Michigan Representative Offers Unique Solution to Seat Michigan Delegates

by mefck, Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 02:01:40 PM EST

I found this solution being offered by a Michigan representative about seating the Michigan delegation.  I think it is interesting and requires further analysis.  The only problem I have with it is how does one determine popular vote?  I would substitute an unreliable popular vote count to a more reliable delegate count.  This is better too because, as of now, we choose our nominee based upon delegates and not popular vote-which is not even counted in some caucus states.

The story and proposal below the fold....

    WASHINGTON (AP) - A Michigan congressman proposed an alternate plan Monday for seating the state's delegates at the Democratic National Convention, awarding delegates based partly on Michigan's Jan. 15 primary results and partly on the popular vote in all the nation's presidential primaries.

Rep. Bart Stupak, D-Mich., in a letter to DNC Chairman Howard Dean, proposed that Michigan's 83 pledged delegates be chosen at congressional district conventions according to the results of the state's primary.

The party stripped both Michigan and Florida of their national convention delegates because they moved their primaries to January dates that were earlier than party rules allowed.

Under Stupak's formula, New York Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, who received 55 percent of the primary vote, would receive 47 delegates.

Illinois Sen. Barack Obama, who pulled his name from Michigan's ballot, would receive 36 delegates. Many Obama supporters in Michigan voted for "uncommitted," which received 40 percent in the primary.

The remaining 73 delegates would be awarded based on the percentage of the popular vote garnered nationwide by Clinton and Obama after the last Democratic presidential primary is completed.

"The last thing we want to do as Democrats is to disenfranchise voters," Stupak wrote in the letter to Dean. "I have heard from countless Democratic and independent voters who are frustrated and angry to think that their votes are being ignored."

Stupak endorsed former North Carolina Sen. John Edwards in the primary and has remained neutral since Edwards dropped out of the race in January.

Michigan and Florida have been unable to reach agreements to redo their primaries. Any alternative vote would have to be completed by June 10 to be counted under DNC rules.

In Florida, Democratic Sen. Bill Nelson, who backs Clinton, has suggested seating all Florida delegates already chosen but only giving them half a vote each. Based on the Jan. 29 results in Florida, Clinton would have won 105, Obama 67 and John Edwards 13. Instead they would get half those delegate votes.

The Republican Party also penalized the two states for early primaries--by cutting their delegate totals in half.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id= D8VOHH3G0&show_article=1




Tags: Hillaryy Clinton, Barack Obama, Michigan primary (all tags)

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Re: Michigan Representative Offers Unique Solution (2.00 / 1)

I started to nitpick and say, "Define popular vote," but, you know what?  Fine.  Under that plan, Clinton would net somewhere between 9 and 15 delegates.  That's a decent sized haul, but not game changing.  I think if I'm Obama, I take that.


Beat McCain!
by thezzyzx on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 02:13:42 PM EST

Re: Michigan Representative Offers Unique Solution (none / 0)

If you legitimize those primaries Clinton and her supporters will then make the argument that those primaries should count in the popular vote race as well.  There is no good reason to give them such a  lifeline.  


Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius
by Blue Neponset on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 02:22:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Michigan Representative Offers Unique Solution (2.00 / 0)

It shouldn't matter because the overall popular vote is meaningless in the primaries.


by mefck on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 02:23:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Michigan Representative Offers Unique Solution (none / 0)

I know that and you know that, but Clinton and her supporters are desperate for any metric that allows Hillary to stay in the race.  There is no reason to give them one.  FL & MI will be seated at the convention one way or another.  


Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius
by Blue Neponset on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 02:28:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Michigan Representative Offers Unique Solution (none / 0)

The counter to that (since this is a Superdelegate appeal) is, "Look, he already bent the rules to give Clinton 15 free delegates in an illegitimate election.  Now you think he should be be further penalized?"

Clinton can spin however she wants, but no one is buying that an election where one person got exactly 0 votes is relevant to anything.


Beat McCain!
by thezzyzx on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 02:28:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Michigan Representative Offers Unique Solution (none / 0)

The popular vote argument is an irrational one, but it is being made by Clinton and her supporters.  If Obama agreed to this solution it would help Clinton & Co. keep making this irrational argument.  

After Hillary calls it quits I don't have a problem with a plan such as this but until then I don't see any benefit to accepting this plan or any one like it.  


Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius
by Blue Neponset on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 02:33:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Michigan Representative Offers Unique Solution (2.00 / 1)

The reason for it is that the SDs aren't stupid.  Clinton can make whatever argument she wants, but the further out there they get, the fewer people she'll convince.


Beat McCain!
by thezzyzx on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 02:37:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Michigan Representative Offers Unique Solution (2.00 / 1)

Not a bad idea, there, actually. If the DNC thinks it's okay, I'd say go for it.


Hooray for John McCain!
by ragekage on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 02:14:17 PM EST

Re: Michigan Representative Offers Unique Solution (2.00 / 1)

I could get behind this.  


No way. No how. No McCain.
by freedom78 on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 02:34:25 PM EST

Re: Michigan Representative Offers Unique Solution (2.00 / 1)

At this point, I'm open to pretty much anything just to stop all the complaining. This idea seems fair enough, though the remaining 73 delegates would probably end up being split almost 50-50 anyway (it's unlikely the popular vote total will tip too much one way or the other at this point).

I really hate to give any kind of legitimacy to a vote where it was Clinton vs. "Uncommitted," but again, let's just end this thing already.


by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 02:56:34 PM EST

Re: Michigan Representative Offers Unique Solution (none / 0)

I thought all the Hillary supporters so worried about disenfranchising Michigan votes would pour in here to comment on this.  Where are they?


by mefck on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 02:57:03 PM EST

Re: Michigan Representative Offers Unique Solution (none / 0)

I am guessing they are having a hard time controlling their laughter.

Does anyone take this proposal seriously ?

SERIOUSLY ?????


If you follow history with a long enough arc, things always get better, and the truth always prevails...Gandhi
by SevenStrings on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 03:11:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Michigan Representative Offers Unique Solution (none / 0)

Instead of offering a nonsense reply, how about some constructive criticism?


by mefck on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 03:24:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I would not oppose this (2.00 / 1)

It begs the definition of popular vote, is the only problem.  And I think we need to be clear and upfront about whether MI and FL primary results are included in that popular vote.

Depending on how popular vote is defined, this could essentially result in the 50/50 split of delegates that has already been rejected.  But it has the virtue of justifying that 50/50 split in a way that seems more fair/democratic.

As a Hillary supporter, frankly, I put my odds of carrying MI at about 50/50 to begin with.  So settling for a split of the votes this way could be ok.  If I were in her shoes, I'd prefer to take my chances and have a full revote, though.


by bobbank on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 02:59:47 PM EST

Re: I would not oppose this (2.00 / 1)

As an addendum - if I'm thinking of this in a non-partisan way, the fact remains that the people of MI didn't get to exercise their voice in a fair way.  So I still strongly prefer a revote.  But if both campaigns agreed to this method, I would not oppose it.


by bobbank on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 03:01:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I would not oppose this (2.00 / 1)

I know what you mean.  The nice thing about this proposal is that it does somewhat reflect people's support for Hillary even though it is blunted.


by mefck on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 03:09:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Another brilliant idea (none / 0)

Let us divvy up the MI delegates based on how other states vote.

We can then divvy up FL based on how GA votes.  And we can divvy up PA based on how MD has already voted.

All of this would save soo much time and money.  No need to hold elections in each and every place... 2 for the price of 1, and all that !!


If you follow history with a long enough arc, things always get better, and the truth always prevails...Gandhi
by SevenStrings on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 03:09:39 PM EST

Re: Michigan Representative Offers Unique Solution (none / 0)

nobody knows how to define 'popular' vote...I think however, the campaigns will come to a 56/44 solution before the convention, which would cost Obama roughly 10-14 delegates into his 150 delegate lead


Bring Back MyDD - Just say No to Rec'ing Candidate Diaries.
by CardBoard on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 03:14:30 PM EST


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