WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28

by Jerome Armstrong, Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 10:56:02 AM EST

The first poll out of WV for the nomination, Rasmussen shows Clinton with a 55-27 percent lead over Obama. The primary is not until May 13th. This is the second poll I've seen recently that shows the "Economy/Jobs" issue going over 50 percent as the number one problem to solve. Here's some more:
Clinton is viewed favorably by 72% of West Virginia's Primary Voters, Obama by 53%.


By a 48% to 31% margin, the West Virginia voters believe Clinton will be the stronger general election candidate against John McCain. However, by a 47% to 35% margin, they believe Obama will win the nomination. Even 32% of Clinton voters expect Obama to be the Democratic nominee in 2008.


If Obama is nominated, just 42% of Clinton supporters say they are even somewhat likely to vote for him against McCain. Eighteen percent (18%) of Clinton voters say that they are Not Very Likely to vote for Obama and 35% say they are Not at All Likely to vote for Obama. On the other hand, if Clinton is nominated, 57% of Obama voters are at least somewhat likely to vote for the former First Lady.

Rasmussen has more on the state of the contest today.




Tags: 2008 nomination, WV (all tags)

Display:
Permalink :: 189 Comments :: Post a Comment


Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (2.00 / 1)

No surprise here; WV is very much like TN and AR, two of Hillary's biggest wins.  My only surprise is that the gap isn't wider.  I think if Obama can keep the gap at 20% it will be a moral victory.


by PittsburghPete on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 10:59:18 AM EST

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (2.00 / 1)

You are kidding right?

20% a moral victory...


by MediaFreeze on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:00:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (2.00 / 1)

Absolutely; Hillary lost 61-38 in MS and the media didn't bat an eye; I'm guessing the same will occur if Hillary beats Obama in WV by a similar margin.  This has always been Hillary's state, much as MS, GA, AL, SC and many others were always considered Obama's states.  

A win is always good, but she does have a lot of ground to make up; that string of 12 victories in Feb hurt her chances more than anything else.  Had she won a few states during that time, this campaign would be over.

As it is, only by winning 70-30 from here on out in all the states can she make up for lost time.


by PittsburghPete on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:12:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)


by Ryan Anderson on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:16:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

yeah, (2.00 / 1)

I remember when people here were saying that if Obama does not win this state or that state by more then 25 percent its a loss for him.

Feel weird when people say such things does not it?


-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:47:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (2.00 / 3)

What would a moral defeat look like?

The difference between Obama's big wins in MS and Wy and Hillary's wins in AR, TN and now apparently WV is that the latter are swing states.  Obama is not going to win WY or MS in the general election; Hillary would win AR and can win TN, WV and OH, etc.

If superdelegates must decide the nomination, they cannot nominate someone who is tanking down the stretch.  This has been Hillary's strategy and emphasis in the past month.  And she's right.

If Obama can't win among white voters, ne can't win in NOvember--it's that simple.  When Bill Clinton pointed out that Obama's SC win, like Jesse Jackson's, was based on racial identity voting, he was overstating the moment but his implication was right on.  Winning primaries, such as Missouri, with overwhleming support of black voters, is not a great augury for a general election.  Blacks won't vote for McCain-they may stay home if Obama is not the nominee.  But white voters are a two vote loss if they would have voted for Hillary in Novemeber and instead vote for McCain insterad of Obama.

This is why the Rev. Wright issue is so significant.  It turns Obama from a feel-good candidate for liberal whites into a reason to vote against him for centrist, conservative and resentful white voters.  Obama was smart to address the issue head-on but there's only so much he can do.

I think Obama is in big trouble and that's why he has to fight so hard to deny MI and FL voters a right to have their votes count, but that's not exactly an attractive position either, is it?  


by Thaddeus on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:28:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (2.00 / 1)

Thad: WTF man... you are going to be responsible for obamabots sucide packages in drones by bringing in reality checks to those lackeys.

They think Georgia will be blue too ROFL!


by jayatl on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:57:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (2.00 / 1)

Excellent post.  You hit everything on the head.  Obama is in serious trouble right now.  


by stefystef on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 02:55:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

Laughing so hard it hurts. Obama is toast. Don't you see the writing on the wall?


by JFK464 on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 12:11:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

Glad to see you take enjoyment in the misfortune of others.

not.


by Timetheos on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 01:21:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

Hope the super delegates are paying attention!


by Menemshasunset on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:02:22 AM EST

No. Then the next phase the fight... (2.00 / 1)

of seating the delegates as they. Either they're will be a revote or the delegates will be seated. The damage sustained by Obama from Wright and what it possibly means for the general election, might force the DNC's hand to seat the delegates, especially if Obama keeps falling in the polls nationwide. I imagine at the end of the day, Democrats in DC want a chance to actually win the election regardless of how much Clinton is hated.


It's an election, not an auction.
by cosbo on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:24:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

erm, (none / 0)

$800,000 returned to Norman Hsu.


-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:48:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

I've never been convinced on the popular vote arguement she wants to make.

The popular vote doesn't take into account all of the caucuses, which would not favor her.

Wouldn't it be "disenfranchising" those caucus voters if the supers overturned the delegate lead based upon popular vote, when caucus voters' popular vote isn't counted in the total?


by digdug on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:30:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

The popular vote doesn't take into account all of the caucuses, It most certainly does. There are a couple caucuses that haven't reported numbers yet, but they will and those numbers are tiny. That's part of Hillary's argument: Obama's wins are mostly in very small turnout caucuses.
by ColoradoGuy on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:36:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

Everything that I've heard so far is that the popular vote doesn't take into account caucuses.


by digdug on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 12:06:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

you are incorrect. you can use the google spreadsheet program.. see for yourself.

There are a couple of caucuses that do not report attendance (Iowa, maybe?) I do not know the reasoning for this. Maybe someone can pipe in.


by hctb on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 06:48:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Do you not know about caucus participation (2.00 / 1)

From USA Today:  the average level of voter participation in Super Tuesday's caucuses was 6% while the average level of voter participation in Super Tuesday's primaries was 29%.

That, and as Jay Cost analyzed, the Demcratic delegation rules give disproportionately favorable delegate numbers to smaller states that are normally Republican.  Obama has racked up a lot of delegates from a lot of states with proportionally lower voting.  I would also say that the failure of the Democratic rules to exclude Republicans and Independents (unlike many of the Republican primaries) have inflated his totals.


by lombard on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:38:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Do you not know about caucus participation (2.00 / 2)

Not to mention the caucus irregularities that undermine the legitimacy of the caucuses - no IDs checked, no birthdates checked, no addresses checked to see if the voter even lived in the right precinct, in some cases, no sign in at all.  It is likely that thousands of people voted who were ineligible to vote.  This information is just starting to come out with the fiascos of the Texas caucuses but the same thing happened in Iowa and Washington.  Further, the caucus delegates are awarded in part on the past voting performance of the precincts; they are not a function of voter preference alone.  Thus, not only are the caucuses undemocratic, their results are suspect.

Report caucus abuses:

For Iowa: IowaCaucusIrregularities@gmail.com
For Washington: WashingtonCaucusIrregularities@gmail.com
For all other caucuses: DemocraticCaucusIrregularities@gmail.com


by suskin on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 03:45:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

If wishes were horses, Obama supporters would not only ride, they'd all expect to win the KY Derby.

It's really quite simple.  Superdelegates vote however they want.  Clinton's deficit in pledged delegates may ber about 100 at the end of the primaries.  If so, superdelegates will make her the nominee.


by Thaddeus on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:30:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

You people are absolutely nuts.  I cannot wait until she drops out and this place goes back to some semblance of normalcy.  She is cooked, done, finito, over, hasta la vista, etc etc etc.  Keep deluding yourselves thought - you're therapists kids will thank you.


by Rockville Liberal on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 02:04:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

You offer no response to a reasonable analysis, just fuming.

And we're nuts?


by Thaddeus on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 02:41:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

That's not even close to right (none / 0)

She's only behind 700k without FL and MI. That's about 2 and a half percent. A big PA victory is worth half that or even conceivably more (a rough estimate of turnout in PA is 2.3 million, so a 20 point win is 400k+). She's now even in IN and NC with the momentum on her side, and WV and KY are going to be HUGE wins. She's better than an even bet to be ahead in popular vote without FL and MI by the WV primary. And she'll kill in Puerto Rico too. I find it so interesting that the Obamabots keep INSISTING that it's over, as if they're trying to convince themselves rather than anyone else. This ain't even CLOSE to over.
by ColoradoGuy on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:35:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That's not even close to right (none / 0)

2.3 million is almost the number that voted for Kerry in the GE (2.9 million, when he won the state with over 50% of the vote, so presumably that number includes a good deal of Independents who may not be eligible to vote in this primary) so if that's a realistic number it's gotta be pretty damn close to the ceiling.


by Ryan Anderson on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:41:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Exactly (none / 0)

They are trying to convince themselves and that is dangerous for them.

They WANT it to be over because, as I've argued for months, they aren't ready for a long struggle and can't handle the stress of possibly having victory snatched away at the last minute.

Fortunately for the Obama campaign, the candidate seems to have as much fortitude as HRC (and that means a boatload), and McCain (another boatload).  These are three candidates who can handle the stress of unknown outcomes and can continue to work amazingly hard on this campaign.

Compare with Bill Bradley (if you go back that far). He couldn't or wouldn't work this hard--to say nothing of Fred Thompson.  A campaign is grueling and tests many things, including the ability to resist the temptation to think, ah, it's over, I've won, I can rest.

The Obamabots can't resist the temptation (and maybe they don't have a lot of experience in prolonged struggle?).  


by Thaddeus on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 02:46:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (2.00 / 0)

It's too late. Without the Florida and Michigan revotes there is zero chance for Hillary to make up the popular vote difference the superdelegates would require to give her the nod.

It's over.

Not quite. The McClintons and their minions have 5 more months to attack Obama before the convention -- in conjunction with McBush.

One thing's for sure. I'll always laugh out loud from now on when MyDD calls for unity from Democrats. That bridge has been burned.


Hillary: "Her dishonesty is actually honest." -- yellowdem1129
by Kobi on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:45:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Unity? That bridge was burned (2.00 / 2)

by Obama and his supporters.  And it has nothing to do with DD.


by Misanthrope2 on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 12:00:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Unity? That bridge was burned (none / 0)

With at least one front thread a day attacking Obama, MyDD is doing McBush's knife work in behalf of the Clintons.

If Obama was trailing in delegates and votes and this site was trashing the nominee apparent in Hillary for him it would be the same thing.

Just don't complain if you get President McCain.


Hillary: "Her dishonesty is actually honest." -- yellowdem1129
by Kobi on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 12:17:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

If you think what happens on MyDD (none / 0)

has had much impact on the election thus far and has the power to result in a President McCain...

I'm not sure how to respond to that except to say that I believe you are overstating this blog's influence. And I mean no offense to the owners by that!

MyDD is reflecting a lot of the controversies of the primaries, it is not creating them.


by OtherLisa on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 12:35:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If you think what happens on MyDD (none / 0)

It's the Clintons who are helping McCain. Others are just minions who carry the mud for them.


Hillary: "Her dishonesty is actually honest." -- yellowdem1129
by Kobi on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 12:43:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If you think what happens on MyDD (none / 0)

Look, the Clintons did not create Reverend Wright. They aren't the ones flogging that story. I think it would be really helpful if some Obama supporters accepted that the candidate is responsible for some of his current problems. To believe otherwise is to engage in magical thinking.

The only chance Obama has of overcoming this is that it's happening now, and not further along in the election cycle. It may not be enough, but if this happened in the middle of the general election campaign, he'd be sunk for sure.


by OtherLisa on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 12:58:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If you think what happens on MyDD (none / 0)

Look....Clinton herself said McCain would be a better president than Obama. And her minions on this site have pushed the Wright smear like it's the poison apple that will kill Obama for her.

Of course people are free to say what they want about their own party's apparent nominee, but  I go back to my original point that they shouldn't complain about a President McCain in the future when they are helping him now.


Hillary: "Her dishonesty is actually honest." -- yellowdem1129
by Kobi on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 01:06:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If you think what happens on MyDD (none / 0)

"Look....Clinton herself said McCain would be a better president than Obama."

When, exactly, did she say that?

If you're talking about the 'commander in chief readiness' thing, she did not say that Obama didn't have the credentials - she said he'd have to speak for himself.


No way. No how. No McCain. . . . . . If you can ship a job to Bangalore India, you can ship a job to Flint Michigan.
by NJ Liberal on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 07:42:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If you think what happens on MyDD (none / 0)

When, exactly, did she say that?

I though everyone had heard about it.....

Clinton Says She and McCain Offer Experience, Obama Offers ...


Hillary: "Her dishonesty is actually honest." -- yellowdem1129
by Kobi on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 12:05:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

The evidence does not support your claim. (none / 0)

Clinton never said it.   And linking to Google is no proof at all.

Maybe the Obama supporters heard it from the voices in their heads or from the chips on their shoulders.

Just quote her words next time.  Or be exposed.


by Misanthrope2 on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 08:56:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The evidence does not support your claim. (none / 0)

You obviously have a reading comprehension problem. That's a fatal weakness for a blogger.


Hillary: "Her dishonesty is actually honest." -- yellowdem1129
by Kobi on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:17:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I will vote for the nominee. How about you? (none / 0)

Most of the blogosphere is full of pro-Obama propaganda, insults directed at Clinton supporters and Obama and nonsense from Obama supporters, like they will never vote for Clinton.

Young and naive seems like a spreading disease.

So, you will vote for the nominee even if it is Clinton, right?


by Misanthrope2 on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 08:51:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I will vote for the nominee. How about you? (none / 0)

So, you will vote for the nominee even if it is Clinton, right?

That isn't even a hypothetical question since Hillary mathematically can't be the nominee.

Will you be voting for the certain nominee -- Obama?


Hillary: "Her dishonesty is actually honest." -- yellowdem1129
by Kobi on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:13:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Wah wah wah (2.00 / 1)

It's politics.  If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.


by Thaddeus on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 02:47:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wah wah wah (none / 0)

Obama's proven he an take the heat and turn it into light.

I just don't want to hear you and MyDD wah-wahing when McCain uses Hillary's (and MyDD's) attacks against Obama next fall.


Hillary: "Her dishonesty is actually honest." -- yellowdem1129
by Kobi on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 02:54:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wah wah wah (none / 0)

Obama's proven he an take the heat and turn it into light.

That is snark, right? You caused a giggle fit with my morning coffee. Thanks!


by hctb on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 06:54:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wah wah wah (none / 0)

It isn't me, but virtually everyone else, even Hillary's supporters, calling Obama's speech one of the best ever.

Enjoy your coffee.


Hillary: "Her dishonesty is actually honest." -- yellowdem1129
by Kobi on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:15:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Wah wah wah (none / 0)

It's politics.  If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.


by Thaddeus on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 02:48:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

I know. Too bad for Obama. He'll enjoy being in the senate.

The superdelegates will not give the nomination to someone who attended a racist church for 20 years. He's radioactive. Get use to it.


by JFK464 on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 12:12:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

Guess what? If the situation continues in this vein, the credentials (and rules committee) committee floor challenge at the convention may produce results that you didn't count on.  Guarantee it.


by christinep on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 03:32:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

wtf does this mean? What are you guaranteeing?


by hctb on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 06:56:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (2.00 / 2)

I guess all the sunshine and hope hasn't yet penetrated over the Allegheny mountains.


by karajan72 on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:04:02 AM EST

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

Oh please. I travel quite regularly to West Virginia for business. It is one of the most racist places I've ever been. I am surprised there is not a bigger disparity.


by godemsin08 on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:10:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (2.00 / 1)

What are you saying?  that Clinton only wins states where there are lots of racists? That Clinton supporters are racists?


"It pays to be obvious, especially if you have a reputation for subtlety". Salvor Hardin
by Denny Crane on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:22:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

That's quite the straw man you've constructed.


by rfahey22 on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:25:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

It's an obvious implication of the previous post.


by Thaddeus on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:31:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (2.00 / 0)

But Thaddeus, you just wrote:

"If Obama can't win among white voters, ne can't win in NOvember--it's that simple.  When Bill Clinton pointed out that Obama's SC win, like Jesse Jackson's, was based on racial identity voting, he was overstating the moment but his implication was right on.  Winning primaries, such as Missouri, with overwhleming support of black voters, is not a great augury for a general election.  Blacks won't vote for McCain-they may stay home if Obama is not the nominee.  But white voters are a two vote loss if they would have voted for Hillary in Novemeber and instead vote for McCain insterad of Obama."

So which is it? On one hand you are repeating (and endorsing) Clinton's "implication" that racial identity voting was the difference in Obama's favor. On the other, saying that WV voters will likely do the same is no different.

Of course, you didn't say SC blacks are "racist" -- but isn't that the implication? Is there a difference between voting for one candidate because of his race -- and voting against one candidate because of his race?

Why is one implication offensive, and the other not?


Fight the Smears!
by Lettuce on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:41:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Ouch!!! (none / 0)


-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:49:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

It's not racism (none / 0)

for blacks to be more inclined to vote for a black candidate.  Not at all-they may respond to him more for a variety of reasons, including pride, but may also believe he will be more inclined to understand issues of concern to that community and act accordingly.

My point, and perhaps Bill Clinton's, is not about racism but statistics.  Overwhelming support from black voters can be determinative in some Dem primaries.  If 50% of the voters in a primary are black and 90% of them vote for Obama, that's 45% of the vote!  But in a general election, again for example in SC, blacks will be more like 20% of the electorate, and 90% of that is only 18%.  If non-black voters prefer Hillary (for whatever reasons)by 62-38, Obama will still win the primary, but if non-black voters prefer McCain by  
62-38 in the general (probably different people now in the 62 and 38 groups), McCain wins the general election.

It doesn't have to be racism, and probably wouldn't be in the vast majority of cases, that would lead non-black voters to support Clinton in one case, and McCain in the other.  For example, it could be just a perception that Obama doesn't have enough experience to be president.  But for black voters, that lack of experience may just be a lot less important than the variables that make Obama so attractive as a candidate.  And, like I said, that certainly isn't racism and I don't see how it could be construed as such.


by Thaddeus on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 03:02:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

I'm not constructing anything, I'm asking a serious question. I honestly don't understand what the point of the previous comment was.


"It pays to be obvious, especially if you have a reputation for subtlety". Salvor Hardin
by Denny Crane on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:41:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

Uh, it seems obvious to me: Clinton has an advantage in states with lots of racists.  WV is a pretty racist state, ergo, Clinton has an advantage.

Clear now?


by ChrisKaty on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 02:22:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

I think the correlation between racism and sexism might draw doubt on your theory. You are aware that we do not have compulsory voting, right? Racists are probably not so likely to find Hillary the great White Hope. I haven't seen any polls with the MRS--this would probably be a good addition to the discussion.


by hctb on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 06:59:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I knew this would be said (none / 0)

That the only reason that Obama is down in WV is because they are racist.  

My own feeling, being from the Pittsburgh region, is that people don't like to be talked down to.  Nobody likes to be told that they aren't smart enough or educated enough to know what they really need then be called racist because they have different views from people who hold Ivy League degrees.  That's what you get when you call people "Archie Bunker type" voters.

I think that people who are practical people, who work hard every day in blue collar jobs, will have an easier time identifying with someone who they have evaluated to understand where they are coming from and the problems that they have in their life and offer concrete plans to tackle those issues.

But no, I think your correct.  They're just a bunch of racist fools. snark


by lisadawn82 on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:26:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I knew this would be said (none / 0)

You don't think it's Obama attending a racist church? He's lack of experience, playing the race card, his flimsy record?


by JFK464 on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 12:14:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

No (1.00 / 1)

About his pastor, I really don't think that it's the racism.  I really think it's the anti-patriotism.  "Go* Dam* America" is rattling through everyone's head right now.


by lisadawn82 on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 01:21:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Ha, Ha, how true! (none / 0)

Having grown up in the Alleghany region, I can say that sunshine and hope almost never do (and we're OK with that)!


by lombard on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:42:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ha, Ha, how true! (2.00 / 1)

There's good reason for that!  

Where the sun comes up about ten in the morning
And the sun goes down about three in the day
And you fill your cup with whatever bitter brew you're drinking
And you spend your life just thinkin' of how to get away

- lyrics from You'll never leave Harlan alive.


by mgee on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 02:41:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

Interesting what being the front-runner does to a candidate. Too bad he didn't get this scrutiny earlier.


by souvarine on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:04:20 AM EST

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

It is too bad this didn't come earlier. If it had, she might have had a chance to win enough delegates to win the nomination. Her campaign was too slow to see the writing on the wall in Iowa.  She should have been Red to Obama's Andy Dufrain and given the, "Hope is a dangerous thing!" speech right after Iowa. Then all those subequent voters who bought all that hope BS would have made a more practical decision.

So the only questions now is, will she be wearing the yellow suit for her concession speech or will she pick out something a bit more mournful? Will all those brilliant, "Turn up the Heat" signs that served her so well be on the stage?


by bgbosox on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:35:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

What will she wear for her concession speech? (none / 0)

Add another comment to the long list of things that would never be said about a male candidate.  Yeesh.


by KevinCinNYC on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 03:21:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

hardcore trolling by you (none / 0)


by diplomatic on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 03:24:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

The media has failed us once again.  No surprise there.  This discussion about Rev. Wright should have taken place last December at the latest.


by karajan72 on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:05:39 AM EST

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (2.00 / 1)

discussion? We are not having a discussion...we are watching a massive smear campaign in action. Obama is asking us to have a discussion...we'll see if we actually do.

If YouTube videos of Rev. Wright take down Obama then fear and ignorance won...not Hillary.  


by JoeCoaster on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:10:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

Like the fear and ignorance over at the great orange sandbox? Where stenography of republican smear points about Clinton has been the norm?
David Schuster on MSNBC says the Clintons are pimping Chelsea and when Hillary reacts in outrage it's proof of her scripted calculating ways. Get real.
by usedmeat on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:38:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

Oh come on.  The fault is Obama's.  It was a huge political mistake not to address his church issues much earlier.


by Thaddeus on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:32:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

"Oh come on.  The fault is Obama's.  It was a huge political mistake not to address his church issues much earlier."

I believe that no matter when he addressed this issue, the videos are so toxic to so many Americans that it would have tanked him. Only by completely disassociating himself from Wright could he possibly have pulled this out, and recovered. And I venture to think that even if he had, it might very well have not been enough. All people would associate with Barack Obama is that he sat for 20 years in his church listening to "God D@#n America!"

I think Americans might have been ready to vote for Barack Obama, but they aren't ready to vote for Jeremiah Wright.


by 07rescue on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:51:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Another reason why (2.00 / 1)

I wish Obama had waited to make his run. If he'd waited, Wright would have been long retired and it would have been much easier for Obama to disassociate himself from the pastor without having to totally repudiate him. He would have had more than a full Senate term under his belt. He could have actually chaired some meetings of his committee (and I don't mean that as snark).

If I were going to assign one of the 7 Deadly Sins to Obama, it would be pride. He wasn't ready for this so soon. If he'd waited, he could have had it all.


by OtherLisa on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 12:39:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

I hope WV can make up that 170 pledged delegate difference ... we are at the process point, people.  I still dont think she can get within a hundred.  


'The only people for me are the mad ones, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing ...'
by stryan on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:06:36 AM EST

Rasmussen new poll GE: (2.00 / 1)

Today Rasmussen Poll GE match-up's:

McCain 51
Clinton 41

McCain 49
Obama 42

The fight to the nomination has hurt both candidates in their race agfainst McCain.

The Wright controversy I believe has not only hurt Obama but also Clinton.


by BDM on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:10:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rasmussen new poll GE: (none / 0)

That's why we need to focus on Congress, and write off the presidential election this year.

And in future elections, the Democrats have to come up with better candidates.  There's no way around this.


by mikelow1885 on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:28:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rasmussen new poll GE: (2.00 / 2)

I guarantee we'll never again win the presidency if we throw in the towel in March.  Suck it up.


by rfahey22 on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:30:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rasmussen new poll GE: (2.00 / 1)

Well, there's something we agree upon.


by InigoMontoya on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:39:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rasmussen new poll GE: (none / 0)

People, Dukakis was leading Bush by double digits in the summer before the '88 election.  Why are we even looking at the polls right now?  It's eight months before the election, for pete's sake!  McCain was a dead man six months ago.  


by sbbonerad on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 12:53:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rasmussen new poll GE: (2.00 / 1)

What are you talking about? Both Clinton and Obama are exceptional candidates. Look at the crowds, the votes, the enthusiasm.

What more could you want from an election then the debate between Hillary, Obama and Edwards? They were great, any one of them would wipe the floor with whatever a Republican would do for four or eight years.

Better candidates? You've got to get out of the 24-hour news cycle, dude.


Fight the Smears!
by Lettuce on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:43:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Neither are excellent; both are centrist. (none / 0)

Clinton was pro-war, pro-bankruptcy, pro-tax cuts for the rich and pro-NAFTA.

Obama is the same, and avoids tough issues like a cowardly politician.  And he attacks from the right.

The excellent candidates have left the race.

That said, I will still vote for either as the lesser of the GE evils.


by Misanthrope2 on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 12:50:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rasmussen new poll GE: (none / 0)

"The Wright controversy I believe has not only hurt Obama but also Clinton.:

It has hurt all Democratic candidates down the line, and has really damaged the Democratic "brand" with swing and young voters.


by 07rescue on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:53:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

No evidence of that. (none / 0)

Please supply any evidence that anybody but Obama was hurt by Rev. Wright.  I think it has helped Clinton, as shown by the Rasmussen polls above and by the rise in polled negatives of Obama.  Clinton's negatives are the same.  There is no evidence that I know of that it has hurt Democrats in down ticket races, but I am open to review anything you cite.

Or maybe you will not cite anything at all to support your statement.


by Misanthrope2 on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 12:53:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rasmussen new poll GE: (none / 0)

I really don't care about these numbers. We are not in general election mode yet. Remember President Kerry, President Dean, President Perot, President Dukkais, President Mondale. Remember them?


Restore America's Strength.
by RJEvans on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 01:49:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

I think close to a hundred is good enough as it would indicate that Obama is trending downward and would look like a loser for November.  If she is close to a hundred deficit in pledged delegates, she'll be down only fifty in delegates overall, given her current lead among supers.

A fifty delegate lead won't hold for Obama, and might affect the decsion of the Rules Committee also on sone sort of deal re Michigan and Florida.


by Thaddeus on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 03:06:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

It's great news to hear that so many "democrats" are ready to vote for John "stay in Iraq for 100 years and the economy isn't really my strong suit" McCain over Obama if he's the nominee.  

That's some ugly stuff, as far as I'm concerned.  


by HSTruman on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:10:56 AM EST

Double standard (2.00 / 1)

"If Obama is nominated, just 42% of Clinton supporters say they are even somewhat likely to vote for him against McCain. Eighteen percent (18%) of Clinton voters say that they are Not Very Likely to vote for Obama and 35% say they are Not at All Likely to vote for Obama. On the other hand, if Clinton is nominated, 57% of Obama voters are at least somewhat likely to vote for the former First Lady."

Where's all that righteous talk I have been hearing from Clinton supporters - that either of the Democratic candidates is miles better than McCain, and that if Obama voters say they wouldn't vote for HRC in the general they're childish, self-absorbed and a whole lot worse?

To be honest, those comments were on target - and it's one reason I've never said I wouldn't support HRC in the general.  I would.  She's much better than McCain.  

I would hope that Clinton supporters remember that he's a hell of a lot better than McCain as well.

Jerome?  


by TL on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:13:32 AM EST

You will now hear the deafening (none / 0)

chirping of crickets.


-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:51:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Double standard (none / 0)

"Where's all that righteous talk I have been hearing from Clinton supporters - that either of the Democratic candidates is miles better than McCain, and that if Obama voters say they wouldn't vote for HRC in the general they're childish, self-absorbed and a whole lot worse?"

Likely most of the people here would still say that. But most of the remonstrations you are talking about were before the Reverend Wright debacle.

There will be a very sizable "Anybody but Obama" vote among Democrats now, and they will hold their noses and vote for McCain or vote for Nader.


by 07rescue on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:56:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Double standard (none / 0)

I have always said that I will support the nominee. So have most Clinton supporters in these forums. But again - this blog is not reflective of the larger electorate. One of HRC's strengths is among Reagan Democratcs - they do not reliably vote Democratic in presidential elections but they'd vote for her. They trust the Clinton "brand."

But they are exactly the sort of voters who are going to see the Wright videos and vote for McCain. I would argue that even more than the racial element, it's the "god damn America" sentiments that will sink Obama - the patriotism problem. Most of these voters won't see remarks like that in a cultural or historical context. They are just going to see their country attacked, and react that way.


by OtherLisa on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 12:44:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Double standard (none / 0)

There will be a very sizable "Anybody but Obama" vote among Democrats now

I just don't get what he's done to stir up that level of animosity.  

I can see thinking Wright hurts his chances in the GE -- I don't happen to particularly agree and think his positives strongly outweigh that baggage, but at least it's an intellectually honest point of view.  But if Obama leads in delegates, popular vote, and states won...what's there to be so bitter about?  He's been notably less negative than Clinton in this Primary, at least.

If Hillary takes the nomination, on the other hand, it will almost surely be tainted with the feeling that she "stole" it, given that she will surely trail in pledged delegates.  She's been extremely hostile and damaging on occasion ("shame on you!", McCain-over-Obama for CiC, etc), and is blatantly intellectually dishonest about the MI and FL Primaries.

I can see people being very very resentful about a Clinton nomination.  But I honestly don't see why Clinton supporters would be resentful of an Obama nomination.  I can see being disappointed, and having to swallow a bitter pill which is never fun.  But "anyone but Obama"?  I don't get it.


by ChrisKaty on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 02:30:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The Clintons would campaign for him (none / 0)

If asked.  And he's be cra-a-a-a-zy not to ask.


by Trickster on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 02:06:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Oh, you mean me? (none / 0)

OF COURSE I WILL SUPPORT THE DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE!!!

I will work my tail off for the Democratic nominee. ANY Democrat would be better than ANY Republican in the White House.

OK?


No way. No how. No McCain. . . . . . If you can ship a job to Bangalore India, you can ship a job to Flint Michigan.
by NJ Liberal on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 08:02:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (2.00 / 1)

A terrible state for Obama, composed of nothing but those Appalachian counties he's typically lost by 40 points or more in Ohio and Virginia.  Not a bad idea for him to give a high profile speech on the economy there today.  


by Ryan Anderson on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:14:11 AM EST

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

This is truly an amazing poll.  I fully expect Clinton to approach 70% in this state.


What would LBJ do?
by Socks The Cat on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:15:39 AM EST

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

70 is a stretch for any candidate right now, even HRC in West Virginia.  These numbers are dropping at a bad time for Obama.  

Now 60, maybe even 65, might be feasible for her, but even that I wouldn't bet on.  


First and Foremost: A Democrat in the White House
by mascho on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:19:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

So I guess this state will count, right, even though it won't turn blue in November?


by rfahey22 on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:18:21 AM EST

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (2.00 / 1)

SUSA has it going blue for Hillary, which strikes me as a real possibility.  Up until 2000 this was a Democratic stronghold, it could conceivably return to at least swing state status.  Unfortunately, Obama has a real and probably enduring problem with this electorate, especially after the Wright controversy and all.


by Ryan Anderson on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:20:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

Well, Obama also wins a number of states that traditionally are not blue, according to SUSA.  Of course, that has been met with retorts around here that those states "obviously" won't flip to our side in the general.


by rfahey22 on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:24:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (2.00 / 1)

Hey man, I agree with you there.  I'm from Nebraska's second district and I absolutely believe Obama can win our electoral vote (as well as potentially helping us win the Senate race and our House seat).  But we have to admit that both candidates have their own seperate (if unequal) strengths electorally.  Obama is a lot stronger in the West and the Plains, Hillary is a lot stronger in Appalachia and the South.  That means Hillary will probably win states that Obama can not, including WV and AR, even while Obama will put into play states that Hillary can not like Nebraska.  


by Ryan Anderson on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:29:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (2.00 / 1)

True enough.  It would be amazing if we could part of Nebraska.


by rfahey22 on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:31:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

Oh? Which would those be, and how many electoral votes do they represent? Obama folks seem to be somewhat confused as to how we elect presidents. First, it's winner take all within states (it doesn't matter if he makes it closer than Clinton would in Mississippi); and Second, it's not "whoever takes the most states wins". It doesn't matter really if he wins Colorado (which he probably won't, btw) if he also loses Ohio.
by ColoradoGuy on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:41:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

Your argument is ironic since the topic of this diary is the electoral goldmine known as West Virginia.


by rfahey22 on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:43:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (2.00 / 0)

If WV had gone for Gore, Florida wouldn't've have mattered in 2000.  But, sure - write us off.  We're all racists anyway!


by mgee on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:52:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

That wasn't my point.  It was in direct response to the person above me.  I'm not writing off any state, I just wanted to point out the double standard that exists when certain people write off certain states but do not apply that same criteria to states that they should win.


by rfahey22 on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:54:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

That line of argument from Obama supporters is seriously tired.

1. Mark Penn is dumb and said something stupid.  Newsflash!

2. Clinton should've stepped up her game in the caucus states after Iowa.

3. Clinton (and her supporters) do not believe that Obama's states are "unimportant."

4. Arguments about Clinton's electability based on her popularity in swing states are meant to counter the long-standing argument from Obama supporters that he is "more electable."  Both candidates have strengths and weaknesses.  Clinton supporters push her strengths and his weaknesses.  Obama supporters push his strengths and her weaknesses.

5. Some Obama supporters have, lately: 1. complained that "certain" states are unimportant; while 2. concern trolling about how Clinton should drop out before quite a number of states vote, which pretty much undercuts any complaints y'all have about stupid Mark Penn's stupid remarks.

6. Clinton and Obama have the right and opportunity to make their respective cases to their respective constituencies, but the rest of us should probably be a little more skeptical.

7. Admittedly, I support Clinton.  I am honestly tired of the "unimportant states" complaint from Obama supporters, especially when y'all turn around and call me and my neighbors: 1. unimportant and 2. racist.  Stereotyping is deeply negative and fraught with danger, especially when you use it to paint negative pictures of broad swathes of the country.  It's as true when you stereotype poor whites in Appalachia as when you stereotype poor blacks in New York City.  

8. You probably didn't deserve the rest of the rant, but there it is.  

9. Though I would really appreciate it if y'all would drop the "unimportant states" thing.  I can't tell if you REALLY mean it, but even if you, individually, have not given in to a double-standard, there's one in your community and it's pretty unreasonable.


by mgee on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 12:20:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Ooops, but - (none / 0)

having re-read the person to whom you were responding, I do see your point.  :)


by mgee on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 12:22:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

Have you ever been to WVa?  Do you know anything about the state?

Clinton can win WVa.  West Virginia went for Carter in 1980 and for Dukakis in 1988.  It also went comfortably for Bill Clinton twice.  


by mgee on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:31:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

WV is not a blue state anymore than Georgia used to be a blue state. I hate the term "blue state." But who knows, in Bush's america, maybe the country is blue states.

You guys seem to think this stuff happens in a vaccuum. McCain is a TERRIBLE candidate. The dem nominee will be the president. Look at the economic data, look at the polls over the war. A retarded wombat could figure out how to tie McCain to Bush effectively.


Fight the Smears!
by Lettuce on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:47:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

I know this stuff doesn't happen in a vaccuum. I also suspect that I know WV better than you do. Gore lost WV because the NRA had a straight-forward push campaign against Gore, and it worked.  Note: the UMWA and coal operators were also probably united in fearing what Gore would do to the coal industry.  Fortunately, the NRA lacks the clout it had 8 years ago, and the war and/or terrorism/patriotism are no longer and fortunately for our party and our planet, all three candidates are a 'threat' to the coal industry, and all three will doubtlessly implement some sort of carbon tax.  So, McCain has none of the electoral advantages that Bush had.

WV is not and never was Georgia, and if you are willing to make the comparison, you clearly know nothing about the Mtn State.  It's a combination of the Ohio rust-belt and rural Appalachia, and - as such - a swing region with a history of voting reliably Democratic.  WV has been in the Republican column for two elections, and can be taken back if Clinton is the nominee.  I get that Obama has other pickups, perhaps, that Clinton won't manage, but denying Clinton's electoral strengths is as foolish and short-sighted as denying Obama's electoral strengths is.  


by mgee on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 12:00:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

To clarify: I meant that, as an issue, the war no longer favors the Republicans.  Even in WV, we want out military out of Iraq.


by mgee on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 12:03:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (2.00 / 1)

Hey, they voted for Dukakis.  I wouldn't write this state off if Hillary somehow became the nominee, it's a an old-fashioned New Deal stronghold that still loves its local Democrats.


by Ryan Anderson on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:32:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Not only did they vote for Dukakis (none / 0)

They voted once for Adlai Stevenson.


by lombard on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:46:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

Cheers to you.

We even have a small town named after Eleanor Roosevelt, Eleanor, West Virginia.


by mgee on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:49:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

What a strange comment. I'm not even sure what you mean.
by ColoradoGuy on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:43:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Not if Obama's the nominee! (none / 0)


by Thaddeus on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:33:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

It won't? (none / 0)

WV is a swing state.  Clinton won it twice, by double-digits both times, and even Dukakis took it in '88.  Gore lost by 5% and Kerry by 13% because Bush managed to rally the coal-mining unions on environmental issues.  

The 13-point loss in '04 is an historical anomaly.  WV can easily go either way.


by Trickster on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 02:13:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

HRC will win WV, no doubt, if the race is still going on then. The demographics are absolutely tailor made for her. But can she won't win by as much as Obama has in states whose demographics are perfect for him, like MN, CO, WA.  


by grover738 on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:19:41 AM EST

Re:RASMUSSEN POLL TODAY (none / 0)

Obama 46
Clinton 43

Clinton loses to McCain by 10 pts.

She only gets 55% OF AA VOTERS in this match up.


by BDM on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:23:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re:RASMUSSEN POLL TODAY (none / 0)

You've got to figure that 55% will go up if it's Clinton-McCain. Maybe not to where it once would have been, but better than 55%.


by grover738 on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:37:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re:RASMUSSEN POLL TODAY (none / 0)

The 55% number just reflects reluctance of African American voters to commit to a vote for pollsters this early.

If Clinton won the nomination fair and square with a plurality of pledged delegates, way more than 55% of African Americans would come over and push her over the top.  Even after beating Obama, she'd win 90% of that demographic.

If she were to win by persuading unpledged, unaccountable delegates to steal the nomination from Obama she'd get about 55% total and go down in flames.

That's just one more reason why the pledged delegates are the important ones this year.


Read Brian's Utah Weblog
by Brian Watkins on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 12:06:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (1.00 / 1)

Jerome-

Those bogus numbers (x percent of Clinton supporters won't vote for Obama) are not convincing.

Any Democrat who votes for McCain can go fuck themselves (in the words of Cheney).


by Bob Beard on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:21:04 AM EST

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (2.00 / 1)

For the longest time, Obama supporters have been saying - as has Obama himself - that Hillary's supporters would vote for him in the GE, but that his couldn't be counted on for her. Now that it looks to be opposite that, it's funny how the Obama supporters now expect Hillary supporters to get in line to push him over the finish line. Sorry, but I'll go back to voting third party rather than back the third losing Dem candidate in a row, which is what he'd be at this point.

Between now and November, there's still way too much we don't know about this guy to justify the belief that the Wright crisis is the worst he'll weather. If the GOP could get enough votes to overcome a genuine war hero, I have faith enough they'll scare up enough white and hispanic votes to overcome a black candidate with questionable judgement.


by SoCalHillMan on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:39:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (1.83 / 6)

Turncoats from either camp are still traitors to the Democratic Party.  Those who vote third party might as well vote for McCain - it will have the same effect and at least they'll back someone with a shot at winning.


by rfahey22 on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:42:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

I have voted for the Democratic nominee since Jimmy Carter, but after two stolen elections, I refuse to vote for a candidate who's going to take down the party the third cycle in a row when we could have avoided this mess any number of ways long before this.

The ONLY reason I feel strongly for Hillary is that I believe she's the best Dem able to take the fight to the GOP and survive. I never had that confidence with any of the other candidates. The fact she's still going only underscores my belief I picked the right horse.

If it takes a streetfight for her to win the nomination at the convention, so be it. At least I like our chances better then come November.


by SoCalHillMan on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:54:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Not me (2.00 / 2)

I'm a Hillary supporter but I'm going to be voting for the candidate with the D after their name even if it is Obama.  I will not be participate in tearing down my party in the name of purity or hate. I absolutely refuse to allow McCain and the Republican machine keep on trashing the United States.

I'm sure that others, like myself, feel very emotional about their candidates right now but after the convention we're going to have to come together as a team to kick some R butt.  


by lisadawn82 on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:49:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not me (none / 0)

RIGHT ON!


by stefystef on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 12:43:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

For a long time, Obama and Clinton supporters have been talking out of their asses.

Both will, with varying amounts of enthusiasm, largely vote for the Dem nominee, whomever it is. The country is in a bigger mess than any time since 1929. McCain could run on a "everyone gets to date my daughter" platform, and only marginally get the male vote over the dem nominee.

Because as cute as Meghan is, and as attractive as McCain may have seemed in 2000, no majoriy is going to vote for a third Bush term.


Fight the Smears!
by Lettuce on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:50:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

There was one previous poll of WV. (2.00 / 2)

- one conducted by a local polling group, not a national research firm, that showed Clinton with a 48-24 lead, with 28% undecided.  

Clinton held a town hall meeting in Charleston in the morning at Capital High School, and followed with a round-table meeting with veterans at the American Legion hall in Huntington in the late afternoon.  WV has one of the highest per capita rates of service in the entire country, and she made note of that.  She also picked up a new WV super delegate yesterday - Pat Maroney, a labor lawyer.  

Her promise to get the US out of Iraq got the biggest cheers at both venues, but at the town hall meeting, she really connected with the crowd when she talked about the importance of caregivers in our lives.  An older man stood up and told Clinton that he suffers from Alzheimer's and that his wife sometimes has difficulty caring for him.  It was a very moving exchange.

Obama is appearing in Charleston and Beckley today, too.  WSAZ television has a live feed of his Charleston speech.  It took me a little while to actually find the link on their cluttered home page, but it's below the "Severe Weather Alert" and above the story about the guy who drowned in Gallia County & called "Live Stream Alert."  


by mgee on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:29:11 AM EST

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

http://rasmussenreports.com/public_conte nt/politics/election_20082/2008_presiden tial_election/daily_presidential_trackin g_poll

Rasmussen a few minutes ago.  The negatives for the two Democrats, well, take a look.


by mady on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:38:46 AM EST

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

Yikes.


by rfahey22 on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:40:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (2.00 / 1)

The sad fact is that racial bigotry is alive and well in this country, and Obama's candidacy was bound to bring it out in the open.  You'll find it concentrated especially in the South, and among older working-class whites in places like Ohio and Indiana and Pennsylvania.  Of course, it's especially concentrated in the Republican Party, which got where it is today by accentuating and exploiting racial bigotry.  But it exists among a lot of older 'Reagan Democrats' too, who listen to a lot of right-wing hate radio and who, as Obama pointed out, resent racial-balance initiatives like affirmative action and busing.  Those people were never going to vote for a black candidate, no matter how moderate he may be and no matter how well he articulates their economic distress.  

I suspect we're going to come out of this election aware of the fact that there was a lot of substance in Jeremiah Wright's castigation of this nation for its racism.


by dricey on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:39:20 AM EST

Yes, we knew white racism existed (none / 0)

But what this campaign has brought out is the virulence of black racism that has normally been swept under the table.


by lombard on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:51:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

Yes, bigotry is out in the open -- and in some churchs. Don't let the media hoodwink you. Obama is radioactive now. He has 0 chance of winning a general election. His associations with racists and terrorist won't fly. There's no chance the superdelegates will give him the nomination.

Can you say: RadioAcive?


by JFK464 on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 12:19:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

You know that is such a pathetic scapegoat. In areas where white vote overwhelmingly for Clinton it has to be because of racism right. But even in Arkansas Hillary didn't win the white vote 8 to 1 or 9 to 1, which is what Obama is winning the black vote by in just about every state. I think his problem with white voters in states like OH, PA and WV have more a function of his failure to connect with working class and lower income voters. They don't want to hear about a new kind of politics, they want solutions to help them with their problems. Wright is probably a concern for some of them, but that doesn't make them racist.

Now I won't denie there are some Democrats who won't vote for him just because he is black, but that is not the larger issue he has with most of these voters.


by Christopher Lib on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 01:06:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

Do you actually know that it is not a "winner take all" thing with these contests?
Do you???
So get your head out of your ars and get with the facts.
Hillary is going home to Bill.
by lindab on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:39:41 AM EST

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

And Barack is going home to Michelle, one way or the other.

No matter how much Obamaniacs insist Hillary can't win the nomination, the plain facts demonstrate otherwise.


by Jason O on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:44:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

and those facts are?


Fight the Smears!
by Lettuce on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:51:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

Neither candidate has enough delegates to win.

You can predict what the outcome of a brokered convention will be, but it's just a prediction of what WILL happen in the future, not a description of what already has.

If Obama loses Pennsylvania by twenty points, and if he goes on to lose Indiana, North Carolina, and West Virginia, which are all possibilities, a consensus should start to emerge that it would be absolutely suicidal to nominate a candidate who is in total free fall, who is electorally radioactive because of the Wright controversy and who is no longer viable as a presidential candidate in the general election.


by Jason O on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 12:32:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

Yes home to Michelle at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

"Turn Up The Heat!!"


by bgbosox on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:54:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

Charming.


"It pays to be obvious, especially if you have a reputation for subtlety". Salvor Hardin
by Denny Crane on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:53:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Ways out of this mess (none / 0)

The country will not make Barack Obama commander in chief. If Jeremiah Wright didn't exist, maybe, but now the reality is that whoever Obama would pick as a running mate, the GOP will essentially be able to run against an Obama/Wright ticket, and McCain will get 320 electoral votes.

The question is, do we let the party go down with the sinking ship that is the Obama campaign? Obama seems willing to sacrifice the party's chances for his own interests; he himself ADMITS that he's at a distinct disadvantage vis-a-vis more "conventional" candidates. Do we let him do this?

As I see it there are two things the party can do to save our chances in November. First, don't nominate the free-falling Obama; this is a necessary condition for victory. This may alienate a lot of black voters. It may be necessary to put Obama on the ticket in the VP slot to mitigate this, with the hope that the Jeremiah Wright controversy will be dampened if Obama's not at the top of the ticket.

Or: both candidates are weak and getting weaker by the day. Scrap them both, nominate a compromise candidate. Al Gore seems like the obvious candidate.


by Jason O on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:42:02 AM EST

Re: Ways out of this mess (none / 0)

You know, I'm beginning to think more and more along these lines, too. But I really don't see any mechanism to do it. Perhaps if FL and MI are obviously decisive, the Credentials Committee splits down the middle and the full convention has a melt-down. Then, maybe just maybe, someone can broker a compromise to go with Gore. But I have no idea who that someone might be.
by ColoradoGuy on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:46:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ways out of this mess (none / 0)

Al Gore was smart to sit out the last two elections and I doubt he will be amenable to a draft.
Go over to www.dailyhowler.com and read how the Old Media has shaped your perceptions of the democratic Party presidential candidates since the 1990's. Recommended read for the Koskidz.
by usedmeat on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:53:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (2.00 / 0)

You do know that SD can vote for whomever they want, and that if voting goes past the first round of balloting (which is more than likely), even the pledged delegates are free to vote for whom they want.

I wouldn't be so sure Obama wins under this scenario, which is all totally according to the rules for the Democratic nomination.


by SoCalHillMan on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:44:21 AM EST

RSomuche: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

So much for party unity.  Do Clinton supporters understand what a McCain presidency could mean?  I think it's telling that the Obama camp, constantly labled as being more independent and less core-Democratic, is the group more willing to put a Democrat in office even if it isn't their first choice.  I think this fact points to the type of campaign each candidate has run.  
Also a poll like this seems to me to be clearly designed to bring Obama's electability into question.  As he said in his speech, Obama's won some of the whitest states in the nation, and as you can see by all accounts he still holds a solid delegate lead and popular vote lead that will be difficult for Hillary to overcome even with the help of the right and Rev. Wright.
We are the change we've been waiting for.
by jlars on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:45:19 AM EST

Re: RSomuche: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

I'm voting for McCain if Obama get the nomination, the chances of which are fading daily.

I don't accept hoodwinking, okey-do, Goddamn America racial politics. It's un-American.

The Democratic party and the country should pay for Obama's Southern strategy.

But Obama's not getting the nomination.

He's radioactive now. Polls will continue to drop. He'll be trailing McCain by double digits in a week.


by JFK464 on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 12:22:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: RSomuche: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

You are not a Democrat. Period. You're a Freeper troll.


by elrod on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 12:43:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: RSomuche: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

No. I've spent 20 years working on progressives causes and for progressive candidates. I worked on Bob Kerrey's campaign in NH in '91, Bill Clinton's in '92. Obama's racial dog-whistle ('hoodwink') and his related association with a hate church has turned me from an admirer of the man to outright opponent. He's the opposite of unity.

http://noratings.blogspot.com/


by JFK464 on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 01:25:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

The polls for Obama are horrific if Obama is the nominee Massachusetts is now in play for McCain according to Rasmussenreports they also have switched NH over to McCain,he is now losing NJ.Penn,OH,Maine,Virginia,W.Virgina,N.Ca rolina,Colorado,Missouri,Indiana,Michiga n,N.Mexico,S.Dakota if anyone can name a way he can win without the Northeast,the South and the Southwest,half the Midwest please let me know.


I've fallen and I can get up
by grab1 on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 11:56:55 AM EST

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

People are yapping and yucking. Obama has endured his toughest few days ever and he has remained calm and rational in this crisis.
It is a reflection of how he would govern as POTUS.

Secondly, after enduring this horrendous week. I would have expected his polls to take a nosedive but it hasn't.
He seems to have reached a floor on this at around 41-42% and he will go up again.


by ListenNOW on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 12:00:19 PM EST

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

"remained calm and rational"

He defended his involvement with an anti-American racist church. Calm? He's "shaken" by being discovered after playing the hoodwink game. Shameful.

Don't worry. He's radioactive now and has 0 chance of being president.

At least he's calm.


by JFK464 on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 12:26:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

"I could hardly breathe. Gulping for air, I started crying and yelling."

Hillary Clinton's reaction when he woke her up in the middle of night and informed her of his "inappropriate intimacy" according to her book "Living History".

Sounds like a real cool customer in a crisis! Will she need smelling salts if North Korea crosses the DMZ?


by bgbosox on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 12:48:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

I could not agree more. The fact that he has remained cool and calm in the face of every challenge is a very reassuring. You know you will get a thoughtful and measured reaction. I think you can contrast this to a variety of responses Hillary has demonstrated in the last three months when things looked difficult for her and her back was against the wall.

1) Tears in NH because she cares so much.

2) Bitter sarcasm in the Columbus debate. "need a pillow?"

3) Enraged over the NAFTA mailer "Shame on you Barack Obama!! Meet me in OHIO!"

4) Warm and gracious in Texas debate.

Either these reactions are calculating which is often the conventional wisdom regarding her personality or even worse she reacts with unchecked emotion and we don't know how she will respond to a crisis.

How do you spin this into, "I am the one you want at 3AM.


by bgbosox on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 12:37:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

The man is "shaken" to be discovered as a member of a hate church. He's radioactive now.


by JFK464 on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 01:33:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

Just because your candidate is disingenuous, does not mean that you have to be as well. He said he was, "shaken up a little bit" and refocused him on the difficult task before him. Your candidate was shocked that after so many years of fidelity, he finally gave in to temptation and her reaction was to turn into a lifetime movie complete with an oxygen tank to get her to breathe.

Tell me, will she be wearing the yellow suit when she gives her concession speech?


by bgbosox on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 01:57:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

Reading this thread has been pretty depressing.  Thanks y'all.


by ejintx on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 12:00:41 PM EST

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

LOL, I have to agree with you. Every diary on this site devolves to the same crap being rehashed over and over and over.

This whole thing reminds me of the original Star Trek episode where the two half-white, half-black humanoid aliens are locked in an eternal struggle until the end of time. The only difference between the two being that one was black on the left side while the other, though seemingly identical, was white on the left side.

Anyone see any correlation to this primary?

The fact that the convention is not for several months is unmerciful, a trick played on us by the "gods" so they can watch us relentlessly squabble and throw crap at each other like bored monkeys. And where does the squabbling get us? Are minds being here? Not when all we hear is extreme fanboyism. If we can't walk into that booth in November and hit the "D" key then we are totally screwed as a nation.

Anyone want to talk about something else besides this crap? Maybe a new hobby they've picked up?


by desertjedi on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 06:39:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

I like traveling, for example!  I'm looking to go to Arches National Park in June sometime...

Yeah, they already started back at it...sad times.


by ejintx on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 06:47:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

What are the dates on this poll?


by poserM on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 12:02:58 PM EST

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

I do believe however that they need to find a way to join together on a ticket. As quickly as possible.


by ListenNOW on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 12:03:01 PM EST

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (2.00 / 1)

As an Obama supporter, even if I feel Clinton stole this election from Obama in some way, I would still vote for her. I'm a Democrat first, and at the end of the day the stakes are too high to vote McCain, Nader or not at all.

I hope when this thing is over, the emotions can cool and Democrats from both sides can start thinking rationally about this whole thing.


Voting for John McCain is not God bless America.
by SFValues on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 12:07:13 PM EST

Not unexpected (2.00 / 2)

Read my diary on Obama and West Virginia and Appalachia in general here.

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/3/20/285/ 15584

I suppose, since it wasn't a "hit" diary of any sort, nobody noticed...

Anyway, race is only part of the equation. A bigger issue is that Appalachian voters aren't big on high-sounding reform politics. Obama's trip to Beckley today should be interesting.


by elrod on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 12:07:45 PM EST

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

WV has gone GOP on the Dems for 2 cycles now and may be permanently so due to the GOP positioning of Democrats as environmentalists ready to shut down the coal industry.  Furthermore, anti-abortions forces have done an excellent job on connecting the dots on economic populism and a conservative family oriented social agenda

We have an offset in that NH and VT, long ago bastions of yankee conservatism, have gone blue.  


by kmwray on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 12:24:15 PM EST

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

Yes, we can denounce bigotry win Obama denounces his involvment in an anti-Semitic, anti-American hate cult.

Your man is toast.


by JFK464 on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 12:27:33 PM EST

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (2.00 / 1)

Give it up. I'm Jewish and I don't see any anti-Semitism here at all.

Either you don't believe Obama has embraced "anti-Americanism" of Wright and are just are just making hay for your candidate, or you really believe it and are no better than any right-wing thug at LGF.


by elrod on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 12:49:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?f a=PAGE.view&pageId=59456

Obama church published
Hamas terror manifesto


by JFK464 on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 02:48:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

Yes, the church of the Pilgrims (little known fact) is a hate cult.  Wright has been denounced, justifiably so, but come on.


by rfahey22 on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 01:00:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Big speech in Charleston, WV today (2.00 / 1)

Obama gave a big speech in Charleston, WV today connecting the war to the economy. Funny enough, but the public got this connection before the politicians did. Finally one candidate gets it.

Will Clinton go this line too? Will she also connect the horrible waste of this endless war with our floundering economy? Or will she triangulate and concede that McCain is a better Commander in Chief and change the subject?

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/3 /20/115717/730/296/480755


by elrod on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 12:47:33 PM EST

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

I think a lot of people are missing the point of the Wright problem. While some of this is definitely rascism, that's not what the issue will be in the GE.  The republicans are going to use this as a question of patriotism. If Obama's wife says she's never been proud of her country, and his pastor is preaching "god damn america" its easy to convince independant voters that a person who surrounds themselves with this kind of anti-american sentiment must in some part agree with it. The veracity of these accusations has little to do with their effectiveness. We all know that the swift boat stuff was a bunch of bs, but that didn't stop it from working to convince independent voters that Kerry, a decorated war hero, was unpatriotic.  


by cttjbs on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 12:56:34 PM EST

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

Obama and family go to church with ear plugs because "I''ve never heard him speak that way" but in the next sentence says "He''s been part of my life..." News flash people - the hatred this minister holds did not happen overnight, it''s deep seated just as Obama says - but I guess it was the ear plugs that prevented Obama from hearing it all these years?He''s qualified to lead this country because he can''t afford a house so he has a rich friend (now on trial) buy the lot next to them a list price so they get the home at a discount. Most Americans would just keep looking but not Mr. Obama he takes the offer and is a proud owner of a luxurious house in Chicago - Oh until he is caught. When asked about this - "It''s just old Washinton politics."You''re right Mr. Obama, you are old Washington politics - another fraud - just shined up to appear new.
Senator Obama stated that Wright (I am not sure of his credentials to be a Reverend or Pastor; ie, what seminary he attended), harbored mis-trust and animosity built up from years of racial injustices that had been thrust upon Blacks in America. I am para-phrasing but this appeared to be the rationale Senator Obama was hiding Wright under. It seems to me that someone, anyone, in that church should have pointed that out to Wright and the fact that to continue to spew hatred in the direction of others (whites) would be an injustice to the children who attend the church and now have the opportunities of nearly 3 generations of assurances for racial equality - such as the fair housing act and affirmative action. Just the fact that Obama has come so far in his candidacy for his parties Presidential nomination attest to this.To continue to re-live the past, especially in front of the children of the church, on makes the past, the present. It never allows the past - to pass.
These many omissions by Obama spotlight why he is "not ready" to be President or to lead this nation. I have no doubt of his ambitions to do so; however, his mistakes and worse, his excuses show a lack of preparation and a lack of judgement that is necessary for a President.There is a strong will among many of the voters for him to be President, but it is better for him to run when he can succeed than to run now when he will undoubtedly continue to stumble and worse, fail.His experience has been on a local level where everyone he has worked with has had the interest of south Chicago or the interest of Illinois in common. He has never worked with leaders of foreign governments whose only interest is their own and could not care less about the agenda of the U.S. Obama has confused his abilities on local levels to achieve common goals with like minded people with an ability to bring together persons who have no concern in the best interest of Americans.
by jackie123 on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 12:58:37 PM EST

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

I found this speech devisive on so many leves. First, let us not compare Ferraro''s statement with Wright''s. Wright has made numerous anti-white and anti -country statements while Ferraro simply stated what everyone including Obama knows and that is his race has garnered him votes..it has..and it certainly isn''t racist to say it. Second, he says the past is not dead and buried...while we should never forget what happened to black in America it is time to move past it and create an atmosphere of acceptance for all. As outraged as blacks would be if this was said at a primarily white congregation is as outraged as everyone including black Americans should be over the rantings of Wright. I am sorry but he is not the unifier that everyone thought he was. Finally, now he admits..yeah I was there when he made some of those remarks..well then he lied two days ago when he said he was not. He knew that with 8000 members in the church someone was going to say he was there so he was forced into telling the truth...I am sorry but the speech leaves me to believe that he would have gone on with Wright as his mentor if the sermons had not hit the media.
Last week, Obama said he was not aware of Rev. Wright''s comments until his presidential campaign. Then, today, he said he was aware of Rev. Wright''s comments. So, he lied. And, since he was aware of Rev. Wright''s comments, what does it say about his "judgement" that he allowed his children to be exposed to such hateful comments? I know Obama is a real smooth talker, but there are still some very serious questions about this guy. Preaching hate of America in the name of religion is wrong! To sit in a pew for 20 yrs and take your family to that church is wrong even if the hate language was only occasional. Religion should be about healing, love, peace and forgiveness, not hate. Look at what has happened in America, to America and by America as a result of hate in religion.

by jackie123 on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 01:00:24 PM EST

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

It's hard to take your attacks seriously when you display a fundamental inability to comprehend the actual text of the speech re: Ferraro, and an inability to understand that the "controversial" remarks Obama had heard were not necessarily those that were displayed on the tapes.  If you had watched CNN last night, Obama said the "controversial" remarks to which he referred were about family issues and how children should be raised, which caused some members of the congregation to blush because of Wright's blunt style.  At least try to engage in an honest debate.


by rfahey22 on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 01:06:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

As a Democrat I''m totally dismayed that such a weak and flawed candidate like Obama is leading for the Democrat nomination; if he gets it we''ve got another Kerry on our hands who will lose. Obama has never really accomplished anything that would justify moving him up to the WH; every large city in the US has people who have done more. And now here he is, after listening to this racist preacher for 20 years, saying he didn''t know his real political view. That''s just plain unbelievable. Obama chose this church, he chose this "minister." Think what the Republicans can do with this in the fall; he wants to be president but for 20 years he did not figure out that his "minister" was a racist who hated America; put that with Obama''s refusal to wear a flag lapel pin and his wife''s apparently hating American until Obama appeared to be getting the nomination...the Republican ad makers will have a field day as they put McCain in the White House
Obama has STILL not explained why he was a member of such a hate-filled church and WHY he had this loony pastor on his advisory board?? He has NOT explained how he tolerated such horrible, hateful rhetoric for so long (unless he secretly agrees withit) and how he called this man a close, personal friend. A man who preached that the U.S. invented the AIDS virus to infect and murder black people!! Who calls the USA the USKKKA to imply we are no better than the KKK. A man who encourages his flock to say God #$%@ America instead of God Bless America. He still has not explained why he stayed in such a hateful church for 20 years!! Instead he gives a lame speech about race relations and side-tracks the whole issue. I think he''s a con man and a hypocrite and know enough to know I will never vote for him now.

by jackie123 on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 01:01:54 PM EST

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

For Obama "Spiritual advisor and mentor" has become "my former pastor". It isn't Rev. Wright who is the problem it is Senator Obama and that is a shame. What makes it worse is that once again the cable news shows , are calling those of us who question Obama as racists and "knuckleheads". They are dead wrong. We are strong liberal Democrats - not Reagan Democrats - who are appalled that he would stay a close associate of Wright, who would not speak out until caught red-handed. We had hope for him and now we don't. We dread McCain and will end up voting for him even though we swore we would never vote Republican. We are sickened by the morons in the Klan (all five hundred of them) and we are sickened by the morons who "lynched" the Duke Lacrosse Team. We are sickened by the neglect of Katrina victims, and we are sickened by the beating of a white kid in Jena who had nothing to do with the noose in the tree. We are sickened by Mark Furman and we are sickened by the OJ Simpson verdict and the reaction to it. If your spiritual mentor is a nut then find another who isn't. If you can stand by someone who doesn't understand that hundreds of thousands of white (and many black) soldiers were killed or wounded fighting slavery then you have problems. If you stand by someone who remembers Hiroshima and forgets Pearl Harbor then you have problems. If your spiritual advisor forgets that two of the three freedom riders killed in Philadelphia, Mississippi were white then you have a problem. If you won't wear a flag pin because it is phony patriotism (it is), but give a speech on race in front of eight large American flags then you are phony.
Senator you are making Republicans of your friends. We are the ones who praise Dr. King, Andrew Young, Nelson Mandela....We are the ones who want to move forward.

by jackie123 on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 01:04:35 PM EST

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

Maybe it didn't help that Obama threw his grandmother under the bus. I assume she is dead now, or he wouldn't have said such a thing about her in the glare of the public light. Sweet boy.


Matty Boy
by 1024 on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 01:27:11 PM EST

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

God, some people will dig for anything.  That same story is in his book, in greater detail.  Moreover, I would think that a biracial candidate would be able to offer pertinent anecdotes from his own upbringing, but that's just me.  Pathetic.


by rfahey22 on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 01:42:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

Dig for anything? He went on the air today and called his grandmother a "typical white person."

Talk about digging. He's digging himself in deeper, and I for one do not like stereotyping from whatever side it comes from.


by cc on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 02:20:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

Well, which is it?  Is he "throwing his grandmother under the bus" or is he saying that a white racist is typical of the white race?

For the record, I don't think either of the above statements are true, but if you can't see that those attacks are mutually contradictory, you're simply not grounded in reality.  One accuses Obama of "throwing his grandmother under the bus," the other throws her under the bus because she's not indicative of white people generally.  Funny how that works.


by rfahey22 on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 02:34:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

Hillary has also closed the gap to nothing in NC and with the Bayh brand pushing her in IN she may win there as well. The superdelegates are there for a reason and lets hope they save us from this disaster in waiting. Obama is unelectable


by rossinatl on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 01:31:27 PM EST

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

WV is a swing state. Bill Clinton won it twice and Hillary would have a good chance winning it in the general election.  Obama has ZERO chance.


by karajan72 on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 02:00:24 PM EST

Markets are still voting against Hillary and (none / 0)

McCain

http://iemweb.biz.uiowa.edu/graphs/graph _DConv08.cfm

http://iemweb.biz.uiowa.edu/graphs/graph _PRES08_WTA.cfm

Analysis: IEM More Accurate at Predicting Elections Than Polls from 1988 to 2004 :

http://www.biz.uiowa.edu/news/displaysto ry.cfm?id=1830


by Timetheos on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 02:04:33 PM EST

Er, sorry for barging in here (none / 0)

But I just wanted to pimp my diary to Jerome.  As a recovering kossack myself, I and my partner just spent the last three days or so trying to pull together a breakdown of the Race-Card and how it's been played in this primary.

It's the kind of article (comprehensive - at least trying to be, so additions a re welcome), thoroughly resourced and documented, that once, some years ago now, I would have been proud to post at Daily Kos.  

Now I'm proud to post it here.

RACEBAITING: An analysis of its role in the 2008 Democratic Primary.

I think it's a helpful breakdown.  Well, Clinton supporters might find it helpful.

I'm only barging in like this as I see it's scrolled down the list already and might end up being missed by people who would, yourself included, find it useful.

(Its about 7000 wds)

I've tried to be fair and am happy to meet criticisms with equally researched and sourced evidence.

Sorry, again.


by PadraigPearse on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 02:19:00 PM EST

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

Obama and his supporters can play the race card in the primary but if they try that when the young and African American vote makes up 12%-17% of the electorate, they are finished. He lost my vote along time ago. Or should i say that the Blogosphere, Obama supporters and MSNBC lost him my vote along time ago. I look foward to voting for HRC in the GE, but will settle for John McCain. Obama has no chance of getting my vote.

BTW: The Media has done him no favors by helping him each time ANYBODY says ANYTHING constructive about him. Now his supporters feel they can burhs off anything by claiming rascism. Reading some of these comments makes me sick.


by ND1979 on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 02:36:21 PM EST

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

Enjoy that McCain vote.

Also, enjoy the invasion of Iran, 100 years of Iraq and the swearing in of his anti-choice supreme court justices. But hey, if you're rich your tax cuts will be permanent.


Voting for John McCain is not God bless America.
by SFValues on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 02:42:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

You are no Democrat or Progressive.

To imply that McCain is better than Obama or Hillary is just plain stupid.

Enjoy another great depression, your phone calls being listened upon, more war, ...


by Timetheos on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 03:13:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

Wow! A 28 point lead in a state with 28 delegates, one quarter the delegates of North Carolina. Man, Obama should drop out now!

Then again, maybe not. Let's see what else Rasmussen has to say.

McCain has a 10 point lead on Hillary, but only a 7 point lead on Obama. And Obama still has a 3 point on Hillary in the race for the Democratic nomination.
http://rasmussenreports.com/public_conte nt/politics/election_20082/2008_presiden tial_election/daily_presidential_trackin g_poll

McCain has a six point in Ohio over both Obama and Hillary...
http://rasmussenreports.com/public_conte nt/politics/election_20082/2008_presiden tial_election/daily_presidential_trackin g_poll

and three point leads over both in Michigan
http://rasmussenreports.com/public_conte nt/politics/election_20082/2008_presiden tial_election/michigan/michigan_2008_pre sidential_election

However, in Colorado Obama and McCain are tied, while McCain kicks Hillary's arse by 14 points
http://rasmussenreports.com/public_conte nt/politics/election_20082/2008_presiden tial_election/colorado/colorado_2008_pre sidential_election

In the state that saved Hillary's campaign, New Hampshire, McCain leads Obama by 3 points and Hillary by 6
http://rasmussenreports.com/public_conte nt/politics/election_20082/2008_presiden tial_election/new_hampshire/new_hampshir e_2008_presidential_election

But, OMG, Hillary has a 28 point lead in West Virginia. Time for Obama to face reality and quit!


The Clintons are NOT racist - just ask Lani Guinier and Joycelyn Elders!
by danorr on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 04:16:54 PM EST

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

What a joke! WV going to Hillary over McCain? West Virgina is the at the very heart of the Scots-Irish demographic in the US with some of the deepest levels of unthinking patriotism in the land and SUSA is giving the state to Hillary over McCain?

Give us a break!

You should know your history. Arkansas is similar to WV in demos and Bill Clinton always won with with huge margins of the Black and Scots-Irish vote. That was always how he intended on winning the White House. It is covered in John Harris' book, The Suvivor.


by ND1979 on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 04:54:02 PM EST

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

I'm soooo sorry guys but I can't vote for Barrack Obama after hearing what so many so called Democrates have said about HRC. Calling her the "corporate candidate" (I almost forgot that as a Democrat I have to hate the corporations because they aren't 100% perfect) and and chastizing her for saying that she would like to have Obama on her team (while he NEVER has said the same about her)

Before you start questioning my conviction you should look at what your candidate has done during this campaign. He says NAFTA was a mistake and he would repeal it. Then he sends his TOP economic advisor to Canada to say that his supporters are , in essence, dumb and he is just saying that to score political political points.


by ND1979 on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 05:01:56 PM EST

Re: WV Dem poll, Clinton up by 28 (none / 0)

Clearly, West Virginia is an important state.


by Skaje on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 08:11:47 PM EST


You are not logged in.

In order to post a comment, you must be logged in. If you have a member account, please log in to comment.

If not, you can make an account right here. It's quick and free.

Login
Username:

Password: