Final Texas Polls Basically Show a Tie Between Obama and Clinton

A little over 24 hours from the polls being closed in the Texas primary, it looks like the race just about all tied up. Here's SurveyUSA, Rasmussen Reports, Public Policy Polling (.pdf), Zogby, Insider Advantage, the Pollster.com trend estimate, and the Real Clear Politics poll average.

CandidateSUSARasm.PPPZogbyIAPollsterRCP
Obama494844474447.046.5
Clinton484750444946.046.8

According to the analysis from both SurveyUSA and Rasmussen, it looks like Barack Obama's previously strong upward movement may have ended. Indeed, looking at the overall trend of polling, it appears that Obama may have inched down a point or two from his high point in the state and Hillary Clinton may have inched up a point or two from her recent low in the state -- though that could be as much a factor of statistical noise being read by the trend estimates as real movement. Either way, I think the folks at Rasmussen have it right when they write:

The winner of the Texas Presidential Primary will be determined by turnout and late deciders.

In this situation, it still seems very possible that Clinton will win the popular vote in the primary tomorrow, which seems to be a benchmark her campaign is shooting for so as not to drop out. In such a case, it would be quite possible, if not likely, that she would gain fewer delegates out of the state than Obama -- and even fewer delegates in the primary (not just in the caucuses that follow the primary) due to the breakdown of delegates among state Senate districts.

Such a situation might give Clinton a bit of a momentum boost (even as it would represent a remarkably poor showing in light of polling showing her leading the state by as many as 20 points a few weeks ago, as well as the demographics of the state, which were not long ago presumed to give her an overwhelming advantage). However, it would not get her any closer (and in fact could put her further away) from cutting Obama's large overall delegate lead, so like Atrios and others I'm not entirely sure that this is a terribly meaningful benchmark.

At the same time, it's very possible that the popular vote total will turn out the other way and Obama will score his upset victory in Texas. In such a case, Obama would likely get a momentum boost -- or at least stop the possibility that Clinton will get a significant momentum boost -- while also helping pad his overall delegate lead. What's more, with an Obama popular vote win and delegate win in Texas, there would be a great deal of pressure on Clinton to drop out (Bill Richardson laid out the argument yesterday) given the near impossibility at that point that Clinton would be able to regain a pledged delegate lead before the convention. Whether she would drop out in such a situation I don't know (and I even think she doesn't know at this time).



Display:


Re: Final Texas Polls Basically Show a Tie Between (2.00 / 3)

TEXAS IS HILL COUNTRY!


by Nobama on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 06:05:38 PM EST

Re: Final Texas Polls Basically Show a Tie Between (none / 0)

I am blinded and amazed by your incredibly insightful analysis...thank you so much for showing us the light...


ENOUGH!
by JDF on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 06:44:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Final Texas Polls Basically Show a Tie Between (2.00 / 2)

This is only true of a portion of Texas, much of the state is quite flat.


by Socraticsilence on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 06:49:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Final Texas Polls Basically Show a Tie Between (none / 0)

There are also quite a few mesas (along I-10).  And cacti.

...Do mesas count as hills or are they just super-buttes?  ;)


by carloseljefe on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 08:49:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

THE HEADLINE (2.00 / 2)

Clinton wins Texas. What a headline. And just in time.

Oh, and here's a line from Clinton in Ohio this morning:

"I think that I have a lifetime of experience that I will bring to the White House. Sen. John McCain has a lifetime of experience that he'd bring to the White House. And Sen. Obama has a speech he gave in 2002."


I proudly support Barack Obama for President!
by Zeitgeist9000 on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 06:06:38 PM EST

Re: THE HEADLINE (2.00 / 3)

Just saw that Hillary clip on CNN. It's a brilliant line! And, Joe Wilson has something to say about Obama's 2002 speech:

Joseph C. Wilson: Obama's Hollow "Judgment" and Empty Record - Politics on The Huffington Post

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/joe-wilson /obamas-hollow-judgment_b_89441.html


by Nobama on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 06:11:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: THE HEADLINE (2.00 / 1)

Yes, it is so brilliant to complement John McCain.  So if Hillary loses the nomination, she would prefer a Republican in the Whitehouse?  If that is the case, she is an idiot.  No wonder Dems had a net loss of house seats, senate seats and governorships during the Clinton administration.  


by peter peter on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 06:22:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: THE HEADLINE (2.00 / 0)

Yes...this is basically an endorsement of McCain...and I am willing to bet that if Obama wins the nomination we will see this clip played in his ads...

I almost wonder if it was her intention for this to be a bit of a poison pill IN CASE Obama wins the nomination... she will be too old to run in 8 years, but not necessarily in 4.


ENOUGH!
by JDF on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 06:45:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: THE HEADLINE (none / 0)

Why is Obama the only Democrat given license to be "real"?


I proudly support Barack Obama for President!
by Zeitgeist9000 on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 06:48:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: THE HEADLINE (2.00 / 1)

Its not about the criticism of Obama, its about the praise of McCain.


by Socraticsilence on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 06:50:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: THE HEADLINE (none / 0)

thank you for remaking my point.


ENOUGH!
by JDF on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 07:04:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: THE HEADLINE (2.00 / 1)

Are you really going to try and convince us that it's OK for a candidate to praise the Republican nominee in the same breath as slamming your fellow Democrat?  


by Brillobreaks on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 06:53:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: THE HEADLINE (none / 0)

She ain't won it yet.  And neither has Obama.


by NewOaklandDem on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 06:33:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

the Obama campaign is too soft (none / 0)

They are sitting back and letting her throw bombs.  


by highgrade on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 08:00:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: THE HEADLINE (2.00 / 1)

She's a disgusting traitor to Democrats. After today, I now officially despise her.


by Oregonian on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 10:38:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: THE HEADLINE (none / 0)

You are kidding, right? Because there is no way you are serious.


by Marvin42 on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 12:41:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Final Texas Polls (2.00 / 1)

A Clinton popular vote win combined with a delegate loss (particularly if it's due to the caucus) probably is a net benefit for Hillary.  Her only real chance to win the nomination is to somehow persuade the public and especially the superdelegates that the pledged delegate totals are suspect due to bizarre allocation rules and that the results from all those caucus states do not truly reflect the will of the people.  A Texas result that reinforces both of those memes, even if it meant she lost more ground in the delegate race, actually helps her explain that argument, the only one she really has left.


99% perspiration
by DaveOinSF on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 06:08:44 PM EST

I just have a hard time (none / 0)

thinking that the unaligned super delegates are going to throw their weight towards the candidate losing in the pledged delegates. either way, assuming Clinton doesn't drop out anytime soon, it will be fun to watch.
 
by highgrade on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 08:05:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Final Texas Polls Basically Show a Tie Between (none / 0)

Another nail-biter, man I love elections.  Yippy-aye-ay.


by Shaun Appleby on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 06:12:51 PM EST

Re: Final Texas Polls Basically Show a Tie Between (2.00 / 1)

by how much did the internals show him winning new hampshire ?


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 06:18:18 PM EST

Re: Final Texas Polls Basically Show a Tie Between (none / 0)

I'm pretty sure that they didn't show that at all.

Keep telling yourself that Obama's not going to out-perform the polls tomorrow, as has happened pretty often in the past.


by Cycloptichorn on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 06:20:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Final Texas Polls Basically Show a Tie Between (2.00 / 1)

Obama has outperformed in situations where he already had a sizable lead, e.g., South Carolina, where all the undecideds in the African American community broke for him on election day. In a situation like Texas, where we're pretty sure we know how each demographic is going to vote, turnout and extraneous late deciders will be determinative.


I proudly support Barack Obama for President!
by Zeitgeist9000 on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 06:24:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Final Texas Polls Basically Show a Tie Between (2.00 / 1)

What about, say, WI; he out-performed the poll average by something like 15 points.

I haven't seen any pollster give Obama 90% of the AA vote in TX, which he will probably get.  I think he's got plenty of room to move above the polls in TX as well.

In OH, I wonder; will the terrible weather significantly affect voting?


by Cycloptichorn on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 06:30:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Final Texas Polls Basically Show a Tie Between (none / 0)

WI and TX are actually good parallels: small Obama lead vanishes in a weekend poll prior to the election; HRC supporters credit tactical change (then it was Debate Ad/ Plagarism now its 3am Ad/ "Naftagate"), polling anomaly due to the weekend disappears Obama wins. OH is a lot like MO: Hill lead by 5-10, Massive Obama support in the Urban Areas/College towns (he has the mayors of Cleveland,Cincy and Columbus) carries him to a close victory.


by Socraticsilence on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 06:54:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Final Texas Polls Basically Show a Tie Between (2.00 / 2)

AA's have not exceeded 2004 turn out. They are just voting overwhelmingy for BO.

Look at the exits from 2004 in the Dem primary and then look at the exits from the 2008 primary. AA's are not voting in greater numbers; they are just voting more overwhelmingly for one candidate. To think that AA's in Texas, who comprised 21% of the population, will now comprise 35% of the population is not logical.

However, the demographic that has been exceeding the 2004 exits is Hispanics. I would watch this number to guage how HRC's night goes. If Hispanic's can push close to 30% of the voting demographic, she has a good shot at winning the popular vote.


by njsketch on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 06:20:21 PM EST

Re: Final Texas Polls Basically Show a Tie Between (2.00 / 1)

30-35% of the VOTING DEMOCRATS, not of the population as a whole.  

The early voting numbers for the AA districts are astronomical; the majority Hispanic districts, not so much.  I don't believe the evidence supports your position.


by Cycloptichorn on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 06:24:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Final Texas Polls Basically Show a Tie Between (none / 0)

21% of the population should put them at 30-35% of the Dem primary, unlike virtually any other racial group AA are nearly pure Blue.


by Socraticsilence on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 06:56:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Final Texas Polls Basically Show a Tie Between (none / 0)

But they are 11% of the voting age population


by IVR Polls on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 07:19:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Final Texas Polls Basically Show a Tie Between (none / 0)

What % of the Hispanic population are citizens? (In border states this some times leads to discrepencys)?


by Socraticsilence on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 07:26:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Final Texas Polls Basically Show a Tie Between (none / 0)

Sorry, the 11% is African-Americans. Hispanics are about 33%, and I don't know what percent are citizens. Both groups include a large chunk that aren't registered to vote.


by IVR Polls on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 07:36:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Final Texas Polls Basically Show a Tie Between (2.00 / 1)

I doubt anyone other than those in the inner circle of a campaign have actual access to the true internals.

He would be campaigning HARD in Ohio today if he was that far behind.


by americanincanada on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 06:22:11 PM EST

Re: Final Texas Polls Basically Show a Tie Between (2.00 / 1)

"He would be campaigning HARD in Ohio today if he was that far behind."

Nope.  Clinton has to win OH, not Obama.


by mainelib on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 06:30:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Final Texas Polls Basically Show a Tie Between (none / 0)

His ground game in Ohio is phenomenal and that should keep it close but I think the demographics lead to a Hillary win (close though.)

Texas is another story, I have no intimate knowledge of his ground game there, but the demographics are more in his favor...so if his ground game is as good there as it is in Ohio I would be willing to bet on him winning (again though, it will be close.)


ENOUGH!
by JDF on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 06:48:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Final Texas Polls Basically Show a Tie Between (none / 0)

I think there is a 10-25% chance of him pulling a Mizzou with massive Columbus,Cincy,Cleveland turnout pushing him over the top.


by Socraticsilence on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 06:57:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Final Texas Polls Basically Show a Tie Between (none / 0)

I would be very pleased (and my friends who are there on the ground in Ohio even moreso) if that were the case.


ENOUGH!
by JDF on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 07:05:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Final Texas Polls Basically Show a Tie Between (none / 0)

Thats a pretty bold claim to make.


ENOUGH!
by JDF on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 06:49:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Final Texas Polls Basically Show a Tie Between (none / 0)

My point is this: whether it is a fact or not it isn't something worth saying because you aren't really going to talk about it and people are either going to choose to believe you or not. Either way, it doesn't score you points your make your previous statements more meaningful to anyone... so either you are telling the truth and bragging or you are bragging falsely...either way I doubt anyone is overly impressed.

If it is true you should just be happy about it and keep it to yourself and if it isn't you shouldn't put things like that out there unless you want to be ridiculed.


ENOUGH!
by JDF on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 06:59:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Final Texas Polls Basically Show a Tie Between (none / 0)

Oh my, a dual-pronged failed strategy!


I proudly support Barack Obama for President!
by Zeitgeist9000 on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 06:49:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Failed Strategy? (none / 0)

It's the same strategy from super tuesday- spend enough time to get the losing states close enough, run up the lead in the winning states.


by Brillobreaks on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 06:58:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Final Texas Polls Basically Show a Tie Between (none / 0)

As opposed to the Octopus of Failure that Hillary's used to make campaign decisions? (Maine, WA, VA, all major time spent, all lost by at least 19 points).


by Socraticsilence on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 06:59:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Final Texas Polls Basically Show a Tie Between (none / 0)

If weekend polls really meant anything, we would be talking about how to re-elect John Kerry.

The polls always tighten up near the end, and weekend polls always are disproven on election day.

So, don't go by the last polls...  look at turnout tomorrow... that will be the key!


It profits a PUMA nothing to give their soul for the whole world... but for McCain? --Sir Thomas More (if he were here now)
by LordMike on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 06:24:58 PM EST

Re: Final Texas Polls Basically Show a Tie Between (none / 0)

"weekend polls are always disproven on election day"

Really?

Always?

A weekend poll has never been right eh?


ENOUGH!
by JDF on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 06:50:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Final Texas Polls Basically Show a Tie Between (none / 0)

HRC has consistently polled 5-7% higher on the weekend (see her WI "comeback")


by Socraticsilence on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 07:00:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Final Texas Polls Basically Show a Tie Between (none / 0)

Fine... most of the time...

In 2006, the weekend polls had the republicans closing the congressional gap to almost even...

In 2004, the weekend polls had Kerry leading...

In 2000, the weekend polls had Bush running away with the election...

The weekend before an election polls are more often wrong than right, so take them with a grain of salt.  

Some of those weekend polls help Obama as well, BTW...


It profits a PUMA nothing to give their soul for the whole world... but for McCain? --Sir Thomas More (if he were here now)
by LordMike on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 08:56:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Tortoises and Hares... (none / 0)

Nowhere near the 20%+ differentials of a couple weeks ago, and not enough to eat into Obama's lead.  

Assuming they essentially tie tomorrow, and with Obama up 150ish delegates, how large do Clinton's victories in the upcoming states have to be to tie the race back up by the convention?


by Brillobreaks on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 06:26:22 PM EST

Re: Tortoises and Hares... (none / 0)

Well you have add to that lead with WY and MS both likely Obama routs before Hillary gets to PA.


by Socraticsilence on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 07:01:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hillary Wins! The day, not overall. (2.00 / 1)

I'm so torn. Do I make a "so, does Texas count again if she wins?" comment? Or something snarky like "I thought only Obamabots thrived on 'hope.'"

I could try to make the salient "tie goes to the runner" comment, the runner being Obama for closing in, yet again, on a prohibitive frontrunner... but then would I be accused of "moving the goalposts off the field?" (Which is another potential snark I could make on all this Hillary bliss.)

But I'll just let it go because Obama had maybe the worst news cycle of his campaign today -- what with the Rezko trial, the Canada stuff, the polls and the general adoption of Hillary's "media hates me so be meaner to Obama" zeitgeist (literally "acne-covered TV ghost") by the very same meanie media.

Plus, Hillary dodged any meaningful fallout from her Bizarre 60 Minutes quote. And that disasterous Penn interview? Could have dominated any other day...

All the people wondering if Obama can withstand bad news, here's the test. With no late news coming his way, Obama will have to face another day of this narrative of what "winning" would be for Hllary. (Already the discussion is more about what Hillary needs to survive more than what Obama needs to win -- which could go either way.)

So far, Obama hasn't done too well. They should have been ahead of this Rezko stuff well into the weekend, a friday dump would have been much better. And even though the Canada stuff is overblown by 10, he's had to be on the "explaining himself" side, which, fairly or not, is always the loosing side. (And has been where Hillary has landed most other days, which is more to blame than any ridiculous media conspiracy.)

So, C- performance for Obama today, (Plouf got a needed jibe in with the goalposts comment, saving them from a "D," and it's getting play) after weeks of As. And combined with the SNL hype (the performance itself, notsogood), an A+ for Clinton in the clutch, who had been bopping between Bs and Ds all month.

So, congrats Hillary's people! Enjoy tonight's daily show!

Snark returns tomorrow.

Viva Democracy, drained of all spirit!

-e


Fight the Smears!
by Lettuce on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 06:28:47 PM EST

Obama and Clinton (2.00 / 1)

obama will blow her out in wyoming and mississippi
so much for the comeback kid

unless those states dont matter


by chriscizzila on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 06:38:35 PM EST

Re: Final Texas Polls Basically (none / 0)

Don't forget that early voting has favored Obama by around 12%. So while is momentum may be stalled now, he had it a few days ago when voters were voting early.


by mecarr on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 06:42:20 PM EST

Re: Final Texas Polls Basically (none / 0)

not according to SUSA.


by arkansasdemocrat on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 06:45:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Final Texas Polls Basically Show a Tie Between (none / 0)

i think what hasn't been talked about is who actually votes early? is it old folks, women, men, "minorities"?

My guess is older folks are most likely to vote early en masse, especially those retired.

in any regards, I would be willing to bet that early voters will break for Hillary at a higher clip. I would expect Hillary's lead when numbers are first reported to be large in Ohio (+10-14).

Another thing to note is how urban districts might break. Expect Ohio's inner cities to break at a much, much higher percentage for Obama (less latinos and more blacks). The demographics for these states are incredibly different.

Hypothetically, a 58(c)-42(o) split in the beginning of the night (OH) could end up 52(c)-48(o) whereas in Texas, high latino populations in major cities should stabalize any potential swing in favor of Obama. Well, barring a situation where much of El Paso or South Dallas hold out until the 11th hour to report.


!
by alex100 on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 07:03:09 PM EST

Re: IVR Poll (none / 0)

To clarify - those percentages are of the AA's or Hispanics that vote in a primary, not of the entire population. I did have voters say they weren't going to vote in either primary


by IVR Polls on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 07:40:15 PM EST

Let's Let it play out... but consider this: (2.00 / 1)

I think the Primary vote (which is what is being polled) will be close...probably Obama or Clinton either within 3-5.  We can ALL agree on that, right?

In the Caucasses, however, Obama...because of his $$ and resultant ground game...will clean up.

He will likely end the day with a net gain of 10-20 delgates.  Clinton will stave off INSTANT self-reomval, but the words of Bill Richardson will follow her around.  If she doesn't set a timeline for tieing up in delegates, the rest of the DNC elders will slowly place more pressure on her to drop out.

When you see Al Gore or Jimmy Carter come out and endorse...you'll know she waited TOO LONG.

I personally fear for the Clinton brand. She is  risking a lot by staying in too long.


by a gunslinger on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 07:49:51 PM EST

Re: Final Texas Polls (2.00 / 1)

Congratulations Clinton people.  It looks like your candidate has made a comeback.  Well you can say goodbye to some key seats in the House now and don't count Colorado or Minnesota a pickup in the Senate anymore because it aint happening with Hillary at the top of the ticket.  


by Toddwell on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 08:36:18 PM EST

Re: Final Texas Polls (none / 0)

Everything is her fault, and nothing is His.


by demmonty on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 09:01:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Final Texas Polls (none / 0)

Hey at least Dems will win the White House if Hillary does indeed have a "comeback." I am convinced the WH is lost if Obama is the nominee.


by Marvin42 on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 12:47:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]


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