MyDD :: Obama's elitist contempt for everyday people

Obama's elitist contempt for everyday people

by owl06, Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:19:10 PM EST

Barack Obama is once again showing his enmity for common people in small town America. Politco's Ben Smith has quoted Obama assigning a negative connotation to faith and gun ownership in small town Pennsylvania.

As an aside, Obama took it a step further and implied that typical Pennsylvanians had strong racist and xenophobic tendencies. But I digress: Here is what Obama said.

"And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

He made those remarks in an attempt to appeal to voters in towns such as Allentown, Bethlehem and Scranton that have higher than average unemployment due to global competition.

Well Senator, that is one heck of a broad brush stroke. I am from Pennsylvania, and know many wonderful people that reside in small towns. My first college was in North East PA (NEPA).

I warmly recall that when my mother had cancer, my classmate's mother, a person of faith, called her and prayed with her. She is still a friend of my mother's to this day. Prayer kept my mom's spirits up and helped her withstand chemotherapy.

Even though I am not a religious person, Obama's I find Obama's comments to be deeply offensive. My friend's mom and my own mother are not 'clinging' to religion - it is an essential part of their lives.

Unlike Obama, who has never held a full time job, my friend's parents work multiple jobs and struggle to put food on the table, pay their mortgage and healthcare costs. Prayer helps them cope with the reality of their situation. What's wrong with that Senator?

My bet is that Obama just turned off a massive portion of the electorate, and is becoming the real life embodiment the GOP's "elitist liberal democrat" caricature. Is that what his version of Chairman Dean's "50 State strategy" is?

Tags: Barack Obama, Pennsylvania, North Carolina, faith, working people (all tags)

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What a fool he is and here is the complete post (2.00 / 8)

that Smith quoted

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mayhill-fo wler/obama-no-surprise-that-ha_b_96188.h tml

I didn't believe in god before the primaries and I still don't.

by NewHampster on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:21:26 PM EST

Not only that (2.00 / 1)

I hear he slips lattes, drives Volvos, and does other things one would associate with liberal elitists.

That's snark, BTW.

John McCain: Healthcare for Kids? In America? No way

by bosdcla14 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:14:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

McCain and Clinton comments (2.00 / 2)

It's an unforced error by Obama. There was no need to say what he did. If he ends up the nominee, which still is an open question, he needs to stop that.

It's being reported that my opponent said that the people of Pennsylvania who face hard times are bitter," Clinton said during a campaign event in Philadelphia. "Well that's not my experience. As I travel around Pennsylvania. I meet people who are resilient, optimist positive who are rolling up their sleeves."

"Pennsylvanians don't need a president who looks down on them," she said. "They need a president who stands up for them, who fights hard for your future, your jobs, your families."

McCain's campaign also criticized the comment Friday, saying "It shows an elitism and condescension towards hardworking Americans that is nothing short of breathtaking."

"It is hard to imagine someone running for president who is more out of touch with average Americans," Steve Schmidt, a senior advisor to McCain, said.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/

by TomP on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:26:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCain and Clinton (2.00 / 2)

he can't be nominee now, it's non stop at CNN, McCain's on board, and it's true, it's what he really thinks. his supporters also think it's true. If there were more of them, maybe, but he needed to win those he holds in contempt. And he's just lost each and every one of them. It's sad, in that Hillary could beat him anyway, but he threw in the towel. I mean, he knew he'd be quoted, look at his friend Randi who thought she could get away with calling Hillary a whore at an Obama fundraising event and all the girls would be, oh yeah, she's not hurting me by calling the first credible female presidential candidate a whore, and she found out otherwise. This also corresponds with the sense many have of Obama's sense of his own superiority, so it has a ring of truth, unlike the pastor story, no one really thought that was a reflection on what Obama thinks. What happened is that he just gave up, today, he's thrown in the towel.

Hillary - alternative energy

by anna shane on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:46:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCain and Clinton (2.00 / 0)

The Clintonistas keep looking for the silver bullet, but this is not it. Face it, he's the nominee. I don't like it much either, but I am also not really big on Clinton. I am tired of seeing the partisian bickering over this stuff though. Obama made a gaffe in my opinion, but it will not hurt him. It's a friday evening black hole and the positive media he has will make this go away. Only Fox will care and they are catering to an audience that's never going to vote for Obama anyway.

by reggie44pride on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:56:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCain and Clinton (2.00 / 1)

Hillary, who is basically a Republican, cannot be our nominee either.

by Toddwell on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:07:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

So that's why Elizabeth Edwards (2.00 / 1)

told national television that she prefers Clinton's health plan.

That's why acclaimed progressive economist, Paul Krugman calls all of Obama's proposals "to the right" of Clinton's.

Is your vacuous smear from ignorance, or just right wing gas?

by internetstar on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 07:55:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCain and Clinton (2.00 / 0)

Doesn't spinning so hard sometimes make you feel silly?

Or Dizzy?

John McCain: Cheney with a temper

by wrb on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:24:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCain and Clinton (2.00 / 1)

CNN on the situation room actually called Clinton out on her misinterpretations of what obama really said, and they didn't like her reply one bit! So, yeah, it's non stop but that doesn't mean it's all bad for Obama, and listen if one reads the paragraph prior to the religion, guns, immigrant ANTI TRADE comments, Obama stated that people for 25 years, through the Clinton administration and the Bush administrations had seen their jobs disappear and even though they were told the jobs would become plentiful again, that hadn't happened.

That's why Clinton and McCain are all juiced up, Obama is reminding people of how bad those administrations really were, that's when their lives changed and their's not been anything to replace those old times.

by Wary on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 09:05:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCain and Clinton (2.00 / 1)

Right here. It ain't gonna be pretty for Clinton when CNN gets fed up...then all that's left is Fox.

http://www.youtube.com/v/4G8dRMofHNs& ;hl=en

by bookish on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 01:02:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: in PA (none / 0)

I really doubt that.
Obama is fast on his feet. His response clarifies the matter. And, after all, he spoke the truth.

by barnowl on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 06:38:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

he has a slick team (2.00 / 1)

to clean up behind him, and redirect media attention by digging up old Clinton hit stories.

by internetstar on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 07:59:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Scandals are like busses for the Clintons (none / 0)

Another one will be coming along in a minute.

by ReillyDiefenbach on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 05:51:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCain and Clinton (none / 0)

HE `CAN'T BE NOMINEE NOW !!!!

You're so funny. We'll how this palys out. I'm confident that Barack Obama can and will be nominee, and that he can and will be a great President !!!

by hebi on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 08:15:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Oeps (none / 0)

HE CAN'T BE NOMINEE NOW !!!!

You're so funny. We'll see how this plays out. I'm confident that Barack Obama can and will be the nominee, and that he can and will be a great President !!!

by hebi on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 08:18:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCain and Clinton (none / 0)

I think I'll save this post for next Saturday. We'll see where the polls are. This is what, the fifth or sixth time you guys have declared Obama's candidacy dead in the water? My own hunch is you'll all be back to flailing away about Reszko.

We'll see.

by BlueinColorado on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 12:51:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCain and Clinton comments (none / 0)

Like Iraq, Clinton and McCain seem to be aligning quite nicely. What a cute couple.

by mikeinsf on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 10:22:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

FRIENDS PARENTS WERE AT FUNDRAISER (2.00 / 1)

The quote was taken out of context completely.

by regina1983 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:36:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FRIENDS PARENTS WERE AT FUNDRAISER (2.00 / 2)

No it wasn't.

If anything the context is worse. He is at a multi-zillionaire fundraiiser in San Francisco, and the audience is laughing and chuckling at the plight of poor people.

Listen to the audio:

AUDIO OF OBAMA SF COMMENTS AT BOTTOM OF THIS ARTICLE

Subject comment begins at about 2:30, but to get the context listen to the whole thing.

by MediaFreeze on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:59:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FRIENDS PARENTS WERE AT FUNDRAISER (2.00 / 3)

He clearly said right afterward:
"Um, now these are in some communities, you know. I think what you'll find is, is that people of every background -- there are gonna be a mix of people, you can go in the toughest neighborhoods, you know working-class lunch-pail folks, you'll find Obama enthusiasts. And you can go into places where you think I'd be very strong and people will just be skeptical. The important thing is that you show up and you're doing what you're doing."

This attack on him is so dishonest and transparent. I happen to be from the Appalachian mountains and it's true. I honestly can't figure out what is so objectionable about what he said. The fact that he said that skeptics weren't racist? The fact that he conveyed how he understood their frustrations and how they manifest themselves? Or the fact that he tried to engage in an honest assessment of some of the root causes of division in our country?

This attack is worse than a dishonest attack on a single politician, it represents a cynicism which seeks to squelch, for momentary political gain, the first honest public attempt in a long time to engage in a dialogue about the sources of our division.

You should be ashamed of yourselves.

Senator Obama will be formally nominated on August 28, 2008 - the 45th Anniversary of Dr. King's "I Have A Dream Speech."

by brimur on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:03:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Tail between legs (2.00 / 0)

I'm so ashamed that we distrust this speech making charlatan. So ashamed, Not.

I didn't believe in god before the primaries and I still don't.

by NewHampster on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:11:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tail between legs (2.00 / 1)

I'll tell you. In doing the dirty work of the GOP, you are becoming them. You are *choosing* to not understand what he is saying and selectively quoting out of context. You and Hillary should be embarrassed.

by mikeinsf on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 10:05:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tail between legs (2.00 / 1)

I got the point of what he was saying and he was right in saying that we are distracted and willing to place blame where it doesn't belong. Obama's mistake was lumping faith and the belief some have in owning guns in with the rest. That's what HRC was referring to and she was right. I am a person of faith, and I find it uplifting. It's not a crutch, and I don't understand why a man who says he is a person of faith doesn't understand why some would be offended. Most of his comments were on target, but those weren't.

by TinaH1963 on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 12:01:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tail between legs (none / 0)

But this should lead you to the conclusion that he simply misspoke. The one mistake is his choice of word: "clinging". But that is no reason to infer all these dastardly motives.

Senator Obama will be formally nominated on August 28, 2008 - the 45th Anniversary of Dr. King's "I Have A Dream Speech."

by brimur on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 11:29:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama comments (2.00 / 4)

I am being honest. He does comes off as elitist by criticizing religion and guns. He sounds like he's deriding people of faith and people who feel passionate about owning guns. I am a spiritual person by choice; I happen to attend a liberal church where most of the congregation are quite affluent and there is a certain level of elitism prevalent--now, don't misunderstand me, these are good people, but I often run into the attitude that people with white-collar jobs and college degrees are smarter than everyone else. I know Obama didn't mean to come off this way, but he did. I've said this before--many Obama supporters seem to feel that they are smarter than everyone else. That may not be fair, but when you call low-income and older voters "low-information" voters, you open yourself up to the charge of elitism. Fundamentally, I don't think he is elitist, but I do think he's arrogant and sometimes patronizing, even though I do believe he has some valid points.

by TinaH1963 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 11:50:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I heard it. (2.00 / 0)

Obama was dead on correct in his comments. It is unfortunate that pulling one sentence out of context can be spun into such a viral negative; but there it is. Frankly, when I heard about this, I began to question whether Obama was too intelligent to be President. He speaks in paragraphs of coherent thoughts, but the media only reports sentences.

Nos causidicus Obama , ergo nos non suadeo

by rb608 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:15:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I heard it. (2.00 / 1)

Hereabouts, it would appear his daring to speak about realities instead of bromides is a fatal flaw.

Of course, it used to be that he was criticised for not being specific. Now he's being too specific.

Obama's right -- there is a segment of the US population -- usually the white population -- that votes for Abortion or Gay issues, but is screwed economically. (See, "What's the Matter with Kansas"). Obama is right to look at it. These are natural democratic populations -- who have been exploited. We won't win them back by exploiting in turn.

It's really sad though -- the glee over Obama's "gaffe" of speaking truth.

I hope after a 8 years of multi-millionaires helping themselves, America will be willing to listen to an "elite" if you will, who took his elite education and when into the city to use it for good.

And the pure Chutzpah of the Clinton campaign just boggles my mind in this. Democrats accusing democrats of being elitists. And the one accusing the other of being elitist are the ones with $111 million.

Who needs republicans.

Fight the Smears!

by Lettuce on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 09:48:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I heard it. (2.00 / 2)

Kinda reminds me of Democrats accusing Democrats of being racist.

by Dave B on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 11:07:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I heard it. (none / 0)

Find me a quote of Obama or any of his official spokespeople calling someone in the Clinton admin racist.

Find me a quote of either Clinton calling Obama's patriotism or committment to poor people in question.

For what it's worth, I can find a couple of the latter from yesterday. I have only heard Obama and his official spokespeople disavowing accusations of Clinton racism.

Note: I don't think the Clinton campaign has ever accused Obama of misogyny. But the attempts to use this to 'ruin' Obama for Hillary's chances are blatent and depressing as someone who cares most about seeng a Democrat elected.

Fight the Smears!

by Lettuce on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 08:45:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Jesse Jackson Jr. Kicked it off with (2.00 / 1)

"Hillary didn't cry about Katrina." Jesse Jr. is playing the race card.

Hillary is a racist because she cried in NH and not for Katrina.

by Dave B on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 09:17:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Jesse Jackson Jr. Kicked it off with (none / 0)

Jesse Jackson Jr. Isn't a member of the Obama campaign.

Any actual proof?

Fight the Smears!

by Lettuce on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 12:11:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I heard it. (none / 0)

and sentence fragments.

Capitalization is the difference between "I had to help my uncle Jack off a horse..." and "I had to help my uncle jack off a horse..."

by igottheblues on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 12:11:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FRIENDS PARENTS WERE AT FUNDRAISER (none / 0)

Yes. It was.

And you should be ashamed.

by Drummond on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 01:30:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It is being taken out of context, here's why (2.00 / 3)

It's not surprising that Clinton-McCain campaigns are taking advantage of the, perhaps, poorly chosen words of Senator Obama.

But here they are, and I will put them into context.

So, it depends on where you are, but I think it's fair to say that the places where we are going to have to do the most work are the places where people feel most cynical about government..

He is talking about places in America that are most cynical about the Government, and how Democrats have had trouble winning votes there.

Um, now these are in some communities, you know. I think what you'll find is, is that people of every background -- there are gonna be a mix of people, you can go in the toughest neighborhoods, you know working-class lunch-pail folks, you'll find Obama enthusiasts. And you can go into places where you think I'd be very strong and people will just be skeptical. The important thing is that you show up and you're doing what you're doing.

Meaning you have to go to every community and work for votes.

But the truth is, is that, our challenge is to get people persuaded that we can make progress when there's not evidence of that in their daily lives. You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not.

It means exactly what it says. There are towns all through the 'rust belt' that are devestated and not only are jobs scarce, but so is hope.

So it's not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

And this means what it says too, but not in the way it's being taken by the diarist.

It's NOT surprising people have gotten bitter about their jobs being shipped overseas or someplace else. People do cling to their religion, it's free and it helps us get through hard times. Our Constitutional rights are free too, so we hold them dear.

And if people don't think that NAFTA and the fact that we are shipping our jobs overseas doesn't produce an "anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment", then they are just fooling themselves.

Poorly worded, yes. But it's the truth.

by DaveDial on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:43:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Let's put it in context then... (2.00 / 4)

Obama was talking to a crowd of multi-zillionaire Silicon Valley backers. These people are amoung the most self-important people on the planet. Obama was explaining to them why he is having trouble connecting with poor white working class people, and his reasoning is that these people are so twisted up by their poverty and hopelessness that they have embraced their guns, religion and bigotry, and can not even see clearly what it is that is in their own good--that being him... Obama... the guy that all those folks have just written big checks to.

The idea is to explain the lack of support amoung poor white people as being invalid due to confusion brought on by their hard economic condition. To flatter the rich supporters for being so enlightened as to see clearly the goodness of Obama. To appeal to these rich people that they are better than the poor people who can't see this clearly. And finally, he is appealing to the do-gooder nature of these rich supporters that by supporting Obama they are actually helping these poor white people who don't even know enough to vote for what is in their best interest, again him... Obama.

This is an appeal that works very well with these Silicon Valley types who have no problem at all in believing that anything they think is absolutely the only truly true truth.

by MediaFreeze on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:09:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

He could have worded it better (2.00 / 1)

...it's true, Obama worded it better here:

And for 25, 30 years Democrats and Republicans have come before them and said we're going to make your community better. We're going to make it right and nothing ever happens. And of course they're bitter. Of course they're frustrated. You would be too. In fact many of you are. Because the same thing has happened here in Indiana. The same thing happened across the border in Decatur. The same thing has happened all across the country. Nobody is looking out for you. Nobody is thinking about you. And so people end up- they don't vote on economic issues because they don't expect anybody's going to help them. So people end up, you know, voting on issues like guns, and are they going to have the right to bear arms. They vote on issues like gay marriage. And they take refuge in their faith and their community and their families and things they can count on. But they don't believe they can count on Washington. So I made this statement-- so, here's what rich. Senator Clinton says `No, I don't think that people are bitter in Pennsylvania. You know, I think Barack's being condescending.' John McCain says, `Oh, how could he say that? How could he say people are bitter? You know, he's obviously out of touch with people.'

"Out of touch? Out of touch? I mean, John McCain--it took him three tries to finally figure out that the home foreclosure crisis was a problem and to come up with a plan for it, and he's saying I'm out of touch? Senator Clinton voted for a credit card-sponsored bankruptcy bill that made it harder for people to get out of debt after taking money from the financial services companies, and she says I'm out of touch? No, I'm in touch. I know exactly what's going on. I know what's going on in Pennsylvania. I know what's going on in Indiana. I know what's going on in Illinois. People are fed-up. They're angry and they're frustrated and they're bitter. And they want to see a change in Washington and that's why I'm running for President of the United States of America."

But honestly, folks, despite this attempt to "Macaca" Obama, are you really arguing that a vote for the multimillionaire Clinton dynasty who sent everyones' jobs overseas, and who get the majority of their campaign donations from corrupt corporate interests, and who hired the PR firm of Blackwater, Monsanto, and paramilitary Colombia to run their campaign--is less elitist?

Obama, the son of a goat herder, the guy who turned away from high-level DC jobs to work in the inner city of Chicago, the guy who won't take lobbyist money, HE's the elitist?

Come on. That is pure projection.

by rhetoricus on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 12:51:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FRIENDS PARENTS WERE AT FUNDRAISER (2.00 / 1)

Obama's ONLY mistake is that he CRITICIZED both the Clinton and Bush administrations from free trade as to why they didn't have jobs and government let them down:

You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not.
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0 408/Obama_on_smalltown_PA_Clinging_relig ion_guns_xenophobia.html

And he is right on target, and that's why both Clinton and mcCain are furious and now making him out to be an "Elitist" yeah, what he's saying in so many words, these previous administrations have done to them and all the waiting for things to 'get better and return" has not happened.

by Wary on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:02:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I was at fundraiser 2 hours prior (none / 0)

in the Silicon Valley on the same day. He spoke about guns at that event as well. he actually responded to a question about the problem of inner city gun violence and the need for gun control. you know what he said? He talked about the need for "reasonable" gun control legislation because counterbalanced with the need to control inner city violence is a culture in largely rural America where guns are a part of life and must be respected. he indicated that he had just arrived from Montana a few hours earlier where he said everyone seemed to have a gun, and he essentially went about explaining to the mostly ultra-liberal anti-gun crowd that it is part of their culture to have guns. I think the comment was something along the lines of how fathers and sons have been going hunting for generations in the same way a father and son in other places plays baseball and that we have to respect that. I think I learned quite a bit from that response about people who are not like me. Condescending? quite the contrary. I'd call it incredibally enlightening. I know a lot of you on this board are pro-Clinton and it is hard for you to get over the fact that she's losing, but I think you all are going to be very proud of this guy if you give him a chance as your President.

by gabejack on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 08:23:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Context means a whole lot..... (none / 0)

Read the whole portion. It makes a huge difference and is quite striking in its honesty and truthfulness.

OBAMA: So, it depends on where you are, but I think it's fair to say that the places where we are going to have to do the most work are the places where people are most cynical about government. The people are mis-appre...they're misunderstanding why the demographics in our, in this contest have broken out as they are. Because everybody just ascribes it to 'white working-class don't wanna work -- don't wanna vote for the black guy.' That's...there were intimations of that in an article in the Sunday New York Times today - kind of implies that it's sort of a race thing.

Here's how it is: in a lot of these communities in big industrial states like Ohio and Pennsylvania, people have been beaten down so long. They feel so betrayed by government that when they hear a pitch that is premised on not being cynical about government, then a part of them just doesn't buy it. And when it's delivered by -- it's true that when it's delivered by a 46-year-old black man named Barack Obama, then that adds another layer of skepticism.

But -- so the questions you're most likely to get about me, 'Well, what is this guy going to do for me? What is the concrete thing?' What they wanna hear is -- so, we'll give you talking points about what we're proposing -- to close tax loopholes, you know, roll back the tax cuts for the top 1 percent. Obama's gonna give tax breaks to middle-class folks and we're gonna provide health care for every American.

But the truth is, is that, our challenge is to get people persuaded that we can make progress when there's not evidence of that in their daily lives. You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

Um, now these are in some communities, you know. I think what you'll find is, is that people of every background -- there are gonna be a mix of people, you can go in the toughest neighborhoods, you know working-class lunch-pail folks, you'll find Obama enthusiasts. And you can go into places where you think I'd be very strong and people will just be skeptical. The important thing is that you show up and you're doing what you're doing.

by Yalin on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:25:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Context means a whole lot..... (2.00 / 3)

In order to be a successful mass communicator, you have to master the art of being succinct - especially in unscripted remarks. You have to be one step ahead and understand how easily your words will be taken out of context, because this is a TV world and relatively few people will stick around for the context.

My head aches at the thought of an entire presidential campaign of playing "W.O.R.M" (What Obama Really Meant). This isn't a fricking graduate seminar, it's a political campaign - and he showed poor judgment.

by Susie from Philly on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 11:28:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Context means a whole lot..... (none / 0)

He showed poor judgment for giving an answer that requires people to move beyond the standard 30 second soundbite?

Is that all you want in a leader, someone who has to distill a complex problem/issue into a nice bite-sized edible nugget of marketing blah?

by Yalin on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 09:34:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

He's talking about the Guns, God & Gays crowd. (none / 0)

So Dems are fools for talking about that? It's all over the internets and folks like Howard Dean have talked about them so I guess there are a lot of foolish Dems.

My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!

by RLMcCauley on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 09:02:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

you forgot to mention that "bitter" (none / 0)

is a dog whistle for cannibals.

4 years of McCain = 4 more years of Bush.

by ashriver on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 09:24:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's elitist contempt for everyday people (2.00 / 7)

are you saying people DON'T blame immigrants when they can't find a job? or that people DON'T blame trade policies?

or are you saying he should never actually say this no matter what kind of truth there may be?

its true and I thought we democrats understood this, Immigrants get blamed for way to much,

wow are we the GOP party now?

Obama doesn't back away from saying the truth even if people dont want to hear it, you are right we shouldn't vote for him

Obama said, as Bill beamed. "Thank you, President Clinton."

by TruthMatters on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:21:49 PM EST

Re: Obama's elitist contempt for everyday people (1.75 / 8)

Some - not everyone, and not just in small towns. Obama is perpetuating a stereotype.

Fight for Democrats in Congress.

by owl06 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:23:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's elitist contempt for everyday people (2.00 / 2)

wait so you said some, did he say EVERYONE?

otherwise there would seem to be some truths in what he said no?

or do you think there isn't a xenophobia problem in this country? or do you think Obama shouldn't be talking about it?

so Obama said EVERYONE in small towns was like this?

Obama said, as Bill beamed. "Thank you, President Clinton."

by TruthMatters on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:25:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's elitist contempt for everyday people (1.83 / 6)

read the quote. he's talking about people in depressed areas and then says, "they get bitter." That's a prime example of someone that is using a hammer instead of a scalpel.

Fight for Democrats in Congress.

by owl06 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:31:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's elitist contempt for everyday people (none / 0)

I would say two things... Obama was referring to people in small towns... the diarist infers that, apparently, only people in small towns are everyday people...

I live in a city, am I an every-other day person?

Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...

by JenKinFLA on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:36:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

would write it off except that there is a pattern (2.00 / 2)

of remarks like this by Obama.

He's selfish and deceptive. His healthcare plan does not hold much kindness in it for poor people because they pay for insurance, but they don't receive peace of mind in return. They trade affordability for inadequate coverage which means many more people will die because they can't afford healthcare. people will still hesitate before going to the doctor. They still wont be able to afford drugs they need.

Things like these (below) will still happen..

http://www.latimes.com/features/health/l a-fi-healthinsure-sg,1,3627886.storygall ery

Thats the main reason I'm supporting Hillary, she's not a phony.

Universal healthcare IS a core Democratic value
Comprehensively cover 100%, not only the healthiest 80%

by architek on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:44:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: would write it off except that there is a patt (none / 0)

and people supporting Obama would take issue with the "Hillary is not a phony" line... I have seem posts which would indicate the opposite is true.

We all have our preferences, but, first of all, what the H3LL does this have to do with healthcare and secondly, are we not reaching a point of critical mass where we get so outraged over little things, the big things get a pass...?

Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...

by JenKinFLA on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:49:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The years around age six are crucial for developme (1.50 / 2)

The years around age six are crucial for development of one's conscience and moral compass.

I understand that like Bush, Obama had a very stressful childhood.

That puts him at high risk for narcissistic personality disorder. One of the symptoms of NPD is a contempt for 'common' people and a feeling that one is above the rules and behaviors that most of us live our lives by.

Not all of them are psychopaths, many are highly functional and enter law, politics, the clergy, anywhere where they can get the respect they feel they deserve.

Universal healthcare IS a core Democratic value
Comprehensively cover 100%, not only the healthiest 80%

by architek on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:54:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The years around age six are crucial for devel (2.00 / 1)

Oh, I see... internet psychology rears its ugly head...

May I call you in for a consultation the next time I see a post referring to the Clintons as sociopaths?

Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...

by JenKinFLA on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:04:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The years around age six are crucial for devel (none / 0)

If I remember correctly, this person posted an entire diary on the subject not too long ago. Obama has NPD because this diarist grew up/knows people with it and can therefore diagnose people via television sets. I'm fairly certain they graduated in the same TV medicine class as the esteemed cat doctor Bill Frist.

And so, may evil beware and may good dress warmly and eat lots of fresh vegetables.

by thatpurplestuff on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:14:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Really got to you, did he? (none / 0)

Truth hurts.

by internetstar on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 08:01:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

This is a dispicable use of pop psychology (2.00 / 1)

Based in pure speculation and ignorance. Using psychological terminology as a weapon, based on woefully incomplete information, flies in the face of the spirit of the psychological community. As a therapist, I find this statement unethical, and as a citizen I find it manipulative.

by nwgates on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:06:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I stand by my comments (none / 0)

...

Universal healthcare IS a core Democratic value
Comprehensively cover 100%, not only the healthiest 80%

by architek on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:29:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I stand by my comments (none / 0)

Gee, color me not surprised....

Your clear and utter contempt for Obama might be clouding your judgment though... I would ask for a second opinion...

Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...

by JenKinFLA on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:35:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yes, I'm sure you do (none / 0)

Some people go to school for years to make these types of discernments, but hey, I'll take your word for it.

You've convinced me.

by nwgates on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 09:22:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

school of hard knocks.. (none / 0)

Universal healthcare IS a core Democratic value
Comprehensively cover 100%, not only the healthiest 80%

by architek on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 09:33:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What does that even mean? (none / 0)

by nwgates on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 09:51:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: would write it off except that there is a patt (2.00 / 1)

Obama supporters sure have mastered the whole 'changing the subject and turning it around I am rubber and you are glue five year old attempt at debating'. It takes a whole lot to try and spin this one. But hey, you guys spun Randi Rhodes.

by apolitik on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:29:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: would write it off except that there is a patt (none / 0)

I haven't seen a single post saying anything about rubber and glue...

But hey, you guys seem to have mastered the whole changing the subject via ad hominem attack on the commenter or the candidate, so I guess we have all learned something this cycle.

Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...

by JenKinFLA on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:39:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: would write it off (none / 0)

Someone who says they are against NAFTA while she pushed it for her husband and her campaign manager tried to push the Columbia Free Trade Agreement is not phony? You are very naive.

by Toddwell on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:50:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: would write it off except that there is a patt (2.00 / 1)

He's selfish and deceptive.

Thats the main reason I'm supporting Hillary, she's not a phony.

Now that's productive. You could've made a point about healthcare without the name-calling and insults, but you couldn't resist, eh?

by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:06:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I uess I'm not that calculating... (2.00 / 1)

I'm only human..

Universal healthcare IS a core Democratic value
Comprehensively cover 100%, not only the healthiest 80%

by architek on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:30:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I uess I'm not that calculating... (none / 0)

it's "calculating" to NOT insult Obama? Insults are your default mode?

C'mon, man. I'm not asking you to start praising the guy, but can't we at least keep the insults out of it? On both candidate's sides?

by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:35:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I uess I'm not that calculating... (none / 0)

you're also biased....

Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...

by JenKinFLA on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:37:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I uess I'm not that calculating... (none / 0)

As if you are not? Or are you implying you are Messiah too?

Everyone in here is biased. Only some have the maturity to keep their bias away while reading other people's perspectives.

by Sandeep on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 12:43:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: except that there is a pattern (none / 0)

/the main reason I'm supporting Hillary, she's not a phony/

LMFAO.

You owe me a new laptop for spitting cola all over it.

by reggie44pride on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:58:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

That is how you lose Rural Votes and mid west (2.00 / 1)

through the typical comments

Just Words

by indus on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:27:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's elitist contempt for everyday people (2.00 / 3)

Small point - As I understand it Obama made these remarks from the safety of a San Francisio mansion surrounded by millionaire donors. Would he dare say such things in front of a Pa. crowd of ordinary people?

by Tolstoy on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:45:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's elitist contempt for everyday people (1.00 / 4)

I dare say he would not make those comments at a town hall meeting in a small town in PA. And, his patronizing, and contemptuous attempt to portray empathy is pathetic and laughable.

Would Obama say that about inner city youth in urban areas in PA? That they're "bitter" and hate immigrants, cling to their guns and religion?

Somehow I doubt he'd issue such stereotyped assertions there either.

Nope. Obama was in his element on Billionaire's Row in San Francisco, among the moneyed elitists who are paying for access in his White House. They'll get it, too. But those "bitter" people in those small towns in Pennsylvania won't get access. They don't have the money to get access from an elitist snob like Barack Obama--a man who made a deal with a corrupt political fixer to purchase a mansion Obama couldn't afford.

"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Harry S Truman

by Tennessean on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:59:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's elitist contempt for everyday people (none / 0)

enough of the name-calling. this is getting ridiculous already.
"deal to purchase a mansion Obama couldn't afford" is false.

by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:11:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

So the Chicago house is only worth $1.6M? (none / 0)

or three or four times that?

Universal healthcare IS a core Democratic value
Comprehensively cover 100%, not only the healthiest 80%

by architek on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:32:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So the Chicago house is only worth $1.6M? (none / 0)

The sellers have stated on the record that he gave them the best offer. Is it worth more now? Yes. Home values have gone up. Have proof of anything else? Post it. If not, zip it.

by grover738 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 11:58:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's elitist contempt for everyday people (2.00 / 4)

The bottom line is he paints a broad brush stroke, stereotyping over half of America's population as hicks, and panting him and his supporters as the enlightened. It's an insult and his comment perfectly portrays elisist liberalism. Insulting those who are religious is out of bounds, and stereotyping the rural population is out of bounds as well. How would Senator Obama feel if Hillary started going around saying about African-Americans "Well, it's not a suprise they get bitter, all they do is hang on to playing the victim and blaming whitey, with entitlement sentiment"? While that statement is certainly not true, it mirrors Obama's in terms of stereotypes of a broad swath of Americans which are much different than his elisist liberalism would like to paint them as.

Hillary supporter for Barack Obama in 2008

by zcflint05 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:28:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's elitist contempt for everyday people (1.50 / 2)

Woe, standard Repug talking points. Are you even a DEM.?

by lion king on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:40:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's elitist contempt for everyday people (2.00 / 2)

I don't stand for trashing rural populations because someone believes they are "above" them, no matter which party that takes place in. Thank you.

Hillary supporter for Barack Obama in 2008

by zcflint05 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:55:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's elitist contempt for everyday people (none / 0)

That anyone here can make the leap that he feels he is "above" them is proving the anti-Obama-bias that you have. Unless you can show me the line where he said that..

Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...

by JenKinFLA on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:07:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Was he a Harvard legacy? (2.00 / 1)

or wasn't he?

Universal healthcare IS a core Democratic value
Comprehensively cover 100%, not only the healthiest 80%

by architek on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:33:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Was he a Harvard legacy? (2.00 / 0)

oh, that's fabulous... so now people from Harvard are now not everyday people... Is that all people who went to an Ivy League school as well...? How about all people who went to college period...

Seriously, we are almost knee deep in the Right wing talking point about intellectual elitism... you're almost there.... come on.. a little further....

Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...

by JenKinFLA on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:42:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Doubtful! (none / 0)

He did undergrad at a small CA college and then transferred to Columbia; and since his father didn't attend Harvard Law it's rather unlikely any sort of legacy was involved.

But you knew all that.

by amiches on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:43:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Is Hillary a presidential candidate legacy? (none / 0)

or isn't she?

Senator Obama will be formally nominated on August 28, 2008 - the 45th Anniversary of Dr. King's "I Have A Dream Speech."

by brimur on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:11:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's elitist contempt for everyday people (none / 0)

he was speaking of people who live in small towns in Pennsylvania and in the midwest... By what metric does this equate to "over half the population of America with you?"

Truth be told, these areas have been shrinking in population as people move toward the cities or suburbs around the cities. The populations have been growing back a bit due to an influx of Hispanics.

I realize at this point we are relegated to dissecting and parsing every single word these candidates make, but, as I have lived in small midwestern towns in my life, I am trying to figure out what he said that is incorrect..

Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...

by JenKinFLA on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:43:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

So, are you trying to say its okay to write off (2.00 / 1)

half of America?

All the people who can't afford to move to the cities?
The rural areas are losing most of the jobs that are moving away, the big cities have the diversity economically, but as gas gets more expensive the central city areas become extremely valuable real estate. So now, people like Rezko are forcing the people who live there out, so they can make millions on condos. But there is nowhere for them to move TO.

Its not just rural America that is effected by elitism and Social Darwinism, its the urban areas as well.

Universal healthcare IS a core Democratic value
Comprehensively cover 100%, not only the healthiest 80%

by architek on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:49:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So, are you trying to say its okay to write of (none / 0)

First of all... way to bring up a Rezko reference where none was needed.... as usual, you win today's non sequitur award...

Secondly, how are you refuting my point...? The comment I was referring to said that Obama had insulted over half of America. I took issue with the math there because over half of America does not live in small towns in the midwest and Pennsylvania, which was the focus of Obama's remarks. The cities remain the population centers in this country. They have been for over half a century...

Beyond that, aside from he fact that it was Obama that said it, which is enough for you to condemn it, what did he say that was incorrect?

Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...

by JenKinFLA on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:57:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You don't see how its relevant? (2.00 / 1)

you clearly know nothing about slumlords..

Universal healthcare IS a core Democratic value
Comprehensively cover 100%, not only the healthiest 80%

by architek on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:35:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You don't see how its relevant? (none / 0)

you're clearly biased

But your concerns are noted....

Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...

by JenKinFLA on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:43:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's elitist contempt for everyday people (2.00 / 1)

He's speaking of rural populations in general, which, mind you, make up about half the nation, and then telling us that all they do when they lose thier jobs is "cling" to religion and guns are typically, they are very racist. Just like "typically" white people are scared of blacks. See a pattern? This guy breathes elitist liberal...bottom line.

Hillary supporter for Barack Obama in 2008

by zcflint05 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:59:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's elitist contempt for everyday people (none / 0)

no, he was not. That is an inference that you are making... He specifically mentioned small towns in Pennsylvania and the midwest...

But again, I would like you to show me the metric by which you conclude that rural populations make up about (yes, I realize you have now changed it from over half) of the population... The population centers of this country are the cities and the suburb around cities... This has been the case for roughly half a century.

He also did not say they were "typically racist"... yet another inference you are making. You apparently exaggerate to make your points, bottom line...

Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...

by JenKinFLA on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:12:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's elitist contempt for everyday people (none / 0)

Oh, and "elitist liberal" was a Right-wing talking point used as a description of John Kerry, so thanks for that...

Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...

by JenKinFLA on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:32:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's elitist contempt for everyday people (2.00 / 1)

Comments like Obama's reinforce that statement. Comments like that are elisist, no matter what party they come from. If we want to "stop right wing talking points" we probably shouldn't reinforce that stereotype by making comments about "clinging on religion" and insinuating xenophobia in front of multi millionaires in San Francisco. Just a thought.

Hillary supporter for Barack Obama in 2008

by zcflint05 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:56:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's elitist contempt for everyday people (2.00 / 0)

insinuating xenophobia...? I hate to break this to you, but xenophobia is alive and well in America today. Tom Tancredo ran for President based almost solely on xenophobia.

Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...

by JenKinFLA on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:37:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's elitist contempt for everyday people (none / 0)

/This guy breathes elitist liberal...bottom line/

I agree, but it's all over the left-wing. Hillary Clinton does too, she just hides it better now because she's been the "working class" candidate this season, by some miracle/stroke of luck for her.

by reggie44pride on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:01:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's elitist contempt for everyday people (2.00 / 1)

Obama supporters cling to Obama because their lives are spiritually empty right now.

Not so fun to be on receiving end of such a comment now, is it?

by catfish1 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:44:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

everyday people (2.00 / 2)

when Hillary spoke about immigrants and jobs, she said a reason for immigration reform is the driving down of wages, that kind of competition that costs jobs with decent wages, and Obama claimed, with media help of course, that she was pandering to black voters. Obama has the right to insult working people if he wants, but don't think he's taking the high road on what's really wrong, he's taking the pot shots at Hillary. Clinton is using this quote in a speech in PA and it's covered on CNN. This is not good news for Obama, neither that he thinks white out of work citizens are bitter, nor that we all know that's what he thinks now. Looks like this contest just ended.

Hillary - alternative energy

by anna shane on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:11:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's elitist contempt for everyday people (none / 0)

Hillay is so freaking desperate. Her backers should try to enjoy the rest of the day, because tonight Obama will be heard in full sentences. This attack doesn't even use actual phrases that he said. It fuses individual words together and adds some new ones. Hillary can't drop out soon enough! The $109 million ordinary gal. Christ!

by kitebro on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 09:49:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's elitist contempt for everyday people (none / 0)

What he said is very true. If it causes a problem he can give another speech similar to his race speech to explain further. The man is teflon, this won't hurt him.

by Becky G on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:23:51 PM EST

Re: Obama's elitist contempt for everyday people (1.75 / 4)

I hope that was snark. You can't be THAT deluded. No way, no how Wright has passed him by. The 527's are going to be SOOOO much fun if he's the nominee.

Fight for Democrats in Congress.

by owl06 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:25:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's elitist contempt for everyday people (none / 0)

You must of course mean, WHEN he is the nominee. It's very nice of clinton supporters to be so CONCERNED, but with your support we'll easily beat the Repugs this year. Again, thanks for supporting our democratic nominee.

by lion king on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:45:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

no, he lost today (none / 0)

McCain is also quoting him and it's contempt, bitter, clinging to religion? No, I would have preferred her to win simply by being the more competent, this way he lost it, but hey, that's the way of the world. Mark this day on your calendar, he ought to have jumped on vice a while back, he may be tarnished goods now. Sunk not by his associates but by his contempt for poor people.

Hillary - alternative energy

by anna shane on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:17:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

since I have never heard this before (none / 0)

from a Clinton supporter, it must be true.

4 years of McCain = 4 more years of Bush.

by ashriver on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 09:22:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]