Tuzla-gate and Hillary's honesty problem

The facts of what is already being called Tuzla-gate are well known and quickly described; JedReport on Daily Kos has a satisfyingly comprehensive roundup of the issues. Briefly, Hillary Clinton made claims, as part of her larger argument to competence and experience, to have come under hostile fire at Tuzla airport in Bosnia-Herzegovina in the aftermath of that country's civil war; these claims are false as made, as even the Clinton campaign has now admitted.

The story of Tuzla-gate, meanwhile, is spreading over the media like an inkblot. This is no mere campaign gaffe; it's potentially a game-changer of the first magnitude.

Why so? Over the fold >>>

It is Hillary's bad luck, surely, that the various segments of Tuzla-gate are all preserved on video: her speech announcing the false claim, her repetition of it sometime later, and the original footage - also available, for Kos boycotteers, here and here - clearly demonstrate that her claims to having been in danger were false and, at best, a reckless exaggeration that just so happens to tie in seamlessly with her larger campaign narrative. That will strengthen the hand of those unkind enough to call this a calculated lie.

Two factors make Tuzla-gate a dangerous phenomenon to a campaign already reeling under falling poll numbers and a lack of cash. One, it amplifies the prior media narrative casting doubt on Hillary Clinton's claims to have, for example, contributed meaningfully to the peace process in the British province of Ulster. The idea that she is exaggerating her experience was, for example, fodder for a recent New York Times front-page story.

Two, it reinvigorates public perception, uneasily dormant until recently, that Hillary has problems with telling the truth. For example, Gallup released a poll on March 18th showing that only 44% of Americans consider Senator Clinton to be honest and trustworthy. By contrast, 67% of Americans rate John McCain as honest; 63%, Barack Obama. That strategic disadvantage, a twenty-point gap either way, has just been given new and powerful life - by Tuzla-gate. Devastating in a general election? Absolutely. The campaign ads practically write themselves; this especially after Barack Obama's recent extraordinary, and extraordinarily honest, speech on race.

Ah, you might now argue, who really cares what the population at large says, when what matters right now is the smaller universe of Democratic primary voters? And you'd have a point, except for this: Democrats themselves aren't all that meaningfully different from the rest of the nation.

Ben Smith, quoting Kos quoting MS exit polls:

Kos spots this stunner in the Mississippi exits:

   Is Clinton honest and trustworthy? 52 Yes, 48 No

Obama's at 70-30. And this is among Democrats.

And now all of that perception, hardened through years of carefully nurtured ambiguity, is exploding over the headlines and eating its way deeper into the consciousness of voters.

Another self-inflicted injury? Of course. A campaign-ender? Perhaps, but probably not. Helpful to her campaign? No, not at all. Not when one of the biggest issues before the American public, after eight years of derangement and dishonesty in Washington, is our ability to trust our government.

Can Americans trust Hillary? In fairness, we probably can; at least I think so. But Tuzla-gate makes that case harder to make. And when even half of Democrats, give or take a percentage point or two, consider her to be dishonest, Hillary's already steep climb to the nomination just got a few degrees steeper.

The super-delegates are watching.



Display:


And when... (none / 0)

...you've had enough of politics, check out one of my favorite things, the site of the Chateau de Versailles; residence, back in the day, of an earlier dynasty.

Simply fascinating.


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:27:30 PM EST

Oh My God -- These Diaries Are Like Roaches (none / 0)

Maybe she was thinking about this day at Camp Bedrock when she misspoke about something that happened 10 years ago:

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

But the highlight of her trip were visits to two fortified posts outside the U.S. base in Tuzla. Even President Clinton, restricted to the base by bad weather in January, did not see as much of this war-wracked region as Mrs. Clinton did Monday.
...
Riflemen rushed to the brush line as the helicopter landed and surrounded her as she walked into the post. Located in a "separation zone," the U.S. outpost nestles between two tree lines. Just months ago, one was Serbian territory, the other Bosnian.

Security was tight - fighter jets accompanied her C-17 cargo plane to Tuzla - but officials said the first lady took no extraordinary risks on the trip.
Lexis - By RON FOURNIER, Associated Press, March 25, 1996

=
First Lady of the United States, Hillary Clinton, visited her country's troops at their fortified outposts in north-eastern Bosnia today and said their peacekeeping work was "extraordinary to behold".
Mrs Clinton's helicopter flight to Camp Alicia, home of a mechanised infantry outfit and a combat engineer batallion 15 miles east of Tuzla, took her over burned out villages and farm houses whose roofs had been blown off in the fierce fighting before last December's Paris peace agreement ended the 43 -month-old war in Bosnia.

A machine gun emplacement guarded the entrance of the outposts and marked Bosnian minefields were visible outside its perimeter.
...
 After lunch with the troops in a makeshift dining hall surrounded by sandbags, she flew on to Camp Bedrock south of Tuzla to visit an army field hospital.

Mrs Clinton, who later returned to Tuzla for a show starring singer Sheryl Crow and comedian Sinbad, said she was "amazed at how much has been accomplished in such a short period of time" by US troops in Bosnia.
Source - Lexis - The Herald (Glasgow), March 26, 1996

Talkleft: I did some research on Lexis Nexis last night

I'm amazed that she took a chopper to a forward MASH unit. Can you believe that? The First Lady of the United States. Can you imagine Laura Bush putting on a flak jacked and heading out to a forward MASH unit. What a brave and wonderful woman.

I hope the Obama folks do keep flailing at this issue. It just spotlights their lack of character and the type of leader Hillary Clinton is.

The US had made a huge commitment to bringing peace, and they decided to send Hillary and Chelsea as a symbol of our committment to peace. That's leadership. That's powerful world class leadership. I find all the nasty innuendo sad and desperate. She put herself in harms way for the cause of peace. Would any of us do the same? I doubt it, but then we are not fit to be a leaders of the free world, are we?


by MediaFreeze on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 12:13:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh My God -- These Diaries Are Like Roaches (2.00 / 0)

Be sure to spam them all with the same post.


It's time to restore balance and fairness to our economy,... It's time to stop giving tax cuts to corporations that ship jobs overseas... - Barack Obama
by Lefty Coaster on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 05:00:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Oh really? (none / 0)

Can you point anyone to where in your hagiography Hillary is under sniper fire?

Oh noes, that's right, you can't. It never happened.

Tsk, tsk. Is this Hillary's macaca moment, the one that makes her as unelectable as George Allen? Pay attention, super-delegates.


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 09:37:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Check The Rec List (2.00 / 1)

This has already been diaried - at least 3 other times.

Thought I'd mention it in case you want to cover something that hasn't already been done to death ;)


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:27:37 PM EST

Ha! (none / 0)

Just noticing that now; in my defense, all I can offer is that I started this six-ish, and then got distracted by other stuff.

I'll leave it up, because Bob doesn't have the MS exit polls. Need to get the message out there.

:-)


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:43:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

alegre I got to tell, with all due respect (2.00 / 0)

you diary the same topic to death too, you were the QUEEN BEE on repetative NAFTA diaries.


-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:46:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tuzla-gate and Hillary's honesty problem (2.00 / 1)

I'm an Obama supporter, but pushing this story is like pushing the Rev. Wright story. Senator Clinton said she misspoke. We should just leave it at that and move on.

Peace, love, and a little bit of f***ing hope.


_____________
changiness
by lizardbox on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:28:40 PM EST

Re: Tuzla-gate and Hillary's honesty problem (2.00 / 0)

I'm not sure this is equatable, I've defended Hillary's involvement in the Fellowship and religious affiliation... as well as Wright.  But this is several sentences of straight lies


Bring Back MyDD - Just say No to Rec'ing Candidate Diaries.
by CardBoard on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:30:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tuzla-gate and Hillary's honesty problem (2.00 / 1)

Misspeaking is goofing up on your wording or saying the wrong word or phrase by mistake. It is not creating an entire scenario that didn't happen. Not even possible. It was lying.
by Becky G on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:39:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tuzla-gate and Hillary's honesty problem (none / 0)

I'm an Obama supporter, but pushing this story is like pushing the Rev. Wright story. Senator Clinton said she misspoke. We should just leave it at that and move on.

Peace, love, and a little bit of f***ing hope.


_____________
changiness
by lizardbox on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:29:09 PM EST

Re: Tuzla-gate and Hillary's honesty problem (1.66 / 3)

"misspoke" is not the correct term.  Look it up.  "misspoke" is what you use when you accidentally say something you didn't intend.  She said something that was patently false.  She should apologize for a misstatement, not say she "misspoke"


"There's something horrible and undefeatable about people who have no life except the worship of power. People who don't want the meeting to end."
by campaignmonitor on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:30:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tuzla-gate and Hillary's honesty problem (1.66 / 3)

Don't forget her doubling down:

NOW, Hillary Clinton has doubled down in an interview by saying she "misspoke" (which is complete bologna, considering that one "misspeaks" when one says 10 million rather than 8 million):

"Now let me tell you what I can remember, OK -- because what I was told was that we had to land a certain way and move quickly because of the threat of sniper fire. So I misspoke -- I didn't say that in my book or other times but if I said something that made it seem as though there was actual fire -- that's not what I was told. I was told we had to land a certain way, we had to have our bulletproof stuff on because of the threat of sniper fire. I was also told that the greeting ceremony had been moved away from the tarmac but that there was this 8-year-old girl and, I can't, I can't rush by her, I've got to at least greet her -- so I made a -- I took her stuff and then I left, Now that's my memory of it.

Nice try.


"There's something horrible and undefeatable about people who have no life except the worship of power. People who don't want the meeting to end."
by campaignmonitor on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:29:15 PM EST

Re: Tuzla-gate and Hillary's honesty problem (1.00 / 1)

Discuss the issue at hand or go bother another diary.


"There's something horrible and undefeatable about people who have no life except the worship of power. People who don't want the meeting to end."
by campaignmonitor on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:31:14 PM EST

Re: Tuzla-gate and Hillary's honesty problem (1.33 / 3)

Who are you the free speech police.  I didnt know you could decide who should or should not have to go to another diary because you dont like what others write.  But i will discuss the issue at hand.  You are trolling by putting up the same thread over and over again to push your smears of HRC.  

Real classy.  Dude if you want to be an internet stalker that is your issue but this is weak and sad that BO supporters have come to this.  I guess the race issue and wright issue is not going real well so going around calling HRC a lier is all you have left.

The funny think is people like you really think that a liberal northern senator can be elected president???  Just like McGovern, Mondale, Dukaksi, and kerry all got clocked so will BO.  He is just another sad wine and cheese liberal who cant carry enough states off the coast to win the electoral college.  MAYBE if you worked on helping get some working class voters instead of trolling here he might do better than your man Kerry did.  But people like you thinks smearing HRC with this weak ass parsing of words really helps your candidate.  Well dude, BO unfavorables have quickly increased since supertuesday and in no small part becasue his supporters have become unhinged and this smear is but one of many examples.  When you go around acing like a moon bat it not only makes BO look bad but all democrats look bad.

david


by giusd on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:42:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Eh? (2.00 / 1)

The funny think is people like you really think that a liberal northern senator can be elected president???

You mean like Hillary?


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:48:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tuzla-gate and Hillary's honesty problem (2.00 / 1)

Moonbat?  What is this, LGF?


And so, may evil beware and may good dress warmly and eat lots of fresh vegetables.
by thatpurplestuff on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:53:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tuzla-gate and Hillary's honesty problem (1.00 / 1)

Dude you bring it upon yourself.  

david


by giusd on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 12:00:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tuzla-gate and Hillary's honesty problem (2.00 / 0)

Where were you when your fellow Hillaryites were going on and on and on about Obama's lack of honesty?


by Pravin on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 08:49:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tuzla-gate and Hillary's honesty problem (1.50 / 2)

How's this: Standing in front of a CHANGE WE CAN BELIEVE IN poster, when you were in the Senate 2 yrs before you started campaigning for President, when you made an anti-war speech as a state senator, is a much bigger lie than anything Hillary did.

Are we straight now?


by NY Writer on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:35:35 PM EST

what's the lie? (1.00 / 1)

I'm sorry you have to make it more obvious, your post didn't make sense to me.

Also, that's off subject.  The diary is about Clinton


McCain does Not support the troops
by hope monger on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:44:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

No, not really. (1.00 / 0)

This because your outburst - being kind here - is transparently nothing but flailing around in the face of things, as outlined in this diary, that make you uncomfortable.

Hillary lied. That's bad, because the nation already believes, fairly or otherwise, that she's a liar.

That's a problem for her. Your assent isn't required for this objective, data-supported fact.


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:52:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I don't have a problem with the lying myself (1.66 / 3)

because I think as a president she would be dedicated to the interests of the democratic party, for the most part.  I'm a little worried she might not get us out of Iraq, but that's another conversation

Here's my problem with Tuzla-gate.  If something like this happened a month before the GE it would be Horrible.  What is McCain's biggest strength: he's a war hero.  Tuzla-gate not only makes HRC seem more untrustworthy but it also makes people think about the motive of the lie, which is obviously to pad her resume so that it looks better compared to McCain's real experience.  The effect is it's a defacto endorsement of McCain.

I don't think this was her intent, I just think this was incredibly careless and we can't afford to have our nominee make careless mistakes like stretching the truth without checking before to make sure it couldn't be easily debunked by any 10 year old on the internet.

Now, I don't think HRC is going to be the nominee, but if she is I want to know that her campaign is not going to be this stupid and careless.  If you're going to lie it can't be a blad-faced lie and it cant be embarrassing.

Better yet, she should just stop lying


McCain does Not support the troops
by hope monger on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:38:14 PM EST

Re: Tuzla-gate and Hillary's honesty problem (none / 0)

The actual "Tuzla-gate" news cycle start Tuesday morning since I just got Hil-loser's double-down on it in PA.

I will say this though before going to bed

"it takes more lies to make a lie complete"

Hillary Clinton did not disappoint in that respect.


by igwealth5tm on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:53:50 PM EST

Re: Tuzla-gate and Hillary's honesty problem (none / 0)

My guess is you will not be so arrogent after BO loses PA by what 20%.  I have a long memory and will remind you when BO gets fing clocked.  And after that BO will lose every primary up to the convention.  We are talking what 9 straight priminaries.  He will not look good after that. Lets see Rassumussin has BO down what 9% to McCain today.  After PA that will be more like 15% and in McGovern land.  Which makes sense since he is the second coming of McGovern.  BO and McGovern will go down in history as the two biggest loses of all time.

BUT BUT BUT HRC is a lier.  

david


by giusd on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:59:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tuzla-gate and Hillary's honesty problem (1.00 / 0)

"Dude you candidate is the antiamerican candidate. "

Maybe you can throw in some Farakan and Rezko quotes while your at it, as your rant against Obama seems to be lacking in any criticism of Obama, other than some twisted guilt by association argument.

On the other hand, this wasn't some Clinton associate caught in a pretty obvious lie, its the candidate herself.  To those of us familiar with her, no big surprise, really. But still gotta be pretty embarrasing to be caught red handed like that...


by davey jones on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 12:07:53 AM EST

Re: Tuzla-gate and Hillary's honesty problem (none / 0)

Yeah like Obama wasn't caught saying he was never in the church during any of the anti American sermons.


The man who reads nothing at all is better educated than the man who reads nothing but newspapers. -- Thomas Jefferson
by pollbuster on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 12:13:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tuzla-gate and Hillary's honesty problem (none / 0)

This is about a dozen diaries on this same subject in 2 days. Well, whatever exactly happen in Bosnia, the one thing you know for sure was that Hillary was there, trying to help that country, and trying to help America. All this while her opponent was in his church listening to someone damn America. This is the bottom line here, and this is what we should point out every time they diary this topic.


The man who reads nothing at all is better educated than the man who reads nothing but newspapers. -- Thomas Jefferson
by pollbuster on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 12:10:53 AM EST

Re: Tuzla-gate and Hillary's honesty problem (none / 0)

its not a big deal but what does bother me, why do you people call it a war zone, it must have been safe they had an 8 year old girl on the damn tarmac she brought her daughter for pete's sake!

Honestly I want EVERY parent here to tell me what war conditions you are bringing your 16 year old daughter to.

please? anyone?  and if any of you are saying "we ofcourse I would bring my 16 year old daughter to a war zone especially when its to dangerous for the president himself to go"


Obama said, as Bill beamed. "Thank you, President Clinton."
by TruthMatters on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 12:12:30 AM EST


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