If It's Meet The Press, It's Sexist?

[Republished from 2008Central.net]


This morning on Meet The Press, Tim Russert reached a new degree in sexism and shoddy analysis with a tortured segment on a recent Pew Survey.

Russert's introduction to the segment:

MR. RUSSERT: [...]

Then Pew said, "Give us a word that you think best describes these candidates." The first one was McCain.  Old was the first word people threw out.  Honest, experienced, patriot, conservative, hero, liberal.

Then they asked, OK, Obama.  Inexperienced, charismatic, intelligent, change, inspirational, young, new.

Clinton.  Experienced, strong, untrustworthy, intelligent, smart, determined, rhymes with rich.  That's what the poll said.  They used a different word. But it's a family poll, and this is a family program.  What does that tell you, James?


I'll spare you the agonizing discussion that followed, but if you must read it you can do so here.  The survey was of a group of 1,508 people.  Here are the full results of this presidential candidate word association:


You may be asking yourself, "I noticed that Russert listed 7 words for each candidate.  Are these the only 7?  The top 7?  Are there more?"  Good question.  You see, the word bitch was 7th word on the list for Hillary Clinton, so Tim couldn't just discuss the top 5, because then that wouldn't have given him the opportunity to talk about the "word that rhymes with rich."

My issues with the discussion on MTP about this survey are as follows:

  • First, if no one described Sen. Clinton as a "word that rhymes with rich," there's zero chance that it would have gotten discussed on Meet The Press.
  • Secondly, if you're going to begin a discussion of this survey about the "bitch" description towards the only woman in the race, then it's also incumbent on the host to mention that 10 people also described her as "female/woman."  Notice how people didn't describe the most viable black candidate in history as "black?"  But, the woman is well "female/woman."  This is certainly a topic worth discussing, but it wasn't.
  • Third, there are certainly some interesting pieces from this survey that were worth discussing, but weren't discussed.  See, as I already noted, having a serious discussion about this survey is silly.  That is part of the reason why some of the interesting parts of it were not discussed in detail, such as: that almost half of the people described Obama as inexperienced; or 9 described him as arrogant (which I was definitely not expecting); or the fact that 16 people described Hillary Clinton as untrustworthy; or the fact that people seem confused about McCain with some describing him as conservative, others as liberal and others as moderate.  The fact that none of these points were discussed belies the true purpose of the segment: to talk about what a "word that rhymes with rich" Hillary Clinton is.

I'm not arguing that there's some grand scheme against Hillary Clinton or anything.  Rather, I'm simply saying that this segment was garbage and in the wider context of some of Russert's previous antics, it only stinks more.  Is it not worth asking and discussing the role of gender in this election?  Good analysis would have probed deeper, or at least tried to probe deeper.  At the very least, good analysis would have at least pointed out that while Obama was not characterized by his race, Hillary Clinton was characterized by some by her gender.

Further, since the survey was discussed on Meet The Press, does this mean that other parts of the survey are relevant as well?  For example, based on the survey, Obama has more trouble retaining Democrats in a match up against McCain than Hillary Clinton does (he does better amongst independents though).  With Nader in the race, wouldn't the Democratic loyalty be something worth discussing?  Obama's strength amongst independents is often discussed.  In case you're curious, here are the details in match ups against McCain:

Democratic support vs. McCain...

  • Hillary Clinton: 89% (McCain gets 8%)
  • Barack Obama: 81% (McCain gets 14%)

Independent Support  vs. McCain...
  • Barack Obama: 49% (McCain gets 43%)
  • Hillary Clinton: 44% (McCain gets 50%)


Any regular reader of 2008Central.net knows that we caution strongly against giving too much credence to polls.  So, I'm not here arguing that this poll is a reflection of reality.  My point is simply this: If this pew report is worth discussing on Meet The Press, then discuss it.  Don't gloss over or flat out ignore the interesting points solely to remind viewers that some people think Hillary Clinton is a "word that rhymes with rich."

[Photo Credit: Big Russ And Me]

Update [2008-3-2 18:42:6 by 2008 Central]: Thanks to a commenter for pointing out an issue with respect to data, the main point of the post remains unchanged, but a correction has been noted.



Display:


Re: If It's Meet The Press, It's Sexist? (1.00 / 0)

You haven't read the data correctly.  There were far more than 100 people.

And what's your problem with the word "bitch"? A week ago people on mydd were shouting with glee that "bitch is the new black"  There are Clinton supporters who have bragged that they wear t-shirts with this motto.


by mainelib on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 06:33:16 PM EST

Re: If It's Meet The Press, It's Sexist? (1.00 / 0)

Yeah, what's up with that?  All the Hillary supporters where cheerleading Tina Fey last week for proudly standing up for Hillary and 'bitches'.

Now everyone is surprised that the label is sticking?


by neonplaque on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 06:41:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If It's Meet The Press, It's Sexist? (2.00 / 0)

First, this isn't a piece in support of "HRC."  Nor, is it necessarily arguing that the use of the word "bitch" is sexist in and of itself.  As with many pejorative expressions, the context of use has a significant influence on the meaning.

This post examines the overall context and simply points out that a survey that presented a few interesting pieces of information was discussed solely so that the show could remind viewers that some people think HRC is a "word that rhymes with rich."

It's a commentary post, not an advocacy post.


Visit http://2008central.net for nonpartisan news, analysis and resources related to the 2008 U.S. Presidential Election.
by 2008 Central on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 06:45:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If It's Meet The Press, It's Sexist? (1.00 / 0)

Would it have been more objective for the show to refuse to disclose this information to its viewers?


by mainelib on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 06:47:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If It's Meet The Press, It's Sexist? (2.00 / 6)

I suppose you miss the entire point of my post, which is sad.

My point was simply: If you're going to have a discussion, have a serious discussion about the survey.  Don't just point to the fact that people referred to HRC as a bitch, also point out the fact that she was described as "female/woman" as well, whereas McCain and Obama weren't described as "male/man."  

It may also be worth noting, as I indicated above, that references to Obama's race are missing from the list.  Certainly interesting.

And of course, if the survey is worth discussing on the show, then as I mentioned in my post, discuss some of the other notable results.  It's about context, it's about good analysis vs. bad analysis.

I'm saying this was a poor discussion and I offered reasons why I believe that to be the case.   I'm unclear what your major opposition is to.


Visit http://2008central.net for nonpartisan news, analysis and resources related to the 2008 U.S. Presidential Election.
by 2008 Central on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 06:51:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If It's Meet The Press, It's Sexist? (2.00 / 3)

Their major opposition to your diary is that it appears to give support to Clinton, in an around about way, because it gives support to women and she is one.  It is the same hatred that you speak of wrapped up in resentment that Clinton even be mentioned as being treated unfairly.  Anything the slightest bit taking the side or even defending Clinton or even defending women is a slight to Obama.  And so it is a troublesome diary to them which they have to pick apart until they are dead tired.  It is more of the same, and it is worth ignoring.  It's twisted.


by Scotch on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 07:35:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If It's Meet The Press, It's Sexist? (none / 0)

Timmy is looking for ratings.  He loves salacious details, they don't need to be sexist details.  Remember in the last debate when BHO said he denounced all the hate talk of Farrakahn, but Timmy still wanted to read the anti-sematic words so everyone, including young people, across the country can hear hateful words against Jews.


--1jphusseinb-- she's not a monster, as far as I know--diplomat Sinbad, making the world safe--all bluster, no cattle--
by 1jpb on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 10:54:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If It's Meet The Press, It's Sexist? (none / 0)

I think that if they did have a big discussion about people calling her a bitch that Clinton supporters would not have liked that!!!


by mainelib on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 08:59:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Well, it would have been less sexist. (none / 0)


by Shazone on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 06:53:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

"Rhymes with rich"... (2.00 / 1)

is not "Bitch is the new black!"

One is Barbara Bush negative (guess which one).  The other suggests strength.

I'm proud to be a bitch - but if you say I rhyme with rich, I'll kick the shit out of you.

Buster.


by Shazone on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 06:42:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Rhymes with rich"... (none / 0)

The word was VOLUNTEERED by respondents in the poll.

Meet the Press was trying to find a way to tell their listeners what those people volunteered as their one word description of HRC.  If they said, "it's the word that's the new black," virtually no one would understand what they were talking about.


by mainelib on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 06:45:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

My comment refers to a comment.. (2.00 / 1)

suggesting that last week we were applauding the use of the word "bitch" and now we're "bitching" about it.  My comment had nothing to do with the poll.

And you cannot tell me that 11 people came up with the same shitass answer "rhymes with rich" -where would they have gotten that idea - except through Barbara Bush's comments and the MSM continuing to repeat it.


by Shazone on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 06:56:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My comment refers to a comment.. (none / 0)

The people didn't say "rhymes with rich."  That's what Meet the Press said because they didn't want to use the word bitch on the air.


by mainelib on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 07:19:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My comment refers to a comment.. (none / 0)

You can see that people surveyed didn't say "rhymes with rich" because each and every other word on the list of descriptions was not in quotation marks.  Thus, you see on Clinton's list that the top three words used were experienced, strong, untrustworthy.

Those and other words not in quotation marks were the words directly spoken by respondents.  Pew did not want to list bitch in the list so they put "rhymes with rich" on the list.


by mainelib on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 07:24:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If It's Meet The Press, It's Sexist? (2.00 / 2)

The "bitch is the new black" was a reflection on the sexists that are constantly concentrating on their hatred of Clinton because she is a woman rather on any other issue.  They want only too much to have people reject her because of their label and fear of the label.  Saturday night live owned it then and took it away from the mysognists, and played into it.  Showing the so called positive aspects of bitchery, and that is to call up a vision of a person who gets things done and who doesn't put up with shit from other people in the process.  Use of bitch was a mocking of those who thought they could tear her down by calling her a bitch.  They want to make her a bitch to be rejected.  It turns it back on them, in their language and thinking, and uses it to build up her admirable qualities.

Noone is using the word bitch as something that should be used to describe a woman.  Is that too nuanced to understand?


by Scotch on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 06:53:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If It's Meet The Press, It's Sexist? (2.00 / 2)

Saturday night live owned it then and took it away from the mysognists, and played into it.

I think this is it exactly. It's one thing for Tina Fey to claim the word proudly. It's another for a bunch of bitter poll respondents to purposely pick a word that they think will be hurtful and demeaning to Clinton.

I don't think it's different from the black community's use of the N-word, and that's been written about to death.

Excellent diary, and I agree with you...it's disconcerting that Russert would have to use a "top 7" criterion to force the b-word into the discussion.


by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 07:04:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If It's Meet The Press, It's Sexist? (2.00 / 0)

er, that last sentence was directed at 2008 Central, of course.


by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 07:05:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

you must be kidding? (2.00 / 2)

this hurts all women, he made it socially acceptable to call us bitches. If we use it ironically it's us, and it's ironic, and we're taking away the sting.  Tim should be taken off the air, what an irresponsible thing to do.  Does he think there needs to be more hate crimes against women by legitimatizing such a nasty word, by making it 'common?'  I should no longer be shocked but it's time for that fool to be fired.  


Hillary - alternative energy
by anna shane on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 08:28:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: you must be kidding? (none / 0)

Personally, I never liked the Tina Fey bit and was bothered that people were celebrating it -- precisely because I don't like lowering social norms by making it acceptable to use the word bitch.


by mainelib on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 09:00:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If It's Meet The Press, It's Sexist? (none / 0)

The Pew poll did NOT use the word.  They asked respondents if they wanted to give a one word description of the candidates and some chose bitch.


by mainelib on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 10:43:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Good diary (2.00 / 3)

I don't read many of your diaries but I must say this was well written and I'd think a fair argument regardless of what candidate you support.

Now THIS is the kind of writing I expect on the front page, not the "gosh Clinton sucks" diaries of some front page diarists.


by world dictator on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 06:38:12 PM EST

Re: If It's Meet The Press, It's Sexist? (2.00 / 5)

This campaign sure has been enlightening to me.  I have always considered Russert to be sexist as well as all the old talking male heads who we have endured for decades through every single campaign season and newsworthy development in everyday life.  But I didn't realize just how horribly mysognynistic they were until having a woman candidate gave them an opportunity to let out all the pent up mysogny they have been carrying around with them for all these years.  It is amazing that they find it acceptable and think they are still hiding it so well.  

It is the same with the so called progressive community.  I never dreamed that there was so much hatred of women until now.  Somehow  even some progressives think that they are free to expose themselves and their hatred because they have a public figure to unload it on.  Public figures are supposed to take everything and not say a word because they are, well, public figures.  

Problem is  that a lot of us out here in ordinary land are represented by those figures and look just like them, and take the hits, the abuse and everything else right along with them.  Afterall, it is really directed at all women when it is directed at one.

I hope what comes out of this is the death of the careers of the ancient dried up media figures like Russert, Bennet, Bernstein, and Matthews to name a few, but then that might be too insane to hope for.


by Scotch on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 07:05:58 PM EST

Re: If It's Meet The Press, It's Sexist? (2.00 / 0)

Scotch: Thank you for your comments.  Very thoughtful.  I agree that is is the depth of the TV ole boy pundit as well as the so-called "progressive" antipathy toward strong, competent women that continues to strike deeply.  I recall a nascent feeling to that effect about the left (of which I was a supporting member) during the late 1960s.  At some point then, my female friends and I noticed that we were included/tolerated/etc. as long as we took a somewhat supportive role in the antiwar movement at that time.  I remember filing it away in my mind...and the file spilled way open the past few months.  I suppose that when I was that young, my glands ruled more than they do now.  That in itself is a depressing thought insofar as future generations in their 20s and 30s go.


by christinep on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 07:20:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If It's Meet The Press, It's Sexist? (2.00 / 2)

 

 Progressive my ass. Unless this so called democratic party starts to refute this sort of sexism,my vote along with at least 11 more of my family will look elsewhere. If BO wants it from the bottom up, let it start now.


Wisdom Is The Reward For Listening Over A Lifetime
by gunner on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 08:44:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Come on (none / 0)

Now Tim Russert is in on the Vast Misogynistic Conspiracy for reporting the results of a survey. The straws you're grasping at - are they drinking straws, or like hay straws?


by amiches on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 07:13:08 PM EST

Re: Come on (2.00 / 3)

Way to straw man the commentary in the post.  Go back.  Read what I wrote and the conclusion:

I'm not arguing that there's some grand scheme against Hillary Clinton or anything.  Rather, I'm simply saying that this segment was garbage and in the wider context of some of Russert's previous antics, it only stinks more.  Is it not worth asking and discussing the role of gender in this election?  Good analysis would have probed deeper, or at least tried to probe deeper.  At the very least, good analysis would have at least pointed out that while Obama was not characterized by his race, Hillary Clinton was characterized by some by her gender.

At what point did I say that there was a "vast misogynistic conspiracy"?


Visit http://2008central.net for nonpartisan news, analysis and resources related to the 2008 U.S. Presidential Election.
by 2008 Central on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 07:34:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why don't they mention-- (none / 0)

There's been a huge amount of analysis of racial voting patterns.  In fact, that has bothered me because the analysis overlooks the numbers of white voters in very white states (like Maine) who voted for Obama as well as the moves of white superdelegates to Obama.


by mainelib on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 09:02:14 PM EST

Re: If It's Meet The Press, It's Sexist? (2.00 / 5)

BO has successfully re-ignited racism and sexism...he thinks it's a winning strategy but I think that's because of his inexperience. Many women and men who are regular democrats and liked the fact that democrats used to be for equal opportunity will never and can never support a man who has so viciously used race and gender as the basis for his campaign.

The same reason why Russert and others can't see what you point out here is why the can't see that Hillary's years as First Lady of the US and Arkansas qualify as years of experience. Many of the sex blind individuals think that there is not experience in being First Lady, despite the fact that she had an office in the west wing, visited 80 countries, worked on SCHIP and spoke for womens rights, plus many other things.

I applaud your ability to see. I wish more could.


by seattlegonz on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 09:23:09 PM EST

Re: If It's Meet The Press, It's Sexist? (none / 0)

I am a life long feminist and have no idea what you're talking about.  How has Obama reignited sexism?  And Russert, who I generally strongly dislike, did nothing more than report that when Pew asked people to give a one more description of a candidate that some used a word that "rhymes with witch." He also reported that the number one used for Clinton was "experienced."


by mainelib on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 10:46:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If It's Meet The Press (none / 0)

I am a life long feminist and have no idea what you're talking about.  How has Obama reignited sexism?  And Russert, who I generally strongly dislike, did nothing more than report that when Pew asked people to give a one more description of a candidate that some used a word that "rhymes with witch." He also reported that the number one used for Clinton was "experienced."


by mainelib on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 10:47:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If It's Meet The Press (2.00 / 1)

Yeah, the "I didn't hear that at all" argument is what was used by BO supporters in my precinct caucus. Maybe we define feminist differently -- because every feminist I know can see and hear BO's sexist rhetoric and as the diarist points out there were other attributes that received as many notes as the b*tch one...but those weren't discussed. This is the same problem as McCain apologizing for someone using the name Hussein when referring to BO but not apologizing or correcting an audience member when he calls Hillary a b*tch. Just because there are sexist morons in the world doesn't mean we need to fill the airwaves with their words. If there had been ten respondents who had said BO was a word that rhymed with figger I don't think Russert would have discussed it.


by seattlegonz on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 12:36:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

from Obama supporter (2.00 / 0)

Russert clearly dislikes Hillary.  


by highgrade on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 09:49:45 PM EST

It's Sexist? Without a doubt! (2.00 / 4)

Well, if one of the words used to describe Obama rhymes with "bigger" would that be considered racist?  I believe it would and many people would be outraged to have such a discussion on the public air waves.  After all, just look what happened to Imus.

I have a 13 year old daughter.  She and her friends call each other "bitchs."  I wasn't too happy about it and told her so.  But it reminded me of an episode when I was growing up, hearing a couple of little African American boys refering to each others as "niggers."

I know that victims use these slurs as a strategy for disarming their derogatory effect.  However, that doesn't mean that that original uses don't indicate sexism and racism.

I'm afraid that I find Russert's behavior offensive, disgusting, inappropriate and worthy of termination.  I don't know why NBC tolerates such blatant professional misconduct on the part of its reporters.

Frankly, I'm stunned that there is anyone on Mydd who would fail to condemn Russert and NBC.


by dbrown04 on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 09:56:40 PM EST

Re: It's Sexist? Without a doubt! (none / 0)

I, for one, would want to know if respondents in a public poll used a racist word to describe a candidate.  I am not against discussing something that actually happened.  Reporting that something happened doesn't mean that you approve of it.


by mainelib on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 10:48:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If It's Meet The Press, It's Sexist? (2.00 / 1)

And you expect anything else from NBC or Tim Russert?...par for the course...and of course, I hate it...I think they're all b-------!!!


by susanclare on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 10:18:49 PM EST

Well, at least only 11 people called her a bitch (2.00 / 2)

Only a few more than called her a socialist.

What this survey shows is that more people are comfortable using a pejorative term for a female than are comfortable mentioning a candidate's race.

I thought the most interesting thing is that many different words come up with her revealing that people are all over the place in what they think about her.  Most of these people have obtained their impressions on a second hand basis.


by lombard on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 11:28:45 PM EST


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