UPDATE - Reality strikes inside Camp Clinton: She can't win

Jim VandeHei and Mike Allen at Politico have a new piece up that quotes Clinton camp insiders as knowing full well that she has little to no chance of winning the nomination.

Unless Clinton is able to at least win the primary popular vote -- which also would take nothing less than an electoral miracle -- and use that achievement to pressure superdelegates, she has only one scenario for victory. An African-American opponent and his backers would be told that, even though he won the contest with voters, the prize is going to someone else.

People who think that scenario is even remotely likely are living on another planet.

As it happens, many people inside Clinton's campaign live right here on Earth. One important Clinton adviser estimated to Politico privately that she has no more than a 10 percent chance of winning her race against Barack Obama, an appraisal that was echoed by other operatives.

In other words: The notion of the Democratic contest being a dramatic cliffhanger is a game of make-believe.

VandeHei and Allen break down why and how the Clinton team has managed to keep this fantasy alive, with the complicity of a media that loves a horse race.

The real question is why so many people are playing. The answer has more to do with media psychology than with practical politics.

Journalists, for instance, have become partners with the Clinton campaign in pretending that the contest is closer than it really is. Most coverage breathlessly portrays the race as a down-to-the-wire sprint between two well-matched candidates, one only slightly better situated than the other to win in August at the national convention in Denver.

One reason is fear of embarrassment. In its zeal to avoid predictive reporting of the sort that embarrassed journalists in New Hampshire, the media -- including Politico -- have tended to avoid zeroing in on the tough math Clinton faces.

Avoiding predictions based on polls even before voters cast their ballots is wise policy. But that's not the same as drawing sober and well-grounded conclusions about the current state of a race after millions of voters have registered their preferences.

The antidote to last winter's flawed predictions is not to promote a misleading narrative based on the desired but unlikely story line of one candidate.

It is the math. And the piece goes on to describe the overwhelming math problem Clinton faces. Even her own advisers don't believe she can overcome Obama in total delegates or popular vote.

The story concludes:

Her advisers say privately that the nominee will be clear by the end of June. At the same time, they recognize that the nominee probably is clear already.

What has to irk Clintons' aides is that they felt she might finally have him on the ropes, bruised badly by the Wright fight and wobbly in polls. But the bell rang long ago in the minds of too many voters.

So it appears she will hang on through June, watching her campaign slowly peter out. So we can look forward to a continuation of the bitterness and "kitchen sink"-hurling until then.

Unless enough heavyweights in the Democratic Party have the strength, courage and candor to tell her that it is, indeed, over.

Even her aides know it. I wonder if they've told their candidate?

Update [2008-3-21 15:48:30 by Bob Johnson]:

Halperin at Time adds fuel to the "It's over" fire:

HALPERIN’S TAKE: Painful Things Hillary Clinton Knows — Or Should Know

1. She can’t win the nomination without overturning the will of the elected delegates, which will alienate many Democrats.

2. She can’t win the nomination without a bloody convention battle — after which, even if she won, history and many Democrats would cast her as a villain.

3. Catching up in the popular vote is not out of the question — but without re-votes in Florida and Michigan it will be almost as impossible as catching up in elected delegates.

4. Nancy Pelosi and other leading members of Congress don’t think she can win and want her to give up. Same with superdelegate-to-the-stars Donna Brazile.

5. Obama’s skilled, close-knit staff can do things like silently kill re-votes in Florida and Michigan and not pay a political price.

6. Many of her supporters — and even some of her staffers — would be relieved (and even delighted) if she quit the race; none of his supporters or staff feel that way. Some think she just might throw in the towel in June if it appears efforts to fight on would hurt Obama’s general election chances.

7. The Rev. Wright story notwithstanding, the media still wants Obama to be the nominee — and that has an impact every day.

8. Obama might not be able to talk that well about the new global economy, but she (and McCain) can’t either.

9. Many of the remaining prominent superdelegates want to be for Obama and she (and Harold Ickes) are just barely keeping them from making public commitments to him.

10. She can’t publicly say more than 2% of all the things she would like to say about race, electability, beating McCain and experience.

11. If she somehow found a way to win the nomination, she would have to offer Obama the veep slot, and she doesn’t want to do that.

12. This is a change election, and Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton can never truly be change.

13. Obama is having fun most days, and she isn’t.

14. Even though her campaign staff is having more fun than it has for a long time, there’s hardly anyone there who, given half a chance, wouldn’t slit Mark Penn’s throat — and such internal dissension won’t help her in the home stretch.



Display:


Re: Reality strikes (2.00 / 3)

So if it's over, why aren't the supers jumping in to seal the deal?


by mjc888 on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 03:39:26 PM EST

Read the article and Halperin's insde take. (2.00 / 11)

No one wants to embarrass her. Rightly so.


by Bob Johnson on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 03:49:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Read the article and Halperin's insde take. (2.00 / 3)

I agree....

This is a sitting United States Senator, while there may be conversations outside the public sphere, they will not do so publicly as yet... In order to maintain the efficacy of a Democratic Senator, this would have to be done carefully.


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 04:00:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama wants to Disenfranchise a lot of (1.50 / 6)

states, doesn't he?
He wants that shiny gold Crown on George W. Bush's head.
by internetstar on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 05:39:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Well, HRC isn't Al Gore (1.50 / 2)

He'll get that crown when HELL FREEZES OVER.


by internetstar on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 05:41:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Well, HRC isn't Al Gore (none / 0)

I don't understand.  Are you saying that it's exceedingly likely that HRC will win the nomination?


by semiquaver on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 10:55:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Well, HRC isn't Al Gore (none / 0)

I agree with you, I have no idea what internet star is talking about.  


by cpa1a on Sat Mar 22, 2008 at 08:05:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama wants to Disenfranchise a lot of (2.00 / 1)

I think you're referring to two states (not "a lot" by my definition), and they sort of disenfranchised themselves, didn't they?

Quit trying to make the false case that Obama had something to do with the poor decision made by legislators and parties in FL and MI. It's a really weak, disingenuous argument.


by bookish on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 09:57:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Too Cute By A Half (1.00 / 1)

The Obama campaign's motto.

Obama does not want Michigan and Florida to re-vote because he will get his ass handed to him.  However, not letting them vote will most probably mean that he will lose both states and give McCain the election.  He doesn't seem to be worried about that.  People in those states are pissed and they should be, regardless of what their legislatures did, Howard Dean and Barack Obama are disenfranchising them in their 48 state strategy.  

The "perfect storm" of the blacks compelled to vote for him, the children who don't know any better, the stupid disenfranchising caucuses and Florida and Michigan might given him the nomination but McCain will bury him with his "Too Cute By A Half" campaign.  McCain slapped down Obama once and in the election he will do it again.  


by cpa1a on Sat Mar 22, 2008 at 08:15:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Too Cute By A Half (2.00 / 1)

"However, not letting them vote will most probably mean that he will lose both states and give McCain the election."

We're not losing MI -- maybe FL but Obama will recouop those votes in other states.


by DreamsOfABlueNation on Sat Mar 22, 2008 at 08:52:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Is this (none / 0)

the happiest day of your life?


by catfish1 on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 06:32:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Will Obama be indicted for Voter Fraud? (1.11 / 9)

Hillary can't win the nomination legally - but Obama is trying to win the nomination ILLEGALLY.

http://www.alternet.org/democracy/80392/ ?cID=862786

Voter fraud is serious.


Hillary/Obama08
by annefrank on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 04:18:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hilarious! (1.90 / 10)

You realize, of course, that article to which you link cites not Obama, but Rush Limbaugh for his part in urging Republicans in Ohio to crossover and vote for Clinton.

As Limbaugh is quoted in the piece you cite:

"I helped give Mrs. Clinton the biggest and happiest moment and night of the campaign season so far, maybe her life, and she tells me, "Be careful what you wish for, Rush"? Why, that sounds like a threat, does it not? I've got a Democrat presidential candidate threatening your host. Why, I am stunned! After all I did ..."

Thanks for the link! Maybe I should update the diary...


by Bob Johnson on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 04:22:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hilarious! (1.00 / 1)

Obama seems more liable than Limbaugh since Obama was advocating voters break the law and vote for him!
Limbaugh was "advocating" for Hillary, not himself.
Hillary/Obama08
by annefrank on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 04:25:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The article you cite specifically cites Limbaugh. (2.00 / 7)

Obama's name is not mentioned. The charge with Limbaugh is that he purposely told Republicans to lie in order to vote for Hillary. And, in fact, the Boston Globe reported that:

For a party that loves to hate the Clintons, Republican voters have cast an awful lot of ballots lately for Senator Hillary Clinton: About 100,000 GOP loyalists voted for her in Ohio, 119,000 in Texas, and about 38,000 in Mississippi, exit polls show.

A sudden change of heart? Hardly.

...

Spurred by conservative talk radio, GOP voters who say they would never back Clinton in a general election are voting for her now for strategic reasons: Some want to prolong her bitter nomination battle with Barack Obama, others believe she would be easier to beat than Obama in the fall, or they simply want to register objections to Obama.


by Bob Johnson on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 04:31:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The article you cite specifically cites (1.00 / 1)

I didn't imply the article mentioned Obama.
Just substitute Obama for Limbaugh.

Hillary never distributed fliers encouraging Repubs to switch their registration, become a Dem for one day, and vote for her.
But there are images of Obama's "Dem for a day" fliers - disseminated throughout the country. A clear violation of the law, at least in Ohio.


Hillary/Obama08
by annefrank on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 08:22:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

'Just substitute Obama for Limbaugh' (2.00 / 2)

Why?

This is really funny...


by Bob Johnson on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 08:24:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

what the hell? (none / 0)

why would you substitute Obama for Limbaugh.
YOu know that way I can prove Hillary is Genhgis Khan. I'll pull up and article on him and do search and replace.

You are either a troll or a nut.


-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 09:48:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hilarious! (2.00 / 3)

You seem very sure of yourself. Can you give us a specific example of when he broke the law, and which law he broke? Your link is about Lim-bla.


by BeekerDynasty on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 04:55:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hilarious! (1.00 / 2)

In the article - substitute Obama for Limbaugh.

For the past year Obama has encouraged Repubs to "be a Democrat for a day" and vote for HIM.
Obama supporters distributed "Dem for a day" fliers all over the country.

IOW - Obama broke the law. At least in Ohio.


Hillary/Obama08
by annefrank on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 05:10:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

wow you are so (2.00 / 2)

much of your rocker.

The Dem for a day was one precinct captain asking without the knowledge of the Obama campaign. The second they foudn out, they put the kabosh on it.

Its kinda like that story of a Clinton volunteer phone banker who kept saying Osama instead of Obama.

You think it was done with Hillary's permission.


-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 05:31:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: wow you are so (1.00 / 1)

BO has an online ad telling GOP in PA to be Dem for a day doesnt he?


ginaswo
by ginaswo on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 07:11:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: wow you are so (2.00 / 2)

No, he's telling them to reregister as Democrats!  Is that a bad thing?!?  I thought we wanted more Democrats in our column.


John McCain wants you to be poor!
by nklein on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 08:14:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: online ad (2.00 / 1)

No, I've never seen an ad like that. I do know he has a campaign to get moderate Republicans to change their party registration, but I've never seen an ad or even heard a comment from the campaign that implied in any way that the request was for a TEMPORARY change only.


by BeekerDynasty on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 08:30:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: wow you are so (1.00 / 1)

No!  all last summerand fall, Obama was encouraging Repubs to be a "Dem for a day" and vote for HIM.
Not in the General - just in their primaries and caucuses.
He even assured audiences that Repubs could switch back before the general.

Hillary/Obama08
by annefrank on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 08:26:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

All summer? And Fall? (2.00 / 2)

Really?

And he "even assured audiences that Repubs could switch back in the general?"

Where did he do that?


by Bob Johnson on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 08:28:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: wow you are so (2.00 / 2)

Seriously, before you start claiming Obama's an axe murderer or something, could you back up just one of your claims with an actual reputable source? Is this just something you heard, that Bill heard, that Chelsea overheard in a loud crowded casino?


by BeekerDynasty on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 08:33:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: wow you are so (2.00 / 1)

It's a question of intention, hello! Republicans vote for Obama because they want him to be President.  No voter fraud there.


by hekebolos on Sat Mar 22, 2008 at 03:10:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: wow you are so (1.00 / 1)

No!  all last summerand fall, Obama was encouraging Repubs to be a "Dem for a day" and vote for HIM.
Not in the General - just in their primaries and caucuses.
He even assured audiences that Repubs could switch back before the general.

Hillary/Obama08
by annefrank on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 08:26:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: wow you are so (2.00 / 2)

Source please?


by BeekerDynasty on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 08:34:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

yes, yes (2.00 / 1)

source please


-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 09:46:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: wow you are so (1.00 / 1)

Sorry Kindthought, but the Dem for A Day tactic was in full force here in PA by BO... so let's not cite false information. I LIVE here, do you?


Take it to the Convention! Hillary '08"
by JHL on Sat Mar 22, 2008 at 01:38:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I do live in PA (none / 0)

He has run one tv spot I've seen so far, it did not suggest people change their parties.  In fact, "They've just released three television ads that will run in the state's six major media markets. Clinton hasn't run any ads in Pennsylvania yet.

The ads have been dubbed "Opportunity," "Toughest" and "Carry." "Opportunity" runs 60 seconds, and is a biographical piece; "Toughest" is about his efforts at ethics reform and opposition to lobbyists. "Carry," which has run elsewhere, is about his bipartisanship during his time in the Illinois state senate. "

You can see them here:http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/i ndex.html

Go ahead and point out where he suggests the dem for a day stuff.  (Hint: He doesn't, you are making shit up)

Also, as far as I know there is no law in PA that prohibits switching parties for whatever reason you want whenever you want as long as it is done 30 days previous to the election.


by furiousxgeorge on Sat Mar 22, 2008 at 03:11:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I do live in PA (1.00 / 2)

And how is this NOT suggesting Dems for a Day??? And btw, if you can't be civil, GET LOST! I don't need your lousy mouth remarks. You should be banned from here. You, quite frankly, are EXACTLY the BO supporter that convinced me NOT TO EVER VOTE FOR HIM! Do me a favor, don't bother with a reply. I am done with you.


Take it to the Convention! Hillary '08"
by JHL on Sat Mar 22, 2008 at 03:17:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Wow (none / 0)

What exactly in my comment do you think you are responding to, because it doesn't bear any resemblance to your reply.


by furiousxgeorge on Sat Mar 22, 2008 at 04:22:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wow (none / 0)

My deepest apologies... It was intended for Kingthought... I am so sorry.


Take it to the Convention! Hillary '08"
by JHL on Sat Mar 22, 2008 at 11:13:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hilarious! (2.00 / 6)

Next you can link an article about Charles Manson, and then switch Obama and Manson's names. Then he's a murderer!!!


unapologetic Obama supporter
by dantes on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 05:35:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Beware the Barack Obama, son! (2.00 / 1)

The jaws that bite,
the claws that catch.
Beware the Jubbub Bird and shun
The frumious Bandersnatch!

(Recently discovered Hillary '08 campaign literature.)


by Dumbo on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 11:27:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hilarious! (2.00 / 4)

Obama has encouraged Republicans to be Democrats for the election cycle. He wants Republicans who will support him throughout the election cycle.

There is a key difference between switching parties to vote for someone and to vote against someone. Voting for someone implies that you support the values of that person. Voting against someone implies that you don't.

See the difference?


by Texas Gray Wolf on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 05:42:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Fine, let them vote for him, because I won't. (1.00 / 1)


by JimR on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 08:04:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hilarious! (2.00 / 2)

LOL, in criminal matters like ILLEGAL voter fraud, it really doesn't help your case to substitute one name in for another, in fact you would be laughed out of court if the judge didn't get so angry she jailed you for contempt.

That said, you still haven't answered the question. Can you point to one actual quote by Obama asking people to, "be a Democrat for a day" or are you now changing your story from Obama said this (for his campaign) to Limbaugh said it for Clinton's campaign? BTW, asking voters to change their registration and support any candidacy is not voter fraud. It is, unless you are also asking them to change it back right after they vote, actually simply called building the party. So, we really need the, "be a Democrat FOR A DAY" part. Can you find that?

We also still need you to point out any specific law in Ohio (or anywhere else) that forbids saying (as apposed to doing), "be a Democrat for a day"? My understanding of our constitution is that it guarantees freedom of speech, but what do I know? It is a crazy year.


by BeekerDynasty on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 08:26:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hilarious! (1.00 / 1)

Apparently Ohio law disagrees with you since they're conducting an investigation.


Hillary/Obama08
by annefrank on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 08:28:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yes, they're conducting an investigation. (2.00 / 2)

Of Limbaugh.

You seem to be having a problem with facts today.


by Bob Johnson on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 08:29:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hilarious! (2.00 / 2)

Again, source please on both the law and the offense?


by BeekerDynasty on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 08:36:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hilarious! (1.00 / 1)

http://www.alternet.org/module/printvers ion/80392


Hillary/Obama08
by annefrank on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 11:36:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hilarious! (2.00 / 1)

You beclown yourself.  

As has been stated above, that article only mentions an investigation of Limbaugh.  This is your last chance to provide a source for your claim that Obama is being investigated for voter fraud.


by interestedbystander on Sat Mar 22, 2008 at 10:12:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

you are so a troll (none / 0)


-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 09:50:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: you are so a troll (1.00 / 1)

A troll?
No. I just never fell under Obama's spell.
Hillary/Obama08
by annefrank on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 11:43:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: you are so a troll (2.00 / 1)

Won't it be difficult for Obama to be VP from a prison cell?  You crack me up.


John McCain isn't evil. He's just wrong about a lot of things. Vote Obama!
by proseandpromise on Sat Mar 22, 2008 at 01:19:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: you are so a troll (none / 0)

I think a troll would be less obvious.


by AllergicToBS on Sat Mar 22, 2008 at 10:21:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hilarious! (none / 0)

Remember - Limbaugh only used his radio voice several times to encourage Repubs to vote for Hillary.
But Obama put a lot of time and effort planning and implementing this strategy in various states.
He guided voters to break the law, at least in Ohio, and vote for HIM.  Limbaugh was "advocating" for Hillary - not himself.
(I x'd out the phone number)

WANNA BECOME AN OBAMACRAT?!!!
By Obama Florida 2008
Published: April 24, 2007

http://my.barackobama.com/page/community /post/jacksonvilleforobama/CrsJ

Tens of thousands of people in Florida are already supporting Barack Obama for president.

But, you know what? You won't be able to vote for him in the all-important Florida Primary next February unless you are a registered Democrat, or unless you re-register as a Democrat.

See, Florida law mandates a "closed primary" for presidential primaries. Even if you're an independent, these archaic laws will not let you vote in either major party primary.

Put another way -- you have been legally disenfranchised.

That's why "Democrat for a Day" was launched this spring by ObamaFlorida2008. Using the official forms provided by all Supervisors of Elections offices, you may re-register as a Democrat for that one day -- when the primary is likely to be held -- on February 5, 2008. You must do so before the end of 2007, to make sure it is done 30 days before the primary.

*But this is not about some "hard sell" to recruit voters to become permanent Democrats. Not at all. After the primary, you may re-register back to the Republican or Libertarian parties, or revert to your previous status as an Independent! There will be plenty of time before the general election in November 2008.

ObamaFlorida2008 recognizes and respects all citizens who have varying points of view. We just want to make it make it possible to vote for Barack Obama in the primary -- or for that matter -- anyone you wish.

Duval, Hillsbrough, Pinellas, Alachua, Leon, Volusia, Nassau, Clay, Okaloosa, Polk and St. Johns voters are already re-registering in the "Democrat for a Day" program.

Within weeks, it will be expanded to all 67 counties in Florida.

And, from the standpoint of the Obama campaign, it is a win-win situation! For example, how many Republicans do you think will re-register to vote for our respected opponent Hillary Clinton? That's right ... virtually no one.

But we're finding that up to 20 percent of Obama supporters are registered Republicans.

In fact, during the first couple of weeks in April, some 150 Republicans indeed became "Democrats for a Day." You might call them "Obamacrats!"

And this is without any official launch of the program.

The goal is 100,000 new voters for Obama in Florida by the end of 2007.

For more information, contact your local Obama groups in the counties mentioned, and if you are in a different county, make sure they get it started!

For more information, call ObamaFlorida2008 Director of Voter Registration Aaron Hoffman at 904 xxx xxxx, or email him at ahoffman@obamaflorida2008.com.

In the Tampa-St. Pete area, contact Tom Squires of the Tampa Bay O-Train through the national Obama website (BarackObama.com).

You may also call 904 xxx xxxx.

Get involved. Become an Obamacrat! Get your friends and other supporters to do so as well!

And we'll see you at the polls for the Florida Priimary on February 5, 2008!


Hillary/Obama08
by annefrank on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 09:46:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hilarious! (none / 0)


Though precinct captains are volunteers, they are designated as such by the campaigns. And while this flyer isn't the official work of the Obama campaign, in this race campaigns have been held liable for the actions of such volunteers. When a Hillary county coordinator forwarded a copy of the Obama Muslim smear email, it became national news for days, leading to her resignation.

...

Obama spokesman Bill Burton confirmed that Buchanan is a precinct captain, and sent me this statement:

We've learned that one individual who volunteers for the campaign was making the flyer and we've instructed him to stop creating and distributing it. But make no mistake, we want as many independents and Republicans to become Democrats and help to build a new governing majority in this country.


http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsm emo.com/2008/01/obama_precinct_captains_ mailer_urges_republicans_to_switch_parti es_and_caucus_against_hillary.php

So what did we learn here.

1. Hillary county coordinator forwarded a copy of the Obama Muslim smear email

2. Obama's volunteer captain put out a flyer "Democrat for a day"

SO were they both sanctioned by their campaigns or were they acting on their own?

Pick one?


-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 09:58:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hilarious! (none / 0)

My post and link are from April 2007 - sanctioned by Obama's campaign.

Your link is about an Obama Nevada volunteer in Jan. 2008.
See - when the Nevada thingy became news, the Obama Camp made it appear it was the actions of a LONE loose cannon in the Obama Camp.
Obama didn't have the guts to admit he had condoned the same actions throughout last year when he was encouraging Repubs to switch registration for ONE DAY and vote for him.


Hillary/Obama08
by annefrank on Sat Mar 22, 2008 at 09:13:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hilarious! (2.00 / 1)

Another thing is that Ohio requires voters to make this pledge.  Is that the case that whatever state you claim Obama was trying to do this in?


Beat McCain!
by thezzyzx on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 08:39:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Clearly, reality hasn't struck here (2.00 / 1)

Echoing other posters; hilarious.


Nos causidicus Obama , ergo nos non suadeo
by rb608 on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 06:10:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The say anything, do anything campaign (none / 0)

It is not only Hillary Clinton but many of her supporters who will say anything and do anything to win an election.

Have you been reduced to this? Have you no shame?

Either that or there is a disconnect with reality here. Either way, so sad.


by LibDem on Sat Mar 22, 2008 at 05:23:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Reality strikes inside Camp Clinton: She can't (1.87 / 8)

Either Obama doesn't think it's over, or his campaign is continuing to employ divisive tactics just for the heck of it.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 03:40:46 PM EST

No campaign quits until the other side concedes. (2.00 / 3)

Read the article. The Clinton team -- mainly Ickes -- is still out there hammering supers.


by Bob Johnson on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 03:50:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No campaign quits until the other side concede (2.00 / 2)

What's the difference, if it's really over?

The day the Obama campaign starts to focus on unifying the party and winning over Clinton supporters for November is the day I'll believe they think it's over.  Until that day, all of this is just posturing.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 03:52:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama has turned his attention to McCain. (2.00 / 4)

He barely talks about Clinton. His staffers, of course, continue to work toward securing supers and making their case.

Just because she won't quit doesn't mean it's not over.


by Bob Johnson on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 03:56:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama has turned his attention to McCain. (1.80 / 5)

Virtually every day I see another personal attack on Hillary from the Obama campaign.  No one would behave this way if their sole concern were bringing Clinton supporters into the fold for November.

I realize, in your head, it probably makes perfect sense to say "she can't win" at the exact same time you say the Obama campaign is still working on "securing supers and making their case."  But don't expect to persuade many people.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 04:09:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Okay, Steve. (2.00 / 3)

I guess these Clinton insiders are just lowering expectations, eh?


by Bob Johnson on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 04:11:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Okay, Steve. (2.00 / 2)

That may well be the honest belief of those unnamed individuals.

I didn't question that, but simply focused on the fact that the Obama campaign continues to aim personal attacks at Hillary even though they've supposedly got this thing sewn up.  If "it's over" were a statement of fact rather than a rhetorical taunt, there would be no reason for them to do that.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 04:15:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Right, Steve. (2.00 / 1)

Why don't they just shut it down?

Geez...


by Bob Johnson on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 04:17:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Right, Steve. (1.75 / 4)

I realize sarcasm is pretty much the only arrow in your rhetorical quiver, but I'm afraid sarcasm will not explain why a candidate who has the primary wrapped up would continue to engage in divisive personal attacks against the candidate whose supporters he will need in November.

Have a nice day, Bob.  I'm sure you have many other Clinton supporters to go taunt in the name of unity.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 04:22:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

'Taunt?' (2.00 / 1)

Facing facts is not "taunting," Steve.

Have a nice day.


by Bob Johnson on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 04:32:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

i suppose they want her to concede (none / 0)

sooner rather than later. if this is so, they'd want to keep close to her in PA (she'll probably win) and keep close or win by large enough margins in other states in the hope that the math will be even more impossible to ignore. if the perception continues that she's still in this, she will be less likely to drop out of the race and this will go all the way to Denver, which could be bad for the party.


peace out
by eyeball on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 07:00:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Right, Steve. (2.00 / 1)

No candidate is going to unilaterally disarm.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 07:11:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Right, Steve. (2.00 / 1)

Could you please itemize the daily personal attacks that you claim HRC has endured?


--1jphusseinb-- she's not a monster, as far as I know--diplomat Sinbad, making the world safe--all bluster, no cattle--
by 1jpb on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 07:41:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama is a real Monster... (2.00 / 3)

According to HRC campaign Spokesman Phil Singer- Obama's asking for an an apology to the American people for suggesting that she hadn't been involved in passing NAFTA when her schedules provide "direct, incontrovertible evidence that Senator Clinton was involved on this issue" was a "personal attack."  

Asking for her to release her tax returns is a personal attack akin to Ken Starr.

It seems like challenging her with anything that is difficult to respond to is a personal attack.  Obama is a real Monster with all the personal attacks he is levying</snark>


by sharpfork on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 10:03:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama is a real Monster... (2.00 / 1)

Asking her to release her tax returns is a personal attack?

Please explain this faulty line of reasoning.


I read the body count out of the paper; now it's written all over my face.
by JDF on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 10:37:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama is a real Monster... (2.00 / 1)

I was just echoing her campaign saying it was like Starr...  notice the closing snark tag...


by sharpfork on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 10:47:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Don't use the plural (none / 0)

That's o-n-e person who said that 10% crap.

Personally, I'm more optimistic about Clinton's chances than I've been since before South Carolina, when I thought she was the favorite.  I still think Obama's the favorite, but only on about a 60% basis.  I bought at Intrader this week, where Hillary is running at about 25%, similar to IEM and Rasmussen Markets prices.


by Trickster on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 06:57:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

One person, (2.00 / 1)

whose assessment was then corroborated by at least two more inside the campaign, according to the article.


by McNasty on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 07:00:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Give me the quote (none / 0)

There was very little concrete sourcing in that slippily-worded article.


by Trickster on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 10:18:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Don't use the plural (2.00 / 1)

What states does HRC need to win, and by how much?  What elected delegate deficit can she have going into Denver?  Keep in mind that taking this from BHO (with more elected delegates) would have an affect for Democrats in November and beyond.  What uncommitted super delegates can HRC count on?  Keep in mind that there are many more uncommitted SDs in states won by BHO than there are in states won by HRC.

Do you think the Clintons care more about their own electoral success, or that of the party as a whole?  See this link for historic data:
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200102/sc hneider


--1jphusseinb-- she's not a monster, as far as I know--diplomat Sinbad, making the world safe--all bluster, no cattle--
by 1jpb on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 07:47:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hope you didn't bet much (none / 0)

Seriously. The credit crunch is bad enough already. People lose a lot by betting out of wish fulfilment rather than realities. I should know. I support the English soccer team. Bye bye money.


by brit on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 10:15:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No campaign quits until the other side concede (2.00 / 1)

I truly do not believe that can happen until Obama leads in teh super delegate count. He still trails clinton by 30-40 Super delegates who have endorsed, depending upon whose count you beleive.


Bill Foster would agree, Barack Obama has coat tails.
by Walt Starr on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 03:57:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No campaign quits until the other side concede (none / 0)

I agree with you that it's not over, it's stupid for Obama supporters to say it is, and that we'll have a pretty good sense that someone has won when they decisively start focusing on McCain.  Now is clearly not that time.


by HSTruman on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 06:47:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No campaign quits until the other side concede (2.00 / 2)

He hit McCain hard on Iraq on the anniversary. Hillary was in MI looking for the do-over. Obama has been much more focused on, and critical of, McCain, as compared to Hillary.


The Washington Post gave Mrs Clinton four Pinocchios for [the sniper story], which is like three Michelin stars, only for lying. -- The Economist
by BITNPB on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 07:23:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No campaign quits until the other side (none / 0)

It's a great strategy for Hillary.


Hillary/Obama08
by annefrank on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 09:54:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No campaign quits until the other side concede (2.00 / 1)

What states does HRC need to win, and by how much?  What elected delegate deficit can she have going into Denver?  Keep in mind that taking this from BHO (with more elected delegates) would have an affect for Democrats in November and beyond.  What uncommitted super delegates can HRC count on?  Keep in mind that there are many more uncommitted SDs in states won by BHO than there are in states won by HRC.

Do you think the Clintons care more about their own electoral success, or that of the party as a whole?  See this link for historic data:
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200102/sc hneider


--1jphusseinb-- she's not a monster, as far as I know--diplomat Sinbad, making the world safe--all bluster, no cattle--
by 1jpb on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 07:48:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I can save him some time. (1.00 / 5)

There's no use of him even trying to win me over. I'll vote for McCain and do everything I can to convince others to do the same.


by JimR on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 08:24:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I can save him some time. (none / 0)

Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.


by amiches on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 08:52:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Adios amiches! ;-) (none / 0)


by JimR on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 09:53:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Glad you're on record. (2.00 / 2)

But I'm afraid that will be second time you're preferred candidate will lose this election cycle.


by Bob Johnson on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 08:57:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

we'll see (1.00 / 2)


by JimR on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 09:57:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

So.... (none / 0)

You're a Republican then?

You know, Clinton and the people around her have done a few things which I find beyond the pale, but there has not been a moment I wouldn't vote for her in the GE, let alone actively campaign for a Conservative Republican.

What could Obama have possibly done to warrant that?  Their voting records are similar.  Their policies are not that different.  He's been polite in the debates.  What has he done that's so unforgiveable that you'd want four more years of this neocon crap?  I'm flabbergasted.

I've never troll rated anyone.  It's not my style, but man...you take the cake


by thurst on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 09:06:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So.... (1.00 / 4)

Yes. If Obama is the nominee, I'm a Republican.


by JimR on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 09:42:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So.... (2.00 / 1)

Wow. On this liberal blue site, you would actually state you would vote for McBush rather than Obama. That is amazing to me. It's a free country, but it seems very counterproductive.


by Roberta on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 10:29:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

OK... (none / 0)

I put it to you again, JimR, then...why?

What on god's green earth has Obama done that would be so bad that you'd rather vote for a Republican???  I haven't even said that about Clinton and she friggin' said McCain would be a better choice than Obama.  I just don't get it, so enlighten me.  Why is he such a boogeyman?

Or is it just sour grapes b/c your preferred candidate didn't win?


by thurst on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 05:36:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I can save him some time. (none / 0)

This desire to burn bridges scares me.  As far as I can tell, you're either not a real democrat or you're way more like HRC than you realize.


by semiquaver on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 10:59:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No campaign quits (none / 0)

I read the article. Who are the sources?
Hmm...
Hillary/Obama08
by annefrank on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 05:17:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Reality strikes inside Camp Clinton: She can't (1.50 / 10)

Nice, Obama spinning the Politico with a little race baiting thrown in: "An African-American opponent and his backers would be told that, even though he won the contest with voters, the prize is going to someone else."

Good job retailing this filth.


by souvarine on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 03:41:01 PM EST

Reality is not "spinning." (1.90 / 11)

"Spinning" is what the Clinton camp is doing in continuing to peddle the fantasy that this is a horse race and she can win.


by Bob Johnson on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 03:51:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Reality is not "spinning." (none / 0)

The superdelegates will decide the nominee.
Why aren't they running to Obama?

Hillary/Obama08
by annefrank on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 05:21:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

We'll see. (2.00 / 2)

But I think one reason is out of respect for Hillary Clinton. I am sure most superdelegates would like her to make the decision instead of openly embarrassing her.


by Bob Johnson on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 05:23:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Reality is not "spinning." (none / 0)

I believe they are waiting on PA. PA is going to be post Wright. And probably post lots of other things the GOP is starting to toss his way.


No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!
by Ga6thDem on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 05:30:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Still sitting there with your fingers crossed. (none / 0)

"He must implode!"

(The last bastion of hope for a Hillary backer...)


by Bob Johnson on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 05:36:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Still sitting there with your fingers crossed. (2.00 / 1)

Looks like he's doing a pretty good job of shooting himself in the foot. He hasn't gotten out in front of any of the stuff. He ends up scrambling to answer attacks with a speech.

I like what Steve M. said above.

If Obama's so sure that he's got the nomination wrapped up why hasn't he quit blaming Hillary for all his mistakes. He doesn't sound like a winner, he sounds like a whiner with those kind of statements.

He's certainly not trying to get most Democrats on board his campaign. He's still playing divide and conquer. He isn't acting like he's winning, he's actually acting like he's losing.


No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!
by Ga6thDem on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 05:45:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

'Blaming Hillary for his mistakes?' (2.00 / 2)

Huh?

Look, his campaign is not going to unilaterally disarm when the Clinton camp has sworn it will throw the "kitchen sink" at him and continues to do so. Her campaign's attacks on him can help damage him for the general.

As a candidate, Obama has turned his focus to McCain. His campaign staff are the ones taking on Clinton.

If he didn't fight back, folks like you would label him "soft."

I love the irony in that.


by Bob Johnson on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 05:50:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 'Blaming Hillary for his mistakes?' (2.00 / 1)

Bob, he's already damaged severely for the general. And he did it to himself. Hillary had nothing to do with that. You see what I mean? You're blaming Hillary for damaging him when it has been his own foolishness that has damaged him.

Obama is doing a poor job aiming for McCain. He sounds just like Kerry lecturing McCain about the difference between the Sunni and Shia. That' a weak offense IMO.

So you agree that he doesn't have it wrapped up after all.


No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!
by Ga6thDem on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 06:23:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

'Damaged severely for the general' (2.00 / 3)

That's not what the latest polls are saying:

CBS Poll: Good Reviews For Obama Speech

Gallup Daily: Clinton Now at 47% to Obama's 45%

Clinton's recent surge among national Democrats appears to be receding.

...

It is possible that Obama's aggressive efforts to diffuse the Wright story, including a major speech about race on March 18, have been effective.

You said Obama was blaming Clinton. Where? When?

Anyway, as noted above, a Clinton backer's only hope is for Obama to implode. He's coming back from Wright. He is not, as you claim, "severely damaged for the general."

That is the same argument Clinton's folks are making to supers. Maybe she'll succeed using that logic.

But it doesn't look like the facts support you or her team.


by Bob Johnson on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 06:33:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 'Damaged severely for the general' (1.00 / 1)

All that speech did is pacify people like you. He still can't close the sale can he? And read about how the voters in PA reacted. They didn't like being lectured about race.

I'm not hoping for Obama to implode. I just don't want him to get the nomination because he can't win.

He is severly damaged. Do you think people are going to vote for a candidate that chose a racist church? Called a racist pastor "his spirtual mentor? It goes to judgement. He's repeatedly made poor judgements that are coming back to bite him.

Let me ask you this. If Kerry windsurfing killed his chances what do you think a ad featuring Obama praising Wright, even in the speech this week, with a continual loop of "g d america" will do? Do you really think that it'll have no effect? Do you think that the down ticket races will want to be associated with that?

If a decorated war hero could be portrayed as "anti american" what do you think they could do to a candidate that is a member of a radical church? A guy that doesn't wear a flag pin? A guy that doesn't say the pledge? Now, I know those last two are a stretch but combined with the truth and Michelles statement about not really being proud of her country before it is a deadly narrative that is defining Obama.


No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!
by Ga6thDem on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 08:24:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The knee-knocking fear of what the other side... (2.00 / 2)

... will say once again surfaces.

I am not afraid of what the Republicans will do or say. I suspect Obama and his team are not, either.

Obama is not John Kerry.

I guess we'll find out in November if you're right or if I'm right!


by Bob Johnson on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 08:26:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Fear of republicans... (2.00 / 1)

Years of triangulation mean that some democrats think they can only take on the republicans by becoming more like them? So you defeat the right by taking over their ground, their Rovian tactics until...

You become the enemy you've been waiting for.

This is what killed Hillary's campaign: she used Rovian tactics and salami sliced pork barrels and everyone knows where that led: eight  years of George W. And from all evidence, most people have had enough of it.


by brit on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 10:23:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

He can not close the deal? (2.00 / 1)

You realize Hillary losing to him, right?


-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 10:12:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He can not close the deal? (none / 0)

Why did he lose TX and OH then if he's such a great candidate? Why did he way outspend her and lose? Of course, I know Obam supporters think tha WY and ID are much, much more important states than OH. LOL.


No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!
by Ga6thDem on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 10:37:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

He won Texas (2.00 / 1)

where he got more delegates.

I love your insignificant states comment. It reminds me why I should not vote for your candidate.

As I recall, both TX and OH were supposed to be firewall states where she should have won by 20%.

Well my friend, she won OH by 10% and lost Texas.
So basically half of a firewall in OH and a smoldering ruin in Texas.


-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 10:41:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He won Texas (1.00 / 1)

Oh, that's right. According to Obama actual voters don't matter. LOL!

You guys were saying that Hillary was going to lose both states and be out on March 4th. Shows how much you guys know doesn't it? Obama got punked in both states. When people actually vote it seems he loses.


No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!
by Ga6thDem on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 10:50:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Again!!! (2.00 / 1)

he won the delegate count.


-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 10:51:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Again!!! (1.00 / 1)

Like I said, actual voters don't matter. Who won the popular vote in TX? Clinton did. And I like the fact that you are counting delegates not votes. It makes Obama's claim to the nomination much weaker. Thanks!


No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!
by Ga6thDem on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 11:28:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Thank you (2.00 / 1)

Of course at the convention its the delegates that get counted, but who cares about that.

Lets take popular cote in Texas then.
She won by ~4% gaining 4 delegates in a primary where 137 were allocated. I got to tell ya, thats not much of a firewall. Its kinda like a candle.

It also seems her supporters are not fired up enough to vote in the caucus.


-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 11:46:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

yeah (none / 0)

and Hillary endorsing McCa