MyDD :: I Think Some Apologies Are in Order

I Think Some Apologies Are in Order

by Trickster, Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 02:30:09 PM EST

On Thursday, in response to charges that Obama had inflated his resume by claiming he was a Professor at the prestigious University of Chicago Law School, UC Law issued the following press release:

The Law School has received many media requests about Barack Obama, especially about his status as "Senior Lecturer." From 1992 until his election to the U.S. Senate in 2004, Barack Obama served as a professor in the Law School. He was a Lecturer from 1992 to 1996. He was a Senior Lecturer from 1996 to 2004, during which time he taught three courses per year. Senior Lecturers are considered to be members of the Law School faculty and are regarded as professors, although not full-time or tenure-track. The title of Senior Lecturer is distinct from the title of Lecturer, which signifies adjunct status. Like Obama, each of the Law School's Senior Lecturers have high-demand careers in politics or public service, which prevent full-time teaching. Several times during his 12 years as a professor in the Law School, Obama was invited to join the faculty in a full-time tenure-track position, but he declined.

After reading the release, MyDD diarist giusd wrote a perceptive, if at times awkwardly stated, piece on the slippery style in which the press release was written and the questions it raises. Among his or her excellent points were the fact that the release's use of the small "p" could not possibly clarify this issue, that the release was unsigned, that no authority was cited, and that several phrases showed strong signs of "parsing." In comments, I pointed out that, read closely, the statement actually says that Obama was both a professor and an adjunct from 1992-96, a "fact" that simply does not make sense to those familiar with academia (giusd, in fact, has done graudate studies at UC itself).

giusd's diary drew scores of responses. Most of them were flat-out ridicule, the lowest form of political communication.

But you know what they say: he who laughs last laughs best.

On Friday, UC Law issued a "clarification:"

The University of Chicago released a statement Thursday saying Sen. Barack Obama "served as a professor" in the law school -- but that is a title Obama, who taught courses there part-time, never held, a spokesman for the school confirmed on Friday.

"He did not hold the title of professor of law," said Marsha Ferziger Nagorsky, an assistant dean for communications and lecturer in law at the school.

Now I'm not here to stoke this gotcha faux controversy. There is always room to pick over candidates' words to find fault, and there is generally fault to find when you do, because political candidates occasionally (cough cough always) exaggerate their accomplishments. Whatever time we spend exhuming this meaningless controversy is time diverted from examining the qualifications of the candidates.

What I AM here to do is to CALL OUT some posters. If you're called out here, I suggest that you (1) fully internalize the fact that giusd was RIGHT and you were WRONG, (2) apologize to giusd, and even more importantly (3) consider eschewing ridicule in political discourse in favor of something more thought-based and conducive to a productive exchange of ideas.

Identified posters! Here is your Scarlet Letter: wear it.

Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner, I'm calling you out!

Re: Who wrote the UofC memo and why did they use a (2.00 / 6)

Seriously?

by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 05:27:35 PM EST
[ Reply to This | none0- hide1- troll2- mojo ]

Re: Who wrote the UofC memo and why did they use a (2.00 / 1)

Too many consecutive days of Wright being out of the news?

by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 05:58:26 PM EST
[ Parent | Reply to This | none0- hide1- troll2- mojo ]

Re: I say we rec this just (2.00 / 1)

You're dodging the issue! P or p? P or p?!?

by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 05:54:45 PM EST
[ Parent | Reply to This | none0- hide1- troll2- mojo ]

Actually, it's:

:O~~~~

Sorry, this diary made me ill.

by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 06:28:43 PM EST
[ Parent | Reply to This | none0- hide1- troll2- mojo ]

Kindthoughts, I'm calling you out!

I say we rec this just (none / 0)

so we can get more people weighing in on the alphabet.

-- be excellent to each other [how ironic is this? - Trickster]

by kindthoughts [and this? - Trickster] on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 05:49:28 PM EST
[ Parent | Reply to This | none0- hide1- troll2- mojo ]

Re: I say we rec this just (none / 0)

I think (none / 0)
the diarist really had to PPPPPPee!

:)
-- be excellent to each other

by kindthoughts on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 05:58:24 PM EST
[ Parent | Reply to This | none0- hide1- troll2- mojo ]

erm (none / 0)

dude its a diary about capitalization of letter "p"

You want to see crowd mentality, checkout HRC supporters diaries on Wright.

-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 06:13:30 PM EST
[ Parent | Reply to This | none0- hide1- troll2- mojo ]

yeah this is serious (2.00 / 2)

its henious!!!

I am sure he only misspoke because he was running under sniper fire.

-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 05:47:49 PM EST
[ Parent | Reply to This | none0- hide1- troll2- mojo

like its been said (2.00 / 1)

you are dodging the issue.

Is it P or p?

-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 06:07:53 PM EST
[ Parent | Reply to This | none0- hide1- troll2- mojo ]

wow.... (2.00 / 1)

using the letter case to argue a point!!!

Next up, Its written on paper, not hewed in stone!! IT MUST BE WRONG!!!

-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 05:32:42 PM EST
[ Reply to This | none0- hide1- troll2- mojo ]

no, no (2.00 / 1)

its 8 years of w. Lower case.

-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 05:48:40 PM EST
[ Parent | Reply to This | none0- hide1- troll2- mojo ]

he did not mispeak. (2.00 / 3)

Senior Lecturers are considered to be members of the Law School faculty and are regarded as professors

Wow this is like the saddest diary.

-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 05:45:11 PM EST
[ Parent | Reply to This | none0- hide1- troll2- mojo ]

rec this, (none / 0)

I really would like to see this diary on Rec list.

-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 06:03:02 PM EST
[ Parent | Reply to This | none0- hide1- troll2- mojo ]

is that (2.00 / 3)

capitalized?

-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 05:55:25 PM EST
[ Parent | Reply to This | none0- hide1- troll2- mojo ]

hehehe (2.00 / 3)

Coconuts float up stream. Sorry uP stream.

-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 06:09:42 PM EST
[ Parent | Reply to This | none0- hide1- troll2- mojo ]

please rec this, I really want people to see this (2.00 / 1)
one.

-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 06:10:14 PM EST
[ Parent | Reply to This | none0- hide1- troll2- mojo ]

its a diary whether a letter should be capitalized or not.

-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 06:45:49 PM EST
[ Parent | Reply to This | none0- hide1- troll2- mojo ]

Mefck, I'm calling you out!

Re: erm (2.00 / 2)

seriously the diarist has no point. Suggesting that one of the most esteemed law schools would pimp itself just to help Obama is just so far out there, it really isn't worth any analysis.

This diary has merely wasted all of our time.

by mefck on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 06:25:00 PM EST
[ Parent | Reply to This | none0- hide1- troll2- mojo ]

Re: he did not mispeak. (2.00 / 3)

It is a crime that someone wasted about an hour of their day writing this bull. Really. I can't believe this is what passes for discourse on a person's qualifications these days.

Let's see, all of mydd's analysis of Obama is:

Wright and his big mansion
Marsh's inaccurate looks at polls
Obama's parking tickets FROM LAW SCHOOL
And Rezco innuendo

Oh, and I almost forgot, his state legislative papers that never existed. Yes, release those!

Oh and he must drop out ASAP because he is winning.

Yet, these same people when called out on Hillary not telling the truth about BEING SUBJECT TO SNIPER FIRE thing its no biggie and think she doesn't have to release her tax returns.

Sounds about right.

kindthoughts-the CAPS are for you :)

by mefck on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 05:50:09 PM EST
[ Parent | Reply to This | none0- hide1- troll2- mojo ]

fogiv, I'm calling you out!

Re: erm (none / 0)

A substantial point? You know what "substantial" means, right?

by fogiv on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 07:29:55 PM EST
[ Parent | Reply to This | none0- hide1- troll2- mojo ]

Veteran 75, I'm calling you out!

Re: Who wrote the UofC memo and why did they use a (none / 0)

Maybe we can rehash the definiton of "IS" . . . or is it "is" ? ? ?

DEMS '08 NO 100 year WAR, NO McConnell run Senate, & NO GOP-led Supreme Court!!!

by Veteran75 on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 06:14:25 PM EST
[ Parent | Reply to This | none0- hide1- troll2- mojo ]

furiousxgeorge, I'm calling you out!

Re: Who wrote the UofC memo and why did they use a (2.00 / 8)

This is the dumbest attempt to form a controversy out of nothing I've ever seen.

by furiousxgeorge on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 05:28:09 PM EST
[ Reply to This | none0- hide1- troll2- mojo ]

interestedbystander, I'm calling you out!

Re: Who wrote the UofC memo and why did they use a (2.00 / 4)

Does the expression "grasping at straws" mean anything to you?

by interestedbystander on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 05:45:00 PM EST
[ Reply to This | none0- hide1- troll2- mojo ]

mady, I'm calling you out!

Re: Who wrote the UofC memo ..... (2.00 / 4)

This has to be the Monty Python of diaries.

by mady on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 06:05:42 PM EST
[ Reply to This | none0- hide1- troll2- mojo ]

thezzyzx, I'm calling you out!

Re: Who wrote the UofC memo and why did they use a (2.00 / 2)

So is the correct emoticon :P or :p?

A proud Prius driving, Birkenstock wearing Democrat
by thezzyzx on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 06:17:45 PM EST
[ Reply to This | none0- hide1- troll2- mojo ]

freedom78, I'm calling you out!

Re: Who wrote the UofC memo and why did they use a (none / 0)

Who's up for a boycott of the use of capital letters?

solidarity!

how many more have to die because of capital letters? join me in boycotting capital letters! together, we can make our (lower) case to america.

by freedom78 on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 07:24:58 PM EST
[ Reply to This | none0- hide1- troll2- mojo ]

fladem, I'm calling you out!

I think you mean a capital letters (none / 0)

STRIKE!!!!

DOWN WITH DKOS!!!

by fladem on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 08:47:10 PM EST
[ Parent | Reply to This | none0- hide1- troll2- mojo ]

And finally, BITNPB didn't use ridicule but deserves to be called out anyway!

Re: Who wrote the UofC memo and why did they use a (1.00 / 1)

giusd, let me be blunt. English is clearly not your first language, and you don't have the skill with it that would be required to parse the intricacies of phrasing and capitalization. Your post itself contains a half-a-dozen capitalization errors ("my Medical training," etc.)

The Washington Post gave Mrs Clinton four Pinocchios for [the sniper story], which is like three Michelin stars, only for lying. -- The Economist
by BITNPB on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 07:53:52 PM EST
[ Reply to This | none0- hide1- troll2- mojo ]

Re: Who wrote the UofC memo and why did they use a (2.00 / 1)

BINPB, let me be blunt,

So what is you point other than try to insult me. English is my first language so your post is even more insulting. For what reason do you feel the need to do this? I will not go on and dont feel the need to post an insulting comment about you. I think i sad through that this really is all you have to say.

david

Tags: rudeness, herd mentality, who looks stupid now? (all tags)

Permalink :: 61 Comments :: Post a Comment

Re: I Think Some Apologies Are in Order (2.00 / 0)

ok I will try and explain this yes

he never held the title of professor of law.
it wasn't officially a professor that is correct.

but the school does consider Senior Lecturers professors, his students did refer to him as Prof. Obama no, Sr. Lecturer Obama.

yes you are 100% right he was not officially a professor.

but you will lose the argument if you go to ANY law school and ask if him being called Prof. Obama was some how wrong.

I go to law school right now, William Mitchell College of Law in St. Paul, MN

right now I couldn't begin to tell you which of my profs. are actually professors and which aren't

if you teach enough at the school then guess what you are a professor.

Obama said, as Bill beamed. "Thank you, President Clinton."

by TruthMatters on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 02:35:31 PM EST

You entirely miss the point (1.00 / 0)

of my diary. Have you read it?

by Trickster on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 02:39:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You entirely miss the point (2.00 / 0)

this whole debate.

Was he officially a professor vs. Was he correct that he was considered a professor

both sides are right, thus neither side owes an apology to the other. but we shall continue to talk about it for weeks,

well you guys will I am adding this to my list of useless debates I won't comment about on mydd anymore.

Obama said, as Bill beamed. "Thank you, President Clinton."

by TruthMatters on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 02:42:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

That's an entirely different subject matter (2.00 / 0)

My diary is about people ridiculing something they don't understand. Try reading it. Generally, reading diaries before commenting them is another practice I would recommend.

by Trickster on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 02:45:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That's an entirely different subject matter (none / 0)

sigh let me put it this way,

I do not agree with your premise that apologies are owed.

but that is an opinion, you are entitled to yours.

Obama said, as Bill beamed. "Thank you, President Clinton."

by TruthMatters on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 02:49:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You entirely miss the point (none / 0)

There was a point, seems you were just calling people out because they see things one way and you the other.

Because I wont trade humanity for patriotism!

by Drewid on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 02:58:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Uh, no (none / 0)

I only called out the people who responded with ridicule. If you'll go to the original diary this is based on, you'll see that there were also a handful of people who disagreed with giusd and stated why they disagreed. I did not, nor would I, call those people out--only the ridiculers.

by Trickster on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 05:19:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Think Some Apologies Are in Order (none / 0)

I go to law school right now, William Mitchell College of Law in St. Paul, MN

Shout out to Victoria & Grand.

by jdusek on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 03:26:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Think Some Apologies Are in Order (2.00 / 0)

Can you quit this nonsense? It's all explained in universal's diary, with many professors responding (as the diarist continues to hold out, much like one of those Japanese soldiers who refused to give up after WWII).

Obama is a professor - someone who teaches at a college or university - but he does not hold the rank/title of Professor.

It is just not that complicated, at least not to me, perhaps because I have spent 25 years as a professor and administrator.

We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.

by politicsmatters on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 02:37:14 PM EST

Which nonsense? (1.00 / 0)

I don't think you read my diary, did you? You certainly aren't within a country mile of my theme with your remarks here.

by Trickster on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 02:40:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Think Some Apologies Are in Order (2.00 / 0)

sadly though, I doubt you would give as much attention to the Bosnia gaffee would you? more importantly how she says she mis-spoke as if she only said it once, but ignores she said it 4 times and was even called out on it by sinbad weeks before she admitted to mis-speaking.

that you won't but the correct definition of professor gets all the focus on MyDD.

that is fine.

Obama said, as Bill beamed. "Thank you, President Clinton."

by TruthMatters on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 02:37:44 PM EST

Have you read this diary? (none / 0)

You are not even close to talking about anything I'm talking about.

by Trickster on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 02:40:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Diary looks like a Who's Who... (1.00 / 0)

...of some of the more active trolls on this blog.

(No offense to those mentioned in it, but caught in the crossfire.)

by bobswern on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 02:42:56 PM EST

Re: Diary looks like a Who's Who... (none / 0)

Interesting you mention that... need I remind you of Ragekage-gate?

Hooray for John McCain!

by ragekage on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 02:46:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Diary looks like a Who's Who... (none / 0)

Offence taken.

by interestedbystander on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 02:51:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Think Some Apologies Are in Order (none / 0)

I'm actually a little disappointed that I didn't get called out for my own assault on guisd's concern-trolling attempt to feed this idiotic would-be meme.

I would have wore it like a badge of honor.

by XoFalconXo on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 02:44:37 PM EST

Regardless of the merits of the actual issue (2.00 / 1)

And please recall, as I've already stated, I don't think the underlying issue about what Obama called himself holds merit--it's just a fact that the Thursday memo was slippery spin, giusd noticed it, and people ridiculed him for being correct!

Now if you wanted to call giusd out for emphasizing something that shouldn't be emphasized, more power to you and that would be a perfectly appropriate argument. But the people who ridiculed his valid points without engaging them on any intellectual level at all deserve to be shamed.

by Trickster on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 02:47:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Regardless of the merits of the actual issue (none / 0)

Would a comment to that affect in the diary have sufficed?

by interestedbystander on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 02:49:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I don't think so (none / 0)

I think this deserves wider note than being buried at the bottom of a dead diary.

by Trickster on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 02:51:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I don't think so (none / 0)

Um ... two comments then?

by interestedbystander on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 02:52:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Regardless of the merits of the actual issue (none / 0)

I think the point was that the arguments were so silly, odious, and obviously without merit that they merited ridicule and scorn.

by XoFalconXo on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 02:50:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Except that . . . (2.00 / 1)

They actually turned out to be correct.

If you approach a subject with scorn and ridicule instead of with logic and analysis, you don't give yourself a chance to discover that something you might not have initially agreed with actually holds merit.

by Trickster on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 02:52:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Except that . . . (none / 0)

In what way were they correct? The second statement made by a U of C spokesperson in is no way inconsistent with U of C's official response to this "controversy."

by XoFalconXo on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 02:56:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Except that . . . (2.00 / 1)

Come now. It was an obvious walkback, from "served as a professor" to "did not hold the title." If the first release was entirely accurate, why did they feel the need to clarify it?

by Trickster on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 03:01:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Except that . . . (none / 0)

Evidently, they were still getting harassed by conspiracy theorists.

by XoFalconXo on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 04:18:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Except that . . . (none / 0)

Okay already, it was the left leg of the fly that was pulled off, not the right leg. How could we have been so foolish not to have realized that it's important whether Obama was a professor or a Professor? This is just silly.

No Way, No How, No McCain!

by GFORD on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 04:32:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Think Some Apologies Are in Order (none / 0)

You can borrow mine at weekends:)

by interestedbystander on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 02:48:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Think Some Apologies Are in Order (none / 0)

Yes but if i makes you feel better i did read it. It really wasnt very civil. But of course i did read that you call them the way you see them.

david

by giusd on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 02:56:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Think Some Apologies Are in Order (none / 0)

Hey, I do feel better!

by XoFalconXo on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 03:01:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Think Some Apologies Are in Order (none / 0)

You realize this post violates the terms of service on this site.

Hooray for John McCain!

by ragekage on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 02:45:50 PM EST

Re: I Think Some Apologies Are in Order (none / 0)

Check the posting rules of this site - this diary blatantly breaks them. As for bring mentioned in your diatribe - I'll wear that as a badge of honour, whilst snickering at the amount of time it must have taken you to type that up list, which will alter not one opinion.

Now back in the real world, Obama up 10 points in latest poll. Yeah.

by interestedbystander on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 02:47:36 PM EST

Re: I Think Some Apologies Are in Order (none / 0)

bring / being

by interestedbystander on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 02:50:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

To you and ragekage (none / 0)

The rules forbid titles that call out other posters. I don't think the title of this diary calls out other posters.

If the moderators disagree with me, I am happy to be banned for standing up for someone wrongfully ridiculed.

by Trickster on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 02:53:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: To you and ragekage (none / 0)

Read them again - users who are bashing or abusing other posters will be banned. Replying to comments is one thing - basing a whole diary on attacking other posters is another. This crosses the line - although I personally find it very funny.

by interestedbystander on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 02:58:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: To you and ragekage (none / 0)

Have you commented on many blogs? Read many comments on many blogs?

I made some factual statements about what people did. I was very precise and detailed, and offered full evidentiary proof of what I was talking about. The only characterization I made was the general characterization that people engaged in "ridicule."

Bashing and abusing is when people call each other names, call each other stupid, etc. For example, giusd was heartily bashed in his original diary.

At least in my humble opinion, pointing out some precise facts about someone's conduct and then offering my opinion about what that precise conduct constitutes is not "bashing" or "abusing." It's "telling the truth."

by Trickster on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 03:06:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: To you and ragekage (none / 0)

Yes and yes.

Calling people out by name in a diary is abuse. Demanding they apologise in a diary is abuse.

Thank you for your time, but I'm now hopping off to a fun diary showing Obama is 10% ahead and trending up.

by interestedbystander on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 03:16:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Sorry (none / 0)

The question of whether my diary title "calls posters out" is not one i would answer affirmatively, but at least it's arguable. But stating the plain facts of what other posters have said and then arguing that those factual statements constitute "ridicule" and should be apologized for is miles away from "abuse." That argument is silly.

If there is anybody here from the old Tacitus site who remembers the way Timmy the Wonder Dog used to trail me around and tack one-line ridicule posts onto everything I said--now that's abuse. One-time analysis is scarcely abuse.

by Trickster on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 03:26:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: To you and ragekage (none / 0)

You want an apology? I'm sorry you have nothing more important on your mind than this minutia.

No Way, No How, No McCain!

by GFORD on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 04:34:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Heh (2.00 / 1)

Pretty funny.

It really did make me chuckle--but this is far from minutiae, imo. The level and manner with which people converse with each other about politics is not only important in and of itself to the people involved, but it impacts the politics and government we eventually wind up with.

I know this is a confrontational diary, but it's not written in favor of conflict, but in favor of polite discourse, truth, and logic. I risked my posting privileges by writing it, because it arguably conflicts with one of the site rules. Trying to defend it is a pretty time-consuming exercise.

And I was well aware of, and weighted, all of those factors before writing this. I just think the subject is very important. If a single reader decides to think twice before responding to a political message with knee-jerk ridicule, I'll feel the time was well worth spent.

by Trickster on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 05:14:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Heh (none / 0)

I'll give you this much. There have been some stories going around about Clinton lying when it was something she never said. For example, that she claimed Chelsea was in personal danger during 9/11. Turns out Clinton never claimed that.

So there are a lot of potshots (probably coming from those evildoers on the right) being taken at both candidates. We're all a little sensitive at this point.

So you said Obama was not an actual Professor and people piled on. But you were right in that respect. I knew all along from seeing him talk about it in his speeches plus in his bio that he taught classes at Chicago U in constitutional law but he was not a resident Professor.

However, the term professor is used in everyday language to mean a teacher at the university. And most people don't make the distinction. So they are not wrong either.

Just one of those cognitive dissonance things.

No Way, No How, No McCain!

by GFORD on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 06:13:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Here's a similar example (2.00 / 0)

I was in the Air Force for 16 1/2 years. Back in 1992, after Desert Storm was over, the US decided to reduce "force structure" - the amount of folks needed in the various branches of the service, because the Soviet Union had fallen earlier. I was a MSgt at the time.

So the Air Force came out with an "early out" program with benefits, looking for volunteers to get out early with reduced benefits, in order to shrink active duty numbers. At first, they only offered it to lower ranking folks, but they did not get enough volunteers. So then they opened it up to higher ranking folks like me. I weighed the pluses and minuses, and decided to take the early out the reduced benefits, instead of stay in for another 4-6 years, and start life over earlier.

So, I am John Dean, former MSgt, USAF
I am not John Dean, USAF, Ret.

I didn't know until a few years ago that I could not use the term "Ret" after my former rank. Even though it was a retirement of sorts, with benefits, I was not in the same class as a person who served 20+.

It's awkward, and of course I'd much rather use the term "Ret" since not using it makes people wonder why I got out early, things like that.

But regardless, there is a difference, and I've had to accept it and move on.

It's the same thing here IMO. Obama served as a professor while teaching a few classes - it only makes sense that anyone who teaches a class at a university is performing the duty of "a professor."

But he was not a Professor. He was never given that title. And he cannot use that title.

Just like I can't use "Ret"

John

Never let the bullies win.

by SluggoJD on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 02:52:50 PM EST

You, also (none / 0)

I suspect did not read my diary. My diary is not about whether Obama is or was correct in what he called himself. I explicitly called that a "faux controversy" and said that it's not my subject.

by Trickster on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 02:54:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Well then trickster, you tricked me (none / 0)

However, since the root cause of everything going on, including your diary, is whether or not Obama can say what he said with a straight face or not, I'm gonna forgive myself for being tricked by the trickster.

As for the callouts, I'm in a good mood today, watching final four games, getting ready for baseball, stuff like that. I don't blame you or criticize you for calling folks out - I've done it myself lol.

So we're cool.

Never let the bullies win.

by SluggoJD on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 03:06:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Rock on, Sluggo (none / 0)

FTR, it's quite understandable that folks would read the first 2-3 paras of this monumentally too-long diary and draw the wrong conclusion about the diary's subject.

However, even though you've showed you "get it," I will go ahead and take this further opportunity to reiterate that I am not criticizing Obama for having called himself what he called himself. In fact, I'll go a step further and say that the group of "Senior Lecturers" at UC, which group Obama joined in 1996, is generally a group that is more prestigious than UC's actual professors. Posner and Easterbrook, at least, are UC Law's best-known names in the legal community.

by Trickster on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 03:10:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Maybe not but i think you should be referred to as Ret and i will remember and do so in the future and years of service does not decrease the importance of serviice.

david

by giusd on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 06:30:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Think Some Apologies Are in Order (2.00 / 2)

Thanks for the post. I am grateful. I want to say a few things first. While i support HRC and am not really fond of BO, and have said some things i regret, I want to make myself clear that I will not only vote for BO if he wins but will send the maximum to his campaign. And this will not be easy for me since I am such a big HRC supporter. And I say to every HRC supporter I know you feel upset about what seems like a double standard in the way BO and HRC are treated but we still have to come together as a party in the fall.

Next my post on Thursday was not to question BO truthfulness it was to 1. Push back from the "HRC lied about the whole professor nonsense"; and 2. Express my unhappiness that my University got involved in something it should have stayed out of. Universities are neutrals' and I was upset that their web post seemed really parsed and less than correct. And I feel this was the case because the University had to correct the record on Friday and I think they did the right thing.

And no one has to apologize for anything people are entitled to say what they want.

The UofC spokesman did address my questions. The University said no one contacted them. They corrected the record on Friday to state that BO was not a Professor of Law and capital versus small p does matter even if only pin headed academics thing.

Lastly, I never intended this to be BO lied. I don't think he did but I also think he should just set the record straight and say I was a Senior Lecturer at the University and I was commonly refer to as professor but I was not a Professor of Constitutional Law. And I hope that BO supporters will stop with the HRC is a lair. She is a candidate fighting hard to win just like BO and let's play out the primary and if it is BO lets close ranks then.

Done.

Best wishes david

by giusd on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 02:53:43 PM EST

Re: I Think Some Apologies Are in Order (none / 0)

The real question is who released the fraudulent press notice?

University of Chicago had someone release a calculated lie to support one presidential candidate over another.

By the continued use of professor rather than Professor they lied about his title hoping to fall back on the ha ha didn't use a capital P defense.

We need an investigation into this...

by DTaylor on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 02:54:04 PM EST

Re: I Think Some Apologies Are in Order (none / 0)

I appreciate the call-out, I really do.

Thanks for making your candidate continue to look desperate.

It's also been nice knowing you: http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/3/21/2125 46/909

by mefck on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 02:56:56 PM EST

i agree (none / 0)

some apologies are in order. starting with everyone who recommended universal's diary involving the selective hacking of the official statement by the university of chicago law school so that he could make a point exactly opposite the one made BY THE LAW SCHOOL. ON ITS WEBSITE! for crying out loud people, this is embarassing!

how's this for a calling out:

susanhu
Gabriele Droz
Caro
Tennessean
CarolinaDawn
atdleft
campskunk
LindaSFNM
indydem99
Beltway Dem
ghost 2
anna shane
linfar
oh puhleeze
Shazone
JoeySky18
Molee
Si Ella Puede
susanclare
dot48
DemAC
chieflytrue
Cassyma
pm317
deborah63
Ida B
lbboy

by elie on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 02:59:29 PM EST

Re: i agree (2.00 / 0)

Universal,

I see my name is not on this. i will do that now.

david

by giusd on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 03:02:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

wow (none / 0)

just... wow.

by elie on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 03:04:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: i agree (2.00 / 0)

Hey I just went and rec'd it to, but for a wholly different and cynical reason.
I think having diaries like Uni's on the rec list says it all.

Because I wont trade humanity for patriotism!

by Drewid on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 03:13:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Not nearly as racist as the typical Universal (1.00 / 1)

diary.

by bobdoleisevil on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 03:20:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Another stupid diary on this???? (2.00 / 1)

Professor Obama never claimed to be a Professor of Law. He referred to himself as a law professor.

What Dean Nagorsky said is 100% true and also 100% irrelevant.

I've said it on another thread but I'll repeat it here. All this is doing is really tick off people who really do have the title Professor. Let it go. He did not mis-speak. He did not lie. He just referred to himself in the same informal way that every student of his and every faculty member at the University of Chicago would have.

Now, if he had referred to himself as Dr. Obama, then I'd be the first one to jump down his throat. Again, let it go.

You're not helping. This sort of argument just perpetuates the perception that HRC supporters are uneducated, "low-information" voters. Please stop it. It's insulting.

by professor on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 04:23:11 PM EST

Re: Another stupid diary on this???? (none / 0)

HRC supporters are uneducated, "low-information" voters. Please stop it. It's insulting.

I see this is your third post ever and your first was today at 3pm and this one at 4:23.

I may be low infromation but i am not dumb?

by giusd on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 04:35:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Another stupid diary on this???? (none / 0)

You are not dumb. You are just a liar.

I am one of those latte liberals that Bill Clinton keeps bashing.

by ges69 on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 06:47:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Think Some Apologies Are in Order (none / 0)

In my original diary I said this:

In a later comment, I wrote this:

I'll go a step further and say that the group of "Senior Lecturers" at UC, which group Obama joined in 1996, is generally a group that is more prestigious than UC's actual professors. Posner and Easterbrook, at least, are UC Law's best-known names in the legal community.

Now if you'd care to actually read my diary and then comment on its substance, I'd be pleased to have your contribution.

As for what you did say here, however, and not in the interest of stoking this absurd non-controversy, but rather in the interest of the truth, you went way overboard when you said "every faculty member" at UC would refer to himself/herself as a "professor." Now I will admit that I have never even visited the University of Chicago, but unless UC is extremely different from other institutions of higher learning, its instructors most assuredly do not universally refer to themselves as "professors." That term is widely used to designate anyone who teaches at a university, but it's not used that way within the academy, where "Professor" is a specific job title, highly distinguishable from job titles such as "adjunct" or "instructor," or, at least in some cases, "lecturer."

by Trickster on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 04:36:16 PM EST

There you go again (2.00 / 1)

I've been on the faculty at three different schools, most recently as Professor, Department Chair, and voting member of the Rank and Tenure committee at my current school. Because it's part of my job to know these things, I'm very well-versed on what the standard practice is in the academy. At every school I'm aware of the practice is to refer to a faculty member as a professor even when their rank is lecturer. It may be just a courtesy, but I've never run into anyone who felt it was unduly deserved.

Are you really going to claim that Assistant Professors cannot claim to be professors? After all, they have not achieved the Professor rank either. The title of Senior Lecturer at UC is similar to what some schools call "clinical professor." Such people are not tenure track, but they are professors.

So I agree that "Professor" is a specific job title -- actually, at the University of California, there are eight levels of Professor (i.e., beyond the Associate rank), so maybe it's not really so specific -- but I'm not aware that professor Obama ever claimed to have attained the Professor rank. If he had, then I'd be right with you, but he didn't.

I'm not trying to make an ad hominem attack, and I understand that you aren't either. I'm just registering my opinion that this particular argument lacks integrity. Let it go. It really is just splitting hairs, and even this hopeless academic doesn't want to see any more time wasted here on MyDD on this sort of thing. There are so many more important things to talk about.

by professor on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 05:19:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: There you go again (none / 0)

Thanks for your perspective. Perhaps because my personal academic experience is further down the food chain from your own--most of my academic friends have been adjuncts or part-time lecturers, and I was an adjunct myself for a while--I have a different perspective. I can't imagine any of the people I'm talking about ever claiming to be a "professor," even with the small "p." Certainly I agree that an Assistant Professor is a "[p/P]rofessor."

As I stated in the thread this one is about, usage varies widely from school to school on where "lecturers" and "senior lecturers" stand in the pecking order, e.g., at UC Law, Senior Lecturer is an esteemed position just based on how may there are and who they are, but Lecturer, according to the Thursday release quoted above, is considered equivalent to a adjunct, indicating a pretty wide gap between those two jobs. And I'm sure different schools look at things differently.

Finally, with this extended response I'm probably not giving enough weight to your final paragraph. :) In fact, perhaps I would've been better not to challenge you on your "every faculty member" to start with. Some things are just not worth fighting over. . . .

by Trickster on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 08:00:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Think Some Apologies Are in Order (none / 0)

Awesome, I got called out!

But for this?

Who's up for a boycott of the use of capital letters?

solidarity!

SOOOO...here's my question. How am I "wrong"?

That post was a joke. So how's it incorrect?

I really don't understand.

I don't MIND being called out...but this doesn't really make sense.

No way. No how. No McCain.

by freedom78 on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 07:11:57 PM EST

You're right (none / 0)

Yours was a joke. Standing alone, it deserves no censure at all. The worst you, personally, deserve to be called out on is not noticing that there was a herd mentality going on that you were furthering (which is not very bad, as internet offenses go).

So, with the tiny proviso the above would constitute, I apologize to you.

by Trickster on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 07:51:45 PM EST

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