Riddle Me This, Batman (Michigan and Florida)

I see a lot of righteous fire from Hillary Clinton supporters about the Michigan and Florida situation, laying a lot of blame on Obama.  And if Obama does something to prevent revotes, it's a fair criticism.  

At present, that doesn't appear to be the case at present.  Florida fell through for practical and legal reasons entirely independent from Obama (indeed, the whole Congressional delegation -- Clinton supporters included -- came out against the mail-in vote, which was the only really practical option).  In Michigan, the situation has yet to be resolved.  I see a lot of heat from the Clinton campaign that Obama is to blame, but on today's call, Ickes was completely unable to identify any real facts about anything Obama has done to stand in the way.  Moreover, it appears GOP opposition may be insurmountable, and you can't blame Barack for that.  All that said, if a Michigan revote is possible but falls apart because of Obama, I completely agree that's blameworthy.  As of yet, though, those aren't the facts.

The facts, at present, is that Clinton is hurling charges of disenfranchisement that almost certainly will come back to hurt the party if there is no revote -- and even if there is.  Yet this situation did not spring fully formed from the head of Zeus.  The penalties against Michigan and Florida were set months ago, and Clinton agreed (as did all the other candidates) not to "participate" in those contests.  Harold Ickes voted for them, and he has expressly defended his decision, on the ground that the DNC needed to reign in states that were jumping too early.  And, like any organization (or any parent!) if it doesn't enforce the rules this time, then in the future the rules will be meaningless.

My question is this:  If this situation is disenfranchisement, and if it represents an injustice, and if it represents such a threat to the democrats chances in November, why didn't Clinton speak out on this before her loss in South Carolina?  If there was any single person in the party who was really in a position to challenge the DNC and let Florida and Michigan vote early in permitted contests, it was her.  And similarly, why did Ickes vote to put this situation in place if its such bad general election strategy, as he now claims?

Maybe there is a good reason.  If so, I'd love to hear it.  But without such an explanation, isn't there a real concern about her tactics here?



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Re: Riddle Me This, Batman (Michigan and Florida) (none / 0)

Very strange. I've posed the same question perhaps 15 times at various sites. I've never received a single answer. Go figure.


by tharr on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 02:21:10 AM EST

Re: Riddle Me This, Batman (Michigan and Florida) (none / 0)

It has become too tiresome answering all these "innocent" please tell me why diaries.

If you don't know for a fact that Obama has been behind the obstruction, then you are just not paying attention.

I'll link you here:

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/3/12/2013 22/077

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/3/11/1929 43/754

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/3/10/1323 38/341

and there is lots more current stuff... just do a little research. It's been going on for more than a week.

By the way, this tactic, that you don't believe anything unless someone else spends the time to explain it to you in detail with pictures and arrows and then you say it is not enough proof just reminds me of your candidate.


by MediaFreeze on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 02:56:15 AM EST

Re: Riddle Me This, Batman (Michigan and Florida) (none / 0)

None of these diaries explain in any way why Hillary, for all her current righteous indigination, agreed to not participate in these non-sanctioned primaries and why she failed to do anything to prevent the penalties, though she was the only one that could.  Isn't it a fair question?

And frankly, those diaries are all smoke and no fire.  There is not a single bit of evidence that Obama did anything other than attempt to make sure reasonable concerns about the fairness and legitimacy of the revotes were addressed.  Hillary doesn't appear to care if the revotes have a reasonable and respectable process; if they don't happen she can't win, so even another Florida fiasco is better for her than nothing.  


by OaktownDad on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 06:33:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I don't understand (none / 0)

...how "GOP opposition" in Michigan is something relevant to the Democratic Party nomination process. Or even the Florida Congressional Democrats.

Can't parties run their nomination however they want, without veto power from the State legislatures?


by techfidel on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 07:14:49 AM EST

Re: I don't understand (none / 0)

No.  It's a state-run primary, requiring state legislative support.  They need a 2/3 legislative majority in MI to make it happen.


by OaktownDad on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 06:28:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Revote (none / 0)

"And if Obama does something to prevent revotes, it's a fair criticism."

I agree, but with the caveat that Obama need not agree to voting procedures that unfairly prejudice his candidacy just to avoid being labelled an obstructionist.  The MI proposal unfairly disenfranchises many Democratic Obama supporters who voted in the Republican primary because their candidate was not on the ballot on the Democratic side.  Obama would be right to object to retroactively barring these people from voting because of an action they took at a time when a future Democratic primary was not even under consideration.


by DreamsOfABlueNation on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 09:27:45 AM EST


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