Revote: Clinton Camp Offers To Pony Up $15M

James Carville went on CNN yesterday and faced off against David Wilhelm calling for a revote in MI an FL. He dismissed any of the silly arguments against the cost of a revote. He offered $15 million from backers on Clinton side to help fund the elections and challenged the Obama side to pony up and get it done.

Wilhelm was startled and speechless. Carville was having a great time daring the Obama camp to move off their stalling tactics and do the right thing for the Democratic Party. It was a very entertaining exchange, and it clearly exposes the Obama camp's goal of running out the clock and not seating Florida and Michigan.

Wish we had the video, it was priceless, but here's the transcript:

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: So far, more than 29 million Democrats
have voted in the 2008 primary election. That's already almost double
the voter turnout from the 2004 primaries, and there's still more
contests left. Even in Florida where Democratic voters knew their votes
probably wouldn't count, more than twice as many people cast ballots on
primary day, 1.7 million voted this year compared to 750,000 back in 2004.

Let's get some more now on a possible do-over for the Florida and
Michigan primaries. We're joined by two top Democratic strategists, CNN
contributor James Carville, who supports Hillary Clinton, and David
Wilhelm, a former Clinton campaign manager who now supports Barack Obama.

...

James Carville, I know you love Hillary Clinton. There's no doubt
about that. You've worked with her. David Wilhelm once worked with the
Clintons, but he now supports Barack Obama. I want to get back to this
do-over in Michigan and Florida. You heard John Zarrella's piece where
he's laying out some obstacles that may not be overcome. Can the
Democrats get their act together in these two states and redo the
elections there?

JAMES CARVILLE, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, of course they can. I heard
a guy say we don't have voting machines. Well, how did Abraham Lincoln
get elected president? How did they do that? You can have paper
ballots. You can count them.

And by the way, in terms of the funding, I've talked to any number
of Democratic funders today, they're ready to put up serious money.
Senator Obama raised $55 million this past month. Senator Clinton
raised the money. Let's let these candidates get a little skin in this
game. Let's go around, raise some money, and let's show the world we
can do this.

You know, we're telling people all over the world to have
elections. And the United States of America is saying, well, we can't
afford to have an election in Florida and Michigan in the most exciting,
highly contested and important presidential election probably in the
history of this country.

We look ridiculous. I mean, let's just get together and have the
DNC put some money up. Have Senator Obama put some money up, Senator
Clinton's people put some money up and let's go out and raise the
money. We can do this easy, pass some paper ballots and count them.

BLITZER: You ready to accept that offer, David?

DAVID WILHELM, FORMER CLINTON CAMPAIGN MGR.: Well, I hope we can
figure this thing out. What I -- I'm glad about is that I think -- it
sounds to me like Senator Clinton's campaign is finally getting off this
notion that the illegal election, or the election that was run in
contravention of party rules should not stand, and that is a very good
thing. The posture of the Barack Obama campaign is tell us what the
rules are. We'll play by the rules and ...

CARVILLE: We'll raise it (ph). We'll raise -- we'll put up $15
million. I'll guarantee $15 million and have the Obama people put up
$15 million. And let's go to the polls come on June 7th. I've got
fundraisers that are lined up ready to go. I think the Democratic party
is going to look absolutely absurd if they don't have primaries and let
these people in Florida and Michigan vote. Again, I tell you what,
they're going to take (INAUDIBLE) to the general election if we don't do
it.

WILHELM: Well, this -- you know, ultimately, I don't think this is
up to the campaigns. I think this is ...

CARVILLE: Sure it is.

WILHELM: ...up to Chairman Dean -- the campaigns are part of the
discussion, but it's up to the people of Michigan, the state party of
Michigan, the National Party, the state party of Florida, and I'm sure
we can all ...

CARVILLE: No, David, David, this is ...

WILHELM: ...(INAUDIBLE) let's go, we -- all we want to do is know
what the rules are, play by the rules.

CARVILLE: No, the rules are these campaigns we can put on a
primary. I just love Florida. Every person that I talk to in Florida
wants to participate in this process. It's been racked by the subprime
crisis and foreclosures. Look at Michigan. We're going to say (ph) we
got rules here and we're going to have some kind of cockamamie (ph)
thing, or we can go and have a primary and let these people weigh in.
This is the United States of America. Let people vote.

WILHELM: We have nothing to fear from a primary if that comes to
it. Let's talk have the debate, let's talk about the economic issues
that matter.

CARVILLE: Good, right, I agree.

WILHELM: I'm in total agreement.

CARVILLE: I'll pledge $15 million.

WILHELM: I am praying and hopeful that we can figure out a way to
get this to happen.

CARVILLE: It's easy, it's easy. Print some ballots, let's raise
some money and let's get going and tell this guy in Florida, I don't
have any voting machines, then get some people in and count. Say here's
one ballot here, one ballot there and count them. That's the way they
used to do it. We can do that.

BLITZER: So, basically, what the challenge is $15 million -- he
says the Clinton campaign and their supporters can raise -- David, you
think the Obama campaign can raise $15 million? You got $30 million.
That's more than enough to handle new primaries in both Michigan and
Florida.

WILHELM: I'm not here today -- I'm sitting here in Columbus, Ohio.
I think that this is something that can get worked out, that will get
worked out. I think the state party and the National Party need to come
together. I'd be a little suspicious of the various attitudes of the
campaigns on this. This needs to be done in a judicious, mindful way
that is fair for all parties ...

BLITZER: But you know, but David, let me interrupt -- David, let me
interrupt because Howard Dean says he's ready to oversee a new primary
in both states. He just doesn't want to pay for it. The governors of
Florida and Michigan say they're ready to see new primaries, but they
don't want the taxpayers in those two states to pay for it. So, James
has just come up with a proposal whereby individual supporters of your
campaign, supporters of Hillary Clinton's campaign say, you know what,
we'll come up with the money and we can organize this.

WILHELM: Well, I guess that would be one of the options on the
table that needs to be worked out in conjunction with the national party
and the state parties. I -- I don't think the right place to hammer
this out is on your show here today. But I think it's one of the options.

No one has -- I -- the attitude of our campaign from day one has
been to play by the rules, whatever the rules are. The last I heard
from Senator Clinton's campaign was that they were insisting on the
seating of the delegation that was not elected several months ago.

CARVILLE: No, David. Listen to what I'm saying.

WILHELM: So what are we talking about here?

CARVILLE: Listen to what I'm saying.

WILHELM: And -

CARVILLE: I -- Wolf, can I -- is it all right if I say -- Very
simple thing. I have talked to people today that are ready to go. We
put up $15 million, Senator Obama puts up $15 million. We go to post
and we let Democratic voters in Florida and Michigan decide this thing.

We don't need a backroom negotiation. We need sunshine. We need to
somehow the world that the Democratic Party is ready to go. And we can
do this. In a country this rich, you're going to tell me that we're
going to exclude people from Florida and Michigan from participating in
this most important election in history?

WILHELM: I want every state to be a participant in this process and
to let the process play out. And we are more than happy, I am sure as a
campaign, to sit down with the people of -- and the Democratic
leadership of both states and the national party and help try to figure
this thing out.

CARVILLE: But -

(CROSSTALK)

WILHELM: I'm thrilled -- I am thrilled if today we're finally
getting off this notion that has been pressed by Senator Clinton's
campaign that we would try to -- that they would try to seat the
delegation that was elected contrary to the rules of the party -

CARVILLE: David, David, listen. I've talked to -

WILHELM: -- and where no one campaigned. So -

CARVILLE: I have talked to some of the biggest fundraisers that we
have. They are ready to go. They don't want -- they don't want people
in Florida who are being hit left and right by policies of
administration, their mortgages are being foreclosed.

People in Michigan have been dismayed (ph). We don't want to deny
these people the right to vote or participate. You have $55 million,
give me $15 million, get some skin in this game and let's go to post and
have a debate and talk about it.

WILHELM: Every -- fine. Every step of the way that has been what
Senator Obama's campaign has tried to do.

CARVILLE: Well then we've got your $15 million.

WILHELM: Let's figure it out. We're not going to figure it out on
the show today. That sounds like a reasonable position. Let's go.
Let's work with the leadership of the state. Let's work with the
leadership of the national party and God willing we will find a solution
that makes sense and can allow these votes to count in a fair way.

BLITZER: David -- David on that very upbeat note, because I think
you guys are getting close to an agreement here on a way out of, what
seemed to a lot of people, intractable -- you guys look like you're
getting close to an arrangement.

The people of the -- the Democrats at least in Michigan and Florida,
get ready in June, after Puerto Rico, for elections. It looks like
you're getting close to a deal.

CARVILLE: But Wolf, CNN makes enough money on these election
nights. Maybe we can get CNN -

BLITZER: In the scheme of things $30 million is not necessarily a
whole lot of money to make sure that millions of Democrats -

CARVILLE: That's right.

BLITZER: -- in Florida and Michigan have a say at their convention
in Denver.

Guys, continue to your discussions. Discuss amongst yourselves and
get back to us with the deal, and we'll report it. Thanks very much for
that.

CARVILLE: All right.

WILHELM: Thank you.

BLITZER: James Carville and David, Wilhelm. A good, good discussion.

Lot's of fun...

If anyone can find the CNN interview with Blitzer please post the link and I'll add it as an update.

Here is Carville a little earlier discussing the revote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPax6aHXB cg

Bottom line. Clinton campaign is ready for a revote and Obama is stalling, trying to wait out the clock and disenfrnchise two critical states.


Poll
Pony Up Obama?
Yes
No

Votes: 28
Results : Vote Link : Polls

Display:


Is Obama scared of a revote in MI and FL? (2.00 / 4)

I think he is.


by MediaFreeze on Sat Mar 08, 2008 at 05:23:49 PM EST

Re: Is Obama scared of a revote in MI and FL? (none / 0)

If penalizing the two states was the wrong thing to do, maybe Harold Ickes should let Harold Ickes know what he thinks of him.  Give him a piece of his mind!

And maybe Hillary shouldn't have agreed to the rules.  I want a President who does as they pledge to do.

They'll be a revote, but the idea that both campaigns are going to drop seven and a half million is ridiculous.  Neither of them have much to gain.  If anything, Obama has more to gain.  Michigan isn't Ohio.  He could do well there.   As for Florida, you're really overestimating her strength.  She won't beat him 70%-30%.  Even if she did, it wouldn't be enough to make up the delegate gap


"Behold, I send you out as sheep amidst the wolves! Therefore, be as wise as a serpent, And as harmless as a dove."
by Setrak on Sat Mar 08, 2008 at 05:36:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Is Obama scared of a revote in MI and FL? (none / 0)

No, it is $15 million a piece. How did you get $7.5 million from the article? I repeat it's $15 million from each campaign, Clinton and Obama.


by Check077 on Sat Mar 08, 2008 at 07:09:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Revote: Clinton Camp Offers To Pony Up $15M (2.00 / 1)

You go JC! This was the obvious answer all along to the "it costs too much" canard. It would take the campaigns about 2 days to find enough high dollar folks to pay for two primaries. If that long. They wouldn't even have to make any phone calls.


by ColoradoGuy on Sat Mar 08, 2008 at 05:34:42 PM EST

Obama should NOT contribute (1.00 / 2)

Why should Obama pay for the mistakes of the state party officials (and Hillary supporters)?

To hell with that.

They made their bed. They can sleep in it. Obama doesn't need either state to win the GE.


Bill Foster would agree, Barack Obama has coat tails.
by Walt Starr on Sat Mar 08, 2008 at 05:36:19 PM EST

Re: Obama should NOT contribute (2.00 / 3)

So you think that Obama doesn't need Florida or Michigan for the GE?

That sums up everything that's wrong with his campaign. It just has no idea what it's doing.

Damn right, Obama is afraid of a revote. He will get creamed like Ohio and Florida (previously).


by cath on Sat Mar 08, 2008 at 05:49:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama should NOT contribute (none / 0)

Luckily, he's very much getting it.

MI will vote Dem no matter what.  FL, who knows?

It's without doubt that there are some rich Clinton backers who want to use their money to sway the election to her.  So what?  Obama is not obligated to pony up cash, nor should he do so.  The states themselves can come up with the cash if they like.

If Carville's people want the revote in FL, let them pay for it; Obama would campaign there and limit his losses to less then the original vote would have been, I guarantee you.  Then where will Hillary be?  


by Cycloptichorn on Sat Mar 08, 2008 at 05:57:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama should NOT contribute (none / 0)

What I keep saying, whether he wins MI or not in a primary has NO bearing on how he'd do in MI in the GE.

That said, I think he should cooperate in the revotes. I think he could win or close to tie in MI and it wouldn't hurt him. Back when they did those (non) primaries, Obama hadn't campaigned there at all and it was before his winning streak. I think now that people know him better he may do pretty well in both Mi and FL. Heck Clinton only won Ohio by 10 points. I suspect it would be similar in FL. Then if he ties in MI he'd still be way ahead. I think he should go for it.

by Becky G on Sat Mar 08, 2008 at 06:00:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama should NOT contribute (2.00 / 2)

With arrogant comments like that it is easy to see why voters will hold their nose and vote Mccain.


Wisdom Is The Reward For Listening Over A Lifetime
by gunner on Sat Mar 08, 2008 at 06:01:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Up to the States to Fund (none / 0)

Wilhelm is correct here. Dean is correct, too. All the other 48 states managed to fund their primary contests, so Florida and Michigan should as well. That's their burden to bear if they want to count. And I expect that every other state is getting more than a little tired of the Florida and Michigan state parties acting like prima donnas.

Now, if that involves the states going around to big donors with a tin cup in hand, that's up to them. But it isn't either campaign's direct responsibility. Otherwise you'd set the disturbing precedent that only well-funded candidates could enjoy democracy.

I'm not wild about a bunch of primarily corporate interests providing the funding either. But, at the very least, both campaigns should stay away from that money. I don't want either candidate going to Washington tainted by $5 million from AT&T, for example.

I'm not sure where the $30M came from anyway. The estimate for a primary-by-mail system in Florida is $5M. Caucuses in Michigan won't cost $25M. It seems like Carville pulled that number out of his ass.


by BBCWatcher on Sat Mar 08, 2008 at 06:11:29 PM EST

Re: Revote: Clinton Camp Offers To Pony Up $15M (2.00 / 1)

Actually, he didn't.  Crist has said a primary in FL would cost $20 million and the Mich gov said it would cost $10 million there.  

It makes sense that Obama wouldn't want to put his money into two states he could very likely lose and subsequently be responsible for Hillary taking the nomination in August.  Still, it's a brilliant move on Clinton's part.  If he says no he looks like he's anti-democracy.  If he says yes, he's likely to lose the nomination because of it.  This brings me to my last point--don't we want our nominee to be brilliant at politics instead of out-matched in the fall?  Obama was smart with his 50 state strategy, but he was also getting incredibly positive media coverage.  As soon as the media went the least bit negative, he crashed.

Obama supporters, regardless of how you feel about Obama as a president, you have to respect Hillary's tactical brilliance in February up until now.  This move to raise $15 million was smart politics.  


by Change101 on Sat Mar 08, 2008 at 06:25:35 PM EST

Re: Revote: Clinton Camp Offers To Pony Up $15M (none / 0)

I hope the Clinton can find a way to fund those primaries and run against Obama labeling him with being Anti-democratic...

I hope the voters would vote against Obama in 80-90% in those states...


by Check077 on Sat Mar 08, 2008 at 07:15:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Revote: Clinton Camp Offers To Pony Up $15M (none / 0)

This is all about meaningless posturing, something Carville does very well.  

First off, I seriously doubt he has any authority to guarantee 15 million Dollars from a campaign that despite raising 35 million Dollars last month is in debt.

Secondly, a re-vote is really the last thing the Clinton camp wants.  A re-vote in FL will give HC and BO almost a split in the delegate count.  In the first vote she won 50% to his 33%.  That will most certainly change considering Edwards, Richardson, Biden, Dood and Kucinich will not be on the ballot.  The most likely outcome would be something like Clinton 56% Obama 44%  This would ultimately provide Obama with a net pick up.

In MI, Obama got no delegates at all because he was, as we all know, not on the ballot.  Realistically this state would also be split albeit much closer, probably something like 51-49 a virtual tie in delegates.

In any re-vote Obama comes out the winner.  I suspect as I stated earlier this is nothing but posturing and if push comes to shove, the Clinton camp would fight any re-vote tooth and nail.  Their best chance ifs to go to the convention and try to get the delegations seated as is.


Hillary Clinton is not a monster,....as far as I know.. We are all Hussein JUNIOR.. ///.. FEINGOLD/BOXER 2016
by Its Like Herding Cats on Sat Mar 08, 2008 at 06:34:15 PM EST

Re: Revote: Clinton Camp Offers To Pony Up $15M (2.00 / 2)

That is ridiculous.  All Hillary needs to do is win both states--the delegates will be meaningless if she's ahead in the popular votes.  It also gives her a chance to say that she's the one who can win the swing states.  If Obama agrees he is taking a huge chance that he will lose those two states and ultimately lose the nomination because of it.  Superdelegates will not vote for him if he loses Mich and Fl fair and square, no matter the percentage difference.  Delegates really don't matter at this point--it's the states you win and the popular vote.  


by Change101 on Sat Mar 08, 2008 at 06:38:14 PM EST

Re: Revote: Clinton Camp Offers To Pony Up $15M (none / 0)

With all due respect and not wanting to sound too mean, are you crazy?

It IS all about delegates.  Super delegates, are, guess what?  DELEGATES!

Winning the popular vote by a few hundred thousand votes out of tens of millions will mean nothing at all to the SD's, the are party activists and politicians, they will follow the money and the numbers.


Hillary Clinton is not a monster,....as far as I know.. We are all Hussein JUNIOR.. ///.. FEINGOLD/BOXER 2016
by Its Like Herding Cats on Sat Mar 08, 2008 at 06:56:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Revote: Clinton Camp Offers To Pony Up $15M (none / 0)

Anything is possible, but if I were a betting man, I'd bet the candidate who heads into the convention leading with a small popular vote total (percentage wise) and a large delegate deficit (percentage wise) ends up losing the supers.

Just an educated guess.


Hillary Clinton is not a monster,....as far as I know.. We are all Hussein JUNIOR.. ///.. FEINGOLD/BOXER 2016
by Its Like Herding Cats on Sat Mar 08, 2008 at 07:11:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Revote: Clinton Camp Offers To Pony Up $15M (2.00 / 1)

The reason that it is not all about the delegates is because Obama has built his lead in undemocratic caucuses. I know that do not want to hear that, but primaries gives the every voters an equal opportunity to have their voices heard.

DELEGATES ARE NOT GOING TO DETERMINE THIS...


by Check077 on Sat Mar 08, 2008 at 07:18:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Revote: Clinton Camp Offers To Pony Up $15M (none / 0)

Just the facts:

Delegates WILL determine the nominee.  There is no way around that fact. PERIOD.

Which way the delegates swing is something that can be debated, but the fact that they determine the nominee cannot.


Hillary Clinton is not a monster,....as far as I know.. We are all Hussein JUNIOR.. ///.. FEINGOLD/BOXER 2016
by Its Like Herding Cats on Sat Mar 08, 2008 at 07:37:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Revote: Clinton Camp Offers To Pony Up $15M (none / 0)

I concede the point that delegates, pledged and supers combined, do matter.  However, at this point, pledged delegates do not matter as much as the popular vote, I'm sorry.  Now, I'm not sure how the math works out, but if all the super delegates in each STATE the candidate won go to that candidate, who would win?  

You're not making solid points.  Which numbers matter?  If obama is ahead by 50-100 pledged delegates and Hillary is ahead by 100,000 to 400,000 votes, do you really see the SDs going with Obama?  Or, if SDs will go with who their constituency voted for, are they going with who the state went for?  Who their county went for?  All of these factors present different numbers.  SDs will also go with the momentum at the time.  They will not choose a losing candidate, because that would be stupid.

So, with all due respect, are you crazy???  there is no way SDs will go with Obama if he loses Fl and Mich., and PA.  I just don't see it happening, unless hillary suffers a meltdown between now and the convention.  But we can make a fake bet and see how it pans out.


by Change101 on Sat Mar 08, 2008 at 07:07:40 PM EST

Re: Revote: Clinton Camp Offers To Pony Up $15M (none / 0)

I realize this was supposed to be a reply to the above comment, but it also brings up an issue that I've been thinking about. I wonder what the totals are for Democratic vote totals. Since it is a Democratic candidate, I wonder if the Superdelegates would be interested in who got the most Democrats in the vote totals. In any case, it is an interesting question.


by MediaFreeze on Sat Mar 08, 2008 at 07:13:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Revote: Clinton Camp Offers To Pony Up $15M (none / 0)

Don't think there is anyway to determine that number as anyone who voted on a Democratic ballot would be called a Democrat and there is no way to know if they were a Democrat for a day, a Republican  or an Independent.

As far as the numbers of votes go, the current total not counting WY is:

Popular Vote Total
Obama           13,000,655
Clinton           12,411,705


Hillary Clinton is not a monster,....as far as I know.. We are all Hussein JUNIOR.. ///.. FEINGOLD/BOXER 2016
by Its Like Herding Cats on Sat Mar 08, 2008 at 07:35:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Revote: Clinton Camp Offers To Pony Up $15M (none / 0)

pledged delegates do not matter as much as the popular vote
 The nominee, at the convention is chosen by delegates, not popular votes.
If obama is ahead by 50-100 pledged delegates and Hillary is ahead by 100,000 to 400,000 votes, do you really see the SDs going with Obama?
Absolutely.

Or, if SDs will go with who their constituency voted for,
 No, they won't.  
are they going with who the state went for?
No, they won't.  
Who their county went for?
No, SD's will vote for the candidate whom they believe is best for the party's interests.  

Momentum means nothing, if you disagree, then you must then believe that the momentum is now in Obama's camp because of WY. (momentum)

SD's again, are party activists and elected officials, they feed at the teat of money and voters.  What we have seen quite clearly this election is Obama has the money side of the equation wrapped up.  The voter side is basically a wash.  100,000-400,000 votes out of 30 million is meaningless, and that is about the extent that Hillary could win the popular vote by.

The SD's will see an unprecedented amount of money being brought to the party from the Obama campaign, as well as basically 50% of the votes.

There is in reality very little chance that party activists will deny this election to the one that brought the money and the votes.  Like it or not, that person is Obama.

They will not choose a losing candidate, because that would be stupid.
 If you want to get into the REAL politics, no they won't and they will pay a lot of attention also to the polls that show Obama beating McCain regularly.  They will also look a t the electoral map and know that neither candidate is going to win TX or FL in the general election, just as neither will lose CA or NY.


Hillary Clinton is not a monster,....as far as I know.. We are all Hussein JUNIOR.. ///.. FEINGOLD/BOXER 2016
by Its Like Herding Cats on Sat Mar 08, 2008 at 07:30:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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