MyDD :: UPDATE - Clinton's Wright gamble: Knock down Obama or face blowback

UPDATE - Clinton's Wright gamble: Knock down Obama or face blowback

by Bob Johnson, Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 02:39:09 PM EST

Today, we get a report from the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review that quotes Hillary Clinton thusly on the matter of Reverend Wright:

"He would not have been my pastor," Clinton said. "You don't choose your family, but you choose what church you want to attend."

...

"You know, I spoke out against Don Imus (who was fired from his radio and television shows after making racially insensitive remarks), saying that hate speech was unacceptable in any setting, and I believe that," Clinton said. "I just think you have to speak out against that. You certainly have to do that, if not explicitly, then implicitly by getting up and moving."

Keep in mind that a poll taken after Obama's speech on the matter showed that most voters (69%) thought Obama did a good job explaining his relationship to Wright. The poll was taken among all voters, so we can likely assume that Obama's speech was viewed even more favorably by Democrats.

In addition, Obama's speech is among YouTube's Top Five viewed videos this month with over three million views. (As a side note, Clinton's Tuzla fib video is currently #1 in the daily rankings with nearly 700,000 views.)

The latest Gallup Daily Tracking Poll has Obama and Clinton essentially tied among Democrats. Simply put, most Dem voters like both candidates. And apart from hardcore candidate partisans we find on places like Daily Kos or MyDD, most Democrats want the bitterness and acrimony to end.

So how will Clinton's Wright gamble play among primary voters in Pennsylvania and subsequent states, and among superdelegates? Will it erode Obama's support? Or will it backfire and appear to be the last gasp of a desperate candidate?

I think the jury is still out. But I think that Clinton backers celebrating her Obama-Wright call-out may be premature in their cheering.

Update [2008-3-25 15:29:35 by Bob Johnson]:

Clinton surrogate adds to Wright pile-on; likens Wright to David Duke

Well, any doubts that about this being part of the Clinton campaign strategy are rapidly disappearing:

The Wright Stuff is coming fast and furious from Hillary and her supporters. First Hillary criticized Obama today for not sufficiently distancing himself from the controversial pastor. I've now learned that a member of Hillary's finance committee and a longtime ally of the Clintons has made some very explicit statements about Barack Obama's ties to his controversial minister, Jeremiah Wright, saying that it's "legitimate" to raise questions about those ties, comparing Wright to David Duke, and claiming that Obama has "used race where it suited him."

I don't know how this line of attack is going to sit with superdelegates, but I can't imagine it will be good.

Tags: Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, Jeremiah Wright (all tags)

Permalink :: 115 Comments :: Post a Comment

good for hill (2.00 / 4)

She responded to a question. It's not like she voiced this from the hilltops.

But she was right in what she said. A leading Dem needed to add some sane perspective to this.

by njsketch on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 02:41:14 PM EST

It's not a question of being right or wrong. (none / 0)

I think it's more a question of how it plays. Politicians avoid answering questions all the time. The fact that she chose to answer it has consequences. We'll see how it plays out.

by Bob Johnson on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 02:43:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's not a question of being right or wrong. (2.00 / 1)

Her answer was spot on and I'm glad she gave it.

Wright is a game-ender your Messiah. He may be able to fool some Democrats, but America will surely reject this farce of a candidate.

I'll vote for the guy, but he can suck my big toe...btw, what happened to the cute lil Presidential Seal he made up?

by BRockNYC on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 02:54:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

We shall see, BRock. (2.00 / 1)

Time will tell.

by Bob Johnson on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 02:58:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: We shall see, BRock. (2.00 / 0)

Hopefully we will not see. Hopefully, the Dems will wake up from this nightmare of a candidate and come to our collective senses.

I'll vote for the guy, but he can suck my big toe...btw, what happened to the cute lil Presidential Seal he made up?

by BRockNYC on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 03:11:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Are you another Clinton supporter who will not (none / 0)

... back Obama if he is the nominee?

by Bob Johnson on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 03:13:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Are you another Clinton supporter who will not (2.00 / 0)

No, I'll vote for yet another loser Democrat. Sigh.

I'll vote for the guy, but he can suck my big toe...btw, what happened to the cute lil Presidential Seal he made up?

by BRockNYC on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 04:43:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I don't think he is a nightmare (2.00 / 0)

a sure fire loser in the general, but I do think that most democrats give him the benefit of the doubt. The question is, however, whether or not independents will give him that same benefit.

I would rather not risk it and being the cynic that I am, don't think there is a chance in hell that independents in this country will give him that benefit.

by linc on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 03:23:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's not a question of being right or wrong. (none / 0)

A bold prediction, but one unsupported by either fact nor logic.

by Cycloptichorn on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 02:59:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's not a question of being right or wrong. (2.00 / 2)

It is a dangerous game for Hillary to sully the reputation of her opponent based upon comments made, not by Obama himself, but by a person with whom Obama has been associated. It opens Hillary to criticism of the words and actions of the persons with whom she has chosen to associate. Where was Hillary's "implicit" speaking out when she served on the board of Walmart, a company notorious for its poor treatment of workers? Where was Hillary's "implicit" speaking out when she made Mark Penn her chief strategist despite the fact that he served as CEO of Burson-Marsteller--a firm hired to clean the image of such despicable clients as Blackwater and military junta leaders in Argentina and Nigeria? I don't necessarily fault Clinton for all of the evil deeds done by her associates, but by her own standards, she should have spoken out against them but did not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burson-Mars teller

by DreamsOfABlueNation on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 03:22:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

That first sentence you have there is so true (2.00 / 0)

not just for Clinton, but also for Obama and his campaign and the way in which they pushed HRC's campaign as racist in order to rack up the votes in the south.

Thank you.

by linc on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 03:24:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That first sentence you have there is so true (none / 0)

When did Obama state (or even imply) that Hillary was a racist. Members of his campaign have questioned the racial sensitivity of some of her husbands remarks (most notably his elevation of LBJ's efforts over those of Martin Luther King in the quest for civil rights), but I certainly never heard anyone call Hillary a racist, and even those who may have insinuated such a thing have been repudiated by Obama's campaign.

by DreamsOfABlueNation on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 03:34:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I think you all refer to it as race baiting (1.00 / 1)

Just because Obama's audience was black, doesn't mean they can't be baited into voting against someone because of a perceived racist remark.

You really should do some reading up. It was Hillary that talked about LBJ and MLK and if you actually read what she said instead of just repeating what is told to you, then you would realize that she actually said that they needed each other. If you knew anything about the way in which MLK operated, then you would know that MLK would probably agree with Clinton.

Who do you think said 'we shall overcome' and helped push that march from Montgomery forward? It was LBJ.

Do you have any idea who John Lewis is? He was that other guy who was present when LBJ signed the civil rights act. He has specifically said that what Clinton said was the truth and not racist at all.

And if you need more, here is the lovely memo that the Obama campaign pushed in SC before the primary there. If this isn't race baiting, I don't know what is:

Scroll down for the memo

by linc on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 04:02:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

We know how it plays, Bob (1.50 / 2)

Key facts you forgot in your spin...

From Rasmussen:

Seventy-three percent (73%) of voters say that Wright's comments are racially divisive. That opinion is held by 77% of White voters and 58% of African-American voters.

Most voters, 56%, said Wright's comments made them less likely to vote for Obama. That figure includes 44% of Democrats. Just 11% of voters say they are more likely to vote for Obama because of Wright's comments.

Then there's this:

The results of the latest Insider Advantage poll on the Obama-Wright controversy are jaw-dropping.

First, 82 percent of respondents are aware of "the situation regarding Sen. Barack Obama's church pastor and the past public remarks he has made," and somehow, 83 percent are aware of "Obama's speech on Tuesday, in which he addressed the issue of his pastor."

Asked of all voters, "taking all this into account, are you more likely or less likely to support Obama for president" -- 20 percent more likely, 49 percent less likely, 27 percent about the same.

Among those who answered that they were "aware" to the first two questions, 19 percent said they were more likely to support Obama, 52 percent said they were less likely, and 27 percent the same.

Among whites, the "less likely" answer came from 51.3 percent. Among blacks, it was 56.2 percent. Among Hispanics, 54.5 percent.

Among Republicans, the "less likely" crowd was 53.7 percent, among Democrats it was 47.6 percent, among Independents it was 55.6 percent.

I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.

by KnowVox on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 02:57:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

We shall see, Know. (2.00 / 2)

The polls will tell the story.

by Bob Johnson on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 02:58:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

We already know, Bob (2.00 / 1)

Wright's messages of hate and division have NOT been warmly received by the American public, and voters continue to question Obama's judgment in associating with him.

I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.

by KnowVox on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 03:07:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

He's closed the gap to 10 in PA according to (2.00 / 1)

... today's Rasmussen poll.

I'm not sure your point of view is substantiated by the facts.

by Bob Johnson on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 03:13:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He's closed the gap to 10 in PA according to (none / 0)

add to that Obama's 20 pt lead in North Carolina - previous poll had it a 1 point lead

by uscpdx1 on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 03:17:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rasmussen Poll (none / 0)

Read the Rasmussen poll again, Bob. Hillary still leads in every category:

In the Democratic Presidential Nomination, it's Clinton 46%, Obama 43%.... New polling data from Pennsylvania shows Clinton with a ten-point late in the Keystone State's April 22 Primary.

Clinton is currently viewed favorably by 74% of Democrats nationwide, Obama by 67%.

I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.

by KnowVox on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 03:29:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He's closed the gap to 10 in PA according to (none / 0)

Well in truth the poll showed no change. Hillary was up 51 to 39 and now it is 49 to 39 so i think no change would be better. And Rasmussen has always had HRC lead somewhat lower. Many other polls have HRC up between 15 and 20% or more. I think what this shows the race is unchanged.

So imho this poll shows no change and BO is still at less that 40% and if OH and TX as well as many other states are to be beleived undecides seem to break HRC.

IMHO she will still get 60% but anything can happen.

david

by giusd on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 03:24:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: HRC in PA (none / 0)

No question Hillary still has a commanding lead in PA.

I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.

by KnowVox on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 03:31:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's not a question of being right or wrong. (none / 0)

What should she had answered - Ask Barack -

Then the press and BHO people would have had a field day saying that she does not want to answer the race question.

Please stop spinning this. This was a legitimate question that needed to be answered.

by indus on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 02:59:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Well... (2.00 / 2)

Its actually the common sense thing she should have said all along.

allprogressives.com

by Scan on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 02:41:37 PM EST

Re: Clinton's Wright gamble: Knock down Obama or f (2.00 / 1)

Hillary's response was all net.

Nothing that even an Obama supporter could twist into something "outrageous".

by frankly0 on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 02:43:51 PM EST

actually (none / 0)

that was on the par of Michelle Obama's "run your own house comments"

-- be excellent to each other

by kindthoughts on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 02:50:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: actually (none / 0)

hardly

by AnnC on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 03:11:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

So is she going to denounce... (none / 0)

... and reject Billy Graham and The Fellowship now?

by kraant on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 10:29:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's Wright gamble: Knock down Obama or f (1.00 / 1)

I disagree BO suppoters can and will try to twist this into something outrageous. The will call it knockdowngate - HRC will say anything and is a lier.

david

by giusd on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 03:27:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's Wright gamble (1.75 / 4)

I'm sorry - but this is the reason that hillary needs to get out of the race

This is absolutely classless

Imagine the Clinton's outrage (and the outrage on this site) if Obama had said, "Well you CAN choose your husband." or "I would not stay with my spouse if she cheated on me."

Comments like these are the reason so many of us have had it with the clintons

by uscpdx1 on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 02:44:33 PM EST

Re: Clinton's Wright gamble (2.00 / 2)

You are not making much sense.

When I speak I have a southern drawl.. When you come down here Stop and say hello I'm an American from south of the Mason Dixon line

by lori on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 02:46:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It's this thing called divorce... (none / 0)

... I hear it's the normal way to fire a spouse.

by kraant on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 10:30:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's Wright gamble (2.00 / 0)

"I'm sorry - but this is the reason that hillary needs to get out of the race."

Today's reason, you mean. It changes every day, with the latest minor news story being the new, conclusive proof that she's destroying the party and the country.

Yawn.

by KevinCinNYC on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 02:47:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's Wright gamble (none / 0)

you hillary people need to take off the clinton colored glasses

She could hve chosen to offer "No comment" but she wants to politicize this and keep it in the news

especially after her "misstatement" about Bosnia

BTW, I am writing this entry under heavy sniper fire

by uscpdx1 on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 02:50:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's Wright gamble (2.00 / 1)

Us "Hillary people" don't need to do anything to please you. Last time I checked, we were free to look at the same information and choices, and come to a different conclusion than you.

by KevinCinNYC on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 02:53:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hillary is Huckabee (none / 0)

Yes you are free to continue living in your my pretty pony world, where everyone gets a unicorn and rainbows taste like lollipops and Clintons are saints and can do no wrong.

by munodi on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 04:24:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary is Huckabee (2.00 / 0)

And Republicans lay down their weapons and unite behind the one great Democratic Messiah who will lead us to the promise land.

Better chance of getting a unicorn.

by KevinCinNYC on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 04:38:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's Wright gamble (none / 0)

Awe someone is afraid of highlighting Obama's lack of judgement, character and spine.

Are you so afraid that Wright can rightfulling hurt Obama? Why convert your fear of reality into hatred for Hillary?

It is not good for your soul.

by Sandeep on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 02:56:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's Wright gamble (none / 0)

Don't "hate" clinton... sorry to disappoint you

But I am sorry that many of you on this site WANT this issue or any issue to take Obama down so that hillary can win... its sad - dems rooting for dems to falter

After the last primaries, if clinton is STILL behind in delegates and votes, will you guys on this site support Obama, or will you continue to trash him?

by uscpdx1 on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 03:03:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

"Lack of judgment, character, (none / 0)

and spine". Talking about the Clintons again?

Oh, and there is no "e" in the word judgment.

by beachmom on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 03:49:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

There's an e between m and n (none / 0)

If you're going to make fun of somebody for spelling, do it more carefully.

by KevinCinNYC on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 03:59:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Misstatements from BHO (2.00 / 0)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=9JQ4YXC_bjQ

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Ft6cZjPw79Q

by indus on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 03:03:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's Wright gamble (2.00 / 1)

Where is the logical connection between making that comment about someone's spouse and someone's pastor?

Whether you stay with your spouse or not after adultery is a totally personal matter between the two people in the relationship.

If you go to a preacher for 20 years who spouts hate and ignorance, that says something about your judgement (or lack thereof).

So, please, stop throwing out this red herring of how Obama hasn't made comments about the Clinton's marriage (even though his advisor did bring up the stained dress), like it is somehow equivalent to questioning his association to Wright.

by leozh on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 02:55:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's Wright gamble (2.00 / 1)

I think her comments about not CHOOSING family but choosing your pastor does make the connection credible

The fact is, Bill did an awful thing to Hillary - yes she chose to stay with him... it is personal, but also says something about her judgment

In Obama's case, he remained at the church despite disagreeing with his Pastor on some of this statements, probably because of his close relationship with him on a personal level

So, how is this really different?

BTW - Obama himself did not make references to monica...but Hillary did make these comments herself - not through a surrogate

by uscpdx1 on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 03:08:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's Wright gamble (2.00 / 1)

Who cares if its through a surrogate or not? Unlike these comments by Hillary, the comments about the stained dress were pure smear.

Yes, Bill did an awful thing to Hillary, but does it really say something bad about her character that she decided to keep her family together and forgive him? Certainly not everyone would have made their decision, but it's a personal decision and there is no clear right or wrong choice either way.

Remaining at a racist, anti-American church for 20 years, where you get married, send your kids and donate over $20,000 to clearly is an indicator of bad judgement. It's not a personal issue, or a family issue, it's a clear choice that Obama made, to stick with a pastor and a church, which clearly espouses radical, anti-American views.

by leozh on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 03:14:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's Wright gamble (none / 0)

Careful not to believe everything that Pat Buchanan or the idiots on Fox Noise want you to believe

Do you really think that these 30 second clips of Wright represent ALL of his sermons or his commitment to teaching the Bible?

This is the point Obama mde in his speech - that these 30 second sound bytes, while reprehensible, do not represent who Wright has been for the last 30 years - this is why he was able to stay in this church

BTW - the guy was a Marine -Not excusing what he said, but do you really think he is anti-american and hates his country?

Stop blathering right wing talking points

by uscpdx1 on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 03:22:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's Wright gamble (2.00 / 0)

I am aware that these are 30 second clips, but I would be pretty accurate in saying that in most mainstream churches, you don't hear this kind of stuff, even for 30 seconds. The sentiment and anger behind the clips comes from somewhere. While I am sure that most of his sermons were not political, these were most certainly not the only controversial statements he has made. I am sure more tapes will be discovered.

After being in a church for 20 years, unless you are stupid, you know what the church and the pastor is all about, so to say that these are isolated clips and overall the church was good for Obama to be in is completely false. Even Obama himself has said that he has heard Wright say controversial things. Why did he stick around in the church since he knew his pastor made such reprehensible remarks?

by leozh on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 03:33:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's Wright gamble (none / 0)

So then if you were enslaved, tortured, had your children taken away, sold on a auction block and numerous other monstrous things, you wouldn't be angry???

by munodi on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 04:30:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's Wright gamble (none / 0)

All that happened to Jeremiah Wright? I didn't realize he was the reincarnation of Henry "Box" Brown.

by KevinCinNYC on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 04:40:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

If Hillary were Obama, (none / 0)

she would be bringing up the "blue dress" every week of every month for the entire campaign. Obama has been HONORABLE in not dredging up the infinite baggage the Clintons own. Yet, ONE SURROGATE lets something slip out once, and y'all are shouting "smear"!!! Too damned funny. If you could get out of your bubble for one minute you would see how dishonorable the Clinton campaign has been. That and their inability to count makes them a truly absurd enterprise this late in the game.

by beachmom on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 03:55:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If Hillary were Obama, (2.00 / 0)

Oh yes, Obama's campaign has been so honorable. They've compared Bill Clinton to McCarthy, brought back every Republican smear against the Clintons from the 90s, participated in rampant race-baiting, and distorted the Hillary Clinton's record. Meanwhile, Obama attends a racist America-hater's church for 20 years and Hillary brings it up and somehow this is dishonorable.

What is dishonorable is that now the Obama supporters are scared that his popularity is going down and so they are calling for Hillary to step aside. It's so disingenuous that anybody can see through it.

by leozh on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 04:32:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's Wright gamble (2.00 / 1)

"The fact is, Bill did an awful thing to Hillary - yes she chose to stay with him... it is personal, but also says something about her judgment"

Many people believe very strongly that the institution of marriage is a bond that constitutes "family", not a casual relationship that you throw away when there is trouble. Many people respect her more because she chose to work it out.

by 07rescue on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 03:24:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

While doing vicious oppo work (none / 0)

against the women Clinton sexually harrassed. That's the part of the story we Democrats have failed to acknowledge and talk about.

by beachmom on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 03:57:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WoWWWW (none / 0)

What do you expect???? Oh, no I LOVE WRIGHT!

by judas on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 02:55:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Her comments were pretty tame (1.50 / 2)

And the Imus comparison apt. Given what Wright said about the Clintons specifically, she was remarkably civil about it.

I had the same reaction she did, almost word for word. I wouldn't stay in a church where the pastor spoke like that. Religious leaders who divide rather than unite have lost sight of their mission.

"God damn America" just sounds too similar to me to what Falwell and Robertson said during the same post-9/11 period.

I read a quote somewhere that stuck with me ever since, and I'm paraphrasing here:

"You can safely assume that man has recreated God in his own image when it turns out God hates all the same people he does."

by KevinCinNYC on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 02:45:51 PM EST

In the God damn America sermon (none / 0)

Wright said "Under Bill Clinton blacks had an intelligent friend in the Whitehouse."
If anyone had cared to watch the whole video for context.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvMbeVQj6 Lw

Because I wont trade humanity for patriotism!

by Drewid on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 03:25:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: In the God damn America sermon (2.00 / 0)

Well, that quote certainly cancels out this one:

"Bill did us just like he did Monica Lewinsky. He was riding dirty."

Complete with thrusting motions. Blech.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=enMWfQl_Qeg

by KevinCinNYC on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 04:06:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's Wright gamble: Knock down Obama or f (2.00 / 1)

I would make a prediction to you,

The Obama camp would not say a peep about what she said.

I could be wrong but I don't see his camp saying a word about it.

These are fundamental questions on the minds of voters that he cannot answer.

When I speak I have a southern drawl.. When you come down here Stop and say hello I'm an American from south of the Mason Dixon line

by lori on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 02:46:14 PM EST

Re: Clinton's Wright gamble: Knock down Obama or f (none / 0)

What are those questions, again, specifically?

See, I see a lot of innuendo from your side, but not a lot of specifics on this subject.

by Cycloptichorn on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 02:49:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's Wright gamble: Knock down Obama or f (none / 0)

The whole point is that Obama is really a man who hates white people. He's the new Al Sharpton-Jesse Jackson-Black Panther loving black man running for president.

That's there whole point.

by afr114 on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 02:56:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's Wright gamble: Knock down Obama or f (2.00 / 0)

No, it's not. Jesse Jackson does not hate white people, I have attended his sermons. Al Sharpton does not hate white people, he is a passionate advocate for victimized African Americans.

You are making a false equivalence.

by souvarine on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 03:09:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's Wright gamble: Knock down Obama or f (none / 0)

JJ and Sharpton have actually both said some pretty ugly stuff, if that's your standard. That's never made me condemn either one of them, primarily because I think the good outweights the bad and I've been willing to believe their apologies, but it's nonetheless true that their worst moments haven't been pretty either.

by HSTruman on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 04:09:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's Wright gamble: Knock down Obama or f (none / 0)

Sure, all public figures make mistakes. The difference is they apologize for them. Rev. Wright, and some of his defenders here, believes that his comments were justified. So much so that he sells videos of them to promote his church.

by souvarine on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:58:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's Wright gamble: Knock down Obama or f (none / 0)

Is this snark, or are you remarkably stupid?

Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove.

by fogiv on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 03:52:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's Wright gamble: Knock down Obama or f (2.00 / 0)

It is a simple question which you are trying to run away from hence you still dont know the question.

Does Obama lack judgement, character and spine in first approaching Wright, then joining the church inspite of Wright telling him we are radicals, then listening to those hateful words from pulpit for 20 years, then trying to dissociate himself from Wright by inviting him, then lying that he never heard crap talks from Wright, then sticking with him till it came up all over on the TV, then denouncing his words and then backing it up with a politically motivated speech by comparing Wright (whom he chose) with his grandmother (whom God chose).

You can run as much as you want. But hypocrisy ends one day for every mortal:-)

by Sandeep on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 03:03:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's Wright gamble: Knock down Obama or f (2.00 / 1)

No, he doesn't lack judgment, character, or spine in the slightest. What would have shown that, was an abandoning of his past for political reasons, which he did not do.

You still don't realize that Wright is an actual person, not a demon, devilized caricature that you on the right-wing have made him out to be. It's a false construction which you are then using to attack Obama with. A straw-man.

by Cycloptichorn on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 03:06:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I don't think his camp needs to say anything. (none / 0)

This is a gamble for Clinton. It either works or it doesn't.

I am wondering, though, if this is simply step one in an attack that will be capped with fresh video, etc.

Who knows at this point? But if her camp doesn't have anything else beyond her comments, she took a pretty big risk.

As I note upthread, politicians routinely avoid answering questions. The fact that she chose to answer this questions at this time strikes me as certainly part of a strategy, larger or otherwise.

by Bob Johnson on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 02:52:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I don't think his camp needs to say anything. (none / 0)

You are correct - she is going to try and keep this in the news as much as possible, through surrogates.

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsm emo.com/2008/03/hillary_finance_committe e_memb.php

by Cycloptichorn on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 03:06:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I don't think his camp needs to say anything. (none / 0)

She is also repeating the attack on CNN.

by Cycloptichorn on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 03:19:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's Wright gamble: Knock down Obama (2.00 / 0)

Speaking as an Obama supporter (who would love to see a joint BO-HRC ticket, I must add), I see absolutely nothing wrong with HRC's statement. The problem is that our entire picture of Trinity Church and Rev. Wright is based on soundbites. I can only imagine what people would think of me if their impressions were based on nothing more than carefully chosen excerpts from the last twenty years of my life, spliced together and posted on YouTube.

by KTinOhio on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 02:48:39 PM EST

Re: Clinton's Wright gamble: Knock down Obama (none / 0)

Exactly. People ask how Obama could have stayed a member for 20 years and listened to that kind of hate speech. Well, he didn't. The everyday content of the sermons at his church were nothing like the ones that are getting play on YouTube. As though anyone would sit there and listen to that for 20 years.

by animated on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 02:51:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's Wright gamble: Knock down Obama (2.00 / 0)

There are people who have deep animosity inside them or those who are hypocrites who can sit there and listen to that for 20 years.

There are bigots in every sphere of life who show a different face to the public.

Not saying that Obama is one but you can not rule out that there are no one like that.

by Sandeep on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 03:07:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's Wright gamble: Knock down Obama (2.00 / 1)

Come on, these weren't slices of life accidentally caught on tape. They were pre-written sermons, videotaped for sale. This wasn't Candid Camera.

by KevinCinNYC on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 02:51:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's Wright gamble: Knock down Obama (2.00 / 0)

"They were pre-written sermons, videotaped for sale."

And how. These were selected as Reverend Wright's "greatest hits", selected for their popularity to make money for the church. The most inflammatory remarks were culled out of context, but the sermons were selected for their popularity,

by 07rescue on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 03:32:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's Wright gamble: Knock down Obama (none / 0)

Even so, the excerpts weren't typical of twenty years of Rev. Wright's sermons. And who says a little honest introspection as to the causes of anti-American sentiment around the world isn't a good thing? I heard many of the same points raised by Rev. Wright in my own church on the Sunday following 9/11, and my church is almost completely white.

by KTinOhio on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 03:33:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's Wright gamble: Knock down Obama (2.00 / 0)

"Bill Clinton did us just like he did Monica Lewinsky. He was riding dirty."

How honest and introspective. Nothing says honest introspection like a thrusting pastor comparing a president's treatment of the black community to a sexual tryst.

by KevinCinNYC on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 04:17:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I attend a Church like TUCC, when I go (none / 0)

Bill attends Churches like TUCC all the time, Hillary has spoken in Churches like TUCC... the only reason she did this was a desperate attempt to change the narrative away from her lies. I think I'm joining the 'I'd never vote for Hillary Camp.' She can attack Obama, that is fine, but she should have kept up with 'No Comment' on this one...instead of insulting Black Theology

Bring Back MyDD - Just say No to Rec'ing Candidate Diaries.

by CardBoard on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 02:49:14 PM EST

Re: I attend a Church like TUCC, when I go (2.00 / 0)

You are trying to use Black Theology to justify your hatred towards Hillary. That is a ridiculous.

The truth is that you fear this will hurt Obama. Dont run from reality by converting that into hatred.

by Sandeep on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 03:09:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I attend a Church like TUCC, when I go (none / 0)

I would check my diaries... I study religion... Hillary is insulting a people group, not Obama...she is the one using Black Theology to attack Obama.

Bring Back MyDD - Just say No to Rec'ing Candidate Diaries.

by CardBoard on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 04:14:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

She's criticizing one pastor (2.00 / 0)

And rightfully so. She criticizes Imus in the same quote, who attacked young black girls in a shameful way.

She's criticizing hate speech in all forms, something she's been doing forcefully her entire life. This is a woman who put her full political support behind an all-gay high school in NYC that protects kids from being bullied. A woman who spoke out against the horrible treatment of women in the very epicenter of a country that is among the worst culprits.

She gets the bigger picture: hateful speech degrades, divides and dehumanizes - and once that's been done to any group, people can get on board with doing horrible things to them, because they are now a "them", different from "us."

by KevinCinNYC on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 04:30:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She's criticizing one pastor (none / 0)

But Imus is a far cry from Wright...one is a pastor (and not that unusual of a pastor) and one is a shock-jock

Bring Back MyDD - Just say No to Rec'ing Candidate Diaries.

by CardBoard on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 04:57:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She's criticizing one pastor (none / 0)

Yes, and as such, Wright should be held to a higher standard.

by KevinCinNYC on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 01:29:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's Wright gamble: Knock down Obama or f (none / 0)

I don't mind that it gets play now.

Once every single voter has seen the video, heard Obama's response, thought about the issue, and made up their mind, it just makes the inevitable GOP attacks that much less potent.

by animated on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 02:49:40 PM EST

I've been with Shiela Jackson Lee (none / 0)

To Church in Houston... and her Church is much like TUCC - the Pastor is just as fiery. I'm calling her office to see if she is retracting her endorsement.

Bring Back MyDD - Just say No to Rec'ing Candidate Diaries.

by CardBoard on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 02:50:58 PM EST

Any videos of that one please (2.00 / 0)

Please you make these comments.

Next one up is BHO listening to the sermon when
Rev Wright is making these hateful comments.

I am sure Fox news has that in handy for the GE
if BHO is the candidate.

by indus on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 03:08:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Any videos of that one please (none / 0)

Do I have video of the times I went to Church with Lee and Sly Turner - no, what a ridiculous question.

Bring Back MyDD - Just say No to Rec'ing Candidate Diaries.

by CardBoard on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 04:58:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's Wright gamble: Knock down Obama or f (none / 0)

This will not go over well for her.

by futurebird on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 02:51:09 PM EST

The jury is out. (none / 0)

I am wondering if this simply the first shoe to drop in a multi-part strategy. We shall see if fresh video surfaces in the next couple of days.

by Bob Johnson on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 02:54:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The jury is out. (none / 0)

Exactly - I hope not there is one where BHO or Michelle is smiling when the Rev makes his crazy rant.

by indus on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 03:18:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

2 Fallacies (2.00 / 0)

(1) 70% of the people liked the speech, but that does not mean that 70% of the people are more likely to vote for Obama as a result of that speech. Whether or not the speech did him any good is a different question from whether or not people liked the speech.

It is sort of like when you are sellign a house, and spend $10,000 on landscaping. Potential buyers may like the landscaping, but does it make them more likely to buy (at a price point that has increased by $10,000)

(2) I would submit that the speech has not worked for Obama, and is not working for Obama, as you can see from my diary below

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/3/23/1523 9/3399

If you follow history with a long enough arc, things always get better, and the truth always prevails...Gandhi

by SevenStrings on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 02:55:39 PM EST

Heh. (2.00 / 1)

He's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

The Clinton campaign and her backers whave claimed, over and over, that he needs to be "tested" and "vetted" because he's not tough enough to stand up to Republican attacks.

Now he's too tough and he's using "rough and tumble Chicago-style" politics.

As one who enjoys irony, I am grateful for your post.

by Bob Johnson on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 02:56:50 PM EST

Re: Heh. (2.00 / 0)

"He's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.:

That is the exact nature of negative campaigning - when you go negative, your negatives go up. His personal attacks on Clinton's character will bring up his negatives as well. And if he isn't the purveyor of "change" and "new politics" then what of any substance does he have to offer voters? A watered down version of Clinton and Edward's policy proposals with no record or experience to back up a claim that he can get anything done?

by 07rescue on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 03:40:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Knock down Obama or face blowback? (none / 0)

I think there was anything wrong with what she said. I don't think anyone really expected this thing to just go away overnight. I think it's pretty surprising how much it has died down in the past week though.

This administration is not sinking. This administration is soaring! If anything, they are rearranging the deck chairs on the Hindenburg!

by venavena on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 02:57:35 PM EST

Re: Knock down Obama or face blowback? (none / 0)

Are you kidding? It hasn't died down at all, which is precisely why the press asked HRC the question.

I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.

by KnowVox on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 03:04:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Knock down Obama or face blowback? (none / 0)

Of course it has died down. That's why, until Hillary shot off her mouth about it today, there were exactly zero stories about Wright on any of the main networks or newspapers.

by Cycloptichorn on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 03:07:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Knock down Obama or face blowback? (none / 0)

We need to keep Wright on all major network. Afterall we should be continuing a dialogue on race.

by Sandeep on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 03:18:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's Obama's Problem not Hillary's Gamble (none / 0)

please.... just stop right there

Her Bosnia account was not a "misstatement" as she likes to say... the press is just cutting her some slack by not calling her a liar

She has made this comment SEVERAL times.. Say it once and it is a "misstatement." Say it Several times and it becomes clear she is either forgetful or she is purposely distorting the story to make it seem more dangerous to try to boost her Nat'l Security cred

And I love how when Obama challenges Clinton on something, he is "going negative." He can't say anything without clinton people crying foul about going negative

by uscpdx1 on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 02:58:19 PM EST

Re: It's Obama's Problem not Hillary's Gamble (none / 0)

It wasn't a mis-statement. She repeated the same thing on 5 or 6 different occasions. That's not a mis-statement, it's a lie.

by Cycloptichorn on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 03:01:04 PM EST

Re: It's Obama's Problem not Hillary's Gamble (none / 0)

Now that is a lie. Any proof of 5-6 different times?

Stop getting so excited while stating fact, otherwise they turn into lies.

by Sandeep on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 03:14:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's Obama's Problem not Hillary's Gamble (none / 0)

here is part of her speech in Iowa in december

She said she saved Kosovar refugees by persuading Macedonia to reopen its border. And in a direct jab back at Obama, she recalled visiting Bosnia on a plane that made a tight corkscrew landing to avoid potential attacks. "Somebody said there might be sniper fire,"

She also made similar comments in her book, "Living History"

so, yes this has been repeated several times

by uscpdx1 on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 03:34:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

list of misstatements from BHO - This is just the (none / 0)

Start

http://thepage.time.com/clinton-camp-mem o-on-obamas-embellished-words/

More to follow

by indus on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 03:27:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's Obama's Problem not Hillary's Gamble (2.00 / 0)

Word!

The problem is that many Obama voters think Hillary is a genuinely horrible person. Thus, anything she says is automatically horrible.

It's absolutely amazing to me. Hillary is my Senator and I know her to be a truly caring and thoughtful public servant. She also has a 91% progressive rating from ProgressivePunch.org. (Obama has almost as good a rating - 88%.) These ratings are based on their voting records and comparing each vote with the progressive position on each piece of legislation. By contrast, McCain gets a 13% rating based on his voting record. YIKES.

Sadly, some Obama supporters are absolutely blinded by their hatred for Hillary. I don't understand it.

Personally, I don't like Obama one bit, but I'll vote for him anyway. Anyone but McCain.

The world cannot survive four more years of Bush.

by madamab on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 03:01:31 PM EST

Re: It's Obama's Problem not Hillary's Gamble (none / 0)

People who live on hatred are poor souls. We need Wright to help them as someone said above he was saving souls.

by Sandeep on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 03:16:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

She is on CNN right now repeating the comments (none / 0)

live

Bring Back MyDD - Just say No to Rec'ing Candidate Diaries.

by CardBoard on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 03:08:21 PM EST

Yes We can or No we cant (none / 0)

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/polit ics/obama/chi-obama-quiz,0,234858.trivia quiz

Maybe you need to take this quiz to learn more about Obama

by indus on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 03:10:26 PM EST

Re: Clinton's Wright gamble: Knock down Obama or f (none / 0)

I can't believe she's doing this. Unlike some, I don't really think this is all about trying to get Obama to lose the general so she can run in 2012. I think they still think they can win this year. But this stuff is crazy, and makes me begin to doubt it.
Her whole argument is that she has a better chance to win Ohio, Florida, Michigan, Pennsylvania than Obama. Does she really think that any Democrat can win any of those states without a good African American turnout? Does she really think that demagoguing the African American church and then getting white superdelegates to take the nomination away from a black candidate with the most pledged delegates and (probably) the most votes, she is going to get a good black turnout in those states? The states she claims to be more electable in are exactly the states where she'll be crippled if she succeeds in this race-baiting strategy for the nomination.
Jesus Christ, it just gets worse and worse.

McCain: The Past, Obama: The Future

by KathyM on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 03:23:31 PM EST

Re: Clinton's Wright gamble: Knock down Obama or f (none / 0)

Lord save us (one day) from identity politics. This primary season has clearly been all about demographics and not much else, which is a sad commentary on far we haven't come as a people...

No politician ever lost an election because he underestimated the intelligence of the American public. - PT Barnum, paraphrased...

by jarhead5536 on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 03:35:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's Wright gamble: Knock down Obama or f (none / 0)

"Does she really think that demagoguing the African American church"

I think characterizing her comments this way is way out of line. The entire Democratic Party is going to be hurt by the Reverend Wright story, and I think Democrats need to staunch the bleeding. America is not going to sit down and review hours of Wright's sermons to try to understand the context of his remarks, and the entire situation bodes poorly for November.

Clinton is speaking the truth for herself, and clearly many politicians will be asked what their position is on the Wright videos.

by 07rescue on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 03:49:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's Wright gamble: Knock down Obama or f (none / 0)

Ready to lie on day one.

McCain: The Past, Obama: The Future

by KathyM on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 03:24:13 PM EST

Re: Clinton's Wright gamble: Knock down Obama or f (2.00 / 0)

"Ready to lie on day one."

You're talking about Mr Obama, right? Like how he "wasn't in the pews" when Reverend Wright made his controversial remarks. And Rezko only contributed $150,000.00 to his campaigns, but already it is known to be $260,000.00. And he passed nuclear regulatory legislation that he didn't. How many other examples should I list?

I guess he just "misspoke"

by 07rescue on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 03:53:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Blood on her hands (none / 0)

I love how you always drag out Rezko. That old kite don't fly no more. Try try again.

by munodi on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 04:41:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hillary's choice (none / 0)

For we have a choice in this country. We can accept a politics that breeds division, and conflict, and cynicism. We can tackle race only as spectacle - as we did in the OJ trial - or in the wake of tragedy, as we did in the aftermath of Katrina - or as fodder for the nightly news. We can play Reverend Wright's sermons on every channel, every day and talk about them from now until the election, and make the only question in this campaign whether or not the American people think that I somehow believe or sympathize with his most offensive words. We can pounce on some gaffe by a Hillary supporter as evidence that she's playing the race card, or we can speculate on whether white men will all flock to John McCain in the general election regardless of his policies.

We can do that.

But if we do, I can tell you that in the next election, we'll be talking about some other distraction. And then another one. And then another one. And nothing will change.

(So Hillary takes a position where even McCain and Huckabee wouldn't even go. Nice choice Hillary)

by magster on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 04:24:03 PM EST

there is no gamble here: Obama did it himself (none / 0)

She needs to do it harder - Wright thing is a huge misjudgment on Obama part. He is not qualified and not electable.

Welcome to a Landslide without white Working class, Latinos, Women, Seniors and holding-on sweeties

by engels on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 11:25:28 PM EST

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