Faulting Hillary for 'failing' with healthcare WORSE THAN A LIE

From what I understand Obama has openly criticized Hillary for putting forward the Clinton-care proposal in 1993, because it wasn't adopted by a bipartisan vote.. because it did not please the big business interests.

Thats interesting, because look WHOSE 'plan' does. And why? Because it dumps most of the cost back onto the people of America, thats why. Because we will continue to pay far more and get far less. Even according to the National Review - of all places.. read the below, summarizing why the Clintons failed..their plan would not have placed a high enough burden on the people!

See http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1282/is_n4_v46/ai_14885300/pg_1 Its written from the employers perspective..

To those who insist that Obama intends to make healthcare affordable, I STRONGLY suggest you read Obama's plan carefully, and then do some research into the years of research that has been done exploring the fairly limited number of ways that healthcare can be financed. Especially the things that happened in 1993. (which tell us a lot about why big business is so heavily behind Obama NOW.)

Obama's plan WON'T make healthcare affordable for the people. It will make it affordable FOR BUSINESS. Thats what he means..partly. How blind can people be!?!

The mandate for everyone to buy it is important because like it or not, that is also a mandate that it ACTUALLY BE AFFORDABLE.. Obama's plan is DESTINED, some would say, DESIGNED, to fail, BECAUSE HEALTHY PEOPLE WILL OPT OUT.

A far better approach is to make it mandatory, AND THEN SUBSIDIZE THE COST FOR POOR AND MIDDLE CLASS PEOPLE SUBSTANTIALLY.

Its the ONLY way..

DECADES of statistical modeling work that has been done ALL OVER THE WORLD show this.

That work shows conclusively what Hillary has been trying to explain to Americans. That under Obama's (non-) 'plan' THE NUMBER OF UNINSURED AMERICANS WILL CONTINUE TO RISE AND HEALTHCARE WILL CONTINUE TO GET LESS AND LESS AFFORDABLE FOR MOST AMERICANS.

If you doubt that THAT IS HIGHLY PROBABLE, you need only to look at WHO Obama has in his campaign as his current point man on healthcare issues, THE VERY SAME PERSON WHO PUT FORWARD THE MANDATE-LESS "CLINTON-LITE" proposal that effectively KILLED HILLARY's 1993 UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE PLAN.. Jim Cooper...

in 1993, employers and the corporate world preferred Jim Cooper's Clinton Lite to the real thing for one reason especially. It would cost them far less and the consumer FAR more. And they won. They killed the Clinton plan. With Jim Cooper's help. They dodged a bullet. And America went through 15 more years of healthcare hell.

But now, HE's BAAACK.. and he is WORKING FOR OBAMA...

Almost 70% of American want univeral healthcare. They want a semblance of REAL stability in their lives, not a false promise.

Polls tell us that. We all deserve better than what we will get with Jim Cooper and Obama. This is the BIG reason the corporate world is giving so much to Obama.

The GOP, desperate to have Obama be the Dem nominee, are desperately spinning the 1993 story to try to cover up the fact that it was in essence, Obama's plan- the honor system, voluntary plan without employer mandates, that was the universal healthcare killer.

Jim Cooper.. Clinton-Lite ... how soon we forget...

So anybody who is trying to 'blame' Hillary for 'failing' had better take another look at Obama's plan.. WHICH HAS BEEN SHOWN BY YEARS OF STATISTICAL MODELING TO NOT BE A SOLUTION.

Its an important difference.. The biggest problem is that without a requirement that everybody buy (then-AFFORDABLE) health insurance, the sheer number of people who will not be able to buy the affordable insurance will make it unaffordable to those who need it. This is simple math.

Obama can't make money out of thin air.. he cant ask insurance companies to operate 'at a loss'. That is his plans Achilles heel.

Say the cost of insurance for a family of four under a mandated universal healthcare insurance is $0 - $400 a month, depending on income. That will be affordable..

But if there is no mandate, instead, you will have a situation where if anyone in that family is over 40 or 50, or has any kind of medical condition, the insurance will inherently be much more expensive BECAUSE IT DOES NOT HAVE THE HEALTHY PEOPLE ON BOARD TO DILUTE THE PRICE..

This is the INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT FLAW IN OBAMA's PLAN, and ITS INTENTIONAL.

Obama's choice of Jim Cooper tells us that Obama does not want universal healthcare for America. He wants to continue the current dysfunctional system.

Look at what they DO, NOT what they SAY

Decades of statistical modeling, all over the world, say this is the way it is.


Poll
Is Obama's avoidance of a WORKING solution on healthcare and his choice of Jim Cooper, the man whose plan killed universal healthcare in 1993, a CAUSE FOR SERIOUS CONCERN?
Yes, I want a plan that has a chance of WORKING to make health insurance BOTH really affordable for people, AND available to ALL, nomatter what their health status, and NOT just one of those two at a time.
No, I think we can trust Obama that Jim Cooper's "Clinton Lite" redux, will make insurance affordable for employers at least. And if people can afford the premiums, they wont be able to turn them away
What, me worry? I am self-insured

Votes: 14
Results : Vote Link : Polls

Display:


he said Clinton failed because... (2.00 / 2)

she didn't create a "working majority," whatever the hell that means. He is all snake oil.


"there is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured by what is right in America"-William Jefferson Clinton, forty-second President of the United States
by DiamondJay on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 08:29:11 PM EST

Better to not try at all (none / 0)

remain an enigma! It carries less risk!


by catfish1 on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 09:11:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Maybe this is what he meant.. (2.00 / 2)

Basically, you can't please business and the right, and the people at the same time.. So Clinton's plan did not get buy in from big business, they preferred Jim Cooper's predecessor of "Obama-care" because it shifted costs to the consumer and "made them responsible for their own health" - financially..

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.ht ml?res=9C01EFD71231F937A3575BC0A96295826 0&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all


public option=not affordable for middle. It cant cover all affordably, google adverse selection for why
by architek on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 09:46:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

how ironic (none / 0)

Obama criticizing Clinton for being in bed with lobbyists and he is with the people, even tho the reason Clinton coudln't get healthcare was because they PUT PEOPLE FIRST. Not political rhetoric first, as Obama does


"there is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured by what is right in America"-William Jefferson Clinton, forty-second President of the United States
by DiamondJay on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 12:21:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: he said Clinton failed because... (none / 0)

Seems pretty obvious to me... a working majority would be a majority, clearly, and it would work. A working majority would pass a piece of legislation; a non-working majority, or a working minority, or anything else would not pass it.

Her health care plan did not pass. There was Democratic congress and a Democratic president. Obama was not around in 1992 to torpedo it. If she had been able to put together a working majority in Congress, it'd have become law.

The real point of all this is: why do you believe that she's capable of putting together a working majority and getting anything passed in 2009? What's changed since 1993?


No Way. No How. No McCain-Palin!
by Texas Gray Wolf on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 10:25:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

the Reagan Revolution is distant past (2.00 / 1)

and in 1993, the Clintons had only won because they were not Bush, and minus Perot, they still win, as done by exit polls and pre-election 2 way polls, and Bush Sr's Carteresque approval ratings. Thats how they got to office. The country was coming off the heels of a radically conservative 12 year movement, where they had been told government was bad. Also, many of the Dems were "boll weevils", or simply DINOs. The difference between 1993 and 2009 will be that we have suffered 8 years of Reagan-Bush conservatism, and people did not like the 8 years of it, as Bush only won 04 because of the "horse in midstream" bullshit. America will support the Clintons next go around because they were proven competent in office, especially by comparison to the GOPers from 2001-2009. Government help is no longer an enigma, as it was in the early 90's and '80s.


"there is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured by what is right in America"-William Jefferson Clinton, forty-second President of the United States
by DiamondJay on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 12:18:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: he said Clinton failed because... (2.00 / 1)

"she didn't create a "working majority," whatever the hell that means.

Yes, that snake Jim Cooper, a conservative democrat, killed her support for universal health care.


by 07rescue on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 07:43:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Why did he hire Jim Cooper? (2.00 / 2)

That tells us a lot about Obama's true intentions.. more than anything else that I can see.

THIS IS NOT WHAT AMERICA WANTS AT ALL..


public option=not affordable for middle. It cant cover all affordably, google adverse selection for why
by architek on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 08:35:49 PM EST

Obama should be judged by the... (2.00 / 2)

company he keeps...which is not great!

Cooper.
McPeak.
Powers.
Axelrod.
That creep that counsels on NAFTA.

NOT a great line-up, is it?


by Shazone on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 08:36:25 PM EST

Goolsbee!!!!! (none / 0)

Just add him to the list above...where it talks about the creep and NAFTA!

Thanks.


by Shazone on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 08:39:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Read this article from early 1994 (none / 0)

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1 282/is_n4_v46/ai_14885300/pg_1


public option=not affordable for middle. It cant cover all affordably, google adverse selection for why
by architek on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 09:00:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

My impressions (none / 0)

I am not a specialist in health care, but I have a friend who is.  He knows more about health care than anyone I know.  This is what he told me.

Hillary's earlier health plan that was rejected was not that good.  She met with executives of 6 companies in a mountain state, like Colorado, and drew up a plan that would eliminate all health plans except those 6 health plans whose executives met with her.  It was a big business plan.  If I have stated something wrong I would appreciate any corrections.  I do not think he visits this site.  When I see him I will try to find out more.


by realtime on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 09:45:05 PM EST

Everything that I have read implies that it was (2.00 / 2)

good.. but it relies too much on employers..

Experts are saying that the 21st century (post-industrial) era will be an era of project-based rather than job based employment.

That means that many people wont have employers, or will be independent contractors, or will spend long periods unemployed, with periods of employment as well. Many simply will not have any skills that will get them employment.

That is why we should have single payer health care, otherwise, fewer and fewer people will be able to get insurance..


public option=not affordable for middle. It cant cover all affordably, google adverse selection for why
by architek on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 09:55:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My impressions (2.00 / 2)

This is an enormous and unfair oversimplification.  The original bill was over 1,000 pages and appropriately complex. If you care to look, here is a link to the original.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c1 03:H.R.3600.IH:

It was not without its flaws and informed detractors, nor was it meant to be the last word.  It was defeated by a coalition of the insurance industry (which funneled literally 100's of millions of dollars into the campaign to defeat the bill, including the Harry & Louise ads run recently by Obama), libertarians and the right wing.  Many democratic leaders were not courageous enough to support such a "big government" proposal.

That such a bold important effort, undertaken just three days after Bill's inauguration, should have morphed into a stinking dead fish around Hillary's neck for 15 years, even in the eyes of "progressives," is testament to the power of the Clinton haters mind control program.

Think about it, for god's sake, she understood the profound misery of being poor, having a sick child and not being able to pay for surgery, and was committed to the principle that it is government's first responsibility to alleviate misery and fear.  
And this is an argument against her???


On to the Convention Floor!
by oh puhleeze on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 11:02:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My impressions (2.00 / 1)

"Hillary's earlier health plan that was rejected was not that good." Hillary started out favoring a plan that was a variation of a single payer plan, but in the process of being attacked as too liberal over and over by Jim Cooper and other conservative Democrats she had more move more and more to the right, so what she ended up with was an extremely complex plan that tried to work with business instead of creating a publicly administered programs like Medicare. When you try to keep business in the picture the plan becomes impossibly complex and expensive, because you have to include their profits and high administrative costs. The plan proved to be impossible to get support for because it was too complex to explain to people, and was easily assaulted and killed by the infamous "Harry and Louise" ads, funded by the insurance companies..  


by 07rescue on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 08:08:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Faulting Hillary for 'failing' with healthcare (none / 0)

lol could your polls questions be any more loaded?

is there an "I can't answer this poll because the diarist has so loaded the poll options that I can't actually choose any of the options"?


Dream for tomorrow but fight for it today.
by TruthMatters on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 09:55:02 PM EST

What would you suggest? (none / 0)

seriously..


public option=not affordable for middle. It cant cover all affordably, google adverse selection for why
by architek on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 09:56:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Mandate single payer (2.00 / 2)

As your diary noted, the mandated approach is better because everyone pays in to create the largest possible financial pool and the largest possible risk pool. However, Hillary bases her mandate on a commercial system which includes profits for stockholders, inflated CEO salaries and bonuses, wasteful costs for advertising, plus inefficient administrative costs. The only thing keeping Hillary from dropping these extraneous costs is her obligations to the corporate insurance industry and her unwillingness to fight that battle. The same is true of Barack Obama although he is not mandating adults to buy commercial insurance; he is only mandating parents to buy commercial insurance for their children which is far less expensive than insurance for adults but still more expensive than it might be if it was non-commercial single payer. Both candidates promise to "cut costs" and "regulate" the commercial insurance companies although most of the measures we hear of are fairly ineffectual. It's very difficult to regulate corporations.

One major flaw in Hillary's plan is that she is not insisting that commercial insurance companies use the lion's share of the gigantic financial windfall (that will result from mandating every single American to buy one of their insurance policies) to cover the low income margins. Instead she's insisting the government subsidize commercial insurance premiums to make them "affordable." Sen Obama says much the same thing on subsidizing commercial insurance premiums to "make them more affordable." This is outrageous -- to use the public treasury to underwrite profit-making corporations who are essentially unregulated with very few controls on the pricing of their policies and how they do business, their high co-pays and deductibles, their dropped policies, their refusal of treatment, all sorts of arbitrary injustices that we are all aware of, none of which would happen under single-payer. Even within the commercial system that Hillary proposes, I'm surprised that no one is challenging Clinton on the issue of the mandated windfall to demand that she insist on commercial carriers using most of that windfall to cover the low-income margins instead of sandbagging the government already in deep deficit.

Anyway, neither candidate has the courage to embrace the tiger and go for single payer which, of all issues that could benefit average Americans, would be the most beneficial, not only for better quality and more dependable healthcare but huge cost savings to families, businesses, states and the federal government.

Obama and Clinton have two excellent options they can point to for single-payer in the real world, one the potential of a state "pilot project" in the form of SB 840, Califiornia's single payer bill which has already passed the legislature once; was vetoed by The Terminator, and is coming through the legislature again. There's a huge grassroots movement in California, the world's fifth-largest economy, to get single-payer passed, publicly funded, privately delivered healthcare wherein we have full doctor choice and doctors maintain their autonomous practices. Someday single payer will pass and be signed by an enlightened California governor.

They can also point to the national bill in the House sponsored by Rep. John Conyers, HR 676 commonly known as "Medicare for All" but better than Medicare because it will not be privatized and its trust fund will not be raided.

If the candidates don't have the courage to look to these options, we'd do!

by purr on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 04:16:08 AM EST

Obama would veto the Conyers bill, I suspect. (2.00 / 1)

He clearly has a big committment to the insurance companies as shown by their financial support of him.

I think Hillary's goal has, from the beginning, been a workable solution to this MESS, so she would sign it.

PRAY...


public option=not affordable for middle. It cant cover all affordably, google adverse selection for why
by architek on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 08:25:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

That is: We do! (nt) (none / 0)


by purr on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:37:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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