Bitter White Male Union Member Laughs ? See you in GE

by libdemusa, Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 02:22:00 PM EST

I noticed at least two diaries doing the "LOL" in addressing the brilliant comment by Senator Barack Obama on us working class "bitter" white people.

Do I sense a nervous Laugh ????

I am a White Male Union member. A Proud product of an Irish/Italian working class household. Never completed my college degree but has managed to have a relatively succesful life. Thanks to the opportunities available to us courtesy of this great nation.

I live in South Jersey, 25 miles out of Philly, PA.

Every single Obama fan here can brush this off. They can dismiss it as "no big deal".

But make no mistake about, this is & will be a Big Deal in November.

And make no mistake about, Faux news did not create this one. This is All Barack Obama. From start to finish. Republicans can & should latch on to this. Why, because it is a big deal. It is offensive & they should call the honorable Obama on this.

This comment reminds democrats ( who are not under the Obama spell) of John Kerry all over again.

Its amazing how Barack Obama happens to
 " Offend" & "Turn-off" the very same group of "working class white people" who are already  "Extremely Hesistant" as it as in
supporting him in November.

Between his association with the racist Rev. Wright & this latest insult, THIS NOVEMBER WON'T EVEN BE CLOSE !

Lets see if the same people Joking about this will be able to crack a smile on the eve on November 4th.

I could not help notice an "LOL"  comment by BCDEM on the other diary. BCDEM, You are an African-American person. Would you find this funny if Hillary Clinton dismissed the " Complaints of poor black people as mere bitterness because of their economic conditions & past slavery" ???

I wonder if the liberal elite college educated Jewish-Americans heavily represented in MYDD would find it "funny" if Senator Obama directed his "offensive" comments against Jewish americans. Would you simply brush it off my jewish brothers?

Would I hear a "Laugh Out Loud" out of you ?

Never mind, the Same Working class whites offended by Obama will have the Last Laugh in November.

How do I know ? Because I'm one of them.

And yes, there are Millions of us " bitter" white people, democrats & republicans all bitter - as the honorable Senator Obama describes us.

The Media & the Entire Liberal Democratic establishment in November will look back to April 10, 2008 as the "KEY" comment that "Severely Damaged" Any Hope of Obama winning the LARGE NUMBERS of WHITE WORKING CLASS REAGAN DEMOCRATS that he DESPERATELY NEEDS in November.

As Ralph Maratto,Christopher Dolan,& John Esposito, three veteran union PA leaders( & "white bitter working class men")  Predicted on Air America yesterday- Millions of working class whites will bury the Obama campaign in November. It would be the biggest crossover of democratic white voters since 1984.  

Good Job Barack. Now lets all do a LOL !




Tags: White Male, Obama, Bitter (all tags)

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Re: Bitter White Male Union Member Laughs ? See yo (2.00 / 1)

Um...

working class white here, ten minutes from North Central PA. And I'm sick of being told that any three words taken from Obama's mouth and twisted to suit the Republican's agenda of "don't look behind the curtain" are enough for me to not only give up support for a candidate that actually believes in telling the truth and not backing down, but my support in people that they can see this for what it is. A poorly planned attack that backfired horribly upon the people that sought to twist it to their advantage.


by upstate girl on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 02:26:03 PM EST

Re: Bitter White Male Union Member Laughs ? See yo (2.00 / 1)

and you somehow think that you represent the average bitter person in question????

most of these folks do not frequent internet liberal boards, they have kids, church events, target practice...

you elitists just dont get it, maybe you just refuse to, but time will tell

and oh yes, lol


by blackflag on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 02:30:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bitter White Male Union Member Laughs ? See yo (2.00 / 2)

"You elitists". Look how easily Republican smear names flow from your mouth. You'd almost think you weren't actually a Democratic party member, the way you so quickly forget that's exactly how the GOP slanders any Democratic or liberal candidate.

How do you know I don't represent the "average bitter person" in question? I 100% agree with Obama's statements, and considering he was talking about all the people in PA that have come to him and said how they feel, I have a pretty good idea he was talking about a feeling that is represented pretty well by myself and my situation.

And I guess we could go into who has it rougher, and therefore who is more "elitist", but that's a ridiculous game, and it doesn't address the real issue - that unless people like yourself quit buying into the dog whistle, McCain is going to waltz into the White House and that benefits no one at all.


by upstate girl on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 02:34:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: why lord why? (none / 0)

Boy, that was....classless.

If perpetuating stereotypes about an uneducated rural voter was your goal, you succeeded admirably.


by upstate girl on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 03:03:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: why do you assume (none / 0)

Oh come on, this is a horrible troll. Why don't you tell me exactly what you were saying with this biting commentary done in an uneducated patois:

"darn, why isnt us 'typical" white hillbillys all knowadjable about such fine things like this Obama gurl?  

then wee too would also'n know how dum we is not to see how much Mr. Obama loves us confused bitter "folks" sooo much.

it just frustratins me so much, it makes me wants to go outside and shoots myself a mexicant.

maybe insteads, better Ill go and prays on my trubles and CLING to my, the lord.

if thats ok with yew folks..."

I honestly have no idea what you're trying to get across here, but you did it poorly and with virtually no class (or point, or purpose, or reason). If you want to fall back on stereotypes to try to make...some kind of point, I guess that's your right, but wow does it make you look childish.


by upstate girl on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 03:46:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: why lord why? (none / 0)

That's pretty amusing, considering I know a goodly number of non-whites in upper central PA that feel just as strongly that the government has screwed them over, and religion is one of their strongholds.

Thanks for attempting to shove the race card back through the slot, though.


by upstate girl on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 03:48:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bitter White Male Union Member Laughs ? See yo (2.00 / 2)

I don't know if you're seeing what the 'real'  problem is. The problem is not that Obama was indeed being elitist or condescending (which is open for debate). The problem is that he is making the missteps that allow Republicans to label Democrats as egg-headed, elitist, condescending, John Kerry, etc. It doesn't matter that Obama was trying to explain, as a rich, well-educated black man, why white, middle-class Americans are "bitter." It was his choice of words, and for the white middle-class person to hear that, well, it is probably going to rub a lot of them the wrong way. See, unlike you, not every middle class white person is absolutely dedicated to Obama's presidency. The comments they make on the trail does influence how they feel about the candidates. I doubt these comments will change the Democratic nomination too much, but I do think it will help Hillary win, and I do think it's comments such as these that will cause McCain to trounce Obama in the GE.


by bawhite on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 03:03:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bitter White Male Union Member Laughs ? See yo (none / 0)

After the Wright episode - which was a lot more damaging than three words taken out of context - failed to "explode" like the pundits and the concern trolls swore it would...well frankly, I just don't see why this is now the REAL dealbreaker. Especially when much more troubling, and serious, issues are at the forefront of people's minds. McCain was a member of the Keating Five, for pete's sake. There's a real "influence" on how the voters feel.


by upstate girl on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 03:09:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bitter White Male Union Member Laughs ? See yo (none / 0)

If you think there won't be blowback from the Wright mess, then boy do I have a bridge to sell you.

Right now, I don't care what the polls say. I have two previous Presidential elections to point to where the worse candidate "won". While we can debate the validity of 2000, 3 million more popular votes in 2004 say that John McCain CAN win against Barack Obama.

The fact that Bill Clinton was the only successful Democratic Presidency of the past 40 years means Obama's hill is much steeper to climb regardless of the recent GOP track record.

Many Dems, such as myself, will absolutely refuse to vote for Obama this November should he be the nominee simply because we refuse to be a party to the mess that will follow. I have yet to see any rationale that qualifies this man to hold the highest office in the land, especially considering when he can't even unite the party behind him.

As I said elsewhere, to those who claim Hillary hasn't either, my response is that she has. Her support is primarily the core Democratic base. Without his GOP and independent votes and caucus wins, he's dead in the water.

This is why the Super-Delegates need to thank him for all those new voters and send him offstage while giving us a real Dem to vote for. At least we know she can beat any and all GOP opposition.


by SoCalHillMan on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 10:39:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bitter White Male Union Member Laughs ? See yo (none / 0)

Obama may very well be an elist...but so is the lady from Chappaqua and the man from....well I don't know exactly where in Arizona he lives, but I'm sure it's elist.


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 03:48:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bitter White Male Union Member Laughs ? See yo (none / 0)

I think McCain has like 10 houses and a private jet or something.

But yeah, he's not an elitist at all


by CaptMorgan on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 04:24:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I used to live in Chappaqua (none / 0)

and we were not elitists.  We had kids in school, were soccer coachs, scout leaders, class parents, went to church or temple, and just like Bill Clinton likes to do, visited the local deli for breakfast and talk.

We loved seeing Bill in town.  And while they have a very nice house, it's not a mansion, just a beautiful old home.  (Any new work was added by the Secret Service - oh, and they put a pool in, too.)


by CoyoteCreek on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 04:45:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bitter White Male Union Member Laughs ? See yo (none / 0)

Listen upstategirl,

Dismiss it all you want. In fact, all the Obama people here can brush this off. It does not change on thing.

Come November, that's when reality hits baby !

P.S. Imagine for one second. If Bill Clinton said this exact Same Comment about "Poor Black People",
Bill Clinton would be called a Racist Non-Stop by Jesse, Al, MYDD & KOS bloggers, & the entire Liberal white elite.

No girl, this is real.  You may not be offended by it. Your mother my not be offended by it.
But yes, millions of us are offended by it. That's all that matters baby.

We are more than enough to give McCain an electoral landslide not seen since Dukakis & Mondale.

It was hard enough convincing my fellow white union members from supporting Obama in he fall.

This one just kills it.

Yesterday, many white union members are actually very excited to have Obama as the nominee in November. Now they have a Legimate Reason to vote for McCain without being labeled a racist.

Bitter will do.


by libdemusa on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 02:38:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bitter White Male Union Member Laughs ? See yo (none / 0)

You keep saying this offended you and other, but you never say what you were offended by.

Can you explain exactly what offended you and why?  Because if you don't, and just claim "offense", it just seems like partisan opportunism.


by bawbie on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 02:42:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bitter White Male Union Member Laughs ? See yo (2.00 / 1)

Although I can agree with some of the sentiments Obama began to express in his statement, the part about a persons "bitterness causing them to cling to guns and religion, anti-immigrant, anti-trade sentiments" was very condescending, and I am surprised more people don't see this.  Even Obama himself thought it was an ill-advised statement.  I can see how people would be offended by this - it appears to paint a broad brush of implying these people are "bitter, gun-toting, bible-thumping, immigrant-hating" people too stupid to know better.  I get a mental picture of Yosemite Sam.  With all the talk about the Obama/Clinton contest dividing the party - I think the real culprit is the media, which incessantly pushes identity politics in this election like nothing I've ever seen before. That is what, if anything, will divide the Democratic Party.  


by AnnC on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 02:56:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bitter White Male Union Member Laughs ? See yo (none / 0)

No, he didn't think it was ill advised. He said he could have worded it better. But he certainly didn't back down from the truth. And identity politics will only separate us as long as we let it. Saying things will never change, or blaming the media instead of the people that actually got us in this mess, is the antithesis of the progressive movement.


by upstate girl on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 03:11:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bitter White Male Union Member Laughs ? See yo (none / 0)

 
Do you honestly believe that anti-trade sentiment is equivalent to "God, guns, and gays" social conservatism? Becasue that is exact what Obama is implying with his remarks, not to mention just how condescending his whole analysis is.
Fortune strums a mournful tune for those whose campaigns peak too soon. --Bored of the Rings
by Inky on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 03:23:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bitter White Male Union Member Laughs ? See yo (none / 0)

Mmmhmmm. The same people that were going to be so offended over a 5 second out of context clip by Reverend Wright that Obama should quit the race! He's unelectable! Its obvious!

...except it didn't even bump his support a month later.

I have a very, very difficult time believing that if Reverend Wright wasn't enough ammunition for the GOP to take down Obama, that three little words will do the trick. I could be wrong, of course, but so far its been the doomsayers that have been proven wrong.


by upstate girl on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 02:42:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bitter White Male Union Member Laughs ? See yo (none / 0)

Yesterday, many white union members are actually very excited to have Obama as the nominee in November. Now they have a Legimate Reason to vote for McCain without being labeled a racist.

But they're going to vote for Hillary Clinton?


by BlueinColorado on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 02:49:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bitter White Male Union Member Laughs ? See yo (none / 0)

You've said that before - and before this issue broke.

http://www.mydd.com/comments/2008/4/7/12 39/29565/18#18

So this is just a continuation of your typical claim that Obama can't win.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 03:32:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bitter White Male Union Member Laughs ? See yo (none / 0)

You know who I miss? Universal. If he were still here, he'd be posting a diary about who even though he supported Hillary he'd had an open mind about Obama and he'd planned to vote for the winner of the primary but now, after the Outrage-O'the-Day, he had come to the difficult conclusion that he just could not, in good conscience, vote for Obama, he just couldn't.

He came to that difficult conclusion every other day for three months.

Good times.


by BlueinColorado on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 03:35:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bitter White Male Union Member Laughs (none / 0)

Okay. Keep piling on. Keep echoing the GOP spin.

She can't beat McCain. He can.

What do you really want to happen in November.


by BlueinColorado on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 02:31:18 PM EST

Re: Bitter White Male Union Member Laughs ? (2.00 / 1)

If you're not bitter about the state of this country you're not paying attention.

LOL at this diary.


Voting for John McCain is not God bless America.
by SFValues on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 02:32:57 PM EST

Do not tell me that 3/4 (none / 0)

of this country is not bitter after 8 years of bush.


-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 02:40:12 PM EST

Re: Do not tell me that 3/4 (none / 0)

I am apart of the 75% that disapprove of Bush, but I am not bitter about my country or my life.

Thanks.


by reggie44pride on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 02:46:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

in that case go toalk to peopel who have (none / 0)

lost their jobs


-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 02:47:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: in that case go toalk to peopel who have (none / 0)

I have through several economic downturns.  I was old enough to vote in 1980, so I've definitely seen my share of lost jobs.

Still not bitter.  


by reggie44pride on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 02:50:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

thats fine (none / 0)

but like I said go talk to other people who lost their jobs, their houses, who've seen their saving go down the enron drain and all.


-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 02:59:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: in that case go toalk to peopel who have (none / 0)

That's sad then... it's too bad that thousands of deaths mean nothing to you


by CaptMorgan on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 04:35:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: in that case go toalk to peopel who have (2.00 / 1)

I just got off a lay-off of 3 months, my husband lost his job after 9/11 in a massive lay-off, was out of work for almost 2 years, and we are still recovering financially.  Neither one of us consider ourselves bitter.  Although I am not religious, my husband is very religious.  He was offended (as I'm sure others were) by the comment that people, in their bitterness, "cling to religion".  For many people, religion is an important part of their life, in good times or bad.  To imply that is is a tool used to escape the bitterness people feel is offensive.  It is a joyous thing to many people - from all walks of life - poor and wealthy alike.  


by AnnC on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 03:13:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: in that case go toalk to peopel who have (none / 0)

Of course it is. Which is why people find solace in their faith when times are hard. What's so offensive about that?

What should be offensive is how the GOP uses people's heartfelt faith and twists it into anti-gay propaganda, covering up horrible economic/education/war policies by wrapping themselves in the flag and Jesus.

As someone raised with strong religious faith, that is the offensive situation to me.


by upstate girl on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 03:17:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Do not tell me that 3/4 (none / 0)

Good, then Obama didn't say anything to offend you then.

You can love your country and be bitterly disappointed in your elected representatives. The two things are not mutually exclusive, and Obama never said anything close to the effect that it was otherwise.


by upstate girl on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 02:49:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Do not tell me that 3/4 (none / 0)

And that is a good thing. You work hard and you hope that you don't wind up bitter about your life. But truth is some people are just not making it no matter how hard they try.


_____________
changiness
by lizardbox on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 02:52:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Do not tell me that 3/4 (none / 0)

Someone once said, if you're not angry, you're not paying attention.


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 03:50:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

re (none / 0)

Barack Obama is John Kerry with a better speaking voice.


by rossinatl on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 02:44:29 PM EST

Re: re (2.00 / 1)

And Hillary Clinton is Bill Clinton without the charisma, without Ross Perot, and with a vote for George Bush's war.


by BlueinColorado on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 02:50:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bitter White Male Union Member Laughs ? (none / 0)

libdemusa,

You sound, hmmm, how can I describe it?

Bitter


Voting for John McCain is not God bless America.
by SFValues on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 02:46:41 PM EST

Re: Bitter White Male Union Member Laughs ? (none / 0)

There is something ironic about you decrying this diary, which attack "elitism," when your SN is "SFValues."

Just sayin'


by reggie44pride on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 02:48:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bitter White Male Union Member Laughs ? (none / 0)

Can't say I get your point. What do you mean by that?


Voting for John McCain is not God bless America.
by SFValues on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 02:51:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bitter White Male Union Member Laughs ? (none / 0)

Oh awesome, the San Fransisco strawman. Let's pit Californians against Pennsylvanians. Let's forget that we're all part of the same country, that when one of us sinks we're all the worse for it.

Keep falling for the same GOP smoke and mirrors that its not really the elected officials that exhibit disdain for the American people - its those elite liberals in San Francisco?

Really, could you be any more stereotypical?


by upstate girl on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 02:51:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bitter White Male Union Member Laughs ? (none / 0)

I've lived and loved on both coasts.

There is something unique about the values of SF compared with rural values, or those called "Midwestern values."  

Yes, it's the same country, but not everyone is the same within it.


by reggie44pride on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 03:00:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bitter White Male Union Member Laughs ? (2.00 / 1)

Ah yes, that fake division between the heartland and the urban liberal elite. The liberal elite aren't looking out for your best interests, as the boogeyman from the GOP likes to say.

Its amazing how when people look at the policy and the track record, how much more often they're a lot more "liberal" than they might think. Getting out of a pointless, senseless war, fixing our economy, creating new jobs, funding better education at all levels - those aren't "San Fransisco" or "Midwestern" values. Those are the values of the vast, vast majority of Americans.

The more you let imaginary divisions come between Democratic voters, the better the GOP can exploit that to remain in power.


by upstate girl on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 03:06:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bitter White Male Union Member Laughs ? (none / 0)

San Francisco is a transient city with people from all over the country and the world for that matter.

Just because Fox News and Bill O'Reilly want to paint us all with a single broad brush, doesn't mean a few clips from the gay pride parade represent all the values represented within this city.

We're a melting pot, just like the rest of the country.


Voting for John McCain is not God bless America.
by SFValues on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 03:11:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bitter White Male Union Member Laughs ? (none / 0)

Look, I just call it as I see it.

There is a lot of overlap in the urban and rural value system.

Think of it as a venn diagram.

But there are parts where they do not overlap.

Or are you unable to see that?


by reggie44pride on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 03:11:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bitter White Male Union Member Laughs ? (none / 0)

Well, it would certainly help if you were a bit more clear in what values you consider each "side" to have that don't interact with the other. As it is you're doing a lot of wink wink implication, and its dancing around what you really want to say but so far can only imply.


by upstate girl on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 03:14:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bitter White Male Union Member Laughs ? (none / 0)

You could make such a diagram about people who live in different parts of any state. You could make such a diagram about people who live in various parts of San Francisco.

Your implication is that I'm one of the elitists that don't understand the rural folk. And the entire basis of your claim is the city I live in.


Voting for John McCain is not God bless America.
by SFValues on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 03:21:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bitter White Male Union Member (none / 0)

The Boss will hold a concert for Obama in late October to make sure NJ is safely in his corner.

Plus, Obama will turn NV, CO, MT, AK, and perhaps even WY, blue.  So he doesn't need PA.


by reggie44pride on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 02:48:03 PM EST

Re: Bitter White Male Union Member Laughs ? See yo (2.00 / 2)

It's disturbing that Obama supporters can just look at this comment and brush it off their shoulder.

No matter which way you slice it, he screwed up.  I've read it in context, watched it in context, and I personally felt offended.  There are millions out there who feel the same way, and those millions are the kind of people that Obama needs to win over in November.

Over the last few days, it has become disturbingly clear that Obama and his supporters know how to win a Democratic primary, but don't (yet) know how to win a General Election.

If Obama is the nominee, I hope that he and his supporters will stop their high-horse attitude and win the election.  In the meantime, though, it is startlingly apparent that they are lacking in this area.


No candidacy is more important than the right to vote.
by hornplayer on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 02:51:19 PM EST

Re: Bitter White Male Union Member Laughs ? See yo (none / 0)

Millions, huh? Where are you getting that number from? The same millions that would leave Obama's campaign in droves after Reverend Wright's comments were taken out of context?

You don't even have precedent for your predictions. And as far as high-horse attitude goes, I don't want a candidate that backs down from telling the truth, even when he's attacked unfairly and maliciously for it by the GOP right wing.


by upstate girl on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 02:53:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bitter White Male Union Member Laughs ? See yo (none / 0)

I don't understand how "God damn America" can be taken out of context.  Reverend Wright, although I believe (personally) that he is a good Reverend for the people who attend his church and the community he lives in, was a dangerous person for Obama to have associated himself so closely with.  If he couldn't see that, it demonstrates a remarkable blindness to the beliefs of mainstream American culture.

It's very, very clear that this comment is not baseless to state that there are people out there who have been upset by this comment, and even worse, it plays right into Obama's failings as a candidate--that he is an internationalist, liberal elitist, and out of touch with the concerns and actuality of what it is to be a member of the middle class in America.

I have seen several of your comments regarding this issue on the blog already, and you, like many Obama supporters, seem willingly out-of-touch with what the feelings and issues of American voters are.  I just don't understand how anyone can look at Barack Obama's statements and refuse to acknowledge that they simply won't play in Peoria.


No candidacy is more important than the right to vote.
by hornplayer on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 02:58:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bitter White Male Union Member Laughs ? See yo (none / 0)

I don't understand how "God damn America" can be taken out of context.

well, here's the context:

"God damn America ... for killing innocent people.
"God damn America for threatening citizens as less than humans.
"God damn America as long as she tries to act like she is God and supreme."

(I'm having trouble, tellingly, finding the full text of Wright's sermons, but I remember this second line as being "for treating citizens as less than human".)

I guess it depends on how seriously you take Christian values and the idea of damnation. I'm a secular agnostic myself, but I have a great deal of respect for true Christianity. All that feed the poor stuff, caring for the sick, peace. What could be more Xian than calling for everyone to love their neighbors as they love themselves, or God. What could be more American than positing that all citizens should be equal before the law and the government?

Granted, it's not a helpful statement politically, but in terms of Xianity (Wright's frame of reference, Bush's, McCain's if one of his advisors reminds him ) or Enlightenment humanism (mine), and if you take "damnation" to mean "condemnation" rather than some supernatural underworld, he wasn't wrong.

(post recycled and modified)


by BlueinColorado on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 03:08:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bitter White Male Union Member Laughs ? See yo (none / 0)

Unfortunately, swing voters are hardly as enlightened as you.  If only they were.


No candidacy is more important than the right to vote.
by hornplayer on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 03:25:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bitter White Male Union Member Laughs ? See yo (none / 0)

And yet, no polling results anywhere show that he's lost that swing vote since Rev. Wright.

Its hard to make claims when reality doesn't back them up. And you can only say "just wait! it'll happen!" before people just wander away.


by upstate girl on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 03:26:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bitter White Male Union Member Laughs ? See yo (none / 0)

You're implying that swing voters can't read? or follow an argument that lasts longer than a bumper sticker? What a terrible, terrible elitist thing to say! And you're a Hillary supporter! Therefore her campaign is doomed! Doomed I say!

I am now going to cry over your elitism.

(Though, as upstate girl points out, there's no evidence that your contemptuous disdain for swing voters is based in fact).


by BlueinColorado on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 03:30:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: put this one in "context" (none / 0)

At some point, you're going to have to understand that Reverend Wright isn't the one running for the Presidency.


by upstate girl on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 04:01:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "They". all sound alike to me (none / 0)

For someone who so concisely personifies every ill-informed, knee-jerk talking point, its quite ironic you're railing against the perceived use of the word "them".


by upstate girl on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 04:19:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ooh (none / 0)

Its such a telling factor that you happily use the same meaningless insult that the GOP uses to detract people away from the real issues. I'm sorry, that's a charge that has little to no meaning in an election year as vital as this one. It didn't work this morning when McCain used it against Obama, and its not working now against your fellow Democrats.


by upstate girl on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 04:56:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "They". all sound alike to me (none / 0)

actually, he was defending "them" from a specific charge of racism.

Why am I not surprised you're railing on and on when you don't even know the most basic facts.

Calvinball.


by BlueinColorado on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 04:21:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "They". all sound alike to me (none / 0)

I have not know a fact...? Huh?


by BlueinColorado on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 04:45:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "They". all sound alike to me (none / 0)

Just curious: Were you actually threatening to kill me on that other thread? Just because I pointed out your misspelling?

Pally, you gotta work on your anger management.

http://www.mydd.com/comments/2008/4/12/1 43643/214/18#18


by BlueinColorado on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 04:58:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: of course (none / 0)

I have? Funny. I don't ever remember saying it.

Someone at the fundraiser asked him if he thought race was an issue in his lagging support from blue-collar whites in PA.

He said, "No".

It's not complicated.


by BlueinColorado on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 04:49:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: put this one in "context" (none / 0)

I didn't bring up Rev Wright. Someone else mentioned one of his comments, and he's not running.

Someone else suggested that there's no contradiction in Hillary campaigning against Columbian trade while Bill and Mark Penn cash checks for selling it.

But Obama is responsible for every word spoken by his eighty-year-old retired pastor?

I love watching you people play political Calvinball.


by BlueinColorado on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 04:18:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: put this one in "context" (none / 0)

Um that's a legitimate point of contention among historians... and it's not considered a ridiculous view (although it may be a minority view) in academic circles.

You might want to do a little research before spouting off


by CaptMorgan on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 04:37:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bitter White Male Union Member Laughs ? See yo (none / 0)

Obama and his supporters do indeed know how to win a primary. However, you need to join us in the GE, and we'll do then what we have done now. We will win this, but not without your help.

Make no mistake about it, call it a gaffe, a stupid remark, a mistake, a misstatement. Call it anything you want. His bitter comment should not insult anyone in this country as much as the fact that over 4,000 of our brave men and women died in an unnecessary war waged by Bush, and to be continued by McCain. That is the true insult.


_____________
changiness
by lizardbox on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 02:57:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bitter White Male Union Member Laughs ? See yo (2.00 / 1)

Even if I have to hold my nose while I pull the lever for Obama, I will.  But there are far more people out there who will sway between Obama and McCain (IF he is the nominee--I still think HRC can pull it out) than there are people like me, and any way you slice it, this gaffe isn't a good thing for Barack Obama.  To deny that, furthermore, is not going to help the candidate.


No candidacy is more important than the right to vote.
by hornplayer on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 03:00:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bitter White Male Union Member Laughs ? See yo (none / 0)

This "gaffe" will hurt him with the Republicans. They have and will attack him on it. Now, the democrats? Remember how in one of the debates, how some moderator asked Biden about his comments about Obama and how they were considered racist? Remember how Obama said that he knew Biden well and there isn't a racist bone in the man's body? That's what Democrats do when such "gaffes" take place.

This said, though a staunch Obama supporter, somehow, someway, I think Clinton will end up being the nominee.


_____________
changiness
by lizardbox on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 03:12:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bitter White Male Union Member Laughs ? See yo (none / 0)

I'm quite confused by your comment.

You say that this context, which you have claimed to listen to in context, offends you.

Yet you never say what about it offends you.  Can you explain that?

Also, what the hell is a "high-horse attitude"?

I'd also like to point out that we are still in the primary election and neither Obama nor his supporters have started running the general election yet.


by bawbie on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 02:59:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bitter White Male Union Member Laughs ? See yo (2.00 / 1)

I'll explain my feelings on this issue, which I believe is probably the same sentiments felt by others who have taken issue with his statement.

It offends me that Barack Obama looks at these people nearly as two-dimensional caricatures, "clinging" to issues like religion and guns out of their bitterness.  I grew up in the midwest, in these societies, and these are good people with legitimate concerns, even if they are religious issues or gun right issues or abortion issues that I happen to disagree with them on.  They don't "cling" to these issues out of bitterness, they view them as important.

I think Barack Obama just doesn't understand what it is to be a middle-class American, or what it is to live (and moreover, work) in hard economic times in America.  I personally feel that this one incident is a symptom of a greater flaw in Barack Obama's candidacy.  To reduce hard-working Americans to bitter people who cling to irrelevant issues comes off, to me, as elitist arrogance.  If you feel differently, that's okay; but to deny that myself and others find something wrong in these comments, and that this gaffe doesn't matter, simply does not line up with reality.

I hope this gives you a little bit of insight on what the issue is here :-).


No candidacy is more important than the right to vote.
by hornplayer on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 03:10:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bitter White Male Union Member Laughs ? See yo (none / 0)

So basically you don't understand a word he says.  His entire point was that these people feel that their church, etc is the only thing they can depend on because they've lost faith in their govt.

He's NOT saying that people are religious BECAUSE of their economic situation at all.. that's blatant twisting


by CaptMorgan on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 04:39:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bitter White Male Union Member Laughs ? See yo (none / 0)

Its pretty easy.

We are supposed to worry that someone who dislikes all these liberal elitist jewish mydders wants to vote for McCain?

Why?  We don't need the most conservative Republicans.  Getting the more liberal ones would be fine.


www.functionalforums.com
by TerraFF on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 03:00:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bitter White Male Union Member Laughs ? See yo (none / 0)

Many--if not most--of the more liberal ones we need to win over are these factory workers in the rust belt, whom Obama has been tripping over himself at every turn trying to get votes from them.


No candidacy is more important than the right to vote.
by hornplayer on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 03:02:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bitter White Male Union Member Laughs ? See yo (none / 0)

You mean like when he lied about Clinton's position on NAFTA while his wife and chief advisor were cashing checks for trying to push through a "free trade" deal with Columbia...

Oh, wait a minute, got that backwards, didn't I?

Maybe you mean when he pandered on guns...

D'oh! Got another one backwards, didn't I?


by BlueinColorado on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 03:11:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bitter White Male Union Member Laughs ? See yo (none / 0)

I don't understand why it isn't okay for husbands and wives and different people in a campaign to disagree on issues.


No candidacy is more important than the right to vote.
by hornplayer on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 03:14:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bitter White Male Union Member Laughs ? See yo (none / 0)

Those are the conservative democrats that Obama has a hard time winning over.

The liberal republicans he is already winning pretty handily.  Thats a good part of how he is beating Clinton.

Obama is simply running more on ideas than partisanship.  It is understandable that he would lose some conservatives and gain liberals.


www.functionalforums.com
by TerraFF on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 03:13:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bitter White Male Union Member Laughs ? See yo (none / 0)

If the conservative blue-collar Democrats in IA, OH, MI, PA, and MO (a state many have claimed as a BO strongpoint) don't turn out to vote for Obama, he will not win in the fall.  Barack Obama has made it painfully apparent in the last few weeks that he is unable to connect with these voters.

Liberal Republicans like McCain.  If anything, I'd say this segment of the Republican Party is more enthusiastic about John McCain than any other.  I think he will have a very, very difficult time trying to cut into this section of the electorate going into the Fall, even if he is winning many of them over in the primaries.  It's a long road 'til November, and I feel like Obama's campaign in PA, backed by a treasure chest that is unprecedented in primary politics, paints a very frightening picture for what his campaign will be in the fall if he is the nominee.


No candidacy is more important than the right to vote.
by hornplayer on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 03:23:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bitter White Male Union Member Laughs ? See yo (none / 0)

Keating Five.

Anyone calling themselves a liberal Republican that isn't disgusted with his tied to Bush/Cheney isn't a liberal Republican. Anyone that forgets the man was part of one of the most notorious investigations of the Senate Ethics Committee in recent history isn't "liberal" in any sense of the word.


by upstate girl on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 03:25:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bitter White Male Union Member Laughs ? See yo (none / 0)

Liberal republicans liked McCain about 8 years ago.  Now they just have contempt for him and are speaking about how true obama's words are when he talks about this bitterness.

Yes they might like McCain more than any other Republican segment.  However the fact that they are choosing Obama over McCain speaks volumes about why McCain wont win in November.


www.functionalforums.com
by TerraFF on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 03:29:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ohioans are HOT ! Very Hot about this! (2.00 / 1)

Democratic Senator Sherrod Brown's wife, Connie Schultz was a guest on a local liberal leaning radio talk show & a left leaning local TV affilite here in Ohio yesterday & this morning.

It was HOT HOT HOT !

She got bombarded by calls of outrage from white blue collar listeners & viewers.

It was pretty tense & actually very sad. You could hear the anger of many callers.

Callers, white men & white women filled the lines.

Some were calling  for Obama to drop-out while most were vowing to defeat him in November.

Many democratic callers who were union members were giving out email addresses of Union affiliates supporting Obama in upcoming primary's in PA,NC,KY,WV, etc.

They are demanding the Unions pull out their financial & logistics  support for Obama in these states. They are also demanding that Union leaders withdraw support from Obama in November.

This is crazy. As the host & guest both observed. The outrage this time among white voters seem much more vocal & angry than even then Rev.Wright scandal.

The common theme was if a White politician said this about blacks, there would be outraged from blacks & white progressive politicians.

But since its Obama who is black, white politicians are being politically correct at the expense of white voters.

Brown's wife tried to emphatize with the callers.

But she made it very clear to everyone. This is a serious gaffe that will very likely cause Obama millions of white democratic blue collar voters & the entire election in November.

She also predicted that many rank & file union members may end up defying any union bosses who are supporting Obama in November

Obama was bleak in Ohio & Missouri before this.
Now, he is unoffcially finished in Ohio & Missouri.

He can pretty much kiss states with heavy blue collar white democrats such as PA,NJ,MI,FL,...

This will be a blowout in the fall.


by labanman on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 03:03:00 PM EST

Re: Ohioans are HOT ! Very Hot about this! (none / 0)

People. This is April. There are going to be lots of things happening between now and November.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 03:28:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Americans have thicker skins than you'd think (none / 0)

Obama told some uncomfortable truths.  He's still telling them.  He terrifies the institution of government that thought that they would never be challenged, that only their approved candidates would ever get near the presidency.

People are starting to see through it.  We're starting to see through the pandering.  We're starting to see through the fearmongering.  We're starting to see that we need someone in the White House who won't always tell us what we want to hear, and also won't tell us that there's nothing we can do to fix things.  

We want someone who will bring our soldiers home, who will fix our trade agreements so that they're fairer to our workers, who will help us get health care and new jobs, who won't keep us in the pocket of the Saudis and who will talk to our enemies, to improve our status in the world so maybe they won't have to be enemies anymore.

But you, you would toss all that prosperity aside because Obama answered a question in a slightly inelegant way that nevertheless, when fully quoted, showed that he respected and saw that the people in question had hope?

Disingenuous to say the least.  Go back to your conservative website.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 03:10:16 PM EST

Re: Americans have thicker skins than you'd think (1.00 / 2)

dracomi,

Hey if you want to peddle your "Hope, Truth, & lecturing americans about what we should feel or not feel - TAKE IT ELSEWHERE!

I want to  Win in November!

I don't need lectures from you about life!

Americans don't need lectures from bloggers about what's offensive & what's not offensive. We have a mind of our own.

I've been a business owner for 20 years. I have businesses in 4 states. I employ close to 1,000 people. I create very good paying jobs for people.
I've been financially independent for the last 10 years. I can retire tomorrow & be comfortable.

Who the hell are you to be lecturing me or anyone about truths & all this garbage.

I've given more financial donations to the democratic party than you make in one year's pay.

Next time, save it.

Go back & vote for Nader.

I care about winning. All you care about is making some stupid statement about life regardless of outcome.

Get a real job & make it. Then we'll talk.


by labanman on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 03:20:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Americans have thicker skins than you'd think (none / 0)

The attitude that we must win over we must be truthful about the state of politics and how we got here, and how to fix it, is exactly why we've lost the last two elections.

Obama tells the truth.


by upstate girl on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 03:28:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Americans have thicker skins than you'd think (none / 0)

For someone so successful you're an awfully bitter and angry person.


by BlueinColorado on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 03:32:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Lowest Support since 1988 (none / 0)

Bluecolorado,

Me Bitter?

No, Its called amazement & frustration with a very small group of people who are more interested in making some kind of political statement & racial historic achievement- at the expense of Hurting, Hardworking Americans.

Many Obama supporters here are very young. Many are more concerned about some " Historic 1st Black President" more than anything else.

Anything Wrong Obama does is Simply Ignored & Brushed off.

I'm a Jewish-American business owner. I worked my ass off to make it. My employees worked very hard to make ends meet.

This is real life. With many of the Obama fans, its all Idealism. They are selling us on hope while Hillary Clinton is offering actual solutions.

Many Obama fans on MYDD don't even have families yet.

For many senior citizens & middle aged people like myself, November will boil down to who is more qualified.

The longer this goes own, the more people including many democrats are realizing that Obama is simply not ready!

He is all appeal, all talk.

I don't need a good looking, young stud to be President. I want an experience person who can deliver.
 I predict that Barack Obama will get the lowest support among Jews, Latinos, Asians & Whites since Dukakis in 20 years. ( since 1988.) It would really truly be a clear electoral blowout.

I also predict that we will lose the Senate because of Obama's weak showing.

Note: The issues Obama has with many white voters & latinos is almost beyond repair. No amount of money will be able to fix that.

His fans here are secluded among themselves. Its left of center talking to left of center.

The entire netroots community combined with Blacks can all give their 100% in November & Obama would still lose massively.

And yes Bluecolorado, I predict 100% that Obama will lose Colorado & Virginia. In fact, he will lose VA by double digits.

I will personally comeback to you in November & remind you of my statement.

The Idealist young people & our left wing of the party NEVER learn. Its been awhile since Dukakis & Mondale, they need a Very good whipping again.

The real losers ? The american people.


by labanman on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 04:22:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Lowest Support since 1988 (none / 0)

I am 36, so young by your standards, single dad with two sons in PA...What does the age of voter have to do with how much they know about this election?? You consistently repeat your mantra that "We are older, so we know what's best for this country?"  Applying your logic we should blame your "type" for the last 8 years of hell that GWB gave us.  Maybe, just maybe, over 50% of the voters who have voted have a clearer and better understanding of what this country is capable of than your "type".  You wanna talk about working hard, there are many Americans who work their asses off just like you and you know what THEY get...laid off, their homes GONE, no savings account, no retirement plans....They deal with reality everyday and they are pissed off.  So get off of the soapbox and stop your pandering!!


I can see Lake Erie from where I live, so can I please run the Navy?
by hootie4170 on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 04:31:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Lowest Support since 1988 (none / 0)

Hottie,

What does age have to do with it ?

Heeellllooo ?

Is it a coincidence Mr. Hottie that Clinton is winning Senior Citizens by almost 4 to 1 in every primary state we've had ?

Is it a coincidence that Obama is winning by 4 to 1 voters 25 yrs old & younger.

See Hottie, if you are going to debate with a business owner- Go with facts, not emotions. You cannot impose your views backed by pure emotions.

You are part of this " Obamamania" who PRETENDS that AGE, RACE & RELIGION has NOTHING to do with Obama's chances.

PLEAZZZE ! In the cinderella world, yes!

In the real world, majority, I repeat MAJORITY of people still voting ALONG these lines.

Whether you Hottie believe it or not, accept it or not - IT DOES NOT CHANGE REALITY!

Your Idol is in Deep Trouble for November.

You PRETENDING does not change a thing.

Unbelievable !  Your 36 yrs. old but you sound like an 18 yr old!


by labanman on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 04:48:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Lowest Support since 1988 (none / 0)

31 years old chiming in here, and never have I seen an argument made along the lines of inevitability made so depressing as your post.

People can't change, people don't want change, people care more about petty differences designed to divide us while our elected leaders drive the country into the ditch.

If you're right, the country will deserve what it gets. But the fact that Obama is leading the Democratic primary in popular votes and pledged delegates means your entire premise is halfway to being proven false.


by upstate girl on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 04:53:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Lowest Support since 1988 (none / 0)

Mister Big Strong Business Owner:

You didn't answer my WHOLE question....What does age have to do with UNDERSTANDING THE CANDIDATES AND THIS ELECTION?  Because you are older you are more privy to choosing the "right candidate"?


I can see Lake Erie from where I live, so can I please run the Navy?
by hootie4170 on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 05:14:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Lowest Support since 1988 (none / 0)

No, Its called amazement & frustration with a very small group of people who are more interested in making some kind of political statement & racial historic achievement- at the expense of Hurting, Hardworking Americans.

You and I see this in mirror-opposite terms. I think the only rationale for Clinton's campaign is to break the gender barrier, and I think McCain will beat her handily in a GE.


by BlueinColorado on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 04:37:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Lowest Support since 1988 (none / 0)

The Idealist young people & our left wing of the party NEVER learn. Its been awhile since Dukakis & Mondale, they need a Very good whipping again.

Okay, that's just feckin' weird.

(PS: For the record, I'm forty years old, jaded, cynical and quite moderate by blogosphere standards.)


by BlueinColorado on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 04:39:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Lowest Support since 1988 (none / 0)

Your post gets weirder the more I read it.

I also predict that we will lose the Senate because of Obama's weak showing.

This is just nuts. Which states do you think Dems will lose?


by BlueinColorado on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 04:42:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Lowest Support since 1988 (none / 0)

Thank-you, Thank-you, labanman.

There are people here who have been trying to say the same thing. It's about winning the GENERAL ELECTION. They are not electing their own personal President. They refuse to see that it's over for Obama and has been for along time. Too many serious questions about him and now this.

Thank-you for speaking in a loud voice and getting straight to the point. It's time for us all to raise our voices.


by EdgeCurrent on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 05:08:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Lowest Support since 1988 (none / 0)

How is it over when he's winning the Democratic Primary in both popular votes and pledged delegates?


by upstate girl on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 05:09:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Lowest Support since 1988 (2.00 / 1)

It's about winning the GENERAL ELECTION. They are not electing their own personal President. They refuse to see that it's over for Obama and has been for along time.

Seriously, what planet do you people live on? here's some recent polling:

IPres '08 (D)
Apr 12 GallupObama (D) 49%, Clinton 42%
Pres '08
Apr 12 GallupObama (D) 46%, McCain (R) 43%
Pres '08
Apr 12 GallupClinton (D) 46%, McCain (R) 45%
Pres '08 (D)
Apr 12 Rasmussen

How does any of that look like "it's over for Obama and has been for a long time"? Yes, yes, this new scandal is earth-shattering and Obama will never recover. This is, what? the third, fourth time we've heard that?

Clinton and Obama are tied against McCain in MI, OH and New York. In New York, Hillary Clinton is so popular she's tied with McCain.

Obama beats McCain, and McCain beats Clinton, in Iowa, Colorado, New Mexico and Wisconsin. Clinton needs Florida to have a ghost a hope of a chance of prayer to beat McCain, and she's tied against him there. Obama can win without Florida. The current SUSA map gives her Florida and she's still down by fifteen EVs.


by BlueinColorado on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 05:55:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

We are winning (none / 0)

Have some faith.

Every primary that goes by with Clinton and Obama going community to community we're reaching people that McCain will always be an obscure figure to.  Our candidates are going and meeting with everyday folks while McCain makes press conferences.

I never voted for Nader, I have a decent job.  I'm glad you feel life is blessed enough that you can assume that you are better off than me, but your choices of rhetoric make you sound like a Republican.  

The only way that Obama's statements will hurt is if you allow them to hurt.  If you let your mind calcify around a narrow-minded opinion of what he meant, that a rational person would know for not only truth but bravery.

I'm asking you, if you actually care about the Democratic party, to not let Fox News tell people what to think, to get the facts rather than the spin out.

If you don't care about the Democratic party, then please, stop pretending to be a Democrat, and go post at a conservative website, where your weak criticisms of Obama will be met with open arms.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 04:45:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The diarist absolutely nailed it, right here (2.00 / 1)

I could not help notice an "LOL"  comment by BCDEM on the other diary. BCDEM, You are an African-American person. Would you find this funny if Hillary Clinton dismissed the " Complaints of poor black people as mere bitterness because of their economic conditions & past slavery" ???

None of the Obama fans are responding, because CAN'T.  to even think about it is to acknowledge it, and the whole damned house of cards will come tumbling down.

Our choices are obvious - the first black nominee for President in our history, or the first female President in our history.  

You choose.


by dhonig on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 03:10:41 PM EST

Re: The diarist absolutely nailed it, right here (none / 0)

That's some amazing parsing, considering Obama never once mentioned the race of any of the people he was talking about. Yet you have Clinton saying "black people" and asking for defenses of a statement that isn't even ideologically close to what Obama was saying. That's a poor gotcha.


by upstate girl on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 03:12:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The diarist absolutely nailed it, right here (none / 0)

Can you possible be that obtuse?


by dhonig on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 05:22:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The diarist absolutely nailed it, right here (none / 0)

Could you possibly back up your statements with anything resembling some sort of proof?


by upstate girl on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 06:33:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The diarist absolutely nailed it, right here (none / 0)

could you possibly find a dictionary and look up the word "if"?  Given that you are able to type and find the internet, I refuse to believe you are this stupid.  Therefore, I must assume you are dishonest.


by dhonig on