Obama's Words That Matter - An Analysis [UPDATE]

This diary is a dissection and analysis of Obama's SF fundraiser comments and his response today. It is somewhat dry and precise. The intent is to contrast the original statement with the subsequent clarification to determine if Obama was actually addressing the controversy or trying to simply deflect it. Further the goal is to bore in on what Obama was really saying to his supporters at the fundraiser.

Here's Obama's remark at the SF fundraiser:

And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

Here's his clarification from today:

"I didn't say it as well as I should have," he said at Ball State University.

...

There has been a small "political flare-up because I said something that everybody knows is true, which is that there are a whole bunch of folks in small towns in Pennsylvania, in towns right here in Indiana, in my hometown in Illinois, who are bitter," Obama said Saturday morning at a town hall-style meeting at the university. "They are angry. They feel like they have been left behind. They feel like nobody is paying attention to what they're going through."

"So I said, well you know, when you're bitter you turn to what you can count on. So people, they vote about guns, or they take comfort from their faith and their family and their community. And they get mad about illegal immigrants who are coming over to this country."

After acknowledging his previous remarks in California could have been better phrased, he added:

"The truth is that these traditions that are passed on from generation to generation, those are important. That's what sustains us. But what is absolutely true is that people don't feel like they are being listened to.

"And so they pray and they count on each other and they count on their families. You know this in your own lives, and what we need is a government that is actually paying attention.

Does this clarification do anything to address the charges of elitism that condescension resulting from his SF fundraiser remarks? Does he answer the substance of the offending comment or does he try to set up a straw man and then knock it down?

Let's look at the several components of the SF comment and see how he addresses each in his response. "And it's not surprising then they get bitter." He says these poor people are bitter. It is hard to imagine that they are not bitter given the economic hardship they are enduring. Clinton for some strange reason decided yesterday to say that she didn't think that Pennsylvanians she had met were bitter. Well, I am certain that a case can be made that they are very angry. Obama, in his response sticks to his guns, "There has been a small "political flare-up because I said something that everybody knows is true, which is that there are a whole bunch of folks in small towns in Pennsylvania, in towns right here in Indiana, in my hometown in Illinois, who are bitter....They are angry. They feel like they have been left behind. They feel like nobody is paying attention to what they're going through." Obama reiterates that he said that people were bitter, that he thinks it is true that they are bitter and that, the fact that he said so is what has caused the uproar. But is that true? Is it the case that people are upset with him because he said that they were angry? No. This is the straw man. Nobody is really saying that the offense is that he said that people were bitter. The offensive part is what comes next.

Let's go back to the SF fundraiser comment. When people are bitter, Obama says,  "they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."  That's five things that bitter people do to explain away their frustrations:

1. Cling to guns

2. Cling to religion

3. Cling to antipathy to people who aren't like them

4. Cling to anti-immigrant sentiment

5. Cling to anti-trade sentiments

First let's see if he addresses the notion in his response that bitter people seek refuges to explain away their frustrations.  "So I said, well you know, when you're bitter you turn to what you can count on. So people, they vote about guns, or they take comfort from their faith and their family and their community. And they get mad about illegal immigrants who are coming over to this country." Obama reiterates that he believes that bitter people turn to things that they can count on. He specifically mentions guns, religion, family and antipathy for illegal immigrants.  I don't know much about guns, but one could argue that hardship would lead one to take refuge in religion and families, but what on earth does that have to do with not supporting Obama? Is he saying that people who take refuge in their guns, religion and families are disposed to reject Obama? Why? Is he saying that he people who care about illegal immigration are inclined to reject Obama? Again why?

He continues:  "The truth is that these traditions that are passed on from generation to generation, those are important. That's what sustains us. But what is absolutely true is that people don't feel like they are being listened to... And so they pray and they count on each other and they count on their families. You know this in your own lives..." Whether you believe this or not, what does it have to do with whether or not they support Obama? You would hope that the more people took comfort in their families, the more they would embrace his message of hope and change. Then he does something very odd and concludes, "and what we need is a government that is actually paying attention."  

I guess the implication is that the people are bitter because the government has deserted them. For some reason, this makes them turn to their families, guns, religion and anti-immigration ideas, which for some reason makes them not support Obama. What they need is a government that is actually paying attention so that they will believe more in government and therefore support the head of the government...him. It seems impossible to argue with the conclusion, that if government served the people better they would be more supportive of the leaders, but again what does that have to do with why they don't support Obama over Clinton and McCain now. If anything, those two are more closely linked to this government. So here we have another straw man. It simply makes no sense that bitter people turning to guns, family, religion and anti immigration sentiments would have any reason to reject Obama over Clinton and certainly not over McCain.

Let's go back to the assumption that people who are bitter are more inclined to take refuge in guns, religion, family and anti immigration sentiments. Can that be what people find offensive and elitist? What if he had said that people who are rich, like his audience in SF, were more likely to reject guns, religion and families, and be more inclined to go easy on illegal immigration. Now that would not have gone over very well at all. So it seems that the ease with which he was willing to categorize an entire demographic of the electorate and then ascribe anti-Obama leanings to them based on that characterization is the crux of the offense.

And....there is something else. A careful reader would notice that he only addressed four of the five things that bitter people do to explain away their frustrations in his response. One other thing that he told the rich people at the SF fundraiser that bitter people do is "cling...to antipathy to people who aren't like them." His response does not address this at all.

Now let's go back to the perplexing analysis of what on earth these four refuges he mentions in his response could have to do with why they would reject Obama. As stated above, it is very hard to make a clear case, but here we have it. Obama is saying that bitter people turn to racism as a way to explain away their frustrations. In one short comment he generalizes that an entire segment of the population, because they are poor and bitter, among other stereotypical characteristics, harbor racial animosity. He says this to a room full of rich people as a way of explaining why he is not doing as well in these areas.

So, the offense has nothing to do with the fact that he called poor people bitter, and nothing to do with the fact that they need more government help. Two things about Obama's SF fundraiser comments are at the root of the offense and the response today does absolutely nothing to address either of them. First is the elitism and condescension implicit in assuming that bitter people turn to stereotypical refuges as a way of coping. Second that one of those refuges is racism, and that racism is why he is disadvantaged.

****************************************************

UPDATE-jdusek points out below:

He said "people who are not like them." That could mean any number of things. People who live in big cities. People who don't believe in God. People who are pro-choice. People who are gay. There are lots of possible ways that someone might be different in their attitudes, beliefs and lifestyle that have nothing to do with race.

He suggests that I am too quick to ascribe Obama's comment entirely to race, and suggests it may just be one of the factors. This is a valid point. Given the context of the speech in SF, I am assuming that he was refering primarily to race, but it may be that age or a perception of religious difference is also a factor. Obama does bring up his race earlier in the speech saying:

Here's how it is: in a lot of these communities in big industrial states like Ohio and Pennsylvania, people have been beaten down so long, and they feel so betrayed by government, and when they hear a pitch that is premised on not being cynical about government, then a part of them just doesn't buy it. And when it's delivered by -- it's true that when it's delivered by a 46-year-old black man named Barack Obama (laugher), then that adds another layer of skepticism (laughter).

But he also mentions his age, so perhaps jdusek has a point. It is still very difficult for me to follow why it would make people more or less skepticle of a pitch about not being cynical about government that he was young and black, unless he is implying some sort of bias. So, essentially he is accusing these people of bias. I don't see any way around that.



Display:


remember how you (none / 0)

were writing diaries defending Hillary mispeaking about Bosnia?

And how you told everyone that peopel are makign too much out of the actual words and how what she meant vs what she said.

Think about that.


-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 05:56:12 PM EST

Re: remember how you (2.00 / 3)

In those diaries I admitted that she probably exaggerated, but that the offense was not that great, in light of what she did accomplish on the trip to Bosnia. I see it as a case of someone embellishing a story for effect and getting caught at it. This does certainly say something about her, but it is something that I don't take much offense at. Others do, I understand that.

These comments by Obama are an entirely differnet matter. This is not the case of a fib or a misstatement. This is a statement about how he views the people of PA and the rustbelt. He may be absolutely right, but he should then stick to his guns and stand up for what he said.

I am just pointing out what the words he used were and how he later clarified them. The clarification is illuminating in that he does not back off the ideas expressed at the fundraiser. He simply states the ideas more diplomatically, and leaves out the racial component. This should be the subject of discussion.


by MediaFreeze on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 06:05:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

let me put it this way (none / 0)

when people lose many things that are dear to them, they do cling to what beliefs they have left no matter how rational, irrational they are.

its elementary psych.

Obama is right, and whats worse is that you know that he is.


-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 06:33:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: let me put it this way (2.00 / 1)

Perhaps kindthoughts, but what would that have to do with their not supporting Obama?


by MediaFreeze on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 06:47:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

it does not (none / 0)

have anything with them supporting Obama. They can support whatever they want.

But Obama was right when he said. He might have phrased it incorrectly but he was still right.

People do cling to their beliefs about guns, abut religion and what not and blame others irrationally forgetting that other folks might have similar problems. People everywhere forget.


-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 06:56:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: it does not (2.00 / 1)

But the context of the comment was that he was explaining to the fdonors why he was having less success in PA and the rust belt...


by MediaFreeze on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 07:08:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

right (none / 0)

but he is fighting for his candidacy. What do you expect him to say?


-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 07:53:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Words That Matter - An Analysis (none / 0)

No, no.  I think the message of this is that there is always an attempt by the "powers that be" to define people's politics in terms of social issues.  What I take from his statement is that all of this matters (in the personal) but in the general, political, governmental, it is a distraction from the public mission that is government; i.e. economic relief, regulation of all sorts, etc.  Where this affects his campaign, I think, is this message:  It's not about your personal choices or personal values, it's about the government's (Obama if elected) ability to pay attention where attention needs to be paid, to not ignore you and be helpful in the way that government is helpful.  It made me think of Roosevelt's huge New Deal coalition that transcended most social boundaries in favor of helping a desperate country.

You turn to VOTING on these personal issues when there seems to be nothing else offered, in other words.


by mady on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 06:05:42 PM EST

Re: Obama's Words That Matter - An Analysis (none / 0)

Then why is he using these as reasons why they are not supportive of him? Where is the connection to why they would prefer Clinton in that situation?


by MediaFreeze on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 06:07:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Words That Matter - An Analysis (none / 0)

To follow my take on that; if you are convinced that these social issues are paramount in your choice of candidate, you are more likely to vote for a candidate that seems more "like yourself" comfortable, who makes a point of accentuating those particular social values in his/her campaign.  In this case, Clinton with her strong history in the state and a background that maybe can be identified with more.  She is a comfortable fit, is the more mainstream candidate.  I used the word appears rather than is, because policy-wise Obama and Clinton are remarkably similar, but totally different in personal histories.  


by mady on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 06:19:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Words That Matter - An Analysis (none / 0)

Perhaps. It is an interesting thought. You are saying that Obama is saying that poor disenfranchised people of PA and the rustbelt may think they have more in common with Hillary Clinton than they do with him, and that that would cause them to vote for her because they are bitter and angry.


by MediaFreeze on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 06:27:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Words That Matter - An Analysis (none / 0)

No, because the social issues have been pushed to the forefront as a cause to vote for a candidate (you figure out why that is so).  Once these  issues are in the forefront of your reason for voting, you will vote for the candidate who most fits your personal world view.  I can't explain it more than that.  


by mady on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 06:39:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Words That Matter - An Analysis (2.00 / 1)

Please try. What does:

most fits your personal world view

...mean. I'm not trying to be difficult. Why would that be Clinton over Obama?


by MediaFreeze on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 06:50:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

no one is saying oen over the other (none / 0)

Obama of course is making case for his candidacy as Hillary is for hers. What is that a big surprize?


-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 06:58:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Words That Matter - An Analysis (none / 0)

Who you grew up with, where you grew up.  What your parents did.  What kind of religious institution you attend.  How you feel about firearms.  What kind of exposure do you have to people who are unlike you in these ways (urban people tend to have contact with all sorts of  people, rural mostly similar to themselves).  All the things that make us comfortable in our own communities.  With Hillary, in small town PA, there is an assumption of almost consanguinity.  Obama is new and is an unknown quantity.  

I'm not trying to be difficult either, I just can't explain this further.  If it makes no sense to you, well you are totally entitled to your opinion.  Is just a blog comment.


by mady on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 07:01:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Words That Matter - An Analysis (2.00 / 1)

I hear you. It does seem like we are tiptoeing around the race issue though. Would you be more comfortable in stipulating that when people are under pressure they revert to cultural biases?

Perhaps my charge that he is suggesting racism is too strong, but I can not see how he is not accusing these people of bias against him stemming from their economic hardship. That seems to be what you are saying too.

It may be true, but it is certainly the problem that he faces for making these comments.


by MediaFreeze on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 07:57:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Words That Matter - An Analysis (none / 0)

I do not see it as racial at all, more of a question of his somewhat exotic personal history and style.  Read the portrait of his mother that's in one of the weeklies right now, he really was raised in a singular way.  


by mady on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 10:22:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Agreed, this and other portraits interesting. (2.00 / 2)

There have been a couple of long pieces in recent weeks on Senator Obama's early years, somewhat at odds with the version he tells. According to the articles, he was born and raised in his grandparents' house in Hawaii, except for when he joined his mother and step father and new sister in Indonesia for four years until she sent him back.

His mother was a college student, living with her parents because her father felt she was too young to be on her own.  She had never known a Black person except in a movie, Senator Obama said. She met his father in school. Barack Obama, Sr., who already had two wives and children in Kenya, had left Hawaii by the time Senator Obama was 9 months old.  Except for those four years, she continued her education and worked in Indonesia while Senator Obama lived with her parents.

Actually, not so singular.  Lots of young girls get pregnant and rely on their parents to raise the child while they pursue education and work or leave town. Bill  Clinton lived with his grandparents while his widowed mother went to nursing school and worked two jobs to pay for it.  He went to help in his grandfather's general store in the Black neighborhood after school every day.  And a whole lot of Black people have been raised by their grandmothers.

I feel for the young boy who felt rejected by his father and mother.  I was touched to read about his discovery of religion and the Black church experience in his mid twenties when he met Rev. Wright. I feel for his mother whose father named her Stanley after himself because he wanted a boy and wouldn't let her accept a scholarship to New York because he wanted to watch over her.  I see her quiet in the corner when the opinionated, exotic Kenyan was holding forth to arguing admirers  in the student union her freshman year.
And then pregnant, still living in her father's house, with him "watching over her".

I thought the articles were great, but they did not make me believe in Senator Obama more.  I read another long magazine piece last month where Senator Obama's best friend at Occidental was interviewed.  He was the first to call him Barack.  He told Senator Obama he though it was strong and that he should use that name instead of Barry.  The roommate spent the summer in a volunteer program in Kenya and was surprised that Senator Obama didn't want to go.  He is now homeless and jobless and  the campaign warned him not to bother the Senator with his troubles or speak to the press.  His version was different from the book, too.

The most telling thing I learned in the reporting was not so much the discrepancies all around.  Fine. Let a person's story be their story as it seems to them or as they want to remember it.  Fine.

What was most troubling was the references by people in Senator Obama's history who volunteered that that Barry Obama had accused them of racism to cover his poor performance.

I think that is exactly what he did when the donor in Marin County questioned him about his poor performance among Pennsylvania voters.


by itsadryheat on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 02:21:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Agreed, this and other portraits interesting. (none / 0)

Sigh.


by mady on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 02:37:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Words That Matter - An Analysis (none / 0)

Replace the phrase "cling to" with "focus their attention on". Would that have been better? Means the same thing.

Cling to can mean two things. It can mean cling to like Linus clings to his security blanket. It can also mean to cling onto something in defiance and refuse to let it go like several of the diarists on this site.


"Tell me about your work ethic." "Well, I don't think ethnics do no work. I mean, that's they problem, really." "Overt racial prejudice. Impressive."
by vcalzone on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 06:06:08 PM EST

Re: Obama's Words That Matter - An Analysis (none / 0)

You could do that, but it doesn't change the underlying meaning of his statement. His response is much more diplomatically worded, but it doesn't stray from the idea that bitter people resort to stereotypical reactionary behavior, and that that somehow disfavors Obama. I'm just asking why that is the case?


by MediaFreeze on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 06:11:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Words That Matter - An Analysis (none / 0)

Obama called working class americans in small towns bitter because of lost manufacturing jobs that happened when the Clintons passed NAFTA.  Also, he is right on all counts.  Bush said that he would help these blue collar workers and did nothing.  The Clintons screwed these blue collar workers when they passed NAFTA, and since then nothing has been done to help these towns, and that is the truth.  Obama is saying that he sees the truth and he won't lie about it, and he also wants to change things and actually do somehting for them.  Bill Clinton is for free trade agreements with Colombia, and Penn is for free trade agreements with Colombia, and Hillary is married to Bill and Penn is still her top advisor no matter what she says. If blue collar workers really believe that the Clintons have changed,  will be in for a big disappointment.  

Also, Mudcat, you need to get your head out of your ass, and start supporting the one man who will actually do something to help small town USA.


by Spanky on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 06:09:45 PM EST

Re: Obama's Words That Matter - An Analysis (2.00 / 1)

In one short comment he generalizes that an entire segment of the population, because they are poor and bitter, among other stereotypical characteristics, harbor racial animosity.

Not necessarily.

He said "people who are not like them." That could mean any number of things. People who live in big cities. People who don't believe in God. People who are pro-choice. People who are gay. There are lots of possible ways that someone might be different in their attitudes, beliefs and lifestyle that have nothing to do with race.

Sure, race could ALSO be one way that people are different, but it's a mistake to assume that's the only difference that qualifies.


by jdusek on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 06:13:27 PM EST

Re: Obama's Words That Matter - An Analysis (none / 0)

Perhaps you are right. I was assuming that he was using a code word for racial difference in that context since it was about why they were less likely to vote for him. Perhaps it is some other way in which he is different from them. Still, it's hard for me to think of a way in which he is disadvantaged vs. Clinton and McCain by any other differences. He is a lot less wealthy than she is. Perhaps because he is young and erudite. I don't know. You have a point.


by MediaFreeze on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 06:18:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Words That Matter - An Analysis (none / 0)

Thanks. I don't disagree that racial differences are a concern for some rural Americans, I just don't think it's the only type of difference that they're concerned about. I live in the Midwest, and there are plenty of people in rural areas here that harbor irrational fears of Muslims, for example. So, perceived religious differences are an issue, even though Obama shares their faith in Jesus. I don't pretend to know exactly what Obama meant by his comment, but I believe he was talking more generally about dislike for those who are different than about hatred of people who are non-white.


by jdusek on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 06:52:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

He's been claiming racism to excuse performance (2.00 / 2)

He has been claiming racism as an excuse for performance for a very long time, according to the big Newsweek special on him a couple of weeks ago.

The reporters interviewed his High School basketball coach who said Barry Obama accused him of racism after the coach had benched Barry during a game.  The coach said he explained to Barry that it was not racism but that the reason he took Barry out of the game was that he had just taken two bad shots in a row!

The reporters interviewed a professor whom Obama had accused of racism in college.  The professor countered that  Barry had gotten  the grade he didn't like because he was bright enough but would not do the work to earn a better grade.

Sound familiear?


by itsadryheat on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 06:55:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Words That Matter - An Analysis (none / 0)

Is there anyone who believes that on the Ohio Ballot was this?
http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2004/10 /09/loc_gaymarriage09side.html
"If you want to end war and stuff, you gotta sing loud"...Arlo Guthrie
by nogo war on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 06:38:26 PM EST

Re: Obama's Words That Matter - An Analysis (2.00 / 1)

This is an excellent, careful, objective analysis -not only of Obama's SF comments and his attempts to explain the offenses away, but of the subtle and not-so-subtle techniques he uses to curry favor with the current audiences and to shift blame/divert any negative fallout from himself when he blunders. And oh, yes, here we go again, if people don't like him, it must be racism.  


by tornsneaker on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 06:58:25 PM EST

Fundamental Misunderstanding-- (2.00 / 1)

on Obama's part.

It's not bitterness to cling to their religion.  It is cultural tradition, moral underpinning of community life, and a source of pride.

It does seem to be bitterness that helped him find his own religion though, and his own pastor.

He's an elitist and it is his pastor who is the embodiment of bitterness.


by chieflytrue on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 07:08:07 PM EST

He's referring to tribalism (2.00 / 1)

Pinning all of this "bitterness" stuff on his pastor is a "fundamental misunderstanding" on your part.

The cultural tradition and pride you mention are aspects of tribalism. When people are oppressed they tend to close themselves off from  the world. They tend to trust people and ideas from their tribes (e.g., other cops in their precinct, red sox or yankees fans, etc.) and mistrust people and ideas from other tribes that may be able to help them. In a sense, their values become more important to them than their own self-interest.

Obama is not saying anything new here, though he said it inelegantly. Respected people from both the right and the left have studied tribalism in an effort to understand why people sometimes act irrationally by "our" standards. Usually it's in the context of trying to understand the link between poverty and terrorism, but it's useful for studying other things too. The BHO-HRC divide among dems comes to mind. ;-)

He's just trying to have some empathy for people who disagree with him, and looking at it in tribal terms helps him do that.


by professor on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 10:43:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Words, Just Words (2.00 / 1)

Words are all Obama has, so when those are wrong or taken as wrong then he is nothing.


I didn't believe in god before the primaries and I still don't.
by NewHampster on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 07:34:18 PM EST

Re: Obama's Words That Matter - (2.00 / 2)

One thing I find interesting in all this is that Obama is conceding that he can't win the votes of blue collar voters. Isn't he pretty much conceding that he isn't electable then? If he can't win those votes then it means that he can't win against McCain either.


No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!
by Ga6thDem on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 08:40:45 PM EST


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