MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate

by Bob Johnson, Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 10:57:55 AM EST

Reality bites. Very hard, apparently.

As Clinton's window continues to narrow, the bitterness and ugliness of some her backers has reached unprecedented levels. The rec list at MyDD is filled with vile diatribes, a number of which accuse Obama of being a racist:

Barack Obama is the George Wallace of the Left - This diary was the top-rated diary at My DD for most of the last day. It concludes with this line:

I could no more vote for Obama than I could vote for George Wallace, and the reasons are much the same.

The rest of the piece is equally as inspiring.

Also on the rec list most of yesterday and this morning was this fine piece of work by linfar, a steady spewer of Obama-hate going back months:

Typical White People

linfar includes this inspirational passage:

And I will not support a racist no matter what their color. You cannot tell me that all white people are racists and expect my vote. Hillary Clinton understands that.

Sense a pattern here?

And our old friend, Universal chimes in with another wonderful diary outlining the nefarious plot to give the nomination to Obama, a plan certainly meant to doom the Democratic Party, according to Universal:

Obama backers: Please, save your breath

And, like the other two rec list pieces, Universal's also suggests that Obama is the stealth candidate of black racists:

This is a struggle for the very soul of our party. This is a coup in the making, and like many coups, all sorts of shadowy figures are involved. Like Rezko, or Wright, or Meeks, or Odinga, or Ayers, or Farrakhan...

That's right. A mixture of black power advocates and 1960s radicals is trying to take over our nation!

This off-the-rails, rec list rant wanders all over the park, concluding with:

But when Barack Obama becomes Barack Mondale, you'll realize you have no one to blame but yourselves. We're already in that spot now, and no one knows just how large the backlash can grow, particularly if stoked.

So I have to wonder...

Do these writers and all who have recommended their diaries and kept them on the MyDD rec list believe that people like Bill Richardson, Ted Kennedy, Claire McCaskill, Chris Dodd, Russ Feingold, Amy Kloubuchar, Dick Durbin, John Kerry, John Lewis and other liberal and progressive Democrats are either too stupid to see these nefarious plots, or are these folks simply racists, too?

The bashing of any Democrat who dares endorse Obama has now become routine -- and comical. In fact, it is often claimed in these pieces that the only reason some of these folks have endorsed Obama over Clinton is because of racial pressure from Obama's camp.

I guess it has never occurred to these writers and their recommenders that many Dems think Obama would make a better candidate versus McCain than Clinton and that many also believe he'd make a better president than Clinton.

While many at MyDD rail against Daily Kos as the "Great Orange Satan," one has to wonder how MyDD is any better. The vile posts at MyDD (echoed at other so-called progressive blogs such as TalkLeft, Taylor Marsh and NoQuarter) spew the kind of venom and hatred one usually finds at the worst of the loony rightwing blogs.

I can understand some bitterness at having a favored candidate appear to be increasingly on the verge of losing the race -- that is a normal part of every hotly-contested presidential primary -- but the bitterness on display at MyDD is in a class by itself.

The demonizing of every elected Democrat who has endorsed Obama and the suggestions that Obama is a racist or is a Manchurian candidate for black power or racist puppetmasters marks those writers as seriously delusional and filled with hate.

No, you are not a Democrat if you make those kinds of off-the-wall accusations against good Democrats. You have become an unhinged fanatic.




Tags: MyDD (all tags)

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Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (1.63 / 19)

If you can't take the heat then GET OUT. No one is forcing you to come here.


by bsavage on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 10:59:36 AM EST

Simply making an observation. (1.80 / 21)


by Bob Johnson on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:00:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Simply making an observation. (2.00 / 18)

It is a good observation, Bob, and I agree with much of it.

But if you really want to united the Democratic Party behind the eventual nomineee, whomever that may be, then you should consider a similar diary on Daily Kos.

I commented in that George wallace diary and defended Barack Obama.  That diry was, as I called it, "a POS."    

But we both know there has been vicious attacks on Senator Clinton on Daily Kos also.

The problem is their are fanatics supporting both candidate.

If you really believe Obama is going to prevail, then you must want a unified party behind him.  That requires the courage to equally confront those on your own "side" who's acts harm Barack Obama.

To defeat McCain, we need a unified party.  That means treating both Obama and Clinton supporters with repsect and rejecting hate from supporters of either candidate.  

Treating the many decent Clinton supporters with respect on Daily Kos is a good start and writing a similar diary when Daily Kos atacks on Senator Clinton are out of hand would help.

What is it you really want?  To be cool?  An A-List blogger? Or do you really believe Obama can make real change if elected.

If you do, then do what really helps Obama.  That is finding common ground between Obama and Clinton supporters who are willing to do so.

Otherwise, this diary is just another attack on them.  You're mostly right here.  Many MyDD diaries on the Rec List are wrong (Allegre excluded.  While a fierce partoisan, she seems to stay on the right side of the line).

It is both sides.

What Obama and Clinton (and their supporters) have torn asunder, they must put back together of we will have President McCain.  


by TomP on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:17:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

PS, sorry about the (2.00 / 0)

typos and tense errors.  I typed fast without proofing. :-)

But I think what I write is understandable.


by TomP on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:21:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: PS, sorry about the (2.00 / 1)

I think I've been lurking and posting here for about 4 years, but the George Wallace diary nearly drove me away for good. The vitriol here is deep. Like Bob, I was amazed that the top rated diaries all seemed to be so hateful. As one longtime fan of MyDD, I think the level of discourse has sunk much lower here than at DailyKos, despite the self-righteousness of the Clinton-supporters who congregate here. I've been an Obama supporter since mid-February. But that should be no reason I should have to abandon this site, which I have relied on for years for excellent blogging about progressive Democratic politics.
by xtrarich on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 04:11:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Level of Discourse (2.00 / 6)

I daresay you will at least find the usage of profanity much less common here.  

The name-calling on dKos got so ugly I couldn't stand it.

We can't keep savaging each other if we want to win this election in the fall.  What should be a cakewalk may well turn into a rout at the rate we're going.

We need to do four things:

  1.  Discuss the issues in a civilized manner
  2.  Refrain from personal attacks
  3.  Cite sources for facts
  4.  Acknowledge that a statement is opinion when you can't back it up with facts.

None of this precludes passionate discussions.  But it may well keep us from filing for divorce from each other when this is over.


by creeper1014 on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:48:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Simply making an observation. (2.00 / 6)

I get that comment too when I ask "why all the hate here."

No -- you DONT have to go to DailyKos and post a similar diary.
a) It is not your responsibility. You are posting here, and your post has merits here, and should be discussed on those merits.

b) The fact is, there is serious anti-Obama backlash going here, more so than anything I've seen as Anti-Clinton. That's not to say that there isn't worse Anti-Clinton stuff out there, but this is the blog we are posting at, this is the blog that, for whatever reason, this diarist cares about enough to plead for common sense.

I don't understand the anti-Obama vitriol. Accusing him of racism (seems to be the attack de jour) is just another in a long stream of Obama's a plagerist/nafta conspirator/secret republican/ debate-hater/anti-American/Harry-and-Lou ise-lover/Wright-agree-er/vote-stealer accusations that seem to be building up to the inevitable email list outlining all the people that Obama has had killed for political game.

Oh wait, that was Clinton. But it really seems to be the same thing. The right had their Clinton derangement syndrome, and myDD is growing into an all-purpose Baracknaphobia destination, where if it's bad enough to make you personally sick -- Obama did it!

My boss just came in and made the classic case that it was Hillary's turn, after years of scut work she earned her place on the ticket. I pointed out, at my peril, that she had every advantage going in, and Obama is winning with the votes she claimed it isn't about votes it's about respect.

I think she sees herself in Hillary, that Hillary's candidacy is what SHE earned. I see that a lot here, and the anger of that being stolen by a young man who's just been hired, I mean, elected -- I really believe she feels it stolen from HER -- it placed squarely on Obama's shoulders.

I still think that anger is stoked by the anger we all feel at the Bush admin, and like many countries coming back from years of lousy government, those who are passionate about change seldom disagree -- and seldom turn down the passion. But there is something else, an internalism of Hillary's problems that is unique. Often I see a similar accusation against blacks (they won't vote for Hillary, they're being blackmailed, they think it's about them)... but the merits of that are another discussion.

But, as Obama said in his speech about race, understanding both sides' anger is a productive early step for moving on. I hope so.


Fight the Smears!
by Lettuce on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:50:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Simply making an observation. (2.00 / 1)

I agree that most rational people are quite stressed after 8yrs of Bush and his uncommon sense.  (to put it lightly)

I also honestly think that it is reasonable to assume (although a tin-foil hat is required) that some of this discourse here and there and other places has been started and maintained by real trolls.  (the people that benefit most from this Democratic infighting is definitely Repubs)  It is not a stretch to look at some comments made here (and as I said on other forums) and see that they are just trying to instigate things.

Even if it is a comment that supports your candidate, if it is bs, and you know it, you should call them on it. (and troll rate)

If there was a little more effort by everyone that is an actual rational and aware person here to keep things real in the reality based community, things that are said that are not real will become obvious.

Honestly, the only ones that benifit from comments inspired by fear and faith and personal attacks and all that negative bs, are republicans.  The only way they can possibly win anything in our lifetimes again is by splitting us and confusing us, etc.  Keep it together and we win.  


by herenow on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:19:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Simply making an observation. (2.00 / 1)

Given that the posters Bob attacks have been posting here for months and years, that you have been posting here for barely a day, and the Bob came here with the expressed purpose of pursuing the diarists who abandoned DKos...

I don't think you are in any position to speculate on who is a troll. Nor does anyone here find your attempt to exclude longtime posters or belittle their legitimate anger particularly unifying.


by souvarine on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:53:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Simply making an observation. (2.00 / 4)

Actually some of the worst offenders have not been here long at all.


by interestedbystander on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 01:03:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Simply making an observation. (2.00 / 1)

Troll rated?


by interestedbystander on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 04:47:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Simply making an observation. (none / 0)

How does the length of time I've been posting here make any difference?  I've been reading here for a long time, and this is the subject that I find important enough to spend my afternoon discussing.  

I am not at all belittling anyones anger.  Only suggesting that maybe there are other ways to deal with a situation rather then emotional responses.  That was actually the first time I have ever troll rated someone, (on any site) and I only did because the comment is an exact example of what is wrong that is going on.  Rather then discuss the issue, it is dismissed and the writer is told to leave.  Do you really think that would help?  If everyone that didnt see things how you want them to just went away?

This is obviously a legitimate problem because many people are so emotional.  If people are ever going to get past it they are going to have to at least try to discuss it.  Not just dismiss those that don't agree with them.

Anyways, whichever.  


by herenow on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 01:45:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Simply making an observation. (2.00 / 1)

Not to even mention Bob's own complicity in the tone at dKos.


Rules are not necessarily sacred, principles are. - Franklin Delano Roosevelt
by anna belle on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 02:34:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Lettuce, let me tell you that you are wron (2.00 / 2)

about you said.

You wrote "b) The fact is, there is serious anti-Obama backlash going here, more so than anything I've seen as Anti-Clinton. That's not to say that there isn't worse Anti-Clinton stuff out there, but this is the blog we are posting at, this is the blog that, for whatever reason, this diarist cares about enough to plead for common sense."

My wife who supports Hillary Clinton and has been along time contributer to the DK was sent emails to her private account with hate pictures, hate mail, even threats if Hillary wins. They clogged her inbox with 100s of bullshit emails every day. They sent her viruses so her computer gets infect. Finally, one day they made her cry. If you are telling me that Obama supporters walk on water and somehow nicer, you are mistaken and in total lalaland. I mean it became so personal that i had to wrote Kos and ask him the reign in the hyenas and he wrote back (or one his minion wrote back) saying that this is a free blog and there is nothing he can do about it and it has always been like that. Bullshit, he encouraged it at the beginning and he knows that very well.

So, please don't give me that we-are-soooo-evil-to-Obama bullshit line.

Is there a backlash against Obama because of his supporters? You bet. How big of a backlash? I don't know, but i suspect that it's going to have some impact somewhere. I am one of those who have been turned off to obama by his supporters? Yes, i bet there are plenty of folks out there who are just tired of the sanctimonious bullshit that his supporters have been spewing. I personally can no longer listen to you folks. I didn't care about all this stuff at the beginning, but the day they made my wife cry and clogged her inbox with bullshit emails and viruses, this thing became personal to me.


by Tudor on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 01:11:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Nothing... (2.00 / 3)

Nothing that you wrote corrects this:

"The fact is, there is serious anti-Obama backlash going here, more so than anything I've seen as Anti-Clinton. That's not to say that there isn't worse Anti-Clinton stuff out there, but this is the blog we are posting at, this is the blog that, for whatever reason, this diarist cares about enough to plead for common sense."

I'm sorry for your wife's experience. I do not condone it or, frankly, understand it. Kos, nor Jerome, can control what readers do through... was it a private email acct? I don't know the intricacies of a Kos acct.

And I don't doubt there was horrible anti-Clinton stuff going on. No question. There has been since 1991, if I remember correctly.

But that doesn't make it less like Apples and Oranges. If people here are comparing Obama to George Wallace now, and hundreds of others are agreeing, that's just silly and ridiculous. Not comparable to your wife's daily kos experience, but it needn't be to still be wrong.


Fight the Smears!
by Lettuce on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 01:27:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nothing... (2.00 / 1)

Well, this is what you get. Human beings are too complex and when you push them around and bully them, they tend to rebel...and i think what you see and read around here is some kind of rebellion.

I personally hope that it dies down a bit, but i have no doubt about its origin. Obama supporters really pushed the envelop and rubbed many many people the wrong way.

PS: she made the mistake to post her private email account on her profile. Well, she canceled that account anyway and left the blog and everything is fine now. However, she will not vote for Obama "even if he dips himself in gold" as she said. Thanks for your concern.  


by Tudor on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 01:37:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nothing... (2.00 / 2)

I'm sorry about your wife's story. There's no excuse for that kind of behavior.

But when you say that she will never vote for Obama as a result, that's where you lose me. You can't hold Obama accountable for the actions of a small group of obnoxious DK members.

By that logic, I should reconsider voting for Hillary based on some of the names I've been called on MyDD, but I still have every intention of voting for her should she earn the nomination.

A few weeks ago one of Clinton's advisors appeared on The O'Reilly Factor to promote the boycott of DKos. The Clinton advisor told similar stories of hate mail and threats. When she tried to suggest that Obama was somehow complicit, Bill cut her off and reminded her that Obama can no more control these people than Hillary can control her supporters. If Bill O'Reilly, someone not known for his level-headedness, can see that there are bad apples on both sides, I hope we can too.


by jdusek on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 02:33:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Lettuce, let me tell you that you are wron (none / 0)

Tudor,

I am sorry that your wife had the bad email experience.  I wrote about it in a comment on Kid Oakland's diary today on dkos.  I think you may find the diary interesting if you have time to read it today.

In any case, please let me add my plea.  No one should make a decision about the correct person to hold the position of President of the United States based on the admittedly egregious misbehavior of immature, misguided idiots on the internet.  It's far too important to our nation and the rest of the world.  

We as a nation cannot afford another 4 years of a Republican administration.  Please keep that in mind as you and your wife decide what to do as we go forward in the general election campaign.  I know that you know that or neither you nor your wife would spend the time that you have in the progressive blogosphere.  

And if either of you venture back to Daily Kos, I think that you will find that the tolerance for such misguided behavior has disappeared.  Yes, it's a heavily trafficked blog and there will always be a few immature idiots but, by and large,  such behavior is called out when it occurs.  

Namaste.


by vbdietz on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 10:13:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

My head is numb TomP (2.00 / 4)

It is spinning from the substance of your logically presented, well reasoned response. Everything you say is dead on balls accurate.

Comment rec'd.


by johnnyappleseed on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:12:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Simply making an observation. (2.00 / 0)

I rarely post on Dkos because of the immense volume over there. But I have confronted Obama people over here, even if it's to a lesser extent. I am not shy about bashing Obama even when I support him.

And I agree with this diary. THe diaries on the rec list are ridiculous. I don't why the hell Jerome even bothers posting those guideline diaries because he sure as hell does little to enforce them.

What I find hilarious is not just the hatred but the flip flopping of principles among the supporters of the two candidates, especially Hillary's. One year ago, I was one of 2 or 3 lonely voices supporting third party voting and even now, I dont begrudge it as long as it is not part of some sore loser syndrome. ANd I remember the one or two people or whoever agreed with me were certainly not Hillary supporters. Now all of a sudden I see screaming hysterical Hillary supporters talking about not only not supporting the DEmocratic nominee if it's Obama, but talk about voting for McCain or cheeering on those who would vote for McCain. We have members on both sides conveniently rationalizing why superdelegates are legitimate or caucuses are acceptable to them as valid measures of nominating a candidate but I am willing to bet a lot of these people would flip on these ideas if the primary went the other way. I just do not trust many of MYDD peers to come up with an argument full of conviction.


by Pravin on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:23:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Simply making an observation. (2.00 / 0)

I think it would be best if a Hillary supporter such as yourself posted a similar diary on DKos, using examples of the hate shown towards Hillary and her supporters there.  It would be better coming from you than coming from an Obama supporter like Bob J.

It takes a lot of courage for Obama supporters to come to this site and write pro-Obama diaries (or even reconciliation diaries).  I wrote a let's all get along diary here and was flamed by Hillary supporters as being disingenuous.

Hillary's supporters should show the same courage by writing pro-Clinton or reconciliation diaries on DKos.  It's my opinion that they would be treated better but there's only one way to find out.


That One is the Right One for 2008.
by GFORD on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:40:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Did post thoughts calling for reconcilliation the (2.00 / 1)

other day on Daily Kos and got ridiculed and attcked.


by laternighter on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:53:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Pro-Clinton Kos Post last night (none / 0)

Here's the link:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/3/31/ 185328/835/332/487846

Overall, I would judge the comments on this one were rather supportive and positive.  Yes, there was a trollish Obama supporter or two, but I rec'd and tip'd the diarist, and I'm die-hard Obama.

But what does the tit-for-tat "evidence" fight solve?  McCain is still getting a free ride while the "DEMOCRATIC CIVIL WAR" [insert scary Faux News music here.] continues on.


by Coach Jay on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 03:05:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Did post thoughts calling for reconcilliation the (none / 0)

other day on Daily Kos and got ridiculed and attcked.


by laternighter on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:53:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Simply making an observation. (2.00 / 1)

Go read some of Alegre's diaries on Daily kos - you can search for them - and see how she was treated. You don't read pro-Clinton diaries often on Kos because the immense amount of hatred that one endures posting pro-Clinton over there. That's why Alegre went on strike - it became impossible. BTW, DK has suspended the posting privileges of lots of clinton posters who weren't being taken out by autoban - meaning, they weren't trolling or engaging in TR'able behavior.


by Little Otter on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:56:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Simply making an observation. (none / 0)

But look at some of Alegre's diaries and posts on this website...she writes the same ridiculing remarks that made her leave Kos in the first place.


Toot, thank you for raising such a terrific person...You done good and we will have you in our hearts.
by hootie4170 on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 01:41:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Simply making an observation. (none / 0)

Thanks, I'll do that then report back to you.


That One is the Right One for 2008.
by GFORD on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 01:41:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Remember (2.00 / 2)

While you are at it, that Little Otter's information is highly skewed.  DKos did not suspend certain privlidges of "Clinton supporters", the site did that to members who abused those privliges regardless of candidate. A large number of Edwards, Clinton, and Obama supporters were affected.

In fact at the time this happened the common complaint of DKos was "Edwards supporters rule the joint". Now the common gripe is "Obama supporters rule the joint".  Well, Clinton supporters rule THIS joint.  So what?  Is it surprising that like-minded people would seek each other out on the internet?

Who cares?  The important part is, what are the candidates and their campaign professionals saying and doing?  Blogs like this are only a little more relevant than the loudmouth drunk down at the end of the neighborhood bar.


Take your fear and shove it, it ain't workin' on us no more.
by Quicklund on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 02:17:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I have no problem with that. (none / 0)

The difference I see between the two sites is that the Clinton supporters here say they will vote for McSame in November if she doesn't win.

That just bugs me.  I hope I never say such a thing about voting for more of the worst 8 years of my life.


That One is the Right One for 2008.
by GFORD on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 02:43:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

This joint is not representative (none / 0)

I seriously doubt the worst of this joint represents anyting more than 5% - 10% of Sen Clinton's most fanatical supporters and/or Sen Obama most fear-wracked haters.

I think the vast majority of Clinton's supporters - I am talking about those people who do not post on blogs every day - simply see the difference in the delegate count and assume that Sen Clinton honestly can close the gap. Yes they have had 'the math' explained to them but that is like water off the back of a duck. 'The math' is, frankly, Byzantine and most people do not grasp it, certainly not on an emotional level.

So once the last primary has been run and Sen Obama has won the tourney, I think the vast majority of Clinton voters will accept their candidate had every fair chance.  The majority will rally around the nominee.

But as for the tp of the iceberg seen posting here, clearly something very strong motivates them enough to put up with some of the hateful stuff posted.  In a recently posted diary is found speculation that Obama supporters are willing to gun down Clinton voters in order to win the election.  A score or two comments passed until someone bothered to criticize that accusation.

So remember, this place is not representative of the mainstream Clinton voter.  If you find this place to be a sewer, remember that reflects only upon those that thrive in the offal.


Take your fear and shove it, it ain't workin' on us no more.
by Quicklund on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 04:19:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Okay, here's what I found. (2.00 / 2)

First, she didn't write a 'let's all get along' diary on DKos so I couldn't check out the comments.

I picked the following Diary to read because Alegre was defending Hillary on Northern Ireland and Kosovo.  Since that is a controversial stance, I figured it would be a good place to find comments calling her names (and more importantly calling her supporters names en masse).

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/3 /10/233439/265/973/473984

There were a couple of hundred comments and I read every single one.  The b** word was used several times only by people who claimed to be Hillary supporters (as in Proud to be a B***).  Those comments were jumped on by Obama supporters as offensive.  I couldn't find a single instance where anyone said anything negative about Clinton supporters, not one.  

While the bulk of the commenters disagreed with Alegre's position, there were also those who agreed (and they weren't flamed for doing so).  The ones who disagreed were mainly complaining that Alegre used only one source for all her links -- HillaryHub -- which they felt was not a reliable source.

Okay, I've done my homework.  Now you do yours -- show me where the Obama supporters get away with calling Clinton supporters names on DKos.


That One is the Right One for 2008.
by GFORD on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 02:11:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Okay, here's what I found. (none / 0)

You should read more than one. keep going.


by Little Otter on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 02:54:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Okay, here's what I found. (none / 0)

I picked a random sample.  If what you postulate is true, in hundreds of comments, there should have been a few examples of people calling hillary supporters names.  All comments were on topic.

I could pick any diary here at random and would find someone calling all Obama supporters brainwashed (or the equivalent) and at least one person claiming they will vote for McSame in November.

I rest my case.


That One is the Right One for 2008.
by GFORD on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 03:06:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Okay, here's what I found. (none / 0)

Alegre posted a diary almost daily. So, yes, it's entirely possible to grab one at random where there wasn't much abuse. But believe whatever you'd like.


by Little Otter on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 03:38:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You made a claim. (2.00 / 1)

The onus is on you to back up that claim.  Provide a link to your evidence please.


Check out McCain.
by you like it on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 07:05:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

If you were replying to me, apparently (2.00 / 1)

you are mistaken about whom I support.  I do not support Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama.  I will vote for the nominee.

Actually, it is Obama supporters who must police Daily Kos and Clinton supporters who must police MyDD.

I saw how Clinton supporters were treated on Daily Kos by some Obama supporters.  You are wrong.  It was vicious.

At the end of the Edwards campaign, right before the South Carolina primary, Daily Kos still favored Edwards 42 to 41%.  I offered some Clinton supporters sanctuary in EENR, not because I favored Clinton, because I was a rather prominant Edwards supporter, but because the way they were treated was morally wrong.

The EENR group would have protected them in EENR diaries.  I told the Clinton supporters that we would not have tried to convert them.  Trix was there.  

I saw these wars up close and personal for over a year.  So don't feed me bullshit and call it hope. I saw the tactics as implemented by various supporters on Daily Kos.  

Both Obama and Clinton supporters created this.  It is up to both sides to come together.  Unless they prefer President McCain.    


by TomP on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 01:42:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hi Tom, (none / 0)

Lie you I was an Edwards supporter.  I thought it was lunacy to nominate Obama or Hillary.  I didn't think the country was ready to vote for an African America and Hillary has her negatives.  

I was wrong about America and blacks and I couldn't be more surprised or happier.  However, I became very angry with Obama after that Reno Gazette interview.  I've written about that enough, so I'm not going to rehash all that but quite frankly, I do not want Obama as my president.  Not until he can show that he has pushed aside the baggage he's brought to this election, not until he's done something that he has to stand by and not until he stops injecting race into the campaign.  

I am a progressive and liberal Democrat but I do not like Barack Obama.  I think that's really OK, if that is how I truly feel.  As I have said before, the only thing I like about his is that he's black and what that would do for the self confidence and goals of the black kids and adults too.  It's just too bad that this guy who had so much promise appears to be quite the conniving liar, in my opinion.

On the DailyKos I attacked Obama.  I was furious with him after he said that 80% of our medical costs go to 20% of the population, meaning older Americans.  That was another Obama injection of hate to split the children from the older people because the kids don't want to pay high medical insurance, so he is talking right to them.  I think Obama is as transparent as Saran Wrap but I am confounded why nobody sees it.

So, after reading that stealth attack on older Americans, I wrote on the Dailykos, fuck him and the horse he rode in on.  The Obama Gestapo on the Dailykos swarmed me and everything I wrote thereafter.  You know what went on there.  Say one negative thing about their candidate and you get hit with 100 comments drowning out anything you've said.  That made me dislike Obama even more because he fed that anger, especially when he said that Hillary's supporters will vote for him but his probably won't vote for her.  These were code words for many of the jerks on the DailyKos to become even more oppressive.  

The injecting of race is what will lose nomination or the general election for him.  He will not be president.  Can you come up with any reason for Obama to attack Andy Young and Charlie Rangel as racists?  Anyone who believed that was an idiot.  He attacked Robert Johnson for being a racist because he alluded to Obama's drug usage, which he talked about in his bood.  That was tough but certainly not racist the same way it wasn't racist for Billy Shaheen to ponder, off the record, about Obama's drug usage, like we should have pondered about Bush.   Was that racist?  The Obama team had the nerve to attack Hillary for crying, implying that was racist.  I think Obama is disgusting and stooping to that level is not what I want out of a Democratic candidate for president.  He is such a despicable phony as he sends out his surrogates to build a tidal wave against Hillary staying in the campaign and then this liar says she can stay as long as she wants, she should stay in, it's good for the party.  It makes me want to throw up.

Now his surrogates are saying that he wants the delegates from FL and MI to be seated and I listen to them I think I am hearing Ari Fleischer, spinning lies and deceptions, rapidly in monotones with no voice inflection...like a robot.  So, my position is, after all his lies, his relationship with Jeremiah Wright which is ongoing and even the arrogance of his wife are things I do not want in the White House.  However, I will have more respect for him if he pushes for re-votes.  Without them he's finished, with them, if he wins he has a chance.  If he loses Florida and Michigan by large percentages, the supers will be committing malpractice if they vote for him.  His only chance, however, is to run in MI and FL and win.  If he and Dean successfully disenfranchise those states, I will automatically vote for McCain because the evil I fear is real.

Don't compare this place to the Dailykos.  Everyone has a chance to debate here.  There are pro Obama recommended diaries here.  Just look down the list at the Dailykos and you see one Obama blow job after the other.

It's just like the Republicans and Democrats.  The Democrats don't have to clean up their act and learn to respect the other side they already know how, only the Republicans need civility lessons.  The people here are diverse and terrific and for there to be peace among the Democratic bloggers it has to come from the Dailykos, apologizing for being the animals they were.  

I wrote a diary on that horrible site yesterday and Eternal Hope called me a piece of shit. Using the name Obamorons and saying that Obama supporters are blind is not like attacking a individual Obama supporter.  MsCasey wrote on the Dailykos that Hillary a cunt.  If she could back it up, it would be crude but respected if it was correct.  I have called Obama a lying SOB but I said why.  That is what I think he is.  You know what goes on there.  The animals there have to be put back in their cages and Markos needs to take control of the site.  I am so grateful for mydd because I like the balance, I respond here with respect and it is a place to get informed.   I am not participating in a formal strike.  I am just losing my desire to be on the Dailykos because I found a better place.  Will I slip and use Obamorns from time to time, probably, but that is nothing compared to the way Hillary supporters are treated there.  If you remember the abuse started against Edwards supporters.


by cpa1a on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 03:44:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hi cp1a. (2.00 / 1)

Yes, I remember.  Some of the Obama supporters harmed Obama greatly by their obnoxious personal attacks.  People remember being called racists and worst.  I remember. I became quite disillusioned with the place last fall.

Yet the vicious attacks here lately are so similar.  The George Wallace diary was wrong.  Indeed, any real critique of Obama and his tactics is harmed by over the top attack diaries.  Such diaries are easy to ignore.  It is harder to ignore a serious critique.

I'll still vote for Obama or Clinton if nominated.  If you refuse to vote for Obama and he is nominated, I hope you at least don't vote for McCain.  Abstain or vote Green.

Take care.


by TomP on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 03:59:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Simply making an observation. (2.00 / 1)

It's been done.  Sorry you missed it.  Hillary supports wrote thousands of words of support and pleas for reconciliation only to have their DKos diaries trashed and slimed for months on end.  I could site chapter and verse but what would be the point?  We left and for some of us it was with heavy heart because our longtime virtual home had become a vile place filled with hate.


by Tolstoy on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 03:01:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Simply making an observation. (none / 0)

Could you please post a link detailing some of these charges?  I keep hearing these claims and have never seen any evidence.

Thanks!


4 years of McCain = 4 more years of Bush.
by ashriver on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 12:48:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

We were taught to hate.... (1.66 / 6)

by the early, obnoxious Obamaphiles.

And once you cross a new threshhold, it's hard to go back!


by Shazone on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:33:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: We were taught to hate.... (2.00 / 2)

It appears you learned well and are quite happy being a hater. So you are going to vote for McCain because of what somebody said on the internets?
How sad.
by jwolf on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:40:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

No. I'm not voting or I'll write in... (2.00 / 6)

my candidate.

And my life is quite full of love and sunshine, but thank you for voicing your concern for me.


by Shazone on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:49:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No. I'm not voting or I'll write in... (2.00 / 1)

And when my Reproductive Rights are taken away and more of my friends are sent to Iraq indefinitely, I'll be first in line to thank you so much for your integrity.


by cecilybecily on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 02:15:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hey - I was one of those who got... (none / 0)

those reproductive rights for you.

And thank you for your kind words.


by Shazone on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 03:31:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey - I was one of those who got... (2.00 / 1)

As was my mother and as am I willing to fight against people like you to keep them secure. Your sarcasm is dusgusting. My friends are dying. Our soldiers are dying. Innocent Iraqis are dying. I'm so sorry your candidate isn't winning.


by cecilybecily on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 03:49:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

But Cecily, darling, Hillary actually has a... (none / 0)

PLAN for getting the troops home.  BO talks a big game but then gives a wink and a nod to foreign delegates that he will start to figure out what to do when he becomes POTUS.

So if you want your friends and troops and innocent Iraqis to stop dying in Iraq, vote for Hillary for a sure thing.

All talk and no action will get us NOWHERE!!!


by Shazone on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 04:05:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: But Cecily, darling, Hillary actually has a... (none / 0)

Actually, as far as I've read, their respective plans are not all that different. They both plan to talk to people who can help make a plan. They both plan to surround themselves with the best of the best and listen to how we can remove troops without creating more chaos. I wish it was as simple as just pulling everyone out, but I realize it is not that easy. It's going to take great minds coming together (with a common goal of troop removal) to figure this thing out. And I did not vote for Barack over Hillary because of these issues. I believe either one of them will end this war in a timely fashion, definitely sooner than McCain. I don't think either candidate differs much on issues. They are both dems and stick mainly to the dem platform. I have always believed Barack will win in a ge and still do think he will fare better than Hillary. There are other reasons I support Barack over Hillary, but that is not the point of my comment.

My anger directed towards you is not because you support Hillary. My anger is because you have stated you will not vote for Barack if he is the dem nominee. That is a vote for McCain. That is a vote for 100 years in Iraq. That is a vote for overturning Roe v. Wade (remember all that work you once put into it). Not voting is NO ACTION. Follow your own advice, that's all I ask. Don't let all your hard work, and my mother's, and now mine, go to waste because you are upset your candidate did not win (if that is the case).

And please stop calling me pet names as you don't know me. You are just patronizing me. I am trying to be as respectful as possible towards you. And it's fine if you want to name call, I can certainly take it as I've seen and heard far worse, but I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt here.


by cecilybecily on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 04:37:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

But Cecily - BO has lectured voters... (none / 0)

on how he would pull out of Iraq on day 1 - you're not suggesting he was lying, are you?  It was only in an unguarded moment that one of his "advisors" (Powers - the one with the loose monster lips) told European officials that he didn't mean that - it was just what he was saying for the campaign.

My point is - if you think Hillary is the same as BO WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD YOU ACTUALLY VOTE FOR SOMEONE WHO WILL NOT WIN THE GE AGAINST MCCAIN?  And I mean Obama, not Clinton (although that is the Obama-spin that you hear all of the time.)  

OBAMA CANNOT WIN THE GE.  He will be slaughtered by the Repugs because of Wright, and Michelle, and his lies, and his inexperience and his racict campaign, and his Chicago ties. And on and on and on.

I heard a Repug rant on the radio today about a YouTube video going all around where Obama says that a women is "punished" with a baby if she makes a mistake.  While he was defending his (supposed) pro-choice position, he stupidly gave them a sound bite that will come back and bite him in the ass.

Re: BO's pro-choice position...and I know you will tell me everyone says he's 100% pro-choice...he has actually stated (e.g. out of his own mouth) that it's a decision between a women, her doctor, her family and her clergy.  WTF.  That's not pro-choice, that's a committee meeting - and you know that commitee meetings always end up badly.

So take the blinders off and think about what/whom you are supporting.  He will lose the general election.  So McCain will be your President anyway...and you and Obama will have destroyed the Democratic party in the process.


by Shazone on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 05:19:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: But Cecily - BO has lectured voters... (none / 0)

I, and millions of others, completely disagree with you. You've got to understand that. You have to understand that may be you are wrong. I, and millions of others, believe Obama will beat McCain in the g.e. You, and millions of others, believe Hillary will beat McCain. And that's where it stands. I can no more lecture you to take off your blinders and see that my side is right than you can lecture me and tell me to take off my blinders and see your side is right. It's so self-righteous to believe that you are smarter and more all-seeing than so many people- to assume your opinion is worth much more because we have all been so hood-winked and cannot see as clearly as you or your side.
   I have not been blinded, thank you very much. I have done my research in this election. I have gone to campaign rallies and read all the same news stories as you. I have just come to a different conclusion than you. My support of a democrat doesn't ruin the democratic party. Neither does your support of a democrat. Democrats voting McCain or not voting because their candidate didn't win- that is what will ruin the party.

As for the pro-choice issue- I agree with Obama 100%. I am someone who has had an abortion, I'm fairly open about it, and I don't believe such a personal thing should be a political issue at all. And many of us need support from our families, our churches perhaps, and even doctors (I had wonderful doctors who helped me through the process).  It's not about being pro-choice or pro-life. It's all personal and therefore the government should not be involved in the process whatsoever unless it is to protect those personal rights and then stay the hell out. And I believe it's something I wanted to talk through. I wanted support to know I wasn't a bad person (it was silly, but the fact that I did something that so many people publicly decry made me worry for a second). So my "committee meeting", as you have so insensitively labeled it, was very valuable to me.


by cecilybecily on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 06:50:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: But Cecily - BO has lectured voters... (none / 0)

Hey, I had one too.  But Obama is saying that a women must consult the committee - not that you might.  That's the difference.  I didn't have my family to consult.  Of course I saw my doctor...but I had to fly to NY to have the procedure.  And my minister?  No thank you.

So it was my personal decision.  I did it.  I have lived through it.  


by Shazone on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 08:33:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: But Cecily - BO has lectured voters... (none / 0)

Well there's something we have in common! Obama has never proposed a law saying women must consult others. I think in the statement you cited, he was saying that it is not a political issue, but rather an issue for women and that women could use support in making their decision. I also have a close friend who didn't consult anyone but her loser boyfriend and wound up having an abortion she really regrets. She still deals with that feeling of loss every day. Perhaps if she had a greater support system, she may have made a different decision. Who knows. It's hers in the end.

The point in the end is that we cannot stay home on election day just because our specific candidate didn't win the primary. As much of an Obama supporter as I am, even if I felt Hillary had "stolen" the election (which I would only feel if she lost the pledged delegate AND popular vote but won with superdelegates) I would be unhappy with the democratic process, but I know there are things to great and dear to me that I am not willing to risk. So I would vote for her. Hell, I'd probably help campaign. I wouldn't be happy, but I'd be pretty freaking miserable if I knew I helped elect John McCain.


by cecilybecily on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 03:04:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: We were taught to hate.... (2.00 / 4)

What the hell kind of bullshit argument is this?  You were taught to hate by your enemy so you continue to fight as they do?  If this was how everyone on the planet acted the first war started would never have ended.  

Can you not take responsibility for your own actions and words?  Seriously, wtf?  Who cares "who started it".  Where does it end?  Wouldnt you rather be the one that steps out of the loop and moves forward then the one that continues it?


by herenow on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:51:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: We were taught to hate.... (2.00 / 0)

It ends with President McCain.

That should be obvious by now, given the number of people here voting for him.


by bawbie on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:39:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: We were taught to hate.... (2.00 / 2)

Yes, let us remember the words of Mahatma Gandhi:
Give those miserable, murdering motherfuckers a taste of their own medicine.

by Jay R on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 01:15:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (1.66 / 6)

Please try to calm down for a second and read the post.  We need to unite around the Democrat, whomever it is.


Oregon Hussein KCG - Hussein means: "good; small handsome one" in Arabic.
by oregonkcg on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:01:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

NOW you want to be friends? (1.66 / 6)

With friends like Obamaphiles, who needs enemies?

Not me.  I enjoy my life and don't want or need nasty, hateful people around me.


by Shazone on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:34:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NOW you want to be friends? (2.00 / 4)

One point of the post I think is that they are "nasty, hateful people" on both sides.  I think we need to tone down the anti-democrat, anti-intellectual instincts of some of the folks here.  We'll need to unify soon, might as well be sooner rather than later.


Oregon Hussein KCG - Hussein means: "good; small handsome one" in Arabic.
by oregonkcg on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:41:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

But you only want to unify around BO. (1.75 / 4)

That's not unifying.  That's insulting to those of us who support Clinton.

Don't try and play nice now that you want/need something.  And you KNOW that you will not win if we Hillary supporters sit this one out.

Sorry, but that water is already over the damn.


by Shazone on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:46:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: But you only want to unify around BO. (2.00 / 4)

It's only insulting because you are on the side needing to hear the call to unite -- rather than stating it.

Losing sucks. Hillary had a lot of opportunities and the fact is, the country is closely split on who should be the Dem. nomineee. But by the metrics that count, were agreed upon and by which both candidates are bound, it's looking bleaker for one candidate than the other.

The blog postings of a teensy fraction of supporters of either candidate should not be taken as the candidate him or herself.

I've supported Clintons for decades with money and volunteer time. I'd have done the same. Never understood the anger some feel for the Clintons -- other than anger that they kept winning and thwarting their enemies' efforts to ruin them -- and kind of feel the same thing here, in reverse.

I do trust for most it will wear off. But then again, most aren't the few who post here, who have a lot invested in Hillary emotionally, and are understandably upset at her loss.


Fight the Smears!
by Lettuce on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:56:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: But you only want to unify around BO. (2.00 / 1)

If Obama loses the credentials committee he loses the election.

Hillary has more pledged delegates if like a real democracy we count all the votes.


by DTaylor on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:57:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: But you only want to unify around BO. (none / 0)

And we should also recognize that Sen. Clinton has no chance if "Obamaphiles" sit it out either. So judging form the level of disourse here and over on KOS the party is well and truly screwed.

I am quite sad about that.  

I go back and forth about being able to unify behind Clinton should that come to pass.  

It gets easier the less I read blogs.  Maybe we should all take a break.


by tired of dynasties on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 01:51:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NOW you want to be friends? (1.83 / 6)

Nope, the Obama supporters are much nastier. Digby has had to close down comments because the obama supporters had taken to referring to her as a cunt whenever she'd something positive about Clinton. Of course, Bob doesn't object to that. Taylor Marsh has to close down comments because of the attacks from Obama supporters. Daily Kos suspended posting privileges for dozens of Clinton supporters who weren't being taken out by autoban because they weren't trolling. Ben Smith and Paul Krugman have both been overwhelmed by the hostility from the Obama camp. Tavis Smiley's mom and brother got threatening phone calls when Tavis called out Obama for not appearing at the Black State of the Union. Obama's co-chair goes on tv and threatens elected officials with primary challenges if they don't support Obama. John Lewis finally caved in after receiving what he described as harassing phone calls. And last but not least, Obama's minister unleashes a racist and misogynist tirade against Clinton the likes of which we haven't heard since the middle of the 20th century, and Obama's supporters are amused.

There is no equivalent on behalf of Clinton. There just isn't. You can say both sides have fanatics, but Clinton fanatics forcing legitimate bloggers to shut down comments, Clinton's minister isn't observing that Obama's never been called a cunt and had to work twice as hard. No one in Clinton's camp is characterizing his work in Springfield as "shoe shining" or some other racist assumption, as Obama did with Clinton's foreign policy work.

Obama and his supporters have behaved atrociously. The misdeeds are not equally divided. That's why Obama will not get a lot of Clinton voters in November. He is not emblamatic of the Democratic party for me. I won't vote for McCain but I won't vote for someone who behaves and tolerates behavior such as Obama does and has.


by Little Otter on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:56:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NOW you want to be friends? (2.00 / 4)

No, my subjective metric is accurate. Your subjective metric is inaccurate. Your side is more offensive because I take more offense at it. I take less offense at my side, so it is less offensive by any reasonable standard, reasonable standards being my standards.

Never in history has a campaign been so ugly than this campaign that I feel is ugly. Never has a candidate been more qualified, and treated worse by the media, than the candidate I feel is best qualified and since the media doesn't seem to be backing that up.

Since I never have called myself something heinous, but a few supporters of the candidate I disagree with have called me heinous things, I will never ever vote for that candidate. That candidate is totally unqualified for office because my feelings are hurt and will continue to be hurt through Novemeber.

Later, when the Roberts surpreme court removes Habeous Corpus for all US citizens, outlaws abortions and eliminates labor rights, then the supporters of my candidate's opponenant will learn how important I am and how I should not have been called names or troll-rated once.


Fight the Smears!
by Lettuce on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:06:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NOW you want to be friends? (1.50 / 2)

Great - give us examples. When has any from Clinton's advisory staff used the word cunt in the same sentence as obama's name and remarked that's never had to work twice as hard? Go ahead - since you seem to think I'm ignoring examples of the Clintons and their supporters behaving as badly, prove it. Show us which African American pro-Obama blogger has had to shut their comments because Clinton supporters kept using the N word. If the two campaigns are equivalent, you should be able to rattle off some well known supporters using very bad words publicly.


by Little Otter on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:26:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NOW you want to be friends? (2.00 / 2)

While I'm at it, would you like me to prove your negative?

I am no more responsible for random commentators on other blogs than you are for Lou "Cotton-Pickin'" Dobbs.

I'm sure were there a way to measure vitriol between supporters of one campaign and the 'tother, one would "win."

Just as I'm sure that, in your experience, the Obama supporters clearly crossed the line. Sorry to hear that.

But that information doesn't change the campaign, nor does it accurately reflect the campaigns of either candidate - and both candidates have use offense and sensitivity for their benefit.


Fight the Smears!
by Lettuce on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:33:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NOW you want to be friends? (1.50 / 2)

And yet, you can't come up with a single example of a major Clinton advisor behaving as badly as Wright did, nor of Clinton supporters threatening delegates with primary challenges as Jesse Jackson Jr. did on behalf of Obama , nor of Clinton supporters threatening the family members who call out Clinton publicly.

That's what it all comes down to. You want to pretend the clinton advisors and supporters are as offensive as Obama supporters, but you can't present a lick of evidence to make your case.

BTW, if you really think the stakes are as high as you claim, then you should take my post seriously, and start advising your fellow supporters and your candidate to change their rhetoric. Because I don't believe the stakes are as high as you do, and I won't be threatened into voting for someone whom I find morally repellant.


by Little Otter on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:41:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NOW you want to be friends? (2.00 / 2)

I am not going to play the "prove your negative" game. Seeing as Richardson pointed to Clinton advisors attacks on him, I'll let his comments speak for themselves. I don't know anything to acknowledge or challenge the veracity of the incidents you cite -- nor do I care to try. Because it is stupid stupid politics, unaccaptable to all.

And as odious as Wright's comments are, you aren't going to goad me into that, either. Obama asked people to look beyond the soundbites. I did. Shockingly there is more to this vet with a lifetime of service than a couple youtube clips, no matter how unlikeable those are. It wasn't Obama saying these things, anymore than I hold Hillary responsible for the people who orbit her circle. That was the stuff of Ken Starr, Sciafe and the Arkansas Project. I didn't give those guilt-by-association or guilt-by-gross-assumption attempts credit then, nor do I now.

For either candidate.

Support your candidate for whatever reasons you want. But it's not my responsiblity to defend your strawmen. I'll make the case for Obama, you make the case for Hillary. But don't try to out-victim anyone. It's like NBA fouls. Maybe one team fouled more, but after a while, it's the same penalty for each. And the team that wins is the team that plays the best basketball.


Fight the Smears!
by Lettuce on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 01:12:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

After all (none / 0)

didn't our good friend Ann Coulter say she would vote Hillary over McCain and Obama? And she is one of the worst people in this country. But I would never in a million years blame Hillary for that one. You can't blame a candidate for bad supporters.


by cecilybecily on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 02:24:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NOW you want to be friends? (2.00 / 0)

So you think I should through my hat in and work side by side with people who use the "C" word to describe a committed U.S. Senator and former First Lady in order to appease them and help elect a candidate that those type of people would support? So I should just set aside everything I believe as right and wrong in order to support a candidate whose campaign has used racial and gender divisive tactics to win. So my core beliefs should just be thrown aside to elect someone just because he has a (D) by his name?


"Do you know the difference between a War Story and a Fairy Tale?"
by RedstateLib on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 01:09:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NOW you want to be friends? (2.00 / 1)

There are Hillary supporters who use the "N" word. Are you throwing your hat in with them?

Hey look, now we have matching strawmen!

It's usually best when supporting any politician to spend your focus on the politician and her or his Sr. Advisors, and not those who merely comment on blogs.

And while you may dislike how Obama's staff have played politics, there is no reason to believe its been any different against Obama. From his patriotism, to 'plagerism', to "shame on you" and "skies opening up" mockery -- it's been a political campaign with all resultant ugliness.

Yes, I assume Democrats who believe in health care reform, economic reform, foriegn policy reform, civil rights and constitutional dignity so side with whoever the Democratic nominee is because both Obama and Clinton are so similar that it's borderline silly.

And yes, I assume those that don't either don't value those issues, or don't value those issues as much as they value their own hurt feelings from blog postings.

My boss, a labor leader, would rather 8 more years of Elaine Chao-style labor abuse, than vote for Obama, because she feels Clinton deserves the win more.

Fine for her. I'm disappointed, because I think the needs of the many outweigh the hurt feelings of someone who doesn't like electoral disappointment. I'm disappointed, because I consider the issues at stake to be bigger than the person tasked to fix them.

And if there has to be one person in office, I'd rather have someone there who shares my belief of a just America more than someone I voted for in a Primary.

I find the opposite view pretty depressing.


Fight the Smears!
by Lettuce on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 01:22:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Absolutely (2.00 / 1)

This former Kossack will not return to that DKos.

I didn't know some Clinton posters were banned, since I stopped trying on that site it hadn't happened yet.

When Markos made his little self-righteous statement 2 weeks ago, I believe it spelled the slow death of his site's chance of reaching mainstream credibility. Two years ago I though it was nearly there.

I wrote a diary asking for unity back before Iowa, and the backlash I received was f****ed up!

AND, it is not just like this on the blogs. The hate mongering of the newbies have emboldened many pundits and supporters, and brought a seedy mob rule to the political process.


by Al Depansu on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:39:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NOW you want to be friends? (2.00 / 1)

First of all, the fact that Obama supporters have been hateful towards HRC supporters on other sites (or even here) does not give license for HRC supports to be hateful towards BHO and his supporters.

Of course, Bob doesn't object to that.

No, in this diary, Bob didn't object to that. But it, frankly, Bob doesn't get held responsable for what every other BHO supporter everywhere says and does.

This kind of attack is ad hominem and serves only to distract from the point. Here at MyDD, things are bad. If you agree that things are bad--regardless of what happens elsewhere--then we should be working together to try to stop this. Not calling out the diarist for not repudiating every stupid and hateful thing said by other BHO supporters.

I won't vote for someone who behaves and tolerates behavior such as Obama does and has.

Lastly, there may be an argument that BHO is responsable for what his surrogates say, but I reject the idea the BHO should be held responsable for what people on a smattering of hyper-partisan and insular political blogs say. That is a stretch of logic.

Please don't let the hateful comments of posters on blogs dictate who you vote for.


"Don't let it end this way; tell them I said something." -the last words of Pancho Villa
by shef on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:54:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NOW you want to be friends? (none / 0)

"First of all, the fact that Obama supporters have been hateful towards HRC supporters on other sites (or even here) does not give license for HRC supports to be hateful towards BHO and his supporters."

So now you guys are backing hate licenses and only Obama supporters get them...lol

Good think we don't need a license from the DNC to vote in the general....But give Obama and Dean time they will figure something out.


by DTaylor on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 01:01:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NOW you want to be friends? (none / 0)

This doesn't make sense.

When I say "give license," I obviously didn't mean giving someone a literal license, I meant "bestows moral permission".

Then you take a misrepresentation of what I say and turn it into an attack on Obama and Dean regarding MI and FL (I think). So, you misinterpret what I say, then ignore the substance of my claim.

Unless this is snark or a April Fools' Day joke, in which case, well done.


"Don't let it end this way; tell them I said something." -the last words of Pancho Villa
by shef on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 01:15:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NOW you want to be friends? (2.00 / 2)

Can you possibly please see past the argument that this has to be "equal"?  Or that one side is worse then the other?  How does that make any sense at all.

You are either part of the problem or part of the solution.  We all have examples of things that we have read that are way above and beyond all rational discourse.  

To label all people that support Obama based on the actions of a few is at its heart the definition of racism.  Seriously, you cannot dismiss any whole group of people based on the actions of a few that are part of that group.

Whether you agree with Obama, or his policies etc, and whether you choose to vote for him and support him is one thing.  But to say that Obama has behaved "atrociously" because some of the people that support him have, makes no common sense.

I am not even from the US, and thus have no vote, and thus read everything openly from both sides, and there has been nothing anywhere that leads me to believe that Obama (or even Clinton) are anything less then good people.  To try to make then guilty by association for the words and actions of their supporters (probably which they have no idea of) is totally wrong.  They are both intelligent and rational people that can make their own decisions.  And that is what is needed at this time in the US.  Someone that can think and act like a normal human as president.  

Of course you have your vote and your choice to use it.  But to say you won't vote for someone because some asshole that supports that person said/did something stupid, makes no sense at all.  Your not voting for the asshole, your voting for the president of the United States.


by herenow on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 01:02:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NOW you want to be friends? (2.00 / 1)

I'm troll-rating your comment because it hurls an insult and makes no point.


by Mostly on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:05:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NOW you want to be friends? (2.00 / 0)

Oh and Hillaryites are not nasty?


by Pravin on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:24:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NOW you want to be friends? (2.00 / 1)

That is not the point.  The point is are you?  

Who cares what the "Hillaryites" or the "Obamawhatevers" are.  That's like the argument based on the premise that "some people said..." therefor it must be true and must apply to all people.

It makes no logical sense.  Seriously, just because you have read some nasty things written by someone that happens to support Obama, do you really believe all people would say the same thing?  Or Obama even would say the same?  Or if it was Hillary??  

Come on here.  Its time to get past this and on to something else.  Who cares who's supporters are "nasty" or not.  Who are you voting for...  Some moron that said some nasty stupid things or the next president of the United States?

Support the positive, ignore the negative and move on.


by herenow on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 01:10:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NOW you want to be friends? (2.00 / 1)

Then troll rate the emotional, personal, negative, bs attacks.  But even by labeling "Obamaphiles" as hateful people etc, only serves to create an equal and opposite reaction.  (as in it does nothing but makes things worse)

If there is something I dont agree with, or a group of people that believes something I dont, I do not dismiss the group and give them a negative label.  All I can do is present my point of view.  

Also, supporters from both sides have devolved the conversation.  It takes two to fight.  

What I am just trying to say here and in other posts, is that emotions are running high, so you can expect some things being said that are not rational, but it does not mean you have to respond that way.  Also you will find that if you respond positively or rationally to an emotional argument, the person that started it will either continue to argue with themselves (if all they wanted to do was fight) or they will step out of it and get over it etc.  The ones that are just arguing with themselves are either delusional or have other reasons for their actions (like are just trying to start/continue a fight, and thus are a troll)

It doesnt take much to figure out which is which, providing of couse that you are interested in more then just continuing the fight yourself.


by herenow on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:31:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NOW you want to be friends? (2.00 / 1)

If someone has said hateful things to you, it says something about that person, not something about everyone who supports the same candidate as that person.  

I'm an Obama supporter and I don't say awful things about other Democrats, I don't threaten to vote Republican or stay home in November.  Am I hateful?

Some Obama supporters are mean and nasty does not equal all Obama supporters are mean and nasty.  Same is true for Hillary supporters.

Not all mean and nasty Diarists and commenters are even Democrats -- some are freeper trolls trying to stir up trouble.  Let's don't let them succeed.


That One is the Right One for 2008.
by GFORD on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:49:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (2.00 / 0)

The fact that this post would get troll-rated is a clear indication of just how f*cked up this place can get.


Nos causidicus Obama , ergo nos non suadeo
by rb608 on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:00:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (none / 0)

There's some serious troll-rating abuse going on here. What could possibly be trollish about the idea of uniting around the Democratic nominee?


No Way. No How. No McCain-Palin!
by Texas Gray Wolf on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 01:35:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (none / 0)

Indeed.  TR abuse has been RAMPANT lately.


I'm as strong as a bull moose, and you can use me to the limit. - Teddy Roosevelt
by fogiv on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 02:21:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (1.75 / 4)

And no one is forcing you to read his diary either.


by steampunkx on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:01:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (2.00 / 2)

Oh, I'm sure he doesn't mind the hits and comments.


by creeper1014 on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:50:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (2.00 / 5)

You've been around long enough to recognize the conversation here has plummeted... there is no need to insult each other, call are leading candidates Bitch or George Wallace - it is taking a primary, where the candidates are fairly close on the issues - way to seriously.


Bring Back MyDD - Just say No to Rec'ing Candidate Diaries.
by CardBoard on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:07:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

If you call Hillary (2.00 / 8)

the b-word on Daily Kos, it will get zapped so fast your head will spin.

Which is as it should be.


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:17:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You can use it occasionally here (none / 0)


Bring Back MyDD - Just say No to Rec'ing Candidate Diaries.
by CardBoard on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:18:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Must be a new, improved DKos... (2.00 / 6)

...not the one I left two months ago!


by Shazone on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:35:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Or maybe (1.75 / 4)

you just weren't paying attention :-)


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:58:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Must be a new, improved DKos... (2.00 / 1)

Yup, you wouldn't believe the comments I read there.
by Al Depansu on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:42:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If you call Hillary (1.75 / 4)

LOL nice little myth there I saw someone who linked all sorts of stupid deadly insults about her on dkos and the answering posts?

they were ALL TR for autoban, by your little group of purity drones.


by zerosumgame on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:38:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Uh hum. (2.00 / 3)

I've been a Kos TU for two years, you can assume I know what I'm talking about.

And "purity drones", given that you know nothing of me and have been stalking me around this site zeroing my posts, now finally gets a zero.

Have a nice day.


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:46:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If you call Hillary (2.00 / 3)

hide the truth all you want I saw that post of all the times "clintonistas" and 'bitch' and 'hitllery' and others just like that were used and un-hidden on dkos and how the ONLY replies were to try to autoban that guy for showing what liars and haters you are. FYI I will continue to re-post this no matter how many times you cowards try to hide it.


by zerosumgame on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:58:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Haha. (2.00 / 1)

You brave truth-teller, you.

Actually, you got zapped because for being insulting. Might want to work on your social skills and tone, champ.


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:28:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Haha. (2.00 / 0)

If folks got zapped for being insulting, you'd have been gone there long ago.  Same for your mentor BJ, and Geek and some of the other over the top 'writers' who spent time on the orange sewer site simply to poke Clinton supporters in the eye.


Hell's bells, even the GOP didn't have to crucify Eisenhower's record in order to make Reagan their 'saint'. We can have two great ones, you know?
by emsprater on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:38:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Of course. (2.00 / 2)

I suppose that's why, as an Edwards supporter, I wrote a diary, for example, on why people shouldn't be dissuaded from voting for either Clinton or Obama due to conerns about race and gender being a factor.

That's just me, being ever-insulting and divisive.

Coincidentally, to put my Edwards hat on for a second: all of you supporters of two different liberal Senators do realize how downright bizarre your squabbling looks to the people who originally had other favorites, right? It's not as if you can really see that much daylight between the two of them on, like, policy and stuff.

Alright, carry on. There's a deathmatch, and some other liberal Senator might get in the way of your preferred liberal Senator. Make your voice heard, emsprater.


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:46:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (1.66 / 3)

The MyDD Clinton smear machine is also in clear blatant violation of the terms of use of this site, yet they are allowed to get away with it unfettered.  It makes me sick.


NJ Hussein Independent
by NJIndependent on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:16:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (1.50 / 2)

I'm troll rating this comment because basically you are saying that if Bob does not agree with you he should just leave.  Not bother to explain why.  That's most of the problem with what is going on here.  Conversation is no longer about the issues, its devolved into personal attacks, etc.  

The fact is people, that either candidate will make a good president, and both sides should be trying to "sell" their candidates strengths, not insult the other's weakness's.  

I don't want to hear that "this is what other sites are doing" (as in the orange one).  Or that the other side is doing it, so we should be too... or some other bs argument to justify your negativity.  It seems that most posters on this site are just waiting for one wrong word by Obama or anyone remotely associated with him to jump on.

Get over it.  Honestly it amazes me that this conversation has gone on this long.  Just because you can preach to the choir here, doesnt mean you have to continue it.


by herenow on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:47:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

bob is BMOC at dkos already (1.75 / 4)

he is always on the rec list and several times on the front page with all his 'Hillary is the DEVIL' diaries. his ego gets lots of stroking there, he has no need to re-post his drivel here.


by zerosumgame on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:00:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: bob is BMOC at dkos already (2.00 / 1)

This is not drivel, and I cannot say whether I agree with everything he has or has not written because at this moment I am reading and responding to this.  This is very important (moreso then Hillary or Obama as far as I am concerned)  I dont care which candidate he supports, nor do I care whether you agree with his choice.

He has brought up an issue that is plaguing most forums that I read.  Moreso every day it seems.  Even you response right now is bs.  Rather then discuss what is said you are attacking who said it.  Honestly, how does that make any sense?

It doesnt.  Post some valid reasons for you dismissing this as "drivel" other then assuming that his only motive to open up a discussion here is to stroke his ego or some other such bs.


by herenow on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:39:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: bob is BMOC at dkos already (2.00 / 1)

He has no moral ground on which to 'bring up ' this issue because he is one of the founders of the tactics he now decries.

Unless he recants and repents, he can't possibly have any credibility on this issue.

Ever.


Hell's bells, even the GOP didn't have to crucify Eisenhower's record in order to make Reagan their 'saint'. We can have two great ones, you know?
by emsprater on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:44:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: bob is BMOC at dkos already (2.00 / 1)

What's the moral highground Bob has lost? When he criticizes Susan Hu or Larry Johnson for using right-wing attack dog serial diaries? Hmmm... it seems like Bob's been consistant in his calls for sanity.


unapologetic Obama supporter
by dantes on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 01:47:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: bob is BMOC at dkos already (2.00 / 1)

I'm sorry, but I don't even know how to respond to this.  This is why most repubs on redstate don't believe in global warming because all the scientists are democrats, and thus they must be wrong.

Same argument here.  Because you havent agreed with (or even Bob has been part of the problem in the past) he has no "moral" right to address or discuss the issue.  Even though by discussing the issue is in itself recognizing that there is a problem and thus is an attempt to fix it.

But because Bob brings it up, and you have no respect for anything Bob says, then there must be no problem, because Bob said there was.

Hmm.  So explain to me why Bob needs to satisfy your requirements for appologies etc. before we can rationally talk about the problem?  Rather then just talk about it... (as we are now?)  Can't we just skip that step?  Although maybe appologies might make everyone feel warm and fuzzy, what do they have to do with addressing what is happening... here & now.


by herenow on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 02:08:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: bob is BMOC at dkos already (none / 0)

No, I have no respect for what he says.

You can't understand it, because either you have not been subjected to his incessant anti Hillary crap or you have chosen to ignore it because it suits your predisposed bias as well.

Simply because the person who has egged your house each and every day and night for years suddenly shows up on your doorstep to smash an egg in your face and then proclaim that you are at fault because your dog occasionally strays into his yard and you should both now sing in 'harmony' while he continues to egg your house every night doesn't mean you should fall in line and turn the other cheek.

His goal here was not 'reconciliation' or even 'moderation', it was, as his goal usually is, an internet based throwing of feces at folks he doesn't like in order to gain the attention he so desperately needs.


Hell's bells, even the GOP didn't have to crucify Eisenhower's record in order to make Reagan their 'saint'. We can have two great ones, you know?
by emsprater on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 02:19:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

GOP Trolls Recruiting For McCain (2.00 / 1)

I think that's all it is


by bernardpliers on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:19:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (2.00 / 5)

Thank you for this post.  I hope that once this nomination gets settled, everyone can rally around the Democratic candidate in order to bring about progressive change.  To sit this one out or vote for McCain is to actively support the continuation of a Republican establishment that is anathema to our and America's interests.


Oregon Hussein KCG - Hussein means: "good; small handsome one" in Arabic.
by oregonkcg on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:00:01 AM EST

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (1.83 / 12)

If only you mean when you all come to this site.  You are the perfect example you talk about.  As example by your diary opening comments.  

Thanks for continuing the examples of this cult mentality that ignore reality and just spew this mindless hate the Obama supporters have become known for.


by LindaSFNM on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:02:49 AM EST

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (2.00 / 2)

One point of the post I think is that there is "hate" on both sides.  I think we need to tone down the anti-democrat, anti-intellectual instincts of some of the folks here.  We'll need to unify soon, might as well be sooner rather than later.


Oregon Hussein KCG - Hussein means: "good; small handsome one" in Arabic.
by oregonkcg on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:42:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Unify? (2.00 / 2)

That implies settling on one candidate.  It's not time for that yet.  What we DO need is a little more respect for each other.  Less sarcasm, less profanity, less name-calling and more civil discussion is what we need even more than unity.

If we treat each other respectfully, the unity will not be a problem in the end.


by creeper1014 on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:56:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (2.00 / 13)

Bob, your hands are not clean.


by Liberty on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:04:17 AM EST

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (1.66 / 3)

That is not the point.  

This is not a competition for who has the "cleanest hands".  Obviously some things are said that maybe shouldnt be when emotions are running high.  That should be understood and accepted as normal.  

Anyone that plays this game of "gotcha" finger pointing is really just a child.  Seriously, grow up and take responsibility for your own actions, not try to blame others to try to justify your own.

Who wins in this game of he-said, she-said?  I'll give u a hint, it's not Hillery and not Obama...


by herenow on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:37:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (2.00 / 4)

When he only points his fingers in one direction and ignores his own hate speech (IN THIS VERY DIARY) then yeah that is the point.


by zerosumgame on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:40:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (2.00 / 2)

Doesn't Israel and Palestine give a great example of how finger pointing games don't serve any productive ends?  We'll need to unify soon, might as well be sooner rather than later.  Let's all try to take the high road at some point soon.  Please.


Oregon Hussein KCG - Hussein means: "good; small handsome one" in Arabic.
by oregonkcg on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:43:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (1.66 / 3)

sadly the bob's and the mbnys's and the bawbie's will do their level best to devide and destroy the party


by zerosumgame on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:53:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (1.66 / 3)

and that delusion is your reason to stalk us and TR every post we make?

nice.

but thanks for the call out.  it's nice to be recognized.

BTW.  I'm pretty sure Bob, MSNYC and myself have repeatedly states we will all vote for the democrat in the fall, regardless of who it is.  

It's a funny way to "devide(sic) and destroy the party".


by bawbie on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:04:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (none / 0)

just you dear, I have seen lots of your posts here and on dkos and you are simply a troll who likes to stir up shit and make people angry. so just as you have done so many many times on dkos where you think you are a big deal, I am TR'ing YOU for banning. enjoying it yet miss bully?


by zerosumgame on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:26:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (2.00 / 1)

thanks for calling me "dear", sweetie.  that's very kind of you.

I can guarantee you I don't think I'm a big deal, and that I'm not a troll.

And I haven't been banned yet, so I think I'll keep posting.  But I am enjoying it, Miss Stalker.


by bawbie on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:34:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (none / 0)

Any particular reason this post deserves a 'hide', KnowVox?  


by bawbie on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 02:34:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (none / 0)

Why the hell are you following people and trolling their every comment? You think you're a big boy? How big a boy are ya?


by zep93 on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:40:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Roy D Mercer? (none / 0)


by Quarterbackjoe on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 02:44:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Roy D Mercer? (none / 0)

I was hoping someone would get the joke, lol.


by zep93 on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 02:58:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Roy D Mercer? (none / 0)

So, how's Sharon Jean? Is she okay with Sgt Yorky's gender preference now?


by Quarterbackjoe on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 04:04:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (2.00 / 1)

zerosum, I too have been getting random zeros for you. do you care to explain why?


"Don't let it end this way; tell them I said something." -the last words of Pancho Villa
by shef on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 01:00:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (2.00 / 3)

My point is honesty. Bob's hands are dirty. I don't play games. I believe in the truth and taking responsibility for one's actions. Bob hasn't done so and I find it hypocritical on your part to instruct others who hands are clean to "grow up." Who is the child here?


by Liberty on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:58:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (2.00 / 1)

This is a great diary. I hope everyone here reads it. Maybe, it could save the site before it comes completely "off the rails". (Desperate times, desperate measures?)

The crap posted here lately is making my head spin. I think many of these "crazy" posts/diaries are just emotional venting, and just not derived from rational thinking.

It's also possible some of Hillary's supporters here might be republicans that crossed over and signed-up here to support her campaign. I could see them trying to destroy our party as a conciliation prize.

by power of truth on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:50:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hands Not Clean (2.00 / 1)

Exactly.  Hear now the pot blackguarding the kettle.


by creeper1014 on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:57:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Another unwarranted TR by Olo401. (2.00 / 0)


My name is Barney Gumble, and I'm an alcoholic. Lisa: This is a girl scouts meeting. Barney: Is it, or is it you girls can't admit that you have a problem?
by PJ Jefferson on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 01:02:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (1.60 / 5)

Why is there SO MUCH HATE on this site?  What is WRONG with you people?


by baghdadjoe on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:04:34 AM EST

Obama's Hate (1.75 / 4)

The Obama followers keep coming here and posting hateful diaries as this shows.

Is a shame.  Americans are thankfully waking up to this very devisive and hateful mentality and are rejecting it.

And they sit here with their heavy panting waiting for Bob to post his diary so they can all hit "recommend" to get the most ridiculous diaries up on the Recommend list. lol

...kind of like a gang.  They don't have much to contribute to the dialogue, but in mass they can beat up on an innocent person to shut them up.  They have only succeeded with the instant gratification, but long term, the folks don't bother showing up so they don't have similar opportunities.

President Hillary!


by LindaSFNM on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:24:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Clintons Hate (1.50 / 2)

So what Obama supporters are'nt allowed to comment here?  And "they can beat up innocent people"  give me a break. Hillary supporters are every bit as vile. The only didderence is they don't run and scream that everyone is treating them unfairly.


by lion king on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:34:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

This is a hateful diary? Sad. (1.50 / 2)


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:34:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Hate (2.00 / 1)

Look, not every diary that criticizes Hillary or Obama, or their supporters is "hateful".  Doesn't Israel and Palestine give a great example of how finger pointing games don't serve any productive ends?  Let's just agree to stop with the extremes.


Oregon Hussein KCG - Hussein means: "good; small handsome one" in Arabic.
by oregonkcg on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:44:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Hate (2.00 / 3)

Yeah, that was Marcia Pappas' line - she called the stream of endorsements for Obama during February a "gang bang".  The sexual imagery of that and your post are indicative of something... what?- I don't know but they're bizarre.

Can you imagine what it would be like in the general election?  You don't even have to imagine - just recall Fox News two months ago when Hillary Clinton was the presumptive nominee. It was all PMS jokes and "how do we beat the b!tch?" which John McCain called "an excellent question".

At any rate, I don't see how this diary is spewing hate.  And it's on point - particularly regarding the posts which appear to mostly cluster around noquarter.com - of people who refer to Barack Obama as some kind of black power or Nation of Islam candidate in disguise.  Those comments are beyond the pale.


by Mostly on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:46:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Actually... (1.75 / 4)

I guess it has never occurred to these writers and their recommenders that many Dems think Obama would make a better candidate versus McCain than Clinton and that many also believe he'd make a better president than Clinton.

...per Gallup, Democrats think Obama is stronger versus McCain by 59% to 30%.

I have a name for what's going on with some of the more vitriolic Obama-haters.


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:05:25 AM EST

Re: Actually... (2.00 / 2)

I think, though I'm not sure, that there is a direct link between dropping poll numbers for Clinton and Vile Post on this site.


Bring Back MyDD - Just say No to Rec'ing Candidate Diaries.
by CardBoard on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:08:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

It's Trolls Recuiting For McCain ? (2.00 / 1)

Trying to turn Hillary supporters to the GOP


by bernardpliers on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:23:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I've wondered about this, Bernard - (none / 0)

do you really believe this?  Paid trolls?  I don't think the readership is that large but the MSM is picking up on sites now.


by Xanthe on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 05:15:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

And diaries entitled (none / 0)

such as this one is good for business too.  And this diarist can be counted on to put many more up before the end of the race.  So there's that.


by Xanthe on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 05:16:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (2.00 / 7)

this coming from you who compared the Clinton campaign and its followers to KKK? You make me laugh. You and your hypocritical messiah and his maniacal followers have brought this division about and you complain now?


by tarheel74 on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:06:47 AM EST

Do you think Obama is a racist? (1.75 / 4)

Do you think the Democrats who are supporting him ae racists?

Do you think his candidacy is part of plot?


by Bob Johnson on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:08:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Do you think Obama is a racist? (1.80 / 5)

I think you are a hypocrite, that is much better than what you called all of us. Also I think that Obama is a race-baiter who has no meritorious policies on which he could have won this primary fairly.


by tarheel74 on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:13:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Right. All those white people (1.50 / 2)

voted for him because they hate white people. Smart!


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:17:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

lol - so Obama (2.00 / 1)

has no meritorious policies on which he could have won this primary fairly

Given the relatively small distance that separates Obama's and Clinton's policies on most issues, I guess that means you also think that she can't win "fairly" on "meritorious policies" either.


by Hprof on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:42:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: lol - so Obama (2.00 / 4)

Half of these people have "Clinton/Obama '08" as their signature while they incoherently bash him. It is confusing to say the least.

I say, pick one. Either Obama is the most vile candidate ever, or he's a great choice for Hillary's VP. Both cannot be true. Only on MyDD...

by power of truth on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:03:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: lol - so Obama (2.00 / 2)

go and read Paul Krugman's analysis.


by tarheel74 on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:16:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (2.00 / 1)

I'm sure this will improve things.  The old argument: "sure, there's a problem, but I didnt start it, so why should I do anything about it"

That helps.  Whenever something goes wrong in life, is this how you deal with the problem too?  Or is this just how you tell others (like on this site) to deal with it.  

Seriously, you have a choice.  Just like you have a vote.  You can continue this argument with all those that will engage in it, or in the end, with yourself... or you can step out of the loop, get over it, and get on with it.  


by herenow on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 01:29:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Bob, you should do what I did at Daily Kos. (2.00 / 5)

Just stop visiting the site, because you don't like it.  

In fact, given that you do like Daily Kos, I don't understand why you leave there to come here at all.

Don't get me wrong.  This is not a "don't let the door hit you" comment.  I'm not asking you to leave.  

I'm asking you why you're here in the first place...

other than the fact that you seem to relish being the underdog here....

and if you relish being the underdog here...

WTF are you complaining about?

Signed,

Confused in Michigan


My name is Barney Gumble, and I'm an alcoholic. Lisa: This is a girl scouts meeting. Barney: Is it, or is it you girls can't admit that you have a problem?
by PJ Jefferson on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:09:22 AM EST

Re: Bob, you should do what I did at Daily Kos. (2.00 / 2)

There are almost NO HRC supporters left on Kos for Bob to pester. He had to run on over here to get his kicks in.
Kind of funny if you think about it. He can't couldn't stand us at the orange place but he can't keep himself from running over here to find us all.

by J Rae on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:10:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I Used To Lurk Wingnut Sites (none / 0)

But this just does as well


by bernardpliers on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:24:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Time to ban Olo401 nt (2.00 / 2)


My name is Barney Gumble, and I'm an alcoholic. Lisa: This is a girl scouts meeting. Barney: Is it, or is it you girls can't admit that you have a problem?
by PJ Jefferson on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:43:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Time to ban Olo401 nt (2.00 / 0)

LOL first time I have been troll rated.
I wonder if it was for telling the truth or just because I am an HRC supporter.
by J Rae on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 01:03:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

There's a roving gang of Obama supporters, (2.00 / 0)

presumably from Daily Kos but possibly other places, that give each other emergency action alerts to run around and troll-rate comments for no reason other than it would tend to help their favorite candidates' opponent get elected.

They are like James Dobson's Focus on the Family.  They organize a small group of loudmouths to take over the conversation and stifle dissent.  

They are trying to "own" discourse on the internet in favor of Obama.  

Because the admins at Daily Kos are in the Obama camp, and actually encouraged this, the Obama camp has completely taken over Daily Kos.  

Hopefully that won't happen here, but I can always leave here, too, if necessary.  


My name is Barney Gumble, and I'm an alcoholic. Lisa: This is a girl scouts meeting. Barney: Is it, or is it you girls can't admit that you have a problem?
by PJ Jefferson on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 01:29:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Boys Love to Bully and This is No Exception (2.00 / 1)

It is just misogyny - all of this is.  All the keyboard warriors just got to have a man.  And they can't be happy loving their man.  They have to bully us girls who won't join in.

Oh well....I am tired of being threatened with my reproductive rights.  There are lots of ways to deal with outlawed abortions - Some things are more important...like doing what I know is right.

So this Democrat who has voted that way since 1980 will sit this one out if Obama is the one.  And lots of my kind will too.  

Reality bites indeed.


by emmasaint on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 01:25:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Boys Love to Bully and This is No Exception (none / 0)

Have you ever researched abortions before Roe v. Wade? I have, and it was an ugly, ugly time. Lots of death from infection. Lots of families watching their mothers die in front of them because she had an illegal abortion. There are some people who cannot afford the same abortions that rich kids will  inevitably still be able to get. It was a dangerous time for women, and as a woman who is not ready, financially or emotionally, to start a family (nor do I have lots of money), it's pretty scary to me.

I am an Obama supporter who came to this site and stayed because I was convinced by a lot of logical Hillary supporters that dKos was filled with hate. So I don't go there and I only post here. So when I see a lot of hate here, it is unsettling. I don't know what's wrong with trying to clean up this site because the other is a total lost cause.

I am a girl, I've been raised with pretty feminist ideals by a mother who also supports Obama. And my father is certainly not a misogynist, neither are my male friends who support Obama. When I bring up Roe v. Wade, I am not trying to threaten anyone. When I bring up 100 more years of Iraq (a war several of my close childhood friends are fighting in right now) I am not trying to threaten anyone. Reproductive rights and getting out of Iraq are what's "right" to me. Because these things are really up for grabs this election, more than others. If Hillary wins, although she has done a lot I disagree with, my integrity will be intact knowing that I voted simply for these two very important reasons.


by cecilybecily on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 02:45:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bob, you should do what I did at Daily Kos. (2.00 / 1)

I don't speak for Bob, but here's why I stay.

I believe joined dKos and MyDD somewhere around the election of 2004. MyDD was great because it focused on the electoral process, lesser-known races and interesting wonkish things that might've slipped through the cracks at dKos. It was also a lot smaller and more personal than dKos, so you didn't feel like your comment was utterly lost among 300 others on a given thread.

In short, there were reasons we really enjoyed MyDD, and we don't want to simply abandon it because it's fallen on hard times. We want it to get better again.

Unlike dKos, it's probably the same 20 people who post 75% of the comments around here. It's mostly the same names talking to (or arguing with) each other. A plea for civility here can have more effect. Daily Kos might devolve into a rabble now and again, but we can all set our own course here...we can change things here if we want to.

A lot of people at MyDD felt the best way they could demonstrate their discontent with dKos was to leave for good. That's fine and I respect your decision. But we shouldn't be criticized for not following that route.


by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:32:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I don't get the admins and Troll-Rating here. (2.00 / 2)

I was actually warned to be careful with my troll-rates recently, when I did NOTHING to abuse the TR system.

In the past few days since I was IMPROPERLY warned about the troll-rate system, I've seen literally hundreds of instances of REAL abuse of the system, including Olo401 in response to my comment here.

Admins: I hope you start sticking to the mass number of real instances of TR abuse around here, and start banning people like Olo401.


My name is Barney Gumble, and I'm an alcoholic. Lisa: This is a girl scouts meeting. Barney: Is it, or is it you girls can't admit that you have a problem?
by PJ Jefferson on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:40:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (2.00 / 4)

I suspect in the short run it will get worse.  There was a slight effort made by the managers of the site to correct some of this, and there was about 2 days of moderation, but as time goes on and as Senator Clinton's position gets more difficult, it will distill itself into a more toxic brew.  Some of the Obama supporters will throw up their hands and leave, allowing the mix to become even more toxic.  Some of the more moderate Clinton supporters will leave, as they decide to support the party's nominee, and what will be left are the toxic spewers, those whose mission is to disparage Barack Obama.  

It would be shocking if it weren't so predictable.


by StrangeAnomaly on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:10:16 AM EST

Cultlike (2.00 / 2)

One might say.


by ReillyDiefenbach on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:39:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (2.00 / 6)

When Obama's the subject of critical analysis and opinion, it's a given that his supporter will cry "Why do you hate?" But, when they're putting Clinton through the meat grinder, it all about love.
by zenful6219 on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:10:46 AM EST

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (2.00 / 1)

I guess that's similar to:

"We are only hating Obama now because the Republicans will do it later anyway"


unapologetic Obama supporter
by dantes on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:30:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (2.00 / 2)

Doesn't Israel and Palestine give a great example of how finger pointing games don't serve any productive ends?  We'll need to unify soon, might as well be sooner rather than later.  Let's all try to take the high road at some point soon.  Please.


Oregon Hussein KCG - Hussein means: "good; small handsome one" in Arabic.
by oregonkcg on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:45:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

This diary might have some credibility (2.00 / 11)

If the diarist himself ever bothered to condemn the mindless Clinton hate over a DKos.


by Mayor McCheese on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:11:07 AM EST

Re: This diary might have some credibility (2.00 / 1)

That comment just isn't helpful.  You can deal with an issue without addressing every single corrolary.  For one, I agree that DailyKos should be more even handed.  Now what about what the poster has to say?


Oregon Hussein KCG - Hussein means: "good; small handsome one" in Arabic.
by oregonkcg on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:46:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This diary might have some credibility (2.00 / 2)

It isn't helpful because it doesn't fit in with your beliefs. Too bad. This poster has zero credibility lecturing others on civil and rational behavior.


by Mayor McCheese on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:05:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

rb406 and 0lo401 explain your TR's. (2.00 / 2)


My name is Barney Gumble, and I'm an alcoholic. Lisa: This is a girl scouts meeting. Barney: Is it, or is it you girls can't admit that you have a problem?
by PJ Jefferson on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:45:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Considering your lack of basic (2.00 / 10)

courtesy to pro-Clinton posters on DailyKos, I find it ironic that you would come here to whine.

Most of the pro-Clinton posters have been chased out of DailyKos.  Isn't that enough for you?

I don't "hate" Obama and have always said I will vote for the nominee.  I will do this because I am a Democrat who cares about this country, and certainly not because of any cajoling by Obama supporters.


by Radiowalla on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:13:25 AM EST

why did olo401 TR this comment? (2.00 / 1)


My name is Barney Gumble, and I'm an alcoholic. Lisa: This is a girl scouts meeting. Barney: Is it, or is it you girls can't admit that you have a problem?
by PJ Jefferson on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:55:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Dude. Did you see the post that (2.00 / 3)

has since been deleted (!) that shows exactly what you're seeing here. Using IAT tests, they've shown that people who exhibit strong implicit racial bias will make up negative things, particularly African-Americans (not a shock in a country that has spent hundreds of years vilifying one group so that the majority population would be more comfortable with being a party to the oppression of that group, including whole stories about aggressive and violent acts that didn't happen because it fits their world view. Things that challenge their world view are deleted from memory. Scary stuff but pretty common.

I'm sure this comment will get troll rated into oblivion but that simply proves my point.


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:16:00 AM EST

Re: Dude. Did you see the post that (none / 0)

*about AA's


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:40:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

That stuff is true. But it happens with (2.00 / 1)

everyone and it definitely happens to women.   Man, just look at the hip-hop lyrics!  Look at the vilification of young women by major media outlets like CNN (young women who aren't doing anything more than young men do all the time).  So ... while you're right about people projecting all the bad stuff onto someone "lesser" than them, just don't forget it happens to the ladies too.


Reasonable people can disagree.
by mnicholson0220 on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:49:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

No one said that IAT tests (none / 0)

don't show bias against women. However, the studies show a level of internal bias towards African-Americans that isn't replicated with other groups.


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 04:35:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Your second phrase says all we (2.00 / 6)

need to know:

"As Clinton's window continues to narrow"

Typical Obama supporter.    Asserting something that is not true, as evidence that it is true.

Clinton's window is NOT narrowing, it is being SLAMMED SHUT by party elite who have who "assumed the position" out of fear that if Obama has this nomination  "stolen" from him, something bad will happen.    I've heard the dark hints enough times issuing from the CNN punditry.   Something bad, something bad, something bad.  Fear mongering?   Um, yes.  

They're falling like dominoes, and it's not because of the wonderfulness of the candidate.   That should be plain to everyone, even the most devoted of Obama supporters.  No, something else is afoot.   And it ain't pretty.  


Reasonable people can disagree.
by mnicholson0220 on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:16:20 AM EST

Bad like the Democrats (2.00 / 2)

will lose not only in 2008 but for years to come. Or did you think they meant that us black folks would kill you white folks?


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:17:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

A little of both. Actually three (2.00 / 3)

specific reasons have been given:    a) alienation and disillusionment of a generation of young people.   b) such an affront to the African-American community that they would bolt the party;   c) ripping apart and destroying the democratic party.

These threats, as they stand, are sufficient to suspect "fear mongering" as a deliberate strategy on Obama's part.  But you're right, there's more.    

To anyone old enough to remember the 60s, the disastrous Chicago convention in 1968, and the burning of Watts and Detroit, it's the proverbial "dog whistle" (Yes, that phrase that Obama supporters love to throw around so loosely).  

The spectre of riots in front of TV cameras in Denver is sufficient give any party elder a case of nausea.   And the spectre of riots in downtown Atlanta might well do the same for a CNN executive.

So, yes, you're dead on.   Do I think these things might happen?  My own prediction is that the overly-testosteronated daily kos contingent would be very likely to cause an unpleasant scene in Denver.   African-Americans?  I think less likely because African-Americans are savvy, plenty have supported and will continue to support the Clintons, they understand there are other candidates (possibly better) in the pipeline, and understandably would not want to risk their current standing and respect in public life.  

But, you see (as so many Obama supporters who use the term seem to understand) the "dog whistle" still works quite well, even when the actual likelihoods are low.


Reasonable people can disagree.
by mnicholson0220 on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:43:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A little of both. Actually three (none / 0)

If I called this place "overly estrogenated", which it objectively is, you'd probably call me a sexist and I might even get banned entirely. But you type such garbage about someone else and have the stones to call yourself reasonable.


by amiches on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 01:15:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Overly-estrogenated is nothing (2.00 / 1)

compared to what has already been said about Hillary and her supporters.  So, fire away.  Who cares?


Reasonable people can disagree.
by mnicholson0220 on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 01:29:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Those seem to be legitimate (none / 0)

not fear-mongering. Fear-mongering invade or we'll get nuked (highly unlikely), or give immunity to the telecoms or we'll all dieeeee (highly unlikely).

African-Americans will certainly bolt in large enough numbers (I'm one of them) that it will harm the party, should Obama be ahead in pledged delegates and the supers go the other way absent some serious issue arising that makes him unelectable (a loud preacher doesn't cut it).

Young folks, I don't see why they'd come out if the supers decided in the opposite direction.

As far as riots, that's cowardice talking as no one who has any sense has suggested any such thing. But to some, we're a very scary group of people.

When it comes to dogwhistles, I live through them all of the time so I'm quite familiar with them. Whites saying there will be riots  - or implying that we might riot - is just another racist dogwhistle to scare other whites about us black folks.


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 05:09:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Objectively (2.00 / 5)

her window is narrowing. There have been 44 contests already, with ten left to go. That's narrowing. The last vote in on June 3d - that's narrowing, too.

As to the party elites, when this thing started, they were in the bag for Clinton. That has shifted to largely neutral due to Obama's success. If the establishment wanted to shut this down, they could. That they haven't says a lot about actual realities.

As to elites being "pressured", please. We couldn't get Pelosi to pursue impeachment despite overwhelming intra-party support can Cindy freaking Sheehan running against her. The evidence that "pressure" works on the brass is really slim, which leads me to believe this is yet another Clintonist explanatory fantasy.


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:25:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

It's called winning primaries (1.00 / 1)

Try it sometime.


by ReillyDiefenbach on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:41:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Not troll worthy at all, Soitgoes (none / 0)

ratings abuse.


by ReillyDiefenbach on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 01:03:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Shilo and Olo, why the TR on this comment? (none / 0)


My name is Barney Gumble, and I'm an alcoholic. Lisa: This is a girl scouts meeting. Barney: Is it, or is it you girls can't admit that you have a problem?
by PJ Jefferson on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:56:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Your second phrase says all we (none / 0)

If Clinton wins because she has the majority of the pledged delegates, I will be satisfied with her win. Even if she wins the popular vote and the superdelegates flock to her, I am pretty sure I'll be satisfied. But coming from a pretty fair-minded Obama supporter if superdelegates elect Clinton without the pledged delegate lead or the popular vote lead, it will seem stolen. And people will be upset with the Democrats that their vote didn't count. We already have a lot of work to do in gaining back the trust of Florida and Michigan dems. I think it would be almost impossible if that happened to the entire country.


by cecilybecily on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 02:56:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

you misplaced your fire: try dailykos (2.00 / 4)


Landslide of lies
by engels on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:17:15 AM EST

rb608, why was this tr worthy? (none / 0)


My name is Barney Gumble, and I'm an alcoholic. Lisa: This is a girl scouts meeting. Barney: Is it, or is it you girls can't admit that you have a problem?
by PJ Jefferson on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:58:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (2.00 / 2)

lets add you diary to the list!

as well - i think this one replaced [BREAKING] PA Polls Tighten! on the rec list ;)


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that word I reach for my feather Boa!" -- Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:17:24 AM EST

This diary is going to vanish into the ether (2.00 / 4)

soon as Jerome sees it.

Just the way it is around here nowadays. Classic case of shortsightedness from Jerome, letting a bunch of Obama haters take over his site driving others away in the process, drive up hits temporarily, Obama wins the nomination and then nobody comes to the site as the Obama haters sulk and vanish themselves.  


by johnnyappleseed on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:20:31 AM EST

There was a diary, based purely on (2.00 / 3)

scientific research that was examining racial attitudes and issues in America that was deleted. Nothing in it called anyone racist. In fact the research specifically said people were not racist! But it was deleted anyway. Now MyDD doesn't like science I guess. That sounds so familiar.


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:31:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

getting ready to apologize? (none / 0)

Now that this diary is sitting on the rec list and Jerome has not deleted it?


Join the Iowa progressive community at Bleeding Heartland.
by desmoinesdem on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:47:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (2.00 / 6)

I have to agree that the tone has gotten out of hand.  I think it has been down-right vicious on the blogs, although MyDD has been a fabulous exception.  No doubt, though, this has come from both sides.

As a Clinton supporter, I've found any argument I've made for her candidacy met with sheer hostility and my being called stupid, a troll, and compared to Tonya Harding.  One person compared me to the Nazis, simply because I was arguing MI and FL should be seated.  And I have fired back with equal venum (sp?).  So, I certainy have lost myself at times through this campaign as well, I will be the first to admit.

I'm taking a step back and making a point to get some perspective.  I call on others, on both sides, to do the same.  I think its wonderful so many people care so much.  Its always important to hold tight to principals and logic and not let emotion strangle them.  

Hillary Clinton is not the anti-Christ and Obama would make an absolutely fabulous president.  Our country and party would be proud to have either one of them represent us to the world and in history.

My moment of realization came when I was reading over McCain's recent "major economic speech", in which he basically told the American people, who are struggling with a sinking economy already in recession, that they are on they own.  He's not going to help the big guy or the little guy.  The first thing that came to my mind was more Katrina Government.  This sorry, walking corpse is on the wrong side of every major concern of this country.  I think if the public knows Obama or Clinton will act to help them in a time of need, they won't give two sh*ts whether she was dodging sniper fire or having tea or what Obama's preacher said.  

And if the public does make the wrong choice, they will get what they deserve: bad government.  But, that won't happen.  You Are On Your Own is perhaps the worst campaign pitch of all time.

In other words, we Democrats have absolutely nothing to fear.  This extended primary will only make sure we have ground games in place for the general election.  I relish the take down of John Katrina-10,000-years-in-Iraq McCain.  


by MKyleM on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:23:10 AM EST

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (2.00 / 3)

As an Obama supporter, it's not simply advocating Hillary that is what is wrong with this place, it is the constant barrage of GOP-style character assassination hit pieces from shameless trolls like Freeperversal and TexasDarlin and linfar and the endless string of posters proclaiming their support of John McW in the case that their candidate loses that are in blatant violation of the terms of use of this site.  The moderators hypocrisy in actually allowing ad-hominem attacks on the presumptive Democratic nominee and proclamations of support for the Republican Presidential candidate is really disheartening.

Advocate Hillary all you want.  I may not agree vis-a-vis Obama, but in the end, she is definitely miles better for the country than Mr. "100 Years Of Iraq" and "I Don't Know Much About Economics".


NJ Hussein Independent
by NJIndependent on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:32:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (2.00 / 0)

Any Clinton supporter advocating for McCain is guilty of the letting go of logic and principals that I was talking about above.  Its just plain stupid.  I don't know anyway to be nice about that.

But arguments about electability shouldn't be confused with advocating for McCain.  I'm not saying that is what you are doing here because you certainly have a point about many Clinton supporters threatening to bolt if they don't get their way.  However, I know for a fact that many Obama supporters have gotten it wrong here.

To say McCain has strong national security cred and Obama doesn't isn't suggesting that McCain would make a better president.  My only concern all along has been about winning the election in November.  I was convinced Wright would destroy Obama and I made that argument repeatedly.  I never believed for a second, though, that Obama was unpatriotic or shared Wrights views or that it said anything about Obama at all.  Politics is largely the art of persuasion, so my concern was that the GOP would persuade the public that he was in fact unpatriotic and weak on national security, etc, which is a particular art they have absolutely mastered.  I never thought for a second McCain would make a better president or indicated that I woudln't vote for Obama if he were the nominee.


by MKyleM on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:11:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (2.00 / 1)

As an Obama supporter, I agree with everything you said.  Everyone on both sides needs to take a deep breath or two.  After that, if you still can't see that either candidate would be light-years better than McCain and worthy of strong support in the general, then you should take another breath.  Repeat until you see the light!


by ankylosaurus on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:39:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Your post would be reasonable... (2.00 / 1)

Except your facts are wrong. I was the one that made the point that 'every vote must be counted' without rules was a false form of democracy. I also made the point that they had plebiscites in the Third Reich and Soviet Russia with turn outs of 90% (for one policy or candidate). MI is not in dissimiliar position

So I was not calling you a Nazi, and I truly don't know why you were looking for an insult where none was intended. It's like the constant refrain I hear... "So you're calling me a racist." When that is the last thing on my mind, and I just think someone is wrong.

Skins are thin I know. Perhaps I would feel that way if my candidate was losing. But no-one will learn anything if facts are distorted this way


Moose Juice; debate without hate
by brit on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:51:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (none / 0)

Kudos.


by interestedbystander on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 01:39:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (2.00 / 4)

This is a coup in the making, and like many coups, all sorts of shadowy figures are involved. Like Rezko, or Wright, or Meeks, or Odinga, or Ayers, or Farrakhan...
This is a line I hadn't read because I decided to ignore that particular diary.  But seeing it now I can't help but to be somewhat skeptical of Universal's claim she only "accidentally" linked to that White Supremacist site VDARE the other day.  This is basically the line they've (and Steve Sailer in particular) been touting for going on a year now.  

I guess I'm not really all that surprised to see this meme making it's way into MyDD diaries now.   NoQuarter has long been something of a pipeline into the sort of 'respectable' White supremacist movement through their posting of works by James Fulford, Sailer, and Brimelow attacking Obama... but watching MyDD start down this path as well is certainly disturbing.  Not surprising though.


by Whash on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:25:45 AM EST

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (1.50 / 4)

Nothing should surprise you from Freeperversal at this point.


NJ Hussein Independent
by NJIndependent on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:34:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (2.00 / 2)

I'm not surprised by her, I'm surprised this stuff is being allowed here.  

I mean, it may not be guys in hoods and swastikas and such, these are 'respectable' racists, but some of these websites getting linked to are very well known (check with the Southern Poverty Law Center) White supremacist sites.

I would think that more of the people using MyDD (nevermind the moderators) would recognize them.  There have been numerous stories about these folks here and throughout the rest of the progressive blogs about them over the last several years, particularly in regards to the immigration debate.  

I mean, they were White supremacist sites a few years ago when they said Katrina exposed Blacks as genetically and culturally inferior to Whites, and now these same people's research into Obama's supposed 'Black radical' ties and 'afro-centric' church are being cited by progressives?

I just don't get it...


by Whash on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:46:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (2.00 / 4)

I will post here part of what I posted on another diary. To whit, I have a brother who is being sent back for a second tour in Iraq.  He is in his late forties.  He has a bad shoulder and four kids and a wife who can barely function without him.  So we are going to go through another year of hell and worry.  And as far as I am concerned, McCain is out to kill my brother and won't be satisfied till he is sent back in a transfer tube under the cover of night.

And those who cannot stop themselves from sowing contention and division in the Democratic party and so destroy it, I will consider to be no better than jackels feeding at my brother's corpse, because the Democratic party represents my only hope for my brother's life.

I think that Clinton has done damage with her embrace of the lie that Rev. Wright and Obama by extention are racists but I will vote for her if she gets the nomination.


by oldbattleaxe on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:25:55 AM EST

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (2.00 / 6)

The use of race baiting in any campaign should be of great concern to people who call themselves liberal or progressive. If you don't want such things discussed, perhaps you are in the wrong party.

Many Obama supporters are young, many have never voted before (and often weirdly assume that none of their older, fellow Democrats have ever supported African American politicians in the past), few have much first hand experience with racial issues and almost none have ever been activist on those issues, nor do they, in general, have experience of the world or people. They comment based on a lot of assumptions about Clinton supporters -- a very high number of whom have been long time activists in matters of social justice and civil rights -- or anyone who simply sees Obama in a less heroic light than they do, that most often appear to be based on their own prejudices, rather than knowledge, experience or thoughtfulness.

It it is hard to credit a "movement" as unifying when so many members of that supposed movement casually,constantly, and often unconsciously, reveal their own bigotry -- especially class, gender and age bigotry.

Instead of self-righteously judging everyone else as hateful, perhaps you should look at your own self and attitudes -- and your own prejudices.


by esmense on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:27:25 AM EST

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (2.00 / 1)

You may not know, but Obama supporters aren't a bunch of high school aged children.


by Whash on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:34:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (2.00 / 2)

t it is hard to credit a "movement" as unifying when so many members of that supposed movement casually,constantly, and often unconsciously, reveal their own bigotry -- especially class, gender and age bigotry."

What? Obama's support comes from all classes, ages, genders, and ethnic groups.


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:37:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (2.00 / 1)

Your list of vague generalities could be applied with equal force to Clinton supporters.  


by rfahey22 on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:45:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (2.00 / 1)

You just showed your own bias against young voters. As if all Obamas supports are stupid, inexperienced, or thoughtless. Try looking in the mirror yourself.


by lion king on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:48:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (2.00 / 1)

This is based on reading Obama supporters' comments, diaries, commentaries online. The assertion of this post, for instance, is that Clinton supporters are "haters." That's a pretty inexperienced and juvenile assumption. Whether the writer is 17 or 70.

These are common assumptions I have seen asserted over and over again by Obama supporters; Clinton voters are "racists," "rednecks," "trailer trash," "low information voters," "emotional," "hormonal," "gyno" voters, etc., etc., and much, much worse. But all variatons on a similar theme -- reflecting class, gender and/or age bias.

I am being charitable in assuming that the writers of such things are inexperienced and young, don't know much about the last 30-40 years of history of the party they claim to support, and haven't had time to have much experience or contact with people of different backgrounds.

Many Obama supporters express how enthusiastic they are about their first chance to vote for an African American political candidate -- it doesn't seem to occur to them that many older Democrats have been supporting African Americans in the political system for at least the last half century -- and that if they hadn't been we wouldn't now be on the verge of nominating an African American for president.

Once again, such a lack of historical perspective is usually a fault of the young.


by esmense on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:39:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (2.00 / 1)

Have you read the diaries that were cited in this diary?  Calling those diarists "haters" is being charitable.


by rfahey22 on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:49:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (none / 0)

You know what they say about assuming??????


by lion king on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 01:53:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (none / 0)

And how old are you, honey?


by esmense on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 02:10:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (none / 0)

Honey??  Please that's a derogatory statement. And age does not equal wisdom.


by lion king on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 02:26:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (none / 0)

How do you know what the Obama "movement" consists of? Because it seems to me the "many Obama supporters" you speak of are just a couple of hateful bloggers. And the fact that some 90% of AA support goes to Obama, I would say that those supporters have probably dealt with racial issues at some point in their life.

Speaking of "isms", I have always felt comments like these and calling people "honey" is extremely ageist. Yes, I may be younger than you, but that does not make me an ignorant, inexperienced moron.  Perhaps I have had experiences you haven't because things have changed since you were my age. I am a college graduate and I've voted in every election I possibly could, including state and local elections. I try to stay pretty informed and unlike you, I'm thrilled my peers are finally getting involved. We've sat around and watched our friends go fight in Iraq and try to look really proud when they go, although we are wondering if it's the last time we'll ever see them. In college, I had plenty of friends who had to drop out because they just couldn't afford tuition. I graduated and now, as a 24 year old, I have over $40,000 in debt, and  I can't seem to find a great job where I can even begin to make a dent in those loans. I am at an age where I am not ready to start a family and I really value my reproductive rights. Sure, I don't worry about home loans or the buyer's market, but I worry that I will never even be able to afford a home of my own. I can't save any of my money from paychecks, because I spend it all on rent, health insurance (I didn't have health insurance for a while because I couldn't afford it- then I broke my hand and realized it was something I had to find a way to afford), utilities, and food. And plenty of my peers are in the same boat. My two best friends are social workers. I watch them struggle with bills since their jobs pay them next to nothing. And gosh, I'd absolutely love to have more world experience, but I can't afford to take time off of work to travel, not to mention traveling costs. Plenty of my peers are in the same boat and I am so glad they have finally started getting involved in the political process to try and better their situation. The fact that Obama speaks so much to people our age is greatly appreciated, especially since it's sort of political suicide considering our historical, infamous apathy.

And if you think for an instant that none of us value all the work that past social activists have done, you are dead wrong. I am so proud of my parents for standing up for social justice when they were younger, and they tell me they are proud of me now for standing up for what I believe in, and for staying as informed as I can.

I don't throw the word "hateful" around lightly, but your attitude is certainly disrespectful. Considering the immense number of people who voted in Democratic primaries, I think it's pretty hard to pinpoint what constitutes a Clinton supporter or an Obama supporter.


by cecilybecily on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 03:30:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Wow, you mean you disagree with the comment (2.00 / 3)

in your diary,

"And I will not support a racist no matter what their color."

...that leaves only the conclusion that you DO and will support a racist.

...is that because you've finally realized that's the campaign he has been running and you can't admit a mistake?

Sad, very sad.


by LindaSFNM on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:27:58 AM EST

Re: Wow, you mean you disagree with the comment (2.00 / 2)

Your reasoning is sad...


unapologetic Obama supporter
by dantes on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:34:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (2.00 / 7)

Yo, BJ -

And you mean to tell me that Geekesque's suggestion that a blogger that slams racist rap lyrics is a "waste of skin" is fine??  Positively genocidal.  Geeky is one of the WORST offenders over at OrangeState.

So while you are crying buckets of tears for MyDD, why don't you go have a long look in the mirror.


by johnnygunn on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:28:04 AM EST

dKos is The Sewer of Hate (2.00 / 8)

Really.  You come here now and lament that which you worked so feverishly on your own to accomplish over at your own big orange sewage plant, simply because any ill themed diaries here are counterbalances to the tripe you have foisted on folks for over a year now.  Counterbalances that are far fewer in number and decidedly less abrasive in rhetoric than those you pen yourself, along with some of your more acrid cronies over at the kiddie sewer.

You have absolutely no moral ground on which to stand with your whining.  You are part and parcel to the problem, and if your own actions had not been so divisive in times past, political discourse would have a far better tone on the internet today.

YOU are the problem.

Own it.

Deal with it.


Hell's bells, even the GOP didn't have to crucify Eisenhower's record in order to make Reagan their 'saint'. We can have two great ones, you know?
by emsprater on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:28:42 AM EST

But, but...Kos started it, Mom! (2.00 / 1)

Wagging your finger at Kos or some anonymous blog poster for their behavior does NOT justify the kind of vile stuff that dominates the rec list here. I suggest everyone who is super angry about Hillary's chances step away from their computer for a few days. Then come back and look at what is being said. It's really quite embarrassing.


by jwolf on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:47:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: But, but...Kos started it, Mom! (2.00 / 3)

Likewise, supporting one such as the vile Bob Johnson when he decries that which he himself is guilty of from the opposing camp does nothing to change the discourse.

You can't poke a bear in a cage with a stick 45 minutes out of every waking hour of every day of the year and not expect to eventually get a bad reaction.

Bob knows this, it's what he has worked for, and that is what makes him tick.  Now he wants more attention.

Sick.


Hell's bells, even the GOP didn't have to crucify Eisenhower's record in order to make Reagan their 'saint'. We can have two great ones, you know?
by emsprater on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:53:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: But, but...Kos started it, Mom! (none / 0)

Okay, then forget about Bob.

Go ahead and look through my diaries and comments. You'll find--I think--that I've been uniformly respectful toward HRC and her supporters.

I say that there's something wrong here at MyDD. I and any number of other BHO supporters say this. I say this as someone who has called out fellow BHO supporters when they've unfairly attacked HRC.

I say this.

Let's not obscure the issue. I don't really care if Bob is or is not the best vehicle for this message. But the message is, in large part, true.


"Don't let it end this way; tell them I said something." -the last words of Pancho Villa
by shef on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 01:07:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hillary will campaign for Obama (2.00 / 1)

After he wins the nomination.

She has said so.

Own it.

Deal with it.


by ReillyDiefenbach on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:47:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary will campaign for Obama (2.00 / 1)

She will, because she has class.

I don't have class.

Enjoy that.


Hell's bells, even the GOP didn't have to crucify Eisenhower's record in order to make Reagan their 'saint'. We can have two great ones, you know?
by emsprater on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:04:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

We'll just have to limp along (2.00 / 0)

without you, LOL!


by ReillyDiefenbach on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:06:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: We'll just have to limp along (2.00 / 1)

And my funding and my support, and .... if we are continually disenfranchised here again in Florida, hundreds, maybe hundreds of thousands more folks just like myself.

I know it warms your cockles to have the continual 'joy' of sticking it to Clinton supporters to the degree that they simply don't follow along with your parade.  I hope that doesn't assist you in coming up a few gallons short of the finish line.

Obama himself could change all this by calling for his supporters and his campaign to stop the tireless undercurrent of work to label the Clinton's as racists, but he won't, he's too invested in it to do so now.  He could have actually really apologized for McClurkin, but he didn't, or he could have acknowledged that JJJ was wrong in his smears against Hillary, or that Wright's views were not good for America, instead of supporting them while later coming out to claim he would have left if Wright had not retired.  Heck, he could have never started all this if he had really been 'about change' instead of firing the first salvo with his 'she'll say anything to win' speech, or his consistent speeches which credit past GOP POTUS and ignore the achievements of Bill.

Too much water for me to work for his success.


Hell's bells, even the GOP didn't have to crucify Eisenhower's record in order to make Reagan their 'saint'. We can have two great ones, you know?
by emsprater on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:20:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hillary and I will work tirelessly (2.00 / 1)

to elect Obama this November.  You can stomp out of the sandbox if you wish, it won't matter one iota.


by ReillyDiefenbach on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 01:06:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary and I will work tirelessly (none / 0)

Given that you couldn't refute any of the points I made about Obama's campaign, it's more like a litter box than a sandbox that I am leaving you sitting within.

Enjoy the smell.


Hell's bells, even the GOP didn't have to crucify Eisenhower's record in order to make Reagan their 'saint'. We can have two great ones, you know?
by emsprater on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 01:36:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I take no joy in pointing out ... (none / 0)

... that Hillary Clinton was fine with Florida and Michigan voters being disenfranchised by their Republican state legislators until after Super Tuesday, when she realized that Obama was going to beat her in the other 48 states.

Pretending otherwise is exactly the sort of blinded, cultish behavior of which you accuse Obama supporters.

Take it out on those who really did the dirty deed on you, and on your own Congressional delegation, who also worked to blocke a legitimate Summer primary.

Don't blame it on Obama, whose hands are clean.


Ignorance is weakness. Get strong.
by tbetz on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 01:26:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I take no joy in pointing out ... (none / 0)

Obama is the candidate who actually stated that Florida 'didn't matter'. not Hillary.  Obama showed his disregard for the voters of MI by pulling his name off the ballot there, not Hillary.

The 'dirty deed' in rescheduling the election was done here by a GOP majority controlled state legislature and Governor, thanks.  The DNC became complicit in their zeal to deal out punishment, but directed it at the wrong subjects, the Democratic voters.

If, as you say, Obama's hands were 'clean', he would fully accept allowing Florida's primary to stand as has been decided by the completely legal and fair election of January 29, 2008.  It would not place Hillary ahead of him, it would not harm his chances in any way, other than his political machine would have not withstood their 'ground' wanting a do over caucus.  He is completely wrong on this issue and will loose much respect among Florida voters.  But hey, what the heck, he doesn't need us, right?


Hell's bells, even the GOP didn't have to crucify Eisenhower's record in order to make Reagan their 'saint'. We can have two great ones, you know?
by emsprater on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 02:30:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Fair election? (2.00 / 1)

Note how the poll numbers are closing in PA now that Obama is campaigning in that state. The reason neither MI nor FL are fair elections is because neither candidate could campaign there. Had Obama been able to campaign in FL, the numbers would have closed considerably, just as they've done in every other state.


by Quarterbackjoe on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 03:16:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fair election? (none / 0)

This is one of the more laughable positions I have heard.   You imply that because neither candidate could campaign in Florida, only Obama was 'affected'.  Also, just as an FYI, Obama actually had teevee ads in a portion of Florida prior to the election, and Hillary did not.  Go back to your cited places, such as PA, and look at polls for the same time period as the FL election.  Were polls there not 'fair' to Obama?

The numbers were what they were, not because there was no campaigning, not because there was no coverage or that no one in Florida knew anything about Obama.  The numbers were what they were because Florida has a closed primary.  DEMOCRATS voted in the Democratic primary, and thus made their choice for nominee known.  Obama's margin of support that is allowing him to overtake Clinton is his support from crossovers (who may or may not continue in his camp in the fall) and independents.    

Florida was fair to both.  Your stance is exactly what is wrong with Obama's holdout to not accept Florida's election as is, because he wants to 'game' it, just like he 'games' everything else.

MI does need a revote, because both candidates were not on the ballot.  Unfortunately, a kos inspired scheme is why Obama is also working behind the scenes against such a revote in MI, because some Democrats who would have cast votes for Obama actually voted for Romney in the GOP primary and therefore can't revote.  That's why he is 'gaming' the MI revote.


Hell's bells, even the GOP didn't have to crucify Eisenhower's record in order to make Reagan their 'saint'. We can have two great ones, you know?
by emsprater on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 03:34:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hilarious! (none / 0)

You sweep away the central, factually undeniable point that in every state where the candidates have campaigned Obama has managed to close the gap. That includes states with both closed and open primaries. Pennsylvania, as a matter of fact, is a closed primary and by some recent polls Obama has closed the margin to within single digits.

Then, you blame this on independents and crossovers, apparently ignorant of the fact that the conventional wisdom for Clinton campaigns since at least 1992 is that the campaign must be won in the middle, with these moderate, independent and crossover votes.

It's mind-boggling.


by Quarterbackjoe on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 04:18:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Cesspools contain all sorts of garbage (2.00 / 4)

"The Cesspool of hate " comes from Obama supporter too. You forgot to mention that.


by soyousay on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:31:13 AM EST

Re: Cesspools contain all sorts of garbage (2.00 / 1)

The negative personal attacks seem to be very much part of the HRC campaign.

The threats to vote for McCain are almost exclusively from the HRC supporters. And as Josh Marshall pointed out, this behavior is being encouraged by the candidate.

And Obama's camp is much more likely to make the argument that he's a better candidate; HRC's camp is much more likely to make the case that the opponent is unelectable.


Rrrinnggg... Time to change the government.
by Carl Nyberg on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 01:24:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Take any polls on this??? (none / 0)

If not, just an opinion....nothing more.


by soyousay on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 01:37:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Take any polls on this??? (none / 0)

Which statement is an opinion? Which statement do you disagree with?


Rrrinnggg... Time to change the government.
by Carl Nyberg on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 01:45:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Thanks for dropping by. (2.00 / 10)

I recommend you should organize a writers' strike and stay away.


Our long national nightmare is over.
by Beltway Dem on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:42:57 AM EST

Re: Thanks for dropping by. (2.00 / 1)

Now that's the silliest idea I've heard in a long time. ;-)

We will all unite behind the nominee eventually. McCain is *NOT* an option. I think he would be worse than a 3rd term for Bush.

by power of truth on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:36:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (2.00 / 7)

"No, you are not a Democrat if you make those kinds of off-the-wall accusations against good Democrats. You have become an unhinged fanatic."--Bob Johnson

Ahem, you seem to be confused about purpose of democracy. American democracy was instituted not for the sole benefit of Barack Obama, it it not a one-sided affair for the protection of The Golden One's sensitivity. The very foundation on which American democracy rests is that "unhinged fanatics" get to have their say. You, get to reply, which you have dutifully done. Mydd has understood this democratic principle and has thankfully stuck to it.

Democracy not Obamacracy! Democracy for all, yes even for"unhinged fanatics."


by superetendar on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:43:08 AM EST

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (2.00 / 1)

I love how the most repeated response here is that this sort of vile sliming is acceptable because they supposedly do it to Clinton over at DailyKos.  There's so much victimology on display here.  


by rfahey22 on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:43:52 AM EST

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (2.00 / 4)

I think the title of your post contributes to that "cesspool" you talk of.

Yes, it's gotten a bit out of control here with sarcasm and namecalling, troll rating, and the like running rampant, but inflammatory titles don't help the situation.


by mady on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:45:08 AM EST

GREAT POST. (1.60 / 5)

Recc'd.

I was so very and deeply troubled by the lack of intelligence and moral penury here last night that I COULD NOT SLEEP.  I got up and created a diary that I tagged as "snark" and was going to be meant as a parody of the sort of empty-headed vitriol that is flung about here like mashed potatoes as a grade-school food fight.

I did indeed post it, but after seeing just TWO reactions from it, I decided to simply delete it, as I realized that:

a) if someone didn't see the snark tag, or read the whole thing where I tipped my habd... the reader would think ME capable of the sort of vile crap that the likes of JFK646, FleaFlicker, and others are capable of..   and THAT is the last kind of crowd I want to be ASSociated with.

b) You can't beat 'em by joining 'em.  By becokming what you don't like...you lose.  When Hillary eventually does exit stage right, once the aid of Rush, Hannity, Ingram, etc., no longer can help...perhaps some of you all WHO have joined the Rovian ranks will realize this.  Others won't, but unlike attitudes, intelligence cannot be altered.

So i did the responsible thing, recognized the repurcussions and DID the good thing.  

I wish that some of you folks espousing hate and misery would have a similar common sensical moment every now and again.

Thanks Bob.

Recc'd.  


by a gunslinger on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:47:43 AM EST

Re: GREAT POST. (2.00 / 3)

I've had a similar reaction.  I had trouble sleeping last night because I couldn't stop thinking about some bloggy interactions I had on the No Quarter blog.  I'm not even much of a blog commenter in general, but I was provoked by the unbroken string of dozens of vicious comments about Obama, mostly about how he's a racist and how progressives have "jumped the shark" by supporting the media and DC-elite backed candidate.  I tried to make a pitch for supporting the Dem nominee, whoever it may be, but I got trashed in response.  I'm not used to being the subject of anger like that, and I was honestly trying to be conciliatory (with explicit praise of Hillary and support for her continued campaigning).  Maybe I'm just a delicate flower not used to blog commenting, but that really rattled me.  

Then this morning I saw the diary title, "Obama Supporter--Save Your Breath," which I read with alarm. The title itself seems to violate the principles of this site.  The diarist is admitting that he or she is not open to dialog!  I'm tempted to take the diarist's advice, because it does seem like a waste of breath in some ways (especially since I don't think these blog flame wars ultimately amount to much in the grand scheme of things).  But it's still really sad to see the negative emotions run wild, and it really all seems so unnecessary.  

Clinton and Obama are both politicos, both flawed, both ambitious and slightly crazy in the way one has to be to even consider running for president.  But they're also both leaders and champions for progressive causes, and they would both be light years better than McCain.  Anyone who disagrees with that (on both sides), it's hard for me to relate to!


by ankylosaurus on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:16:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: GREAT POST. (2.00 / 1)

Oh god, NoQuarter is HORRIBLE.  It's precisely because it's so bad that I don't let it get to me; the posters there would have never supported an african american candidate.  (If anyone is a poster there and this doesn't refer to you then I apologize but you must know what I'm talking about.)

As far as the people making long posts announcing that they won't vote for Obama should he win the nomination, I don't argue with them.  The premise of those posts is always that it's somehow MY fault.  Just point out that everyone's vote is their own responsibility and move on.


by Mostly on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:22:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (2.00 / 3)

I've been donating to this site for years.  Granted, I have sort of drifted away since Chris Bowers moved on, but I always had great respect for what was going on here.

I believe I have moral ground from which to comment. I care about dkos and have called out asshole posts and troll-rated, and done what I can to limit the nonsense that comes with a non-moderated site.

I care about this place too. More importantly, I care about getting democrats elected.  More and better.

Anyone here who excuses or condones or participates in this type of venom really disappoints me.  I dont care how you feel slighted or how dkos does it too or how you feel the system is rigged.

Have some respect for yourself and more importantly, for everyone else who is trying to make our small contribution to making things better.

Just stop it.


by Urban Pirate on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:49:37 AM EST

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (1.66 / 3)

Exactly.  This diarist is confirming daily the hateful racism and bigotry the B O campaign has set out on and continuing.....and how divisive it is.  Not only will this help his loss, but I don't even want to imagine these techniques and tactics being furthered.  

This example should be clear as to why Hillary is the best candidate and will be the best President.  


by LindaSFNM on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:09:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (none / 0)

Please.  I financially support this site too, and one just needs to look at the rec'd diary list to see that a small handful of individuals who supposedly support Clinton are the source of most of the gutter-level discourse here.  That is not a reflection on Clinton herself or the majority of her supporters.


by rfahey22 on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:44:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (1.66 / 3)

Exactly.  This diarist is confirming daily the hateful racism and bigotry the B O campaign has set out on and continuing.....and how divisive it is.  Not only will this help his loss, but I don't even want to imagine these techniques and tactics being furthered.  

This example should be clear as to why Hillary is the best candidate and will be the best President.  


by LindaSFNM on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:10:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (2.00 / 8)

I'm not surprised by this diary, since BJ has intimate knowledge of cesspools of hate.


by Lynwaz on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:53:49 AM EST

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (2.00 / 1)

A right on and well written diary.  In fact, you are considerably more charitable that I've been lately in my frustration with this crap.  Like you, I can understand a certain amount of frustration and passionate advocacy; but much of what I see here, including the Rec List diaries you mention, are so far beyond any bounds of reason that we may as well be RedState if we are going to promote and support those POV.

Tips for trying; but the apparent level of logic and critical thinking here doesn't bode well for you making any headway.


Nos causidicus Obama , ergo nos non suadeo
by rb608 on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:53:52 AM EST

I thought this title was a joke at first. (2.00 / 5)

What you are seeing, Bob, is a backlash against Obama's playing of the race card. It has been well-documented.

It is wrong and we will not stand for it.

Taking single quotes out of worthy, thoughtful diaries (particularly linfar's) to make your "point" is dishonest.

We only need to take a brief stroll through DailyObama to know what a cesspool of hate REALLY looks like.


by Scan on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:55:44 AM EST

Re: I thought this title was a joke at first. (2.00 / 2)

I will grant that linfar's was thoughtful in respect to the diarist's personal narrative, but it was misguided as applied to primary politics.  The person devoted what must have been pages to a personal story, then compared that to the famously misconstrued "typical white person" comment.  It's the same argumentative technique in many guilt-by-association diaries, though from a slightly different angle.


by rfahey22 on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:00:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I thought this title was a joke at first. (2.00 / 3)

Taking single quotes out of worthy, thoughtful diaries (particularly linfar's) to make your "point" is dishonest.
Rather ironic given that her diary was based on two words carefully extracted from a 40 minute long speech.


by Whash on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:04:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I thought this title was a joke at first. (2.00 / 2)

You beat me to it, Whash! Incredible irony, indeed.


by jwolf on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:13:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Here's the thing. (2.00 / 2)

This site SHOULD be a locale for strong debate about the candidates--their positions, their financiers, their plans, their tactics, who they are paying, and their voting records. I've seen that happen successfully here pretty often.

I've been soundly (and politely) corrected by Hillary supporters here when some of my facts were wrong, and I appreciate it.

It DOES become a problem when people go out of control with silly nitpicking (was Obama saying "professor" with a big P or a little p?) or (how dare Hillary qualify her defense of Obama with "as far as I know?").

It's also a travesty when people put out disinformation about candidates to make them look bad (For example, Obama did not "derail" the Michigan re-vote. He asked the committee to solve the problem of penalizing people who crossed over in that election that "wasn't supposed to count," when their candidate wasn't on the ballot. As it was, there were horribly imbalanced built-in penalties for people--like me and my friends--who had been wary of voting "uncommitted" but didn't support Hillary. The committee did not act to solve the problem in time.).

The absolute WORST is when people argue that McCain is better than the opposing candidate, or liken either candidate to truly horrible people, or when people  centralize race or sex in their arguments.

(And honestly? I haven't seen much of the "b" word here from Obama people. Maybe folks who've seen it can give a recent example.)


by rhetoricus on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:57:58 AM EST

Bob Johnson: Fool (1.37 / 8)

Most Democrats are Democrats out of principal. it is not loyalty to the Party that keeps us active but loyalty to pricipals.

The demand for party loyalty sounds soviet and totalitarian in nature and is not consistent with the values of any true liberal or progressive.

Barack Obama is in it totally for himself. He is among the least qualified candidates who've run for office in my lifetime. He ranks with GW Bush in that regard.

But that could be overlooked if it wasn't for his embrace of black bigotry and anti-americanism.

Liberals are pro-american and anti-bigot.

If the Party old guard like Kennedy, Kerry and others shove this creep Obama on us then many of us believe that we have no choice but to vote our values instead of the Party.

For me, I will go further. I will leave the party and register independent if Obama is forced on us.


by Caliman on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:01:41 PM EST

Re: Bob Johnson: Fool (none / 0)

Black bigotry...  Gotta love it.


by Whash on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:11:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bob Johnson: Fool (none / 0)

Your point might be taken more seriously if you bother'd to look up the difference between "principal" and "principle".


by dmc2 on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 01:58:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (2.00 / 4)

I would have paid more attention to the Obama endorsements by the senators if these were backed by good reason, Kerry thinks that Obama, because of his race will be a unifier, maccaskill because her daughters pressed her and because Obama is AA, Kennedy the same reasoning, same reasoning with Casey. Makes you pause and wonder if this is only a veneer over any one but Clinton. No wonder we are angry.


by rocky on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:03:37 PM EST

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (2.00 / 1)

I don't know about Casey, but as for the rest of them you're wrong about their reasons for endorsing Obama.  At least if you take them at their word, which I do.  I'm sure you know, however, that Hillary Clinton has more superdelegate endorsements than Barack Obama; the prospect of her winning more party elders than him is her "path to the nomination".  If you take them out of the picture, the race is over.

But no one's questioning your bitterness.  I think the other factor is probably that everyone assumed that Hillary Clinton would win the nomination.  I did.


by Mostly on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:15:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (none / 0)

Kennedy's endorsement seeme childish and petty. Apparently, he got his shorts in a bunch because Clinton's mentioning of LBJ's importance made his brother seem like less of a player than LBJ was in the civil rights field.


by Mayor McCheese on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:24:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (2.00 / 4)

I have to say...you're inflammatory titles and diaries often add to the problem. I've never been a fan of your dairies because I know the content and the tone before even opening them.


by apolitik on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:06:51 PM EST

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (2.00 / 2)

Bob, if you're not posting similar diaries on DailyKos directed at Obama supporters who are posting vile comments about Clinton, then you're being a hypocrite.  I don't go to dkos anymore, so I have no idea, and you may well be doing so.


by aggieric on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:08:30 PM EST

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (1.80 / 5)

Cesspool of Hate??

Gawd, it's sounding more Lamontian every day.
Didn't Lamont's campaign manager refer to Waterbury and its Lieberman supporters as "where the forces of slime meet the forces of evil"?  I agree with the majority of those who have posted comments to the effect that Obama supporters have used far worse language over at DailyKos and when they do drive-bys here.

Gotta love the Obamaramans.  Even if Obama gets the nomination, they have successfully alienated a huge portion of HRC supporters.  Calling Hill and Bill racists.  Calling HRC supporters racists.  And now - "Cesspool of Hate".  Yup - - you is doing a FINE job of building a coalition for November.


by johnnygunn on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:17:26 PM EST

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (2.00 / 1)

"Do these writers and all who have recommended their diaries and kept them on the MyDD rec list believe that people like Bill Richardson, Ted Kennedy, Claire McCaskill, Chris Dodd, Russ Feingold, Amy Kloubuchar, Dick Durbin, John Kerry, John Lewis and other liberal and progressive Democrats are either too stupid to see these nefarious plots, or are these folks simply racists, too?"

You forgot that the same writers who are denouncing the diaries that you mentioned were the same people who called Hillary and Bill racists during the South Carolina primary.


by 1986dude on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:21:45 PM EST

Democracy Not Obamocracy (2.00 / 5)

Sigh, must the entire system of American democracy be bent to Obama's will? Did 1776, the Bill of Rights, the Declaration of Independence all happen for the sole benefit of Obama and his henchmen/supporters to dominate and determine the entire discourse of this country?

Here is how it works; In a democracy, free speech reigns supreme. You get to call MyDD a "Cesspool of Hate," we, the good, wise and patient community of MyDD'ers get to respond with enlightenment, sarcasm, abuse, shock, whatever. In a democracy Obama gets to call Hillary all sorts of names, we the voters reserve the right to register our disapproval by talking back, blogging back and yes, even withholding our votes. Obama and his supporters cannot impose new rules anymore than King George tried to imposed tea taxes. And we all know how well that ended for the King don't we?

DEMOCRACY NOT OBAMOCRACY!


by superetendar on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:22:40 PM EST

Re: Democracy Not Obamocracy (2.00 / 2)

I missed where Obama called Hillary Clinton "all sorts of namees".


by Mostly on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:43:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (2.00 / 1)

I am supporting Obama because of his platform and electability. I am very disappointed in Clinton's campaign - the failure to make a reasonable effort in all states was a huge error. The only rule in primaries and caucuses which distribute delegates proportionately is this - "Don't get blown out." They didn't seem to understand that early enough.

Lastly, Clinton has harmed herself immeasurably with the sniper fabrications. She is hurting herself by sticking too long to these comments once it is clear that evidence exists which counter them. I think her staff has let her down.


by Shiloh on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:24:05 PM EST

Their platforms are not (2.00 / 1)

that different really.  

 


by Xanthe on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:26:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Their platforms are not (none / 0)

I think what you say about their platforms is true - they are fairly similar.

Any thoughts on why an expensive management group like the one Hillary has would make such a grievous error as to ignore some states completely? I can't think of an answer for that - even a 5th grader could see that a blowout in Nebrasks equalled two ten-point wins elsewhere. There isn't a poster on this site who wouldn't have steered her campaign in a better direction to gather pledged delegates. I just don't understand it.


by Shiloh on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 04:07:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Expensive is not always (none / 0)

the best.  Lots of people make great sums of money who really don't deserve it.

I don't know - unless the Hillary team thought it was a given she would get the nomination - or money - and a plan to garner only the larger states.  I'm not in the business.  Pat Buchanan was railing about this on McLaughlin's a few weeks ago.  He couldn't understand it - he kept shaking his head.  I don't know either - incompetence is always out there, of course - bad judgment.  Anyone?


by Xanthe on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 05:13:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

both Clinton and Obama would likely lose (none / 0)

to McCain. Right now I am not seeing the evidence for Obama's greater electability. Just saying.


Join the Iowa progressive community at Bleeding Heartland.
by desmoinesdem on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:42:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (2.00 / 2)

Until you post a similar diary to the Obama supporters on Daily Kos, you observations don't mean crap to me.


by Dave B on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:25:14 PM EST

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (2.00 / 1)

Wow, so you're a reasonable fellow.  Why not address the issue at hand without relying on false corrolaries as a crutch.


Oregon Hussein KCG - Hussein means: "good; small handsome one" in Arabic.
by oregonkcg on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:49:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (none / 0)

Wow, so you're a reasonable fellow.
Yes, that's correct.
by Dave B on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 02:51:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

If you're a Hillary supporter on Daily Kos (2.00 / 1)

and try and have an intelligent discussion you're met mostly with sarcasism and insults.  Get it through your head that many Hillary supporters don't like Obama because they don't feel he'll make a good president.  That doesn't mean we won't vote cross our fingers and vote for him if he's the nominee.  If we're convinced otherwise it will be out decision and certainly not by insulting our character and intelligence.


by laternighter on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:27:02 PM EST

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (2.00 / 1)

I agree that some of the diaries here are a bit ridiculous.  But for the most part, I think mydd has been one of the more fair progressive blogs this cycle.  Maybe it'll be different the next cycle, but this one, there seems to have been a faction of blogs that just went off and started spewing vitriol while hiding behind a veil of neutrality instead of simply being honest about their opinions.

It's the internet.  It is what it is.  You are going to have some crazy posts from people here and there, particularly in a cycle where the voting has been as split, and there are clear and distinct blocs of voters within the party supporting the candidates.


by toonsterwu on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:27:28 PM EST

this is what Obama supporters do (2.00 / 6)

they do not engage in policy debates but engage in bullying, smearing, race-baiting and sliming. Anything to divert the attention from the slim policy folder that their candidate has. Obama's politics is new politics alright, new Rovian politics, politics of personal destruction and race-baiting.
Over at DailyKos they even manufacture outrages as they did with the 3AM by first claiming falsely that Obama was made blacker and then saying that it was like Birth of the Nation. They celebrate that clown Olberman who likened Sen Clinton David Duke. In other words anyone who deos not support Obama is racist. They debase the discourse (none more than this diarist) and then whine.
To the diarist: You want to get out of this "cesspool" go back to DailyKos, it's a nice echo-chamber for mindless people like you.
by tarheel74 on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:29:15 PM EST

HOW DARE YOU (2.00 / 4)

How dare using the word hate and accusing everyone here of being full hate.

Did you forgot your conduct and behavior and thing you said?

After Hillary won NH and Nevada, you guys went crazy. Go read the filth you wrote on DK and some college campus blogs.

You called Hillary a WHORE, evil and damn stupid wife whose husband was caught with his pants around his ankle.

You wrote over and over and over that she cannot be trusted or even handle the presidency since she could not handle her husband.

You wrote that every voter who voted for her or supported is a racist

You swore up and down and yelled from the roof tops to everyone to hear after she won NH and Nevada that you would never never vote for her and that you would vote for the Republican nominee before even thinking about voting for the lying whore

You brought the blue dress with the stains and paraded it all over DK and many blogs on college campuses, and you said "look this is what her presidency is going to be about"

You revived all the hate and lies spread by the republicans in 1990s.

Almost everyone of you turned into a talking walking Tom Delay

You accused her murdering her friend...YOU ACCUSED her of MURDER for god sakes

You said that everyone who dare to vote for her is or was a member or has sympathy for the KKK

You bullied and threaten everyone who supported her out of your blogs

You said that her grandfather was a member of the KKK

AND NOW YOU COME HERE AND and lectured and us say this place is FULL OF HATE...

Well, you Reap hat you SOW. You sow hatred, lies, and terrorists like tactics...and you now are reaping their fruits.


by Tudor on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:30:45 PM EST

Re: HOW DARE YOU (2.00 / 1)

Can you just fathom the possibility that most of the "hateful" comments might have been posted by republican operatives?  Anyone can post on these sites, anyone.  And how easy it would be to post inflamatory invective and inflame Democrats against one another.  

Given this very possible possibility, perhaps one should, whether one is for Clinton or Obama, simply discount some of the uglier inflamatory statements and give one's fellow Democrats the benefit of the doubt.  Otherwise, we will fracture and hand the republicans another easy victory.


by oldbattleaxe on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 01:14:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: HOW DARE YOU (2.00 / 1)

Also, particularly when these hateful comments sound soooo much like neo-con talking points, like the Vince Foster crap.  Given that, I am far more likely to identify the source as an undercover neo-con rather than a true Democrat.  For heavens sake, use your noggin!


by oldbattleaxe on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 01:24:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: HOW DARE YOU (none / 0)

I wouldn't pay much attention to him... I haven't seen anybody say the things he's claiming to have been said. Well, maybe Scaife said them once. But he likes Clinton now.


unapologetic Obama supporter
by dantes on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 01:48:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: HOW DARE YOU (2.00 / 1)

You really haven't see those posts or diaries or comments. Well, i highly recommend you to take a look at the DK just after the NH and Nevada primaries. Pull your head out of ass, and go read those posts/diaries/comments.

I never said that i am a Hillary supporter now. I just don't care about Obama anymore and to be honest and this election as well. Did his supporter made me this way? probably yes, but i just think that you become like a guest that over stayed his welcome with all your sanctimonious bs and attacks. For god sake, take your heads out of your ass and look at what you have been saying and then think that you might, juuuuust might, have hurt some people, seriously hurt them.

I got thick skin and i don't really care one way or another about what you say Dantes. However, when it gets to my family, that's no longer politics, it becomes personal.


by Tudor on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 01:59:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: HOW DARE YOU (2.00 / 1)

I don't think that all those diaries and posts where written by neo-conservatives. The number was/is too big to really attribute all of them to the republicans.

However, you raise a very interesting point. Why would the republicans do that? If your preposition is true, it means that the republicans are more afraid of Hillary than Obama and they wanted to bombard her campaign in the primaries before the GE. However, the polls tell us just the opposite. Ergo, there are just Obama hooligans.

Anyway, your point about fracturing before November is real, i think. I personally went from an Obama enthusiast to one that looked at this whole thing with very suspicious eyes. I will vote for him, just as i voted for Kerry, Dukakis, Mondale before; with no excitement or enthusiast. However, my wife is staying home on election day and there is nothing on earth that would change her mind.  


by Tudor on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 01:48:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: HOW DARE YOU (none / 0)

Well, some pretty ugly things have been said about Obama too, about both Obama and Clinton.  If neo-con operatives have been busy, they've been busy enflaming both Obama and Clinton supporters against each other.  Look if they can damage BOTH Democratic contenders enough to lose against McCain then it is all sugar for them.  Let's see 28% of Clinton voters will stay home if Obama gets the nomination, 18% of Obama supporters will stay home if Clinton gets it, McCain wins.  And we will have been played for fools again.


by oldbattleaxe on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 02:03:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: HOW DARE YOU (2.00 / 1)

I read the attacks on Obama and i do not support them at all. But they are no where near the personal crap thrown at Hillary. I am serious here and i being very fair. Read some of the crap and you will go "wow, where's that come from?"

I think Obama needs to tell this troops to stop their bullshit and back off. They have tuned down the rhetoric a bit and that is because the campaign is ahead. But goodness gracious, after NH and Nevada, wow, that was unbelievable and please don't tell me that you did read any of that. Anyway, long story short, there has been some damage. Some of it can be reversed and some of it cannot. And the worse thing is that the more these male politicians call on her to drop out, the more it looks to some that they are ganging up on her. You got to put yourself in their shoes. She is the first viable female candidate ever, and after her, there will not be another woman candidate and for a long long time. So, of course they don't want to  drop out this easily.


by Tudor on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 02:14:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: HOW DARE YOU (none / 0)

Of course.  Play both sides against the middle.  Divide and conqueur.  Etc.

Not saying this is what is happening.  But seriously you have to wonder.  Even if it is not, it definitely benefits McSame more then either Hillary or Obama.

All that can be done is to try to support the positive, and ignore the negative.  Personally I dont think its as big a deal as some are trying to make it.


by herenow on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 02:17:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: HOW DARE YOU (2.00 / 1)

Can you just fathom the possibility that most of the "hateful" comments might have been posted by republican operatives?

I can't imagine.  Check out some other progressive sites-huffington, buzzflash, DU.  The level of vitriol directed at Hillary (and her supporters) is off the charts.  The sites that have kept me sane and informed through the past miserable 7 years now want me to know that I am "low-brow," "uneducated," "unprincipled." or a "racist" if I am not in their camp, and I'm not even talking about their comments sections.  If it is all the work of GOP mischief makers, they must have a staff of hundreds working 24h hours a day.  


by half nelson on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 03:42:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: HOW DARE YOU (none / 0)

yeah, I've seen stuff on pro Obama sites that matches what I've seen here pretty much.  Neo-con operatives don't have to do much to push people on both sides into pooh flinging contests.

I've see too much neo-con language not to recognize it when I see it.  When someone on Kos talks about "Billery," or that Vince Foster mess, or when someone here talks about "reverse racism" or equates Obama with Al Sharpton or Louis Farakahn, I say...HA...how did those little neo-con memes get there?


by oldbattleaxe on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 04:26:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: re: You have become an unhinged fanatic. (none / 0)

Or.... being called a 'unity' candidate by Barack Obama??
LOL!
by georgiast on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:33:22 PM EST

there are unhinged fanatics on both sides (2.00 / 2)

Like Jennifer Clare, who called Hillary a "sociopath" and got 11 recommends at DKos.

Are you trying to tell me that the DKos rec list doesn't have hatefest diaries with hundreds of tips and recs? Give me a break.

I don't recommend hate diaries on either side, but plenty of Obama supporters are only too happy to rec up the latest "Hillary is evil" diary.

It's very alienating to the non-fanatics, and it's not going to help your candidate unite the party for the general.


Join the Iowa progressive community at Bleeding Heartland.
by desmoinesdem on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:40:23 PM EST

Re: there are unhinged fanatics on both sides (2.00 / 1)

Amen. The rabid anti Hillary crap that made the rec list over at DK was absurd. One poster wrote a diary saying that he was wavering between two candidates then happened to decide upon Obama because of the "Fact" that HRCs fingerprints were found all over the Filegate files, which as the investigation proved, they were not. They rushed to trip over themelves to rec that diary and now they want to "cool" it?


by Mayor McCheese on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:45:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (2.00 / 4)

BJ Bob is best left ignored.


Fight for Democrats in Congress.
by owl06 on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:41:25 PM EST

I get it now (2.00 / 3)

A Church that espouses the Black Values System must be viewed in context.  But myDD is a cesspool of hatred..no context necessary

Thanks for clearing that up for us !!


If you follow history with a long enough arc, things always get better, and the truth always prevails...Gandhi
by SevenStrings on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:43:46 PM EST

the diary (none / 0)

gave you context.

You hang out here daily, what you do not know context.

You do not know that there daily personal attacks on Obama supporters? That there are trolls here? How blind are you?


-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 02:45:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: the diary (none / 0)

Yes, I recall someone mocking a certain Obama supporter over a PPP or pppp.  Seemed like this individual was inciting others to join in the mocking as well.

I agree with you, that was most uncalled for!!


If you follow history with a long enough arc, things always get better, and the truth always prevails...Gandhi
by SevenStrings on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 06:16:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I still maintain (none / 0)

that that professor vs Professor diary is the stupidest yet.


-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 02:00:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Glass Houses (2.00 / 3)

Bob, it's hard to take you seriously (even when you make good points, as you did in this diary) because you haven't exactly demonstrated that you're part of the solution.  Look at the title of this diary.  How do you expect people to respond to that?

Every diary you've written here in the last month or so has been heaping scorn and criticism on Clinton and/or her supporters. You haven't written a single diary here that tells us why you think Obama is the better candidate; you've used your skills to denigrate Clinton at every opportunity.

It's not unreasonable for people to question your motives in posting this here, while ignoring the stench from dkos. I've read many of your diaries over there, and you've been gunning for Hillary for a very long time. I'd guess that the majority of people here are (or once were) commenters at dkos, and they're familiar with your work.

I agree with you that there is an increasing level of vitriol among supporters, but it's from supporters on both sides, not just here, and certainly not just among Clinton supporters, as you posit. All you need do is look at the truly incredible level of TR'ing in the comments, and it's coming from both sides.

I don't approve of some of the diaries you mention here any more than I approve of many of the diaries you've written, both here and at dkos.

Democrats will need to have unity in the near future, but I really don't see you helping that cause.  You could have chosen a less inflammatory title for your diary, but you didn't. You could write a couple of diaries that aren't dripping with derision for Clinton and her supporters, but you don't.

I admire your writing skills, and I know that you're smart.  But I suspect you have no real interest in improving the situation.  If so, you have not demonstrated such.


"It pays to be obvious, especially if you have a reputation for subtlety". Salvor Hardin
by Denny Crane on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:49:50 PM EST

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (2.00 / 3)

This is absolutely ridiculous. Since this site doesn't mirror the disturbing conformity of Obama worship/Hillary-hate at the great orange satan, it is now a 'cesspool'? I have noticed the number of increasing anti-Hillary diaries posted on myDD with each passing day. The number of anti-Hillary rec'd diaries has also been going up. If anything, there is now parity on this site in pro-Hillary and pro-Obama sentiments (at least in writing). Unfortunately, any kind of back and forth discourse is unacceptable to the Obama trolls who have come here in a modern day crusade to wipe out the 'infidels' and their competing ideas. This is so sad for our party.  


by corunner26 on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 01:09:34 PM EST

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (2.00 / 1)

I agree that maybe the title was a bit over the top, but it did what it was supposed to... opened up this topic to some serious discussion.  

And it is obviously needed.

Your impression may be that this site is under attack by the modern day crusade of pro-Obama supporters, but seriously, this is not a war.  I highly doubt anyone comes here to wipe people out.  People come here to discuss their point of view.  Read some of the posts here.  They are much more important then the diary.  


by herenow on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 01:19:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Corunner: (none / 0)

Don't think its a coincidence that there are more and more Obama supporters at MyDD lately.  

There is a concerted effort by a small band of loudmouths to take over Democratic political discourse on the internet.  

They sit over at Daily Kos (and other internet locations), give each other reports about which sites are not yet 100% pro-Obama, and urge each other to go to over to those sites, gang up on everyone with their support of Obama, and basically hijack discourse.  Some of these reports are made in comments, and some are the subjects of full diaries.  

Hopefully, the admins here see what's going on are will do something to control it.  Otherwise, this place will soon become MyDailyObama.


My name is Barney Gumble, and I'm an alcoholic. Lisa: This is a girl scouts meeting. Barney: Is it, or is it you girls can't admit that you have a problem?
by PJ Jefferson on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 01:36:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

so your solution (none / 0)

is to sniffle people supporting a particular candidate?

You are ok with this place beng MyClinton but not MyObama. How are you any better then?


-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 02:41:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You missed my point. (none / 0)

There are ways to tell when people are coming over here and abusing the TR system as part of a concerted effort to stifle debate.  That is what I'm talking about, not silencing "people supporting a particular candidate".


My name is Barney Gumble, and I'm an alcoholic. Lisa: This is a girl scouts meeting. Barney: Is it, or is it you girls can't admit that you have a problem?
by PJ Jefferson on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 05:24:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Wellspring of disappointment (none / 0)

Most pro-Clinton dead enders I've met (and I live with one) dislike Obama because he didn't "wait his turn" and so risks robbing Hillary of "her moment".  Don't think the situation would be nearly so bad, though, if the Dems hadn't messed things up with superdelegates and the whole FL and MI thing.  

In a simple election where everyone agrees upon the rules in advance and there are no opportunities for gamesmanship, those who backed the also-ran are forced to confront a hard truth: my candidate lost because he or she didn't receive the most votes.

Not so here, and that's where much of the hard feeling comes from (most Obama supporters wouldn't be piling on Hillary if they had some belief she could win without gaming the result).  Similarly, the existence of a post-primary contest has encouraged many Clinton supporters to place their faith in "hail Mary" strategies and cling to this belief that there is no way Obama can win legitimately.

Bad news.  This whole cycle is an argument that the Dems need to create a much simpler set of rules.  


by IncognitoErgoSum on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 01:33:53 PM EST

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (2.00 / 2)

Oh, how pathetic.

Maybe I should make a diary of all of Bob Johnson's name calling and hateful comments.    No, I'll be kind.  We'll limit it to the occasional rant he posts.  We can only handle so much of that kind of talk.


by environmentally blue on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 02:03:26 PM EST

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (none / 0)

Bob...lighten up...
Surely you have supported a candidate who lost.
Surly you have thought or said
"I can't believe you really support this other person?"
For many...this is not just a candidate issue.
For many....especially women and folks whose melanin is darker  it is more than that.
As a white male...as I am...I cannot truly understand what it is like to have grown up in the U.S. with the sexist slant..(remember the ERA)any more than I can understand what it is like to be mixed race but be considered African-American.

This does not mean we cannot pursue a recognition
of the dignity for all people. It just means I...and perhaps other white guys don't really know...or should claim to know...or speak for anyone other than ourselves.


"If you want to end war and stuff, you gotta sing loud"...Arlo Guthrie
by nogo war on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 02:08:58 PM EST

dkos vs mydd - the fundamental difference (1.00 / 1)

Both sites are full of name-calling and venom for the opposing candidate, but there is no racism on DKos.

Let's be honest about race here - yes, it's a huge problem in this country - but it's not an issue AMONG US. We internet progressives are well past racism and sexism and so are our candidates.

No one for one second believes that Hillary or Obama is remotely racist or sexist in any way, shape or form. To use racism or sexism to argue about the democratic nomination is completely disingenuous. It's an embarrassingly obvious case of "playing the race/gender card". Anyone who writes that Obama or Hillary is a racist is an unequivocal troll who should be permanently banned.

Hostility is one thing, but to inject race or gender hate rhetoric into mydd is absolutely unforgivable and that, as I read it, is the point of this thoughtful and excellent diary.


McCain housing policy shaped by lobbyist.
by obsessed on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 02:20:21 PM EST

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (2.00 / 6)

I'd like to comment here, and am doing so with trepidation.  I recently joined 4 sites that seemed to me to be places where an aging (age 60) Democrat, could get excited and share with other's her perceptions of the amazing opportunity we now have to get the White House and the country back, and hopefully sweep in enough other elected officials to change the suicide course this nation is on currently.  

My students, college age, encouraged me to log on, join-up, and to add my perspective to the many younger voices now heard online.  They chided me to get involved, particularly because they know my history; as a feminist,  activist in the anti-war movement, the Civil Rights movement, and the Puerto Rican and Native American movements in this country.  

As a child of a multi-racial family, I lived in the Deep South.  I also lived in the North. I've seen the KKK, and lost dear friends who were murdered simply for registering people to vote.  

I grew up with a staunchly Republican granddad - who voted for the "Party of Lincoln".   I remember the haters and white supremacists, who posted signs reading "no niggers, no Jews, no papists, no dogs" from personal experience. I also have lived on the often forgotton concentration camps called Indian reservations.

I remember the Democrats who were Dixiecrats.  But the Democratic Party changed, and JFK and others swept in a new breed, and the old Dixiecrats fled to the Republican Party, and the Dems were a place where I could safely be.  It was a party where I could be safe from the haters, the race baiters, the anti-Semites, the anti-Catholics, the ethno-centrists, the Native killers.  

So, a few months ago, I started reading the sites recommended by my students.  After figuring out the technology, I joined and logged in.  I began to read more and more diaries, and finally decided to make some preliminary comments, and then post diaries of my own.  

But somewhere along the way, I started to become fearful.  When the Reverend Wright issue hit the fan, I was appalled.  Not by Reverend Wright, I'm familiar with African-American churches and preachers; though I'm not a Christian.  I sat in plenty pews during the Civil Rights movement.  As a scholar, I've studied the role and function of the Black Church, both historically, and in the  present day.  

I was appalled at the number of Democrats who took the bait, and jumped into the cesspool of hate speech, equating Barack Obama's church membership with him being anti-white.  I was confused by those who refused to listen to scholars and others who were small voices crying into a maelstrom  of vituperative, un-informed, hateful, and reactionary responses to a manufactured tempest, manipulated by Fox News and worse, to undermine the candidacy of one of the Democratic contestants.  More astonishing were those who have openly stated that they would rather vote for John McCain, if their candidate of choice didn't get nominated.  

"Are these Democrats?", I wondered.   Have the Dixiecrats somehow crept back into the Party while I wasn't looking?  I shook my head in disbelief and shuddered.  My worst nightmare was coming true...I was being catapulted back into my childhood years of hiding under the bed while my dad and other valiant professors armed themselves against cross-burners in Baton Rouge LA when I was 8 years old.  

Surely not.  These must be trolls.  I'd read about trolls on the net, and this had to be what was happening.  Sadly, I was proved wrong.  I checked the wayback machine, and found, much to my surprise that some of the diaries I was reading were from folks who had in the past been rational Democrats, somehow now transformed into the feared other.  

I said a prayer.  But prayer does little good without action.  So I began to post.  
My first post was not here, nor was it on DKos.  It was at TPM.  As a newbie poster, the reception was warm and friendly, for the first hour.  And then I logged back on and found some rude, hateful vicious responses that were I the mother, or grandmother or elder of those persons I would have washed their mouths out with soap and they would have been taken out back to the woodshed for a major old-fashioned whipping.   But that can't be done on the internet, and so I responded as civilly as I could and as I was raised to talk to folks by my parents.  

The civility was met with blind hatred.  I was mocked for my race, and ethnicity, excoriated about my feminism, dismissed as irrelevant, and spoken to like a cur in the streets.  

I will admit to you openly, that I did not get the same response at the DKos site.  I do not approve of sexist remarks, and though I have strong criticisms of Senator Clinton, who I voted for to be the Senator from my state, I will not click a rec/mojo button for posts which are sexist, in my understanding of the term.  Nor will I approve of racist remarks, of which there were some on DKos, more on TPM and there seemed to be even more here at MyDD.  

This site is making me afraid.  Afraid for the future of our Party.  Afraid for my own anger to be unleashed.  I've spent years trying as an anthropologist to develop my abilities to look at things through each culture's perspective; to hone my cultural relativism.  But the anger that is welling up inside of me has to come out.  I am reminded of a dear woman I had the good fortune to meet in my first year of college in 1964.  Mrs. Fannie Lou Hamer, co-founder of the Mississippi Freedom Democratic Party.  On her tombstone are her famous words, "I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired".

So to quote her, I'd like to say to you all, I am damned sick and tired of this hatefulness.
Get a grip, grow up - and remember every word you write here, and on other net pages is there forever; to be dredged up and used against us all in the battle to come.  

Debate policy, debate tactics, debate positions, debate the merits of the candidates.  But leave the hate, and the racism and the sexism behind.  Stop before it is too late.

Do you not see what you are doing?  Are you so blinded by having to be right, or cute, or witty or sarcastic, that you are unaware of how deeply you wound some of us who read, and rarely have much to say here, if we can get up enough nerve to say anything at all?  

Do you not have any empathy for those of us who are not like you?  Who may have a different take on our history and herstory?  What is Democracy to you?  A game?  For me it is life and death.  For my people, and for me (and I am the fruit of many trees) it is our only hope.  When I was 24, I vowed to not become an exile from the soil that nurtured my ancestors.  I had the option to leave America and never look back.  But I could not.  This is my country.  With its flaws, and stains, and a checkered past, it's the best option we collectively have.  

So I will not stand on the sidelines any longer.  I will continue to post here, and read here.

Some of you have posted that Mr. Johnson, who I don't know. should leave this site.  
I hope that he does not.  He, and a few others of you have given me the courage to remain, and resist.  

Are we to all sit in little ghettos - only talking to those who agree with us?  That path is the road to failure, and will end only in the victory of John McCain, and all that he represents, for not only the future of this country, but for citizens of the world.

Let us remember the KAIANARASERAKOWA (the Great Law of Peace) of the Haudenosaunee;  Mohawk-Oneida-Onondaga-Cayuga-Sene ca-Tuscarora


Anthropologists for human diversity; opposing racism,sexism,homophobism, ageism and ethnocentrism.
by NeciVelez on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 02:27:02 PM EST

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (2.00 / 3)

Thank you for speaking the truth with great eloquence.


Ida B. "We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad morals; we know now that it is bad economics"--F.D.R.
by Ida B on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 02:40:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (2.00 / 1)

do you teach down state? what do your students think of what is going on in the blogs


Ida B. "We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad morals; we know now that it is bad economics"--F.D.R.
by Ida B on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 02:45:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (2.00 / 2)

Hi Ida,
I teach in the Hudson Valley, at New Paltz.
My students are distressed, many of them were Green Party members, and have switched over to the Dems.  But they are disgusted by the level of acrimony on many of the blogs.  The good news is that they are not going to be deterred from being involved, and this has opened up an opportunity for many to engage in dialogue that hasn't taken place for many years in our school's history.

A majority of my students are from "white" upstate small town Republican families.  The students of color are predominantly Dominican and Puerto Rican from NYC, whose families are Democrats.  


Anthropologists for human diversity; opposing racism,sexism,homophobism, ageism and ethnocentrism.
by NeciVelez on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 03:03:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I am very happy to hear (2.00 / 1)

that. You and I are about the same age.I have been saying to friends that I haven't been this engaged in electoral politics since early 70's.
Well please do stick around I certainly plan to.
Ida B. "We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad morals; we know now that it is bad economics"--F.D.R.
by Ida B on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 03:16:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I am very happy to hear (2.00 / 1)

Ida,
Glad to meet another member of our generation here.  I'm sticking like glue. ;)
Anthropologists for human diversity; opposing racism,sexism,homophobism, ageism and ethnocentrism.
by NeciVelez on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 04:02:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The best comment ever! (2.00 / 2)

I wish I could rec it a hundred or a thousand times.  You brought tears to my eyes.

I'm not African American yet I weep at what they have suffered in this country.  I'm not Jewish yet I weep when I watch footage of the holocaust.  I'm not Muslim yet I weep when I see pictures of torture in Gitmo.  I am a human being and I weep when other human beings suffer.

(This might be a double post.  If so, sorry)


That One is the Right One for 2008.
by GFORD on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 03:01:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It is damn too late for some. (none / 0)

I think the cats are out of the bag. I honestly believe that Obama supporters overplayed their hands, way overplayed it. And now they just realized that they need the vote of those who, just a month ago, were called racists.

Well, as i said it in another comments, i believe that harm has been done. People got hurt because some of Obama supporters were just too damn stupid to realize there will be a general election sometime in November. My wife for example is one of those who will not vote for Obama "even he dips himself in gold" as says.

Now, it is too late to post another long and another sanctimonious speech about how we all need each other to defeat the republican. Well, this post should have posted about a month ago. Oh wait a second, i actually did post something like that on DK calling on my fellow Obama supporter to take it easy with the rhetoric and make some room for the supporters of Hillary because we all need each other votes in the general elections and i was rated a troll and called a republican and my wife called a whore and so forth even though i was known on that site. I don't blame those kids of doing that. I understand the end game, but there are some who do not and take it to heart.  


by Tudor on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 04:46:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Bob, we somewhat agree for once (2.00 / 1)

The diaries were reaching too far, no rec from me, to me that doesnt mean MyDD or a majority or even small minority of HRC supporters are at all racist, and that accusation will REALLY hurt Obama. Those posters arent racist either, what they said is a little off in my book, but not allout racist, theres a diff.


DEMOCRATIC 08!
by rigsoHC on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 02:47:53 PM EST

Daily Kos throws people out at the drop of a hat (1.75 / 4)

I wish the Cesspool of Hate would at least relieve itself of Troll #1. the Republican who goes by many names, one of which is Bob Johnson.


by earthoat on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 02:48:06 PM EST

Re: (none / 0)

Whereas I do not agree with everything that Bob Johnson has to say....he is not, by any stretch, a Republican. He will be voting for the Democrat in November. Something that, if I recall correctly, you have stated you will only do if Hillary is the candidate.

You are more likely to be the Republican in this equation. You are also the source of some of the more vile and contentious comments I've seen here of late. This makes your above comment rather humorous.

Fight the good fight (and vote for the Democrat in November).


by Kysen on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 04:09:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

and how do you know what he is? (none / 0)


by earthoat on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 12:51:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Bob, why aren't you at DU and Daily Kos (2.00 / 3)

the Clinton haters to cool it?

The diaries here are absolutely nothing compared to the crap you have been grinding out since summer.


by earthoat on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 02:52:05 PM EST

Trashing a whole site (2.00 / 2)

because of a handful of diaries is unfair.  

You would have much more credibility if you actually tried to engage in some discussion or debate honestly, and if you posted diaries about the equally hateful diaries and comments over at DailyKos.


by joanneleon on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 03:41:10 PM EST

its not (2.00 / 1)

handful...there are constant. I mean literally constant.


-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 03:50:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (2.00 / 1)

I really like MyDD, and find the raw emotion of the Diaries "real" and genuine.

I have never posted anything here (or on Koss etc.) and don't understand what constitutes a "Recommended Diary". Leaning towards Obama, but still admiring Hilary "the fighter", I admit I was drawn to this thread, because it was not "against" Obama. (What I don't understand is why, upon minutes of me starting to read it, it disappeared from the recommended diary list.

I believe the emotional attacks between the "Obama" and "Hilary"  camps are deplorable but very understandable and need to be vented.

The core issue, in my mind, is a birthing right of twins who both want to be first born. This birthing ritual has not divided progressive politics more deeply since the 1850s when blacks were given the vote before women. Now in 2008, we are faced with another great progressive achievement which again brings out primal rivalries between "white women" and "black men", in my judgement the two most abused, misunderstood, and neglected groups ever on this planet. And the prize is nothing else but the most powerful job in the world.

One of my heroes is "Elizabeth Cady Stanton", a free thinker, who fought hard for the rights of women to vote. In my mind she is one of the top progressives that ever lived in America. Giving the vote to women was her sole purpose in life and she fought tirelessly for its achievement. She won.

However, her good friend and fellow abolitionist "Frederick Douglass" also had a goal - to allow black "men" to vote - and he won first.

"Elizabeth Cady Stanton" was not a racist. When "Frederick Douglass" married a white woman, she supported him and openly supported all inter-racial marriage. She wanted people of all race and gender to be able to vote and believed "black woman" would be better off if "white women" got the vote first.

In the struggle on who would get the right to vote first - just like today - harsh words, "a cesspool of hate" was spewn between progressives.

None other than my hero, "Elizabeth Cady Stanton", said that women voters of "wealth, education, and refinement" were needed to offset the effect of former slaves and immigrants whose "pauperism, ignorance, and degradation" might negatively affect the American political system. She declared it to be "a serious question whether we had better stand aside and see 'Sambo' walk into the kingdom [of civil rights] first."

What to me is important, is that although Stanton, really believed that all Americans regardless of race and gender should be allowed to vote, her unfortunate "fighting" rhetoric about "the need for education and refinement" was used by hate mongers to enforce "literacy requirements". While the fifteenth amendment was passed and black "men" won the right to vote first, it was a hollow victory and for almost another hundred years, "literacy tests" to prove "education requirements" - inspired by Stanton's "fighting rhetoric" kept most blacks from voting anyway.

Progressives must be careful now. This is the potential birth of another American milestone. We are choosing a new president. It may be a "White Woman" or it may be a "Black Man" or if we continue the way we are going, it may be McBush and the status quo again.

I am sure that the two progressives from the 1850s, "Elizabeth Cady Stanton" and "Frederick Douglass" wish they could do it all over again, work together, and really win the fight for human dignity and equal rights for "all" America.

After eight years of the McBush government, we don't want another four more. This country can't afford two more right wing Supreme Court Justices, more wars in the middle east, and the middle class and poor getting poorer and Haliburton, the Oil Companies and the Insurance Companies getting richer.

Choosing either the "White Female" candidate or the "Black Male" candidate, will not only open doors for "their side" but for all progressives. Either one will get us out of Iraq, pick progressive justices for the Supreme Court, and fight big business.

It is my opinion that this battle touches primal emotional issues unconscious to most of us, and the ranting is understandable. I hope we get it all out of our system and support either progressive against those who are afraid of anything that isn't the status quo.

Again this is my first political post and I am proud to do it on MyDD where people are honest and say what they feel.


Democrats never agree on anything, that's why they're Democrats. If they agreed with each other, they would be Republicans. - Will Rogers
by benjaminsp on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 05:10:29 PM EST

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (2.00 / 1)

Thank you for posting this. I agree that we are repeating the mistakes of split of the 1850's.

BTW, Stanton apologized towards the end of her life, to Lucy Stone, and admitted she had been wrong.  


Anthropologists for human diversity; opposing racism,sexism,homophobism, ageism and ethnocentrism.
by NeciVelez on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 05:25:16 PM EST

Wow (2.00 / 1)

Universal, linfar, and JBK have all been banned and their diaries and comments deleted.  Thank god the admins of mydd finally got control of their site.


by Skaje on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 06:42:23 PM EST

Bob, please take your own advice (none / 0)

You posted that Hillary is in bed with the VRWC.  You wrote a diary attempting to convince people that Hillary and Scaife are now buddies.

In my world, that's called intellectual dishonesty.

I agree with you completely that some diaries/comments cross lines that should not be crossed.  I posted in Universal's diary that he/she crossed a line, and that no real Democrat IMO would post such a thing.  In the "George Wallace" diary, I recommended with a big caveat - it was well written and capable of stimulating a good, intellectual conversation - but it was clearly wrong in it's conclusion.  Wallace was a really bad guy, until he got shot and started to change.

However, your diary is exactly like a pot calling a kettle black.  Time and again, you've done exactly what you are now ranting against.

I, for one, condone none of it.

John


Never let the bullies win.
by SluggoJD on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:44:47 PM EST

Re: MyDD - The Cesspool of Hate (none / 0)

Well played, Bob.  Well played.


by Rumproast on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 09:49:58 AM EST


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