Push Back Sister - We're Right There With You!

Some of you might have heard... more than a few of Obama's followers are calling on Hillary to give up her fight for the chance to take on McCain in the general election this year.  That effort to push Hillary to the sidelines has pissed off millions of her supporters, and even a few fence sitters.  For instance, Bill Press just posted this on HuffPo today...

Should Obama Drop Out of The Race?

What's going on? The party is blessed with two of the best candidates ever to run for president. The party's making history with the first African-American and the first woman having a serious shot at the presidency. In every state, the Democratic primary is attracting record numbers of new voters and building a huge, new pool of Democrats that will benefit all Democratic candidates in November. And how do party leaders respond? By trying to shut down the primary. This is insane!

True, even if she wins every delegate in every remaining primary, Clinton can not reach the magic 2024 delegates necessary to secure the nomination. But neither can Obama. True, Obama leads in delegates, the number of states won, and popular vote. But Clinton leads in electoral votes.

It's not over yet so let the process continue.

There's been many a boxing match where one fighter won 14 rounds, only to get knocked out in the 15th.

All these Obama supporters calling on Clinton to drop out aren't helping their candidate, either. They make Obama look like he's afraid of a fight. And they themselves look like a stereotypical bunch of men telling a woman she can't hack it in politics, so she might as well get back in the kitchen.

So let the primaries continue and let the voters decide. If Obama ends up the nominee, I'll do handstands on the White House lawn. But only if he wins it, fair and square.

The AP put out a great article today about how this push to drive Hillary out of this contest is getting the attention of a lot of women and they say push back Hillary!

Women push back on calls for Clinton to exit

NEW ALBANY, Ind. -- Debra Starks has heard the calls for Hillary Clinton to quit the presidential race, and she's not happy about it.

The 53-year old Wal-Mart clerk, so bedecked with Clinton campaign buttons most days that friends call her ''Button Lady,'' thinks sexism is playing a role in efforts to push the New York senator from the race. Starks wants Clinton to push back.

''The way I look at it, she's a strong woman and she needs to stay in there. She needs to fight,'' Starks said at a Clinton campaign rally. ``If you want to be president, you have to fight for what you want. If she stays in there and does what she's supposed to do, I think she'll be on her way.''

She almost certainly will end the primary season narrowly trailing Obama in the popular vote and among pledged delegates unless the nullified primaries in Florida and Michigan are counted -- an unlikely scenario at best. But Obama is unlikely to end the race with the 2,024 pledged delegates needed to win outright either, meaning the nominee will be determined by roughly 800 ''superdelegates' ' -- elected officials and party insiders who can back whichever candidate they want.

Now Big Tent Democrat (over at Talk Left) shows us just how it's entirely possible for Hillary to gain control of the Credentials Committee this summer so there's a very good chance that (barring a new vote) the Michigan and Florida delegations will be seated at our party `s convention in August.  Check out what he has to say at the above link.  Ok now back to that AP article...

But Clinton advisors believe many superdelegates remain at least persuadable, due in no small part to the influence of women voters on the party and in the general election.

''My e-mail is bursting with women who are furious, and it's grown in the last week,'' said Ann Lewis, Clinton's director of women's outreach and a longtime Democratic activist

''These women are the volunteer infrastructure of the Democratic Party who've been proud to support Democratic officials for what they believe and stand for,'' Lewis said. ``They are very angry that people they've worked for so hard would be so dismissive of Hillary and, by extension, of them and what they value.''

Indeed, the gender gap in most of the primaries thus far has been stark.

In California, Clinton bested Obama by a margin of 59 percent to 36 percent among women. She beat him by 54 percent to 45 percent among women in Ohio, an important general election battleground state.

Remember his "your likable enough, Hillary" crack during the NH debate?  Many credit that little quip with the push Hillary got in the final few days before the NH primary.  In his ever-gracious (retch!) attitude toward Hillary, BO's kindly consented to allow Hillary to continue in her pursuit of the Democratic nomination with the following declaration...

''My attitude is Senator Clinton can run as long as she wants,'' Obama said in Pennsylvania, which holds its primary April 22.

A lot of folks have yet to vote in all this gang - millions of voters still want to have their say and after Pennsylvania's primary has come and gone, 9 more states will weigh in.  And if BO keeps up with this condescending BS he's going to push a lot of women to the point of not only voting for Hillary, but actively supporting her with their hard-earned $ and their precious time.

Clinton insists she's in it to the end, saying a ''spirited contest'' is good for the party and ultimately will produce a stronger nominee.

''There are millions of reasons to continue this race: people in Pennsylvania, Indiana and North Carolina, and all of the contests yet to come,'' she told reporters Friday in Hammond, Ind. ``This is a very close race and clearly I believe strongly that everyone should have their voices heard and their votes counted.''

Campaigning across the state Saturday, Clinton was greeted by large, heavily female crowds that shouted ''You go, sister!'' and ''We've got your back!'' in support of her pioneering candidacy. Indiana votes May 6.

Marie Wilson, president of the White House Project that trains women to run for office, noted that women typically have rallied around Clinton when she's appeared most vulnerable...

''Women have always been asked to step aside if it was somehow for the greater good. In this case, Clinton, and a lot of her female supporters, clearly feel that she would make the better president and that it would not be for the greater good for her to step aside,'' Wilson said.

Dr. Maya Angelou posted something to Hillary's blog this afternoon in celebration of Women's History month - check it out...

Celebrating Women: A Note from Dr. Maya Angelou
by Dr. Maya Angelou

This entry is part of a series in celebration of Women's History Month.

You may write me down in history
With your bitter, twisted lies,
You may trod me in the very dirt
But still, like dust, I'll rise.

This is not the first time you have seen Hillary Clinton seemingly at her wits end, but she has always risen, always risen, much to the dismay of her adversaries and the delight of her friends.

Hillary Clinton will not give up on you and all she asks of you is that you do not give up on her.

There is a world of difference between being a woman and being an old female. If you're born a girl, grow up, and live long enough, you can become an old female. But, to become a woman is a serious matter. A woman takes responsibility for the time she takes up and the space she occupies.

Hillary Clinton is a woman. She has been there and done that and has still risen. She is in this race for the long haul. She intends to make a difference in our country.

She is the prayer of every woman and man who long for fair play, healthy families, good schools, and a balanced economy.

She declares she wants to see more smiles in the families, more courtesies between men and women, more honesty in the marketplace. Hillary Clinton intends to help our country to what it can become.

She means to rise.

She means to help our country rise. Don't give up on her, ever.

In fact, if you help her to rise, you will rise with her and help her make this country a wonderful, wonderful place where every man and every woman can live freely without sanctimonious piety, without crippling fear.

Rise Hillary.

Rise.

Here's the poem she started out her post with (one of my favorites).STILL I RISE.

Hillary sent a note around to all of her supporters this afternoon to thank us for all we've done, and to ask us to help her meet her fundraising goal of $3 million by midnight tonight.  

You have spoken loud and clear over the past few days with a tremendous show of support. Your actions are drowning out the voices calling for this race to come to an end, and I am truly touched that you are so committed to our campaign.

Now we have just a few hours left before our midnight fundraising deadline. This is our last chance to show our strength in the midst of the onslaught from our opponent who wants this race to end before millions of Americans have their say.

Together we are going to keep fighting and winning. But first we need to show that we have the resources to compete vigorously in the upcoming races, and I'm depending on you for that support.

I wish you and I could share some of the experiences I'm having on the campaign together. But I recorded a special video message for you on the trail recently, and I hope you'll take a look.

Click here to watch the video and make a contribution to show our strength by our critical midnight deadline. (video after note).

We're just short of reaching our $3 million goal by the end of the month -- your contribution could be the one that puts us over the top.

Thank you so much for all you have done and continue to do -- on to victory!

Thank you for everything,

Hillary Rodham Clinton

She needs our help gang - right now - so she can keep up this fight through to the convention.  If you believe in what she's doing - if you want to see her out there asking for votes in the last 10 contests then she's got to have the money to go toe to tow with Obama in ad buys and all the other stuff that goes into campaigns like this.

Help her out - dig deep and send her whatever you can.

DONATE

Thanks!



Display:


Help Her Out Guys! (2.00 / 19)

She gets out there and fights for us every single day.

Now show her you've got her back!


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 10:51:17 PM EST

Re: Help Her Out Guys! (2.00 / 11)

Here's the link...

DONATE TO HILLARY NOW!

You know what to do ;o)


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 10:52:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Electoral votes? (1.25 / 8)

Where do you come up with Hillary leads in electoral votes?  Their are no electoral votes in the Democratic primary. Great cut and paste job though. I've noticed this is what most of your diaries consist of.


by lion king on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:10:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Electoral votes? (2.00 / 4)

http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Cl inton/Maps/Mar24.html
http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Ob ama/Maps/Mar24.html

survey USA had another one but I don't have that link


by del on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 02:19:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Electoral votes? (none / 0)

This is all projection and HIGHLY debateable. Hillary can win Florida but Barack can't ? LOL!
By the same token, Barack has better shot at Texas than Hillary ?!?

This is comical.


A PROUD Hopium user!
by xodus1914 on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:26:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Electoral votes? (2.00 / 3)

"great cut and paste job though"

I notice this is what much of your critical analysis amounts to...


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Harry S Truman
by Tennessean on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 07:59:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Trying To Shove Hillary Out (2.00 / 2)

Trying to Shove Hillary Out

WASHINGTON -- Have you noticed something similar about those Barack Obama campaign surrogates and the media soothsayers who have started a drum-beat to force Hillary Clinton out of the Democratic presidential contest? Hint: They tend to share a certain anatomical attribute.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/article s/2008/04/the_men_try_to_shove_hillary_o .html


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Harry S Truman
by Tennessean on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 08:05:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Trying To Shove Hillary Out (2.00 / 1)

Oh. right. It's men.

In fact, there are many, many women supporting Obama.  And Obama won the majority of women in plenty of states.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 08:18:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Trying To Shove Hillary Out (2.00 / 2)

Hillary Clinton has a 21 percentage point edge over Obama with white female voters. She has carried them in most states, even in Wisconsin and Virginia, though by smaller margins in those two states.

She overwhelmingly won the female vote in Ohio and Texas.

She routinely gets 2/3rds of latina/hispanic women's votes.

She earns 20% of black female voters.

Women constitute 54% of the voters. Sen. Hillary Clinton has their support.


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Harry S Truman
by Tennessean on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:51:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Trying To Shove Hillary Out (2.00 / 1)

It depends on the state.  And even if there were a 20 point gap in every state (which there isn't), that would mean that forty percent of women don't support her.  I consider that plenty of women.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:59:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Trying To Shove Hillary Out (2.00 / 1)

So in essence what you are saying is that Black Woman don't count as woman?


by FinneganOregon on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 12:00:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Trying To Shove Hillary Out (2.00 / 2)

Obama supporters urged Edwards to drop out as well, so what did that have to do with?  Last time I checked, he wasn't a woman.


by Ellinorianne on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 05:00:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Trying To Shove Hillary Out (none / 0)

There's a difference between supporting Obama and trying to push Clinton out of the race. For whatever reason, most of the people trying to push her out are men.

As for Obama winning the majority of women in some states, my understanding is that this generally happens in states with large African American populations, no, in which he takes a huge majority of the African American women vote? In this case, while he does take a majority of women, it's merely a side effect of a completely different reason.


by OrangeFur on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 07:43:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Trying To Shove Hillary Out (none / 0)

What are your implying about the anatomy of Nancy Pelosi and Donna Brazille?
by xtrarich on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 09:17:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Trying To Shove Hillary Out (2.00 / 1)

I have not seen where either of them said she should get out. They have said they would like it to be resolved in June but that is not the same as saying she should get out.


by del on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 03:07:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Trying To Shove Hillary Out (none / 0)

Please don't do this - it demeans you and your candidate, and will only come back to bite you in the but.


by interestedbystander on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:11:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Help Her Out Guys! (2.00 / 2)

Staying in for the remaining 10 contests is all good. I would just hope that both candidates keep the kitchen sink in the kitchen . . . and spend a little more time on 100-year war McCain. I think the party elders will calm down if they see both sides join in a 2-front war on McBush. We need to adjust our game of "chicken" (Just posted diary about it), and put McCain in the middle :o)
NO 100 year WAR, NO McConnell run Senate, & NO GOP-led Supreme Court!!!
by Veteran75 on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 10:58:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Fence sitter? (1.00 / 1)

Bill Press has not been "on the fence" for months. He's a full blown Clintonite. Like Mark Green of AAR, he just pretends to be objective.


Your old role is rapidly aging. Please get out of the new one if you can't lend a hand, for the times they are a changing.
by Travis Stark on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 10:53:37 PM EST

Re: Fence sitter? (2.00 / 1)

I've felt that that was pretty clear, as well.

Not that I'm bothered by it, and not that it invalidates his points.  But just because one hasn't endorsed doesn't make one a "fence sitter."


Torture me once, shame on you; torture me and get away with it, shame on us all.
by freedom78 on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 10:56:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fence sitter? (none / 0)

I actually have a lot more respect for someone who admits their bias than one who protests they are objective while campaigning for one candidate or another.


Your old role is rapidly aging. Please get out of the new one if you can't lend a hand, for the times they are a changing.
by Travis Stark on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 10:59:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fence sitter? (2.00 / 1)

I think all journalists should try to maintain objectivity, whether they support something or not and whether that support is public or not.  

A lot has been made of those who have a preference lacking objectivity, but it's possible to act objectively while having a personal preference.  

A lot FAIL to do so...but it's possible.


Torture me once, shame on you; torture me and get away with it, shame on us all.
by freedom78 on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 11:03:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fence sitter? (none / 0)

It certainly is possible. Some do it reasonably well. Some, like Press and Green, are awful at it and shouldn't even bother.


Your old role is rapidly aging. Please get out of the new one if you can't lend a hand, for the times they are a changing.
by Travis Stark on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 11:32:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fence sitter? (2.00 / 6)

I just go by what they say in their post.  Think I'm going to have to go with what he says - sorry.


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 10:58:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fence sitter? (2.00 / 6)

alegre - beautiful post - i diaried about the press article earlier and heard the same retorts!  in any case - lets get out the cash for our girl y'all!


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that word I reach for my feather Boa!" -- Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 11:09:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fence sitter? (none / 0)

I assume then that you've never accused Josh Marshall, CNN or MSNBC of having a horse in this race, because they all claim to be unbiased as well.  (Hell, toss in Faux News while you're at it)


by bawbie on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:08:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Substantiate? (2.00 / 2)

Wow, I never knew that. I know he doesn't drool at the throne of Obama-ness. Anything to substantiate what you've stated?


by durendal on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 11:37:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

But (2.00 / 1)

You just substantiated it yourself: "he doesn't drool at the throne of Obama-ness".

;-)


Re-elect the President in 2012
by DemAC on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 05:59:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Push Back Sister - (2.00 / 7)

Thanks alegre! Well said.


by durendal on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 10:53:46 PM EST

Re: Push Back Sister - (2.00 / 6)

My pleasure ;o)


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 10:58:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Push Back Sister - We're Right There With You! (2.00 / 1)

I know Guy and Stephanie Johnson(Maya's son and daughter in law) and they are HUGE Obama supporters.  What is also interesting is that Maya would be fine with Barack as the nominee adn would support him as much as she can. Can we say the same of you Alegre?


by Hopeful08 on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 10:54:19 PM EST

Re: Push Back Sister - We're Right There With You! (2.00 / 1)

I would assume so.  As an Obama supporter, I will support Hillary enthusiastically if she is the nominee.


by mefck on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 10:57:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Push Back Sister - We're Right There With You! (2.00 / 2)

I have come around in recent weeks, and am ready to battle McCain with either DEM. My motivation to donate money and volunteer is higher for one candidate, but my desire to elect a DEM is constantly high. Ruth Bader Ginsburg may leave the court, and WE NEED Obama or HRC to fill that vacancy!
NO 100 year WAR, NO McConnell run Senate, & NO GOP-led Supreme Court!!!
by Veteran75 on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 11:01:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You know what they say about A-S-S-U-M-E (1.33 / 3)

Assuming the same from the Hillary supporters here is not a wise bet. It's her or McSame, the country be damned. Just ask 'em!


by jwolf on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 11:02:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Push Back Sister - We're Right There With You! (2.00 / 7)

Cut the crap Hope.

I know you've been around long enough to have seen my repeated posts saying I'll support our nominee.


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 11:01:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Push Back Sister - We're Right There With You! (2.00 / 5)

they know you and i and all of us have repeatedly said they'll support the nominee. they just keep asking every few days. just like their candidate- no integrity.


by campskunk on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 11:07:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Push Back Sister - We're Right There With You! (2.00 / 5)

Well, when they've got nothin' positive to say about their own candidate, I guess that's all they've got left right?


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 11:14:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Push Back Sister - We're Right There With You! (none / 0)

Have you seen some of you diaries? I'm not the only one who doesn't seem to have a lot of HOPE that you would support Obama. I'm just saying.


by Hopeful08 on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 11:19:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Push Back Sister - We're Right There With You! (none / 0)

You take to empty terminology like a fish does water don't you?


by msharp on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 04:30:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Push Back Sister - We're Right There With You! (2.00 / 2)

alegre, unlike some of the creeps on the Rec list at the moment, has been very, very clear on this. She may be pissed as hell at how Clinton is getting treated (and fair enough), but she has made it very clear she is a rock solid Dem.


by alephnul on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 11:32:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Push Back Sister - We're Right There With You! (2.00 / 2)

So bizarre.  This reminds of another similar post over the weekend.  Why do some women voters take any suggestion that Clinton should get out of the race for the good of the party (because her incredibly slim chances of winning are not worth the damage her continued candidacy is doing to the party) to be a sexist attack on women as a whole?


by XoFalconXo on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 10:57:41 PM EST

I am so sick of the bad for the party crap (2.00 / 9)

You and your friends have no faith in my party at all.  I've been a dem all my life and I believe our party can survive a lot worse than an honest primary contest in which some of us get overly pissed off.

Give it a rest.  She ain't a quitter.


I didn't believe in god before the primaries and I still don't.
by NewHampster on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 11:00:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I am so sick of the bad for the party crap (1.62 / 8)

I've been a Democrat all my life as well.  The fact is she is very little chance of winning and is fracturing the party.  Will the party recover?  Of course.  But in time for November?  I'm not so sure.  Between now and August, it would be nice if the presumptive nominee could spend his time and resources going after McBush.


by XoFalconXo on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 11:04:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I am so sick of the bad for the party crap (2.00 / 0)

Hey!  What do you know?  I've been troll-rated by a troll.


by XoFalconXo on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 11:12:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I am so sick of the bad for the party crap (2.00 / 4)

Very little chance?

Try reading something other than BO's website or listening to something other than tweety's show.

She's still very much in this race. NEITHER of them can get to the nomination with just the raw vote.  They're both going to need supers and at this point it's anybody's game.


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 11:25:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I am so sick of the bad for the party crap (1.33 / 3)

Thats a bogus meme and you know it.  Of course neither of them can get to a majority without superdelegates.  But that is saying nothing at all.

In order to advance that argument you have to come up with some sort of reasonable rationale as to why the remaining superdelegates will break overwhelmingly for Clinton.  I understand that you'll argue that "she is more electable" and "she won more big states."  But really, be objective for a moment.  Do you really think those arguments are going to carry the day over the guy who won the most pledged delegates/popular votes?


by XoFalconXo on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 11:37:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I am so sick of the bad for the party crap (2.00 / 3)

If it was over the remaining SDs would have already declared.
They haven't.
Why?
Cause it's not over.
by J Rae on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:56:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I am so sick of the bad for the party crap (2.00 / 0)

But they are declaring, more and more every day.  Or have you missed the story that Obama has closed the superdelegate by about 65 since Super Tuesday?


by XoFalconXo on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 08:30:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I am so sick of the bad for the party crap (2.00 / 1)

Why even argue this?

I'm an Obama supporter, and I want Hillary Clinton to stay in.  And I hope both candidates keep it clean.


by Mostly on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 10:52:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I am so sick of the bad for the party crap (none / 0)

Why argue anything?  I want her to drop out.


by XoFalconXo on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 10:56:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I am so sick of the bad for the party crap (2.00 / 0)

The long primary season is not bad for the party, it's energizing it and voter registration is increasing by the tens of thousands. Check out the latest in Pennsylvania.

No matter who these new voters vote for, they'll vote Democratic. Doesn't sound like a disaster to me.

Rise, Hillary, Rise!


The world cannot survive four more years of Bush.
by madamab on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:26:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I am so sick of the bad for the party crap (none / 0)

And I think everyone missed the point of your question, which I thought was valid...

Why is it considered sexist to want Hillary to drop out sooner rather than later?  If the math continues to work against her, why is that sexist?  Because she's a woman?  Is this the same mastery of stupidity that brings accusations of racism and sexism out of every fold every time there is criticism of one of the two candidates?


"If you ever post anything on that website again, I will shove a motherboard so far up your a$$...!" C.J Cregg
by JenKinFLA on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 04:27:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I am so sick of the bad for the party crap (none / 0)

I think so. And I think if either loses the nomination at this point because they couldn't overcome sexism or racism then they're not worthy of the nomination. It's a test of this contest for sure. As they are the finalists, the nomination is theirs to lose.

I expect a lot of whining and blaming racism or sexism after the nominee is chosen by supporters of the loser.

It's fair to call it out, but at this point the candidates must prove themselves to be bigger than these issues and not dispose of valid and sincere arguments by replacing them with specious victimization.

It's ironic that many argue against electibility based on the race or gender of the opposition candidate while at the same time crying victim of the bias.


by fisheye on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 10:47:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I am so sick of the bad for the party crap (none / 0)

But tweety says he's doesn't have a horse in this race, and per your post upthread on Bill Press, we should take him at his word!!!

The truth is that Hillary HAS to win two-thirds of the elected delegates left to come into a tie in elected delegates.

The truth is also that superdelegates are NOT (not that they can't, they just won't) going to overturn the leader in elected delegates.

The only path from here to the nomination for Hillary is a "dead girl/live boy"-type scandal for Obama, and the truth is that would result in a Hillary nomination regardless of whether she dropped out today or not.

So, yes, those odds are a "very little chance" of her being the nominee.

My personal opinion is that she has every right to stay in, but once the race reaches the point where one candidate has very little to no chance at the nomination, it is incumbent upon them to explain how staying in helps the long-term prospects of the party.  


by bawbie on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:15:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Push Back Sister - We're Right There With You! (1.88 / 9)

I'm sorry but anyone who thinks that the calls for Hillary to drop out have anything to do with what's best for our party are kididng themselves.

This is about fear - fear that Hillary will beat their candidate badly in PA and the states that follow.  Fear that she'll catch up enough to convince all those super delegates to back her instead of their guy.

Every time they call for her to step aside it tells me one thing...

They don't think their guy has what it takes to go the distance.


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 11:04:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Push Back Sister - We're Right There With You! (2.00 / 2)

You're right; it is about fear.  But not in the way you're suggesting.  I fear that for the next 5 months, McCain will have the opportunity to raise tons of cash and attack and define our nominee, with nary an effective response because of the ongoing nomination campaing.  All so Clinton can pursue her 1% chance, hail-mary, hole-in-one shot and, presumably, boost her own damn ego.


by XoFalconXo on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 11:10:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Push Back Sister - We're Right There With You! (2.00 / 5)

So why hasn't BO dropped out?
For the Good of the Party and all that.

by J Rae on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 01:01:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Because he is ahead/ there are only 10 states left (2.00 / 1)

He has more popular votes, pledged delegates, won more states, etc. Does that clear it up for you?


by TMP on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 07:25:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Because he is ahead (2.00 / 6)

And we all know that he'll win those same states in the GE, right? Utah and Wyoming will go blue, will they?

And we are all unconcerned that his wins are mostly small caucuses and not large primaries, right?

And we are all happy as clams that that count doesn't include Michigan and Florida, right?

And we all just love that Obama seems to be afraid to face the voters of Pennsylvania, West Virginia, Kentucky, which of course he won't have to do in the GE, right?

The American people are still undecided. Let all our voices be heard.


The world cannot survive four more years of Bush.
by madamab on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:33:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Because he is ahead (none / 0)

Afraid to face the voters?  You are delusional.  In fact he faced a record breaking crowd of 22,000 in PA earlier this week.  If Obama has a problem at all, it is not having enough time to face enough voters.  Everywhere he campaigns he cuts into HRC's support.


by interestedbystander on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:24:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Push Back Sister - We're Right There With You! (2.00 / 1)

I think if they BOTH attack John McCain the way the should be doing, it won't be a problem.


by Mostly on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 10:54:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Push Back Sister - We're Right There With You! (none / 0)

where are you folks getting this stuff?  Have you seen the PA trend lines?  PA is going for Obama, believe it...  The best thing that could have happened for Obama is the huge amount of time between primaries;

3 weeks ago polls had HRC +20-25

2 weeks ago polls had HRC +15-20

1 weeks ago polls had HRC +10-15

Now polls have HRC +5-10

Mark my words, there will be a major speech by Hillary the day after the PA to announced her graceful withdrawl.


by HGM MA on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:41:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Push Back Sister - We're Right There With You! (2.00 / 2)

Interesting that you say "Why do some women voters..." when this diary was quoting Bill Press. Your assumption that only women see these attacks on Clinton as sexist is very telling.


by LakersFan on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 02:16:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Push, Push gimme more Bush. Or a McSame w/cheese? (none / 0)

Love the NewsMax " Should Hillary Quit?" ad with the Angry Hillary pic on this page. Is that intentional?
Seems a bit contrary to the "point" of the diary.
by jwolf on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 10:59:25 PM EST

Re: Push Back Sister - We're Right There With You! (none / 0)

Keep going! The party is not quite asunder yet.


"I hope the two wings of the Democratic Party may flap together." - William Jennings Bryan
by pinche tejano on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 11:00:12 PM EST

Re: Push Back Sister - We're Right There With You! (2.00 / 5)

I'm not slowing down and neither is Hillary.  It's all good!


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 11:06:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Push Back Sister - We're Right There With You! (2.00 / 2)

Don't mind me, I'm just up here in the Socialist Peanut Gallery giggling like a school girl.

Since you are all Hillary, all the time, maybe you can answer my question I've had all primary season:

If Hillary has such a good universal health plan, how come she hasn't introduced the bill on the Senate Floor?

Universal Health Care must come from the legislative branch, so why hasn't she introduced a her bill yet?

Especially if she has such a detailed plan?

Please let me know!


"I hope the two wings of the Democratic Party may flap together." - William Jennings Bryan
by pinche tejano on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 11:08:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Push Back Sister - We're Right There With You! (2.00 / 3)

same reason obama hasn't introduced his. well, actually, she believes hers will work, so that's not a good comparison.


by campskunk on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 11:14:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Push Back Sister - We're Right There With You! (2.00 / 1)

I don't care about Obama's plan, I like Hillary's.

Why hasn't she introduced her bill on the floor of the Senate?


"I hope the two wings of the Democratic Party may flap together." - William Jennings Bryan
by pinche tejano on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 11:19:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Push Back Sister - We're Right There With You! (2.00 / 6)

bush vetoed SCHIP expansion. what do you think he would do to universal healthcare if it came to his desk, and what do you think the consequences if trying and failing again would be?


by campskunk on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 11:34:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Push Back Sister - We're Right There With You! (2.00 / 1)

A record and bill entered.

Make the bastards veto it.

All I am saying, if she wants to grab the media and country's attention, Hillary should go down to the Senate Chambers and champion her bill.

America is ready for it.


"I hope the two wings of the Democratic Party may flap together." - William Jennings Bryan
by pinche tejano on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 11:38:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Push Back Sister - We're Right There With You! (1.50 / 2)

Push back against what? What should be certain Democratic victory in November? The near-impossibility of being the Democratic nominee?

If there were a place left for "heart" or "guts" in this race, then no one serious would count Hillary out. The fact is, there is no more place for heart. Too many have had their say. There exists only cold mathematics.

Maybe next time she runs, she should try and avoid losing every race for a month. That doesn't tend to bode well for primary campaigns.


by amiches on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 11:00:16 PM EST

are you on assignment (2.00 / 8)

or did you independently choose to troll a positive candidate diary today?
by linc on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 11:01:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

this is a positive diary? (2.00 / 1)

That is an Orwellian statement.


by TMP on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 07:21:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

50 more bucks from this guy (2.00 / 8)

kick some ass Hillary! Put a cherry on the top of Women's History Month.
by linc on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 11:00:25 PM EST

Re: Push Back Sister - We're Right There With You! (1.85 / 7)

It's over.  BO should drop out now for the good of the party.


by Caldonia on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 11:00:52 PM EST

Re: Push Back Sister - We're Right There With You! (1.40 / 5)

Yeah, but that pesky little thing called "democracy" and all. Sorry for your loss :(


by amiches on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 11:03:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The troll believes in democracy (2.00 / 8)

I am sure said troll then prefers that we don't count the undemocratic caucuses that have put Obama over the top in the delegate count? I am also sure said troll is advocating day and night for the Obama campaign to stop blocking revotes in Michigan and Pensylvania. I am also quite certain that the said troll sees the irony in calling for Hillary to drop out when over 20% of the Democratic voters in this country have yet to have their votes counted. Obama trolls for democracy! "Only when we get to say what democracy is!" And yes, much like your beloved Kos the Baptist used to be, I have always been against caucuses and for allowing MI and FL to count.
by linc on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 11:11:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

MI and FL- oops (2.00 / 4)

its been a long day.
by linc on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 11:15:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MI and FL- oops (1.33 / 3)

Hillary did not mind not seating MI and FL when she thought it was a coronation. In fact her guy, Harold Ickes made those rules.


by TMP on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 07:18:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Who cares? (2.00 / 2)

So because Hillary was OK with it, that means I should be?  She is not my ideological sponsor, just a candidate I support.


by linc on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:45:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MI and FL- oops (none / 0)

You simply cannot troll rate this comment - it is demonstrably true.  The TR abuse is getting ridiculous - read the rules, you cannot TR because you disagree. Please uprate.


by interestedbystander on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:34:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The troll believes in democracy (1.40 / 5)

The rules are the rules - you can't go changing the dimensions of the end zone just because your QB can't seem to find the thing.

You lost, fair and square. Get over it.


by amiches on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 06:19:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Push Back Sister - We're Right There With You! (2.00 / 8)


I didn't believe in god before the primaries and I still don't.
by NewHampster on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 11:05:37 PM EST

Re: Push Back Sister - We're Right There With You! (2.00 / 2)


  ....In his ever-gracious (retch!) attitude toward Hillary, BO's kindly consented to allow Hillary to continue in her pursuit of the Democratic nomination with the following declaration...

   ''My attitude is Senator Clinton can run as long as she wants,'' Obama said in Pennsylvania, which holds its primary April 22.

HOW DARE HE! The nerve of him pretending to encourage her to continue! The man knows no shame!

/snark


by jwolf on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 11:06:29 PM EST

Re: Push Back Sister - We're Right There With You! (none / 0)

It was a 'declaration' not an answer. Get it? What ever might work, try it.


by fisheye on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:12:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Push Back Sister - We're Right There With You! (2.00 / 8)

Yet another great post!
And to the trolls and naysayers- let's be really really clear- Neither candidate will have the magic number. The race is not over.

Winners never quit and quitters never win.

Go Hillary!


by ProudMilitaryMom on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 11:14:36 PM EST

Yes, but (1.50 / 2)


by corph on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 04:12:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Good diary, Alegre (2.00 / 1)

But one small qualm, Puerto Rico isn't a State it is a Territory, would you mind terribly editing it for factual correctness.

Otherwise Tipped and Recced.

I think this race is a great opportunity to build the party and allow the dem nominee to have a greater chance in the general in the red states that have demographics that favor them (IN, KY and WV for Sen. Clinton; NC, MT and SD for Sen. Obama) as well as solidify support in the blue states of Oregon and PA (I am missing one of the 9 states left but can't think of it right now.

I just wish the campaign could stay on a positive level like it has (except for the calls for Sen. Clinton to drop out they should stop even Sen Obama agrees)


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 11:19:03 PM EST

Re: Push Back Sister - We're Right There With You! (2.00 / 5)

Hillary might save the Party!


by HillaryKnight08 on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 11:32:50 PM EST

Re: Push Back Sister - We're Right There With You! (2.00 / 2)

gooooooooooooo hillary. fight till the bitter end


by art3 on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 01:05:31 AM EST

Re: Push Back Sister - We're Right There With You! (1.60 / 5)

Wow.  It's gonna get ugly around here when Hillary finally drops out. Cries of sexism mixed with conspiracy theories will be rampant.


Stop H8
by mikeinsf on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 05:44:21 AM EST

Re: Push Back Sister - We're Right There With You! (none / 0)

New Pennsylvania poll

Clinton 47%, Obama 42% (Rasmussen)

http://rasmussenreports.com/public_conte nt/politics/election_20082/2008_presiden tial_election/pennsylvania/pennsylvania_ democratic_presidential_primary


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 09:18:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Push Back Sister - the foolishness (2.00 / 3)

True, Obama leads in delegates, the number of states won, and popular vote. But Clinton leads in electoral votes.

That is, quite simply, a lie.  Clinton may have won the primaries in states with more electoral votes, but no electoral votes are awarded for primaries.  Secondly, this often repeated baloney makes the idiotic assumption that the primary victor will necessarily win those respective states or conversely, that the primary loser cannot win them in the general.  

It is a false argument.  Whatever the rationale is or is not for Hillary's continuance, Clinton is not leading in electoral votes. There is simply no basis for that claim.


Nos causidicus Obama , ergo nos non suadeo
by rb608 on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 08:55:45 AM EST

So glad you noticed BO's "allowing"... (2.00 / 4)

Hillary to stay in the race...and then all of his fanatic supporters starting talking about how gracious the guy is.  Oh, please.

I suggest a new women's movement and blog site called PUSH BACK SISTER.

The thing I notice about this campaign is the sisterhood of it all...and we even like the guys who are in it with us!


by Shazone on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 09:09:14 AM EST

feminists for Obama (2.00 / 1)

Yeah, but you don't like the women who are for Obama. Just last night someone said that they didn't think I was a feminist. Another person said that I must be a mysogynist. Yet there are major feminist leaders and writers who support a candidate who was born male; see some at http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/NYfem inistsforpeace/


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 09:13:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Feminists don't agree on everything... (2.00 / 0)

The PUSH BACK SISTER feminist movement will not appeal to those who are willing to be taken advantage of and kicked to the curb and still think they are "feminists".  I'm talking about a real feminist - like Rosie the Riverter - who is willing to put herself out for the sake of her sister when she has been/will be trashed.


by Shazone on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 09:37:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Feminists don't agree on everything... (2.00 / 1)

What a gender bully you are.

There are major feminists in the Feminists for Peace and Obama group who don't need you to give them the stamp of approval.

And I've lived through the feminist wars of the 1970s, so, sister, you have nothing on that.

I'm with Molly Ivins, who (got there before me but) I guess just doesn't have the feminist creds to pass your one item feminist test:

Molly Ivins

I will not support Hillary Clinton for president
January 20, 2006
http://www.freepress.org/columns/display /1/2006/1304

AUSTIN, Texas --- I'd like to make it clear to the people who run the Democratic Party that I will not support Hillary Clinton for president.

Enough. Enough triangulation, calculation and equivocation. Enough clever straddling, enough not offending anyone This is not a Dick Morris election. Sen. Clinton is apparently incapable of taking a clear stand on the war in Iraq, and that alone is enough to disqualify her. Her failure to speak out on Terri Schiavo, not to mention that gross pandering on flag-burning, are just contemptible little dodges.

The recent death of Gene McCarthy reminded me of a lesson I spent a long, long time unlearning, so now I have to re-learn it. It's about political courage and heroes, and when a country is desperate for leadership. There are times when regular politics will not do, and this is one of those times. There are times a country is so tired of bull that only the truth can provide relief.

If no one in conventional-wisdom politics has the courage to speak up and say what needs to be said, then you go out and find some obscure junior senator from Minnesota with the guts to do it. In 1968, Gene McCarthy was the little boy who said out loud, "Look, the emperor isn't wearing any clothes." Bobby Kennedy -- rough, tough Bobby Kennedy -- didn't do it. Just this quiet man trained by Benedictines who liked to quote poetry.

What kind of courage does it take, for mercy's sake? The majority of the American people (55 percent) think the war in Iraq is a mistake and that we should get out. The majority (65 percent) of the American people want single-payer health care and are willing to pay more taxes to get it. The majority (86 percent) of the American people favor raising the minimum wage. The majority of the American people (60 percent) favor repealing Bush's tax cuts, or at least those that go only to the rich. The majority (66 percent) wants to reduce the deficit not by cutting domestic spending, but by reducing Pentagon spending or raising taxes.

The majority (77 percent) thinks we should do "whatever it takes" to protect the environment. The majority (87 percent) thinks big oil companies are gouging consumers and would support a windfall profits tax. That is the center, you fools. WHO ARE YOU AFRAID OF?

I listen to people like Rahm Emanuel superciliously explaining elementary politics to us clueless naifs outside the Beltway ("First, you have to win elections"). Can't you even read the damn polls?

Here's a prize example by someone named Barry Casselman, who writes, "There is an invisible civil war in the Democratic Party, and it is between those who are attempting to satisfy the defeatist and pacifist left base of the party and those who are attempting to prepare the party for successful elections in 2006 and 2008."

This supposedly pits Howard Dean, Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi, emboldened by "a string of bad news from the Middle East ... into calling for premature retreat from Iraq," versus those pragmatic folk like Steny Hoyer, Rahm Emanuel, Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden and Joe Lieberman.

Oh come on, people -- get a grip on the concept of leadership. Look at this war -- from the lies that led us into it, to the lies they continue to dump on us daily.

You sit there in Washington so frightened of the big, bad Republican machine you have no idea what people are thinking. I'm telling you right now, Tom DeLay is going to lose in his district. If Democrats in Washington haven't got enough sense to OWN the issue of political reform, I give up on them entirely.

Do it all, go long, go for public campaign financing for Congress. I'm serious as a stroke about this -- that is the only reform that will work, and you know it, as well as everyone else who's ever studied this. Do all the goo-goo stuff everybody has made fun of all these years: embrace redistricting reform, electoral reform, House rules changes, the whole package. Put up, or shut up. Own this issue, or let Jack Abramoff politics continue to run your town.

Bush, Cheney and Co. will continue to play the patriotic bully card just as long as you let them. I've said it before: War brings out the patriotic bullies. In World War I, they went around kicking dachshunds on the grounds that dachshunds were "German dogs." They did not, however, go around kicking German shepherds. The MINUTE someone impugns your patriotism for opposing this war, turn on them like a snarling dog and explain what loving your country really means. That, or you could just piss on them elegantly, as Rep. John Murtha did. Or eviscerate them with wit (look up Mark Twain on the war in the Philippines). Or point out the latest in the endless "string of bad news."

Do not sit there cowering and pretending the only way to win is as Republican-lite. If the Washington-based party can't get up and fight, we'll find someone who can.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 09:49:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

So did I, sister. (2.00 / 3)

"And I've lived through the feminist wars of the 1970s, so, sister, you have nothing on that."

I was a feminist in the 1960's - have marched, yelled, donated, called, walked, voted...you have NOTHING ON ME SISTER.

And I wonder what Molly would say today in light of the bashing being dished out by Obama and the winks and nods of hIM and his supporters against women.

It's disgusting.  And if you don't see it that way, you're a different kind of feminist than me.

So be it.


by Shazone on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 10:09:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So did I, sister. (2.00 / 1)

Molly lived through much rougher politics than this - Texas politics, you know.

And, I'm with Katha Pollit.  You don't support someone because of the sort of things said against your candidate.  You support someone because you think she or he is the best candidate.

We disagree about who that is and I respect that. But I don't respect people calling people who they don't agree with some nasty names and claiming they can't be feminists, or must be anti-women.

Katha can say it better than me:
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/anotherth ing?pid=279745

Why I'm Supporting Barack Obama

"Hillary Clinton is smart, energetic, immensely knowledgeable, and, as she likes to say, hard-working. I've been appalled by the misogynous vitriol (and mean-girl snark) aimed against her. If she is the nominee I will work my heart out for her.

But right now, I'm supporting Barack Obama. On domestic politics, their differences are small-- I'm with her on health care mandates, and with him on driver's licences for undocumented immigrants; both would probably be equally good on women's rights, abortion rights and judicial appointments. But on foreign policy Obama seems more enlightened, as in less bellicose. Maybe Hillary Clinton's refusal to say her Iraq vote was wrong shows that she has neo-con sympathies; maybe she simply believes that any admission of error would tar her as weak. But we already have a warlike president who refuses to admit making mistakes, and look how that's turned out. The election of Barack Obama would send a signal to the world that the United States is taking a different tack.

Plenty of feminists support Obama, by the way. for example Kate Michelman, former head of NARAL, and Ellen Bravo of Nine to Five. I signed a letter from " New York Feminists for Peace and Barack Obama." Other signers include the historians Linda Gordon, Alice Kessler Harris and Ros Baxandall; the sociologist Judith Stacey; the political scientist Ros Petchesky,and writers Margo Jefferson and Meredith Tax."


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 10:18:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So did I, sister. (none / 0)

Catfight!  Rawr!


by LarsThorwald on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 04:35:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Feminists don't agree on everything... (1.66 / 3)

Ah, the great Molly Ivins.

I wonder how she would feel about Dick Morris, whom she rightly criticizes, being a consultant to Obama?

I wonder how she'd feel about the type of campaign Obama is running? Republican-lite is a kind way to describe it.

It's been a long time since Molly wrote that column.


The world cannot survive four more years of Bush.
by madamab on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:39:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Feminists don't agree on everything... (2.00 / 1)

Dick Morris is not a consultant to Obama.  He was a consultant to Bill Clinton and when the Democrats lost Congress, HRC successfully lobbied to bring him back into the Clinton fold.

And I don't see any Republican lite in Obama, just lots of willful misinterpretations of his statements.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 02:38:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Feminists don't agree on everything... (2.00 / 1)

And Rosie the Riveter was a character based on women's lives but a character in war mobilization ads.  

Made-up.
Fiction.
For ads.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 09:50:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Kind of like Obama. Made up. Fiction. (2.00 / 1)

Rosie represented female strength, independence and ability.

That's what the feminist movement I worked for stood for.


by Shazone on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 10:11:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Fiction? (2.00 / 1)

Right. That means that the 13 million voters who have supported him are dupes.  The women are too injured by patriarchy to understand their best interest and the men are pigs. I get it. Your sisterhood and progressivism sure are powerful.

I look forward to a future time when we can accept that we just disagree and that there is plenty we can accomplish if we work together.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 10:22:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You haven't done your homework on... (2.00 / 1)

BO - otherwise you would know that he is a front man (like Bush was for the neo-cons) for Chicago political hacks.  He's an empty suit.  A fiction.  He cannot even articulate who he is and what he believes in.

And we will agree right now to disagree.  But I will never agree to vote for Obama.

I live in Arizona so my husband and I can vote for Hillary whether she's the nominee or not.  That will give us great joy!


by Shazone on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 10:33:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You haven't done your homework on... (2.00 / 1)

I guess I'm just a dupe who hasn't done my research!

Again, I hope that we can work together to make this country better.  


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 10:53:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

We can't work together if it involves BO. (none / 0)


by Shazone on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:30:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: We can't work together if it involves BO. (2.00 / 1)

Another (must be) fake feminist for Obama
http://www.ithaca.edu/zillah/docs/resume .pdf
We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:33:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: We can't work together if it involves BO. (2.00 / 1)

And another
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con tent/article/2006/01/11/AR2006011102806. html
We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:37:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: We can't work together if it involves BO. (2.00 / 1)

And another

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_Ehr enreich


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:41:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: We can't work together if it involves BO. (2.00 / 2)

Such foolishness will get us another 4,000 killed.


by LarsThorwald on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 04:37:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Kind of like Obama. Made up. Fiction. (2.00 / 1)

Scary radical sexists like Shaz would terrify us men into supporting McCain if we thought Hil shared her hate.

But I figure Shz is like Wright and has earned her prejudice, and Hil is like Barak & doesn't share it.


by wrb on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 05:33:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Feminists don't agree on everything... (2.00 / 2)

Shazone, this contemptible attitude (that you are the decider guy regarding who is and who is not a "real feminist") is one of the reasons your candidate is behind. It's hard for me to believe you don't comprehend the damage you do with this arrogance -- far outweighing any gains. Which leaves me to conclude you're more interested in continuing to fight the culture wars than winning the presidency.


by Petey on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 01:39:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Feminists don't agree on everything... (2.00 / 1)

Spot on - HRC would not go near this with a bargepole.  It's patronising in the extreme to posit that women aren't capable of making a decision based on a whole raft of issues, and instead should just vote for the female candidate.  


by interestedbystander on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:54:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Push Back Sister - We're Right There With You! (none / 0)

I think Maya Angelou is a good writer. But what's up with the "Dr." She doesn't have an earned PhD.  Did someone give her an honorary doctorate or something?  For academics, this sort of this is silly at best, and a real stretch - unlike having someone who teaches at a university calling her/himself a professor.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 09:11:17 AM EST

Re: Push Back Sister - We're Right There With You! (2.00 / 5)

Back in the 70s, we called women who abandoned women's causes and rallied around men "male identified." Of course, now, we've outgrown such labels (sarcasm) and no longer need to examine our internalized sexism and misogyny. To all those so-called feminist who rally around Obama, as Madeleine Albright says: "There is a special place in hell for women who don't help other women." Feminist for Obama is just another oxymoron in the oxymoronic campaign of "change we can believe in." GO HILLARY!
by aroundtheblock on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:02:20 AM EST

Re: Push Back Sister - We're Right There With You! (2.00 / 1)

My university has a very active women's studies program and the young women in it think this sort of thing is a joke.

Women telling other women what is the PC feminist thing to think? Please. That went out in the 70s, along with the dungarees.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:23:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Push Back Sister - We're Right There With You! (2.00 / 2)

May you be blessed with many daughters.
by aroundtheblock on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 01:45:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Push Back Sister - We're Right There With You! (2.00 / 1)

I have been so blessed - both my own and the wonderful women students I have now and who have graduated and keep in touch.  They are wonderful!

(And I meant to refer to "overalls" not "dungarees" in my sentence above.  Remember those from the 1970s feminists, who used to fight with the lipstick lesbians?  We had fights over what clothing was PC to wear then, all sorts of other important topics, while building feminist organizations that have endured.)


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 02:43:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Push Back Sister - We're Right There With You! (2.00 / 1)

Yeah. That stuff went out of style in the 70's, like the Equal Rights Amendment.

And maybe that's why women born after the 70's really have no idea what feminism is all about.


by LakersFan on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 03:42:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Push Back Sister - We're Right There With You! (2.00 / 1)

Well....plenty of them do...at least at my university.

And there's no need to put down the generation. We can all say, "Well, back in my day" as a way of ranking on them.  But, you know, they're a good generation.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 06:48:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Push Back Sister - We're Right There With You! (none / 0)

I didn't put then down. I'm saying that the defeat of ERA and backlash against feminism resulted in them growing up in a much less equality-minded and more chauvinistic world. Their politics and views about "feminism" were shaped by these events.


by LakersFan on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 07:07:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Push Back Sister - We're Right There With You! (2.00 / 2)

There isn't the excitement about feminism that there was in the 1970s, but, again, these young women DO get it. They have grown up in a world that has told them that they can do any job they want, that sexual harassment is wrong, and where there are laws and programs to protect women that didn't exist years ago and that my generation fought to put into place. They breathe more equality more freely than I did at their age.  And they are eager and open and ready to take on the world to make it even better.

By the way, Friedan's Feminine Mystique is still a big hit.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 09:37:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Push Back Sister - We're Right There With You! (none / 0)

Yes, they've grown up in a world with laws and programs to protect women (which are great advances, don't me wrong). But that doesn't mean that they really "get" what feminism is about and the struggles that women still face. Life in the real world isn't necessarily as fair and equality minded as what you learn in school (for women or minorities).


by LakersFan on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 03:11:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Push Back Sister - We're Right There With You! (2.00 / 1)

By the way, if you want to read a really good book on the ERA, my favorite ERA book is "Why We Lost the ERA" by Jane Mansbridge. She wrote it when she was a professor at Northwestern but she's now at Harvard. Mansbridge also wrote a fabulous book on participatory democracy and one of the case studies is about a grassroots feminist organization. She's also a superb teacher and mentor.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 06:50:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Push Back Sister - We're Right There With You! (2.00 / 1)

I just can't get over the irony of her last name.


by LakersFan on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 07:08:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

God Bless Madeleine Albright! (2.00 / 0)


by Shazone on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:32:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: God Bless Madeleine Albright! (2.00 / 1)

Who did nothing to help the women of Afghanistan who were being terrorized by the Taliban.  Feminist groups tried to vain to get the State Dept to speak out on this issue, but it never did.  Why?


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:39:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Push Back Sister - We're Right There With You! (none / 0)

God how patronising you sound.


by interestedbystander on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:45:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

As if (2.00 / 3)

''My attitude is Senator Clinton can run as long as she wants,'' Obama said in Pennsylvania, which holds its primary April 22.

she needs his or anyone else's permission.  


by joanneleon on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 04:27:45 PM EST

Re: As if (1.66 / 6)

Ugh.  He's not giving her permission.  He was answering a question about the calls for her to drop out, not solicitously giving his "permission" for free.  And in his answer he made it clear that his supporters should dial it back and chill because she can run, and run hard, and that's her decision.  Relax.

Everyone is so fucking wound up, making snap judgments three minutes after getting information.  

It's not a fucking football game or a goddamned golf match.  

Everyone here who cares about progressive and/or Democratic ideals and principles better put their grown-up hats on, no matter who wins the nomination, and support the nominee, because your pettiness and refusal to rally behind the eventual nominee will not only hand McCain the Supreme Court and the army, but it will probably get more Americans killed.

Grow the fuck up.    


by LarsThorwald on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 04:41:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: As if (2.00 / 1)

How ironic that you complain about everyone getting "so fucking wound up" while you are clearly ranting and throwing insults.

I have the right to interpret what he said.  I saw the clip numerous times and I interpreted his words and body language differently than you did.  


by joanneleon on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 05:22:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

his permission is irrelevant. (none / 0)

She has mastered the fine art of failure and self-humiliation all on her own.


by rabidnation on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 07:02:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: his permission is irrelevant. (none / 0)

Just as Obama has, and every other politician.


by joanneleon on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 07:30:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Women shouldn't decide (2.00 / 1)

who to vote for because they think someone's feelings got hurt.  Really?

And if BO keeps up with this condescending BS he's going to push a lot of women to the point of not only voting for Hillary, but actively supporting her with their hard-earned $ and their precious time.

Obama was this way with Edwards and it has more with him maintaining an attitude of a winner not a whiner.

Why perpetuate the sympathy vote it only hurts women in politics, not helps?  


by Ellinorianne on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 04:56:40 PM EST

Women shouldn't decide (2.00 / 1)

who to vote for because they think someone's feelings got hurt.  Really?

And if BO keeps up with this condescending BS he's going to push a lot of women to the point of not only voting for Hillary, but actively supporting her with their hard-earned $ and their precious time.

Obama was this way with Edwards and it has more with him maintaining an attitude of a winner not a whiner.

Why perpetuate the sympathy vote it only hurts women in politics, not helps?  

I went to a women's college and if someone told me they would vote for me because they felt badly or that they felt the boys were pushing me around, I'd tell them to keep their vote.


by Ellinorianne on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 04:58:11 PM EST

Re: Push Back Sister - We're Right There With You! (none / 0)

"I think Maya Angelou is a good writer. But what's up with the "Dr."
Where on Amazon can I buy your poetry?
Is a "good writer"?...good?
I am sure you discount Maya as some kind of Obamabot.

Cool..


"If you want to end war and stuff, you gotta sing loud"...Arlo Guthrie
by nogo war on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 05:59:10 PM EST

Re: Push Back Sister - We're Right There With You! (none / 0)

Hey. Whatever.

But she is not a Ph.D. because she earned one - something that in English generally takes about eight years of coursework, exams, and dissertation writing.  So normally one would not use the "Dr." unless you had gotten the degree by working for your credential.  

It really is unheard of for someone with an honorary doctorate to use the "Dr." and actually most PhDs don't use it either - no matter the rank, we prefer "professor."

But I'm not at all putting her down. I think she does good work but I just wondered why anyone would add Dr., perhaps as a way to try to add credibility or something....not that she needs it for her Poet Creds.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 06:45:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Push Back Sister - We're Right There With You! (none / 0)

Oddly enough, though she may not have a Ph.D., Maya Angelou, unlike Obama, really was/is a Professor. She apparently holds the Reynolds Professorship in American Studies at Wake Forest.

So while Dr. may be colloquially inaccurate, Prof. is quite correct.


by OrangeFur on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 07:54:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Push Back Sister - We're Right There With You! (2.00 / 1)

Sure...she's a professor just like anyone who teaches at a university or college.  And she has an endowed chair/professorship as well; I wonder who endowed it.  These days you need to give $2.5 million at a minimum to endow a professorship.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 08:11:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Push Back Sister - We're Right There With You! (none / 0)

Drip Drip Drip

The Clinton Titanic is taking in water!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ixg4F-qnQ vQ


by Jeff Y on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 06:15:20 PM EST

Re: Push Back Sister - We're Right There With You! (none / 0)

How inspiring!  Wonderful diary.  I love Maya Angelou!!!


by Larissa on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 06:54:26 PM EST

I agree, she should stay in. (1.00 / 2)

Every day that she's sucking up money from those who don't recognize a dead-fish candidacy when they see one, every day that she or her supporters bleat forth some idiotic new canard about how she "can still win," is another day that I am provided with high comedy.

The longer she stays in, the more painful and humiliating her ultimate defeat will be. Which is just the way I like it.


by rabidnation on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 06:59:57 PM EST

Charming n/t (2.00 / 1)


by joanneleon on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 07:33:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I agree, she should stay in. (none / 0)

Once again you make your candidate proud.


by OrangeFur on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 07:48:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

ADMINISTRATION? (none / 0)

Why are Obama supporters okay with their fellow supporters acting like this?  Once upon a time you all claimed to be part of a new, higher form of politcs but people chastise Hillary supporters from within, and Obama supporters haven't successfully done that.  

Kos is a place where this is very, very welcome.  Why don't you enjoy

1) thread hijacking

  1. massive pile on of insults hurled at a positive Hillary diary (sometimes called gang banging)
  2. and the pile on of admin attacks with the usual charges of racism or some other trumped up bogus charge (yesterday)

Over there.

4) and let's remember, that it all leads to REAL LIFE stalking like the death threats and nasty attacks from Obama supporters of Mayor Nutter today.

I think Alegre and other great diarists are getting the same thuggish online stalking over here totally imported from Kos who taught you, helped you, and tolerated you so well--tactics once again part of another REAL LIFE stalker problem with Mayor Nutter.

I hope Admin. tries to deal with you.


by chieflytrue on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 08:00:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ADMINISTRATION? (2.00 / 4)

I am an Obama supporter who has commented on this thread.  I have not insulted anyone but was insulted myself, called a woman-hater and a myogynist. When I explained that I am a feminist, people said that they doubted that.

There is no stalking here. It is called discussion. I am a feminist of long-standing and have done a lot of feminist work and I don't happen to support Clinton. I started out supporting her and switched in January of this year. And I don't appreciate the line that I am a gender traitor for my position, nor the implication that I am a stalker because I present my position.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 09:26:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Reality Chec k (none / 0)

If a charismatic woman had run against Gore in the Democratic primaries in 2000 and bested him, many who now regard Obama as an upstart with horns, let's face it, would have cheered.  This primary season is the standard race between a party insider vs. the up and comer arguing for generational change.  Here's the problem I have when people beat the drums of identity politics: they make it much more likely that the supporters of the also ran won't support the winner.

Yes, I know, this race has to play out.  I think the chances are excellent, though, that the Dems are heading into a debacle, and a lot of people are going to be asking themselves next year what went wrong.  


by IncognitoErgoSum on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 08:51:04 PM EST

Re: Reality Chec k (2.00 / 3)

We are in quite the pickle.  The emotion and outrage have gotten out of hand. The claims of victimhood are as think as I've ever seen them.

Meanwhile, McCain appoints more Justices in the mold of Alito, Roberts, Thomas and Scalia. He keeps us in Iraq and starts another war with Iran. He won't do anything for more health care for people. He's against anything when it comes to mortgages and the economy.  

I've voted for Dem candidates who were not the one I really, really wanted.  But I sure didn't sit on my hands.  What Bush vetoes McCain will also veto - but a Democratic president will sign.

We don't have to agree to work together. Clinton knows that and shows that in her legislative work and she's already said that about voting for any Dem over McCain. So let's all cool down, see how it works out in the next few months, and agree we have to be in this together.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 09:33:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Protest Planned for Hillary in New York (2.00 / 1)

I just received this--wish I lived close enough to attend. I also put in under Hot Topics. Spread the word. --------------------------------- APRIL 11TH, 8AM ROCKEFELLER PLAZA, NY Why: We are all very passionate Hillary Clinton supporters that demand to be heard for Hillary! We refuse to stand by and watch this election become corrupt and unfair!! "It Takes A Village..." and we are Hillary's Village! We have three main reasons for this demonstration: 1. We want the country to know we are fed up with the biased/sexist media coverage against our candidate Hillary Clinton! 2. We demand Florida and Michigan votes be counted. 3. We demand the media STOP saying Hillary should quit the race. For up to the minute plans and/or details/changes, please go to: http://tinyurl.com/38wegm
by aroundtheblock on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 09:19:27 PM EST

Re: Protest Planned for Hillary in New York (2.00 / 3)

It would be corrupt to count FL and MI when a lot of voters did not vote because they were told it was not a real election.  If that happened when your candidate was on the other side, people would find it outrageous.

FL and MI do not meet the most basic standards under international law to be considered free and fair.  


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 09:28:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Push Back Sister - We're Right There With You! (none / 0)

So to use Ann Lewis's logic, and Alegre's - anyone who is dismissive of Obama (which is basically 90% of the posters on this site) they are - to use her words "by extension dismissive of them and what they value.''.  Who are "them".  While all the black people who support Obama.

See how this works according to Lewis everyone who "dismiss's" Hillary hates woman.  So everyone who "dismiss's" Obama is a racist!

Whoppee identity politics!


by FinneganOregon on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 09:54:54 PM EST

Re: Push Back Sister - We're Right There With You! (none / 0)

this website is actually too pro-obama for my tastes.


by truthteller2007 on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:08:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]


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