MyDD :: To Hillary supporters an apology from an Obama voter

by annefrank on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 08:48:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: To Hillary supporters an apology (none / 0)

Hmmm, strange. To which of the stupid, bigoted and misogynist remarks of a politician are you referring ???

by hebi on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 09:53:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: To Hillary supporters an apology (none / 0)

Most of us aren't politicians and our "stupid, bigoted, misogynist" remarks aren't on video.

But what kind of politician would demand the poor donate to his campaign?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGxzqwRJU zM

by annefrank on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 08:48:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: To Hillary supporters an apology (none / 0)

Most of us aren't politicians and our "stupid, bigoted, misogynist" remarks aren't on video.

But what kind of politician would demand the poor donate to his campaign?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGxzqwRJU zM

by annefrank on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 08:49:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: To Hillary supporters an apology from an Obama (2.00 / 1)

Here, this will make you feel even worse...in regards the "fairy tale" that is Obama's "record on Iraq"

''But, I'm not privy to Senate intelligence reports,'' Mr. Obama said. ''What would I have done? I don't know. What I know is that from my vantage point the case was not mad

"So it's not clear to me what differences we've had since I've been in the Senate. I think what people might point to is our different assessments of the war in Iraq, although I'm always careful to say that I was not in the Senate, so perhaps the reason I thought it was such a bad idea was that I didn't have the benefit of U.S. intelligence. And, for those who did, it might have led to a different set of choices. So that might be something that sort of is obvious. But, again, we were in different circumstances at that time: I was running for the U.S. Senate, she had to take a vote, and casting votes is always a difficult test." [The New Yorker, 10/30/06]
"Not only was the idea of an invasion increasingly popular, but on the merits I didn't consider the case against war to be cut-and- dried." ["Audacity of Hope," 2006, p. 294]

But don't worry, we forgive you.

And it takes a big person to admit they were wrong. :)

by destardi on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 02:04:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: To Hillary supporters an apology from an Obama (2.00 / 1)

You should let Claire McCaskill know how you feel.

by LakersFan on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 03:28:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: To Hillary supporters an apology from an Obama (2.00 / 1)

thats a good idea. Im already voting for her primary challenger after she caved on the warantless wiretapping.
what s disappointment she has been.

by the Walrus on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 12:00:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

So, no problem with liars, huh? (none / 0)

I mean, her Bosnia tale is pretty far-fetched.

And, of course, the Clinton camp never said all those awful things they did.

This diary stinks of triteness.

by jaywillie on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 04:28:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So, no problem with liars, huh? (2.00 / 2)

Have a look at your own candidate lately?

It's time to get real. Barack is a politician, of the same make that we've grown so tired of. We've caught him in lie after lie this campaign.

I voted for him because I believed he was the real thing. But he isn't. We know that now.

So now let's talk about who is qualified and who will actually get this stuff done.

by bobbank on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 07:41:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

you should never (2.00 / 1)

apologize for your vote...even if you have remorse about it

I am not an Obama fan, btw :)

If you follow history with a long enough arc, things always get better, and the truth always prevails...Gandhi

by SevenStrings on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 11:15:01 PM EST

Re: you should never (2.00 / 3)

i disagree. i voted for the exact opposite of what i thought i was voting for. I should have vette4d him properly. it was my responsibility. thats all.

by the Walrus on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 11:16:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: you should never (2.00 / 3)

you made a mistake... nothing to be ashamed of!

The working assumption behind any successful democraic system is that people will make mistakes...that is why we have checks and balances.

Your right to make that mistake is one of the holiest compacts you have with your government.

It is nice that you are doing that vetting now...no need to apologize for the past !!

If you follow history with a long enough arc, things always get better, and the truth always prevails...Gandhi

by SevenStrings on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 11:24:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: you should never (2.00 / 1)

Not really, Walrus. It was the media's job to vet Obama. They didn't do it. You made a decision based on the information you had at the time as did others who, based on new information, would like to have their votes back. No apology is necessary but you can help make a difference now. Go to Hillary's website and sign up to make calls in Pa and NC. And give what you can.

by Tolstoy on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 03:53:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: you should never (none / 0)

Are you sure that you now have the complete picture?

BHO was a community activist, president of the Harvard Law Review, a civil rights attorney, and a constitutional law teacher for ten years. Since entering politics he's had the same philosophy. In a 1995 profile in The Chicago Reader, he said, "What if a politician were to see his job as an organizer, as part teacher and part advocate, one who does not sell voters short but who educates them about the real choices before them?"

BHO has more experience and success in elected office:

BHO was effective in the IL Senate from start to finish: tax cuts, health care, health clinics, ethics reform, and justice system reform where he started with no support, strong opposition from special interests, and a promised governor veto.

BHO in DC: arms control, ethics reform (Nancy Pelosi calls "one of the toughest ethics reform" bills in this history of the Congress.), accountability: requirement that government spending be easily accessible by citizens over the internet.

NYT:
The documents offer no support for her claims, made during the presidential campaign, that she helped to negotiate the Irish peace accords or facilitated the flow of refugees in the Balkans. Neither is there evidence in them to back up her claim that she helped pass the Family and Medical Leave Act, the first legislation Mr. Clinton signed as president. The legislation, sponsored by Senator Christopher J. Dodd, Democrat of Connecticut, sailed through Congress and landed on Mr. Clinton's desk 10 days after he was inaugurated. Indeed, on the day Mr. Clinton signed the bill into law, Feb. 5, 1993, there is no indication on that day's calendar that she attended.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/19/us/pol itics/19cnd-archives.html?_r=2&hp=&a mp;adxnnl=1&pagewanted=1&adxnnlx =1206332846-GUr2Qyp5QfuKHpxWFaKiYQ

And this:
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/ 2008/03/hillary-clint-1.html

And this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=It6JN7ALF 7Y&eurl=http://www.dailykos.com/stor yonly/2008/3/23/95418/5038/471/482606

The biggest management experience for BHO and HRC has been their campaigns, obviously BHO is demonstrated that he is better at managing a campaign.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/10/us/pol itics/10clinton.html?_r=2&hp&ore f=login&oref=login

Also, HRC's reelection spent $41 million to beat a weak competitor who spent less than $6million in a blue state.

Rezko is a non story. HRC has more fund raisers with legal trouble than BHO. BHO didn't get a deal on his house.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=n ewsarchive&sid=aR8NLIoQEDc4

--1jphusseinb-- she's not a monster, as far as I know--diplomat Sinbad, making the world safe--all bluster, no cattle--

by 1jpb on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 08:14:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: To Hillary supporters an apology from an Obama (none / 0)

How may I ask did you put "the country at risk"...?

Unless you bought into Rep. King's meme that Al Qaeda will be dancing in the streets if Obama becomes President....? Ummm... just so you know, Rep. King is a right-wing, fear-mongering nutcase.

Bigger question... how does this help your (now) chosen candidate?

"If you ever post anything on that website again, I will shove a motherboard so far up your a$$...!" C.J Cregg

by JenKinFLA on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 11:16:42 PM EST

Re: To Hillary supporters an apology from an Obama (2.00 / 1)

i mean i don't trust obama now as commander in chief.

and no im not buying into the aforementioned spin.

he's lied to em multiple times at this point.

"there is no white america. There is no black america"
do i have that right?

by the Walrus on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 11:18:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: To Hillary supporters an apology from an Obama (none / 0)

I would like to apologize to Obama for you're taking the bait that he is a racist because his pastor went over the top with rants. He had reason to be mad at black's treatment by whites. He just went too far. Obama didn't make those comments. Listen to his whole speech and reconsider. He is trying to bring us, black and white, together.

deLesseline

by deLesseline on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 11:31:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: To Hillary supporters an apology from an Obama (2.00 / 3)

Unfortunately, that's just not true. The hate speech of his personal mentor for 20+ years is ample evidence.

I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.

by KnowVox on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 12:15:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

All you people (none / 0)

Assisting in the swiftboating of Rev Wright.
I hope you're proud of yourself.

by Drewid on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 08:00:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: All you people (2.00 / 1)

Rev. Wright swiftboated himself with his hate speech.

I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.

by KnowVox on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 10:14:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: All you people (2.00 / 2)

amen brother.

Not to mention Obama did himself in with 20 years of supporting DIVISIVE talk.

Seriously, anyone who calls themselves a "uniter" should be aware that "you're judged by the company you keep."

You actually think the best way to address racial self-segregation is to point out a white person has never been called a n*gger?

OMG!

not very smart; obama will lose for the Dems what should have been a blowout victory in 2008.

by destardi on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 02:09:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: All you people (none / 0)

The YouTube clips are exceptionally incendiary clips, they aren't representative of 20 years. They don't even represent the sermons they were taken from. See longer clips if you want to know more:

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/3/23/0433 4/5836#10

BHO doesn't hate America, and he didn't throw his granny and all white people under the bus. He didn't see these especially despicable YouTube clips in person, but he has strongly denounced ever since he found out about them.

Even some wingnuts (including McCain) think that this guilt by association is going too far:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5vzwJXsz ww&eurl=http://andrewsullivan.theatl antic.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iqNKEK5x cs&eurl=http://andrewsullivan.theatl antic.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTFLOu8fj xU
http://www.politico.com/blogs/jonathanma rtin/0308/Driving_conservatives_crazy.ht ml

--1jphusseinb-- she's not a monster, as far as I know--diplomat Sinbad, making the world safe--all bluster, no cattle--

by 1jpb on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 07:56:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: All you people (none / 0)

His HATE speech was in reaction to the treatment his generation received from fellow WHITE americans. He has every right to say GODDAMN AMERICA. He served in the military. SO who knows how short his fuse is after probably receiving discimination after serving his country.

We have no problem with politicians demonizing islamic fundamentalists , so why shouldn't he rant about white americans who lived in the 50s and 60s and are still alive now? Are the brutalities in the south any less reprehensible than what Al Quaeda did on 9-11? At least those Al Quaeda guys were so caught up in their fanaticism , they were willing to die. Many of the white cowards who killed or injured black people and hid under a racist justice system.

Obama doesn't agree with Wright on some issues but he can understand what leads a man like that to rant and vent to such an extreme degree. The HIV conspiracy - of course, people like Obama can't buy into it. I personally think it's a silly rant. But I UNDERSTAND why he said it. People have said the same thing in the past about blacks who accused the government of infecting blacks with syphillis intentionally. Guess what, it turned out to be true.

by Pravin on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 03:59:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: All you people (2.00 / 1)

Do you "understand" Hilter, too?

Go ahead and slam "white Americans who lived in the 50s and 60s and are still alive now." Last I checked, they vote.

I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.

by KnowVox on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 04:04:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: All you people (none / 0)

Yes, they vote . Republicans vote too. SO why dont we just appeal to them too and just make it easy on all of us and coopt all their popular viewpoints?

by Pravin on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 06:28:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: To Hillary supporters an apology from an Obama (2.00 / 1)

Bullshit. Both he and his wife have injected race into the campaign at every opportunity while at the same time his campaign has skillfully used race baiting tactics for votes.

by Tolstoy on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 03:57:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: To Hillary supporters an apology from an Obama (2.00 / 1)

I believe you left out a part... There is not a white America and a black America, there is the United States of America... wow, cutting edge stuff there.

Beyond that, you are welcome to vote for whomever you wish or whatever reason... but a right wing talking point like "made the county less safe" should really not be used on a progressive site.

Incidentally, you could try citing the "numerous lies" with actual evidence to strengthen your argument.... but that's up to you. Around here, it seems to fly without citation of links, quotes, or other evidence.

"If you ever post anything on that website again, I will shove a motherboard so far up your a$$...!" C.J Cregg

by JenKinFLA on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 11:32:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Is this (none / 0)

A competence issue?

An electability issue?

A policy issue?

Or a personality issue??

by Edgar08 on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 11:24:07 PM EST

Re: Is this (2.00 / 1)

Yes.

In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. Thomas Jefferson

by Bella on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 12:09:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Wow...very explanatory (none / 0)

For some reason 13.5 million of your fellow citizens and a plurality of those that voted in your party's naminating contests did not seem to think so.

by nklein on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 06:52:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: To Hillary supporters an apology (2.00 / 1)

Please let us know how you were tricked. What was it that changed your mind? I can only believe you if you give some details. Sorry, but I have been tricked myself by pretend Hillary, Obama, supporters on the internet.

As a Hillary supporter, I would welcome your story. Thank you!

by Scotch on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 11:24:51 PM EST

kind of sum up reply here. (2.00 / 2)

about a week after the election i got into a bit of an argument with a Hillary supporter. That is i guess who im really addressing with this post.

she told me i was falling for a lot of empty rhetoric and i told her i had voted for change and moving forward(and alot of other empty rhetoric.)
if i ever see her again ill apologize. this is substitute apology therapy for me i guess.

id like to see the discussion in dem circles move beyond the "How Can you Criticize our all but Certified Nominee". that is the first step to saving this election.
so i found my dd. people were talking.

by the Walrus on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 11:33:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: kind of sum up reply here. (2.00 / 1)

But i guess what people are asking you is what was the turning point, and on what issue did you turn away from him. I would love to know. Thanks for your answer above, though.

by Scotch on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 11:39:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

No Need to Say Sorry! (2.00 / 6)

i hear comments like your daily. no need to apologize. this si a long primary-things change. the best thing you can do now is make calls for hillary on her website to pa. ive got most my family in mo and most voted obama. they are now with you on this as well!

by art3 on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 11:25:34 PM EST

Re: To Hillary supporters an apology from an Obama (2.00 / 7)

Walrus. Thank you for speaking your heart. It takes courage to admit you were wrong. You may get a lot of flak for this sort of thing in these blogs -- esp. from Obama's droids. May the force be w/ you!

by BostonIndependent on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 11:25:52 PM EST

Re: To Hillary supporters an apology from an Obama (2.00 / 2)

thank you.

by the Walrus on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 11:37:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama droids? (2.00 / 0)

Why the need for the gratuitous insult?

by Carl Nyberg on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 12:08:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama droids? (2.00 / 1)

I'm a Clinton supporter and I agree. Lets ease up on the insults, folks.

Your attempt to change the subject to "the issues" is irrelevant.

by itsthemedia on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 01:51:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You've been a busy bee. (1.25 / 4)

One day and look at all of your great work, including this:

He is compltely unelectable now, besides being a liar and a racist himself. I don't know where these obama diehard's loyalties lie.

Doesn't freerepublic miss you? (Or is it littlegreenfootballs?)

by Bob Johnson on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 11:27:22 PM EST

Re: You've been a busy bee. (2.00 / 2)

i stand behind that statement. 100%.
wanna talk about it?

by the Walrus on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 11:28:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

No. (none / 0)

It's ludicrous on its face.

So where do you usually post?

by Bob Johnson on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 11:30:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The Walrus (1.00 / 1)

Bob, don't feed the trolls

Walrus. If you really feel duped, then you seem rather naive and uninformed. Its too bad when people buy into Clinton's victim ploy. If you want a candidate who is perfect, please, feel free to name them

Coo Coo Ka-Choo

Wiz in Hussein Wis

by Wiz in Wis on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 11:35:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Walrus (2.00 / 3)

actually if you really listen, its "goo goo ga joob"

youre thinking of Mrs Robinson.

and i agree with you i was naive and uninformed.

by the Walrus on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 11:36:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Walrus (2.00 / 2)

gave you Mojo just for the Simon & Garfunkel correction.

;)

by el mito on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 11:38:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No. (2.00 / 1)

havent posted in a couple of years anywhere. havent felt the need. Bush was obviously not going to be impeached. what was the point in posting?

by the Walrus on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 11:35:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No. (2.00 / 1)

C'mon Bob on "the other " site there are a bunch of ex Hillary fans converted to Obama... it goes both ways and it is bound to happen.

by el mito on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 11:36:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Read this new poster's language. (2.00 / 1)

Take a look at his/her posts.

by Bob Johnson on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 11:39:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Read this new poster's language. (none / 0)

you don't like my lexicon? or mi espanglish?

Why do you get personal when I was trying to be fair with both of you.

by el mito on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 11:42:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Huh? (none / 0)

What are you talking about? I said read this diarist's day of work here.

What does that have to do with you?

by Bob Johnson on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 11:48:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Huh? (2.00 / 1)

heheh
perdón!!!

sometimes it is all about me :)

by el mito on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 12:00:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Huh? (none / 0)

It's always all about Bob.

by Tolstoy on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 04:02:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Read this new poster's language. (2.00 / 1)

what language. i called a Obama an unelctable candidate, a liar and a racist.

im pissed. i was tricked. and now we are going to lose 45 states if hes the nominee. my anger isnt hard to understand.

if you want me to elaborate on the 3 points above say so. you certainly havent refuted them. but my purpose is not to offend.

by the Walrus on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 11:42:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You'll be a big hit here. (none / 0)

You should also post all your work at NoQuarter, too.

by Bob Johnson on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 11:47:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You'll be a big hit here. (2.00 / 1)

ive been reading noquarter today, and taylor marsh.

you know any other good anti McCain blogs?

by the Walrus on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 11:49:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

"Anti-McCain blogs?" (2.00 / 2)

Now THAT'S funny!

by Bob Johnson on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 11:51:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Anti-McCain blogs?" (none / 0)

Pure gold.

by Drewid on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 08:04:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Read this new poster's language. (none / 0)

Okay.. hold on a moment....

You just called a sitting Democratic Senator a liar and a racist, but then say your purpose is not to offend? So yes, I would like you to elaborate, substantially on at least those two points, or you can do all three... why not.

Your purpose is to say whatever you want, offensive or not... and as long as you say it about Obama, I guess you have found the right place since you aren't likely to get called out about it.

"If you ever post anything on that website again, I will shove a motherboard so far up your a$$...!" C.J Cregg

by JenKinFLA on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 11:58:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Read this new poster's language. (2.00 / 1)

my purpose with this diary was not to offend. Bob dug up the unlectable racist liar from my first, admittedly angry post here. was responding.

by the Walrus on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 12:02:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Read this new poster's language. (2.00 / 0)

and you said you stand by it and you repeated it and I asked you to back it up with evidence...

And here we are.

I'm supporting the Democrat this Fall but these small minded, ad hominem attacks against a fellow Democrat, a sitting U.S. Senator, while the chorus of Hillary supporters chime in around in tacit agreement make it a struggle even for me to support her.

"If you ever post anything on that website again, I will shove a motherboard so far up your a$$...!" C.J Cregg

by JenKinFLA on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 12:13:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Read this new poster's language. (none / 0)

did you read my posts.i gave my reasons.

by the Walrus on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 12:15:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Read this new poster's language. (none / 0)

Post them here... the conversation is apparently still going on, as you still stand by the comments.

"If you ever post anything on that website again, I will shove a motherboard so far up your a$$...!" C.J Cregg

by JenKinFLA on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 12:23:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Wait, upthread you said you stand by your... (none / 0)

... statement that Obama is a racist "100%."

Now you're claiming you only wrote that in your first post here because you were angry. Yet, a quick look at your first day of posting here finds you repeating it in nearly every post you've made.

So was it done in anger, or do you stand by your statement 100%?

by Bob Johnson on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 12:14:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wait, upthread you said you stand by your... (none / 0)

im claiming no such thing. look at my posts, i call him a racist in probly half of em, because thats what he is. just like jeremiah wright and his grammy and the rest of us typical white people.
but this diary wasnt about that, when i started it.

by the Walrus on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 12:17:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You're not keeping your story straight. (1.50 / 4)

You should have rehearsed more before signing up. Or created a cheat sheet with your fake "bio" handy.

You've talked yourself into a circle.

by Bob Johnson on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 12:19:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Go play with your dog, Bob (none / 0)

you need some fresh air.

by catfish1 on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 05:22:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Ignore Bob. He is trying to bait you. (2.00 / 0)

by cjbardy on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 02:13:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ignore Bob. He is trying to bait you. (2.00 / 0)

How is questioning the reasons behind someone's statement "baiting" someone?

The Walrus has claimed that he/she was an Obama supporter, yet all we have seen in her/his comments and diaries is vitriol thrown at Obama. The Walrus does not have a long history on this blog (as far as I can tell). And when asked about the reasons for this sudden change of heart, he/she responds "Wright" and some conversation w/ a Hillary supporter about empty rhetoric. As an Obama supporter, I have seen this meme thrown our way and I have yet to see an Obama supporter to dramatically change allegiance as the diarist describes. It does not entirely sound credible to me (and apparently others, including Hillary supporters upthread).

Please forgive me if it is difficult to take the diarist at his/her word when there is no evidence of his/her past support for Obama. It is not unusual nor rare for an anonymous blogger to misrepresent himself/herself. And the vitriol that the Walrus uses does not engender trust among us.

by nklein on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 07:11:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Read this new poster's language. (none / 0)

I don't think his purpose was to offend. I think it was to tell the truth. Can't you handle the truth?

by cjbardy on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 02:12:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Read this new poster's language. (none / 0)

How is calling a person that millions believe passionately in a liar and a racist not meant to offend?

by nklein on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 07:12:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Read this new poster's language. (2.00 / 0)

I don't know. Why do Obama supporters call the Clintons liars and racist? Last I checked, millions admire and respect them too.

by Dave B on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 09:26:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Read this new poster's language. (none / 0)

I haven't called them liars or racists. I'm only responsible for what I do. Just as the person I'm responding to is responsible for what they say.

by nklein on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 10:28:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You've been a busy bee. (none / 0)

You probably should edit your diary to make it more complete. All it does is read as a random comment in an open thread.

by Pravin on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 04:02:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You've been a busy bee. (2.00 / 1)

You caught that too...?

I was kind of laughing when I read the comments earlier, but then fell out of my chair onto the floor laughing when I read the diary....

"If you ever post anything on that website again, I will shove a motherboard so far up your a$$...!" C.J Cregg

by JenKinFLA on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 11:37:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You've been a busy bee. (2.00 / 1)

Ummm...

Just wow really.

"If you ever post anything on that website again, I will shove a motherboard so far up your a$$...!" C.J Cregg

by JenKinFLA on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 12:00:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You've been a busy bee. (none / 0)

My, but that's a thoughtful thing to say.

I'm as strong as a bull moose, and you can use me to the limit. - Teddy Roosevelt

by fogiv on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 05:52:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You've been a busy bee. (2.00 / 1)

you're right a little bout that first post of mine there bob. i shouldn't be questioning peoples loyalty.
anger there. sorry.

by the Walrus on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 12:45:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Well... (none / 0)

Thanks for your vote!! I know you feel bad now but you've been whiplashed by the media. I guess you're one of those people in the daily tracking polls who swing it around every few days depending on the lastest media spin. If you like Hillary now you can help her perform a miracle and win.

Bitter voter for change.

by Hope08 on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 11:36:56 PM EST

Re: Well... (1.00 / 1)

Given the diarist has already voted, I don't see how he or she can help... except to continue to "entertain" us all with the comments and diaries... We were missing some vitriol and baseless accusations against Obama on this site... Whew, thank goodness that base is covered now.

"If you ever post anything on that website again, I will shove a motherboard so far up your a$$...!" C.J Cregg

by JenKinFLA on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 11:39:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Well... (2.00 / 1)

There are a lot of ways The Walrus can still help Clinton. I'm surprised you would say something like that actually, because I am sure you know all about phone banking, donations, etc. But maybe you were just trying to crush The Walrus' spirit, since you now perceive The Walrus as an enemy.

Your attempt to change the subject to "the issues" is irrelevant.

by itsthemedia on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 01:59:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Well... (none / 0)

I don't perceive any fellow Democrat as the enemy... and I don't volunteer in the primary season, but I work for the general election.

"If you ever post anything on that website again, I will shove a motherboard so far up your a$$...!" C.J Cregg

by JenKinFLA on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 09:52:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Who here agrees with the diarist... (none / 0)

... that Obama is a racist?

Anyone?

Any of you folks who recommended this diary?

by Bob Johnson on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 11:50:30 PM EST

Re: Who here agrees with the diarist... (2.00 / 3)

Typical White Person
is a racist statement.

is Typical Black Person a racist statement.

Obama made a gross generalization when describing his grandma, who he equated with his lunatic mentor.

that is racist.

by the Walrus on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 11:53:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Oh, I know you agree with yourself. (2.00 / 1)

I was asking others here if they agree with you that Obama is a racist.

by Bob Johnson on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 11:56:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh, I know you agree with yourself. (2.00 / 0)

whatever, you arent saying anything.just attacking me cause im new here and you dont like what i have to say.

by the Walrus on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 11:57:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

By the way... (none / 0)

How can you call NoQuarter an "anti-McCain blog?" Larry Johnson who runs the blog has said he will back McCain if Obama wins the Dem nomination.

I think you are fibbing.

by Bob Johnson on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 12:00:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: By the way... (none / 0)

well i didnt know that. just found them this afternoon.

by the Walrus on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 12:01:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

He's full of it Walrus (none / 0)

Larry posts anti-McCain stuff there. I don't know if he'd vote Obama if he's the nominee, but he isn't for McCain.

by catfish1 on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 05:32:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh, I know you agree with yourself. (2.00 / 1)

I'd like to apologize to you for the Obama supporters on this thread. They are being obnoxious. They think that that is acceptable.
That's just how they are.

by Scotch on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 12:11:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh, I know you agree with yourself. (2.00 / 0)

i think bob still thinks obama is above the race issue. those days are over, imo.

by the Walrus on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 12:13:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Do you agree with Walrus that Obama is a racist? (none / 0)

by Bob Johnson on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 12:15:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh, I know you agree with yourself. (2.00 / 0)

Okay... what are you talking about..?

The diarist refers to Obama as a racist and a liar without offering a shred of evidence... and you are apologizing for the Obama supporters...? This diary is a hit piece masquerading as an apology (put the country at risk by voting for Obama). But the Obama supporters are out of line somehow?

What alternate universe Democratic site is this?

"If you ever post anything on that website again, I will shove a motherboard so far up your a$$...!" C.J Cregg

by JenKinFLA on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 12:18:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh, I know you agree with yourself. (none / 0)

I don't know. But it is entertaining.

by Drewid on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 08:09:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Yes, he has issues with white women. (2.00 / 1)

Granted, I can see why he does. But he has issues that he hasn't worked out.

His speech:

1. Glass ceiling experienced by "white women". Not other women? Just white women?

Income inequality experienced by "black men". Not black women?
Wife Michelle is a "black american". Not a black woman?
Granny.
Typical white person.

A pattern of the black man vs. the white woman fighting for the same jobs.

by catfish1 on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 05:26:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Who here agrees with the diarist... (2.00 / 1)

Not sure whether or not comments like these could be classifed as 'racist but certainly predjudical and offensive.
Typical Black person.
THOSE people
Typical White person
YOU people
All these comments are meant to demean one race or one type of person (such as the disabled, mentally retarded, poor, many other races) In other words it says that in YOUR mind they are all the same and in some ways inferior to the speaker.
In Obama's comment "Typical White Person" means to infer that all white persons are typical in their fears of Black people and might not be a'racist'statement but completely and utterly uninformed and ignorant.

by Justwords on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 04:51:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Who here agrees with the diarist... (none / 0)

He was refering to his own grandmother. My grandmother had issues with race as well. My grandmother may have had more issues than Obama's b/c that "typical white person" accepted a black son-in-law and grandson (the true act of a racist), I'm not sure my grandmother would have. But I still loved my grandmother.

Can't we love those in our lives and still recognize their faults? Are not we allowed leeway in the language we use when we refer to our own family members? Or must we use perfect verbiage throughout our lives and not possibly misspeak? And b/c of this one statement, you throw your presidential candidate over board. I've talked to former Obama supporters and they were not a vitriolic as you are. So with all the above, you don't sound credible to me.

by nklein on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 07:22:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Who here agrees with the diarist... (2.00 / 1)

typical white person may seem to you, Bob, a small thing to call the man a racist over.

but he set himself up as the post racial candidate. He was supposed to transcend race.

and anyway, you couldn't sit in that pew for 20 years and not be a racist.
it isnt a one way street.

by the Walrus on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 11:56:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Who here agrees with the diarist... (none / 0)

Is it racist for a white person like Obama to say "typical white person?"

The choice is simple: A President who voted for the worst of Bush's odius agenda, or one who didn't.

by Liberal Avenger on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 12:17:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Who here agrees with the diarist... (2.00 / 1)

Don't bring your spamming and harrassment here from DailKos. It is not as welcome as it is at the Trash Bin.

by Scotch on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 12:04:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Do you agree with Walrus that Obama is a racist? (none / 0)

by Bob Johnson on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 12:10:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Do you agree with Walrus (2.00 / 1)

Not playing your question and answer game. Sorry.

by Scotch on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 12:13:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Do you agree with Walrus (none / 0)

It was a simple question....

"If you ever post anything on that website again, I will shove a motherboard so far up your a$$...!" C.J Cregg

by JenKinFLA on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 12:19:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Where does the diarist say (none / 0)

Obama is a racist?

Reasonable people can disagree.

by mnicholson0220 on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 12:05:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Where does the diarist say (2.00 / 2)

that is my opinion. yes sir. i think from his choice to make that man his mentor, stay in that church for 20 years equate his granny with his chosen pastor and then call her a typical white person it is safe to say obama is a racist.

but i didnt start this diary to discuss Bo's racism. Bob dug that up troll hunting. and i already stated my position that he is, so you couldve read my respnse without bringing it up again.

by the Walrus on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 12:09:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

All over the comments section. (none / 0)

Read Walrus' comments here.

by Bob Johnson on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 12:10:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Who here agrees with the diarist... (none / 0)

Who here agrees with the diarist... (none / 0)
... that Obama is a racist?
Anyone?
Any of you folks who recommended this diary?

Didn't rec it. Don't agree.

I'm only here to look for engels. Screw the rest of this big blue craphole.

by sricki on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 01:12:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Who here agrees with the diarist... (2.00 / 1)

Bob - we don't have to agree with every word and every thought in a diary to rec it.
Well - not here anyway.

Surely, you don't want to go the Thought Police and Purity route.

by annefrank on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 09:01:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Who here agrees with the diarist... (none / 0)

I'm curious, what part of this diary did you like enough to rec it? The quality of the writing? The well thought out nature? The in depth analysis? The fact that it fullfilled a deep desire that Obama supporters will suddenly change their minds and prove you rigth?

I can't imagine you will vote for any slate that has someone you believe is a liar and a racist as its VP, so you might want to change your tag.

by AllergicToBS on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 04:47:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: To Hillary supporters an apology from an Obama (none / 0)

Walrus may regret voting for Obama, but not for voting for Bush -- twice.

The choice is simple: A President who voted for the worst of Bush's odius agenda, or one who didn't.

by Liberal Avenger on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 11:51:38 PM EST

Agreed. (none / 0)

S/he's pining for a third Bush term.

by Bob Johnson on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 11:52:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Agreed. (none / 0)

yeah... oh, and additionally, Obama is only ahead by Walrus' one vote, hence all the regret...

Oh wait, no, the margin is quite a bit larger than that... never mind.

"If you ever post anything on that website again, I will shove a motherboard so far up your a$$...!" C.J Cregg

by JenKinFLA on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 12:04:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

lack of history hurts credibility (2.00 / 1)

Color me skeptical.

If someone without a comment history shows up and claims to be a convert, I'm thinking s/he could be a plant.

But the arguments are so flimsy, it seems like it could be credible.

by Carl Nyberg on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 12:13:41 AM EST

Re: lack of history hurts credibility (2.00 / 1)

understandable. that was part of the reason for the diary to introduce myself after id already been insulted and accused of voting for bush twice because of my opinion of Obama.

by the Walrus on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 12:21:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: lack of history hurts credibility (none / 0)

Are you concerned that Clinton supporters have used bigotry and racial divisiveness to get less educated "White" Democrats to vote for HRC?

by Carl Nyberg on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 12:25:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: lack of history hurts credibility (2.00 / 1)

Links for your claims, please. From credible sources, that is.

by Soitgoes on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 01:04:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: lack of history hurts credibility (none / 0)

I asked for a personal judgment.

If you can't answer the question, that pretty much says all that needs to be said.

by Carl Nyberg on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 01:47:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: lack of history hurts credibility (2.00 / 1)

nope, not concerned because hillary supporters are not as you claim.

are you concerned that obama has such strong ties to a racist preacher? are you concerned that obama has said very racist comments himself?

by Scope441 on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 01:52:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: lack of history hurts credibility (none / 0)

What has Obama said that is offensive to you?

by Carl Nyberg on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 01:56:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: lack of history hurts credibility (none / 0)

What did Rev. Wright say that offended you?

by Carl Nyberg on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 01:57:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Man the media did a great job (none / 0)

Swiftboating Rev. Wright and Hillary's supporters just picked up the ball and ran with it.
Whole yardstick, measure, others, you and all.

by Drewid on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 08:12:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: To Hillary supporters an apology from an Obama (2.00 / 6)

Thank you, Walrus, for posting this diary! I know buyer's remorse is a difficult to endure but kudos to you for sharing. The Obama diehards don't like it but the Hillary supporters are thrilled.

Obama has been terribly deceptive so it's no wonder a lot of people have been taken in by his rhetoric and hype. The media has been way too harsh on Hillary who deserves much better coverage than she's getting.

Hillary may well prevail and she'll make a wonderful president.

by Nobama on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 12:29:51 AM EST

Understanding Obama (none / 0)

Bilmardre's comment is worth a read.

As for the "typical white person" remark, Obama has expanded on this:

On CNN last night, Obama explained, "What I meant really was that some of the fears of street crime and some of the stereotypes that go along with that are responses that I think many people feel."

He added, "Good people - people who are not in any way racist - are still subject to some of these images and stereotypes and it is very hard to escape from them." - Link

However we react to his campaign, the good and the not so good, the choice is ultimately ours to make, as he said. He did warn that the journey towards change was not going to be easy. He was not kidding!

by Freedom on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 01:04:42 AM EST

Re: Understanding Obama (2.00 / 2)

This is yet another of Obama's backpeddling "Uh, uh, what I REALLY meant to say was...." moments that his handlers have helped him frame to get away from the flak of his original statements. Double yawn from me.

by Soitgoes on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 01:13:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Understanding Obama (none / 0)

Come to think of it, I'd rather someone recognizes a mistake and backpedals than deliberately and flagrantly lies to me. And Eskow has more on this particular "non-truth".

by Freedom on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 01:22:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Understanding Obama (2.00 / 2)

He backpeddles because his handlers let him know how what he's saying or doing is being received. He then goes out on damage control with his handlers' messages well in place. Not exactly soul searching.

by Soitgoes on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 01:27:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Walrus, don't let Bob get to you... (2.00 / 5)

He's pretty well known to be a baiting troll who will try and needle you into oblivion. It's best not to respond to him (in other words, don't feed the troll). Eventually he goes away if he can't draw anyone into a fight or he can't find enough other like minded posters to perform Clinton bashing parties with. Welcome,by the way!

by Soitgoes on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 01:10:15 AM EST

Dems, we've screwed each other this election. (2.00 / 1)

Republicans should exult. I'm not sure if the folks on dailykos and mydd are in the minority, but the gulf between Hillary and Obama supporters is so wide that they might as well be from the extremes of opposing parties. Though they are so close in terms of policy, the campaign has made it so that most of the Hillary supporters here won't support Obama in the general, and a good bit of the Obama supporters here (including me) won't support Hillary in the general. And some supporters of each actually out and out hate each other. We can't even stand to talk to each other anymore.

The perfect storm for Dems in '08 is sinking our own damned ship.

Only an Iraq explosion and an economic implosion can save the Dems divided house now. And a Hillary-Obama make-up love-fest that convinces all of us to join together again as one party.

Sad.

by maconblue on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 01:30:15 AM EST

Re: Dems, we've screwed each other this election. (none / 0)

I don't think there's anything to be sad about, maconblue. This is what happens when people are empowered. At the end of the day, nobody (except the ignorant ones) votes against his or her own interests.

by Freedom on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 01:40:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Yup he is (2.00 / 5)

I will say it. I believe Obama is a racist.

Thank you Walrus candid conversation.

I actually vetted Obama right after IA. I loved his speech and wanted learn more about him.

So, i came across his church. The website alone came across extermely racist. I researched wright and realized immediately that he was a racist and just couldn't understand why obama, someone who transends race could belong to a church like that and call a man like wright his mentor. i belived then that he was a racist.

i started posting on this site my concerns about the church. remember, this is months before all this hit the news. i posted on this site asking for people's thoughts. and obama supporters, not very different from bob johnsons and jenkinfla's, called me the racist and said that church meant nothing. i couldn't even have an honest debate with them.

then michelle's comments hit the news, wrights sermons show up on youtube and now obama saying his grandmother was a typical white person. come on, if any white person spoke about blacks this way, there were be an uproar. and there should be! just like there should be when a black talks about whites this way.

add all this together and YES, i do think obama is a racist. i could careless if he is a sitting senator. i believe trent lott is a racist and he was a sitting senator. i believe obama is as well. my head isn't in the sand.

by Scope441 on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 01:32:57 AM EST

A different point of view ... (2.00 / 0)

From Brite Divinity School:

All speeches, sermons and documents need to be understood through the setting, historical moment, issues and audience they address. Religious leadership always includes the prophetic responsibility to speak and act in behalf of God's justice. As a religious leader, Wright's preaching is clearly in the broad stream of scholars and preachers who stand on the biblical foundation of prophets such as Amos, Isaiah, Jeremiah and Jesus who also spoke words of God's judgment to the political and religious community of their day.

Such prophetic preaching is especially valued in the tradition of the black church, which serves for many as the only safe place where African-Americans may speak honestly about the experience of racial injustice in this country. The righteous anger of a prophet, as shown in scripture, must not be confused with hate speech. - Link.

As for the "typical white person" remark, methinks you are beating a dead horse. Senator Obama has already explained what he meant to say. Race is a very awkward subject, even more so in a society that has kept those issues under wraps for so long. It is therefore to be expected that there would be gaffes made whenever it is discussed. The question is whether we deliberately convert those gaffes into loops from which we hope never to escape for fear of what lies ahead. Or we move on and confront the challenges.

by Freedom on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 01:57:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A different point of view ... (none / 0)

Hah. "race is a very awkward subject"

For whites, not for blacks.

by destardi on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 02:18:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A different point of view ... (none / 0)

I think that's the point - for someone who orates so well, he has a difficult time saying what he really means. So much so that a new acronym has appeared on the blogs - W.O.R.M. - What Obama Really Meant.

Why don't he and his wife just say what they really mean? After all, he claims to be a new kind of politician...

by cmugirl90 on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 04:51:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Wrong (2.00 / 3)

Yes, race is a touchy topic. however, obama is very well educated, there is no excuse for some of the rhetoric he has used.

i am a white male and his church specifically has grouped me in with the "white man" has caused our problems. they have blamed me. i am the furthest thing from a racist and have never done anything to hold back someone who is african american. yet that church has painted me as the bad guy. obama supports that church and uses terms like "typical white person." sorry, i expect more out of someone at obama's level. i would NEVER say "typical black person." i know that is racist and wouldn't even think of saying something like that.

obama is smarter than that. i question if he actually believes what he says and what wright says. i see NO evidence that says he doesn't believe it.

by Scope441 on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 02:06:37 AM EST

by Freedom on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 02:19:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

See, I bet you don't even realize that you just wrote something that is quite racist:

i would NEVER say "typical black person." i know that is racist and wouldn't even think of saying something like that.

Why would you think that saying "a typical black person" is racist? Could it be it's because you associate "bad things" to the idea of "a typical black person"? And therefore your brain tells you that this is not a good thing to "think" (too late, by the way) nor to say?

Does calling someone "a typical white person" bring forth images of "bad things" also? In the case of Senator Obama, he explicitly specified that he was not referring to anything racist, but to defensive behaviour when confronted with the unknown. That is a question that needs to be answered.

by the Walrus on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 02:29:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

it is racist because it is a generalization.

theyre all this or that, all white/black people.

yeah, some of this is in most. Obama set a higher standard with his campaign. and when he slipped, it calls into question the rationale for his candidacy. he was the post racial candidate. the one to help the rest of us get there.

that's gone, and in that new light his campaign looks like a campaign with lots of style, too much style. too much fluff. hope, change, future, past and what does any of it mean, really. i mean his and hillary's proposals are quite close in most areas.

and there is other baggage with obama, seems like more everyday with this shady real estate deal, and this passport thing. as if the "moral compass" he chose wasnt enough. it is collapsing.
collapsed, for me anyway.

--
how effective do you think "GodDamn America" in an endless loop in October will be?
not to be rude, just sayin.

Re: Wrong (2.00 / 1)

actually what i said isn't racist at all. if i am referring to something that is negative and then tie in an entire race of people, that is racist. that assumes that all people of that race are what ever it is you are arguing.

obama did that when he said "typical white person." that is why i don't say "typical white person or typical black person." it groups everyone in that race in one particular way. there are good white people and bad white people. there are good black people and bad black people. obama put all whites into one stereotype. that is racist.

do we need to further our "racism 101" discussion?

by Scope441 on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 02:39:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

by Scope441 on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 02:43:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

interesting that if you believe that by me saying "typical black person" is racist, than you obviously agree that obama saying "typical white person" is racist as well.

proves my point further.

by Freedom on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 03:49:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Hey! I did NOT say that your "saying 'typical black person' is racist". What I wrote is that there is an inherent racism in saying that the THOUGHT and subsequent UTTERANCE of "a typical black person" is racist (hence that's why you would never go there, you said).

Take, for example, this study on German mentality. It is, of course, a cultural study related to the business world. It's an interesting study. Nothing very controversial. Do you think it would be the same if the study was dealing with Nazi Germany? I don't think so.

What I am saying is that the concept of "typical whatever" becomes damaging when it contains within itself negative attributes. So, when YOU say that you will not even think about the concept of "typical black person" because to do so would be racist, I say you are already a racist because even as you are conceiving the notion of "a typical black person," you have ALREADY attributed "bad things" to it. In other words, given the way that you've been socialized, you cannot help being racist.

BTW, here is an interesting read.

Thanks for this Diary! (2.00 / 1)

No need to apologize. I think there are a lot of folks who voted for Obama early on, who would change their vote if they could. Now, our job is to do whatever we can to help HRC.

by cjbardy on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 02:19:10 AM EST

Re: To Hillary supporters an apology from an Obama (none / 0)

I swear, it feels like sometimes the Clinton people create BS new accounts with lame stories having nearly no reasoned analysis just to perpetuate among themselves the myth that Hillary is somehow turning this around.

by TheSilverMonkey on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 02:26:32 AM EST

Re: To Hillary supporters an apology from an Obama (none / 0)

by TheSilverMonkey on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 02:28:18 AM EST

Re: To Hillary supporters an apology from an Obama (none / 0)

It's ok, we understand that obama supporters tend to be hypersensitive about things such as race, and are prone to perceiving things that aren't there.

For instance:
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/ did_clinton_darken_obamas_skin.html

yea, I'll try not to laugh...

by destardi on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 02:16:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Walrus (none / 0)

I'm afraid I have to burst your bubble... Monkey. I've seen "the walrus" posting pro-Obama previously. Can you not believe that someone would have buyer's remorse over him? Considering his unfavorable ratings have increased, and his positive ratings have decreased, and Hillary has gained on him in the polls (sadly so has McCain.)

by Catriley sez on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 03:48:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi mosaics! (none / 0)

Everyone must go here and look at the mosaics of Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi. They look just like Bush did on his mosaic using the faces of the fallen to make their faces of this blasted WAR!!!! 4,000 and counting!

http://www.michaelmoore.com/

by mcctx on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 02:52:34 AM EST

by mcgish on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 05:06:37 AM EST

It's a shame that Hillary's supporters stoop to race baiting and finding racist motives where there are none. I believe after this election African Americans will no longer vote as a block for dems. The stuff I've seen among so-called liberal dems has been horrifying.

Obama is definitely not a racist and neither is Wright. Obama is a product of a voluntary union of white and black. Wright, however, is "whiter" than Obama. He is a product of rape. The white part of him wants nothing to do with him. So he is angry, but he is not a racist. I have heard nothing in his sermons that would indicate racial animus toward whites. He even made a point of attacking RICH white people only. He did not attack all white people. Wright has spoken out in defense of native Americans, Japanese, Iraqis, etc. What racist, black or white, does that?

Look, Hillary blew this campaign. Stop trying to tear down good men because your candidate f'd up.

In spite of the fears of the Republican attack machine, I believe that Hillary and her supporters have dredged up crap that republicans will be unwilling to dredge up. Added to that, McCain is a more decent and principled person than Hillary. Therefore the general election will be easier for Obama, in terms of racist attacks and race-baiting, than this dem primary has been.

Re: To Hillary supporters (2.00 / 1)

So you agree he attacked rich white people? attacking rich white people is ok to you then? i come from a well off family, we are white, yet we are NOT racist.

its a shame to see so many democrats lose their core values. this party is supposed to be against racism and stand up against it. obama had his chance to do that with the racist wright and he did nothing.

by Scope441 on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 10:30:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

by mcgish on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 05:36:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

He did not attack them. My mistake. He truthfully declared that rich white people run the country (they also run the world). Do you dispute this?

Re: To Hillary supporters (2.00 / 1)

You can only dredge up, what exists to be "dredged up".

Hillary didn't do this; the republicans have been bitching about this for a year.

To suggest that a person who is mixed heritage can't be racist is...DUMB. D U M B.

See my other posts above on why your post is..D U M B.

by destardi on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 02:14:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: To Hillary supporters (2.00 / 1)

John Kerry and Ted Kennedy are "rich white people". FYI.

To excuse Wright's behavior and hate rhetoric because of extenuating cirumstances in his background, or the horrors of slavery, is still wrong.

But if you believe that Wright is not being hateful because he or AAs have a reason for their resentment, then why is it that so many American citizens of Japanese descent were herded off to internment camps, lost everything, had families separated, yet you do not have churches filled with Japanese Americans screaming their hatred of America or "white people"? The crimes against the Japanese Americans occurred in our lifetime, yet they act nothing like Rev. Wright.

by Catriley sez on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 03:45:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

by mcgish on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 05:40:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

There are Japanese who are resentful of whites and carry bitter memories. There are also Chinese and hispanics and arabs and Africans who are resentful of whites.

by mcgish on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 05:44:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

but to equate the internment of Japanese with the black American experience is sheer ignorance. The thing that blacks are most imbittered about is being stripped of their sense of self, their language, names, culture and their humanity. And then add hundreds of years of slavery and Jim Crow. The internment of Japanese, while terrible, does not even begin to rise to this level of horror.