*BREAKING* Black Liberation Theology - Read and Weep :(

"Black theology refuses to accept a God who is not identified totally with the goals of the black community. If God is not for us and against white people, then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him. The task of black theology is to kill Gods who do not belong to the black community. ... Black theology will accept only the love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy. What we need is the divine love as expressed in Black Power, which is the power of black people to destroy their oppressors here and now by any means at their disposal. Unless God is participating in this holy activity, we must reject his love."

James H Cone
Black Theology Founder


Poll
Is Black Liberation Theology a racist doctrine?
Yes
No

Votes: 29
Results : Vote Link : Polls

Display:


Re: Black Theology - Read and Weep (none / 0)

This is going to kill us in the GE.

Anybody remember Willie Horton?  That was nothing compared to what the rethugs are going to do to us this time.  I'm making plans to relocate to another country.  8 more years of republicans is more than I can bear--and that is exactly what we have coming to us if Senator Obama is our nominee; which looks likely.


Unity Ticket: The best damn way to kick John McCain's Ass in November!
by aurelius on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 04:13:23 AM EST

Re: Black Theology - Read and Weep (2.00 / 0)

is that all you can think of? "It will kill us in the GE"

how about the stain of slavery is still not gone in some neighborhoods, like the corridor of shame in South Carolina?

Take a cue from your candidate, don't try and use this issue for political gain. There's too much pain behind the anger.


by washingtoncritic on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 04:26:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Black Theology - Read and Weep (none / 0)

I'm not using it for gain.  I'm sad and disappointed about the entire mess.  What I am doing is looking at the situation and drawing my own conclusions as to what will happen in the future.  I could be wrong.  But in this case, I doubt it.  


Unity Ticket: The best damn way to kick John McCain's Ass in November!
by aurelius on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 01:09:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Black Theology - Read and Weep (1.66 / 3)

I agree.  Obama needs to step down now, and wait until 2012 to take the reins from hillary.  He's unelectable at this point.

He's simply not ready for the job.  I can't believe he actually thought he could get through the vetting of a US prez election without this stuff coming out.


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 04:30:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Black Theology - Read and Weep (2.00 / 0)

Why would 2012 (and you must mean 2016) be any different? If this would destroy us now, it will destroy us any time Obama runs. If this would destroy us now, he is entirely unelectable for all time. Right?


by Loreg on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 06:51:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Black Theology - Read and Weep (1.50 / 2)

No, not exactly.  In eight years he could work hard to redeem himself, and distance himself.  


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 06:56:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Black Theology - Read and Weep (2.00 / 0)

You seriously think that if this destroys his candidacy NOW, that anything he can do in the next 8 years will redeem him?

Oh, and since you've read the book, give us Cone's definition of "white enemy."

Oh, and I'm sure you can point to an Obama speech where he exhorts his listeners to destroy the white enemy.

Here's a video of Cone. You should watch it. Cone's very terrifying. So's Bill Moyers! Everyone should denounce and reject Bill Moyers.


by Loreg on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 07:14:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Black Theology - Read and Weep (2.00 / 1)

Actually, I agree with you. Unless something changes, he is unelectable. Maybe after something like 20 years people will forget or won't care about this stuff but it does ruin his chances of ever winning the WH.


No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!
by Ga6thDem on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 07:30:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Black Theology - Read and Weep (2.00 / 0)

Well, good, now we know the standard. In order to be President, you have to not only denounce your pastor if he says something stupid, but you have to denounce your pastor's teachers if THEY say something stupid.

Who were Hillary's pastors' teachers?


by Loreg on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 07:35:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Black Theology - Read and Weep (2.00 / 1)

Are you kidding? Obama has embraced this theology by being a twenty year member of the church.

Do you think it wouldn't matter if a candidate went to a white supremacist church for 20 years? Of course it would and that candidate would be rendered unelectable too.


No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!
by Ga6thDem on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 07:53:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Black Theology - Read and Weep (2.00 / 1)

Is the entirety of Black Liberation Theology encompassed in that one sentence?


by Loreg on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 08:13:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Black Theology - Read and Weep (none / 0)

You're trying to nuance your way out of this. Good luck with that.


No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!
by Ga6thDem on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 08:28:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Black Theology - Read and Weep (none / 0)

Simple question. Is Black Liberation Theology encapsulated in that one sentence? Looking at other sentences, I guess, is nuance.

Your answer, then, is yes. That one sentence is the key takeaway we should gather from 40 years of intellectual and spiritual journey.

And if Cone, for example, said in later books that he was wrong to use such language, well, nuance. Fie on you, nuance. You aren't going to try any of this, "It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is" on me!


by Loreg on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 08:40:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Black Theology - Read and Weep (1.00 / 1)

If you call that hatefule tripe an 'intellectual journey', you've got problems.


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 09:30:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Black Theology - Read and Weep (none / 0)

I'm sorry, is that one sentence all there is to black liberation theology? Does that encapsulate the entire experience?

Do you REALLY think that 40 years and 8 books from this guy and 4,000 sermons from Wright and countless books and sermons from other authors and ministers is encapsulated in that one sentence from 40 years ago!??


by Loreg on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 10:49:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Black Theology - Read and Weep (none / 0)

I don't need to read anymore of his tripe to know he's a racist.  You Obamatons can apologize for him all you want.

A racist is a racist, whether he's green white black or purple.


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 04:56:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You Don't Understand (2.00 / 0)

Obama is unready and unelectable NOW - but if Clinton wins the nomination by convincing 75% of the superdelegates to overturn the will of the voters and becomes the nominee, she can grant Obama the Clintonian Gift of Readiness, making him ready to be Vice President. They'll meet in a darkened chamber at 3:00 am, the clouds will open up, a light will come down, and Obama will be Ready on Day Two.

Until that happens, Obama is obviously doomed to electoral failure.


Unable to rec or rate
Still supporting Obama
Still not putting up with "preening" posts
by jaiwithani on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 08:07:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You Don't Understand (none / 0)

Okay, I understand now! I forgot about the redeeming nature of belief in the Clintons.


by Loreg on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 08:22:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Not to be the super cynical Clinton supporter (none / 0)

but I think they have shown that they can get anything elected to the POTUS and have a certain way of shutting up critics and getting people on their side.

I can't imagine how either Bill or Hillary would allow anyone to call the dem VP nom out on anything race related.  And the specter of both of them beating the crap out of the racist GOP machine over any criticism coming Obama's way would be the perfect compliment to what Obama said yesterday.  Unfortunately, Obmama's words won't do it alone.  We American's have very short memories for everything that isn't particularly divisive or sensational.  While his speech was good, the video (I am sure there are more to come) of Wright is much more... appealing to the population.


by linc on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 12:24:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not to be the super cynical Clinton supporter (none / 0)

As good Democrats, Bill and Hillary would beat the crap out of the GOP machine even if Obama were the nominee and Hillary weren't. Right?


by Loreg on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 03:36:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Black Theology - Read and Weep (2.00 / 0)

You know nothing of this nation's history.

Weep: http://schooloffish.files.wordpress.com/ 2007/10/a_slavery_maryland_0327.jpg

Weep: http://www.southernct.edu/~ils69315/sixt ies/civilrights.jpg

Weep:
http://cache.eb.com/eb/image?id=71296&am p;rendTypeId=4

Weep:
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/ARTICL E1/balcony.jpg

Weep:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/co mmons/thumb/f/f8/Malcolm_X_-death.jpg/3 00px-Malcolm_X-_death.jpg

Then talk about racism.


by washingtoncritic on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 04:13:55 AM EST

Re: Black Theology - Read and Weep (2.00 / 1)

Yea seriously I'm a Clinton supporter but the degree of conservativeness and anti-leftist perspective of Clinton supporters at the moment is appalling me.


by LeftistAddiction on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 06:58:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Black Theology - Read and Weep (2.00 / 3)

I think this is a little unfair.

And just so you know, there is a diarist named CardBoard who's going to ream you for this. I have seen his/her wrath in another diary which was attacking Cone, and it's fierce.

Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 04:17:55 AM EST

Re: Black Theology - Read and Weep (2.00 / 1)

We should not be scared to speak our minds and/or bring up issues for fear of bullies. The diarist did not make any comments.  S/he merely put Cone's own words up there and let people drawn their own conclusion from them/about them.  CardBoard can come and bring it on.


Unity Ticket: The best damn way to kick John McCain's Ass in November!
by aurelius on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 04:33:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Black Theology - Read and Weep (2.00 / 1)

I know, but I feel like posting an "inflammatory" passage from the book without any context is a bad idea. Personally, I don't want to draw many conclusions from three or four sentences out of a much larger text. I need to read this book. People keep talking about it, and I feel like a dumbass.
Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 04:38:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Black Theology - Read and Weep (2.00 / 1)

I'm going to get a copy as well--I hadn't heard about/read this particular 'philosophy' until just recently when this all blew up.  As for context, I don't think there is any context that can make that kind of racist vitriol sound good.  At the point you call white people the "white enemy" there just isn't a way to make that acceptable/patatable/ok.  I don't know what we're collectively going to do about this mess.  


Unity Ticket: The best damn way to kick John McCain's Ass in November!
by aurelius on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 04:44:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Black Theology - Read and Weep (none / 0)

There are whites and there is the white enemy.


"We live entangled in webs of endless deceit, often self-deceit, but with a little honest effort, it is possible to extricate ourselves from them". -- NC
by Trond Jacobsen on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 08:35:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

There are whites and white enemies... (1.00 / 1)

So which one am I?

Am I white devil, Obama?

Am I the enemy?


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 09:32:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: There are whites and white enemies... (none / 0)

You are in a better position to answer that question than I.


"We live entangled in webs of endless deceit, often self-deceit, but with a little honest effort, it is possible to extricate ourselves from them". -- NC
by Trond Jacobsen on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 09:44:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Maybe we can all put our heads together (2.00 / 1)

and come up with some final solution to the Negro Problem.

And by the way, I love the trend lately on Mydd.  it seems that the Strike really brought out the best in everybody here.


by Dumbo on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 04:18:03 AM EST

Re: Maybe we can all put our heads together (2.00 / 1)

I'm not saying diaries like this should be banned, but my goodness, this ignorance is astounding coming from Democrats.

To lack so little understanding and compassion for a race of people who were enslaved and segregated for this nation's history, and to use the angry voices in the black community to smear the first viable black candidate with the same brush, is a disgrace.


by washingtoncritic on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 04:23:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Maybe we can all put our heads together (2.00 / 1)

I made absolutely zero comments.  These are Cone's own words.  

I'm letting his words speak for themselves.

If you don't like them, maybe you should reconsider any misconceptions you may have about race in the United States.  I had no idea that 'Black Liberation Theology' was so racist.

And yes, I DO find this extrememly racist.  Ban me if you want, but I will speak out for my liberal principles.  Racists of all colors should be ostracized.


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 04:27:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Maybe we can all put our heads together (2.00 / 1)

I'm not going to use it.  But you can bet your ass the republicans will. A lot.  Over and Over. Ad nauseum.  This will not go away.  No amount of hoping and praying on our side of the fence will make it go away.  In short, we're probably fucked.


Unity Ticket: The best damn way to kick John McCain's Ass in November!
by aurelius on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 04:29:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Maybe we can all put our heads together (2.00 / 1)

Talk about a loop...

Black theology will accept only the love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy

Black theology will accept only the love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy

Black theology will accept only the love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy

Black theology will accept only the love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy

...

We're screwed.  They're going to paint this as Obama's creed, because he himself expressed adherence to the Black Liberation Theology.

I doubt he even has ever heard this quote.  But will middle America believe it?

After hearing it replayed a zillion times on Faux News?

I doubt it.


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 04:32:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Maybe we can all put our heads together (2.00 / 1)

They'll have the zillion times on Fox and the four times in your most recent post.

Why even pretend to dislike Fox news if you're going to do their work for them?


by Loreg on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 07:39:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: *BREAKING* Black Liberation Theology - Read an (2.00 / 1)

kossackesque


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 04:33:34 AM EST

Re: *BREAKING* Black Liberation (2.00 / 1)

By the way, how is this "breaking"? That book has been around for almost 40 years, hasn't it?
Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 04:35:16 AM EST

Re: *BREAKING* Black Liberation (2.00 / 1)

I've never seen this before.

So you knew about this?  About this doctrine?  You knew about it and kept silent?

You enabled these racists?  

That is despicable.

I never thought I'd see the day that progressives keep silent about gross racism in our midst.


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 04:39:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: *BREAKING* Black Liberation (none / 0)

...Is that snark?

It's a very famous book. I've heard of it, but I've never actually read it.

Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 04:44:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: *BREAKING* Black Liberation (2.00 / 1)

Its about to get a lot more famous.

:(


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 04:50:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: *BREAKING* Black Liberation (2.00 / 1)

You do know he wrote other books, right? And that even this book had other paragraphs?

The Swift Boaters love to take a single sentence or paragraph out of a book and blow it out of proportion and distort its meaning.

How do we know you haven't done that? (In your representation of the works of a guy who influenced the guy who influenced Obama.)


by Loreg on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 07:33:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: *BREAKING* Black Liberation (2.00 / 1)

OK, I'm game.

Give me some "context" in which the words quoted by the diarist suddenly seem "OK".

Really, some words -- especially when they appear to constitute the better part of a paragraph -- just stand on their own in their significance. They are not mitigated by other words uttered in other places.

If a mobster is caught on tape saying "Guys, we're going to whack Charlie Bonebuster tomorrow when he comes in the club", nobody cares that at other times he might be saying pleasant and charming things to his circle of acquaintances. If he's put on trial, he's likely going to prison, and rightly so.

So how might one possibly excuse this sort of writing from Cone? Why not take it as indicating actually the true views he holds in his heart, which he might otherwise keep private, knowing how repugnant they sound to outside parties?

Has he even rejected those very words?

And one question that I never see asked is: has Wright rejected any of the statements attributed to him? Has Obama even asked him to do so?


by frankly0 on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 08:47:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: *BREAKING* Black Liberation (none / 0)

About Cone

Such rhetoric was not likely to win friends among white people, so consequently Cone became the target of a barrage of white criticism. What his critics failed to do was to read Cone's book from cover to cover, for in the final paragraph of his book he explains: "Being black in America has very little to do with skin color. To be black means that your heart, your soul, your mind, and your body are where the dispossessed are. ... Being reconciled to God does not mean that one's skin is physically black. It essentially depends on the color of your heart, soul, and mind." For Cone, then, blackness is a symbol for the oppressed and whiteness is a symbol for the oppressor.

In his subsequent writings Cone consistently maintained the use of these symbols. In his second book, A Black Theology of Liberation (1970), Cone's rhetoric sounds strident if one fails to understand his use of the terms black and white. For example: "To be black is to be committed to destroying everything this country loves and adores." Or again, "Black theology will accept only a love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy." In looking back on these earlier books, Cone later admitted that he would no longer use such extreme language, but, nevertheless, his condemnation of racism and oppression was as strong as ever.

So, the words black and white, when used by Cone don't signify race, but oppression and power, respectively. He's talking about destroying racism, oppression, not white people. And, yes, he's rejected his strident language.

If the mobster is caught on tape saying, "Guys, we're going to whack Charlie Bonebuster tomorrow when he comes in the club" and he's able to demonstrate that whack is his gang's code for "buy a drink for" then he's not going to go to jail. Especially since Charlie's not dead.

You want to convict the "mobster" on the basis of his comment without even looking at to see if there's a body. That's the analog of deciding that Black Liberation Theology is spiritually bankrupt on the basis of that one sentence, taken out of context, from this guy's first of eight books! Is Black Liberation Theology racist? Who knows. Is Charlie dead? Who knows. Hang 'em high. Hell, you get the lynchin' rope and I'll find a tree!


by Loreg on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 09:16:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: *BREAKING* Black Liberation (1.00 / 2)

Thats quite a backpedal he's doing there.

So he didn't actually mean 'white'.

Uh huh.

Gotcha.


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 09:33:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Backpedal? (none / 0)

It is the conclusion to the same book you cite.


"We live entangled in webs of endless deceit, often self-deceit, but with a little honest effort, it is possible to extricate ourselves from them". -- NC
by Trond Jacobsen on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 09:48:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: *BREAKING* Black Liberation (none / 0)

Let's see, he writes nearly an entire book, using the words "black" and "white", with nary a word, apparently, to suggest that he means those words in anything other than their ordinary sense. He talks about how "Black theology will accept only the love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy" with the "explanation" that by "white" he doesn't really mean skin color maybe 100s of pages removed, and not until the conclusion of the book?

So we are to conclude that it's OK with you, and forgives everything, because at the very end of the book, not the beginning, after everything else has been written and read, he includes a single sentence that tries to explain away his use of "black" and "white" as being somehow metaphorical?

Please. All your "argument" shows is that you're 100% an Cone apologist, and will say anything to excuse the inexcusable on his behalf.

And of course it's a wonderful thing that he "admitted" (somebody put a gun to his head, maybe?) he wouldn't use such extreme language anymore -- though that's a little short of renouncing it, isn't it?

Spare me any attempt on your part to pretend you want to be objective.

Partisans like you, who will gladly defend anything if it helps your guy, are nothing but an embarrassment to the Democratic Party.


by frankly0 on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 10:31:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: *BREAKING* Black Liberation (none / 0)

You haven't read Cone's book. You hadn't heard of the guy before last week. You hadn't heard of Black Liberation Theology before last week.

More than a third of black ministers have been influenced to some great degree by Black Liberation Theology. Most of them are the more educated and more liberal theologians of the community. And you'd reject their contributions and their beliefs and their support on the basis of...wait for it...

one sentence!

One sentence in one book that you haven't even read!

Yeah, I'm the partisan.


by Loreg on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 10:54:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Jesus Christ man (none / 0)

Your throwing a fairly large chunk of the african american population out with the freaking bath water. How's the electoral math look if we through all these "racist" churches out of the dem party?


Because I wont trade humanity for patriotism!
by Drewid on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 08:24:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Jesus Christ man (2.00 / 1)

Geez, do you really think that all black churches are like this? Well, for your information, they aren't. I've only been to a few black churches, but the ones I did go to were all about the teachings of Jesus not hatred toward white people. And lots and lots of singing.


No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!
by Ga6thDem on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 08:31:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Jesus Christ man (2.00 / 1)

Because thinking's hard! So much easier to copy and paste from Newsmax and Worldnetdaily!


by Loreg on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 08:41:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Jesus Christ man (none / 0)

Yeah Rev Wright ministered for 20 some od years, his sermons probably over an hour every sunday, and there are what 5 things he said that are "absolutly horrid" when taken out of context of an hour and a half long sermon.
You know it's pretty bad when Mike Huckabee and John McCain have been more understanding of this whole thing than some proposed "democrats"

Because I wont trade humanity for patriotism!
by Drewid on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 08:43:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Jesus Christ man (none / 0)

His theology is apparently a problem.


No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!
by Ga6thDem on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 04:34:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Jesus Christ man (1.50 / 2)

It is a crying shame that Obama didn't pick one of those to go to.

Instead he picked the hate-filled one.  Good choice.


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 09:34:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Jesus Christ man (none / 0)

I doubt that. Trinity doesn't use the same theology obviously.


No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!
by Ga6thDem on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 04:33:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: *BREAKING* Black Liberation Theology - Read an (none / 0)

People ask well how could he have been there for 20 years and not walk away.
Simple really. He is a biracial man who wanted to get ahead in Chicago politics. He needed the votes of those in those churches. Doesn't mean he had to agree with it. But it does mean, if he didnt go there, they would never have voted him in and we would never have the Obama we have today.
by ListenNOW on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 04:38:32 AM EST

Re: *BREAKING* Black Liberation Theology - Read an (none / 0)

That's an explanation--not a sufficient excuse.


Unity Ticket: The best damn way to kick John McCain's Ass in November!
by aurelius on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 04:46:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: *BREAKING* Black Liberation Theology - Read an (2.00 / 1)

" He is a biracial man who wanted to get ahead in Chicago politics. He needed the votes of those in those churches. Doesn't mean he had to agree with it. But it does mean, if he didnt go there, they would never have voted him in and we would never have the Obama we have today."

For a very long time in the deep south it was true that only a politician who agreed with racist bigotry against blacks could get elected, and attendance and membership in racist groups was mandatory to get the support of the southern white citizenry. They would use violence against anyone who resisted their demands.

This did not change until people bravely stood up against it, and made their disagreement with the bigotry loudly apparent. That is what it takes to defeat bigotry - standing up and confronting it.

Obama sat there quietly in TUCC and likely slightly nodded at the "controversial sermons" for 20 years, to keep people comfortable with his membership in this group. I wasn't there so I cannot say with 100% assurance, but most of us are familiar with the peer pressure exerted by a passionate, intense. and intimate group talking about an issue of great importance to them, and it doesn't seem possible for a family to sit in such a group in silent disagreement with the intensity of that type of process. If they did, it was an act of incredible, prolonged duplicity that in and of itself is frightening.

Obama has been accused in the past of a remarkable number of "Present" votes on important issues. The issue of hate speech and racism is, for me, much too important to accept that he voted "present" for 20 years in this church.

I was raised in a family that absolutely did not tolerate any racist talk - not by friends, neighbors, or family. If they were racist, they were not permitted in our home, and they were confronted swiftly, without hesitation. This is one issue where if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem." That is how America has changed and improved it's attitudes toward civil rights over the past 40 years, only by people confronting and refusing to accept racism as a tolerable position. Confronting people, making boundaries and limits on their behavior, and confronting transgressions consistently helps change our society in the direction of justice and fairness. Silence is tacit approval.


by 07rescue on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 05:55:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: *BREAKING* Black Liberation Theology - Read an (none / 0)

Complicity in racism for political gains does not justify one's actions.

When people joined the Nazi party in Germany because of politics and then tried to divorce themselves from the beliefs of the Nazi party that didn't fly either.

And I know this has become a quaint saying but I firmly believe IF YOU CLAIM TO REPRESENT A HIGHER STANDARD AND GAIN POLITICAL BENEFITS FROM YOUR HIGHER STANDARD YOU SHOULD BE HELD TO THIS HIGHER STANDARD.

That is to say don't run on a campaign centered on change and then say "well everyone else was doing it"  I think that's more than fair


by world dictator on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 08:08:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: *BREAKING* Black Liberation Theology - Read an (none / 0)

Exactly.


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 09:36:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Yeah! (none / 0)

You know, it's perfectly reasonable to compare Black Liberation Theology to Nazism based on one sentence. One killed 6 million Jews and millions of others, the other, well, a guy wrote one stupid sentence in a book no one, not even you has read.

Exactly the same.


by Loreg on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 03:39:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: *BREAKING* Black Liberation Theology - Read an (none / 0)

what is the connection between this book and the Obama campaign?


by routerdude on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 05:44:52 AM EST

Re: *BREAKING* Black Liberation Theology - Read an (1.00 / 1)

routerdude

"what is the connection between this book and the Obama campaign?

Obama is an outspoken adherent of BLT.  Of course, he was most likely politically posturing for the local AA population when he made the claim.

Regardless, its a very relevant question, considering that Obama wants to 'unite' us and 'heal' our racial wounds.


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 06:25:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: *BREAKING* Black Liberation Theology - Read an (none / 0)

Looking at the poll, i notice that there are four people here who think that:

"Black theology will accept only the love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy"

...is not a racist doctrine.

It's amazing.  Are all Obamatons really just freepers in disguise?


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 06:27:34 AM EST

Re: *BREAKING* Black Liberation Theology - Read an (none / 0)

That's very smart of you.  It must hard to find the right words to defend racism.


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 06:57:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm a supporter of Hillary Clinton (2.00 / 1)

However, I'm also one of those increasingly rare animals that think Barack Obama would make a great president (probably not as effective as Hillary, but that's another post).
I can certainly say that phrase sounds racist when taken out of context. However, once you glean a basic understanding of what black theology actually is, and that when talking about black and white, it's not talking about skin color, you realize it's a progressive view rather than a racist one.
The only part I have problems with is Cone's acceptance of violence as a means to an end.

Revolution and Violence. I would be remiss to close this discussion of James Cone without noting his views on revolution and violence. Cone defines liberation as the "emancipation of black people from white oppression by whatever means black people deem necessary."[42] This definition would seem to allow for the use of violence.

Cone does not advocate armed revolution against white society. But some violence, he says, seems unavoidable. He points out that "the Christian does not decide between violence and nonviolence, evil and good. He decides between the lesser and the greater evil. He must ponder whether revolutionary violence is less or more deplorable than the violence perpetuated by the system."[43] Injustice, slave labor, hunger, and exploitation are all violent forms that must be considered against the cost of revolutionary violence.

http://home.earthlink.net/~ronrhodes/Bla ckTheology.html


"Who are you for? That is the wrong question. It should be who is for you?" HRC
by skohayes on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 07:46:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm a supporter of Hillary Clinton (1.50 / 2)

"I can certainly say that phrase sounds racist when taken out of context."

I can't imagine any context where that phrase would sound non-racist.

Maybe you'd like to make up a few, and I'll tell you if I think theyd fly.


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 07:53:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

At this point (none / 0)

you really are willfully ignorant.


Because I wont trade humanity for patriotism!
by Drewid on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 08:26:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm a supporter of Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

You haven't read the book, so out of context is the only context you've got.


by Loreg on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 08:27:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

More from Cone (2.00 / 0)

"Being black in America has very little to do with skin color. To be black means that your heart, your soul, your mind, and your body are where the dispossessed are. ... Being reconciled to God does not mean that one's skin is physically black. It essentially depends on the color of your heart, soul, and mind." Black Liberation and Black Power

So, if Black is being used by Cone as a metaphor, not a description of skin color, and White is a metaphor, not a description of skin color, is it still racism?


by Loreg on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 07:21:25 AM EST

Re: *BREAKING* Black Liberation Theology (2.00 / 1)

You know, I don't understand taking a few sentences out of a book and judging someone based on those few lines is really what Democrats are  about.
I've read a little bit about black theology, how it came about, the framing and it makes sense to me.

In the second sense, "black" and "white" relate not to skin pigmentation but to "one's attitude and action toward the liberation of the oppressed black people from white racism."[25] Blackness is thus "an ontological symbol for all people who participate in the liberation of man from oppression."[26] Seen in this light, "blackness" can be attributed to people who do not have black skin but who do work for liberation.

By contrast, "whiteness" in Cone's thought symbolizes the ethnocentric activity of "madmen sick with their own self-concept" and thus blind to that which ails them and oppresses others. Whiteness symbolizes sickness and oppression. White theology is therefore viewed as a theological extension of that sickness and oppression.[27]


http://home.earthlink.net/~ronrhodes/Bla ckTheology.html

Sounds like most Progressives' view of corporatist republicans versus the normal every day working American.
Maybe you should do some more reading, and come back when you have a better grip on the subject.


"Who are you for? That is the wrong question. It should be who is for you?" HRC
by skohayes on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 07:36:07 AM EST

Re: *BREAKING* Black Liberation Theology (2.00 / 1)

Come on! Reading is hard! It's MUCH easier to take the one paragraph and quote that to denigrate the guy.

It's made all that much easier since Newsmax has already done the requisite distorting!


by Loreg on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 07:38:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: *BREAKING* Black Liberation Theology (none / 0)

"Maybe you should do some more reading, and come back when you have a better grip on the subject."

Maybe you should try to be a little more realistic, and not sound so naive.

There is no context where this phrase could be considered anything but horribly racist.


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 07:55:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: *BREAKING* Black Liberation Theology (2.00 / 1)

What if the paragraph before said, "Here's what stupid people might say Black Liberation Theology is about..."?

I'm not saying it does, since I haven't read the book, but, then again, you haven't read the book either.

Saying there's no imaginable context that makes the sentence sound not racist says more about the paucity of your imagination than anything else!


by Loreg on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 08:21:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Good faith effort (none / 0)

There are other sources than this one sentence from a book 40 years ago about Black Liberation Theology. You'd think that in order to answer the poll, you'd have to look at at least one of those other sources. Here, for example, is a paragraph from the Washington post:

"To his supporters, the message Wright wove through more than 4,000 sermons is now disseminated in a handful of grainy, two-minute video clips that tell only part of his story. Yes, they acknowledge, he was sometimes overcome at the pulpit by a righteous rage about racism and social injustice. But he was a radical who also inspired women to preach, gays to marry and predominantly white youth groups to visit his services. Until he retired last month, Wright, 66, implored all comers at Trinity to "get happy" -- to shout, to sing, to dance in the aisles while he preached the gospel."

He doesn't sound racist from that sentence, does he?

So, we've got one sentence from his spiritual mentor (one sentence from one of his 8 books) and one sentence from the Washington post. Who to believe?


by Loreg on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 08:47:16 AM EST

Can We Get "switching sides" (1.00 / 0)

...warned or banned? It is one thing to invite respectful discourse and discussion.  it is quite another to soak a sponge in kerosene, light it, then throw it and call it a merry snowball.


by a gunslinger on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 10:33:08 AM EST

Re: *BREAKING* Black Liberation Theology - Read an (none / 0)

I am commenting merely to note the absurd usage of the "breaking" tag here.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 10:58:03 AM EST

Re: *BREAKING* Black Liberation Theology - Read an (none / 0)

Once again this diary, as well as your other one, should be deleted out of ignorance... you are throwing Countee Cullen, James Cone, Katie Cannon, and Cornell West under a bus - with no reason.  Thank you Clinton supporters who stood up against this crap.

As I've said before.  Cone was Niebuhr's best student...Cone has taught many of today's best theologians white and black... Cone is a mentor of close friends of mine... I have read his books, heard his lectures...

You are taking one sentence completely out of context.  This is wrong!


Bring Back MyDD - Just say No to Rec'ing Candidate Diaries.
by CardBoard on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 11:02:13 AM EST

Re: *BREAKING* Black Liberation Theology - Read an (none / 0)

Does this even qualify as a diary?


No Way. No How. No McCain.
by Denny Crane on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 11:06:33 AM EST


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