He Really Doesn't Get It - Does He?

I'm sure you've heard about this one by now but I've just gotta chime in here guys.  From ABC News...

Mayhill Fowler is reporting on the Huffington Post that at a fundraiser in San Francisco this week, Obama put the blue collar voters of small town Pennsylvania on the analyst's couch:

"You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them," Obama said. "And they fell through the Clinton Administration, and the Bush Administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."

And here's what Hillary had to say in response while she was at a "Solutions for the Urban Economy" town hall in Philadelphia, PA earlier today (press statement)...

Hillary Clinton Reacts to Sen. Obama's Newly Discovered Characterizations of Pennsylvanians

"I saw in the media it's being reported that my opponent said that the people of Pennsylvania who faced hard times are bitter. Well, that's not my experience.

"As I travel around Pennsylvania , I meet people who are resilient, who are optimistic, who are positive, who are rolling up their sleeves. They are working hard everyday for a better future, for themselves and their children.

"Pennsylvanians don't need a president who looks down on them, they need a president who stands up for them, who fights for them, who works hard for your futures, your jobs, your families."

And thanks to YouTube, we have a video of her statement...

Ok so back to that ABC article...

Let's skip ahead to the general election   this is the kind of line that the right Republican opponent could turn into gold. If Obama wins the nomination, will the McCain campaign channel Rumplestiltskin and make this a successful talking point through the fall?

Grover Norquist, the anti-tax activist who leads an influential weekly meeting of conservatives, went as far as to argue that Obama's line would cost Democrats the White House.

"That sentence will lose him the election," Norquist told ABC News. "He just announced to rural America: 'I don't like you.'"

"Now you can vote against that guy not because you don't like him," Norquist added. "You can vote against him because he doesn't like you."

Add this to the long list of things they're going to go after him with in the general if he's our nominee.

Now this isn't the first time he's put his foot in his mouth when it comes to rural or small town America guys.  Maybe it comes from his lack of understanding as to just where folks from small towns are coming from.  Remember when he said he was surprised at how bright and articulate Iowans were?  

But they also, surprisingly enough, even in rural Iowa, recognize the opportunity to send a signal to the world that, you know, we are not as ingrown, as parochial as you may perceive...

Ingrown?  What the hell does that mean?  Here's his performance on Nightline...

The reaction wasn't pretty.  From Jeff Dinelli at the Left Coaster...

Well, Golly, Mr. Obama, on behalf of all us Midwesterners out here, you know, those of us who have to drive 'bout an hour er so to get to the Bears game or one of dem mooseums? We sure is lucky to have you out in the sticks with us so's we can grab hold of this opportunity to prove to the world we're not all inbred, cousin-kissin', voodoo doll stickin' hicks who wear our best white sneakers to church on Sunday before headin' to the all-you-can-eat buffet. Why heck, after diggin' yer pickup truck out of six feet of snow we may just invite you in for a plate of goulash and Jello salad, how'd ya like that, Mr. Obama?

He then quoted something BO said in New Hampshire...

"One of the great pleasures of running for president is to go to some tiny town in Iowa and you've got some guy in overalls and a seahat to say what do you think about the situation in Burma, and you're thinking that he's going to ask you about corn, and he asks you about Burma."

I don't know about you, but I get the sense he doesn't have very high expectations of the folks living in small towns in the Midwest or the Rust Belt.  He's acting like those were compliments for cryin' out loud.

Dinelli has a word or two in closing for Obama and I have a feeling a lot of folks in PA are thinking pretty much the same thing right about now...

But you know what? Not all of us Midwesterners are so "nice" and "polite," especially when we're being called inbred overall-wearing dumbfucks.

Screw you and the horse you rode in on, Barack.

So anyway back to that comment of Obama's about the folks in small town PA.  It looks like a lot's happened since I left work this evening.  I had a meeting to go to and when I got home I found that Obama's put out an explanation of sorts, and Hillary's campaign ut out the following press statement in response...

Clinton Campaign Reacts to Sen. Obama's Explanation of His Characterizations of Pennsylvanians

In response to Senator Obama's comments this evening in Indiana about the remarks he made in San Francisco earlier this week, Clinton spokesman Phil Singer said:

"Instead of apologizing for offending small town America , Senator Obama chose to repeat and embrace the comments he made earlier this week.  It's unfortunate that Senator Obama didn't say he was sorry for what he said.  Americans are tired of a President who looks down on them -- they want a President who will stand up for them for a change.  The Americans who live in small towns are optimistic, hardworking and resilient.  They deserve a president who will respect them."

WHAT SEN. OBAMA SAID THIS EVENING IN RESPONSE TO HIS SAN FRANCISCO FUNDRAISER COMMENTS:

I was in San Francisco talking to a group at a fundraiser, and somebody asked how, well, how are you going to get votes in Pennsylvania ? What's going on there? We hear that it's hard for working class people to get behind your campaign. Why is that? I said, well, look, they're frustrated. And for good reason.  Because for the last 25 years, they've seen jobs shipped overseas, they've seen their economies collapse. They've lost their jobs, they've lost their pensions, they've lost their healthcare, and for 25, 30 years, Democrats and Republicans have said we're going to make your community better. We're going to make it right. And nothing ever happens. And of course they're bitter and of course they're frustrated. You would be too and in fact, many of you are. Because the same thing happened here in Indiana , the same thing happened across the border in Decatur , the same thing is happening all across the country. Nobody is looking out for you , nobody is thinking about you.

And so people end up - they don't vote on economic issues because they don't expect anybody is going to help them. And so they end up voting on issues like guns and are they going to have the right to bear arms. They vote on issues like gay marriage and they take refuge in their faith and their community and their families and the things they can count on. But they don't believe they can count on Washington . So I made this statement - here's what's rich. Senator Clinton says, well, I don't think people are bitter in Pennsylvania . I think Barack's being condescending. John McCain says, oh, how can he say that, how can he say that people are bitter. He obviously is out of touch with people

Out of touch? Out of touch? John McCain, it took him 3 tries to finally figure out that the home foreclosure crisis was a problem and to come up with a plan for it, and he's saying I'm out of touch? Senator - Senator Clinton voted for credit card sponsored bankruptcy bill that made it harder for people to get out of debt after taking money from the financial services companies, and she says I'm out of touch? No, I'm in touch. I know exactly what's going on. I know what's going on in Pennsylvania , I know what's going on in Indiana , I know what's going on in Illinois . People are fed up. They are angry and they are frustrated and they are bitter they want to see a change in Washington . And that's why I am running for President of the United States of America .

Erm... yeah.

Maybe one reason I can relate to Hillary is that she's spent time in towns like my hometown in Michigan (another Rust Belt state).  She's right at home in PA - her dad was born and grew up there and she spent a lot of time in the state as a girl.  Here's what she had to say in an interview on KDKA today...

"I'm lucky because I have a pre-existing relationship with Pennsylvania going back to my father being born and raised in Scranton, and literally I spent so much time in Pennsylvania as a child and young women growing up that I feel very much at home," she says. "It's not a state that I have to look at a map and figure out where Pittsburgh is, or where Beaver County is, or where the suburbs of Philadelphia are."

"It's about who needs a President. There are places in our country that are doing really well," she said. "But there are other places where you really need to get to work to get those jobs growing again, to get universal health care for people, to have a new energy economy so that gas prices don't bankrupt families like there really putting a strain on today, to make college affordable again."

This woman gets it you guys.  She's not about pointing fingers or characterizing us as bitter or clinging to our guns or bibles.  Sure we have worries like everyone else and Hillary knows what keeps us up a night, but she's got a plan to address those everyday problems.  

She's all about the issues and getting the job done guys.  That's what I'm looking for in a leader.



Display:


Re: He Really Doesn't Get It - Does He? (2.00 / 19)

Hillary gets it.  She really does.


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 11:55:29 PM EST

Re: He Really Doesn't Get It - Does He? (2.00 / 1)

Youtube embed doesn't seem to work in the diary.  May you check it?

Great diary.  


I have yet to see what [Obama] has done to take the highest office in the land. He is no Martin Luther King. --Helen Thomas
by ghost 2 on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 12:00:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He Really Doesn't Get It - Does He? (none / 0)

Never mind.  I wrote too fast!!


I have yet to see what [Obama] has done to take the highest office in the land. He is no Martin Luther King. --Helen Thomas
by ghost 2 on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 12:02:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He Really Doesn't Get It - Does He? (2.00 / 4)

Patience Grasshoppa - patience!

Hey if you want to help Hillary win over those voters BO just pissed off you know what to do...

D O N A T E  NOW!

Thanks! :o)


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 12:15:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Balance... (2.00 / 1)

Being President is all about balance.. Hillary is clearly the strongest on economic issues, and she is not beholden to any one group or too corporate like Obama and McCain are. She is going to help small business, which is the engine of a lot of job growth in this country. Her health plan alone is going to have a sudden and dramatic strongly positve effect on small business.

Can everyone see WHY?


http://www.thisamericanlife.org/Radio_Ep isode.aspx?sched=1242
Confused by the 'Bailout' Lies?
Listen to NPR's The Giant Pool of Money
by architek on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 07:20:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

People ARE bitter. (2.00 / 6)

I'm not sure why McCain, Hillary and non-stop attack dog Alegre are blind to this fact, but public bitterness is very real.  I should know, I'm one of them.

Hillary and McCain are growing increasingly desperate, and they should be, because they are both going to lose.

No more Clintons, no more Bushes.   The status quo must go.


by dystopianfuturetoday on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 12:20:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: People ARE bitter. (2.00 / 5)

i agree with you. people are very bitter, very bitter indeed. and not just in pennsylvania. 80% or more of this country KNOWS we are headed in the wrong direction. that course was set by the clintons and the bushes.

obama is the only person amongst the three who is guaranteed to take of off this suicidial track.

as far as his comments in san fransisco, i wish he would make them a permanent part of his stump speech. what he said is true, and for too damn long we have let politicians lie their asses off to us and all the while we knew. i will give the people of pennsylvania enough credit to know the difference between truth and bullshit. if they can't figure it out, then what can mccain or clinton or obama or anyone do for them?


by hueydixiepearl on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 12:37:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He Really Doesn't Get It - Does He? (2.00 / 9)

She gets it? People are frustrated and bitter. That's the truth. Obama nailed it in his Indiana remarks.

"When I go around and I talk to people there is frustration and there is anger and there is bitterness.  And what's worse is when people are expressing their anger then politicians try to say what are you angry about?  This just happened - I want to make a point here today.

"I was in San Francisco talking to a group at a fundraiser and somebody asked how're you going to get votes in Pennsylvania? What's going on there?  We hear that's its hard for some working class people to get behind you're campaign. I said, "Well look, they're frustrated and for good reason.  Because for the last 25 years they've seen jobs shipped overseas.  They've seen their economies collapse.  They have lost their jobs.  They have lost their pensions.  They have lost their healthcare.  

"And for 25, 30 years Democrats and Republicans have come before them and said we're going to make your community better.  We're going to make it right and nothing ever happens.  And of course they're bitter.  Of course they're frustrated.  You would be too. In fact many of you are.  Because the same thing has happened here in Indiana. The same thing happened across the border in Decatur.  The same thing has happened all across the country.  Nobody is looking out for you.  Nobody is thinking about you.  And so people end up- they don't vote on economic issues because they don't expect anybody's going to help them. So people end up, you know, voting on issues like guns, and are they going to have the right to bear arms. They vote on issues like gay marriage. And they take refuge in their faith and their community and their families and things they can count on. But they don't believe they can count on Washington. So I made this statement-- so, here's what rich.  Senator Clinton says `No, I don't think that people are bitter in Pennsylvania.  You know, I think Barack's being condescending.'  John McCain says, `Oh, how could he say that?  How could he say people are bitter? You know, he's obviously out of touch with people.'

"Out of touch?  Out of touch?  I mean, John McCain--it took him three tries to finally figure out that the home foreclosure crisis was a problem and to come up with a plan for it, and he's saying I'm out of touch?  Senator Clinton voted for a credit card-sponsored bankruptcy bill that made it harder for people to get out of debt after taking money from the financial services companies, and she says I'm out of touch?  No, I'm in touch.  I know exactly what's going on. I know what's going on in Pennsylvania. I know what's going on in Indiana. I know what's going on in Illinois.  People are fed-up. They're angry and they're frustrated and they're bitter. And they want to see a change in Washington and that's why I'm running for President of the United States of America."


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 12:01:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He Really Doesn't Get It - Does He? (2.00 / 5)

And if he had couched his remarks this way, it wouldn't have sounded so bad.  I get what he's saying. But I'm still not sure he understands that there are people with strongly held value systems, and that those belief systems operate independently of economic issues--that's the problem some voters are having with these comments.


by TinaH1963 on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 12:16:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He Really Doesn't Get It - Does He? (2.00 / 1)

His original remarks were not so great. But his response in Indiana - which I have above - were terrific.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 12:18:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He Really Doesn't Get It - Does He? (2.00 / 0)

I do think people sometimes are without hope.  And I do think the other side uses wedge issues to get people to vote against their economic issues.  But, that's not the only reason people embrace religion or any other "values" issue, and that's what is lost here.  For some people, these values really are independent of economics--and I know that's hard to believe, but I think it's true.  Obama clearly believes it, but I think he's wrong on this small point--his larger point is on target, I think.


by TinaH1963 on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 12:52:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama doesn't get 'we are all in it together (1.00 / 1)

Obama is all about "tough love"  He feels that working class people deserve less now than they used to - which is the economists view and its based on supply and demand. Thats what his health care plan is all about, giving people less..not making it COST less, making them pay more, but giving less to more people... but they will still have to pay the sometimes huge differences between what these cheap plans will pay and what the services actually cost. To working people, that can ruin their lives. They can't just snap their fingers and come up with $287,000 to pay for the cost of a difficult pregnancy that went over a monthly cap.


http://www.thisamericanlife.org/Radio_Ep isode.aspx?sched=1242
Confused by the 'Bailout' Lies?
Listen to NPR's The Giant Pool of Money
by architek on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 07:28:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama doesn't get 'we are all in it together (2.00 / 3)

i want to quote you here:

"...he feels that working class people deserve less now than they used to".

where in god's name do you come up with such garbage?

please give me a link a quote a speech, something where sen obama says he thinks working class people deserve less?

you think you know how senator obama feels?! if you do, you must certainly know how senator clinton feels. so why don't you tell us how she feels about her vote for the iraq war.
 


by hueydixiepearl on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 12:51:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama doesn't get 'we are all in it together (2.00 / 1)

"He feels that working class people deserve less now than they used to..."

If you have some empirical evidence to support this, then you damn well better present it. If not, then you are an idiot, moron, or whatever other term will earn me negative ratings from this den of delusion.  I'm sick of this kind of hyperbole. Either support your case or STFU.


by bookish on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 05:49:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: the role of the subconscious (2.00 / 1)

Yes it's true, Sen Obama can sling it with the best of them when he's had a chance to THINK about what he's going to say. What this episode reveals is that when we catch him "unfiltered", he is quite adept at  generalizing classes of people (shall we say "typical white people"). It reveals a tendency to dismiss them as individual human beings and to dehumanize them. It reveals that in his mind voters, and classes of voters are simply a means to an end - getting him elected at all costs.


by pan230oh on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 11:24:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He Really Doesn't Get It - Does He? (2.00 / 1)

sure, and the Wright issue was terrible and then he made a great speech about race.

Is there a pattern here? Does Obama get ahead by pulling his foot out of his mouth? How many of these can he get away with?

This fall, you can bet the Republicans won't be bombarding us with clips from the Indiana speech. They will harp on the insensitive original, and that's what people will remember.


No way. No how. No McCain. . . . . . If you can ship a job to Bangalore India, you can ship a job to Flint Michigan.
by NJ Liberal on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 10:43:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He Really Doesn't Get It - Does He? (none / 0)

We have a chance, at last, to change the dynamics in the Dem Party which has been infested by the DLC (Republican light). If we fail, this country will continue on its present path.
There are so many problems that I cannot list them all. You know them as well as I.

It is time to stand the heck up.
This "elitist" smear against Barack Obama was used against Kerry and Edwards to devastating effect. Now the forces of the right (which includes Hillary Clinton if you haven't noticed) is trotting it out again.

This is where the rubber meets the road.


by barnowl on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 05:31:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Yes - if he had couc hed the (2.00 / 1)

remarks as he and his handlers came up with in the follow-up statement. He was speaking off the cuff - and that was what he was thinking - playing the class card.  This group of people (in San Francisco) gets me type thing.  the irony is that many working class (urban or rural)people get him as well.

surely, after considering his earlier remarks, he came up with this statement - which is as you said what he might have said.  He has to understand he's not teaching in a classroom - he wants votes - all kinds of votes.

But he didn't.


by Xanthe on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 06:09:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yes - if he had couc hed the (none / 0)

You want a perfect candidate. There is no such creature.  He should have couched his statement in more careful terms and he has said so. Nevertheless, what he said was God's truth.  
Regular folks have been manipulated into voting on wedge issues including guns, God and gays while the looting has continued unabated and our founding principles have been ignored or undercut.

by barnowl on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 05:46:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Is it the truth that people "cling" (none / 0)

to religion, for instance, because they
are frightened or "bitter."  Your truth, perhaps - but many people feel differently.  

I don't even know what a perfect candidate is.  


by Xanthe on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 07:42:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He Really Doesn't Get It - Does He? (1.80 / 5)

Just wondering - where do you live and what kind of work do you do?

Either way, you sound pretty bitter yourself.

I'm on a really tight budget and we don't have much, but I'm not nearly so bitter as you make folks out to be.  Hillary's right in what she said - people aren't as bitter as BO makes us out to be.  If he spent more time talking with us and living the lives we live, he might actually understand that.


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 12:31:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He Really Doesn't Get It - Does He? (1.62 / 8)

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Alegra called someone bitter.


by interestedbystander on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 03:38:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He Really Doesn't Get It - Does He? (2.00 / 3)

If you aren't angry and bitter at how our elected officials have failed the American lower and middle class over the last 3 decades, then you're doing better financially than a lot of people in PA.

I'm happy a Democratic candidate has come along with the spine to not be pressured into apologizing for telling the truth. I'm far more insulted at how the opposition has tried to spin this into we're somehow thrilled to be cleaning up after a war that's left a stain on our legacy and our budget so large its terrifying.

Americans are willing to work hard but they're tired of the government ripping us off blind, and both of the other potential candidates have a long and thick history tied to the kinds of actions that have gotten us exactly where we are now.


by upstate girl on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 08:31:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

missing the point (2.00 / 0)

the offense is not in being called bitter or frustrated -- it's offensive to assume frustration over one's economic circumstances effects ones decision making on other issues or drives people to bigotry or xenophobia.  Statements like Obama's are superficial, one dimensional and insulting.

 


Sexism is real.
by grassrootsorganizer on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 09:08:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He Really Doesn't Get It - Does He? (2.00 / 6)

He gets it, exactly.  Exactly.  No platitudes, no more nobility in poverty, no painting smiley faces on pain, but speaking like a real progressive about how damaging this country can be to its workers.  

Reminded me again of why I feel so strongly about his candidacy.  


by mady on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 01:28:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He Really Doesn't Get It - Does He? (2.00 / 7)

Good luck making that elitist argument against a guy who gave up well paid jobs to work in the community, coming from a candidate worth $110m.  I don't think the voters are as stupid as you would like to think they are.


by interestedbystander on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 03:42:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

There is absolutely (2.00 / 1)

no question Obama is right about this.


by fladem on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 11:24:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He Really Doesn't Get It - Does He? (2.00 / 1)

If you spend half as much time hating McCain as you have hating Obama I will be surprised.


ENOUGH!
by JDF on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 11:51:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He Really Doesn't Get It - Does He? (2.00 / 2)

She gets what? How to purposely misunderstand a comment and make political hay from it?
by mikeinsf on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 11:54:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He Really Doesn't Get It - Does He? (none / 0)

Quoting Grover Norquist.
Congratulations, Alegre.
You, like your candidate, are now officualy a fucking Republican.
Stay on strike. we don't need you where reasonable people hang out.
Which ain't here.
Your candidate has LOST.
Get OVER it.

by kestrel9000 on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 02:42:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He Really Doesn't Get It - Does He? (none / 0)

Quoting Grover Norquist.
Congratulations, Alegre.
You, like your candidate, are now officially a fucking Republican.
Stay on strike. we don't need you where reasonable people hang out.
Which ain't here.
Your candidate has LOST.
Get OVER it.

by kestrel9000 on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 02:43:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yawn. Let us know by putting up a diary (none / 0)

when he does something seriously wrong like voting to invade Iraq.


by ReillyDiefenbach on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 05:43:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Alegre, you're the one who doesn't get it!!!!! (none / 0)

For heaven's sake.  He was saying (Nightline) that Iowans may be aware of how they are perceived by the rest of the country, but, that in fact they are anything but.  He was praising how engaged, interested and knowledgable of government and our political system they are.  Clinton people please stop engaging in mischaracterising what BO is saying. You help Republicans each and every time. Please!


by santamonicadem on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 06:01:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He Really Doesn't Get It - Does He? (none / 0)

You really are desperate for anything and everything possible to try and turn around this mathematical impossibility of Clinton winning the dem. nomination aren't you alegre. Good lord.

If you would turn off the spin part of your brain and actually read what he wrote, NOT what Clinton says he said (these are, after all, the people of the famed bosnia 'misspeakings'), I think you might find a comment that tends to ring true.

That is, if you care about thinking about issues beyond a 30 second soundbite.

Sigh.


by Yalin on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 09:41:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He Really Doesn't Get It - Does He? (none / 0)

No he doesn't. And, the idiot elite snobs of the party haven't been getting it either. But, they better wake up or we are going to have another 4 years working on a conservative agenda and Democrats will be the ones to have said that's what we want.

We, core dems aren't threatened by being called racists...we're more secure in ourselves than that. It does piss us off though.

How can anyone think Democrats can win a 50 state strategy by counting only 48 states?


by seattlegonz on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 01:22:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He Really Doesn't Get It - Does He? (1.91 / 12)

People don't have to vote against Obama because they don't like him; he doesn't like them!


Fight for Democrats in Congress.
by owl06 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 11:57:39 PM EST

Re: He Really Doesn't Get It - Does He? (2.00 / 1)

Now you are going to quote right winger Grover Norquist?


by Toddwell on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 12:04:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He Really Doesn't Get It - Does He? (2.00 / 2)

It's got zest!


Fight for Democrats in Congress.
by owl06 on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 12:07:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He Really Doesn't Get It - Does He? (2.00 / 3)

Bury your head in the sand if you want, but you'd better get used to hearing that kind of shit because they're going to HAMMER us with it if BO gets the nod.


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 12:43:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He Really Doesn't Get It - Does He? (2.00 / 1)

This argument gets funnier and funnier, because I always see it from "Democrats". Even Clinton sent out Republican talking points in her follow up press release. How long can you go on threatening for Democrats to "get used to it because that's what the Republicans will do!" You've been doing it for them for months already.


by upstate girl on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 08:34:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He Really Doesn't Get It - Does He? (none / 0)

So we should respond to you the same way we would respond to Republicans?  Good to know...


Check out McCain.
by you like it on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 12:55:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He Really Doesn't Get It - Does He? (2.00 / 1)

Owl, it seems that 700,000 like Obama more then they like Clinton. How would you explain that????


by lion king on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 12:19:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He Really Doesn't Get It - Does He? (2.00 / 2)

If you count the Dems in the cross tabs, you might not feel so, um, Demmy.
by Pacific John on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 12:27:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He Really Doesn't Get It - Does He? (2.00 / 2)

Heh! ;o)


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 12:44:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

That was MONTHS ago.. (2.00 / 1)

LOTS of people who voted for him then DON'T like him now.

They are beginning to see the other Obama.


http://www.thisamericanlife.org/Radio_Ep isode.aspx?sched=1242
Confused by the 'Bailout' Lies?
Listen to NPR's The Giant Pool of Money
by architek on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 07:30:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He Really Doesn't Get It - Does He? (2.00 / 1)

What do the cross tabs matter. The only thing that matters is who they voted for. I guess the new memo is your not really a dem if you voted for Obama. But what of all those repugs, who on the advice of Rush, voted for Hillary?? Should we now discount those votes???


by lion king on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 01:07:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

That was a diversionary tactic.. (2.00 / 0)

I doubt if many Republicans really voted for Hillary. If so, more power to them.

But, from day 1, from when he first announced his amnesty 'not-demonizing' the  Sept 11 period criminals, Obama's campaign has been based on getting votes and especially, money from Republicans.

Why would he have brought on Jim Cooper
who is a money magnet
..


http://www.thisamericanlife.org/Radio_Ep isode.aspx?sched=1242
Confused by the 'Bailout' Lies?
Listen to NPR's The Giant Pool of Money
by architek on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 07:34:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He Really Doesn't Get It - Does He? (2.00 / 0)

perhaps we should discount those votes along the with "dems for a day" voters - people who Obama courted to be dems for only a day - I guess then they're free to go back to being repbublicans.


by AnnC on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 09:03:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He Really Doesn't Get It - Does He? (2.00 / 2)

Forget it. Bitter-gate is over. After Obama's response the news media are on his side. You should have heard the pundits on CNN this evening. Not one agreed with Hillary or McCain. This is going nowhere (except on MyDD and maybe Fox News).


by Becky G on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 12:48:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Of course.. (2.00 / 3)

They LOVE Obama.. they have invested a lot in him. They think "Americans have such short memories".. They have control of the media, the polls...


http://www.thisamericanlife.org/Radio_Ep isode.aspx?sched=1242
Confused by the 'Bailout' Lies?
Listen to NPR's The Giant Pool of Money
by architek on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 07:36:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He Really Doesn't Get It - Does He? (2.00 / 1)

What a crock. Are you really that ignorant or just pretending to be? This diary should be cross-posted on redstate.


by kitebro on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 09:42:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He Really Doesn't Get It - Does He? (2.00 / 8)

He's got this amen chorus available and I don't think he realizes that it takes more than that to win. He's an incredibly cynical guy and I'm sure he thought that sounded empathetic - mostly it just sounds cynical. It's beyond me why anyone is buying the "hope" schtick anymore.


by Little Otter on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 11:57:52 PM EST

Re: He Really Doesn't Get It - Does He? (2.00 / 1)

Yes, otter it does seem that alot is beyond you. The voters of America have so far chosen Barack over Clinton. Try and prove me wrong on that point. And Obama gave a masterful response, which shows how well he can defend himself. Show me how Hillary has respoonded to to the Bosnia ordeal, or her Columbia hypocrisy? Oh and please link to Hillary's brilliant speech speaking out against sexism. I'd really like to see that one. After all is sexism is such a huge issue in this election surely she would have something to say about it to the entire country.

What not speech???


by lion king on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 12:14:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He Really Doesn't Get It - Does He? (1.50 / 2)

But she got (maybe) 150 people in Manhattan complaining about her media coverage!


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 12:21:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He Really Doesn't Get It - Does He? (1.50 / 2)

But it was huge, huge I tell ya.


by interestedbystander on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 03:40:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Lion King's remarks.. (2.00 / 0)

Pseudo-grandiose.. just like Obama..

Lion King, your spin is showing!

Yes, otter it does seem that alot is beyond you. The voters of America have so far chosen Barack over Clinton. Try and prove me wrong on that point. And Obama gave a masterful response, which shows how well he can defend himself. Show me how Hillary has respoonded to to the Bosnia ordeal, or her Columbia hypocrisy? Oh and please link to Hillary's brilliant speech speaking out against sexism. I'd really like to see that one. After all is sexism is such a huge issue in this election surely she would have something to say about it to the entire country.

What not speech???

Sad...


http://www.thisamericanlife.org/Radio_Ep isode.aspx?sched=1242
Confused by the 'Bailout' Lies?
Listen to NPR's The Giant Pool of Money
by architek on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 07:40:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Lion King's remarks.. (none / 0)

Weird.


by bookish on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 09:54:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He Really Doesn't Get It - Does He? (2.00 / 2)

Well, Obama's speech on race doesn't seem to have lingered in the culture, has it? Now is not the time for such things.

It's funny how you have to make up things that I believe in order to attack me. That's pretty sad.

The fact of the matter is that he's a guy with virtually no accomplishments to his name. A Harvard graduate who is the son of a Harvard graduate and married to a Harvard graduate - he's as privileged as it gets. And yet with all that privilege, what has he done for others? Five years in the Illinois senate (55 days a year, thank you very much) and despite his claims of post-partisan genius, he accomplished NOTHING until the Dems took the state house. Nothing. Zippo. Zilch. How sad. Then Emil Jones gifted him with legislation and suddenly, he has a career.

he may know how to run a thug campaign, but he is one of the most divisive figures we've seen in the Democratic party - twice as many Clinton supporters won't vote for him as vice versa. And Clinton supporters are bedrock Democrats in blue states. LOL

All this hot air around him because, in point of fact, there is no there there. Just a guy who's never done anything that wasn't self-aggrandizing. Just a guy who's never done anything to make other people's lives bettter of his own volition.


by Little Otter on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 12:25:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He Really Doesn't Get It - Does He? (2.00 / 2)

Well, Obama's speech on race doesn't seem to have lingered in the culture, has it?

Heh. Nope, I guess the history books haven't gotten around to that less-than-a-month-old speech. But I'm sure they're already fast at work analyzing how spectacularly Hillary Clinton mismanaged her campaign. I'll buy you a copy of that book, and get President Obama to sign it for me. Sound good?

;)


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 12:32:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He Really Doesn't Get It - Does He? (2.00 / 2)

if it was going to have an impact, it would have had an impact. It hasn't and it didn't. Nothing changed. It isn't being quoted. It didn't redefine or illuminate anything. hasn't changed the dialogue around the race either. The most you can say is that it may have staunched the hemmoraghing over Wright. But we won't know whether that is the case until the election.

It's gone precisely nowhere. Two weeks from now, most Americans won't even remember it was given.


by Little Otter on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 12:37:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

It had an impact (2.00 / 1)

It corrected nearly all damage from the Wright flap, and has 5 million YouTube hits to date.

People remember.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.

That One/Another Fella '08

by Dracomicron on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 12:56:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He Really Doesn't Get It - Does He? (2.00 / 2)

Even in the TV and Youtube culture of today, it takes longer for things like this to promulgate. I'd say Clinton's failure in campaign strategy hasn't really sunk in yet, either. But I obviously won't say it never will. I'm sure political historians and future political candidates will be studying that for decades to come.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 01:05:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

People DO get Obama's grandiosity.. (2.00 / 1)

They have met people like him before.. and they realize how destructive and divisive they can be.. with their pat judgments and failed trickle down economics arguments.. and their Social Darwinism.

WE have ALL met people like Hillary before, and THEY hold up our whole communities. they know the REAL meaning and value of DEMOCRACY.

Obama obviously holds democracy in contempt. Why else would he try to disenfranchise Michigan and Florida?


http://www.thisamericanlife.org/Radio_Ep isode.aspx?sched=1242
Confused by the 'Bailout' Lies?
Listen to NPR's The Giant Pool of Money
by architek on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 07:45:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: People DO get Obama's grandiosity.. (2.00 / 1)

Indeed, right? That's why Clinton refused to have a Michigan revote include anyone who didn't vote the first time. What a way to enfranchise people. But I'm sure you'll ignore this, as you always do when I ask you hard questions.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 11:34:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I hadn't heard that.. (none / 0)

Do you have a source for the raw, unspinned info?

Actually, I think all states should have primaries and not caucuses, and the rules should be uniform, and I'd like to see the primaries only be open to people who have been in a party for long enough to prevent people from other parties suddenly registering in a party to change the outcome of tight contests like this one. Say, six to nine months...


http://www.thisamericanlife.org/Radio_Ep isode.aspx?sched=1242
Confused by the 'Bailout' Lies?
Listen to NPR's The Giant Pool of Money
by architek on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 06:07:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He Really Doesn't Get It - Does He? (none / 0)

Oh I don't know. I think the country will remember that grandma got thown under the bus. I say it now in reference to many things.

"Girl...you threw grandma under the BUS when you voted for that country girl on idol. You should have voted for the aussie guy. Your disgusting!"


by monstergrrl on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 01:20:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Huh? (none / 0)

okay, call me an idiot, but I don't watch much TV. (the more you watch, the less you know)

I don't get THAT.


http://www.thisamericanlife.org/Radio_Ep isode.aspx?sched=1242
Confused by the 'Bailout' Lies?
Listen to NPR's The Giant Pool of Money
by architek on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 07:47:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

He should have (none / 0)

gone into an enhanced description of his grandmother's history and philosophy. (snark)
It was an off hand question.
When somebody asks, "how are you," what do you say?

by barnowl on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 07:59:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Clinton the hundred million dollar women (2.00 / 1)

" his speech didn't seem to linger in the culture"
Are you not AWAKE. Have you not seen how many specials they've run about race in America???

Oh, and we're still waiting for Hillary's speech regading sexism. When do you think she will take a leadership stance on that issue????


by lion king on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 01:12:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton the hundred million dollar women (2.00 / 1)

I am guessing that Hillary believes the issue of sexism is something better addressed after the Democrats have secured the White House.  I'm guessing that she has her priorities straight and she realizes that it's not something that can be solved during a primary election, and she's aware that it would create unnecessary divisiveness during a time when it's critical that we focus on getting control of our government so that we having a prayer of ever making progress on the complex issues of equality for all types of people.  I'm guessing that she realizes it's much smarter politically to focus on things like the economy, the war, the environment and health and welfare of citizens until we've won this election, at which time, many more things will be possible.


by joanneleon on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 02:55:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton the hundred million dollar women (1.00 / 1)

Um, expect Hillary's speech regarding sexism when:

1)She is desperate to change the conversation from the revelation that she worships with a coven of America-hating witches

or

2)She relies exclusively on charges of sexism to defend against every attack against her, no matter how unrelated to sexism the attack is

So what, now you guys are holding up Barack's purely self-serving speech as something Hillary should emulate, or something that actually makes him more qualified than her to lead?  HIS SPEECH WAS MADE TO SAVE HIS OWN ASS, NOT TO 'FIX' RACE RELATIONS IN THIS COUNTRY!!!  If the speech was not made to save Barack's candidacy from the Wright scandal, what, was it just great timing for him?  Did he plan all along to 'address the racism' in America, and it just happened to fall a few days after the Wright controversy exploded?  Go choke down some more Kool-Aid, Simba, and keep on twisting whatever logic you need to blindly defend the mental image of the perfect politician you have crafted in your head.


by thebrightwhitelight on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 10:30:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton the hundred million dollar women (none / 0)

I don't mind what your saying, but I had to troll rate you for the "go choke down some more Kool-Aid, Simba" comment.  It was an unnecessary personal attack.


by shalca on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 02:01:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He Really Doesn't Get It - Does He? (2.00 / 6)

Obama's true beliefs are gradually surfacing.


Fight for Democrats in Congress.
by owl06 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 11:59:14 PM EST

no he doesn't (2.00 / 2)

for someone who is so "intelligent", he seems so preoccupied by himself he can't bother to listen to or talk with anyone.  Instead he yells "I know what's going on!!!"  Sounds like "yes we can!"  Yes I guess he does think he can insult people without immunity, and then try to explain away things he should be apologizing for.  


by 4justice on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 12:02:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: no he doesn't (2.00 / 2)

Heh. Oh, you Clinton supporters, you're so painfully predictable. Looking desperately for something to be "offended" by. If Clinton said something like this, you'd be fawning over it, and so it's sad to see you folks act this way. But keep it up- the undecided voters and lurkers here will take note, I'm sure, which oughtta benefit Obama.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 12:34:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: no he doesn't (2.00 / 1)

No I think that may be Bill Clinton. By Monday this will be old news because it's based on twisting the truth just like Bosnia.


by Politicalslave on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 04:20:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He Really Doesn't Get It - Does He? (2.00 / 1)

You mean he's mortal, and not "the one?" It's a really bad idea to start with an image that is self-corrupted by real life.
by Pacific John on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 12:28:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He Really Doesn't Get It - Does He? (2.00 / 2)

Is this approaching a record for the most diaries about a single topic in the course of one day?  Inspiration seems to be directly proportional to desperation.


by rfahey22 on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 12:01:33 AM EST

desperation (2.00 / 0)

should be applying to Obama supporters now.  Your guy keeps digging the hole, and he's not going to climb out.  You watch--from here until June he loses most, if not all, of the primaries, as people become more and more uncomfortable with him.

Desperation?  Nah. Exasperation and Obama's continued denial?  For sure.


by 4justice on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 12:05:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: desperation (2.00 / 1)

You might be right. I don't have a crystal ball. But I think that his response has been terrific and hope he makes a series of ads speaking to people's frustration and anger about the state of our nation.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 12:06:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: desperation (2.00 / 1)

Hes not going to lose Oregon, Montana, South Dakota, and North Carolina.  These are all states that Clinton personally said didnt count.  


by Toddwell on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 12:10:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: desperation (2.00 / 1)

Uh, ok.  You'll know Obama supporters are desperate around here when they start playing the "you better be nice to us or we'll sit out or vote for McCain" card that supporters of a certain other candidate have been using for months now.


by rfahey22 on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 12:10:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: desperation (2.00 / 1)

Interesting prediction. I'll hold you to it. If it turns out you're wrong, I'm sure you'll admit publicly you were wrong, though. Right?

;)


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 12:35:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He Really Doesn't Get It - Does He? (2.00 / 2)

Yeah, alegre's late on this one. She's been scooped ten times over. But what the hell, might as well start yet another thread trashing that horrible rich, liberal Obama. You can almost smell the fake ruminated outrage as its chewed from diary to diary to diary.


by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 12:07:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He Really Doesn't Get It - Does He? (1.33 / 3)

You forgot to compliment her on her cut and paste job, oh I mean "writing" skills.


by lion king on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 12:27:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He Really Doesn't Get It - Does He? (2.00 / 1)

Yeah...some of these diaries get awfully close to just re-packaging news material.


by rfahey22 on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 12:32:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He Really Doesn't Get It - Does He? (2.00 / 1)

That's an unnecessary comment, clearly meant to denigrate.  Why go there?


by TinaH1963 on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 01:35:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He Really Doesn't Get It - Does He? (1.50 / 2)

Are you really going to say that denigrating Alegra is off limits?  After all, Alegra is the denigrating queen here, isn't she.  By the way, good luck finding a diary from her that is less than 50% cut and paste.


by interestedbystander on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 03:47:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He Really Doesn't Get It - Does He? (none / 0)

No...I'm not saying that criticizing ideas is inappropriate.  The poster seemed to be criticizing her ability to write--that's what I'm objecting to.


by TinaH1963 on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 02:23:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He Really Doesn't Get It - Does He? (2.00 / 4)

Because Alegre has a reputation. And when people consistently put out work that is called into question (not because of its ideological content, but because it is lacking in either logic or reason) in one way or another, there is every reason to call them out.

I find that, after spending only a couple of months on MyDD, I can pretty much count on Alegre's diaries to engage in exaggeration and hyperbole. It isn't that I disagree with her arguments (my job concerns the nature and structure of arguments, so it doesn't matter to me whether I agree with them or not, only that they are well made), it's that her arguments almost always end up discounting her own claims. IN a word, they overreach (and sometimes disprove her own positions).
ONe (I said one) of the hallmarks of a good argument is that it takes into consideration, and clearly articulates, the arguments against it. BY doing this, you strengthen your argument (in short, you make a better case). I have never, ever, once, seen this aspect of basic, logical, reasoning exhibited in a diary by Alegre.

MInd you, I am NOT saying that Alegre is not smart or doesn't have points to make. On the contrary. I am saying that she does herself (her intelligence and her points of view, which clearly have merit --everyone has merit, everyone's thought has merit) a disservice by over simplifying and exaggerating. And by not taking into account the arguments against her own positions.

This diary is no exception.  

Most spin is neither logical, nor reasonable. And I,myself, know that politics is not rational (it's emotional). Despite the fact that I know this, I can't help wanting more from ... all of us. Myself. All of us. So, please, don't misunderstand and think I am trashing someone. I think we are all in this together.

I think Alegre is passionate. That's good. Passion is the beginning of good argumentation. But something, to me, seems to get lost in the translation.


by DrPolitics on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 04:11:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He Really Doesn't Get It - Does He? (2.00 / 2)

Erm... no actually I think you guys hold that record re bosnia.


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 12:47:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He Really Doesn't Get It - Does He? (2.00 / 1)

I admit I could be wrong, but the sheer rate of diaries on this issue seems to be higher than both Tuzla and Wright.  Certainly this "scandal" is in the top three of the primary season.  Not that the various diaries actually add much new to the issue.


by rfahey22 on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 12:54:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

The desperation is greater now (2.00 / 1)

With Obama closing in on Pennsylvania, the more rabid Clinton supporters are lashing out at any little thing that could possibly help them.

They know in their hearts that Clinton needs a huge win in PA, and it doesn't look like she's going to get it.

If they can find just the right wedge issue, then maybe their candidate gets to go on to the next state, even if it means risking poisoning the well against any Democrat this fall.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.

That One/Another Fella '08

by Dracomicron on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 01:00:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Bingo (none / 0)

Desperate and pathetic.

Obama's response, if you haven't seen it, is lovely.


by nwgates on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 01:27:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He Really Doesn't Get It - Does He? (2.00 / 1)

Shame the Bosnia issue could have died a quiet death, but leave it up to Bill to bring it right back into play. It was the top news story tonight.
Don't you guys get the sense that Bill doesn't really want Hillary to win. I don't think his ego could stand being the first "first man".
by lion king on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 01:17:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He Really Doesn't Get It - Does He? (2.00 / 5)

another good diary, alegre!


by Enviro on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 12:03:29 AM EST

Re: He Really Doesn't Get It - Does He? (2.00 / 1)

I don't think Hillary gets it that people are frustrated and bitter. The middle class has shrunk, we are in a recession, the war has been a disaster, manufacturing jobs are gone.  And she's peddling happy talk?


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 12:04:02 AM EST

Re: He Really Doesn't Get It - Does He? (2.00 / 3)

Bitter? What polling evidence do you have that people are bitter? Or is that a truth that comes directly out of Obama's ass?

People don't think this nation is on the right track, and Clinton agrees - just look at the bill's she's proposed in Congress and her platform. It's all about getting unions back and working again, creating high paying green jobs, eliminating tax breaks on employers who send jobs overseas, making college easier to pay for, negotiating our way through the housing crisis, and providing health care for EVERYONE (unlike Obama).


by Little Otter on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 12:07:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He Really Doesn't Get It - Does He? (none / 0)

So you're agreeing she doesn't get it.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 12:36:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He Really Doesn't Get It - Does He? (2.00 / 1)

I think we all agree the nation is one the wrong track. I know Clinton has directly acknowledged that time and time again. But bitter? Maybe Obama supporters are but not most of the US.


by Little Otter on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 12:39:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He Really Doesn't Get It - Does He? (none / 0)

Uh huh. Two questions-

1) I didn't realize Obama was referencing everyone in the country... could you link that?

2) What reference or authority do you have to make a claim that everyone isn't bitter, what Obama said nonwithstanding?


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at