UPDATE - Has Hillary Clinton really been 'vetted' as she so often claims?

Update [2008-3-6 11:1:48 by Bob Johnson]:

The drip, drip, drip of questions about the Clinton's finances have begun. It's a long time until Pennsylvania. Bill Bradley from last night's NewsHour:

BILL BRADLEY: I think Barack Obama has a much stronger chance of beating John McCain in the general election. I think Hillary is flawed in many ways, and particularly if you look at her husband's unwillingness to release the names of the people who contributed to his presidential library. And the reason that is important -- you know, are there favors attached to $500,000 or $1 million contributions? And what do I mean by favors? I mean, pardons that are granted; investigations that are squelched; contracts that are awarded; regulations that are delayed. These are important questions. The people deserve to know. And we deserve, as Democrats, to know before a nominee is selected, because we don't want things to explode in a general election against John McCain.

And that's the just the beginning of Hillary's "vetting"...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Over and over, we have heard Hilary Clinton and her campaign surrogates claim that she has been "vetted for 15 years." Harold Ickes used those very words today.

The candidate, herself, has said:

"I've been tested. I've been vetted. I have been in the political arena in our country very intensely for 16 years. There are no surprises. There's not going to be anybody saying, `Well why didn't we think of that?' or `What, my goodness, what does that mean?'" she said. "I am going to be able to go up against any Republican who they nominate."

"No surprises?" You've been "vetted?"

Really?

I note that the Clinton camp has been calling for a "vetting" of Obama since before the Iowa caucus. The Clintonites have presented their "vetting" of Obama as almost a public service to the Democratic Party. Over and over we have heard that he needed to be "toughened up" because much harsher attacks were sure to come from the Republicans should Obama capture the nomination.

I diaried about this back before Iowa voters spoke:

Clinton backers: 'Obama needs to be vetted.' I say: 'Hillary, too!'

What has been fascinating to watch is the Clinton camp's never-ending zeal quest to "vet" Obama. All in the interest of making sure we know everything about him we possibly can, of course.

But has Hillary really been "vetted," as she and her campaign have repeatedly claimed?

Have any of her Democratic opponents, including Obama, sought more detailed answers from her about stories such as:

  • Norman Hsu and his bundling of money for her campaign?

  • How "dishwashers, waiters and others" poured "$1,000 and $2,000 contributions into Clinton's campaign treasury?"

  • Bill's trip to Kazakhstan with Canadian magnate, Frank Giustra, that netted Giustra $3 billion and Bill's foundation a $131 million contribution from Giustra?

  • How powerful foreign donors to Bill's presidential library, such as the Saudis, may pose a serious conflict of interest to Hillary's foreign policy actions as president?

  • How Bill's tangled ties to an investment concern of Clinton friend, Ron Burkle, and it's dealings with Dubai may yet, again, threaten to compromise Hillary Clinton's execution of foreign policy as president?

  • The fact that with all of these questionable financial dealings, the Clintons have been unwilling to release their tax returns, especially in light of Hillary Clinton claiming that the $5 million she lent the campaign was "her own money?"

  • And, finally, though we, as Democrats, don't care who Bill schtupps (and, no, none of us believe he has kept his fly zipped the last seven years), you can be damn sure the Republicans will be digging hard (no pun intended) to see just what Bill has been up to since leaving office.

So has Hillary really been vetted? Shouldn't she be fully vetted on these stories and others for no other reason than as a public service to the Democratic Party? (The same logic Camp Clinton continually throws out for its "vetting" of Obama.)

Shouldn't the press be asking her about these stories and their potential impact on the race, should she garner the nomination? Shouldn't Democratic superdelegates take into account these items that may present themselves in "full bloom" during a race versus John McCain in the Fall?

Is $150,000 (since returned) from Tony Rezko more important than hundreds of millions of dollars in secret transactions?

I think for the sake of the Democratic Party, Hillary Clinton needs to be fully vetted.

I am sorry. I am not taking her or her surrogates at their word that there are "no surprises" and that she has been "fully vetted."

The facts are, she has not. Certainly not to the extent she will be on these stories -- and more -- in a general election versus John McCain.

Let the "vetting" begin.



Display:


I say (1.63 / 11)

we vet you.


by Soitgoes on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 04:08:27 PM EST

Re: I say (2.00 / 12)

I'm Taylor Marsh.


by Bob Johnson on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 04:12:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Huh. (2.00 / 6)

Everybody has a dream, I guess. If yours is to be Taylor Marsh, I say, "Be well! But be careful of the heels. Metaphorically, of course."

I think your diary is almost amusing. I understand the German judges gave it an 8 for rhetoric and a 1.7 for substance. Better luck next time.  


by Soitgoes on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 04:27:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Today? (2.00 / 1)

Nah.

Why did you change names?


by Bob Johnson on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 04:42:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Today? (2.00 / 1)

How low you've sunk, Bob. You can't even "vet" Hillary Clinton. The majority of your "points" in the diary are about BILL CLINTON, not Hillary.

LOL...get real, Bob. You'll have to do better than that to get any traction!

Here's some news you can use, Bob:

Survey USA: Clinton Beats McCain in Match-up

1st Nationwide Clinton vs McCain Poll After Clinton Victories in OH and TX

SurveyUSA

1,041 registered voters interviewed by SurveyUSA 03/05/08, following Clinton victories in Ohio, Texas and Rhode Island on 03/04/08.

Pairing #1:

* Clinton 48%
* McCain 46%

Pairing #2:

* Obama 46%
* McCain 46%


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Harry S Truman
by Tennessean on Thu Mar 06, 2008 at 08:07:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Today? (none / 0)

This should concern HRC supporters.  No one is attacking her.  The points of this diary and other issues are just waiting out there, but the kitchen sink (including false claims about Nafta, being Muslim, HRC's "proven" emergency judgment, and the Rezko non story) was thrown at BHO.  So, you have a poll where there is no statistical difference between HRC and BHO.  

HRC supporter should be worried, what happens when she is attacked?


--1jphusseinb-- she's not a monster, as far as I know--diplomat Sinbad, making the world safe--all bluster, no cattle--
by 1jpb on Thu Mar 06, 2008 at 02:31:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Where are Billary getting their money from? (1.66 / 6)

It is awfully odd that so many poor latinos are able to send $2,000 checks to Hillary. Some serious vetting will be required to get to the bottom of this. Rest assured that if it is not exposed during the primary, it will definitely be fully "vetted" by the GOP.

They will also look into Norman Hsu and Marc Rich and every other dirty deal the Clintons have engaged in, including Borat-gate.

Just remember, they started it.


by commoncents on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 04:14:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Where are Billary getting their money from? (1.66 / 3)

Those were mostly poor Chinese.


by Bob Johnson on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 04:16:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Where are Billary getting their money from? (2.00 / 1)

AH..So latinos and hispanics are all poor and can't possible earn their own money, right? Maybe the Obama campaign should hire you as their outreach coordinator.


by Mayor McCheese on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 04:31:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Where are Billary getting their money from? (none / 0)

No, they are "poor" based on occupation which also gets reported on FEC filings. Time to "vet" them too, I say.


by amiches on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 05:24:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Where are Billary getting their money from? (none / 0)

You can tell someone is "poor" by occupation? How can you do this? For example, there are lawyers making millions and there are struggling solo practioners who can't afford more to pay their bills. They are retired people living on social security alone and there are retired people living in the Hamptons part of the year and in the keys in the cold part. There are "Teachers" who make 25K in some public schools and there are teachers making close to six figures.


by Mayor McCheese on Thu Mar 06, 2008 at 01:57:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Where are Billary getting their money from? (none / 0)

And, I guess, there are lots of very wealthy bus boys!


by mainelib on Thu Mar 06, 2008 at 07:16:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I agree (none / 0)

We need to vet the mysterious Bob Johnson.  Is that his real name?  Is he really a Democrat?

As far as I am concerned, he's nothing but an anonymous screenname.  His posts should be judged accordingly.


Never let the bullies win.
by SluggoJD on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 01:12:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Has Hillary Clinton really been 'vetted' as sh (2.00 / 3)

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.


by mefck on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 04:11:03 PM EST

No vetting since Bill left office. (1.80 / 5)

The Starr stuff is ancient history. Everything in the list comes post-presidency.


by Bob Johnson on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 04:12:26 PM EST

Re: No vetting since Bill left office. (2.00 / 3)

You forget that she has been through two New York Senate campaigns since Bill left office.  The Republicans tried VERY hard to find something on her and failed.  Donors to Bill Clinton's library?  Surely you jest. Bill is not running for anything. Now, if we could just get Obama to release the names of his "bundled" donors we might have some reciprocity.  But then again, he refuses to be interviewed on his long relationship with Tony Rezko, so I guess we'll have to wait for those names.  


by miriam on Thu Mar 06, 2008 at 09:58:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The last 8 years (2.00 / 5)

of Hillary and Bill have not been vetted. Just yesterday there was an article on the front page of the Chicago Tribune  detailing how Bill Clinton sold worthless stock options for 700k to some unnamed party that he recieved for one appearance for a fledging search engine company..Annocon(sp).. which is half owned by the Chinese govt. Boris Kasparov also made and appearance, got the options, and says he could never sell them for any value with the stock price too low. It smells funny. Full disclosure time Hillary and Bill. Who are the buyers? Time to be vetted.


by hawkjt on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 04:18:27 PM EST

Re: The last 8 years (2.00 / 5)

Oh my. That sounds horrible. I'm really concerned. NOT!


by Fleaflicker on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 04:22:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The last 8 years (none / 0)

So, you don't care about all the business deals that the Clintons have been involved in that have allowed them to increase their net worth by about $30 million over the last six years.  But you are concerned about a ten foot strip of land that Obama bought from Rezko for $110,000?

Can you say hypocrite?


by upper left on Thu Mar 06, 2008 at 08:24:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The last 8 years (1.66 / 3)

this is more trash talk useless bunk.  No one even cares. Get a life


democrat voter
by democrat voter on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 04:36:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The last 8 years (2.00 / 3)

says the person who's spent the past 12 days hyping a story about Obama buying a strip of land at above market value


by amiches on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 05:25:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The last 8 years (none / 0)

Please post the link. Thanks.


by mainelib on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 04:51:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The last 8 years (2.00 / 1)

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/polit ics/chi-080303-clinton-finance,1,5982452 .story


"Please. How stupid do I look to you? World Domination. I'll leave that to the religious nuts or the Republicans, thank you." The Monarch (Evil Villain)
by fetboy on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 10:26:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Nothing Illegal, but certainly shady and unethical (2.00 / 1)

It is further proof that the Clintons will do anything for a buck.
Hillary Clinton never explained why she took a position on the Board of Walmart, nor has she adequately explained how she was able to turn a grand into a cool, perfect 100 grand from commodities trading, why she stopped trading at a cool, perfect 100 grand, and why she initially said the money was a gift from her parents.
Yeah, I know I am going back a long time ago on those commodities trades, but if she is going to go back more than 10 years ago on Rezko, then there is no limit to how far back we can vet Clinton.
The long list of shady deals the Clintons have made, and the long list of dubious characters they are associated with is absolutely astonishing.    
"Please. How stupid do I look to you? World Domination. I'll leave that to the religious nuts or the Republicans, thank you." The Monarch (Evil Villain)
by fetboy on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 10:40:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The last 8 years (2.00 / 2)

Here's the link from the Chicago Tribune. It has been covered by other media outlets as well.

WASHINGTON -  In December 2004, former President Bill Clinton made a much-publicized appearance at a launch party in New York for Accoona, a new Internet search engine billing itself as a rival to Google.

Clinton's presence at the gathering at Tavern on the Green in Central Park was a coup for the unheralded, privately held Accoona, which paid for the former president's appearance by issuing options for 200,000 shares of stock to Clinton's charity, the William J. Clinton Foundation. In 2006, the Clinton Foundation sold the shares for $700,000.

Another celebrity hired by Accoona, Russian chess grandmaster Garry Kasparov, did not fare as well. Kasparov also was paid in stock options, but his agent said he has not exercised them because his financial advisers told him last year that the shares were worth less than their $1 option exercise price.

The Clinton Foundation's good fortune with Accoona stock is among several lucrative transactions involving the former president's personal and charitable finances. Since leaving office in 2001, Clinton has wiped out millions of dollars in legal bills and become a multimillionaire through a brisk schedule of speechmaking and book-writing, as well as a pair of consulting and investing agreements that have yielded as-yet-undisclosed sums.

Clinton also raised more than $362million for his foundation through 2006 and secured pledges for billions more.

There's other financial dealings which raise questions mentioned in the article.  Since the account that Hillary used to loan money to the campaign is a joint account with Bill, it puts all of his financial dealings on the table along with hers since it's evidently helping to finance her presidential campaign.


by vbdietz on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 10:52:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Has Hillary Clinton really been 'vetted' (2.00 / 4)

I have heard absolutely more than enough about this release of the tax forms stuff. If you are an American then you would know that we ALL have until April 15th to file our taxes. I don't know what that means in Barack time but for the rest of us it means we have more than a month to file our taxes.

Do you know for any fact (I realize I may have to define the word for you so if you have problems looking it up on wikipedia just let me know) at all that the Clinton's have filed their tax forms? Any proof (another challenging word, I 'm sorry) that they are withholding something?


by Fleaflicker on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 04:21:17 PM EST

Re: Has Hillary Clinton really been 'vetted' (2.00 / 1)

Right, the Clinton's have been 'to busy' to prepare their taxs. It's an obvious dodge and indicates that they are hiding something.


by JoeCoaster on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 04:27:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yeah (none / 0)

Too busy every minute of every day for the past 7 years.


"Please. How stupid do I look to you? World Domination. I'll leave that to the religious nuts or the Republicans, thank you." The Monarch (Evil Villain)
by fetboy on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 10:42:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Then what about their returns from 2002-2006? (2.00 / 4)


by Bob Johnson on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 04:30:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Then what about their returns from 2002-2006? (2.00 / 1)

Since when were the tax returns of other Americans your business anyway?


by Fleaflicker on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 04:35:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Um, you mean serious candidates for president... (2.00 / 3)

... shouldn't release their tax returns?

Really?


by Bob Johnson on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 04:39:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Then what about their returns from 2002-2006? (2.00 / 3)

Since whenever they decided to run for president.

This has been the case for countless past presidential candidates.  Why is Clinton special?


by goodnbad on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 04:43:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Then what about their returns from 2002-2006? (2.00 / 1)

It has been the practice to do so, not the legal requirement.


by Fleaflicker on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 04:46:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Then what about their returns from 2002-2006? (2.00 / 1)

Yes, it has been tradition for presidential candidates to submit their returns for scrutiny.

Why hasn't she?  Or more likely - what is she hiding?


by goodnbad on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 04:55:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What about his (none / 0)

earmarks for 2005-2006. That's certainly not personal.


by cmugirl90 on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 06:29:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What about his (2.00 / 2)

Really?  Earmarks?  You want to "go there"?

For future reference, may I suggest a simple, 5 second Google search to prevent you and your candidate from looking really silly on blog boards?

For example, here's what I was able to dig up in about, oh, 3 seconds of work:

"Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton helped secure more than $340 million worth of home-state projects in last year's spending bills, placing her among the top 10 Senate recipients of what are commonly known as earmarks, according to a new study by a nonpartisan budget watchdog group.

Working with her New York colleagues in nearly every case, Clinton supported almost four times as much spending on earmarked projects as her rival for the Democratic presidential nomination, Sen. Barack Obama (Ill.), whose $91 million total placed him in the bottom quarter of senators who seek earmarks, the study showed."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/15 /clinton-earmarks-land-her_n_86890.html

Oops.


by goodnbad on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 06:57:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What about his (none / 0)

You mean Senator Obama wasted $91 million of taxpayers money to bribe and influence decisions in his favor?

Isnt that what earmarks are for?

So much for cleaning old style Washington style politics with Chicago politics!!


by Sandeep on Thu Mar 06, 2008 at 05:00:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What ? (none / 0)

Did you even read the post you responded to.

Obama had $92 million in earmarks.

Clinton had $340 million in earmarks.

And you post a snarky comment about Obama?

Earmarks are not all wasted spending.  Both sides should be looked at carefully, but your comment doesn't make much sense.


by upper left on Thu Mar 06, 2008 at 08:38:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What about his (none / 0)

You really have no idea what you're talking about.  Earmarks are usually things like a new senior citizen center in a town, research funds for the state university, etc.

Until you check the list, you don't know what they are, so you just smear, smear, smear.


by mainelib on Thu Mar 06, 2008 at 07:19:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Then what about their returns from 2002-2006? (2.00 / 2)

Because she's interviewing for the highest job in the land, and to be honest, I have "concerns" about her integrity and where she gets her money, and I think she needs to be fully "vetted" in her activities in the past 8 years.


by amiches on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 05:27:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Then what about their returns from 2002-2006? (2.00 / 2)

When hundreds of millions of dollars have swapped hands between people who's prime interest is NOT the well being of the United States and that money has been paid to libraries and foundations, and accounts of someone who's prime interest is supposed to be the well being of the United States, then we have a right to know that there is nothing that would interfere with the President's absolutely unadulterated judgment where our nation is concerned.

Look at post 9/11 Bush's handling of all things Saudi Arabian. That kind of un-American influence cannot be allowed to continue into yet another administration.


by Reality Bites Back on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 06:15:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Uh-huh (none / 0)

No candidate shilling here folks, just unfettered, unbiased concern. Move along.

Uh, you may want to change your sig line.


by Soitgoes on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 06:22:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

My bad. (none / 0)

Ignore sig line comment.....Though you can see how I first read it to mean something else.


by Soitgoes on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 06:23:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Has Hillary Clinton really been 'vetted' (none / 0)

It isn't this year's tax returns.  They are from 2006.


by mefck on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 04:42:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

April 15 is agreed, but which year? (none / 0)

agreed, Hillary has until April 15, 2008, for her 2007 taxes, but what about previous tax years? Also April 15, 2008? Is that how it works? Different rules for the rich I guess. Anyone know when Barack filed his taxes for the years 2002 through 2006?
by Ajax the Greater on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 05:01:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: April 15 is agreed, but which year? (2.00 / 1)

hey, I'm poor as dirt and I never file my taxes on time.  As long as I pay the estimated tax I can file for all the extensions I need.  April 15th is your last day to PAY, not necessarily file.

So quizzle me this -- if there's something shady going on here, wouldn't you think the Bush Administration IRS would be all over them?

This isn't about breaking the law, dammit, it's about RELEASING which they are not legally compelled to do.

Do we have a right to see them?  Yes.  But there is zero evidence or reason to believe anything illegal or evasive is going on here.

I think there are ten pointy-eared senior accountants ammending all those returns right this minute trying to put together the set of returns least likely to make them look filthy rich -- and another ten spin doctors holding every line up to the light to imagine every possible way that line can be used against her.

That's good politics, not illegal behavior.  when the "release them" noise becomes more damaging than the returns themselves they'll release them.


Sexism is real.
by grassrootsorganizer on Thu Mar 06, 2008 at 04:22:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: There is certainly evasion (none / 0)

"there is zero evidence or reason to believe anything illegal or evasive is going on here."

The Clintons have increased there net worth by about $30 million over the last five years.  That is a lot of dough for somebody who was deeply in legal debt coming out of the White House.

Most of the candidates released their 2005, 2006 Returns when they filed to run for POTUS.  Both McCain and Obama have done so.  The very fact that Clinton has not despite repeated requests is in itself evasive, and this evasion raises concerns about what the Clinton's may be reluctant to reveal.

I think it is important to try to apply the same standard to your own candidate that you would apply to others.


by upper left on Thu Mar 06, 2008 at 08:48:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: April 15 is agreed, but which year? (none / 0)

Whatever she is hiding is probably not illegal but it would probably lose her the chance to win the primary.  If not, why not follow the example of the other candidates?


No Way, No How, No McCain!
by GFORD on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 12:13:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

these are since Bill clinton left office (none / 0)

This not about the tax returns due 4/15/08; it's about years and years of tax returns that have long been filed.

What's in there?  What are they afraid of?


by mainelib on Thu Mar 06, 2008 at 07:20:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: these are since Bill clinton left office (none / 0)

Their tax returns for previous years HAVE been released.  What are you talking about?


by miriam on Thu Mar 06, 2008 at 10:03:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Has Hillary Clinton really been 'vetted' (none / 0)

You're kidding, right? We are also talking about LAST years tax forms. the 2006 version. We will not see them before Penn. And that should at least raise a concern, no? "If you are an American than you would know..." idiot.
by bdwilson on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 01:33:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama was too easy (2.00 / 0)

He tried his best to stay "above" the political warfare, but at some point it becomes necessary.


by highgrade on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 04:23:02 PM EST

Re: Obama was too easy (2.00 / 9)

Your statement is almost too funny. Obama hasn't stayed above anything. He goes out flashes that smile and tells people what they want to hear while the rest of his campaign staff does the thug work. He is equally complicit in this. In all of it.


by Fleaflicker on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 04:37:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama was too easy (2.00 / 3)

Obama has spent this whole past year trashing Hillary Clinton, saying the most insulting things he could, so he has done plenty of trash talk, it just didn't work out for him, we democrats just don't hate her that much.  Even if you do, sorry, get over it.


democrat voter
by democrat voter on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 04:39:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama was too easy (2.00 / 1)

>>Obama has spent this whole past year trashing Hillary Clinton<<

Links?


by goodnbad on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 04:44:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama was too easy (2.00 / 1)

No links, but he said that she periodically feels down in the polls, the filthy misogynist pig!! Vote McCain!!


unapologetic Obama supporter
by dantes on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 05:06:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Actually its working for him and not for her (1.00 / 1)

he is still the favorite to win the nomination.  Hillary is just running glamor campaign.  She doesn't have a chance to win the delegate race.    


Listening comes first
by Moonwood on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 05:03:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama was too easy (none / 0)

Saying the most insulting things he could?!?! You're not serious...
by PhilFR on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 07:58:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: yes she has (2.00 / 1)

Well, I'll give you that Hillary's Obama/Rezko smear campaign has just started but this is an old story. He will be in the news  so the distortions will continue I guess. Just has NAFTA gate was all hot airs so is Rezko.

Glass Jaw? Funny he was back with the media the next day. It was a 'back of the plane' session, not a news conference sorry.


by JoeCoaster on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 04:24:56 PM EST

Re: yes she has (2.00 / 5)

He was back the next day to repair the damage from the day before. He still didn't answer their questions.


by Fleaflicker on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 04:38:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Has Hillary Clinton really been 'vetted' as sh (2.00 / 5)

Looking for some reason to trash Hillary are you?  Doesn't even matter.  You just don't get it yet.  None of this stuff even matters to the average voter who voted in Ohio.  They don't follow this trash you spew.  They don't even care about this stuff about Rezko.  What they care about, and what Hillary offers is a competent and able person to do the damned job.  They did not think Obama was up to the task, and neither do I.  He needs more experience,  as VP maybe but not OJT in the WH.  We are in trouble out here, and Obama just doesn't have the stones for that, I'm afraid.  All your rants won't make a bit of difference in the end.  They don't even read your junk.


democrat voter
by democrat voter on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 04:35:15 PM EST

Yeah. (2.00 / 6)

I'm sure you sent a missive to the Clinton camp telling them to knock off the Rezko stuff.

Okay.

It's all about having a fully-vetted candidate.

We don't want any surprises come the general.


by Bob Johnson on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 04:41:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

35 years of experience and nothing to show for it (2.00 / 2)

What exactly has Hillary accomplished other than working for Wal-mart and failing at health care?

Please name one accomplishment


Listening comes first
by Moonwood on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 05:05:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 35 years of experience and nothing to show for (2.00 / 2)

Name one crisis where she was at the center and her "tested" judgment saved the day. Name one - just one.

If she was sitting in on security meetings during the Clinton administration without clearance and offering her unelected 2 cents to the point of altering policy, that would be both illegal, and counter to representative democracy.

Using that as a standard, could you not argue that Laura Bush's First Lady experience is far more significant with regard to national security credentials than Hillary's given Laura's tenure during a time of a multi-front war.


by Reality Bites Back on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 06:22:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

HRC accomplishments (2.00 / 1)

Since no one here will do the homework....

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lissa-musc atine-and-melanne-verveer/hillarys-unpre cedented-e_b_76883.html

http://www.forbes.com/2006/09/06/leaders hip-pink-clinton-cx_ag_0906clinton_2.htm l

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/2 /20/205647/071/860/460876


by cmugirl90 on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 06:41:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: HRC accomplishments (none / 0)

A few things jump out:

The Huff piece is by HRC supporters, so it is biased.  It leaves out one of the few time HRC was tested to make an important foriegn policy decision:
HRC listened to a translation as Mrs. Arafat said,
"It is important to point out here the severe damage caused by the intensive daily use of poison gas by Israeli forces in the past years that has led to an increase in cancer cases against Palestinian women and children," Mrs Arafat said.
She added that 80% of water resources were contaminated, and that the ground was full of chemicals banned internationally.
HRC did nothing at the time of the comments.  Then the next day she still didn't "denounce" the comments.
Mrs Clinton was responding to accusations by Suha Arafat that Israel had contaminated Palestinian areas with poison gas.
"Everyone who supports this (peace) effort should refrain from inflammatory rhetoric and from baseless accusations... that could in any way adversely affect what the parties are attempting to achieve,"
Now more than eight years later I demand that HRC must unequivocally and specifically denounce and reject Mrs. Arafat, or else we'll have proof that she hates Israel.

The forbes piece is a friendly candidate bio, all candidates have these including BHO and McCain, not much can be gained.  But they forgot that she failed the bar the first time in DC.  They also forgot that used unsubstantiated accusations against a 12 year old rape victim:  

"'I have been informed that the complainant is emotionally unstable with a tendency to seek out older men and to engage in fantasizing,' wrote Rodham, without referring to the source of that allegation. 'I have also been informed that she has in the past made false accusations about persons, claiming they had attacked her body.'
"Dale Gibson, the investigator, doesn't recall seeing evidence that the girl had fabricated previous attacks."
This is the Clinton behavior we've seen time and again: quite likely fabricated charges, so skillful so as to become impossible to completely disprove, which serve "the greater good" of whatever cause they're using at the moment to burnish their credentials, experience, or legacy.
What's disturbing about this article isn't that Clinton mounted a vigorous case as a public defender. It's that it appears she played fast and loose with the truth in order to satiate her manic desire to prove her "bulldog" toughness to other observers. You can mount a vigorous case, but you're not supposed to conjure up the circumstances that allow you to make that defense. Lying to help yourself out during your first court assigned case is not an indispensable part of the country's legal defense system.

The links above don't mention how HRC supported Dick Morris and sold out poor families:

http://www.buzzflash.com/articles/editor blog/034

While in the White House, the SCHIP legislation was important.  But, Orin Hatch was also critical to this passage, and I don't think most Democrats would nominate him.  And, the HMO's love SCHIP more than anyone else because the government payments often go to them--you may have noticed the big health care lobbyists were in favor of the recent expansion of SCHIP.

Reading the accomplishments in the US Senate, the dKos link demonstrates that HRC hasn't been able to change minds to get any major legislation passed in the US Senate (BHO got ethics, and arms control, not to mention tax cuts, health care, ethics and justice system review among others in IL.)  She has been on the sidelines in the Senate as she planned for a presidential run, how else can you explain her effort to pass an unconstitutional flag burning ban.  

HRC's first election was against a weak competitor (after Rudy got out), and WJC was helping by pardoning 16 FALN terrorists so HRC would get the Puerto Rican vote.  HRC's reelection isn't impressive, she spent $41 million to beat a weak competitor who spent less than $6 million in the blue state of NY.


--1jphusseinb-- she's not a monster, as far as I know--diplomat Sinbad, making the world safe--all bluster, no cattle--
by 1jpb on Thu Mar 06, 2008 at 07:14:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Has Hillary Clinton really been 'vetted' as sh (none / 0)

Good thing Hillary is running for president...of Ohio.


No Way, No How, No McCain!
by GFORD on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 12:15:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

If she'd really been vetted (2.00 / 5)

then Hillary's supporters would be yawning at this, not threatening to vet Bob Johnson, etc.

Vetting is helpful to both candidates.  Allows them to hone responses and play the "we've been over this, its a dead issue" card in the GE.  


John McCain: Healthcare for Kids? In America? No way
by bosdcla14 on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 04:40:02 PM EST

Re: Has Hillary Clinton really been 'vetted'? (2.00 / 4)

AP:

"Obama's campaign immediately delivered on his pledge to criticize Clinton. Aides distributed a memo and held a conference call to question why she won't release her tax returns. The Clinton campaign responded with a statement e-mailed to reporters while they were on the Obama call that said the Clintons' returns since they left the White House will be made public around April 15."

Today is March 5th.  Why does she need more than a month to release tax returns for previous tax years?

She obviously doesn't want to give anybody much of an opportunity to scrutinize them in detail before the April 22, PA primary.

What is she hiding?


by goodnbad on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 04:41:28 PM EST

Re: Has Hillary Clinton really been 'vetted'? (2.00 / 3)

These are all the tax returns since the end of the Clinton presidency.

If she can't get the 2007 ones out now, fine.

But what about the other ones?

What is she hiding?


by mainelib on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 04:52:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What is she hiding? (2.00 / 1)

Lots and lots and lots of money.

No reason to think it was gained illegally or unethically.  Lots and lots of money is going to be it's own political hurdle to jump.

But hey, that's what ex-presidents do -- make lots and lots of money.

The good ones also collect lots and lots of money for charitable foundations...like the Clinton Foundation.


Sexism is real.
by grassrootsorganizer on Thu Mar 06, 2008 at 04:26:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I see the (2.00 / 3)

"what is she hiding?" meme has been duly received and used. Personally, I don't give a shit about that, or Rezko for that matter though the NAFTA stuff bothers me. And really, this diary comes off as petty and mean spirited because the bottom line for me is that she is the best person left standing to lead the country. Short of proving she slays kittens with a severed baby head, I'll continue to think so. (Honestly, I don't know where that image came from. Yikes.)


by Soitgoes on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 05:05:32 PM EST

Re: I see the (2.00 / 1)

But she hasn't been vetted.

We have to make sure that everything comes out that the Republicans could use against her.


by mainelib on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 05:06:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I see the (none / 0)

You're a riot, Alice. Hey, what part of Maine? I lived there for many years.


by Soitgoes on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 05:26:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I see the (2.00 / 3)

How can you know whether you "give a shit" about her tax returns?

You, nor I, nor anybody else has any idea what they are going to reveal!

On the other hand, her hesitation in releasing them tells us a WHOLE LOT.


by goodnbad on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 05:23:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I see the (2.00 / 3)

I. Don't. Care. I can't believe there is anything in them that will shatter the earth any more than I believe Obama's friendship with Rezko means he's chock full of shady skeletons. Hillary Clinton is one of, if not the most vetted woman in the world. Stick to the issues, baby. Stick to what matters to people who want to figure out how to pay their bills, how to stay healthy or if they're not how to afford treatment, how to educate themselves and their children, how to help the earth heal, and how to protect ourselves from those who mean us harm. Stick to the issues.


by Soitgoes on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 05:35:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

here's what it tells me (2.00 / 1)

Her reluctance to release tells me there is stuff in those returns that can be crafted into sound bites and create a passing storm of media scrutiny of their finances and who pays Bill to do what.  what that tells me is she is one shrewd politician looking for the right window in which to release them.

It tells me that when all the dust settles, as with every other long withheld Clinton tax return, we'll see nothing there but a couple of people with a huge combined income that can be a short-term political liability for a Democrat.  


Sexism is real.
by grassrootsorganizer on Thu Mar 06, 2008 at 04:32:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

The question of the week (2.00 / 1)

What is Hillary hiding?


Listening comes first
by Moonwood on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 05:06:43 PM EST

Re: The question of the week (none / 0)

lots and lots of money.


Sexism is real.
by grassrootsorganizer on Thu Mar 06, 2008 at 04:32:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Has Hillary Clinton really been 'vetted' as sh (2.00 / 3)

I'd just note that there is a certain amount of dissonance between the "Obama has this thing locked up due to delegate math" narrative and the "time to look through the tax returns" narrative.  As long as you understand that, I'm hardly the one to get all "how dare you!" about it.

Personally, I think the notion that Obama has refrained from going negative to date is absolutely ludicrous, and I welcome some rummaging through Hillary's garbage pails simply because I'll never have to hear that myth again.

I should explain, by the way, that the concept of having been "vetted" doesn't actually mean that there has been nothing newsworthy about the Clintons post-presidency.  What it means is that there has been so much BS flung at them both over the years that attacks with no substance just seem to bounce off at this point.  The Kazakhstan thing is a good example since the blogs seem to think it's a colossal scandal just waiting to break, complete with all the good buzzwords ("foreign dictator!" "uranium!").  But seriously, you can wait all you want for the media to start asking questions about this, but you should realize that it's already been on the front page of the New York Times.  People have simply heard so much about the Clintons at this point that they have no interest in going there.

But I mean, this is a theory that can be tested.  Obama's campaign can make all the hay it wants over tax returns and whatever else, and if it sticks and hurts Hillary's chances, there's your proof that the "vetting" argument was invalid and that she's not made of Teflon after all.  So go for it, I say.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 05:13:22 PM EST

Re: Has Hillary Clinton really been 'vetted' as sh (2.00 / 1)

Steve, I think it's less about what Obama would do with this and what Republicans would do with it in a general election.

In many ways, it's a case to be made to superdelegates.


by Bob Johnson on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 05:18:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Has Hillary Clinton really been 'vetted' as sh (2.00 / 2)

Well, you can only test the theory by going there.

I don't believe many superdelegates will be swayed by ominous rustling of papers and threats to explore all sorts of unnamed nooks and crannies.  The challenge is to identify a specific issue that will actually cause a problem in the GE, and I personally doubt it can be done.  I expect this whole meta-issue to die out following much saber-rattling by Axelrod and company.

But again, I trust you understood the point of my first paragraph.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 05:29:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Has Hillary Clinton really been 'vetted' as sh (none / 0)

It doesn't have to be Obama. It should, rightly, be the press asking her these questions. After all, she was the one urging the press just two days ago to question Obama on the Canadian story.


by Bob Johnson on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 05:32:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Has Hillary Clinton really been 'vetted' as sh (2.00 / 2)

There's very little difference between Hillary making an issue of Rezko and Hillary asking the press to make an issue of Rezko.  Similarly, the Obama campaign can beg the press over and over to dig through Hillary's tax returns, but they can't do that and maintain the claim that they are running a positive, issue-based campaign.  Nor can they simultaneously claim that Hillary has no chance because of delegate math and that Hillary needs to be vetted for the GE.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 06:24:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Has Hillary Clinton really been 'vetted' as sh (2.00 / 1)

It's called "equal treatment."

I always laugh when I hear the Clintons whining about the press. Bill Clinton created the immune-from-competition behemoths he so despises by signing the egregious Telecommunications Act.

He made the very monsters he whines about.

Now it's Obama's turn to ask about fairness.


by Bob Johnson on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 07:11:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Has Hillary Clinton really been 'vetted' as sh (2.00 / 2)

While the Telecommunications Act is on my list of Clinton grievances as well, I seem to remember that it passed by a pretty veto-proof margin anyway.  Our party seems to be the only one willing to support bills that represent electoral suicide.

Anyway, fairness is certainly in the eye of the beholder, but my point is simply that it constitutes going negative no matter how you slice it.  Mind you, I'm perfectly okay with Obama going negative, I just wouldn't think it fits with where his campaign is right now.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 08:11:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Has Hillary Clinton really been 'vetted' as sh (none / 0)

Exactly! The press should vet E V E R Y B O D Y ! ! !

Of course they will do it in a one side at a time manner (to the leader) intended to bring the race to as close to a dramatic 50%/50% brawl as they can, but they should do it none the less, on a continual basis, and without bias - exclamation point!


by Reality Bites Back on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 06:26:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Has Hillary Clinton really been 'vetted' as sh (none / 0)

Then why has Obama gained superdelegates since Tuesday while Clinton has not?

Clinton's super-d lead is down to 35 now.  


by mainelib on Thu Mar 06, 2008 at 07:22:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Has Hillary Clinton really been 'vetted' as sh (1.83 / 6)

But the problem with this is that if the Obama campaign engages in mud-slinging, it's likely to hurt Obama more than Clinton. For instance, if the Obama campaign pushes the Hsu money-bundling story (which is a pretty old and vetted story anyway), it will open itself up to scrutiny about its own problems with bundled donations:

Additionally, looking at Public Citizen's list of bundlers for the Obama campaign (people soliciting donations from others), 27 are employed by law firms registered as federal lobbyists. The total sum raised by bundlers for Obama from these 27 firms: $2,650,000. (There are also dozens of high powered bundlers from Wall Street working the Armani-suit and red-suspenders cocktail circuits, like Bruce Heyman, managing director at Goldman Sachs; J. Michael Schell, vice chairman of Global Banking at Citigroup; Louis Susman, managing director, Citigroup; Robert Wolf, CEO, UBS Americas. Each raised over $200,000 for the Obama campaign.)

Senator Obama's premise and credibility of not taking money from federal lobbyists hangs on a carefully crafted distinction: he is taking money, lots of it, from owners and employees of firms registered as federal lobbyists but not the actual individual lobbyists.

Source: Bankrolling a Presidential Brand;Why Wall Street Needs Obama: The Obama Bubble Agenda by Pam Martens, Counterpunch Magazine, Feb. 16-29, 2008.

Since it's Obama, not Clinton, who's running as the squeaky-clean candidate that eschews politics as usual, he has more to lose from this "vetting process" than Hillary.

And does anyone really want to see a replay of the S.C. debate, where Obama brought up Hillary's association with Walmart and Hillary responded by bringing up Obama's association with Rezco? I sincerely doubt it.


Fortune strums a mournful tune for those whose campaigns peak too soon. --Bored of the Rings
by Inky on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 05:36:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Has Hillary Clinton really been 'vetted' as sh (2.00 / 1)

Uprated.


No Way. No How. No McCain.
by Denny Crane on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 10:39:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Thank Goodness BHO donated his Norman Hsu $$$ (2.00 / 2)

after firt refusing to return it.
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2007/8/30/ 125417/146
by sgary on Thu Mar 06, 2008 at 01:08:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thank Goodness BHO donated his Norman Hsu $$$ (2.00 / 2)

That's a great point. I had forgotten about that.


Fortune strums a mournful tune for those whose campaigns peak too soon. --Bored of the Rings
by Inky on Thu Mar 06, 2008 at 10:51:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Has Hillary Clinton really been 'vetted' as sh (none / 0)

"People have simply heard so much about the Clintons at this point that they have no interest in going there."

That's my chief concern about Hillary's candidacy.  It may not be fair, but people just take it for granted that the Clintons are shady at best.  Maybe it won't matter this year.  Maybe they can just tear John McCain down too.  I guess that would be better than the Republicans winning again.  Those kool-aid drinkers, myself included, were hoping for a little more though.


by the mollusk on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 06:31:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Clinton campaign FEC numbers (none / 0)

Bill Clinton's various '92 and '96 campaign committees still owe $319,630, according to the FEC.

They've got $13,128 cash on hand, too, for what, I don't know.


by wanderindiana on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 05:15:00 PM EST

re (2.00 / 1)

LOL Obama's arrogant run from the Illinois state senate to the White House is doing wonders for the Republican Parties chances.


by rossinatl on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 05:19:40 PM EST

reality check.. (2.00 / 0)

Both Hillary and Obama are big state Senators running for the White House. Don't blame Obama for the fact he got there a lot sooner then she did.


by JoeCoaster on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 05:32:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: reality check.. (2.00 / 3)

Hillary is on her second term.  Obama hasn't even finished his first!


by JustJennifer on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 05:38:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: reality check.. (none / 0)

You're kidding right....Hillary did not serve a full first term for crying out loud.
         2000 .vs. 2004
That's it!
by JoeCoaster on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 05:50:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: reality check.. (2.00 / 1)

Hillary's first term ran 2001-2006. Obama served 2005-2006 prior to getting into the presidential race...she served one full term before running for president, he served 1/3 term before getting into the presidential race.


by Alice in Florida on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 06:47:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: reality check.. (2.00 / 1)

BS Hillary has been elected to the Senate TWICE.  You need to check your facts.


by JustJennifer on Thu Mar 06, 2008 at 11:26:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

What's more arrogant... (2.00 / 1)

... than Hillary, the Inevitable One, telling George Stephanopoulos months ago that, "It will be over by February 5?"


by Bob Johnson on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 05:34:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What's more arrogant... (2.00 / 1)

Your arrogancy in not being reasonable that campaigns change. Are you saying that Obama has never had to shift gears? I believe I hear them right now.


by Soitgoes on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 05:40:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What's more arrogant... (2.00 / 1)

What happened?


by Bob Johnson on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 07:09:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Don't (2.00 / 2)

Senators have to release financial disclousure every year they are in the senate? Doesn't that kind of make this who think about the tax returns meaningless? If there was something there the repubs would have found it by now.

Also, has Obama released all financial info from 2002 forward?


by americanincanada on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 05:49:28 PM EST

Re: Don't (2.00 / 1)

2006 at least.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/polit ics/chi-070416obama-tax,0,445005.story

Now where's Clinton's 2006 return?


by NewOaklandDem on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 07:03:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Don't (none / 0)

The Senate financial statements do not have the same level of detail as the tax returns.


by mainelib on Thu Mar 06, 2008 at 07:24:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Oh Bob. (2.00 / 6)

My day wouldn't be complete without one of your cheery missives.  Predictable as the sunrise.  It's so good to hear from the folks at DailyBarackos on a regular basis, since I am on hiatus for a bit.

The thing about past allegations, and the ones you bring up, is that they have been looked into, and nothing incriminating was found.  If there had been, we wouldn't be here, would we?  The VRWC just throws stuff at the Clintons, out of habit I think by now, in hopes that occasionally something will stick.  The sex scandals did, but as for the rest, not so much...


No politician ever lost an election because he underestimated the intelligence of the American public. - PT Barnum, paraphrased...
by jarhead5536 on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 05:52:02 PM EST

"vetted" (