation, from what I can gather by your argument, you feel this is perfectly okay, fine, whatever. I have a feeling, however, that the vast majority of fans would either not attend, nor watch the game in protest. There may even be some who think that the game has become something of an oligarchy, and decide that their support and interest means nothing to the entire enterprise.


by bookish on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 01:41:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Read Before You Comment (none / 0)

I made no argument whatsoever...just asked if you were familiar with the word "superdelegate".

Sorry I don't have time to respond in depth.  I'm gonna go fly my toy airplane.

Have a nice day.


by creeper1014 on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:59:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Well, then lay out your scenario (none / 0)

Great analogy.  Looks like it scared away any "real" answers... :)


by sick of it all on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 09:07:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Well, then lay out your scenario (none / 0)

It is my understanding that the all-star game doesn't actually count, and most fans are more interested in who wins the division/championship, so that is a really weak analogy.

More to the point, I have seen polls where a majority favored allowing the superdelegates to decide rather than requiring them to vote for whoever won their state primary/caucus. As for Hillary's route to the nomination, I expect it would involve Obama really f***ing up or something, such that he became unacceptable as nominee. It's highly unlikely, but possible, especially considering that he is not the overwhelming choice of Democrats...his lead in delegates is largely due to superior campaign strategy (Hillary's loyalty to Mark Penn has been a disaster for her).


by Alice in Florida on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 09:39:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Well, then lay out your scenario (none / 0)

It's humorous that you want to argue that the analogy is flawed, since voting on the All-Star game is the most democratic aspect of MLB; the one part of the season where the fans have a say in the placement of the players. And I'd love to see those polls that show the majority favors intervention of the supers in the nomination process. Please post those here.


by bookish on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:11:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Looks like this story's got legs... (2.00 / 2)

And your highly placed source for information on Gore and Carter is.........?


Unity Ticket: The best damn way to kick John McCain's Ass in November!
by aurelius on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 12:18:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Looks like this story's got legs... (2.00 / 1)

The Scotsman, the same paper that broke the Samantha Power story.


by jere7my on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 12:24:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Oh, of course (2.00 / 1)

I should have known immediately.  Lol.  :)


Unity Ticket: The best damn way to kick John McCain's Ass in November!
by aurelius on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 12:32:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Looks like this story's got legs... (2.00 / 2)

The Annie Oakley thing was hysterical, agreed.  In all candor, it makes Barack look even more bizarre and out of touch to be throwing around obscure and seemingly sexist remarks in his tantrum over his insults.


2004 swing state margins: PA-2%, OH-2%, IA-1%, WI-0.5%, MI-3%, FL-5%, NM-1%; Alienating 50% of the party is a luxury we can't afford.
by BPK80 on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 12:45:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Lighten up. (none / 0)

the Annie Oakley comment was piquant.
There's a whole lot more damaging things he could have told about HRC.
by barnowl on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:12:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Looks like this story's got legs... (2.00 / 0)


 Except he dose not know that you don`t hunt ducks with a six shooter!
Wisdom Is The Reward For Listening Over A Lifetime
by gunner on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 01:10:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Looks like this story's got legs... (2.00 / 0)

  And one does not sit on a duck blind, a duck blind is something one sits in. Duck blind-so as not to be seen!?!-hello.


by artsykr on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:46:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Looks like this story's got legs... (none / 0)

You people are priceless.

Let's not talk about real stuff.  Let's pick apart his comments on six-shooters and duck-blinds.

Too funny!


by sick of it all on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 07:43:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "The Annie Oakley Thing" (2.00 / 0)

I'll grant you it was hysterical.  The rising note of panic in the Obama campaign is impossible to ignore.

You'd think a consummate politician like Obama would realize he needs to do some major damage control.  Instead, he just keeps digging himself in deeper.

Barack Obama is a neophyte.  He has neither the qualifications to be President nor the temperament to run a gloves-off presidential campaign, which is what he will get at the hands of McRove.  

That amateurism is beginning to become painfully apparent, after years of his having had a pass by the media.  It will only get worse.


by creeper1014 on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 01:04:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It's not panic (none / 0)

it's end of patience.


by barnowl on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:48:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Looks like this story's got legs... (2.00 / 4)

"See"??!!  I rather expected that to be followed by a "nah-nah-nah-boo-boo".

I somewhat understand being obsessed, but your track record of diaries here today is just sad, IMO.

They need a limit to how much silliness one person can spew in a day.


by sick of it all on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 12:03:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Looks like this story's got legs... (2.00 / 5)

If that were the test, your comment period would be over at 12:01 AM every day.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 12:09:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Looks like this story's got legs... (2.00 / 1)

But only if I comment sometime between 12 and 12:01am. Ha!

::sticks out tongue in keeping with level of discourse witnessed in above remark::


by sick of it all on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 12:11:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Looks like this story's got legs... (2.00 / 2)

Considering your remarks began with ""nah-nah-nah-boo-boo....." Apparently that's what you call "discourse." LOL


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 12:20:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Looks like this story's got legs... (2.00 / 1)

Apparently that was kinda hard for you to follow.

I was responding to what I interpreted as a rather juvenile "See?" from the diarist in the first comment.

Ok.  That'd be it for me with you for today.  Have a lovely evening.

Good day, sir.  I say, good day.


by sick of it all on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 12:29:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Looks like this story's got legs... (2.00 / 0)

Nice work.

Ignore the naysayers who resort to insulting you personally.  Your commentaries and wonderful amalgams of sources help situate the reader into where the situation stands right now.  And this is highly relevant because it's the most important story in politics at the moment.

And... Annie Oakley?  (WTF!?)  This isn't sexist?  I hate to resort to isms and race/gender-baiting, but if she called him something comparable when he was (ahem) "bowling," imagine the outrage.


2004 swing state margins: PA-2%, OH-2%, IA-1%, WI-0.5%, MI-3%, FL-5%, NM-1%; Alienating 50% of the party is a luxury we can't afford.
by BPK80 on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 01:04:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Looks like this story's got legs... (2.00 / 1)

It was a overtly sexist. Does Obama really think that the idea of a woman advocating second-amendment rights is so amusing? Look! A girl with a gun. Heh heh. Don't hurt yourself, sweetie.

Hey Barack, did you hear Hillary talking about airline safety last week? Who does she think she is, Amelia Earhart? A girl flying planes! That's rich.


by ryeland on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:36:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Looks like this story's got legs... (2.00 / 1)

LOL!  Your Amelia comparison was delightful.

Thank you for your comment.  Over on InsanelyKos, the idea that he was being sexist has been disregarded as "hypersensitive overfeminist" whatever.  But it seemed pretty overt to me as well!


2004 swing state margins: PA-2%, OH-2%, IA-1%, WI-0.5%, MI-3%, FL-5%, NM-1%; Alienating 50% of the party is a luxury we can't afford.
by BPK80 on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 07:57:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Looks like this story's got legs... (none / 0)

Ha!


by Al Depansu on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 12:29:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Outside of Phila and P'burgh... (2.00 / 1)

...the folks in the rest of PA take their sports hunting pastime very, very seriously! (For real.)

To this day, I can't get over how, after I married a woman from the Harrisburg area (I'm from NJ and now live in NY), I realized just how serious these folks are when it comes to their hunting. They actually have a holiday, the day after Thanksgiving, in PA, were tens of thousands of hunters actually take an extra day to celebrate the opening of deer season! When I first found out about this 20 years ago, I couldn't get over it. (It's like a different world, and I was born and raised in the next state over, too!)

Barack has no idea what he's done having criticized these sportsmen. It's close to major sacrilege, as far as politics is concerned. I didn't have a clue back then. And, neither does he, now.

We're talkin' major damage here.


by bobswern on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:57:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Outstanding Work, Alegre (2.00 / 1)

Rec'd and tipped, deservedly.

Does anyone else hear a rising note of hysteria from the Obama side?  Between Obama's "running around like Annie Oakley" and some of the comments on the blogs (one even denying he'd lumped Bill Clinton in with the Bushes), I'm sensing panic.

CBSNews had this to say about their appearance togetherlast night:

Obama brushed past Clinton in what truly looked like an uncomfortable moment between the two.

How funny is that?  Obama's own words are what are causing him so much grief right now but he's mad at Hillary!  Like she put them in his mouth?

I was an Obama supporter for a long time.  I fell victim to the pretty words, overlooking completely the paucity of a record or experience.  I also liked the fact that he supposedly opposed the war (we won't discuss all those votes for funding) and Clinton would not acknowledge that the war was a mistake.  By the time she finally stated she would not vote for AUMF again I'd figured out what Obama was lacking and I was able to support the person I knew to be the better-qualified candidate.

Obama is exhibiting the same stubbornness in refusing to acknowledge his own goofs.  If he keeps it up he's through.  Americans will forgive a mistake readily. They're much less tolerant of intransigence and arrogance.


by creeper1014 on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 11:40:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Outstanding Work, Alegre (2.00 / 0)

I Tivo'd the moment when Obama shook hands with Clinton and brushed by her. She was in the middle of saying something him, when he walked right by her. For a brief second, you could see a startled look on Clinton's face. Reminds me of when he seemed to ignore her during the President's last State-of-the-Union.
by zenful6219 on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 01:39:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

She's done tthe same to him (none / 0)

even long ago.
Just how much betrayal and abuse is a person supposed to take?
The nastiness needs to stop. The scorched earth needs to stop.
by barnowl on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:44:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Alegre, picture on HillaryHub (none / 0)

would be great addition, Obama mocked and got it thrown back in his face by HRC! It's great


DEMOCRATIC 08!
by rigsoHC on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 12:02:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Looks like this story's got legs... (2.00 / 10)

In honor of your 4th diary on this subject, I am donating $40 to Obama tonight.


by mefck on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 11:55:04 PM EST

Re: Looks like this story's got legs... (2.00 / 6)

Hey, your guy said "shame on her"! You expect Clinton and her supporters to sit on their hands and say nothing?


I have yet to see what [Obama] has done to take the highest office in the land. He is no Martin Luther King. --Helen Thomas
by ghost 2 on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 11:56:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Looks like this story's got legs... (2.00 / 4)

Yeah, I am sure when Sen. Clinton said "Shame on you Barack Obama", you ran to every Obama supporter's defense to decry those comments, right?


by mefck on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 11:59:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Looks like this story's got legs... (2.00 / 6)

My point is that on the day he said that, you can't expect Alegre to sit on her hands and say nothing, can you?  

Notice that your guy is inviting the brawl.  


I have yet to see what [Obama] has done to take the highest office in the land. He is no Martin Luther King. --Helen Thomas
by ghost 2 on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 12:02:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Looks like this story's got legs... (1.30 / 10)

Ahh, good point, she does only have two diaries on the rec list. Time for more copy/pasting.


Hooray for John McCain!
by ragekage on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 12:03:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Looks like this story's got legs... (1.83 / 6)

* waits for inevitable troll-rate abuse *


Hooray for John McCain!
by ragekage on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 12:04:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

If you don't want to be TR'd, then I (2.00 / 3)

would suggest you stop calling out the diarist, which deserves a TR according to the suggested guidelines I've read here.


Obama supporter working to defeat McCain.
by Rumarhazzit on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 12:13:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If you don't want to be TR'd, then I (1.66 / 3)

Oh, God.  Here we go.

Self-righteous troll police.  Wheee!!!

There was no "call-out" - only a statement of fact.  How many diaries about this topic can you swallow in one day?

Although, I do understand that any alleged "blunder" by Obama is quite an event.  With Hillary, it's just too common to even try to keep up.


by sick of it all on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 12:16:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If you don't want to be TR'd, then I (2.00 / 3)

It's the lead story right now.  I don't think on a political discussion forum that it's surprising to see multiple stories on the latest and most prominent story currently in politics.  


2004 swing state margins: PA-2%, OH-2%, IA-1%, WI-0.5%, MI-3%, FL-5%, NM-1%; Alienating 50% of the party is a luxury we can't afford.
by BPK80 on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 12:48:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

"Most prominent story?!" (2.00 / 1)

Yeah - we wouldn't want to talk about how the torture directive came from the highest office in our land...

Sure.  Obama's comment definitely eclipses torture! /end snark


by sick of it all on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 07:47:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Most prominent story?!" (2.00 / 0)

Yeah, but the Obama gaffe is news.  Anyone who doesn't know we torture and the president condones it has been living in a hole.


by creeper1014 on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 01:17:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Most prominent story?!" (none / 0)

Oh!  That clearly explains the piling on of Obama.

Thank you for your insightful retort.


by sick of it all on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 10:38:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I was going to uprate you.... (2.00 / 2)

until I read the 4th sentence of your post.  Both candidates have blundered.  Both have embellished.  Both have lied.  They're politicians. Don't pretend  your candidate is a saint and HRC is the devil.  Neither is true.


Unity Ticket: The best damn way to kick John McCain's Ass in November!
by aurelius on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 01:13:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I was going to uprate you.... (none / 0)

No - not angel and devil, but there is a huge difference.  I don't really give a shit about trolls or uprates.  Thanks, anyway.


by sick of it all on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 12:21:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If you don't want to be TR'd, then I (2.00 / 0)

Let's be real. Obama's supporters are the first to cry to the Admins about TR abuse. So, don't go there. I'm not sure you're keeping up for the past several weeks and months, but most of the blunder events have been Obama-related.


by zenful6219 on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 10:38:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If you don't want to be TR'd, then I (2.00 / 1)

S/he call call out the diarist on content--that does not deserve TRing.  Calling out a diarist personally (I.e., "you're a __") is not acceptable and deserves a TR rating.


Unity Ticket: The best damn way to kick John McCain's Ass in November!
by aurelius on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 12:20:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I like the one source which is (2.00 / 1)

the "obviously" neutral Fact Hub.

(will this comment be HR'ed into oblivion or will it just get hit with TR's and will I still have the power to rate comments and diaries after this? probably not, but it beats reading about rabies... really depressing)


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 12:14:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I like the one source which is (2.00 / 1)

Yes, we know the only authoritative source in the known universe is Obama.com


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 12:27:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I am not saying that (none / 0)

I just like to know the bias of my sources and account for that when I write.  I got that pointed out to me while I was "in school" (don't trust completely what a circa 1250's Sienian says about Florence ;)  )

(referring to a snide comment you made a few weeks ago)


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 12:42:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I like the one source which is (none / 0)

I heard a guy from Slate.com today on CNN also say that, last night, Obama seems to say he was actually  complimenting people. The audacity of Obama! This issues does have legs. By the way, who in their right mind bowls and fedds calves wearing a suit and tie? He couldn't have at least taken off the tie!!!


by zenful6219 on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 10:35:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Looks like this story's got legs... (2.00 / 3)

If the shame fits...

And - oooooo - the "shame" card.  Who played that one first?


by sick of it all on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 12:00:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Looks like this story's got legs... (2.00 / 4)

Yup, and when she said the same thing to him for pointing out something correctly about her healthcare proposal, you were all over her, weren't you?


Hooray for John McCain!
by ragekage on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 12:00:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Speaking of Shame, (2.00 / 3)

Do you have any??

Obama's mailout was 'misleading' (a charitable description; lied about Hillary's plan will be the honest way of putting it).

But hey, if you like the kool-aid...


I have yet to see what [Obama] has done to take the highest office in the land. He is no Martin Luther King. --Helen Thomas
by ghost 2 on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 12:13:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Good on ya! (2.00 / 1)

I'm sending her $40 (wish I could send $400).  And if by chance she doesn't win, I'll send money to BHO (it'll be hard, but I'll suck it up and do it).  We can't 'afford' McCain.  Arghhh:  just the thought of him in the WH makes me want to vomit.


Unity Ticket: The best damn way to kick John McCain's Ass in November!
by aurelius on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 01:00:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Is his temper as bad (none / 0)

as has been rumored?


Unity Ticket: The best damn way to kick John McCain's Ass in November!
by aurelius on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 01:15:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Here's to another Clinton in the WH! (2.00 / 0)


Unity Ticket: The best damn way to kick John McCain's Ass in November!
by aurelius on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 01:46:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Good on ya! (2.00 / 0)

I've been sending money to Hillary Clinton every month and I, too, will close my eyes and hold my nose and send money to BO if he's the nominee. Further, I'll hope that we can find some way to counteract the caricatures of BO that will be created by the GOP. He's giving them so much fertile fodder.


by zenful6219 on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 10:45:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Looks like this story's got legs... (1.33 / 3)

Thanks mefck... I'll follow your lead. I wonder what pseudo-scandal will take up alegre's time next week?
by mikeinsf on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 05:46:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Looks like this story's got legs... (2.00 / 1)

It is unfathomable that someone could call Obama's bittergate a pseduo-scandal. It's on all of the mainstream media and I doubt they all got their clues from MyDD. This is a real problem for Obama. He has given the Republicans one more way to create a negative caricature of him in the general election, should he be the nominee.


by zenful6219 on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 10:50:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Looks like this story's got legs... (none / 0)

I'm sure you would consider Tuzla-gate a pseudoscandal, yet there it was on the MSM.  This non-story got legs because the rival campaigns stirred the pot and the MSM served as echo chamber.  That doesn't mean it was a scandal, as evidenced by the latest poll. Turns out, Americans are smarter than some give them credit for and understood well what BO was saying.


by mikeinsf on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 03:16:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama was still right by (2.00 / 2)

the sociological standard... just another unspeakable truth.  It is rather a shame to see the Clinton camp jump on this, when they know darn well the comments were completely accurate


Bring Back MyDD - Just say No to Rec'ing Candidate Diaries.
by CardBoard on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 11:56:12 PM EST

Re: Obama was still right by (2.00 / 3)

So which part of the comment was true?  This is important to me because I live there and I want to find out everything about myself that I can.  Is it true that I'm bigoted and against people who aren't like me?  Do I cling to my religion?  Cause i don't have one and I don't want to be clinging to it to comfort myself when I'm bitter.  When am I bitter, do you know?  

Can you direct me to a Sociology book where I can read somemore?  

Just one more question.  After Obama gets done reading his textbooks for information about us, is he going to come for a visit and find out the real story from the horses mouth?  We have horses here, too.  They could fill him in.


by Scotch on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 12:07:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama was still right by (2.00 / 1)

Well you are making a big mistake by assuming he said all people in small towns... he didn't.  Now, if you want to tell me that some people from wherever you are from don't hold extreme religious views, don't think guns are to protect them from the government, and are anti-foreign go ahead.  But, what we see in data set after data set is the economic hardship causes religious extremism.  Increased evangelical behavior, an advanced sense of end-times, and a demonization of 'other' persons (be them gay, foreign, etc.).  Over the past 8 years (but more clearly 20) we have seen the numbers rise, mostly through rural voters - Bush voters.  These people are going to be Obama's hardest voting block to get.

I'm from Hunstville Texas, an extremely small town, and just happen to have made a career out of studying religion in public life.  If you want a fairly quick read, which isn't just poll-chalked, check out "What's the matter with Kansas."  I have never seen anything to the contrary in my years of research


Bring Back MyDD - Just say No to Rec'ing Candidate Diaries.
by CardBoard on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 12:15:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Great book (none / 0)

I like Thomas Frank's argument, my area in Western MN votes in it's economic interest, but it is kind of an island in a red sea (it was dark blue in 2002 which was bad out there)


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 12:18:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Great book (2.00 / 1)

Some other books along these lines are "The Rise of Southern Republicans" from Harvard Press by Black(s)... and Kevin Kruse, here at Princeton, as a couple of good books and articles


Bring Back MyDD - Just say No to Rec'ing Candidate Diaries.
by CardBoard on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 12:26:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Great book (none / 0)

I think you should read Larry Bartel's (Princeton) "What's the matter with What's the Matter with Kansas" before deciding that that book (and those like it) are good.  


by slynch on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 12:48:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Great book (2.00 / 1)

I will read it, I like to keep my ID reserved, but am glad to see other Tigers in the house!


Bring Back MyDD - Just say No to Rec'ing Candidate Diaries.
by CardBoard on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 12:54:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Great book (2.00 / 1)

(I think you gave your id away earlier when you said "here at ..."!)


by slynch on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 12:56:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Great book (2.00 / 1)

I meant my name... I'm always fearful of revealing too much info here


Bring Back MyDD - Just say No to Rec'ing Candidate Diaries.
by CardBoard on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 01:04:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Great book (none / 0)

Gun Show Nation: Gun Culture and American Democracy by Joan Burbick is pretty interesting too.


Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove.
by fogiv on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 12:48:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: everyone agrees with the ks part (none / 0)

So your only problem with the whole episode is the word "clings", and for this you would like to damage him so badly as to make him unelectable?  (He isn't - it's just what you guys believe)


by interestedbystander on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 01:53:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama was still right by (2.00 / 0)

Well some would say that Obama's church and some of the members practice religious extremism, but they aren't from a rural area and REverend Wright has been employed.  What's making him bitter?  I saw his retirement mansion in a picture too, and he isn't exactly economically deprived.  And I hear they have some guns in urban areas too, and some people have them just in case the government gets after them.  Then there is Philly in PA.  That aint no rural area, but they got guns.  I'm just wondering why he chose to tell those high falutin' donators in San Fran that those characteristics belong to some people in Pennsylvania.  Pennsylvania is far from one of the most economically deprived states in the union.  I'm just trying to get some clarification, that's all.


by Scotch on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 12:27:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama was still right by (2.00 / 1)

I imagine Rev. Wright is bitter about the America he grew up in, and the community his Church is in.  I won't discuss his personal life with you.  I live outside of Philly, on the Jersey Side, and am a hunter myself.  I believe he was talking about the strong NRA voters, the protect ourselves from the Government (Huckabee) voters, the guns in the God/Gays/Guns Republican strategy.  

Maybe I know more about PA than you, but when you hit the high-lands it gets pretty rough.  I'd say dairy country has been hit pretty hard, and the mines are near defunct.  The regions of PA which are pulling up the economy are the outside D.C. region and the Philly burbs, and NY/NJ commuters.


Bring Back MyDD - Just say No to Rec'ing Candidate Diaries.
by CardBoard on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 12:33:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama was still right by (2.00 / 0)

I'm sorry, been a resident of PA for 51 years.  I kinda doubt that.


by Scotch on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 12:40:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama was still right by (2.00 / 1)

your likely to know more than me, then.  But I really think he was speaking too the western PA folks who are very rural...from my time there, even rural thank East Texas


Bring Back MyDD - Just say No to Rec'ing Candidate Diaries.
by CardBoard on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 12:46:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama was still right by (2.00 / 1)

Oh no, he was speaking to the poor people everywhere that he despises. Didn't you read alegre's 5000 other posts?


If you're being chased by an angry bull and then you notice you're also being chased by a swarm of bees, it doesn't really change things. Just keep on running.
by vcalzone on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 01:03:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama was still right by (2.00 / 1)

This is also simply not true.  You do NOT see this in data set after data set.  I challenge you to name ONE. &