Obama Must Win Pennsylvania

Cross posted at texasdarlin.wordpress.com

Let's get real. It's mid April and Obama hasn't closed the deal. Sure, he's got a slight delegate lead, but he's also failed three times to end the primaries: first in New Hampshire; next on Super Tuesday, particularly California, Massachusetts, and New Jersey; and yet again on Super Tuesday 2, notably Texas and Ohio.

(Of course we're not supposed to talk about Florida, but he lost there too despite being the only candidate who broke the campaign pledge and advertised in that state. Source)

And now Obama's campaign is lowering expectations yet again, this time for Pennsylvania, another key battleground state. Surrogate Claire McCaskill recently predicted that Obama would lose Pennsylvania by "double digits." Which means, I guess, that if he loses by 9%, Obama will try to claim success.  Another surrogate, Sen. Bob Casey, didn't help the expectations game much when he said:

"President Clinton and Senator Clinton, either in terms of campaigning or governing, have been in this state for 15 years...Hillary Clinton chaired health-care hearings in 1993. She has a good base here, but I think we can cut into it." (emphasis added.) Source

In fact, it appears that the reverse will be true, according to SUSA, the most reliable pollster this election season. Their new poll says Clinton has actually cut into Obama's lead among white men recently.

What's wrong with this picture?

Has there ever been a Democratic nominee who lost the primaries in California, New York, New Jersey, Massachusetts, Texas, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Florida? (Obama would definitely still lose Florida if there were a re-vote, which is why he opposes one.)

Howard Wolfson was right when he said during a conference call on Monday:

"[Obama is] doing everything he can to win in Pennsylvania, and if he can't, it'll be a serious defeat...We all know the road to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue runs through Pennsylvania." Source

A while ago I wrote a diary called Hillary's Winning Coalition in which I discussed the reason for Hillary's success in the key battleground states, not only in the primaries, but more importantly for the general election:

Clinton leads among the groups that comprise the greater percentage of voters: women, blue collar workers, older voters, whites, and Hispanics. A Pew poll predicts that substantial numbers of whites, seniors, and lower-income Democrats could cross over to vote for McCain in the General Election if Obama were the nominee.

Hispanics may only make up approximately 7% of the electorate in November, according to a December 2007 Pew report, but their geographic distribution creates an opportunity:
Hispanics loom as a potential "swing vote" in (the) presidential race. That's because they are strategically located on the 2008 Electoral College map. Hispanics constitute a sizable share of the electorate in four of the six states that President Bush carried by margins of five percentage points or fewer in 2004 -New Mexico (where Hispanics make up 37% of state's eligible electorate); Florida (14%); Nevada (12%) and Colorado (12%). All four are expected to be closely contested once again in 2008.

Source

(Polls have indicated that McCain has a good chance of capturing Hispanic voters, against Obama.)

The bottom line is crystal clear. Obama has had pitch-perfect success in caucus states; he's done well with liberals and cross-over voters; and he's definitely sealed the deal with African Americans. But he does not bring home the Democratic base.

Time and again, he has failed to cut into Clinton's fundamentals. And without a candidate who has locked up Democratic women, lunch-bucket workers, people over 50, Hispanics, and a majority of white people -- we cannot win in November. The demographics for each candidate are solidified now; the patterns are predictable. Obama does not have a winning coalition.

Howard Wolfson was right on the money. Hillary does not need to win Pennsylvania by 20 points, contrary to Camp Obama's mantra.

It is Obama who needs to win Pennsylvania. It's his last chance to prove to the super delegates that he can carry the critical Democratic base required for victory in November.



Display:


Re: Obama Must Win Pennsylvania (1.71 / 7)

What does it mean if Obama loses Pennsylvania?


TexasDarlin blog
by TexasDarlin on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 12:35:14 PM EST

Re: Obama Must Win Pennsylvania (2.00 / 15)

That Hillary is stronger than Obama in Pennsylvania on 4/22/08.

So?


by DamnYankees on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 12:37:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Must Win Pennsylvania (2.00 / 3)

your answer made coffee come out of my nose!  good one!


"I am standing with Barack Obama to say, `Yes, we can!'" Hillary Clinton 6/7/08
by feliks on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 12:42:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Must Win Pennsylvania (2.00 / 5)

It also means that she has the endorsement and muscle of the governor and the mayors and ward leaders of every major city.  And oh, let's not forget the state party has endorsed her too.

She's going to win Pennsylvania - there's just too much institutional support for her for any other outcome.  What does it mean in terms of delegates is the real question.


by Mostly on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 12:45:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Must Win Pennsylvania (2.00 / 4)

I agree, she'll win Pennsylvania.

There are 50 states, though.


by DamnYankees on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 12:46:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Must Win Pennsylvania (2.00 / 5)

In Hillary's America there are 50.  Obama only counts 48.
***A
by adrienne4dean on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 01:00:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Must Win Pennsylvania (2.00 / 3)

That is unless the state holds a caucus and not a primary.


"I am standing with Barack Obama to say, `Yes, we can!'" Hillary Clinton 6/7/08
by feliks on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 01:02:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Must Win Pennsylvania (2.00 / 10)

"It's clear that the elections aren't going to count for anything" -Hillary Clinton.


by Mostly on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 01:05:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Must Win Pennsylvania (2.00 / 2)

ah yes, those were the days...


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 01:42:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Must Win Pennsylvania (2.00 / 2)

It wasn't so long ago that the Clinton campaign was saying that only 5 states really matter. I think they were Texas, Florida, Michigan, Ohio, and Pennsylvania.


unapologetic Obama supporter
by dantes on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:18:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Depends on the margin (2.00 / 4)

10 points or less, not much.  14 days later he'll win North Carolina by as much as 20 and maybe Indiana too.


by newdealer on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 12:57:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

nope (2.00 / 1)

she only needs to win PA and she will win IN and WV etc... his win in NC is just another small red state we don't need in November.  Winning in NC really is meaningless.


DON'T COUNT THE VOTES, DON'T COUNT THE VOTES.... Obama and the Obamaettes... spring 2008
by TeresaINPennsylvania on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:12:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: nope (2.00 / 1)

So then Teresa, what states are meaningful?? And how exactly is Hillary going to catch up in pledged delegates, total votes, or states won????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????
by lion king on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:15:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Remember (2.00 / 1)

The most a-fucking-mazing coincidence in election history is the strange fact that Clinton happens to win all of the significant states, while Obama wins the much more plentiful insignificant ones.

Except Illinois, but he's got homefield advantage, doesn't count.

Never mind that delegates are awarded proportionally, so big states actually DO have more of a say.  


by nwgates on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:20:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Remember (none / 0)

I'm not sure if you're being tongue in cheek, but are you suggesting that Obama can't win California or New York? What are your odds? I'd really, really, REALLY like to get some money down on that one.


by bookish on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 03:26:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Snarky-snark (none / 0)

Of Course Obama will win NY and Cali- the whole big state argument is hooey.


by nwgates on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 04:57:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Snarky-snark (none / 0)

Sorry. You can never tell around this place. The whole up-is-down mentality is starting to affect my snark radar.


by bookish on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:10:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: nope (2.00 / 1)

"his win in NC is just another small red state we don't need in November"

NC is the 10th largest state in the country by population.  It will be the largest that Obama will have won (except IL).  It is also a state that could go Dem in Nov.  It has a large AA population and having Obama as our nominee could help us there.  Hardly insignificant by any stretch.


by DreamsOfABlueNation on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 03:47:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

perhaps you hadn't noticed that... (none / 0)

...Obama and Clinton are competing for the Democratic nomination.  

The coin of the realm in this battle is convention delegates.  Period, end of story.  

Obama has run a campaign for delegates to the convention, not one for the general election.  If he had been running in the general rather than the primaries, his strategy would have been different.  Perhaps it would have been similar to Clinton's campaign.  That the Clinton campaign didn't (and seemingly still doesn't) understand that the primaries aren't the same sort of beast as the general is the beginning point for analyzing the failure of her "inevitable" candidacy.

Today, Obama has the backing of more delegates than Clinton.  After Pennsylvania, he'll have the backing of more delegates than Clinton.  After North Carolina and Indiana, he'll have the backing of more delegates than Clinton.  And so on, for as long as Clinton wants to deny reality.

The superdelegates are breaking his way.  Her primary-election money is running short.  It's just a matter of time.


by N in Seattle on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:30:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Are you saying NC votes don't count? (none / 0)

Ironic all things considered.


"Once in a while you get shown the light In the strangest of places if you look at it right"
by molly bloom on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:09:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Must Win Pennsylvania (2.00 / 2)

Right now, the Obama campaign is spending an unprecedented $2.2 million per week on TV ads there -- an amount one Pennsylvania strategist called "unbelievable."

If Hillary wins PA despite being outspent more than two to one, and despite far more critical media scrutiny, she'll have proven herself tough enough to withstand anything, and right to fight all the way to Denver.

Will she do it?  YES SHE WILL.

***A


by adrienne4dean on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 12:59:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Must Win Pennsylvania (2.00 / 0)

I know you want to believe this, but no independent political analyst does.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 01:08:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Must Win Pennsylvania (2.00 / 4)

There's no 'if' about it - she will win Pennsylvania.  The party machine is behind her 100%, and that counts in the big democratic states.  He's paying to cut into her lead, not to win it.

He'll take his delegates and she'll take hers.


by Mostly on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 01:08:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Healthcare... (none / 0)

Obama doesn't want to address problems like this (below) that makes him not only deceptive, but vulnerable..

Elizabeth Edwards at Association of Health Care Journalists 2008
3/29/08

http://www.kaisernetwork.org/health_cast /uploaded_files/032908%20-%20ahcj%20edwa rds_transcript.pdf

    "We can expect a woman who is diagnosed with a brain
    tumor to a better hope that she disclosed those headaches
    that she had 15 years ago but she first got that insurance
    policy, that health insurance policy because her health
    insurance policy may now be covered by state law that allows
    rescission even for an omission that seemed inconsequential
    at the time because she didn't know about her pre-existing -
    she didn't know about the brain tumor that she - 15 years
    before because there's no limit on the look back time. That's
    true in a number of states in this country. They can go back,
    look at your applications - did you completely describe your
    condition. Even if you didn't know about the pre-existing
    condition, they can rescind or fail to cover the condition if
    they - it was pre-existing at the time.
    Now the question is how do you know? Well then you
    take them to court and then are you required to prove the
    negative? I bet there's going to be states that say you do
    and if there is, I bet that's where these policies are going
    to be written. There are real consequences to the differences between the candidates and there's no way - there is no way
    for the regular voter to work this out in their heads even -
    honestly, it's not that easy for me and this is what I do
    with - I talk about health care. I have to say I have some
    trepidation about talking always.
    I was in Colorado one time, 2004, and I got the first
    question on grazing and I thought - I looked around I thought
    shoot, everybody in this room knows everything there is to
    know about grazing and I don't know a darn thing. Now I know
    a little bit but in some events, it's almost more difficult -
    I know a little bit and you all are likely to know lots, lots
    more so I would say there's a hesitation but the truth is
    that all of this is not just the rhetoric of somebody
    speaking.
    This is not a fairytale or even a speech. This is
    real life with real life consequences for people if these
    policies are put in effect and I say that if with some -
    because obviously what they talk about, what happens, there's
    a big gulf between it that you can just bet that we're not
    going to get anything better than what they're talking about.
    They have to at least be talking about the very best things
    and maybe we can get some reasonably close to that.
    Real life that I've lived with a devastating disease
    and I've had the very best medical care. All the while I've
    had it, I've been talking to lots of Americans who don't. They had the same condition I have, faced the same hurdles I
    have but without the insurance coverage to assure them of
    that best care and often without any care at all.
    If the costs move higher, those women or the coverage
    is reduced, those women who look to us and look to leaders in
    this country in the time of their desperate need will once
    again stand alone. It's not who we are, I don't think, rather
    we like to think we are. It's who we actually are and we need
    to shine a really bright light on that. We don't need to let
    those people for whom bad luck or genetics or misfortune has
    tapped stand alone.
    Shouldn't they know the personal consequences to them
    of their vote - both the importance of their actually voting
    and the consequences of the choices that they make. You are
    the way they get that information. You are the best, the most
    reliable source for them on making those decisions and the
    oneness, I think, I can't put the - say this too strongly -
    the oneness is on you to make certain that they make that
    decision. We don't end up in - speaking in 2012, about gee if
    we just know it in 2008 what the differences were. That's
    your responsibility. My responsibility is just to urge you to
    do it. Now I'll answer any questions that I can answer in
    whatever time they tell me before they tell me to stop and I
    didn't tell too many personal anecdotes, if you want to hear
    those, you're welcome to but thank you very much. [applause]


Universal healthcare IS a core Democratic value
Comprehensively cover 100%, not only the healthiest 80%
by architek on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 03:11:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Must Win Pennsylvania (2.00 / 3)

It looks like Obama's spending in Penn. is making a huge difference. What 2 weeks ago he was down by 28 points and now he's only down by 8. So why hasn't clinton spent more money to "close the deal" on Obama? With the size of her pocketbook, why isn't she using her money to ensure her victory? Does she not believe enouth in her own campain and chances of winning, to not invest in it????
by lion king on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 01:23:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Must Win Pennsylvania (none / 0)

It is impressive how one candidate outspending in Penn can have such a positive effect on the electorate, while the other candidate overspending on Penn can have such a negative impact on the electorate.

I guess which Penn you spend on makes more difference to people in this country.

I think we all know which Penn spending was worthwhile and which was not.


by Why Not on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 01:38:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Which Penn, LOL (none / 0)

It seems Mr. Penn can't catch a break anywhere, even amongst the bitter enders.


by ReillyDiefenbach on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 01:46:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Must Win Pennsylvania (2.00 / 1)

I see the outspending meme has taken hold - well done for reading the talking points.  Would you care to put a price on the value of the exposure from being Mrs Bill Clinton since 1992, and then compare that to Obama's PA ad spend?


by interestedbystander on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 01:57:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Winner take all!! (none / 0)

OK, best two out of three-

No, best three out of five-

No, best five out of seven-

No, heads I win, tails you lose


by nwgates on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:23:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Must Win Pennsylvania (2.00 / 1)

Yeah, she would have proven that Obama is superior in raising funds to actually pay his bills and have enough left to outspend her 3 to 1 in the remaining states....Sounds like a helluva campaign!


A useless "Community Organizer" from Pennsylvania as noted by Republicans, Rudy Giuliani and Sarah Palin
by hootie4170 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:29:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

If Obama loses Indiana and North Carolina (2.00 / 1)

Then he'll start having problems with the superdelegates. I don't see Obama winning Pennslyvania, then a week after Indiana and N. Carolina, Clinton should easily win West Virginian and Kentucky. Clinton should finish the primary season with a win in Puerto Rico.

If Clinton wins Indiana and pulls of an upset in North Carolina, we'll have a very interesting convention is Denver (If it were not already interesting).


Dizzy Zzyzzy
by Zzyzzy on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:45:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If Obama loses Indiana and North Carolina (2.00 / 0)

I actually agree with this. That wouldn't be enough for her to catch up in the number of delegates, but an upset in North Carolina would be enough to raise some eyebrows and keep her in the race. But her campaign dare not raise the notion of an NC upset because it's way to much to expect. So far, Obama's tended to outperform the polling in states that have him showing a big lead (e.g. Virginia).

IMO, If Pennsylvania roughly matches the polls we're seeing now, and Indiana is close (which seems likely), and North Carolina is a blowout for Obama (again, I'm thinking it'll basically be a rerun of Virginia), the supers are gonna drop and the show will be over before West Virginia and Kentucky.

In the unlikely event Obama gets really close (like <3-5% margin) in PA, it's over, but the supers will wait the couple weeks for NC and Indiana to happen. Their results won't matter in that case unless they're way, WAY out of line with expectations. If he wins PA outright, it's over immediately.


by fwiffo2 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 03:17:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Must Win Pennsylvania (none / 0)

Spending that money accomplishes two things.  
One, minimize Hilary's delegate and vote win, because - yes - she will win PA.  
Two - I think more importantly - he is setting the stage for November.  
Funny, Hillary supporters think he is spending money to beat her.  Unfortunately, he is already running against McCain via Clinton as proxy.  


'The only people for me are the mad ones, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing ...'
by stryan on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 03:11:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It means that (2.00 / 9)

you're trying to move the goalposts again.

Coincidentally, Obama is ahead by roughly ten, not one, percent in delegates, has a stable lead over Clinton in national polling (Gallup), and leads her in the popular vote by over a million votes.

The New York Times has the delegate count at Clinton 1474, Obama 1632, for example. You do the math.


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 01:06:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It means that (none / 0)

It's interesting that no one wants to rebut this!


by SeanF on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 03:40:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

"The earth is flat" (none / 0)

Your rebuttal, please?

Hint: some things are too obviously wrong to rebut.


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 03:50:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "The earth is flat" (none / 0)

yes, i was making the same point!


by SeanF on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 04:32:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Must Win Pennsylvania (2.00 / 1)

It means NOTHING
by lion king on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 01:07:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What does it mean? Obama must quit. (1.66 / 3)

He's pouring tons and tons of money into PA.  He actually went on a bus tour.  He should win this state...and if he doesn't, he should concede the nomination to HRC.


by Shazone on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 01:21:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What does it mean? Obama must quit. (none / 0)

well shazone why isn't hillary spendin some of her multi millions to shut Obama down? Again, does she not believe in her campaign, or ability ot win, to not invest her own money in her own campaign??????
by lion king on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 01:25:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What does it mean? Obama must quit. (none / 0)

shazone, what no answer?
by lion king on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:43:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What does it mean? Obama must quit. (2.00 / 4)

Why would the guy who's leading the race drop out?  The conspiracy buffs would be working overtime trying to figure out how that one happened.

Although it could be funny. He could suspend his race the night before North Carolina, only to say "I'm back in it!" when he wins there.


by Mostly on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 01:28:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Craziest thing I've ever heard (2.00 / 1)

You win!!!

That makes zero sense.  Why bother with all this other trouble- we should have just held our primary in Pennsylvania.  Imagine the cash we could have saved!  


by nwgates on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:26:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What does it mean? Obama must quit. (none / 0)

What flavor is the kool-aid today, Shazone?


by amiches on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:29:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What does it mean? Obama must quit. (none / 0)

That stuff your inhaling must be real good.........


A useless "Community Organizer" from Pennsylvania as noted by Republicans, Rudy Giuliani and Sarah Palin
by hootie4170 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:30:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What does it mean? Obama must quit. (none / 0)

And then he should buy me a pony.

With wings.


by kyle in philly on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 03:00:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What does it mean? Obama must quit. (none / 0)

Hee-hee. Yeah. The guy ahead in all metric should leave the race if he doesn't win a state in which he was behind by 20%+ two months ago. I suppose if he loses by 5%, you'll still be calling for his head. There is some interesting logic at MyDDelusion.


by bookish on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 03:32:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What does it mean? Obama must quit. (none / 0)

Buahahahhahahah!

I actually just spit out water on my keyboard reading this.

Wait... wait.. Are you saying that if he can't win Pennsylvania he should drop out? Really? Even though he is ahead, and will stay ahead and WILL be our nominee?

IIRC, when anyone suggested that Hillary should drop out for any reason (like how she simply cannot win at this point and it's embarassing) you Clinton "Followers" freaked the fuck out.

You make me laugh.


If you are not voting Obama, please let me know so I can replace your sorry ass with another new voter.
by Darknesse on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 04:27:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What does it mean? Obama must quit. (none / 0)

By saying something this absurd you are proving that you have no meaningful understanding of this race, or of politics in general...


ENOUGH!
by JDF on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:26:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What does it mean if Obama loses Pennsylvania? (none / 0)

That sometimes throwing $$ at a problem won't make it go away?  I will be happy to see PA go to Clinton, especially since she is being outspent 4-1.  I also enjoyed when Rudy or Mitt outspent their opponents in certain states, and then lost big.  Go Huckabee! (just kidding).


by AnnC on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:17:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Must Win Pennsylvania (none / 0)

Well, the Obama campaign is right now spending $2.2 million per week on TV ads in PA alone. Thus, when he loses, his will be the most expensive loss so far in the primaries. Granted, he has the money and as this is the first election post his Rev. Wright debacle I can understand why he pours everything he's got into it.

Still, losing after outspending Hillary like crazy will make him look weak. There's no way around that for him.


Grumpy, reluctant, sore-losing, unhappy, irritable Hillary supporter for Barack Obama 2008
by DemAC on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:22:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Must Win Pennsylvania (2.00 / 1)

It's hilarious how myopic you guys are. He's spending money to register Democratic voters, help build progressive infrastructure, and oh yeah, win an election. He'll accomplish 1 and 2, and if he doesn't accomplish goal 3, despite the incredible odds against him, you categorize that as an "expensive loss".

What he's doing will help him in the general election, since winning or losing PA will not change the outcome of the nomination.


by amiches on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:34:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Must Win Pennsylvania (none / 0)

Good for him. Since he apparently needs neither the voters nor the super delegates anymore I guess he'll be quite content if we bring them over to Hillary's camp instead. I can assure we'll use them to good effect and in the best interest of the party.


Grumpy, reluctant, sore-losing, unhappy, irritable Hillary supporter for Barack Obama 2008
by DemAC on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:44:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Must Win Pennsylvania (none / 0)

Well, he's got the voters and the superdelegates are coming, cowed only by a Clinton-dominated party machine. You were saying?


by amiches on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:59:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

si stopped in to his local office (none / 0)

to pick up lawn signs for a friend and they didn't have any.  Now it is not like there are a ton of them around, I have only seen two in peoples yards.  So I don't think they spent much of that money on local outreach.  

Dean Obama campaign, get your Scranton office some damn signs. I have some friends here who would like one.


DON'T COUNT THE VOTES, DON'T COUNT THE VOTES.... Obama and the Obamaettes... spring 2008
by TeresaINPennsylvania on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:56:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: si stopped in to his local office (none / 0)

I accidentally read one of your postings before seeing that repulsive sig line.

Just an FYI, the reason that the Obama campaign tends to run short on signs is because it built an infrastructure early in primary season to ship used signs from state to state, yet another example of how a leader should act by his example-in this case, not spending a boatload of money and toppling landfills with new signs in every state. I assume from the Clinton expenditures that this idea never made a fruitful stop in her mind.


by bookish on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 03:39:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Must Win Pennsylvania (none / 0)

Obama 'lose'?

this isn't a win or lose situation it's how many pledged delegates each candidate comes away with--Obama will get his share to add to what he already has, that's my expectation for him.

Now since Clinton is playing this 'win -lose' situation, she must 'win' a hefty amount of pledged delegates with about 20% MORE votes than Obama, so what expectations do people have that she can do that?

I'm placing my bet on the expectation that Clinton must win 20% more of the votes than Obama for a hefty pledged delegate award.


by Wary on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 03:05:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Must Win Pennsylvania (none / 0)

It means that Clinton gets to pretend to be a viable candidate for a few more weeks.


Unable to rec or rate
Still supporting Obama
Still not putting up with "preening" posts
by jaiwithani on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 03:08:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Must Win Pennsylvania (none / 0)

Absolutely nothing.  


by Toddwell on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 04:37:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Plagiarized? Lol! (none / 0)

You've been deservedly and effectively mocked.

It's amazing how easy it is to mock the Hillary arguments in most of the diaries posted here.  That you can't see how weak your arguments are, and how easily they can be made against your own candidate, is mind-boggling.


by LawStudent on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:41:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Plagiarized? Lol! (none / 0)

Agreed. Satire and/or irony do not equal plagiarism. If people refuse to address the discrepancy in their expectations for each candidate, the mockery is so deserved.

I'm still waiting for any of the Clinton supporters to lay out in finite terms the way in which she wins the nomination. I don't want to hear about the evils of Obama; I want to see the delegate math in black and white that shows how Clinton wins this race, without the language of equivocation.

I don't think there's a person out there who will do it, because the relative moral and ethical contortions needed to do so would make the author look like a scorched-earth elitist.


by bookish on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 10:59:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Must Win Pennsylvania (2.00 / 7)

Not much. It's one state and it's one that everyone expects him to lose.  There are nine more contests and people expect him to win five of those.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 12:36:03 PM EST

A win in PA doesn't do much (2.00 / 5)

http://www.slate.com/blogs/blogs/trailhe ad/archive/2008/04/10/the-superdelegate- wall.aspx

"In this pre-Pennsylvania lull--a relative term--it sometimes feels like we're just finding new ways to express how royally screwed Hillary Clinton is. Well, like it or not, the minds over at ABC have found yet another way. Their verdict: Clinton needs to win 80 percent of the remaining uncommitted superdelegates to secure the nomination.

The math is far from perfect (which they freely admit). It assumes that Clinton wins Pennsylvania, Indiana, West Virginia, Kentucky, and Puerto Rico, and that Obama wins Guam, North Carolina, Oregon, Montana, and South Dakota. In their model, they also put each victory at a 55-to-45 split.

But as an experiment, the numbers are instructive. For one thing, this is a fairly optimistic model for Clinton. Given current polls in Pennsylvania, a 10-point margin would be considered a huge win for her. In other states, it's likely to be closer as well. In the past, Obama has been able to narrow her lead by logging face time in states that favor Clinton. (See California, Texas, and, to a lesser extent, Ohio.) Certain Obama wins, on the other hand, are likely to be wide. North Carolina could well be a blowout, as many polls put him up 20 points. Even when they factor in Florida and Michigan, Clinton still needs to win 237 of the remaining 300 delegates--or about 80 percent--to get to 2025."


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 12:38:48 PM EST

slate (1.00 / 2)

paid pundits with an agenda.


DON'T COUNT THE VOTES, DON'T COUNT THE VOTES.... Obama and the Obamaettes... spring 2008
by TeresaINPennsylvania on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:04:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: slate (2.00 / 3)

80%. She needs to get 80% of remaining super delegates. That is math. In essence, this is what you've been arguing.

It doesn't matter how close Obama gets in Penn, if he can't win. By losing, he's proving to the 80% of superdelegates that need to swing Hillary's way that he can't take the White House. Your whole argument is trying to convince the 80% of super delegates that Obama can't win the GE...


unapologetic Obama supporter
by dantes on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:26:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: slate (none / 0)

Troll rated for an absolutely worthless comment.


by amiches on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:34:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: slate (2.00 / 1)

Teresa,

If you find the analysis quoted in Slate lacking, how about EXPLAINING why it's wrong and giving your own possible road map for Clinton winning?

That would be far more persuasive than name calling.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:45:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: slate (none / 0)

how long is your enemy's list, anyway?


by SeanF on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 03:56:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Crystal bowl (2.00 / 2)

Wow, you know how HRC does in the GE.

Can you help me with my lottery tickets ???


by hebi on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 12:39:55 PM EST

Re: Crystal bowl (2.00 / 0)

I'm no medium, but I believe people use crystal "balls" for purposes such as seeing into the future.    I think crystal bowls are more commonly used for things like punch and sometimes salads.


by the mollusk on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 12:44:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Crystal bowl (2.00 / 0)

You're so right about this, I grant you that, but so wrong about the state of the race.

It's about delegates, nothing else.

No significant change in delegatees in Penn, means one step closer to the nomination for BHO.


by hebi on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 01:04:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

it is not about delegates (1.50 / 2)

though I can see Obama would like to thinks so, he is so busy disenfranchising the ones from MI and FL.


DON'T COUNT THE VOTES, DON'T COUNT THE VOTES.... Obama and the Obamaettes... spring 2008
by TeresaINPennsylvania on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:05:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Crystal bowl (2.00 / 2)

You've obviously never heard of the 8-piece-dinner-set-of-fortune that Nostradamus used in the majority of his predictions.  Let's be honest here, most clairvoyants don't spend all of their time telling the future, and a crystal ball is useless for pretty much everything but that.  Crystal bowls not only allow for accurate predictions, but they let your friends know that you really care about them by providing a nice dinner setup when they come over.


And so, may evil beware and may good dress warmly and eat lots of fresh vegetables.
by thatpurplestuff on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:13:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Crystal bowl (none / 0)

The Clinton supporters have nothing left to resort to but spin. Its obvious that she's going to end the primary race behind in the popular vote and way behind with pledged delegates. Therefore, if Obama doesnt win PA... then Clinton should win? That's so inane its almost not worth disputing. Clinton has lost in almost every metric. Its arbitrary to make the case that one state should be so influential... except that is not arbitrary, its a deliberate attempt to find some HOW some WAY to put Clinton back on the map to winning this race. Its pathetic, and it pretty well exemplifies the state of the campaign. There is no path to the nomination. Each side will be trading states, which is not good for the team that's behind by three scores with about 4 minutes to go.


by AC4508 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 03:00:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Must Win Pennsylvania (2.00 / 9)

Why is Obama always expected to cut into Hillary's base and her base states, and if he can't people give her a huge victory, but no one ever expects Hillary to win over Obama's base? Have you ever heard anyone say that it'll be a huge problem for Hillary if she can't win over African Americans or young people in the general? You never hear that. But if Obama can only win enough white females and working-class whites to pull within 5 of her, it's considered a massive failure for him.

I don't get it.


by DamnYankees on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 12:39:57 PM EST

Re: Obama Must Win Pennsylvania (2.00 / 6)

I know!- it's the "Obama just isn't cleaning Hillary's clock thoroughly enough" argument.


by Mostly on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 12:41:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

If Hillary can't win NC (2.00 / 0)

She's toast.  How 'bout those goalposts?


by nwgates on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:29:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Must Win Pennsylvania (2.00 / 0)

Because people want a reason to say why a Black man can't win. Did anyone hold Kerry or GOre to a litmus test? How about Clinton. From what I have read, Bill CLinton won in 1992 and 1996 BECAUSE of the black vote.  

I love how HRC supporters gripe about sexism when it appears that racism is more of a problem.


by regina1983 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 12:55:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Must Win Pennsylvania (2.00 / 2)

Wasn't Obama supposed to be above all that?

***A


by adrienne4dean on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 01:08:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Must Win Pennsylvania (2.00 / 0)

And here it is again.  Clinton supporters start an argument, and when they get hit upside the head by logic, can only respond with the aren't you supposed to above that shtick.  Or the, aren't you meant to be better than us shtick.


by interestedbystander on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:06:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Must Win Pennsylvania (2.00 / 1)

Here comes the race card once again.


by Dave B on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 01:30:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

and Regina PLAYS THE RACE CARD (2.00 / 1)

Thanks, I love it when you do that.  It just reminds me of what I can't stand about your candidate.

There was no racism except among Obama surrogates.  However Obama and his wife both made sexist statements and the Obama addicted media did it on a daily basis.


DON'T COUNT THE VOTES, DON'T COUNT THE VOTES.... Obama and the Obamaettes... spring 2008
by TeresaINPennsylvania on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 01:51:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: and Regina PLAYS THE RACE CARD (none / 0)

I got called sexist for call Tweety a mysongonistic douchebag.  That sword cuts both ways.  People on both sides have been r-tards.  To claim that no one on the Clinton side has played the race card or no one on the Obama camp has played the penis card is either incredibly naive or just a malicious revision of fact.


Tony Romo for Secretary of Awesome
by kasjogren on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 04:20:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

ps (2.00 / 1)

Al Gore wone every single primary.  He won the big states and the small caucus states.  Then he won the GE.  Obama is no Al Gore.
Kerry ran away with it as soon as he took IA.  No one else really had a chance.  Obama time and again has proved he can only win where most democrats don't get a chance to vote.  Caucuses are not a good  indicator of who will do well in November.  
Like it or not the super delegates have a responsibility to chose the candidate who gets the support of people in states we are going to win and that is NOT the small red states Obama has won.

The only close to sure red state is Arkansas and that is if Clinton is the nominee.  There is not a single red state Obama will win over.


DON'T COUNT THE VOTES, DON'T COUNT THE VOTES.... Obama and the Obamaettes... spring 2008
by TeresaINPennsylvania on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 01:58:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ps (none / 0)

Al Gore and John Kerry were not running against another candidate with all the institutional and money support that Clinton has.


by amiches on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:38:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

what is not to get? (2.00 / 1)

Clinton's base is the majority of the democratic party.
who do you think we can lose and still win in November...clue: It's not white women and blue collar workers.
DON'T COUNT THE VOTES, DON'T COUNT THE VOTES.... Obama and the Obamaettes... spring 2008
by TeresaINPennsylvania on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 01:44:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Reality check (none / 0)

Obama leads among Democrats nationwide.


by ReillyDiefenbach on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 01:53:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

no he doesn't (2.00 / 1)


DON'T COUNT THE VOTES, DON'T COUNT THE VOTES.... Obama and the Obamaettes... spring 2008
by TeresaINPennsylvania on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:02:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: no he doesn't (2.00 / 0)

True. He doesn't lead among the Democrats that matter.


by Gimmeliberty on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:06:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: no he doesn't (2.00 / 0)

He leads amongst all voters nationwide.   You know, the ones you need to win a GE.  Good luck trying to win the just Hillary's base.


by interestedbystander on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:09:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Gallup sez: (2.00 / 0)

"As for the Democratic Race, the majority of Democrats remain in Obama's column, showing a break away that's the first sustained one since tracking began."


by ReillyDiefenbach on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:27:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gallup sez: (none / 0)

Gallup is CLEARLY in the tank for Obama.

/snark


by amiches on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:39:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: what is not to get? (none / 0)

so if Obama is the nominee, the democratic base is all going to vote McCain?


by SeanF on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 03:52:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Must Win Pennsylvania (2.00 / 8)

It means NOTHING...do you really think that if Obama is the nominee that California, New York, New Jersey, Massachusetts will flip to republican? What parallel universe are you from.You yourself said Obama does well with crossover votes. Either Clinton or Obama need crossover votes to win in the GE. And as much as you may try to wish it away, Obama's lead in pledged delegates will follow him ALL the way to the convention.


"I am standing with Barack Obama to say, `Yes, we can!'" Hillary Clinton 6/7/08
by feliks on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 12:40:30 PM EST

hello (2.00 / 1)

NJ and NY may very well flip but even if they don't, we can not win in November without PA, OH or FL.  We have to win two of the three and Obama can not do that.


DON'T COUNT THE VOTES, DON'T COUNT THE VOTES.... Obama and the Obamaettes... spring 2008
by TeresaINPennsylvania on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 01:46:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: hello (2.00 / 1)

Obama is polling ahead of everybody in Ohio right now.


unapologetic Obama supporter
by dantes on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:29:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: hello (none / 0)

you see, with Obama we get to draw an entirely new map


"I am standing with Barack Obama to say, `Yes, we can!'" Hillary Clinton 6/7/08
by feliks on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 04:17:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: hello (none / 0)

How did that strategy work for us Democrats in the past 2 GE's?


A useless "Community Organizer" from Pennsylvania as noted by Republicans, Rudy Giuliani and Sarah Palin
by hootie4170 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:38:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Must Win Pennsylvania (none / 0)

wow I got a troll rating of 10 with the truth


"I am standing with Barack Obama to say, `Yes, we can!'" Hillary Clinton 6/7/08
by feliks on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 04:01:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Must Win Pennsylvania (none / 0)

You got mojo-rated, not troll-rated.  11 people thought your post was good, not bad.


by fwiffo2 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 04:26:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Must Win Pennsylvania (2.00 / 3)

This is silly.  Bob Casey's quote is simply a statement of fact.

Also, there's never been a black man or a white woman either to ever win the nomination.  There's a first time for everything.


by Mostly on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 12:40:43 PM EST

Re: Obama Must Win Pennsylvania (2.00 / 6)

Contrary to what you said, Casey has done a great job in setting expectations with his comment,
    "President Clinton and Senator Clinton, either in terms of campaigning or governing, have been in this state for 15 years...Hillary Clinton chaired health-care hearings in 1993. She has a good base here, but I think we can cut into it."

Clinton does have a good base and PA is a very traditional state which doesn't warm to political newcomers. So if he overperforms the 15-20 point gap based on Clinton's strong base, he'll be doing fine. And he'll make up the pledged delegates by winning SC big, making it even more impossible for Clinton to get lead in pledged delegates.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 12:41:30 PM EST

"Traditional" (none / 0)

what a nice way to put it.


by ReillyDiefenbach on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:01:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Must Win Pennsylvania (2.00 / 4)

No he dosen't.  Clinton needs to win the state by 30 points to make it interedting down the stretch.  If Obama keeps it within 5, he'll have done fantastically.  I expect a 10-15 point win for Clinton.  Then Obama wins NC by 15-20, Indiana's a tossup, Oregon goes to Obama by 10, KY and WV go to Clinton by 20, and Obama wins Montana by 15.  It'll be a push at best for Clinton, which is not enough to win.


by NewOaklandDem on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 12:43:54 PM EST

Re: Obama Must Win Pennsylvania (2.00 / 3)

Nope. He doesn't have to win PA.

And the funny thing is - no matter how many times it is said here or how enthusuastically - NO ONE BELIEVES IT.

Obama DOES NOT have to win PA.

And we all know it.


by dannyinla on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 01:11:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

please correct (2.00 / 3)

Obama doesn't have a 1% delegate lead. He  has a 6% lead in pledged delegates.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 12:44:05 PM EST

Re: please correct (2.00 / 1)

Here's another way to look at it: Obama's "small" lead is the size of Hillary's margins in New York, California, Massachusetts, New Jersey, Arkansas, Tennessee, Oklahoma, and Ohio PUT TOGETHER.

So... yeah, I can see how she's going to realistically make that up in the 10 remaining constests, which include Guam, Montana, and South Dakota, not to mention North Carolina.


by Rorgg on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 01:39:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh, Shit - (none / 0)

I got troll-rated by a newbie.
For putting up a map suggesting that Obama will lose.

I'm devastated.


by johnnygunn on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 01:54:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh, Shit - (none / 0)

It's not factual, which was the trolly part.  But thanks for playing.


by Rorgg on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 02:13:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh, Shit - (none / 0)

You violate the guidelines of ratings here at MyDD.
If you disagree - say so.

My map suggested what I believe to be a likely scenario for Nov. 2008.
If you want to censor everything you disagree with, I feel sorry for you.


by johnnygunn on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 03:05:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: please correct (none / 0)

corrected that, see edit.


TexasDarlin blog
by TexasDarlin on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:15:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama is NOT going to win Pennsylvania (2.00 / 1)

and the media isn't expecting him too.

Pennsylvania is the PERFECT firewall for Hillary.  She probably will win it by double digits.  If Obama gets to within single digits than that will be considered a "victory" for him.


by puma on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 12:44:55 PM EST

Re: Obama is NOT going to win Pennsylvania (none / 0)

I hate this frame because it's such a double standard.  Anytime in the past when Clin