Barack I-didn't-know Obama

Vetting our two Democratic presidential candidates has definitely been a mixed bag. On one hand, Hillary Clinton's life and political history has been in the news and reported online for many years. Barack Obama is another deal. He has essentially gotten a free ride in the national media, only being questioned seriously when the news was so shocking that the mainstream media had no choice but to report it.

So I went hunting, and was often surprised at what I found. It amounts to a pattern that I find dismaying. There are a lot of links here, documenting sources for my conclusions, and there is a lot to read.

Here is my list, in no particular order. See if you agree with me, and answer the questions for yourself... did he really not know, or is it just that he didn't mind?

1. He joined and remained active in a church where racism and anti-American hate is routinely preached. He and his family attended, and heavily contributed for about 20 years. This has received worldwide attention, as show in the link below.
Ten Must-See Videos from The Times Online
Obama first claimed not to know about Wright's inflammatory statements. He later admitted he did.
CBS News
Flip-Flip Video
CBS News
OOPS... didn't notice. Or else he forgot.
Rev Wright, one of the ministers, even promoted Obama and denigrated Hillary Clinton from the pulpit spurring an IRS investigation as to the validity of their non-profit status. The Obama campaign is also reported to have campaigned on at least one occasion at church events, furthering the curiosity of the IRS.
WCBS TV
Obama Speech at General Synod of the United Church of Christ
But, OOPS... he didn't know. Or didn't mind.

2. Senator Obama bought stock in two companies whose investors included his 2004 campaign political donors. One, in fact, was developing medicine to treat avian flu -- with the stock purchase coming right before Obama introduced legislation to increase funding to combat the virus.
The other company, SkyTerra, received government permission to build a national wireless network on the day Obama purchased his shares. Among the principal owners of this business were four people who had raised more than $150,000 for Obama. Attorney Obama claimed later that they were in a semi-blind trust, that just didn't legally work out. When this became public, Obama sold the stock.
Chicago Sun-Times
New York Times
Oops... he didn't know. Or didn't he mind?

3. Senator Obama came into politics through the famously corrupt Chicago political machine, with the help of some of the slimiest characters imaginable. (Several major players who helped him are have been indicted for graft, fraud, etc. Obama now keeps a rep at Rezko's trial every day to monitor testimony.) Obama has had to donate to charity much of the money they gave him to get his start, though the admitted dollar amount keeps increasing as time goes on. It's now up over $250,000. Tony Rezko, currently at trial on federal charges of attempted extortion, money laundering, and fraud, was also involved in the purchase of Obama's home at well below market value.
Huffington Post
Chicago Sun-Times
New York Times
Not so well publicized is the fact that Obama wrote letters to the Illinois Dept of Housing, recommending Rezco's company, North Kenwood, LLC, for the housing projects that soon became slums, causing inhumane hardship for their residents.
Obama Letters
These slums, later repossessed, were in Obama's district while he was an Illinois senator. In fact, some are about a mile from his home, and several are still boarded up. Obama professed to be unaware of any problems. During the Democratic debate on January 21, 2008, Obama, in fact, gave the impression that he had merely done about 5 hours of legal work for "this individual."
The Rezko Foreclosed Properties
telegraph.co.uk
No Quarter
Rezko Watch
Chicago Tribune: Almost Believable
OOPS... he didn't know. Or did he care?

4. According to the Sun-Times, Barack Obama, "allegedly decent guy and agent of change" in Washington, requested an earmark in 2006 for $1 million taxpayer dollars for the University of Chicago Hospitals, where is wife, Michelle Obama, was a vice president. Said hospital, by the way, gave Michelle Obama a huge raise (nearly $200,000, more than doubling her salary) in 2005 after Barack was elected to the United States Senate.
Michelle Obama
Chicago Sun-Times
According to The Chicago Tribune, "Obama had a special connection to Maytag: Lester Crown, one of the company's directors and biggest investors whose family, records show, has raised tens of thousands of dollars for Obama's campaigns since 2003." Maytag closed its refrigerator plant in Galesburg, Ill during Obama's 2004 Senate campaign, but Crown says Obama never raised the fate of the Galesburg plant with him. Obama's campaign responded "that the senator did not know Crown sat on Maytag's board until the Tribune noted it last September in a story about the closing of the Maytag headquarters in Newton, Iowa."
Chicago Tribune
Obama Truth
Oops... he didn't know? Or didn't he care?

5. Obama took donations from federal lobbyists and political action committees for his House and Senate races and his own Hopefund political action committee. He only stopped taking this political money -- and began speaking out against it -- when he launched his presidential campaign in February 2007. However, he still takes hundreds of thousands of dollars from their high level employees.
Politifact
The Hill
Politifact
Oops... he didn't know? Or doesn't mind?

6. Opponents have asked Senator Obama to release the records from his term of state office in Illinois. Since he has little other experience in politics (he did, after all, declare his presidential candidacy barely 2 years after election to the US Senate), this doesn't seem an unreasonable request. The records might also shed light on his relationship with Rezko and some of the other corrupt individuals he rubbed shoulders with during his climb up through Chicago politics. But lo and behold, the records all seem to have mysteriously disappeared.
Politico
The Pantagraph, a central Illinois newspaper
Questions have also been raised about Obama-sponsored legislation during the last year he was in office there. It is alleged that, in the interest of making Obama appear more prolific, then Illinois Senate Majority Leader Emil Jones appointed Obama as sponsor of many pieces of legislation, even though other senior senators had spent many years working on the bills.

"I took all the beatings and insults and endured all the racist comments over the years from nasty Republican committee chairmen," State Senator Rickey Hendon, the original sponsor of landmark racial profiling and videotaped confession legislation yanked away by Jones and given to Obama, complained to me at the time. "Barack didn't have to endure any of it, yet, in the end, he got all the credit."
"I don't consider it bill jacking," Hendon told me. "But no one wants to carry the ball 99 yards all the way to the one-yard line, and then give it to the halfback who gets all the credit and the stats in the record book."


As a result, Todd Spivak of the Houston Press noted, "During his seventh and final year in the state Senate, Obama's stats soared. He sponsored a whopping 26 bills passed into law -- including many he now cites in his presidential campaign when attacked as inexperienced."
Houston Press
Oops... he didn't know? Or did he mind?

7. Obama's website sported a page for the New Black Panthers organization until it was discovered and reported by the media. It was quickly removed. Obama denounced their support, but the New Black Panthers' Winter 2008 newsletter still carries a full page ad for his campaign on page 36. Though the origin of the ad is not stated, it contains logos, graphics and quotes from the Obama website, which Obama could have ordered removed as a copyright violation.
The NBP page, before its deletion.
NBP Winter 2008 Newsletter
OOPs... he didn't know.

8. In addition to the controversy concerning his numerous "present" votes while in the Illinois legislature, Obama also maintains that he just pushed the wrong button on 5 or 6 other votes. (Let's not even go there!) According to the New York Times, however, an examination of Illinois records shows at least 36 times when Mr. Obama was either the only state senator to vote present or was part of a group of six or fewer to vote that way, causing many to question whether he was really just trying to avoid taking a stand.
LA Times on Obama votes
Real Clear Politics
New Your Times
Obama also has an exceptionally high no-show ration for votes since coming to the Senate.
Media Matters
OOPS... he didn't know? Or didn't he care?

9. On Wednesday, Feb 27, 2008, CTV reported that a senior member of Obama's campaign, Austan Goolsbee, spoke directly with the Canadian Consulate General in Chicago to assure them that if Obama publicly spoke about opting out of NAFTA, they should not take it seriously. It would just be political posturing... campaign rhetoric. Obama flatly denied the report, attacking both Senator Clinton and Senator McCain for their comments on the issue.
On March 4, the New York Times, among other sources, revealed that the conversation had indeed taken place, and published the memo. The Canadian government announced that an investigation would begin to find out who was responsible for leaking the memorandum concerning the conversation.
CTV News
New York Times
New York Times published the memo
OOPS... he didn't know.

10. Obama's position on the war in Iraq, in spite of the October 2002 speech, has not been as unwavering as he would have us believe.

  • He wrote in The Audacity of Hope that by March of 2003, "I began to suspect that I might have been wrong."
  • In July, 2004, he told the Chicago Tribune, "There's not that much difference between my position and George Bush's position at this stage."
  • Once elected to the US Senate, he told Charlie Rose on PBS, "Once the decision was made, then we've got to do everything we can to stabilize the country, to make it successful, because we'll have too much at stake in the Middle East. And that's the position that I continue to take."
  • Obama continued that tack in his speech of November, 2005. Mirroring the Bush administration's position, he asserted on January 26, 2006, that "it remains my position that we have a role to play in stabilizing the country as Iraqis are getting their act together." In this interview on Meet the Press, he further stated, "My position has been that it would not be responsible for us to unilaterally and precipitously draw troops down regardless of the politics, because I think that all of us have a stake in seeing Iraq succeed."
  • It wasn't until October of 2006 that he called for "all the leadership in Washington to execute a serious change of course in Iraq."
  • A month before he announced his presidential candidacy he repositioned himself again, saying for the first time, "It's time to start bringing our troops home."
  • It wasn't until May of 2007 that Obama voted against funding for the war for the first time.
  • In June, 2007, Obama voted no to Senator John F. Kerry's proposal to remove most combat troops from Iraq by July 2007, warning that an "arbitrary deadline" could "compound" the Bush administration's mistake. He voted instead for a Republican-sponsored resolution that stated the Senate would not cut off funding for troops in Iraq.
  • Commentary Magazine
    Obama Gets the Facts Wrong
    Clinton Takes on Obama
    MSNBC
    The Boston Globe
    OOPS... did he forget?

    11. Senator Obama is chair of of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee's Subcommittee on Europe, having been appointed in early 2007. According to Congressional Records, the subcommittee's jurisdiction includes "all matters, policies and problems concerning the continent of Europe, including the European member states of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization." That means it has jurisdiction over NATO.
    As Senator Clinton asserted in a recent debate, "NATO is critical to our mission in Afghanistan. He's held not one substantive hearing to do oversight, to figure out what we can do to actually have a stronger presence with NATO in Afghanistan."
    Politifact
    OOPS... he didn't know... or did he forget?

    12. Senator Obama told Tim Russert in January of 2006 that "I will serve out my full six-year term."
    From the official transcript of Meet the Press:
    MR. RUSSERT: But there seems to be an evolution in your thinking. This is what you told the Chicago Tribune last month: "Have you ruled out running for another office before your term is up?" Obama answered, "It's not something I anticipate doing." But when we talked back in November of `04 after your election I said, "There's been enormous speculation about your political future. Will you serve your six-year term as United States senator from Illinois?" Obama, "Absolutely."

    SEN. OBAMA: I will serve out my full six-year term. You know, Tim, if you get asked enough, sooner or later you're going to get weary and you start looking for new ways of saying things. But my thinking has not changed.

    MR. RUSSERT: So you will not run for president or vice-president in 2008?

    SEN. OBAMA: I will not.

    Obama formed an exploratory committee in January of 2007 and declared his candidacy two months later.
    Meet The Press Transcript January 22, 2006
    "Obama Takes the Russert Test" from The Swamp
    Obama Learns the Washington Ways
    OOPS... he forgot.

    13. Senator Obama promised to use public financing for the general election if his Republican opponent would do the same. Now, apparently after he realized how much more money he could have at his disposal, he has reversed himself.
    League of Women Voters
    Mr Obama's Waffle
    OOPS... he forgot.

    14. Obama bragged in the Iowa debate about the "nuclear legislation I've passed." When he encountered resistance from the nuclear industry... including Illinois-based Excelon, the country's largest nuclear plant operator and one of Mr. Obama's largest sources of campaign money, he edited his bill several times, making it weaker each time. The bill, however, never passed. It died. But Mr Obama gained a chief political strategist... David Axelrod. In October 2007, Obama resubmitted the bill in its watered-down version.
    Nuclear Leaks and Response Tested Obama in Senate
    OOPS... he forgot.

    15. Senator Obama purports to be in favor of "universal" health care, utilizing private insurance, on the campaign trail. In fact, he adamantly denied advocating single payor. But there was a time when he was in favor of the single payor system.
    Video
    The Swamp
    OOPS... he forgot.

    16. While campaigning, Obama told several hundred people in Iowa, "No lobbyists need apply to my White House."
    However, in contrast to his pledge to fight against the influence of special interests, his record on employing lobbyists isn't quite so pristine. Several high level members of his campaign are registered lobbyists, including his New Hampshire campaign manager. Lately, he has softened his campaign line to, "They are not going to run my White House."
    The Boston Globe
    The Wall Street Journal
    Politico
    The Washington Post
    The Hill
    Obama actually seems very comfortable working with lobbyists on legislation. To site just one example...
    According to ABC, Obama "has quietly worked with corporate lobbyists to help pass breaks worth $12 million," that gave two overseas companies tariff suspensions. Both companies also have facilities in Illinois.
    One of these companies, Nufarm, told its shareholders it was making "more money than ever before in North America because it had increased its prices on its U.S. and Canadian customers, predominantly farmers." This had the effect of profiting business interests in his state, while punishing its farmers.
    According to ABC News, "With a dozen tariff suspension bills to his name, Obama stands out as the most prolific of any Democratic presidential hopeful on the topic."
    Despite Rhetoric, Obama Pushed Lobbyists' Interests
    OOPS... he forgot. Or didn't he mind?

    How many other things are we going to find that Senator Obama conveniently forgot? It is my hope that the political powers-that-be will lay off the talk about ending the primaries early, and that the media and the internet diggers will help us truly vet Senator Obama. Use a little old-fashioned, objective journalism... remember that?
    If he has nothing more to hide, it can only help him.
    But if we don't know the whole story yet, it might just help us be certain that we can indeed put a Democrat in the White House in November.
    That is, after all, what Democrats want, isn't it?



    Display:


    Ignorance is bliss, (2.00 / 8)

    and to hear his supporters tell it, Obama is a very happy man.


    Our long national nightmare is over.
    by Beltway Dem on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 09:32:28 PM EST

    I think it would be worthwhile (2.00 / 4)

    to bet on whether he will be a one-term senator.  My guess is that he doesn't like the Senate; he probably will run for governor.  Since one way or the other he will lose in 2008, his best hope of being president one day is to lose the nomination this year.  If he were to become the nominee and lose the presidency, as he would, his presidential aspirations will soar right up there with McGovern's, Mondale's, Dukakis's, and Kerry's.


    Our long national nightmare is over.
    by Beltway Dem on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 09:39:18 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: I think it would be worthwhile (1.33 / 3)

    That is the Clinton campaigns end game plan now isn't it. "Since one way or the other he will lose in 2008" You are despicable.
    by joseb on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 03:12:40 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: I think it would be worthwhile (2.00 / 5)

    Yes, to win.

    Even if it means disenfranchising the voters of FL and MI.

    Even if it means disenfranchising the Superdelegates.

    Even if it means playing the race card again and again and again.

    ...

    Oh, wait.  I'm sorry.  Those are things OBAMA is doing.


    Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
    by switching sides on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 05:28:04 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Obama doesn't have the power... (none / 0)

    ...to disenfranchise superdelegates or voters in FL or MI.

    If he did, that would be something.  He doesn't.  His brother is not governor of those states.  He doesn't own the legislatures.  

    I suggest we drop the "race card" thing right now, because it only makes Democrats look stupid in front of the Republicans.  Both sides have race issues.  I get it.


    You can't stop the signal.

    President "That One"

    by Dracomicron on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 10:41:25 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Obama doesn't have the power... (2.00 / 3)

    Obama OPPOSED revotes in FL and MI.

    Regardless of his smackdown to Florida voters, do you really believe Obama could win Florida?
    Never!


    Hillary/Obama08
    by annefrank on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 02:08:44 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Obama doesn't have the power... (1.66 / 3)

    Reality Check On Clinton's Claims on Florida and Michigan Delegates

    CLINTON RHETORIC: "Let's talk about the agreement. The only agreement I entered into was not to campaign in Michigan and Florida. It had nothing to do with not seating the delegates. I think that's an important distinction. I did not campaign... that's not the case at all. I signed an agreement not to campaign in Michigan and Florida."

    REALITY: Clinton Said "It's Clear" That The Michigan Primary Won't "Count For Anything"

    Clinton Said "It's Clear" That The Michigan Primary Won't Count For Anything. Clinton, on why she stayed on the ballot for the Michigan primary said, "Well, you know, people in Michigan are flat on their backs. They have the highest unemployment rate in America. They are now grappling finally with what they are going to do with the auto industry. 1 in 10 jobs in America is tied to the auto industry which is -- the American auto industry, which as we know is centered in Michigan. You know, it's clear this election they're having isn't going to count for anything. But I just personally didn't want to set up a situation where the Republicans are going to be campaigning between now and whenever. And then after the nomination we have to go in and repair the damage and be ready to win Michigan in November 2008." [NHPR Interview, 10/11/07]

    Clinton Campaign Said She Was "Not Participating in the Michigan Primary." Clinton spokesman Mo Elleithee said, "Clinton signed a pledge saying she will not campaign. She is not participating in the Michigan primary because she is not campaigning there. She is honoring the pledge." [New Hampshire Union Leader, 10/11/07]

    RHETORIC: "Now, the DNC made the determination that they would not seat the delegates, but I was not party to that"

    REALITY: Clinton Top Delegate Adviser Voted To Strip Michigan And Florida Of Their Delegates

    Clinton Top Delegate Adviser Harold Ickes Voted For Democratic Party Rules That Stripped Michigan And Florida Of Their Delegates. "Harold Ickes, a top adviser to Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton's campaign who voted for Democratic Party rules that stripped Michigan and Florida of their delegates, now is arguing against the very penalty he helped pass. In a conference call Saturday, the longtime Democratic Party member contended the DNC should reconsider its tough sanctions on the two states, which held early contests in violation of party rules. He said millions of voters in Michigan and Florida would be otherwise disenfranchised - before acknowledging moments later that he had favored the sanctions." [AP, 2/17/08]

    RHETORIC: "The people of those two states disregarded adamantly the DNC's decision that they would not seat the delegates. They came out and voted. If they had been influenced by the DNC, despite the fact that there was very little campaign, if any, they would have stayed home but they wanted their voices heard. More than 2 million people came out. I mean, it was record turnout for a primary. Florida, in particular, is sensitive to being disenfranchised because of what happened to them in the last elections. I have said that I would ask my delegates to vote to seat."

    REALITY: Many Voters Stayed Home Because They Knew Their Votes Would Not Select Delegates To the Nominating Convention

    TNR: "Knowing That Their Ballots Meant Nothing, Many Voters [In Michigan And Florida] Stayed Home." "Without ads and stump speeches--Obama's name wasn't even on the ballot in Michigan--the actual primary votes in these states were meaningless beauty contests, and perhaps not even that. Knowing that their ballots meant nothing, many voters stayed home. And, as everyone expected, Hillary romped to victory on the basis of her brand name and voters' lack of familiarity with the alternatives." [Editorial, TNR, 2/8/08]

    The Pledge Clinton Signed

    WHEREAS, Over a year ago, the Democratic National Committee established a 2008 nominating calendar;

    WHEREAS, this calendar honors the racial, ethnic, economic and geographic diversity of our party and our country;

    WHEREAS, the DNC also honored the traditional role of retail politics early in the nominating process, to insure that money alone will not determine our presidential nominee;

    WHEREAS, it is the desire of Presidential campaigns, the DNC, the states and the American people to bring finality, predictability and common sense to the nominating calendar.

    THEREFORE, I, [Name], Democratic Candidate for President, pledge I shall not campaign or participate in any state which schedules a presidential election primary or caucus before Feb. 5, 2008, except for the states of Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire and South Carolina, as "campaigning" is defined by rules and regulations of the DNC.

    POLITICIANS AND EDITORIAL BOARDS SAY THAT THE MICHIGAN AND FLORIDA DELEGATES SHOULD NOT COUNT

    Clinton Backer Bob Kerrey Said "You Don't Change The Rules In The Middle Of The Game. Period" When Asked If the Delegates From Florida And Michigan Should Count. "You don't change the rules in the middle of the game. Period," said former Nebraska Senator Bob Kerrey, The New School's president, when asked if the delegates from the Florida and Michigan primaries should be represented at the Democratic National Convention in August. Scoopy ran into Kerrey on Sunday at Chelsea Piers, where Kerrey had taken his young son and a friend bowling. "No new vote and no new caucuses, either. Just stick to the rules that they agreed to," Kerrey said firmly. The Democratic National Committee stripped both Florida and Michigan of all their delegates because, defying party rules, they held their primaries before Feb. 5. The candidates all agreed to abide by that decision and not campaign in those states. Barack Obama withdrew his name from the ballot in Michigan and didn't compete in Florida. Hillary Clinton won the popular vote in both states and now says their delegates should be counted toward the total. Although Kerrey endorsed Clinton in December, he clearly doesn't endorse her position on the Michigan and Florida delegates. [The Villager, 2/13/08]

    Nancy Pelosi Said That Florida And Michigan Delegates Should Not Be Seated If Those Delegates Would Decide The Nomination. Nancy Pelosi had one more stunner in the interview: She said the Florida and Michigan delegates should not be seated if those delegates would decide the nomination. "Well, I don't think that any states that operated outside the rules of the party can be dispositive of who the nominee is. That is to say they can't make the difference because then we would have no rules," she said. Pelosi added, "But I do think that the best outcome for us is if one of the candidates pulls ahead and this issue is disposed of long before we get to the convention. We certainly don't want to ignore Florida and Michigan, but we can't ignore the rules which everyone else played by." [San Francisco Chronicle, 2/15/08]

    Tom Harkin Said He Staunchly Opposed Seating The Delegates From Michigan And Florida. Tom Harkin said he will staunchly oppose seating delegates chosen in the Michigan and Florida primaries for the same reason he will uphold the superdelegates' independent vote: It's the rules. Michigan and Florida Democrats broke the rules when they moved their primaries ahead of Feb. 5 without permission, Harkin said. "No way I'd ever be in favor of seating them," the senator said. [Telegraph Herald, 2/17/08]

    Al Sharpton Said Seating Delegates From Florida And Michigan At The DNC Would Be A Grave Injustice. Seating delegates from Florida and Michigan at the Democratic National Convention would be a grave injustice, the Rev. Al Sharpton said Wednesday in a break with prominent civil rights leaders. "I firmly believe that changing the rules now, and seating delegates from Florida and Michigan at this point would not only violate the Democratic Party's rules of fairness, but also would be a grave injustice," Sharpton said in a letter to Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean. [AP, 2/13/08]

    Cleveland Plain Dealer: Clinton Wants To Seat The Michigan And Florida Delegates And The Obama Campaign Dismisses That As "Hogwash"; The Obama Campaign Is "Right About That." "Clinton says Michigan and Florida should be seated and their delegates divided in accord with the primary vote. She's won support from NAACP Chairman Julian Bond, who says the party is disenfranchising minority voters. The Obama campaign dismisses that as hogwash. They say Obama ignored both states at the national party's request and shouldn't be penalized for playing by the rules. Even if we hadn't endorsed Obama for the Democratic nomination, we'd have to say he's right about that." [Editorial, Cleveland Plain Dealer, 2/22/08]

    Austin American Statesman: Clinton Wants To Seat The Delegates From Michigan And Florida. "That Would Be Patently Wrong" and "Grossly Unfair To Obama." "Clinton, who won the most votes in the outlaw primaries in Michigan and Florida, now wants those delegates recognized and seated at the Democratic Party national convention in Denver in August. One of her top advisers, Harold Ickes, a Democratic National Committee member who voted to strip delegates from those states, now wants them seated. That would be patently wrong. Party officials told the legislatures in both states they would lose their delegates if they moved their primaries ahead of Super Tuesday, Feb. 5. And the party's presidential candidates agreed not to campaign in states being punished by the Democratic National Committee for setting early primaries...Seating the 156 Michigan and 210 Florida delegates would be grossly unfair to Obama, who, unlike Clinton, didn't go to Florida... The only fair thing for Democratic officials to do is to stick to their guns and ignore the Michigan and Florida delegations or redo the primaries." [Editorial, Austin American Statesman, 2/18/08]

    New York Post: "No Changing The Rules In The Middle Of The Game" When It Comes To Michigan And Florida. "No changing the rules in the middle of the game. Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean must be prepared to deliver that message to Sen. Hillary Clinton and her allies. With a razor-thin delegate margin separating them and ever-fewer states left on the campaign calendar, Clinton and Sen. Barack Obama are working all angles to get to 2,025 - the number needed to win their party's presidential nomination. Which is why the Clinton forces are looking at Michigan and Florida." [Editorial, Editorial, TNR, 2/8/08] ">New York Post, 2/11/08]

    TNR: When It Became Clear That Clinton Faced A Potential Battle For Delegates, She Began To Demand The Rules Be Changed In The Middle Of the Game. "But as soon as it became clear, in the wake of Iowa and on the eve of South Carolina, that Clinton potentially faced an extended battle for delegates, she began to demand that the rules be changed in the middle of the game. Her campaign has been arguing that the non-contested elections in Michigan and Florida should be made retroactively meaningful--and, therefore, that Clinton should be handed a gift of nearly 200 delegates. The Clinton team has wrapped its case in the logic of voter disenfranchisement. `I hear all the time from people in Florida and Michigan that they want their voices heard in selecting the Democratic nominee,' Clinton has said. There is a perfectly cogent case to be made that Floridians and Michiganders deserve their say. (Some of our best friends and elderly relatives reside in those states.) The way to address this complaint is to schedule new elections so that candidates can advertise, make speeches, organize voters, distribute yard signs--you know, do `democracy,' a concept Clinton seems not to understand. The DNC, if it does decide to redress Clinton's complaint, needs to do so immediately." [Editorial, TNR, 2/8/08]

    http://factcheck.barackobama.com/factche ck/2008/02/22/reality_check_on_clintons_ clai.php


    --1jphusseinb-- she's not a monster, as far as I know--diplomat Sinbad, making the world safe--all bluster, no cattle--
    by 1jpb on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 03:02:09 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Obama doesn't have the power... (none / 0)

    Wow, you actually use the exact talking points of the Obama Campaign.  Quite original (oh, like your candidate).


    by anya109 on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 01:46:21 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Obama doesn't have the power... (none / 0)

    It's obvious that this is coming from a paid Obama staffer.

    Of course he/she is using their rhetoric.


    by Dave B on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:34:14 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Obama doesn't have the power... (none / 0)

    Where can I get my check?


    --1jphusseinb-- she's not a monster, as far as I know--diplomat Sinbad, making the world safe--all bluster, no cattle--
    by 1jpb on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 11:09:12 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Obama doesn't have the power... (2.00 / 0)

    At least I give credit.

    It's funny to read the Alegre HRC cut and paste diaries from HRC propaganda central.  Many of the comments thank Alegre for the great work.  Alegre responds by taking credit.

    By the way, my long post at the top of these comments only had one piece from the BHO site.  I put a good amount of effort in that.  And, your fellow HRC supporters zero and troll rated me for no reason at all.  


    --1jphusseinb-- she's not a monster, as far as I know--diplomat Sinbad, making the world safe--all bluster, no cattle--
    by 1jpb on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 11:12:53 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Obama doesn't have the power... (2.00 / 1)

    Michigan State senators allied with Obama's campaign, including Sen. Tupac Hunter and Sen. Buzz Thomas, the co-chair of the Barack OBAMA campaign in Michigan, effectively killed any and all chance for a revote.  


    On to the Convention Floor!
    by oh puhleeze on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 11:48:45 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: I think it would be worthwhile (none / 0)

    **Projecting much?


    If the choice is between hope and fear, always choose hope. BC
    by greylox on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 02:41:29 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Hey, stupid. (1.33 / 3)

    The Legislatures and the Governors of Florida and Michigan disinfranchised voters. Not Obama.

    It doesn;t matter whether Obama wanted or did not want revotes. If those folks wanted to have revotes there would have been revotes regardless of what Barack Obama wanted.

    Blaming Obama for their incompetence is par for the course for Hillary's braid-dead supporters.


    by Hesiod Theogeny on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 09:31:46 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Hey, stupid. (none / 0)

    Hey stupid (just using your derogatory comment to another poster).

    Barack Obama is blocking the re-vote option that the DNC says is ok with their rules.  This is after he said that he would abide with the DNC position.  

    Obama rules: Votes only count when they are for me; rules only matter when they are for me; I can break the rules by buying national ads that play ad nauseum in FL but since even then the voters didn't vote for me, they don't count...


    by anya109 on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 01:50:56 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Hey, stupid. (none / 0)

    Hey stupid again. Barack Obama isn't blocking anything. He has no power to block state legislatures and governors from revoting. None. Nada. Zippo.

    I don't mind you criticizing him for opposing revotes, but saying he's "blocking them" is complete bullshit. He's not.


    by Hesiod Theogeny on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 09:55:33 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Electability is an issue (2.00 / 2)

    that Obama talked about a lot when the number suited him.  Since the object of getting the nomination is to become president, perhaps we should nominate someone who has a chance.  That's not Barack Obama.


    Our long national nightmare is over.
    by Beltway Dem on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 08:08:36 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Your method of determining that? (2.00 / 1)

    I don't get your rationale.  Obama has plenty of electibility.  


    You can't stop the signal.

    President "That One"

    by Dracomicron on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 10:42:39 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Current analysis (2.00 / 3)

    of the electoral college based on state polls show Hillary over McCain by 63 and McCain over Obama by 50.


    Our long national nightmare is over.
    by Beltway Dem on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 11:15:48 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Current analysis (1.50 / 2)

    That means very, very little.

    Two weeks ago Obama was beating McCain by more than Clinton.  Those numbers fluctuate rapidly.  Just wait until there's a week of flap on sniper-gate, and we'll see where Clinton's numbers are.


    You can't stop the signal.

    President "That One"

    by Dracomicron on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 02:55:44 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Current analysis (none / 0)

    They don't fluctuate rapidly unless there is a reason for it - hmm - I wonder what that could be?


    by anya109 on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 01:52:12 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Current analysis (none / 0)


    Yes, that was two weeks ago.  Do you really think that voters are going to forget G-D DAMN AMERICA! if Obama is the nominee and the Repugs get ahold of him?  Do you REALLY think that blue collar/lunchbucket Dems are really going to go for that shit in the GE?  A guy whose morals kept him in a church with a preacher like that for 20+ years against a POW with much more experience and patriotism?  You need to get your head out of the sand and think about the average voter, not the bonehead online bloggers.  Kos and the rest of you "progressive" internetz lackeys are not the average voter.
    by BrandingIron17 on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 01:53:26 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Head in the sand (2.00 / 0)

    Head in the sand is saying that people won't forget some other guy saying "God damn America" but will forget Clinton telling blatantly false fish stories about being in a combat zone.

    Head in the sand is basing your candidacy on your ability to fight through smears like Monica, Whitewater, Travel Office scandal, Vince Foster, lesbianism, Kazikhstan, and the pardons of 140 friends on the last day of Bill's presidency, and then suggest that your opponent is finished by his relationship with one angry black man who said a few angry things at a government that had oppressed his people for hundreds of years.


    You can't stop the signal.

    President "That One"

    by Dracomicron on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:35:38 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Barack I-didn't-know Obama (1.16 / 6)

    What, not even 1 Diary on MyDD re Clinton's pure fabrication of her Tuzla visit?  
     Oh yes, Ignorance is bliss!
    by KLRinLA on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 09:35:54 PM EST

    Actually, (1.85 / 7)

    there was such a diary, and it rolled off into deserved oblivion.

    In case you're interested, Daily Kos is the place to go and read that kind of stuff.  Nonsense like that doesn't get much of an audience here.


    Our long national nightmare is over.
    by Beltway Dem on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 09:40:41 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Wow (2.00 / 3)

    Nonsense like Clinton either baldfaced lying about her overseas experience or completely misremembering important key events of said experience doesn't deserve to be covered, but we're going into the 10th day or more of rambling about Jeremiah Wright, a good man who has been repeatedly smeared by right-wing media?

    I was under the impression that the basis of this website was covering Democratic issues of all sorts, not just the ones that directly benefit Hillary Clinton.


    You can't stop the signal.

    President "That One"

    by Dracomicron on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:17:56 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Wow (none / 0)

    How exactly does whether she walked or ran on the tarmac implicate her foreign policy credentials?


    On to the Convention Floor!
    by oh puhleeze on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 11:37:18 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Wow (none / 0)

    It calls into question whether she remembered other foreign adventures, like bringing peace to Ireland, correctly.


    You can't stop the signal.

    President "That One"

    by Dracomicron on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:36:51 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Barack I-didn't-know Obama (2.00 / 3)

    Holy moly there were like six today....

    How many more Bosnia swift boat hit jobs can we take.


    by MediaFreeze on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 09:41:35 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Swift boat hit jobs? (2.00 / 1)

    Please make me laugh... I'd love to hear exactly how this was a swift boat hit job.  


    by alb on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 03:51:19 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Barack I-didn't-know Obama (2.00 / 0)

    holy moly, is the best moly

    from http://www.BulbSociety.com we find that according to the ancient Greek poet Homer, the magical properties of Allium moly allowed Ulysses to enter unharmed the lair of the sorceress Circe. Southern European folklore regards the plant as good luck and a protection against demons. Allium moly is an ornamental allium, or flowering onion. It is a close relative of the famous edible alliums: Allium sativum (garlic) and Allium cepa (the common cooking onion).

    Garlic reportedly gave strength to the pyramid builders and courage to the Roman legions. Medicinally, it has served as a popular remedy for colds, sore throats and coughs; physicians and herbalists prescribed garlic as a diuretic and for intestinal disorders and rheumatism; and people ate garlic daily as protection against plagues, disease and, of course, creatures of darkness. Early American colonists relied on the plant to treat a variety of medical problems, while later settlers strapped garlic cloves to the feet of smallpox victims hoping to cure them.

    Onions also have been used medicinally for centuries. In the Middle Ages the onion was used as a charm against evil spirits, the plague and infection. The onion was a favorite spring food of American Indians, providing a frontiersman with a good nose a telltale means of locating an Indian encampment.


    --1jphusseinb-- she's not a monster, as far as I know--diplomat Sinbad, making the world safe--all bluster, no cattle--
    by 1jpb on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 03:06:05 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Barack I-didn't-know Obama (2.00 / 6)

    What, not even 1 Diary on MyDD re Clinton's pure fabrication of her Tuzla visit?

    Not that this is worth responding to, but let's get a few facts straight. The following pieces of her Tuzla story been confirmed:

    UPDATE Friday 6:45 p.m.

    Lissa Muscatine, who served as Hilary Clinton's chief speechwriter in 1996 and accompanied her on the Bosnia trip, feels that I have failed to provide a full picture of what took place. She gave me her "vivid recollections" of the arrival in Tuzla, which I quote below:

    I was on the plane with then First Lady Hillary Clinton for the trip from Germany into Bosnia in 1996. We were put on a C17-- a plane capable of steep ascents and descents -- precisely because we were flying into what was considered a combat zone. We were issued flak jackets for the final leg because of possible sniper fire near Tuzla. As an additional precaution, the First Lady and Chelsea were moved to the armored cockpit for the descent into Tuzla. We were told that a welcoming ceremony on the tarmac might be canceled because of sniper fire in the hills surrounding the air strip. From Tuzla, Hillary flew to two outposts in Bosnia with gunships escorting her helicopter.

    UPDATE Saturday 8:45 a.m.

    Gen. Nash says that I misquoted him in saying he was unaware of any "security threat" to the First Lady. While he was unaware of any "sniper threat," he now tells me there were a couple of "security concerns" that day, which he found out about after returning to his headquarters after greeting Clinton at the airport. There was a "non-specific report" of a possible truck bomb in the area. The military also had information that "some of the communications associated with the First Lady's visit were being monitored."

    Where Clinton misspoke was in remembering actual sniper fire and running from the plane to the awaiting vehicle. But she probably had a heightened sense of danger at the time because Chelsea was traveling with her.

    But if that's the best response you have to this diary, then you may as well run with it.


    Fortune strums a mournful tune for those whose campaigns peak too soon. --Bored of the Rings
    by Inky on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 10:24:43 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Sniper fire (2.00 / 2)

    She probably mis-remembered the eight year old girl as a sniper, and her poem and kisses were bullets whizzing by.

    She really ought to just say, "Okay, you caught me.  I pulled a doozey.  Well done."

    How does she intend to run against McCain, who is legendary in his candidness with the press?


    You can't stop the signal.

    President "That One"

    by Dracomicron on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:22:01 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Barack I-didn't-know Obama (2.00 / 1)

    So it's OK that she made up a tall tale because she was scared?
    by joseb on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 03:16:36 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Barack I-didn't-know Obama (2.00 / 2)

    If you want I could write a diary on Obama's tall tales (and I do know of several), but I don't see what purpose it would serve. But perhaps I'm wrong, so let me know if you'd like one. This is how I see it. Hillary remembered the sniper threat and imagined sniper fire as well as -- memories have ways of playing tricks on us, particularly memories of dangerous situations. So no, she didn't make up a tall tale, as much of the essential story was true -- she misremembered some details and misspoke. If you need to play up this minor gaffe in order to justfy your support for another candidate, that really doesn't say much for your candidate.


    Fortune strums a mournful tune for those whose campaigns peak too soon. --Bored of the Rings
    by Inky on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 11:10:40 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Barack I-didn't-know Obama (2.00 / 1)

    You are so funny.  You've got guts to clip the last part of a fact check that gave HRC four Pinocchios.  

    Four, that's the maximum level.  It's only assigned to whoppers.  And, you think this is beneficial to HRC, that's really funny.

    We have a tape.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=It6JN7ALF 7Y&eurl=http://www.dailykos.com/stor yonly/2008/3/23/95418/5038/471/482606

    And she's been caught with N. Ireland, and SCHIP, and Nafta, and FMLA.

    Inky, in the past I've appreciated the back and forth with you, but your post here is really desperate.  Yikes!


    --1jphusseinb-- she's not a monster, as far as I know--diplomat Sinbad, making the world safe--all bluster, no cattle--
    by 1jpb on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 03:14:43 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Tuzla (none / 0)

    I turned the tv on for a few seconds several times today.  Each time the Horrible Giant Tuzla LieLieLie was featured, and being treated as worse than Watergate, final proof that she's a total lying phony scum with no foreign policy experience whatsoever, she's finished, dead, drop out time.  I don't need no stinkin' diary, and yes, there they are anyway.


    On to the Convention Floor!
    by oh puhleeze on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 11:35:12 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Devastating... (2.00 / 11)

    Incredible work. Highly recommended. Well sourced. People need to be held responsible for their actions. This diary should be the grist for a substantive conversation on each and every one of these issues.


    by MediaFreeze on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 09:40:41 PM EST

    Hear, hear! n/t (2.00 / 1)


    Re-elect the President in 2012
    by DemAC on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 03:07:40 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Devastating... (2.00 / 1)

    Your funny, read my post near the top of this comment list.

    You'll find that a lot of the provided sources undercut the diarist's points.

    It's funny.


    --1jphusseinb-- she's not a monster, as far as I know--diplomat Sinbad, making the world safe--all bluster, no cattle--
    by 1jpb on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 03:16:33 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Barack I-didn't-know Obama (2.00 / 1)

    Look, I'm not going to argue with you abuot Barack, its clear we wont convince each other, what I'm curious about, is why you view Hillary as electable? Why do you think a canidate that is viewed asa liar by the majority of the American people will win their votes? Do you think that people will suddenly decide that honesty is overrated or what?


    by Socraticsilence on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 09:47:29 PM EST

    Re: Barack I-didn't-know Obama (2.00 / 6)

    Check out the state by state polls of her verses McCain as opposed to Obama verses McCain. Then you will understand.


    "Do you know the difference between a War Story and a Fairy Tale?"
    by RedstateLib on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 10:25:25 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Barack I-didn't-know Obama (none / 0)

    Why don't you provide the polls your talking about?  There are some phony assertions being used on myDD.


    --1jphusseinb-- she's not a monster, as far as I know--diplomat Sinbad, making the world safe--all bluster, no cattle--
    by 1jpb on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 03:18:46 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Barack I-didn't-know Obama (2.00 / 7)

    As people get to know Hillary better, they will come to trust her more. One of the nice things about having been the subject of a smear campaign is that as people get to know you, their opinion of you can only rise.

    People in New York didn't think Hillary could get elected Senator either. There she was, a carpet bagger, at a time when the whole country was experiencing Clinton fatigue from the Lewinsky affair, et al. But not only did she pull it off, but she won the support of upstate rural New York (the equivalent of winning in a red state) by doing what she does best, campaigning hard and listening carefully to what was on people's minds.

    I used to not give her enough credit for her first senate run, but it truly was pretty remarkable. Compare that to Barack Obama, who has never once had a serious challenger in a GE.


    Fortune strums a mournful tune for those whose campaigns peak too soon. --Bored of the Rings
    by Inky on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 10:50:45 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Seems to me... (2.00 / 2)

    He ran against Representative Bobby Rush in 2000.  So I'd say that was serious, as he lost.

    I'd also say that Clinton is a serious opponent, and the primary has been, essentially, dozens of general elections.

    Anyway, just to provide counterpoint to your statement, the more I've gotten to know Clinton, the less I like her.  I started out in her corner, but it was her own words and gamesmanship that pushed me to embrace Obama more truly.  It was right about the time her campaign started calling various state primaries "insignificant" because they didn't vote majority for her.

    I'm glad that you can find so much inspiration in Hillary Clinton, but I don't think I'm atypical in having been lost by Clinton, rather than "stolen" by Obama.


    You can't stop the signal.

    President "That One"

    by Dracomicron on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:30:06 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Seems to me... (2.00 / 5)

    Obama's loss to Bobby Rush was in the primary -- I know all about it, but was too courteous to dwell on it.

    I was as far away from Hillary's corner as one can get until a couple of months ago. I was an Edwards supporter and I assumed I would side with Obama over Hillary if it came to that. But when Edwards dropped out of the race I realized I preferred Hillary's stands on various issues including health care reform, and I was disgusted by Obama's "Harry and Louise" ads and the multiple bogus accusations of race-baiting leveled at both Bill and Hillary -- it was so unnecessary -- Obama was going to get the bulk of the AA vote after Iowa had established him as a credible candidate -- there was no need to poison the well, but Obama's surrogates did so anyway. Finally, as I got to know Obama's advisers better, I realized that of the two remaining candidates, I actually preferred Hillary.


    Fortune strums a mournful tune for those whose campaigns peak too soon. --Bored of the Rings
    by Inky on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:52:22 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Seems to me... (none / 0)

    Barack............WE HARDLY KNEW YOU!

    Hillary 08


    by Patriot2008 on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 03:03:18 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Seems to me... (2.00 / 1)

    Wow, that is some reason to support a candidate because another candidate's campaign "dissed" some states.

    How about Obama not doing anything about his "people" in Chicago who were freezing and living in trash heaps that his political mentor, slumlord Tony Rezko "renovated".  At least 11 buildings were in Obama's State Senate District and about a mile from his mansion that same slumlord helped him buy.  That is one of many issues that made me go away from Obama.


    by anya109 on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 02:03:26 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    All the marbles (2.00 / 0)

    Obama worked on behalf of those people for many years as a community organizer and as a state senator.  

    He eventually realized that he could do more good fixing things if he had higher office.

    Obama is playing for all the marbles.  He's in no way less serious about his people back home, but he also realizes that there are people everywhere that need help.


    You can't stop the signal.

    President "That One"

    by Dracomicron on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:40:42 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Barack I-didn't-know Obama (2.00 / 1)

    Check her electoral vote and you will see.

    Hillary Clinton 294
    John McCain 231
    Tie 13   

    John McCain 288
    Barack Obama 238
    Tie 12


    by JoeySky18 on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:00:28 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    In March, great (2.00 / 2)

    Clinton was up by 10% in Wisconsin before Obama spent a week campaigning there.  He walked out of that state with 58% of the vote.

    I'm not saying that Clinton would lose the general election to McCain, but a lot can happen in a week, much less seven months.  Also, running numbers like that shortly after the hardest week Obama's had in the campaign so far is more than a little sketchy.


    You can't stop the signal.

    President "That One"

    by Dracomicron on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:34:48 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: In March, great (2.00 / 0)

    Prove it. Link to the poll you're talking about.


    by mrstas on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 08:28:18 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    My apologies (2.00 / 1)

    I was thinking about a poll that I heard on TV in early February.

    In going over online results, I see Clinton was within the margin for error (Obama 47%, Clinton 43%, MOE 4%) less than a week before the WI primary:

    http://electioninspection.wordpress.com/ 2008/02/14/rasmussen-roundup-obama-leads -wi-by-4-trails-in-ohio-by-14/

    Obama won 58% to 41%, a change from a 4% lead to a 17% lead in less than a week.

    The point is that Obama can surprise folks.


    You can't stop the signal.

    President "That One"

    by Dracomicron on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 10:38:34 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: My apologies (none / 0)

    yes, he sure can when he lied about NAFTA and health care there and got away with it.


    by anya109 on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 02:04:56 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: My apologies (2.00 / 0)

    He didn't lie about either one of those.  The Canada NAFTA rumors were thouroughly debunked and the health care mailers outlined the single difference between their health care plans. What, you don't want him campaigning on the issues?


    You can't stop the signal.

    President "That One"

    by Dracomicron on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:42:26 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Barack I-didn't-know Obama (none / 0)

    This looks like the junk science that someone was trying to spread on myDD.

    Please refer to the 50 state polls that allow you to come to this electoral math.


    --1jphusseinb-- she's not a monster, as far as I know--diplomat Sinbad, making the world safe--all bluster, no cattle--
    by 1jpb on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 03:20:32 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Barack I-didn't-know Obama (2.00 / 4)

    excellent research and sourcing. it's part of a pattern.


    by campskunk on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 09:49:42 PM EST

    Re: Barack I-didn't-know Obama (2.00 / 1)

    The sourcing given undercuts the diarist's points.

    Look at my post way up near the top.


    --1jphusseinb-- she's not a monster, as far as I know--diplomat Sinbad, making the world safe--all bluster, no cattle--
    by 1jpb on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 03:21:22 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Barack I-didn't-know Obama (2.00 / 5)

    Outstanding research, presentation and the sourcing is comprehensive!

    Maybe you can offer classes on "old-fashioned, objective journalism" to the MSM???

    Thanks- keep writing!


    by ProudMilitaryMom on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 10:10:46 PM EST

    Re: Barack I-didn't-know Obama (2.00 / 3)

    EXCELLENT POST....GREAT KEEPSAKE...THIS WAY ALL THIS INFO Is HANDY IN ONE DIARY...THANK YOU...YOU DID AN EXCELLENT JOB PUTTING THIS TOGETHER...

    Go Hillary!


    by Patriot2008 on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 10:39:49 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Barack I-didn't-know Obama (2.00 / 1)

    This diarist uses links that undercut their own points.  Look at my post near the top.


    --1jphusseinb-- she's not a monster, as far as I know--diplomat Sinbad, making the world safe--all bluster, no cattle--
    by 1jpb on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 03:22:10 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Barack I-didn't-know Obama (2.00 / 3)

    Excellent research.  Thoughtful and important diary.  Thank you.  recommended.


    by macmcd on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 10:45:55 PM EST

    Barack is nothing but the anti-Clinton (1.50 / 2)

    for the Clinton-hating DKossacks and DUers  to swoon over. I'll love watching that crowd turn on him when he doesn't do everything according to Kos' absolutist line.


    "there is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured by what is right in America"-William Jefferson Clinton, forty-second President of the United States
    by DiamondJay on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 10:49:46 PM EST

    Substitute Bush for Clinton (none / 0)

    and you sound exactly like redstate.com.

    You're ignorant of many of Kos' highly critical posts of Obama.

    But like it or not, he's going to win the nomination.  Time to decide whether you'd rather have him or John McCain as president.


    by corph on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 03:39:25 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Barack I-didn't-know Obama (2.00 / 4)

    My Oh My!...

    There are so much that I didn't know about Obama.

    Thanks for the excellent consolidation of the important thing we should know about Obama.

    You should send it to MSM and news paper.

    Thanks a lot.  You did a great service to help fellow voters made informed decision.


    by JoeySky18 on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 10:49:52 PM EST

    Re: Barack I-didn't-know Obama (2.00 / 4)

    Wow. Thank you so much for putting this together.

    If Obama gets the nomination,  and Corpress actually begins delving into his past, many of his supporters (you know all those new people he's pulling in to Obamanation!) who believe he is some kind of different are going to be in for a rude awakening...

    I also think it's fairly ironic that the 2nd person to run on the idea that he's a uniter, is pretty much ripping the Dem party in 1/2.

    Going into bookmarks!


    by jen on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 10:54:12 PM EST

    Re: Barack I-didn't-know Obama (2.00 / 3)

    16 points? Wow! Okay, so, some of your "evidence" is taken out of context. Some is fabricated. Some is true. Some is  Republican talking points (shame on you).

    If you're telling me that all that is bad about the dude fits on one page for me to print out, then say hello to President Obama.

    Now, to the point I wanted to make when I decided to dignify your hit piece with a response. I quote you:

    "a church where racism and anti-American hate is routinely preached"

    Routinely? Says who? Where's your evidence? I want more than 10 videos or however many you think you have watched (or have been told by fox that you've watched). Typical of some party, not ours, where you take someone like Rev. Wright, take the worst of his sermons, chop 'em up, delete any residue of context, and turn the man into a monster. Typical of some party, not ours. We take the good with the bad my friend. Typical of our party to present the good with the bad. So where is all the good that Rev. Wright has done? Where is all the good that Senator Obama has done? Or is he truly an empty suit? Transparent? Or black? Or not black enough?

    So, dear diarist, should it not be typical of you, a democrat, to spend your time on documenting and spreading all the good things that Senator Clinton has done (which I'm sure there are many) instead of trying to bring the opponent down?

    But for that question we already know the answer.


    _____________
    changiness
    by lizardbox on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:02:18 PM EST

    Just for context (2.00 / 3)

    http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/3/23/0433 4/5836

    The non-hatchet-jobbed sermons.  Wright was a good man, and I can't find anything in those that are racist.


    You can't stop the signal.

    President "That One"

    by Dracomicron on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:38:19 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Just for context (2.00 / 1)

    While I'm sure these sermons were wonderful in their complete context, all you have to do is think of the Republican 527s getting hold of the selective clips put out by Faux News and made into an ad.
    No right winger is going to take the time to read the entire sermon- did anyone besides Democrats look into Kerry's war records when he was swiftboated?
    All they will hear from now until the GE is the man who said he wanted to "transcend" race sat in a church pew for 20 years listening to the preacher who said that white America infected black people with AIDs, "god DAMN America" and "chickens coming home to roost (similar to Malcom X's statement after the assasination of JFK)".

    If you remember the Swift Boaters, you'll understand that no one is interested in reading those sermons.


    "Who are you for? That is the wrong question. It should be who is for you?" HRC
    by skohayes on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 11:35:05 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Reality check (none / 0)

    Your candidate's basing her candidacy on the idea that 527 smear campaigns can be beaten.  There's a hundred times more dirt (both false and legitimate) on the Clintons than there is on Obama.

    By your estimation, we should just give up now, because both of our candidates is iredeemably flawed vs. 527s.

    Or, we can admit that both of our guys have more backbone than John Kerry, and continue from there.


    You can't stop the signal.

    President "That One"

    by Dracomicron on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 02:59:56 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Reality check (none / 0)

    Ok - why does Obama say he condemns and denounces these?


    by anya109 on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 02:10:46 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Reality check (2.00 / 0)

    He wasn't a fan of a few things Wright said, but you can't argue that these angry things were more than a tiny, tiny fraction of a 30+ year ministry spent praising God and doing work for the community.

    Wright marched with Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.  Surely he has things to teach beyond "God Damn America."


    You can't stop the signal.

    President "That One"

    by Dracomicron on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:15:06 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Barack I-didn't-know Obama (2.00 / 1)

    Hi all!

    I find all this very fascinating and am just getting started learning about this stuff.  

    One question though; how come some of these quotes and things aren't given in the context of what it was he was actually speaking about?  I'm just asking because I'm new to this whole political scene, and have only been voting for a bit (firt Prez election)... but I just thought I'd ask.  

    Other than those obvious omissions and the stuff that was widely reported already, I loved the way this stuff was presented.  Neat bullet points and formating! Loved it!!!

    One other question; did someone on Team Hillary contact the Chief of Staff of the Premere of Canada?  I've been told by many Obama supporters this is true.  My dad says yes and my mom says no!

    Anyway, keep it up.  This was pretty good!


    by Chelseain32 on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:04:19 PM EST

    Re: Barack I-didn't-know Obama (2.00 / 1)

    To answer your question re: Hillary team contacting Canada:

    from globeandmail.com:

    PMO: Officials only got briefing from Obama campaign


    by jen on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 12:39:43 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Barack I-didn't-know Obama (none / 0)

    Wow... thanks!  That article really seems to contradict itself, and uses the word allegedly when referring to Mr. Obama.  Strange how the same paper was the one that had the original story, and then Mr. Harper kinda made a stink about it and then Mr. Brodie kinda changed his tune.  What to believe, especially because these guys are super duper conservative, right?  So, I mean, noo way Hillary is working deals with these guys right... even though Brodie mentions her specifically???

    Who cares really, cuz the Canada media is prolly just as bad and tainted as the American media.  They stink with all their biases!


    by Chelseain32 on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 12:55:27 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Barack I-didn't-know Obama (2.00 / 1)

    Let's see, there is a memo proving that Obama's campaign did have contact with Brodie and did talk about NAFTA (no "allegedly" there), even though the campaign denied such a meeting.
    And there is a statement from Harper's spokeswoman flatly stating the Clinton campaign had no contact with the Canadian government regarding NAFTA.
    So I'm not sure why you're having difficulty comprehending the article.
    "Who are you for? That is the wrong question. It should be who is for you?" HRC
    by skohayes on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 11:43:11 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Barack I-didn't-know Obama (1.50 / 4)

    While trying to respond to another thread, I did a google search and found a compilation of Barack's lies:

    here.


    by Hurdy Gurdy on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:10:41 PM EST

    Re: Barack I-didn't-know Obama (2.00 / 1)

    That's quite a list...


    by MediaFreeze on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 01:13:00 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Hey everyone... (2.00 / 1)

    My new favorite website is called "Freedom's Enemies".  It's a really really great site that tells me exactly who hates freedom.  Awesome!!!!  USA, USA, USA, USA, USA, USA


    by alb on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 04:03:00 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Barack I-didn't-know Obama (2.00 / 8)

    Okay, where to begin? Some of this is valid criticism, some of it I just don't have time to research. But other parts are just flat-out dishonest. So here goes, as best as I can do somewhat on the fly...

    1. "Obama first claimed not to know about Wright's inflammatory statements. He later admitted he did."

    Nope, bzzzzt. I know Universal got him/herself a nice little spot on the rec list for typing exactly that, but it's demonstrably false. Obama stated he did not hear the HIV or GD America comments. He also stated he was present when Wright made other controversial remarks in criticizing U.S. policies. There's a link in my diary here.

    3. I know you really, really want Rezko to be this big, huge scandal despite both Chicago papers having come away satisfied with Obama's explanation of his involvement. But that's okay. I understand...keep hope alive. Of course, we won't mention that the people who sold Obama his home stated that his was their best offer, and it had nothing to do with some kind of Rezko land deal.

    But even putting that aside, I'm kind of surprised a Clinton supporter wants to talk about "shady fund-raisers." Norman Hsu, anyone?

    4. Now this one is funny. You want to talk about earmarks? Well, I'd love to, but Clinton won't release hers. Or her tax returns, or the list of Clinton Library donors.

    7. This is pretty shameful. The Black Panthers page was a user-created profile, which was deleted after the campaign found out about it. In other words, I could go and crate the MyDD account name "Black Panthers Party 2008," take a snapshot of it, and run around the Internet doing exactly what you're doing.

    9. NAFTA again? I would've thought the release of Clinton's White House papers might've put that to an end, considering she hosted a NAFTA advocacy meeting as First Lady. As for Goolsbee, the Canadian government had to apologize for getting it wrong:

    The memo was simply inaccurate, as even the Harper government now acknowledges after a firestorm of criticism by opposition parliament members, who've accused Harper's staffers of trying to help their Republican allies across the border by attacking the more likely Democratic candidate. In response, Harper called the leak "blatantly unfair," pledged to get to the bottom of it, and said "there was no intention to convey, in any way, that Senator Obama and his campaign team were taking a different position in public from views expressed in private, including about NAFTA."

    And of course, there's this little nugget:

    "someone from (Hillary) Clinton's campaign is telling the embassy to take it with a grain of salt. . .That someone called us and told us not to worry."

    But yeah, it's Obama that was doing the wink-wink routine. Regardless of who said what, once again you've been punked, this time by Harper's rightwing Candian-style Bushies.

    10. To paraphrase Inigo Montoya, I do not think those links say what you think they do:

    MR. RUSSERT: The question is, here at home what are the politics, and you said this according to the Chicago Tribune. "It is arguable that the best politics going into '06 would be a clear, succinct message, `Let's bring our troops home.'...It's certainly easier to communicate and I think would probably have some pretty strong resonance with the American people right now."

    More importantly, your two 'damning' quotes--the "I might be wrong" and "there's no difference in our position ones--come from the SAME "Commentary" article, with NO SOURCE LINK provided.

    Why does this matter? Because it's author, Peter Wehner, works for the Bush White House. In other words, you just got punked by a Bushie.

    Needless to say, I'm sure this response will be ignored.


    by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:21:53 PM EST

    Re: Barack I-didn't-know Obama (none / 0)


    It'll be ignored just as hard as you ignored the original poster's #12.

    Really now, if the post was b.s., you'd at least TRY and make a poor attempt (like another commenter above) to disprove each point.


    by BrandingIron17 on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 07:13:08 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Barack I-didn't-know Obama (none / 0)

    When I wrote the comment, I only saw 10 bullet points, the last being Iraq. Either it was updated later, or I missed a bunch.

    Just glancing at them, Clinton made the exact same comment when she ran for re-election in 2006. Everyone does. It's a joke, much like people who obviously want to be VP will claim they'll never accept the VP slot.

    I am at work and don't have time to research and respond to the rest of the other points at the moment.

    If you had read my comment, you'd see at the top that I acknowledge some of those I skipped (pre #10), were valid criticisms. I do know a lot of his Illinois papers are gone, but he says state senators' papers aren't archived like a congressman's are. He also said he passed down what he had to his successor. I read some commentary that it's unusual to not have the papers. It may well be, and I have little to add without researching the Illinois State Senate's archiving procedures.


    by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 11:30:18 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Barack I-didn't-know Obama (2.00 / 4)

    Wowzer!

    This needs to be blasted out to every freakin' super delegate out there!

    EXCELLENT WORK!  Highly recommended!


    Donate to Hillary Now!
    by alegre on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:37:20 PM EST

    They've heard it all. (none / 0)

    And either reject it, or don't care.  You've lost, Alegre.  You just don't know it yet.  It will soon be time to realize you have a hard choice to make this fall between Barack Obama and John McCain.


    by corph on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 03:45:40 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Should be Front Paged (2.00 / 5)

    A similiar diary about Clinton would be front-paged in a moment by Daily Kos.

    Jerome should seriously consider front-paging this diary.


    by gaf on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:42:36 PM EST

    Re: Barack I-didn't-know Obama (2.00 / 2)

    I read this at No Quarter earlier. Wow, fantastic work!


    by Fleaflicker on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 12:05:13 AM EST

    Re: Barack I-didn't-know Obama (2.00 / 2)

    Good job.  Great piece of info.


    by environmentally blue on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 12:12:10 AM EST

    Re: Barack I-didn't-know Obama (2.00 / 3)

    Being brand new to this process and being completely fed-up with the last seven years... I have to say seeing the so-called "Die-Hard" Democrats on this website "knee-capping" both Democratic candidates both infuriates and confuses me.  Are we not supposed to be channelling that energy and dislike toward John McCain???

    I guess by humiliating, degrading and outright smearing our candidates, this so-called vetting process will help our eventual nominee.

    Don't you see this is exactly what the GOP Party wants us to do??  Or are you to selfish to think about the real possibility of 4 more years of the Bush regime??

    Keep this up and I GUARANTEE you, no matter the Democratic nominee, will get beat soundly in the GE!!


    Toot, thank you for raising such a terrific person...You done good and we will have you in our hearts.
    by hootie4170 on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 12:16:01 AM EST

    Re: Barack I-didn't-know Obama (2.00 / 1)

    Blogging is insignificant in the big picture.  Mydd will not affect the election one way or another.  Real people are actually out there living real lives watching the news, not blogging.  If you want to go after anything or anyone about ruining Democrats chances year after year, go after msnbc, cnn, and fox.  They are your real Democrat destroyers.


    by Scotch on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 12:19:31 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Barack I-didn't-know Obama (2.00 / 4)

    I disagree...While you are right concerning the MSM, people on this site take their talking points from them and spread them like viruses, not too mention the countless of people they personally talk to.

    Watch the news, all we see is Pastor Wright (Pro-Clinton), Bosnia (Pro-Obama) and god knows what else that has nothing to do with the issues.

    I'd be willing to accept a president that embellished a trip to Bosnia if she could help me out at the gas pump.  I'd be willing to accept a president who attends a "controversial" church if he could get my cousin home from Iraq.

    What does a pastor, Bosnia, Ferrarro, Rezko, mean to me???  Absolutely nothing??  It doesn't help me pay my bills, keep me from forgetting about my cousin or getting affordable healthcare.

    But we will continue to discuss irrelevant and damaging topics about both of our candidates until neither of them are electable...truly sad.


    Toot, thank you for raising such a terrific person...You done good and we will have you in our hearts.
    by hootie4170 on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 12:35:15 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Barack I-didn't-know Obama (2.00 / 2)

    You're FAR too sensible for this place.  :)


    I'm as strong as a bull moose, and you can use me to the limit. - Teddy Roosevelt
    by fogiv on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 01:49:05 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Barack I-didn't-know Obama (2.00 / 4)

    What a fantastic diary!  Thanks for doing the job of the press and organizing all of this.  It looks so simple, yet, it is such a mystery to PressObama.


    by Scotch on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 12:16:16 AM EST

    Bookmarked (2.00 / 2)

    for future reference and re-reading.  Great piece of journalism.  Everyone needs to read this.


    It does not take many words to tell the truth Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
    by Gabriele Droz on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 12:24:33 AM EST

    Re: Barack I-didn't-know Obama (2.00 / 1)

    I see the usual suspects trolling around asking for "any source? links?" are not touching this diary.

    Great job in highlighting all the hypocrisy from Obama. He is a liar just like any other politician. So much for a new kind of politics.


    by Sandeep on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 12:47:27 AM EST

    Re: Barack I-didn't-know Obama (none / 0)

    What does it meant o be "trolling"?


    by Chelseain32 on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 12:59:38 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Barack I-didn't-know Obama (none / 0)

    And please don't call Hillary a liar!


    by Chelseain32 on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 01:00:12 AM EST

    Re: Barack I-didn't-know Obama (2.00 / 1)

    OK. She just doesn't always tell the truth.


    Your old role is rapidly aging. Please get out of the new one if you can't lend a hand, for the times they are a changing.
    by Travis Stark on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 08:46:12 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Barack I-didn't-know Obama (2.00 / 3)

    Adding the link to this revealing article because it explains a lot about why, with all Obama's "boneheaded mistakes" he is still being pushed by Corporate Press, the power players in the Dem Party, and many in the Repub party, and being heavily funded by Wall Street.

    It's actually pretty scary, and I hope everyone will take the time to read it. Someone linked to it in the comments at No Quarter, and although it is from March 5, I have not seen it posted anywhere before this.

    The Obama Bubble: Why Wall Street Needs a Presidential Brand

    By Pam Martens @ Black Agenda Report

    Despite Barack Obama's claim that his campaign represents a mass "movement" of "average folks," the initial core of his support was largely comprised of rich denizens of Wall Street. Why would the super wealthy want a percieved "black populist" to become the nation's chief executive officer? The "Obama bubble" was nurtured by Wall Street in order to have a friend in the White House when the captains of capital are made to face the legal consequences for deliberately creating current and past economic "bubbles." Wall Street desperately needs a president who will "sweep all the corruption and losses, would-be indictments, perp walks and prosecutions under the rug and get on with an unprecedented taxpayer bailout of Wall Street." Who better to sell this "agenda to the millions of duped mortgage holders and foreclosed homeowners in minority communities across America than our first, beloved, black president of hope and change?"

    Read on...


    by jen on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 02:23:01 AM EST

    Hillary can't beat Obama... (none / 0)

    yet I'm supposed to believe she can beat McCain.  Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha...


    by alb on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 03:53:25 AM EST

    Re: Hillary can't beat Obama... (none / 0)

    Sure she can and has.  Let's  see how the upcoming primaries match up.  I would like to see the voters decide in these plus MI and FL.


    by anya109 on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 02:06:30 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Huh? (2.00 / 0)

    She can, sure, but "has?"

    I wasn't aware that she had run against McCain before.


    You can't stop the signal.

    President "That One"

    by Dracomicron on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:43:20 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Two corporate candidates... (2.00 / 3)

    how about that? That's why I was an Edwards supporter. More of the same; for the corporations, by the corporations.


    by soyousay on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 07:25:18 AM EST

    Re: Barack I-didn't-know Obama (1.50 / 2)

    What an insanely laughable diary. Just a lie a minute, interspersed with half truths and innuendo. A real laugh riot. You should write for the GOP. This is definitely up to their standards.


    Your old role is rapidly aging. Please get out of the new one if you can't lend a hand, for the times they are a changing.
    by Travis Stark on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 08:04:43 AM EST

    Re: Barack I-didn't-know Obama (2.00 / 4)

    This diary is all the more laughable given Allegre's saintly diary this morning about how negative the Obama campaing has gone. I swore I wouldn't do this but...

    1. Go listen to the longer sermon excerpts. No matter how much you try to paint Trinity United Church of Christ as a place of hate, it doesn't make it so.

    2. What part of blind trust don't you understand.

    3. Tony Rezko's trial is unrelated to Barack Obama. Everyone who has looked at his relationship with Rezko has said that although Sen. Obama would have been smarter to keep more distance between himself and Rezko, Obama has done nothing wrong.

    4. Yup. Obama has release his earmarks. Hillary has not. Can you say transparency?

    5. HopePac was a Pac to raise money to get Democrats elected and given Obama's money raising ability was very successful in doing that, giving money to many house and senate candidates, including Sen. Clinton. Obama's connection to HopePac was severed before the Presidential campaign.

    6. Pot this is kettle? Sen. Clinton stonewalls every request for tax returns for the last 6 years in which Bill has been out taking money from potential conflicts of interest. We'll never see the Clinton Foundation donors list before the primary season is over, and you guys have the nerve to say Obama is stonewalling? Give me a break. Tell that to the Saudis with their $10 million "investment" in the Clinton Library.

    7. Anyone can put up a blog page on the Obama site. There was one purporting to be from Hillary for a while I believe.

    8. As you no doubt know by now, present votes in the Illinois legislature are often used as a tool to manipulate outcomes. You should know this since Hillary has been harping on this since New Hampshire when Planned Parenthood had to come to Obama's defense to call Hillary out on this deceptive meme.

    9. The Canadians involved have all denied this, and moreover, some have said that it was the Clinton campaing that first tried to distance itself from its own NAFTA campaign rhetoric.

    10. This old stuff again. Obama was against the war. Hillary voted for it. 4000 are dead.. What more do you need to know. All the rest are attempts to take a few words out of context here or there to lessen Hillary's culpability for those deaths.

    11. Ah no. The committee in question has nothing to do with Afghanistan, and Sen. Clinton hasn't been attending too many committee meetings of late either as I recall. In fact, she couldn't even swing cross town for the FISA vote when she was a few miles away.

    12. Who knew things were going to get so screwed up. You are familiar with the phrase, "the fierce urgency of now?"

    13. No. Sen. Obama said he'd consider it.

    14. That nuclear bill, watered down as it was, was groundbreaking in it's scope, but you'd rather nothing got passed, so you'll be happy to know the Republicans killed it. This is called crafting legislation, and it is an example of how we will finally make progress on progressive issues under an Obama administration as opposed to drawing lines in the sand and never getting anything done.

    15. Sen. Obama has said many times that the perfect system would be single payer. I've heard him say it myself, but neither he, nor apparently Sen. Clinton, believe we can get there from where we are in any reasonable amount of time. Since the only difference with your candidate is mandates, this seems like just another GOP talking point.

    16. This LIE again. One of his campaign chairs was registered to lobby THE NEW HAMPSHIRE LEGISLATURE, not any federal body. Compare this to Clinton's campaign, where lobbyists rule from top to bottom.

    There . I've wasted a whole half hour of my precious day, mostly from my head, while you've been busy tearing down our Democratic Party nominee for November, because make no mistake. That's what you're doing. I'll expect a diary from Allegre any moment now to denounce the negative tactics of this diary. (Ya. Right.)


    Your old role is rapidly aging. Please get out of the new one if you can't lend a hand, for the times they are a changing.
    by Travis Stark on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 08:41:46 AM EST

    Re: Barack I-didn't-know Obama (2.00 / 3)

    Sorry - there are a bunch of half-truths and falsehoods here, but a few whoppers that really stick out:

    2) Apparently you didn't understand that the trust really wasn't blind.  A minor point, and frankly, not a big deal in the grand scheme of things, but your statement is incorrect.

    3) If the Rezko trial has nothing to do with Obama, why does Obama have a staffer there every day taking notes?  Can't he get coverage of his 20-year friend's trial from his friend Tony or from the Chicago news?

    4) I agree. Hillary should release hers, just as Obama should release all his tax returns from all his years in public life.  Just as he should release his Illinois Senate papers that are conveniently "lost".

    8)This is a silly argument.  Obama has been one of the greatest users of the tool, voting "present" - why?  Even when he was the only one - what political reason other than not wanting to take a controversial stand?  How about the fact that he voted the "wrong way" by pushing the wrong buttons?  Or were those excuses to his constituents when he voted against their interests? Or is he too stupid to know better (my guess is that it's the first choice).

    9) WRONG:  The Canadian government stated that it was only the Obama camp who contacted them.  They never spoke to the Clinton camp.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=2 0601082&sid=adaqn.kTawmY&refer=c anada

    10) So Obama made a speech at an anti-war rally before he was running for Senate and actually (once again) had to take a culpable stand.  This seems to be a pattern. You don't like HRC's vote-  fine.  Then why was it ok when Obama excused John Kerry for the same vote?  Or is it only ok when it benefits Obama?

    11) WRONG.  The Subcommittee on European Affairs is responsible for United States relations with the countries on the continent of Europe, except the states of Central Asia that are within the jurisdiction of the Subcommittee on Near Eastern and South and Central Asian Affairs. It also oversees U.S. involvement with the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, relations with the European Union, and the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe. Matters relating to Greenland and the northern polar region are also the responsibility of this subcommittee.

    Relations with NATO is part of this responsibility. Guess what NATO has responsibility in?  You guessed it - AFGHANISTAN

    http://www.nato.int/issues/afghanistan/i ndex.html

    "NATO is a key component of the international community's engagement in Afghanistan, assisting the Afghan authorities in providing security and stability, paving the way for reconstruction and effective governance."

    Google is your friend.


    by cmugirl90 on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 10:18:44 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Barack I-didn't-know Obama (2.00 / 3)

    2- Read your own link. The trust was in the process of becoming blind and Obama has already turned over the investments to his attorney. 3- Duh. Because of people like you who insist on using it as mud. 4- What Illinois Senate papers are you looking for since all the votes, etc. are in the public record. 8 - He's not the only one, and others have said that it's a rather unique quality of the Illinois Senate. He was a very effective state senator. 9 - WRONG. I'll trade you links. 10- Obama was supporting Kerry as the nominee, as I expect Hillary will support Obama soon. It's how it works. 11- Hillary has missed several Afghanistan votes as well and if you weren't trying to obscure the truth you might point out that hearings on Afghanistan are ongoing in Joe Biden's full foreign relations committee and so it would be inappropriate for Obama's subcommittee to take it up, but you're more interested in playing to the ignorant here and misleading than any dissemination of fact.
    Your old role is rapidly aging. Please get out of the new one if you can't lend a hand, for the times they are a changing.
    by Travis Stark on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 10:55:01 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Barack I-didn't-know Obama (2.00 / 2)

    8)This is a silly argument.  Obama has been one of the greatest users of the tool, voting "present" - why?  Even when he was the only one - what political reason other than not wanting to take a controversial stand?  How about the fact that he voted the "wrong way" by pushing the wrong buttons?  Or were those excuses to his constituents when he voted against their interests? Or is he too stupid to know better (my guess is that it's the first choice).

    on Obama's present votes:

    When Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., voted "present," rather than "yes" or "no" on a handful of controversial abortion votes in the Illinois state senate, he did so with the explicit support of the president and CEO of Illinois Planned Parenthood Council.

    "We at Planned Parenthood view those as leadership votes," Pam Sutherland, the president and CEO of the Illinois Planned Parenthood Council, told ABC News. "We worked with him specifically on his strategy. The Republicans were in control of the Illinois Senate at the time. They loved to hold votes on 'partial birth' and 'born alive'. They put these bills out all the time ... because they wanted to pigeonhole Democrats."

    Speaking to ABC News as Obama was preparing to join Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y., and the wife of Sen. John Edwards, D-N.C., in addressing Planned Parenthood's national conference in Washington, D.C., Sutherland said Obama approached her in the late 1990s and worked with her and others in crafting the strategy of voting "present." She remembers meeting with Obama outside of the Illinois Senate chambers on the Democratic side of the aisle. She and Obama finished their conversation in his office.

    "He came to me and said: 'My members are being attacked. We need to figure out a way to protect members and to protect women,' " said Sutherland in recounting her conversation with Obama. "A 'present' vote was hard to pigeonhole which is exactly what Obama wanted."

    In other words, Obama was in a safe district and could easily have voted no. He voted present to provide cover for OTHER legislators, to entice them to ALSO vote present, and make it hard for the religious right to turn the votes into a campaign issue.


    by mattw on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 11:16:50 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Barack I-didn't-know Obama (1.00 / 0)


    Re: #12, LOL, what?  "the fierce urgency of now"?  

    How about the Dems having had a strong frontrunner to begin with and an extremely great chance at recapturing the WH from the Pugs until Obama's hubris shot up his ass to make him believe that he could win the Presidency on his resumé?  Seriously, I want to know who put it in his head that it'd be a good idea to run on what he's got now instead of waiting four or eight years.

    At this point in the game because of Obama, we might just be securing ourselves with another four years of Pug BULLSHIT.  Thanks Obama!


    by BrandingIron17 on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 07:17:51 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    yeah... (none / 0)

    he needs to get in line. cause there is a line you know.


    -- be excellent to each other
    by kindthoughts on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 09:01:11 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Barack I-didn't-know Obama (2.00 / 2)

    Excellent job, MBolak!!! If I'm expected to buck up and vote for Obama if he's the nominee in November, then I want to know everything about him, warts and all. I know that there are those who would rather gloss all of this over and call Obama's candidacy some sort of "movement". Goody for them. I'd rather have facts.

    This is the most comprehensive vetting of Obama I've seen. Rec'd and hotlisted.

    In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. Thomas Jefferson
    by Bella on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 09:33:34 AM EST

    Re: Barack I-didn't-know Obama (2.00 / 1)

    Only if by "comprehensive" you mean, "most thorough necromancy performed on long-dead talking points". Why don't we post a huge diary that "vets" Hillary over Whitewater while we're at it?  I'm not sure what the diarist's motivation is, but repeating every accusation ever made against Obama, no matter how groundless, without the ample counterevidence included, is more propaganda than "vetting".


    by mattw on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 11:19:52 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Refuted (2.00 / 3)

    Seriously, how many refuted talking points can you pull out of the graveyard?

    I'm not going to waste the time going point by point, so let's just pick one near the top:

    According to the Sun-Times, Barack Obama, "allegedly decent guy and agent of change" in Washington, requested an earmark in 2006 for $1 million taxpayer dollars for the University of Chicago Hospitals, where is wife, Michelle Obama, was a vice president. Said hospital, by the way, gave Michelle Obama a huge raise (nearly $200,000, more than doubling her salary) in 2005 after Barack was elected to the United States Senate.

    At least you're not hiding your bias.

    This just in: Obama was a Seantor and part of his job is getting help funding health care from the federal government. Obama requested dozens of health care funding earmarks for Illinois, many of which were considerably larger than the one for Michelle's employer. Her hospital was one of many.

    Michelle was promoted to a VP at the hospital in May of 2005. She is a cum laude graduate of Princeton and received a JD from Harvard Law. She is eminently qualified for an executive position and could be making more elsewhere if she so desired.

    Your other talking points are similarly biased, slanted, and baseless.


    by mattw on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 11:11:13 AM EST

    Re: Refuted (none / 0)

    I love the comment that she could be making way more money elsewhere.  Because there are TONS of jobs out there that will pay you over the current $400,000 she's making now and still give you the freedom to travel and campaign for your husband!


    by Dave B on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:54:33 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Barack I-didn't-know Obama (2.00 / 1)

    Thanks for the post.
    Obama should be vetted.
    The democrats need to have the best candidate for the fall election.

    This primary has put a focus on the selection process of the democratic nominee like never before in history.

    There must be changes made after it is all over. The possibility of disenfranchising any 2 states, not to mention 2 big important swing states like Michigan and Florida, should never be allowed to come up again. It is an affront to democracy and our party, and whoever is responsible should be made to pay.

    Gaming the caucuses is also an affront to democracy. When a primary is held and the delegate allotment is not at all close to the will of the people, something is "rotten in Denmark," or should I say Washington and Texas.

    There is no doubt in my mind that Barack Obama will not be the next president of the United States. He is beginning to embody the image of the exact opposite of what most people would want in a president.


    by ncvoter34 on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 11:22:15 AM EST

    Re: Barack I-didn't-know Obama (none / 0)

    Congratulations, you smeared a Democrat.

    You know very well that every member of Congress, Hillary included, could have a similar smear piece written about them. There is plenty of fodder to go all around.


    www.thingsyoungerthanmccain.com
    by LandStander on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 12:20:56 PM EST

    Re: Barack I-didn't-know Obama (2.00 / 0)

    Where are the smears?
    The diary appears factual to me.

    Hillary/Obama08
    by annefrank on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 02:44:14 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Barack I-didn't-know Obama (none / 0)


    --1jphusseinb-- she's not a monster, as far as I know--diplomat Sinbad, making the world safe--all bluster, no cattle--
    by 1jpb on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 12:33:44 PM EST

    Oops... the diarist thinks you can't think (1.80 / 5)

    1.  Is the diarist hoping that nobody looks at the ten videos?   Your own link shows that the incendiary clips weren't representative.  And, your link shows that some wingnuts think the guilt by association has gone too far.
    BHO has strongly condemned the incendiary YouTube clips.  He wasn't in church when the incendiary YouTube clips took place.  In twenty years he hasn't known Wright to use racist language against whites or others.  He has heard Wright make controversial comments, although not the incendiary comments we've seen on YouTube.  He didn't throw his granny and all white people under the bus.
    Again people should look at the diarist's  own link:
    http://timesonline.typepad.com/uselectio ns/2008/03/ten-must-see-je.html
    And this:
    http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/3/23/0433 4/5836#10

    But, OOPS... this diary is manipulative.
    2. From the diarist's own Sun-Times link:
    THE NEW YORK TIMES:
    "There is no evidence that any of [obama's] actions ended up benefiting either company during the roughly eight months that he owned the stocks...
    [OBAMA] SOLD THEM AT A NET LOSS OF $13,000."
    In 2005, Barack Obama entered into a trust agreement -- the terms of which did not permit his stockbroker to solicit advice from Obama or consult him on the trades that were being made - to manage his stock portfolio. As the New York Times reports today, Obama owned stock in two companies which he did nothing to help - an investment that lost him $13,000. At the end of a thorough examination of Senator Obama's portfolio, it's apparent that his dealings were completely above board and his decisions were proactively made in the interest of avoiding the potential for conflict.
    THE FACTS
    Obama Set Up a Trust That Would Independently Manage His Funds. In February of 2005, Obama began the process of creating a trust - the terms of which do not permit the broker to solicit advice from Obama or consult him on the trades that are being made - in an attempt to manage his financial portfolio without a conflict of interest. The intent was that this was a portfolio that would grow over time. [Conversation with UBS Representative, 2/26/07; Obama Trust Agreement, 5/31/2005]
    UBS Broker Chose Stocks For Obama; Obama Was Not Consulted. A UBS broker chose the stocks for Obama to invest in, and as per the trust agreement, Obama was not consulted. On Obama's behalf, the broker purchased $1,001 to $15,000 of Avi BioPharma on 2/22/05 and $50,001 to $100,000 of SkyTerra on 2/10/05. [Conversation with UBS Representative, 2/26/07; Obama Financial Disclosure Form 2006]
    Obama Closed Trust Because He Realized It Was Not Truly Blind. In late 2005, after receiving an informational communication from his broker about his investments, Obama realized that his financial arrangements did not significantly protect him against even the perception of a conflict of interest. He contacted his lawyer and steps were taken to sell his stocks and close out the trust. Obama's stock holdings were liquidated by November 1, 2005, and documents to close the trust were filed on December 15, 2005. [Conversation with UBS Representative, 2/26/07; Trust Distribution and Termination Document, 12/15/05]
    Obama Made Less Than $2,500 On AVI BioPharma; Sold Stock As It Finally Began To Trend Upward. UBS purchased AVI BioPharma on Obama's behalf when it was $2.57 a share in February of 2005, and sold it in October of 2005 at $3.30 a share, for a profit of less than $2,500. The stock price wavered throughout the summer, took a dip to $2.15 in August, and only started to recover at the end of September. [UBS Records Provided 2/26/2007; Obama Financial Disclosure Form 2006; Yahoo Finance Historical Stock Prices, Accessed 3/6/07]
    Obama Lost $15,000 On SkyTerra. UBS purchased SkyTerra on Obama's behalf when it was $36.35 a share in February of 2005, and sold it in November of 2005 at $30.49 a share, for a loss of approximately $15,000. [UBS Records Provided 2/26/2007; Obama Financial Disclosure Form 2006; Yahoo Finance Historical Stock Prices, Accessed 3/6/07]
    NO EVIDENCE THAT OBAMA TOOK ANY OFFICIAL ACTION TO HELP COMPANIES
    AVI BIOPHARMA
    Obama's Office Took No Action On Behalf of Avi BioPharma. Obama's Senate office did not have any interaction with or take any action on behalf of Avi BioPharma. Company executives have had no interactions with Obama, company officials said they never talked to Obama about his work on avian flu, and they were not aware of his buying and selling in AVI shares. [www.thestreet.com, 3/5/07; New York Times, 3/7/07]
    Obama's Senate Bill Addressed Preparedness And Early Warning Systems For Avian Flu in Asia, Did Not Fund New Drug Development. Obama's bill was focused on developing early warning systems for avian flu and encouraged NIH to expand research on influenza but did not fund authorize new drug development. [S. 969, 109th Congress]
    Legislation Proposed By Obama and Others Had No Positive Impact on Avi BioPharma Stock. Obama and eight cosponsors introduced his avian flu bill (S. 969) on April 28th, 2005. On the day the bill was introduced, the price actually dropped slightly ($2.71 a share to $2.68 a share). The stock price also dropped during the week the bill was introduced; on April 26th, the stock opened at $2.80 a share, and the price dropped over the next six days, closing at $2.49 on May 4th, 2005. [Yahoo Finance Historical Stock Prices, Accessed 3/6/07]
    Bipartisan Senate Amendment Cosponsored By Obama Did Not Earmark Funds for Particular Companies. The bipartisan Harkin amendment, which Obama cosponsored, provided $3.8 billion related to the flu and included funding for new drug development. However, it did not direct funds to individual companies. [SA 2283, 109th Congress; introduced 10/26/05]
    Amendment Passed By Full Senate Had No Positive Impact on Avi BioPharma Stock. Obama was one of 15 cosponsors on a Harkin amendment that included funding for drugs designed to combat the avian flu. The amendment was introduced on October 26th, 2005 and passed the next day. On the day the amendment passed, the price actually dropped 21 cents ($3.63 a share to $3.42 a share). The stock price dropped from $3.94 from the day the bill was introduced to $3.56 on October 31, 2005, a drop of 38 cents. [Yahoo Finance Historical Stock Prices, Accessed 3/6/07]
    Avi BioPharma Did Not Receive Contract For Stockpiling Drugs Or Any Federal Money For Its Avian Flu Research. "AVI spokeswoman Jenny Moede says the company, based in Portland, Ore., has collaborated with various agencies of the federal government to test its technology on animals. It has not yet been used on humans, and the government has yet to stockpile any of its drugs." The company confirmed to the New York Times that "it still has not received any federal money for its avian flu research." [www.thestreet.com, 3/5/07]
    Avi BioPharma Did Not Tout Senate Action Connected To Obama In Press Releases Or Conference Calls. A review of Avi BioPharma's press releases from 2005 shows that they did not tout any Senate actions connected to Obama in either press releases or conference calls.
    Money Avi BioPharma Received Was Unconnected to Obama Or Avian Flu. In October 2005, AVI BioPharma preliminarily announced DoD funding for research on four viruses. That funding was unconnected to Obama and was not related to research on avian flu. The press release from the company stated, "AVI BioPharma, Inc...announced that the U.S. Senate Committee on Appropriations has approved $22 million for AVI's research and development programs as part of the FY2006 defense spending bill...the spending bill would direct $22 million to AVI for the continued development of technology to test for and find therapeutic agents for Ebola ($6 million) and Marburg ($6 million) viruses, and anthrax and ricin toxins ($4 million). In addition, the allocation includes new funding for an AVI project to test for and find therapeutic agents for dengue virus ($6 million)." AVI BioPharma eventually received $11 million in the DOD Appropriations bill for 2006. [thestreet.com; Avi BioPharma Press Release, 10/3/05

    SKYTERRA
    Obama's Office Took No Action On Behalf Of SkyTerra. Obama's Senate office did not take any action on behalf of SkyTerra. A spokesman for Skyterra said the company's top officials had not been aware of Mr. Obama's investment. [New York Times, 3/7/07]
    CORRECTING THE RECORD: REZKO
    NYT: The Obamas House Sat On A Large Property Subdivided to Make It More Affordable
    FACT: The original seller divided the land into parcels for individual purchase prior to the Obamas interest in the house and bid on the house. [Obama Financial Records, June 2005]
    Oops... this diary is worthless.
    3. We've known for more that a month that BHO didn't get any deal on his house.
    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=n ewsarchive&sid=aR8NLIoQEDc4
    HRC has received donations of much more money from fundraisers with criminal problems.  Then, there is WJC with his selling pardons, unsavory business deals, and hidden library donors.  Don't forget HRC's brother picked up a couple hundred grand for selling WJC pardons.  It's a family thing with them.
    OOPS... this diarist isn't familiar with glass houses.
    4. "She's terrific," added Michael Riordan, who was president of the hospital in March 2005, when Michelle Obama was promoted to vice president for external affairs and had her annual salary increased from $121,910 to $316,962. http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/200 6/09/hospital_offici.html
    BHO released earmark requests that show he was looking for funding for big employers in his state, that's what politicians do, big deal.  He, unlike most, is open and honest about his requests.  The diarist didn't note that HRC refuses to release her earmark requests.
    The diarist must hope that nobody looks at the links provided.  From the Tribune link:
    Obama's chief political strategist, David Axelrod, said late Thursday that the senator did not know Crown sat on Maytag's board until the Tribune noted it last September in a story about the closing of the Maytag headquarters in Newton, Iowa

    Oops... dissembling is the diarist and HRC way.
    5. Again, the Hill piece you link to shows that BHO is keeping his distance from lobbyist money that distinguishes him from HRC.  The diarist must hope that people are to stupid to read the links.
    Oops... bluster, bluster, and bluster brought to you by the diarist and HRC.
    6. This diary isn't ready for prime time.  Again, from one of the provided links (Politico):
    UPDATE: An Obama aide said: "Obama is pleased that all of the records that the state considers to be public are currently available. We are not in possession of documents from his time in the state senate that are not available to the general public and any pertinent files were passed on to his successor in the State Senate, Kwame Raoul. This is as opposed to the millions of documents that should be publicly available from the Clinton White House that currently are not. In fact, tens of thousands of documents are currently being kept from public view by a representative of the Clintons and that is just a miniscule fraction of what is available to archivists right now."

    Also, Lynn Sweet of the Chicago Sun-Times reported Monday morning that Obama "Senior strategist David Axelrod said Sunday night, 'Files pertinent to ongoing casework were passed to Kwame Raoul, his successor.' "
    From day one in the Senate BHO was worked on and succeeded with difficult legislation.  When he started he had to build a coalition to pass ethics reform, which isn't always popular with politicians.  He has a record of hundreds of pieces of legislation in IL.
    http://thinkonthesethings.wordpress.com/ 2007/06/13/obamas-voting-record-in-the-i llinois-state-senate/
    Oops... this diary is garbage.
    7. This is an open system.  There was also and HRC, Hannity, and Fox site.
    OOPs... HRC and the diarist want to trick you into voting for HRC.
    8. Again, your own link (NYT) shows that BHO wasn't using present to hide.
    Lisa Madigan, the Illinois attorney general who was in the Illinois Senate with Mr. Obama from 1998 through 2002, said she and Mr. Obama voted present on the anti-abortion bills.
    "It's just plain wrong to imply that voting present reflected a lack of leadership," Ms. Madigan said. "In fact, it was the exact opposite."
    Of course BHO has missed votes in the US Senate, all Senators in the presidential campaign have done so.  Your link even shows that BHO was better than many Senators on the trail.  HRC missed relatively fewer votes, but time has shown that she should have worked on the campaign instead of feeling so inevitable.
    DEMOCRATS
    Joseph Binden [sic] (D-Del.)
    28.6%
    Votes missed: 99
    Christopher Dodd (D-Conn.)
    27.7%
    Votes missed: 96
    Barack Obama (D-Ill.)
    23.7 %
    Votes missed: 82
    Hillary Clinton (D-N.Y.)
    8.1%
    Votes missed: 28
    REPUBLICANS
    John McCain (R-Ariz.)
    49.4 %
    Votes missed: 171
    Sam Brownback (R-Kan.)
    36.1%

    OOPS... this diary is ready for the trash.
    9. The diarist tells you all a lie.  The truth is that CTV was wrong about who was talking to whom, who initiated the contact, where a conversation occurred, when a conversation occured , what was the mode of a conversation (i.e. call versus meeting), what was said.  Yes BHO denied that the CTV story was correct, and BHO was right--CTV was totally wrong.
    It was shown that Goolsbee was asked to meet with the Canadians in Chicago.  And, the memo (from the Canadians) of that meeting even states that Goolsbee told the Canadians that BHO wanted to change Nafta to improve environmental and safety standards, which is exactly BHO had said publicly.  Goolsbee, clearly states that the memo misstates his comments regarding politics in the States (that's a lot of states).  And, the Canadians agree with him.

    OOPS... the diarist is hoping you're a fool.
    10. The diarist uses half quotes out of context.  BHO has always said that the war was a mistake.  Before the war started he predicted that Saddam would be removed because the US military is unstoppable.  But, he predicated that the aftermath would be a mess, he was correct.

    http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-chec ker/2008/01/obama_and_iraq.html

    OOPS... the HRC strategy is half truths and fibs.
    11. Again, from the diarist's link:
    "But Clinton's claim, while technically true, is unfair, said Andrew J. Fischer, a spokesman for Republican Sen. Richard Lugar. Lugar now serves as a minority member of the Foreign Relations Committee, but he was the chair, from 2003 to 2006, when Republicans controlled the Senate. He is the ranking Republican on the committee.
    Fischer, who is a minority staff member of the Foreign Relations Committee, said something as major as NATO's role in Afghanistan would typically be held before the full Foreign Relations Committee, rather than Obama's European subcommittee. "
    Also,  this subcommittee had only met seven times in the nine years before BHO, so HRC is hyping this.

    OOPS... This diary and HRC are hype central.
    12.  Thankfully BHO is running.

    OOPS... HRC sitting on the sidelines in the Senate, not building support for difficult legislation, making political calculations as she waits to run.
    13. It's still on the table.  He has said he'd do it as long as there was a fair process where the Repubs (and they're outside supporters) are not given an unfair advantage.
    OOPS.... This diary is getting desparate.
    14. Clinton Claims Obama Engaged In Backroom Deals for A Nuclear Company--Even Though She Cosponsored the Bill
    RHETORIC: "Senator Obama has some questions to answer about his dealings with one of his largest contributors, Exelon, a big nuclear power company. Apparently he cut some deals behind close doors to protect them from full disclosure in the nuclear industry."

    REALITY: Clinton Co-Sponsored Obama Bill
    Hillary Clinton Cosponsored The Revised Bill After It Was Revised. In 2006, Hillary Clinton's name was added as a cosponsor to an amended version of S. 2348, Obama's Nuclear Release Notice Act. The bill had been introduced in March 2006 and passed the Environment and Public Works Committee unanimously on September 13, 2006. [S. 2348, Placed on Senate Legislative Calendar under General Orders. Calendar No. 637, 9/25/06]
    REALITY: Obama Bill Required Additional Disclosure From Nuclear Industry
    National Journal Wrote That "Obama's Bill would Require Any Leak" Exceeding NRC Accepted Levels "Be Reported To State And Local Authorities, And To The NRC Within 24 Hours." "'Obama's bill would require that any leak of radioactive materials exceeding the levels set by the Nuclear Regulatory Commission and the EPA be reported to state and local authorities, and to the NRC within 24 hours. It also would require the NRC to devise reporting requirements for such accidents within two years. Currently, private nuclear companies are not required to notify officials of any leak that is not considered a public health or safety emergency under criteria set by the NRC and EPA. In a statement, Obama said the bill would ensure 'that concerned parents and citizens won't have to rely on the federal government or an image-conscious corporation to get information.'" [National Journal's CongressDaily, 9/25/06]
    Revised Bill Stated, "The Commission Shall Promulgate Regulations That Require Civilian Nuclear Power Facilities...To Provide Notice Of Any Release," And Made Clear That Failure To Notify NRC Was Grounds For License Revocation. The revised version of S. 2348 read, "Not later than 2 years after the date of enactment of the Nuclear Release Notice Act of 2006, the Commission shall promulgate regulations that require civilian nuclear power facilities licensed under this section or section 104 (b) to provide notice of any release to the environment of quantities of fission products or other radioactive substances." The EPW Committee's report on the revised bill further clarified, "S. 2348 directs the Commission to promulgate regulations, within 2 years of the date of enactment, requiring nuclear plant licensees to notify the governments of the State and county in which a civilian nuclear power facility is located in the event of any release to the environment of quantities of fission products or other radioactive substances. This bill also directs NRC to consider a number of factors in developing the regulations." [S. 2348, Placed on Senate Legislative Calendar under General Orders. Calendar No. 637, 9/25/06; EPW Committee Report on S. 2348, 9/25/06]
    Original Bill Required Plants to "Immediately Notify" Commission, State And County. The original version of S. 2348, introduced on March 1, 2006, required plants to "immediately notify" when unplanned releases occurred. "`(A) IN GENERAL- Each license issued for a utilization facility under this section or section 104 b. shall require as a condition of the license that in case of an unplanned release described in subparagraph (B), the licensee shall immediately notify the Commission, and the State and county in which the facility is located, of the release. `(B) UNPLANNED RELEASES- Subparagraph (A) applies to any unplanned release of quantities of fission products or other radioactive substances--`(i) in excess of allowable limits for normal operation established by the Commission or other applicable Federal laws or standards; and `(ii) within allowable limits for normal operation established by the Commission or other applicable Federal laws or standards but that occurs more than twice within a 2-year period originating from the same source, process, or equipment at a facility.'" [S. 2348, Introduced 3/1/06, 109th Congress]
    Revised Bill Stated, "The Commission Shall Promulgate Regulations That Require Civilian Nuclear Power Facilities...To Provide Notice Of Any Release," And Made Clear That Failure To Notify NRC Was Grounds For License Revocation. The revised version of S. 2348 read, "Not later than 2 years after the date of enactment of the Nuclear Release Notice Act of 2006, the Commission shall promulgate regulations that require civilian nuclear power facilities licensed under this section or section 104 (b) to provide notice of any release to the environment of quantities of fission products or other radioactive substances." The EPW Committee's report on the revised bill further clarified, "S. 2348 directs the Commission to promulgate regulations, within 2 years of the date of enactment, requiring nuclear plant licensees to notify the governments of the State and county in which a civilian nuclear power facility is located in the event of any release to the environment of quantities of fission products or other radioactive substances. This bill also directs NRC to consider a number of factors in developing the regulations." [S. 2348, Placed on Senate Legislative Calendar under General Orders. Calendar No. 637, 9/25/06; EPW Committee Report on S. 2348, 9/25/06]

    REALITY: Nuclear Industry Did Not Support Obama Bill -- Believed Congressional Action Was Unnecessary
    CQ: Committee Approval Of Revised Obama Bill "Came Despite Industry Assertions That Companies Nationwide Already Are Employing New Measures To Compel An Increase In Reporting, And That Congressional Action Is Unnecessary. "A bill approved Wednesday by the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee would increase the reporting of radioactive leaks to state and local officials by operators of nuclear power plants. The committee action came despite industry assertions that companies nationwide already are employing new measures to compel an increase in reporting, and that congressional action is unnecessary. The committee approved by voice vote a revised version of the bill (S 2348) that was written by Illinois Democrats Barack Obama and Richard J. Durbin. The changes include new language that would give the Nuclear Regulatory Commission two years to issue regulations governing the reporting of radioactive leaks. The bill drew support from Chairman James M. Inhofe, R-Okla...Obama rejected industry arguments that no new regulation is needed. 'That's what industry always says; they never think that any regulation is appropriate,' Obama said. 'But this is about as modest a regulatory scheme as is possible. We simply want surrounding communities to be notified when these kinds of things happen.'" [CQ Today, 9/13/06]
    NEI Spokeswoman: "We Do Not Believe A Federal Law On This Issue Is Necessary" Because Current Regulations Suffice. "NEI spokeswoman Melanie Lyons said in a September 14 e-mail that industry does not disagree with the intent of the Obama bill. 'In fact, the industry's communication protocol already meets what we understand would be required by the legislation,' she said. However, 'we do not believe that a federal law on this issue is necessary,' because all nuclear plant releases are 'well below' NRC radiation safety limits and current regulations 'already include requirements for prompt reporting of significant releases' and annual reporting of all radioactive releases, Lyons said. Also, the industry initiative requires 'prompt notification of state and local officials and the NRC,' she said." [Platts' Inside NRC, 9/18/06]
    NEI Considered The Revised Version A "Better Bill" But Still Did Not Believe It Was "Necessary." "Jerry Slominski, senior director of legislative affairs for the Nuclear Energy Institute, said he is more accepting of the legislation that passed out of committee, which gives the NRC more flexibility in writing its reporting rules than the original bill. While Slominski said 'we do consider this a better bill,' he added, 'We don't believe this regulation is necessary. The NRC has all the legislation it needs to protect public health and safety.'" [National Journal's Congress Daily, 9/25/06]
    OOPS.... the diarist must think myDD readers are dumb.
    15. In context: BHO has said that single payer would be best, but it's not an option in our existing system.
    OOPS... this diary is silly.
    16.   Everyone knows that BHO doesn't take money from federal lobbyists, but HRC does.  How is that an effective argument in favor of HRC?
    The diarist left out complete quotes:
    "Sen. Obama helped his constituents obtain foreign products necessary for their business at an affordable rate," said Ben LaBolt, noting that Obama made sure all the products "met strong environmental standards" before pushing to make it cheaper to import them.
    With a dozen tariff suspension bills to his name, Obama stands out as the most prolific of any Democratic presidential hopeful on the topic. Sen. Hillary Clinton, N.Y., has introduced none, although she has co-sponsored 19 that were introduced by Sen. Charles Schumer, D-N.Y. Seven were to benefit the Honeywell Corporation, whose lobbyist has contributed $6,500 to Clinton since 2005. Sen. Joseph Biden, Del., has introduced none.

    OOPS... the diarist and HRC are grasping at straws?


    --1jphusseinb-- she's not a monster, as far as I know--diplomat Sinbad, making the world safe--all bluster, no cattle--
    by 1jpb on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 12:36:07 PM EST

    Re: Oops... the diarist thinks you can't think (2.00 / 2)

    Hmmm, the Obama campaign and Obamamaniacs are good at misdirection, deception, and obfuscation. We're just beginning to understand that.  Clinton's history is well known.  Me thinks you dost protest too much ....


    by PracticalMagic on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 01:43:16 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Oops... the diarist thinks you can't think (2.00 / 1)

    Yea, I protest too much, you would prefer to let this manipulative and ridiculous diary stand without identifying it's complete lack of credibility.

    Sorry to burst your bubble.


    --1jphusseinb-- she's not a monster, as far as I know--diplomat Sinbad, making the world safe--all bluster, no cattle--
    by 1jpb on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 01:56:40 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Oops... the diarist thinks you can't think (2.00 / 1)

    **It seems we're learning more every day about obfuscation.  I think it's clear that Hillary is now unelectable.  She's become a laughing stock.  I can see those oppo ads now.  Clinton proclaiming the barrage (of kisses!), and McCain laying in his prison cot.  (Although, if you ask me, neither of them does so well on foreign policy.)


    If the choice is between hope and fear, always choose hope. BC
    by greylox on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 02:36:04 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Oops... the diarist thinks you can't think (none / 0)

    and you think the normal typical white person will elect Obama?

    He is so unelectable.  He can't carry the blue states.  He can't carry the red states.  How is he going to win GE?


    by JoeySky18 on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 04:10:48 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Oops... the diarist thinks you can't think (2.00 / 1)

    This anti-BHO stuff is getting old.

    BHO doesnt' hate America.  He didn't throw granny and all white people under the bus.

    Even wingnuts like McCain, Wallace, Huckabee, and Kemp think this guilt by association stuff is too much.


    --1jphusseinb-- she's not a monster, as far as I know--diplomat Sinbad, making the world safe--all bluster, no cattle--
    by 1jpb on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 05:18:39 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Oops... the diarist thinks you can't think (none / 0)

    LOL   I read your comment as,

    " Methinks you posteth too much."


    by Cam5New Mexico on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 02:36:49 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Oops... the diarist thinks you can't think (2.00 / 1)

    Is any response to attacks on Obama considered misdirection, deception, and obfuscation? Seriously, just making an allegation isn't enough--and shouldn't be enough--to convince most people.

    So, when someone replies to attacks with substantive responses, instead of claiming that this is misdirecting, you could try responding to those attacks.

    But, hey, I don't mind ad hominem attacks. Why bother actually engaging in debate when you can just dismiss everything your opponent says before you have to deal with the content of it?


    "Don't let it end this way; tell them I said something." -the last words of Pancho Villa
    by shef on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 05:44:04 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Oops... the diarist thinks you can't think (none / 0)

    Not to mention that it was not Rev. Wright who is being investigated by the IRS, it's the national UCC denomination, for having Obama speak at their national convention in July of 2007.


    by dmc2 on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 01:45:42 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Your Defense On #12 Is a Little Thin (none / 0)

    In fact, it's nothing more than a smartass comeback.

    Let me help you.  

    Tim Russert: "Will you serve your six-year term as United States senator from Illinois?"
    Barack Obama, "Absolutely."

    Hillary Clinton made exactly the same promise to the voters of New York.

    The difference between Clinton and Obama is that she kept her promise.


    by creeper1014 on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 12:15:39 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Oops... the diarist thinks you can't think (none / 0)

    HRC missed relatively fewer votes, but time has shown that she should have worked on the campaign instead of feeling so inevitable.

    DEMOCRATS
    Joseph Binden [sic] (D-Del.)
    28.6%
    Votes missed: 99
    Christopher Dodd (D-Conn.)
    27.7%
    Votes missed: 96
    Barack Obama (D-Ill.)
    23.7 %
    Votes missed: 82
    Hillary Clinton (D-N.Y.)
    8.1%

    LOL, she should've campaigned more instead of doing the job she was elected to do.  WOW.  What idiocy.


    by BrandingIron17 on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 01:45:34 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Oops... the diarist thinks you can't think (none / 0)

    It isn't idiocy to campaign for the presidency if you want to be the president.

    It is could be argued that it is unwise (if not idiotic) to not campaign for the presidency if you want to become the president.

    Your logic is deeply flawed.

    By the way, HRC is now at 26.8% missed.  BHO is at 37.4%, and McCain is at 56.4%

    I used the old numbers above because that was the link the diarist used.  Here is a newer link:
    http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congr ess/110/senate/members/


    --1jphusseinb-- she's not a monster, as far as I know--diplomat Sinbad, making the world safe--all bluster, no cattle--
    by 1jpb on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 12:25:50 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Oops... the diarist thinks you can't think (none / 0)

    Do you really think anyone will read all that? Especially given it's misplaced sarcasm.


    by shellius on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 12:48:46 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Oops... the diarist thinks you can't think (none / 0)

    People shouldn't ask 16 questions unless they want 16 answers.

    Do you see the inherent flaw in your question?  It is impossible to avoid something based on that thing's content unless you read the content, at which point it is too late to avoid the thing in question.  If you avoid something based on your psychic ability to presume content, that makes you silly.

    Your unexplained accusation of misplaced sarcasm is not a particularly compelling argument.  Perhaps you missed the sarcastic tone of the diarist.


    --1jphusseinb-- she's not a monster, as far as I know--diplomat Sinbad, making the world safe--all bluster, no cattle--
    by 1jpb on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 02:27:12 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    It's funny... (none / 0)

    Your post reminds me, more than anything, of the absurd smears against the Clintons from the 90s that tried to somehow cast suspicion on them for every death that occurred in the past 40 years. Congratulations, you have become what you hate.


    by rebop on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 12:36:29 PM EST

    Re: Barack I-didn't-know Obama (2.00 / 0)

    mbolack - great comprehensive diary!
    Thanks so much!

    Bookmarked and forwarded.


    Hillary/Obama08
    by annefrank on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 02:24:09 PM EST

    Re: Barack I-didn't-know Obama (none / 0)

    There is so much about Obama that reminds me of our current President, it's not funny. I especially like the way Obama often means the opposite of what he says, just like Georgie and company.
    by zenful6219 on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 02:25:33 PM EST

    Re: Barack I-didn't-know Obama (none / 0)

    There is so much about Obama that reminds me of our current President, it's not funny. I especially like the way Obama often means the opposite of what he says, just like Georgie and company.

    Are you fucking serious?


    by Hesiod Theogeny on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 09:29:31 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Barack I-didn't-know Obama (2.00 / 1)

    Yes s/he is serious like the how both believe in the doctrine of don't count the votes unless they are for me.  A 48 state strategy is un-american and a loser for the Dems.

    What's Barack afraid of when he blocks re-votes?  Of course, he knows he'll lose and oh, that can't happen.  Even the DNC said that the MI plan would meet their rules and Obama stated he would follow the DNC.  Yep, Bush Jr.

    btw, apparently, Obama isn't just related to Cheney, he also is related to George W Bush as well. Quite a family tree the "One" has.


    by anya109 on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 01:43:38 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Barack I-didn't-know Obama (none / 0)

    BHO is in favor of people voting.  He isn't in favor of an unfair pro-HRC solution.

    FL and MI broke Humpty Dumpty.  The DNC (including Ickes) had a part, but they needed to enforce the rules or else the states' scheduling would be ten times worse.  Everyone, including HRC, knew these primary votes wouldn't count.

    http://factcheck.barackobama.com/factche ck/2008/02/22/reality_check_on_clintons_ clai.php

    HRC said the votes wouldn't count, then she was for seating as is, then she was against revotes to USA Today, then fifteen minutes later she was for revotes.  She's been all over the map.


    --1jphusseinb-- she's not a monster, as far as I know--diplomat Sinbad, making the world safe--all bluster, no cattle--
    by 1jpb on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 12:33:05 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Barack I-didn't-know Obama (none / 0)

    I have often compared Obama to George W.  They are both too inexperienced to run for office, pre-chosen by the powers that be to be big stars in their party (remember 2004 -- where did Obama come from and why did he speak at the Dem convention that year?  People in Illinois didn't even know who he was.  He was CHOSEN by the party to be there. He was being grooomed to run for prez, just like Bush was groomed to run for prez.)  

    Both Obama and George W. ran their campaigns on their personality because their experience was so thin, both men had ruthless advisors and surrogates who did tons of nasty dirty work for them, and then they could laugh it off and stay "above the fray". -- their tactics and level of expertise are very similar.  Even their foreign policy is similar.  Obama admitted this in 2004 when he said he was where Bush was on Iraq. And Obama will probably end up unfairly splitting the votes in Florida -- much as Bush stole Florida in 2000.  They're not that different in these areas.  Of course they differ in others, but not in tactics and some philosophies. Read Obama's latest book -- he's a real true Believer in fighting those al Qaeda in Iraq/insurgents/Sadrists/ Rejectionists/Baathists/ -- whatever they are. That's why he's going to keep troops in Iraq forever to fight the terrorists that we create every day by being there.  
    Not Hillary, she knows where the real al Qaeda is, and it's not in Iraq. Obama doesn't seem to know the BASICS -- just like G.W. Bush.
    The similarities are positively eerie!


    by shellius on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 12:55:47 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Barack I-didn't-know Obama (none / 0)

    BHO was a community organizer, president of Harvard Law Review, a civil rights attorney, and a constitutional law teacher for ten years.

    He has a longer and more successful legislative record than HRC.

    Their current campaigns are the biggest executive challenges that BHO and HRC (and McCain) have ever undertaken, clearly BHO has done a better job.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/10/us/pol itics/10clinton.html?_r=1&hp&ore f=login

    Don't forget, for her reelection HRC spent $41 million to beat a weak competitor who spent less than $6 million in a blue state.

    BHO has written two books without ghost writers (unlike HRC and McCain.)  BHO has been driven by the same philosophy ever since he started in politics.  In a 1995 profile in The Chicago Reader, he said, "What if a politician were to see his job as an organizer, as part teacher and part advocate, one who does not sell voters short but who educates them about the real choices before them?"


    --1jphusseinb-- she's not a monster, as far as I know--diplomat Sinbad, making the world safe--all bluster, no cattle--
    by 1jpb on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 02:36:43 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Barack I-didn't-know Obama (2.00 / 1)

    One little error -- Obama opposed Kerry's June 2006 redeployment bill.
    But 6 months later - Obama sponsored a redeployment bill a month before he entered the prez race so that he could tell Obama Girls he supported redeployment.

    >>>In June, 2007, Obama voted no to Senator John F. Kerry's proposal to remove most combat troops from Iraq by July 2007, warning that an "arbitrary deadline" could "compound" the Bush administration's mistake. He voted instead for a Republican-sponsored resolution that stated the Senate would not cut off funding for troops in Iraq.


    Hillary/Obama08
    by annefrank on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 02:42:43 PM EST

    Re: Barack I-didn't-know Obama (none / 0)

    One little error -- Obama opposed Kerry's June 2006 redeployment bill.
    But 6 months later - Obama sponsored a redeployment bill a month before he entered the prez race so that he could tell Obama Girls he supported redeployment.

    >>>In June, 2007, Obama voted no to Senator John F. Kerry's proposal to remove most combat troops from Iraq by July 2007, warning that an "arbitrary deadline" could "compound" the Bush administration's mistake. He voted instead for a Republican-sponsored resolution that stated the Senate would not cut off funding for troops in Iraq.


    Hillary/Obama08
    by annefrank on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 02:42:58 PM EST

    Re: Barack I-didn't-know Obama (2.00 / 1)

    Both sides (Clinton and Obama) have absolutely lost it.  We trash each of our candidates.  Comparing them the current President?  Are you effing, kidding me?  Comparing Bill Clinton to Joe McCarthy?  Seriously?

    Remember this period of time in the campaign, so when we wake up on that Wednesday morning in November, we can say, "So that's why McCain is President."


    by chewie5656 on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 03:31:12 PM EST

    Re: Barack I-didn't-know Obama (none / 0)

    Your first point is so absolutly pandering to "white fear" that I have to honestly ask you what is in it for you?  I have been a progressive my whole life and I can honestly say that I have nothing in common with someone like you ideologically.  I am not judging you, if you want to call yourself a "liberal" then I an certainly not a liberal.  I only know what I am not, and I am not like you.


    by HGM MA on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 05:41:52 PM EST

    Re: Barack I-didn't-know Obama (2.00 / 2)

    This diary is full of half-truths and innuendo and information that has long been discredited. Just one example -- the Black Panthers on the website -- comes straight from Fox News and has already been much discussed -- like many blogs anyone could register there and post under any name.

    There are many reasons to support or not support either of our candidates but taking items out of context and repeating right wing talking points is just unacceptable. Let's not stoop to Karl Rove tactics.


    by chrisj on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 07:42:29 PM EST

    Re: Barack I-didn't-know Obama (none / 0)

    Yep - Karl Rove is everywhere.  As the times get increasingly desparate for this small group of Hillary extremists (an infinitesimal minoriry in a sea of otherwise good Dems that support Hillary), it seems that Karl Rove is popping up everywhere.

    Even today at TalkLeft, where Jeralyn has even gone Rove. http://www.talkleft.com/story/2008/3/27/ 212716/396

    What a pathetic group - and, I'll reiterate - a pathetic group that does not reflect the majority of good and decent Hillary supporters.


    by dannyinla on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 02:36:23 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    When did Rush LImbaugh jon MYDD? (1.00 / 2)

    Do you really want to get into Hillary's lesbian muslim lover who's family has tes to Al Qaeda?

    I'm not making that up! That is "out there" in wingnut land right now, and will be all over Hannity, and Limbaugh, and Fox News, and Drudge as soon as she's the nominee.

    Thank God Barack Obama has more class than Hillary.


    by Hesiod Theogeny on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 09:26:28 PM EST

    Re: When did Rush LImbaugh jon MYDD? (none / 0)

    What class did he have sitting in that Church listening to a totally deranged pastor talking total nonsense without confronting him at least one time?

    I don't care about Hillary. I am not here to carry her water; she has many supporters and they can do that for her and defend her. I was until last week a big Obama supporter, but for the life of me, i cannot understand why he did not confront his pastor. If he knew that what he was saying was wrong, why didn't he say something? Or maybe, just maybe, he shares the same views with his pastor. I listened to his speech very carefully and i listened to the comparison that he made between  his pastor and his granny. Well, his granny is an old person who is telling racially charged jokes or comments privately. She did not have a pulpit and she was not a public figure like Rev Wright. The comparison does not make sense to me.

    One last thing, if he did not share those views with his pastor, Why didn't he say so? Well, maybe he didn't have the courage to confront his pastor, and that is even more damning to me than sharing the same view with his pastor. It tells me that he cannot say no to some people who are strong just like this Bush could not say no to Cheney and Rumsfeld, and that is dangerous.


    by Prisoners dilemma on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 01:10:03 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Give him a chance. (2.00 / 0)

    If you were a fan of Obama previously, you know that he is a smart man and a principled man, and that he must have a reason for doing what he's done.

    Research TUCC and Wright without the Fox bias.  He was a marine medical technician that treated LBJ.  He served his country and he marched with Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.  He has done extensive community service for the better part of four decades.  Listen to his uncut sermons: they're full of hope and love and praising God.

    Even Mike Huckabee defends Obama on Wright.  That's gotta count for something.


    You can't stop the signal.

    President "That One"

    by Dracomicron on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:24:13 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Give him a chance. (none / 0)

    Again, you folks if you don't agree with someone or a person said something that bothers you, you automatically accuse that person of racism or being right-wing nut or Hillary supporter. You cannot imagine that people cannot be right-winger or racist or pro-Hillary and do not agree with you.

    Well, i hate to burst your bobble, i am neither. Got it now.

    What reasons did Senator Obama have to sit and listen to someone damning America? I listen to his speech and the reasons he gave are so weak and so invalid that he came across as even lying or trying to hide something. Well, let me say this, he came across as not believable in section of his speech.  

    Listen, it is not because he was USMC that he is immune of idiocy; David Dike was USMC too and that it does not mean that people should listen to him. Or because he walked with MLK that we have to listen to him and treat him like a prophet. There are plenty of jerks who walked with MLK and did not learn a thing from his great wisdom. And why do i take what Huckabee said about Wright as a valid defense? I don't understand this reasoning, do you think that Huckabee vouching for Wright is a sufficient reason for me to fall in love with Wright?  The guy does not believe in  a simple biological truth, evolution, and you want me to listen to him when it comes to Wright.


    by Prisoners dilemma on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 01:03:32 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Barack I-didn't-know Obama (none / 0)


    Definitely recommended.  I knew about most of it except the stock purchases...I must read your sources now but I'm sure they're legit (as the rest of the sources from your items are the same ones I read before).  Excellent, excellent.
    by BrandingIron17 on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 12:45:51 AM EST

    Re: Barack I-didn't-know Obama (2.00 / 2)

    This is my first post ever on any blog

    Let me say something that has been severaly bothering me lately.

    I was a supporter of Senator Obama until about a week ago. His lost my vote and respect.

    See, i am veteran and honest to god it does not bother me that people protest the war; hell, i protested this one. It does not bother me that people burn the flag. It does not bother me that people insult the president, the administration and every single walking talking politician; i do it so much that my wife cannot stand it anymore. It does not bother me that my vet brothers throw their medals away. It does not bother me that a candidate (Senator Kerry) protested the war and testified before Congress and was a strong anti-war voice. Someone like that tells me that he has a strong character and he is not afraid to voice his opinion even if it is not popular.

    What bothers me; however, is someone that DAMN AMERICA. America is an idea and a dream and a set of ideals that millions have died for. To me, it means that that person, Rev. Wrong, is damning and spitting on the tombs of my brothers who died in Vietnam, who died in this war and who died in the previous wars. Soldiers die for each other and for the flag to keep the idea of makes America this exceptional country alive. If you take this exceptionalism way, there is no difference whatsoever between America and Uganda or Thailand or any other country out there. This is what damning American means to me. It means damning the IDEA that millions of brave men and women have died for. Damning those friends of mine who bleed and died in Vietnam so i can live and come back home and have a family.

    I cannot support someone who sit silently in a church and listen to his pastor talking total nonsense and insulting those who died for this country. To me, i am sorry to say this, to me that person cannot be a commender-in-chief. More importantly, i cannot respect someone who behaves as such. Why didn't he say something to his pastor? He either shares those views or did not have the guts to confront his pastor. Either explanation is a damning one.


    by Prisoners dilemma on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 12:59:59 AM EST

    That's not how it is (2.00 / 0)

    Wright is condeming the actions of the government.  At no point does he ever say that the country of America should be condemned, he's condemning the actions of evil men who control the government.

    Listen to his speeches in context, not as Sean Hannity (who has been exposed as having neo-nazi friends) would have you believe were the entirety of the truth.


    You can't stop the signal.

    President "That One"

    by Dracomicron on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:27:03 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: That's not how it is (none / 0)

    I don't watch FOXNEWS and i don't listen to Hannity. Don't you try to depict me like an idiot, your pedantic ways are repulsive. So, get down from your horse and put your feet on the ground and stop thinking of anyone who loves this country as a right-winger nut. This is why a whole bunch of Americans hate us, us liberals.

    I read and listened to his sermons. And again, nothing really bothered me in those sermons at all, except the damning of America by Rev. Wright. 1) he does not understand what America is about; 2) Senator Obama, who i like and used to supporter wholeheartedly, sat there and did not say a thing; 3) He either believed that or did not have the guts to say so; 4) If he believed that, he is not fit to be president, and if he did not have the guts to say something to his, he does not have the character to be a president.

    I am not a right-winger and so please don't cast me as one and i am not a damn Clinton supporter so don't lump me with them either. But the truth has to be said even if it is highly inconvenient. However, the Rev. Wright thing to me was not about race, i don't care about race, my wife is black and my kids are blacks as well. It was about my brothers who died in Vietnam so i could live today. It is about those who took a bullet maybe to cover my back so i could come home, marry, have 2 kids and live a prosperous life. I cannot forget them; i cannot forget that we fought for us each other and not for any political cause; i cannot forget that we fought for Old Glory and the idea of America is; and should not forget their sacrifice and NO one will make me.


    by Prisoners dilemma on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 12:50:15 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    I apologize (none / 0)

    There are a lot of Clinton supporters citing Hannity as credible on this subject both here and elsewhere.

    Regardless:

    1. What is America about?  Could it be that Wright's definition of what America is could be a little different from yours?  He wasn't damning the entirety of America, he was damning the government for what he believed was murder... which is, in fact, a Christian sentiment.  You kill someone, you are damned to hell unless you seek forgiveness.

    2. Senator Obama has been very clear that he was not in the pews during that sermon.  How could he do anything if he didn't hear it?  I've listened to a dozen sermons now, and frankly they are both rarely controvercial, and generally inspiring.

    3. He didn't believe it, and he said so when asked.  Nobody asked prior to last week.

    4. Obama believes that character is not who you call your friends, but what you, yourself believe, and what you, yourself work for.  "I could no more disown Reverand Wright than I could disown the black community."  Wright is certainly angry and flawed, but Obama is not going to pitch him to the curb.  Rather, he'll lead by example and try to bring his friend back to a better path.

    Nobody, not even Wright, who served his country with distinction as a Marine, is denegrating your service or the sacrifices you and your brothers have made.  Wright calls into question why people have to die for causes that usually only benefit a few people at the top.  One of the rights that DOES benefit everyone and is right to sacrifice for is the right to peaceful protest and free speech, without which we would be much worse off than we are now.  

    Once again, I apologize for offending you.


    You can't stop the signal.

    President "That One"

    by Dracomicron on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 01:20:43 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Perfection (2.00 / 1)

    does not exist in politics.

    It would not be difficult to find hypocrisy and misstatements in any human being's much less any politician's lifetime. Let's not forget that even Thomas Jefferson spoke of equality while owning slaves.

    I think over all Obama is a pretty darned good choice as far as politicians go, and we're very lucky to have him on our side of the aisle.  Although I disagree with her campaign tactics, I think that Senator Clinton is pretty darned smart as far as politicians go, and I'm glad we have her on our side of the aisle.


    by Renie on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 01:09:43 PM EST


    You are not logged in.

    In order to post a comment, you must be logged in. If you have a member account, please log in to comment.

    If not, you can make an account right here. It's quick and free.