John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton

Things continue to go Hillary Clinton's way in Pennsylvania.

From Anne Kornblut:

Rep. John P. Murtha has announced his endorsement of Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, bringing his clout as a 17-term member of the House and a prominent anti-war Democrat to bear with more than a month until the primary here in his home state.

"Sen. Clinton is the candidate that will forge a consensus on health care, education, the economy, and the war in Iraq," Murtha wrote in a statement about his decision. [...]

"Her experience and careful consideration of these issues convinced me that she is best qualified to lead our nation and to bring credibility back to the White House," Murtha said. He said he "whole-heartedly" recommends Clinton to all voters in his state.

Interesting that he would focus his endorsement statement on consensus building, i.e. Obama's turf, rather than being "ready at day one" or her readiness as commander in chief, which Kornblut makes a point of saying is the focus of Clinton's appearances this week.

And for those counting at home, that's another superdelegate in Clinton's column. I'm sure the superdelegate concern trolls throughout the blogosphere will be heralding this addition any second now...



Display:


Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (2.00 / 1)

about time hillary gains one


by beachbum bob on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 08:59:58 PM EST

Actually she got two today (2.00 / 1)

One from WV too.


by ineedalife on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 09:18:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Actually she got two today (none / 0)

Yay!  Only an almost impossible percentage of the rest to go!!


Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 09:47:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Actually she got two today (none / 0)

WRONG!  Superdelegates can switch at any time.  If Hillary finishes strong and Obama is tanking, she could be 100 down in pledged delegates and is already up about 50 in supers.  It wouldn't take much at that point for her momentum to bring a +60 in currently unallocated supers or in switching supers.

Obama needs to win another major primary--and no, this doesn't mean Montana or South Dakota.


by Thaddeus on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:02:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Actually she got two today (none / 0)

Does it mean North Carolina?  Because he'll almost certainly win that.  And probably Oregon, as well.


by jlk7e on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:04:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Actually she got two today (none / 0)

North Carolina is really important and might be enough.  Oregon obviously not as major a state.  You can just count electoral votes.  

It also depends a lot on what happens with MI and FL, don't you think?


by Thaddeus on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:06:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Actually she got two today (none / 0)

Looks more and more like nothing will happen.  I think Obama would be quite likely to win a real primary in Michigan, but that Clinton would also be competitive, and that Clinton should easily win Florida, but it looks like neither is going to happen.  My sense is that the fairest thing would be to have a 50/50 Michigan delegation and to halve the florida delegation to give Clinton +19.  That seems to map fairly reasonably on to what polls suggest that result of real contests would be.

But, again, unlikely to be new contests there (unfortunately).

At any rate, Obama is going to win North Carolina, barring an act of God.  If winning NC is all he needs to do to secure the nomination, then the chances of Clinton winning are already close to infinitesimal.  But I don't think Clinton would drop out on May 6 if she wins Indiana but loses North Carolina.  the only realistic prospect of a Clinton drop-out before the end of the primaries that I can see is big Obama victories in both North Carolina and Indiana.  But I think even if he loses Indiana he'll probably still be the nominee - the math is too tough for Clinton, unless Obama totally implodes.


by jlk7e on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 12:08:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Actually she got two today (none / 0)

50/50 split in MI is the dumbest thing I have heard of. It still denies the people their voice. I say give Clinton her delegates and give Obama all the "Uncommitted" delegates then halve it for both states.


Restore America's Strength.
by RJEvans on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 12:23:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Actually she got two today (2.00 / 0)

Well, if I lived in Michigan and didn't vote because I heard it wouldn't count I'd be upset if they later decided to count the votes. That is what I would call disenfranchising people. I think a lot of people in MI would be upset if they decided to count the votes as is or any other way without a revote.
by Becky G on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 12:57:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Actually she got two today (none / 0)

I'm not sure how that qualifies as a democratic outcome.


by jlk7e on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 12:03:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Actually she got two today (2.00 / 0)

yeah, I know the avalanche has been remarkable so far.


Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:42:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (1.00 / 2)

I thought Hillary had already lost.

I guess Murtha doesn't read Kos.  I dunno.

But although I am personally post-racial,  I now know that I can no more disown my whites only country club than I can disown the entire white race.  Thank you Obama.


by dMarx on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 10:06:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (1.00 / 1)

Why would Murtha do this?

He knows Hillary can't win a nomination without overturning the delegates chosen by the people.  With a tainted nomination, Hillary wouldn't be able to defeat McCain.

Obama can still win a clean nomination but it's far from certain that Hillary partisans will accept the legitimacy of his victory.  Any of them who don't fall in line will be a great benefit to McCain.

Any Democrat who really cares about our nation's future and electing a Democrat in November would be endorsing Obama and working to grow his margin as large as possible to prove his legitimacy even to the most partisan Hillary backers.  

To stay quiet is irresponsible but to endorse Hillary at this late date is shockingly abusive and undermines our viability as a party and the security of our nation's future.

Why would Rep. Murtha do that?


Read Brian's Utah Weblog
by Brian Watkins on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:40:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

Typical pundit analysis.  It's all about the horse race.

Could it possibly be that he feels that she'll be a better president?

Good Lord, if anyone endorses anyone but Obama, the world will certainly come to an end...


by Dave B on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 12:08:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (2.00 / 1)

To stay quiet is irresponsible but to endorse Hillary at this late date is shockingly abusive and undermines our viability as a party and the security of our nation's future.

So, Murtha and the rest of the supers must endorse Obama or they don;t care about the party?

Comments like this just infuriate me. jack Murtha is shockingly abusive because he made up his own mind instead of doing what you wanted him to do?  

I'm really hoping this is snark or otherwise the arrogance is off the charts.


"It pays to be obvious, especially if you have a reputation for subtlety". Salvor Hardin
by Denny Crane on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 12:17:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

Murtha's endorsement is pure political backstabbing and has nothing to do with the merits of Senators Clinton or Obama.

Murtha has been engaged in a (pardon the indelicacy) pissing match with Speaker Pelosi for quite some time now. Since Pelosi is leaning towards Senator Obama, Murtha does the opposite and goes for Senator Clinton.


by brucearmstrong1 on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 12:22:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

Oh, well.  That at least is a legitimate motive.


Read Brian's Utah Weblog
by Brian Watkins on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 12:24:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

Yeah, but Pennsylvania doesn't count.

The campaigns are swapping strategies, right?


Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 09:00:08 PM EST

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

Based on what?  Making stuff up?


McCain = Iraq. John McCain = overturn Roe.
by PantsB on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 09:11:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)


Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 09:38:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (1.00 / 1)

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton ( / )

Um, the narrative so far out of the Obama campaign has been "we offer unity and a different politics to America" and the Clinton campaign keeps acting like certain states don't count.  So, as the diary points out, it would appear that Jack Murtha has co-opted the Obama strategy.  The snark is that that would leave Obama supporters with the meme that whatever state is about to not go there way doesn't count (swapping strategies, see Fig. A below).  Let me know if I'm going to fast for you here.

What've you been under a fucking rock for a couple of months now?

Fig A:

Hilary strategy                         Obama Strategy

    A                                                      B

swapped it would look like

    B                                                      A

Get it or should I fax you a drawing?


Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 09:45:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

My bad, I misunderstood nt (2.00 / 1)


McCain = Iraq. John McCain = overturn Roe.
by PantsB on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 09:49:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (1.50 / 2)

WHAT are you smoking?!?!?!????!?!?

LOL

Please continue explaining....


Hillary/Obama08
by annefrank on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 09:53:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

I am not going to waste logic on a person who thinks the frontrunner should take the VP spot.


Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 09:59:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

Any claims to frontrunner status for Obama have gone out the window since the Wright affair exploded.

Should he actually succeed in wresting the nomination from Hillary through whatever claims of racism or injustice, I know I can't be the only liberal Dem who's unwilling to expend time, energy and money on behalf of a third losing Presidential candidacy in a row. Not when we could have had a winning candidate lead us over the finish line.


by SoCalHillMan on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 10:57:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

No offense, but unless you're a paid advisor to someone's campaign, it's a little ridiculous to be making all of these proclamations about who definitely will or won't win in November.  Particularly when you're putting all of your chips on one story that may or may not have legs, a week after it broke.  


by rfahey22 on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:02:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

Yeah, what rfahey22 said!


Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:09:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

He's currently ahead in any metric you care to measure, and you are talking about him 'wresting' the nomination from Clinton?


by tysonpublic on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:14:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

Someday when more than an outlier poll shows her outperforming Obama you should plug that statement in.  You see statements carry more weight when the facts support them.  

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for the day where your fantasy and reality collide if I were you though.  


Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:15:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

Just trying to be fair and balanced.


Hillary/Obama08
by annefrank on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 07:53:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (2.00 / 1)

why do you have to be so obnoxious?


by Thaddeus on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:07:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

I was replying to an accusation of making shit up.

Also, how can I make it fun for Hilary supporters to hear that their McCain surrogate of a candidate has lost?


Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 12:36:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (2.00 / 3)

Those that think she has no path to the nomination should think again


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 09:01:08 PM EST

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (2.00 / 1)

Of course she does.

Step 1:

Invent time machine

Step 2:

Buy Diebold

....


Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 09:03:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It makes sense that he would.. (2.00 / 2)

Good for him.

Its obvious that Hillary is doing MUCH better than many on DailyKos and here would have people believe.

She clearly is the most viable Dem. candidate at this point.


public option=not affordable for middle. It cant cover all affordably, google adverse selection for why
by architek on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 09:20:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It makes sense that he would.. (none / 0)

Does having any chance at all of winning the nomination factor into what you consider viability?

Given the revelations of the last 2 days concerning the failure of Hilary's attempts to make the 2 sham primaries count she'd better win PA something like 85 to 15 or something.  Or don't you see little obstacles like not being the nominee as a detriment to her viability?


Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 09:44:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It makes sense that he would.. (none / 0)

What you consider "sham," many consider necessary to a November electoral win.  It is more than reckless to toss off Florida and Michigan so easily now.  We Democrats need them in November.  One maxim I've always abided by: Be careful how you treat someone when on the way up because you will meet them on the way down.  While that might not be entirely apropos of the presenet delegate-seating dispute, what is clear is that to treat those 2 states with disregard now will be more than repaid to our detriment in November.  (And, no, later nice-nice won't cut it.) It isn't a matter of we "should" work out a solution acceptable to those states; but--like it or not--the real electoral reality is that we have no choice but to do so.


by christinep on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:14:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It makes sense that he would.. (none / 0)

Michigan goes blue in November regardless.  Florida does not... as usual.  I don't see what's so damned purple about Florida.   Ohio goes blue regardless of who gets the nomination.  Virginia goes blue if Obama is the nominee along with Missourri.  North Carolina becomes a swing state only if Obama is the nominee.  

Oh  yeah, and conservative turn out in the GE remains low unless they feel the need to go vote against a Clinton.  It's irrational so it should make sense to Hilary's supporters, but the conservatives think Hilary is the worst scourge in the history of the world.  They'll sit on their asses rather than vote for McCain, but they'll vote for McCain rather than let Hilary win.


Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:26:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It makes sense that he would.. (none / 0)

didnt we lose in 04 b/c of Ohio?


ginaswo
by ginaswo on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 12:59:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It makes sense that he would.. (none / 0)

Exactly, and the SDs are looking at all that info you just mentioned. I assume winning in November is the top priority for most of them, not all kinds of emotional issues most of us get around here into.
by Becky G on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 01:05:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)


Or, it might work like this.  Superdelegates can switch at any time.  If Hillary finishes strong and Obama is tanking, she could be 100 down in pledged delegates and is already up about 50 in supers.  It wouldn't take much at that point for her momentum to bring a +60 in currently unallocated supers or in switching supers.
by Thaddeus on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:09:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

Superdelegates can switch at any time.

Uh, all delegates are not bound to vote a particular way on any ballot. That's one of the reasons campaigns have the right to approve [pdf] individuals running for delegate slots.

12. D. Prior to the selection of national convention delegates and alternates, the state party shall convey to the presidential candidate, or that candidate's authorized representative(s), a list of all persons who have filed for delegate or alternate positions pledged to that presidential candidate. All such delegate and alternate candidates shall be considered bona fide supporters of the presidential candidate whom they have pledged to support, unless the presidential candidate, or that candidate's authorized representative(s), signifies otherwise in writing to the state party by a date certain as specified in the state's Delegate Selection Plan.

Getting back to elected delegates:

12. J. Delegates elected to the national convention pledged to a presidential candidate shall in all good conscience reflect the sentiments of those who elected them.
[emphasis added]
Think of 12.J. as the "Whoops! A funny thing happened on the long road to the convention..." clause. They'll just have to explain why they did so when they get back home.


543,895 votes
by Michael Bersin on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:38:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

I suppose it depends on what your definition of "tanking" is.  What would be required for Clinton to win is for those superdelegates to move, as a group, to her column.  It would presumably take more of an effort to get them to do so if the supers had no credible yardstick to fall back on in making what would definitely be a controversial decision, such as the popular vote or pledged delegates.  It is easy for them to vote for the person that is winning in either or both of those categories, and at the end of the day that is probably all it would take to win their votes.


by rfahey22 on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:45:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

Please don't hold your breath waiting for this to happen.   You won't survive for me to laugh at later.


Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:45:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

Oh Lori, please, care to share this clear path with the rest of the class? I can't wait!


by craigk724 on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 09:10:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (2.00 / 1)

Step 1 John Murtha endorses Hillary.

Step 3 Win the Nomination!

Its step 2 thats tricky.


McCain = Iraq. John McCain = overturn Roe.
by PantsB on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 09:12:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

I thought it was:

Step 1: Steal underpants
Step 3: Profit!

Really people - the Democrats are going to have to figure out who the nominee is.  We can vote, blog, and pontificate all we want, but technically speaking, until either candidate reaches 2025 or 2024 delegates or whatever, it is still "game on".

Just like in baseball, at the end of the season - there is a magic number - that is the point at which one team clinches and the other is mathematically eliminated.  Until then, either team can win.  Obama's "magic number" is now 400 or so, Hillary's is 500 or so - neither one of them is very close and neither one of them can win without the help of the party leaders.

If the Yankess have won 80 games, and the Red Sox have won 75, and there are still 40 games to go, then all bets are off.  

Add to that the fact that this is politics, not math or baseball, and these delegates can change their minds, really anything can happen!


by mikes101 on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 09:24:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

Great Point!!  If they're not going to seat Florida and/or Michigan, they need to lower the required delegate count.  


by chewie5656 on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:37:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

No (none / 0)

2024 is the number with Michigan and Florida excluded.  If they are included, it goes up to 2208, or some such.


by jlk7e on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:55:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

Except that these contests are zero sum, whereas your baseball analogy is not.  Basically, any reasonable conception of the delegate count as it goes from here, assuming we exclude Michigan and Florida, looks approximately the following.  Here's a fairly pro-Clinton prospectus
7
Current pledged delegate count, per Chuck Todd: Obama +157

Pennsylvania: Clinton +20
Indiana: Clinton +5
North Carolina: Obama +4
Oregon: Obama +2
West Virginia: Clinton +10
Kentucky: Clinton +11
Puerto Rico: Clinton +11
South Dakota: Obama +1
Montana: Obama +2

I think this is unrealistically Clinton friendly, but the upshot is that Clinton gains +48 in the rest of the contests, for a final pledged delegate score of +111 Obama

Per Todd, again, this would result in aproximate pledged delegate totals of the following (I think I made an adding mistake somewhere here, though:

Clinton: 1557
Obama: 1668

Now, add in the current superdelegate numbers from MSNBC - 253 to 217 (this may be pre-Murtha)

Clinton: 1810
Obama: 1885

Now, let's add in the unpledged add-on delegates chosen by state conventions, assuming that those posts will go based on who won the state, as is likely.  23 to 7 Obama, for new totals of...

Clinton: 1817
Obama: 1908

This means that out of the 295 remaining superdelegates and unpledged add-ons chosen by state executive committees, Obama only needs to win 116 (39.3%) to get the nomination. Clinton would need 207 (70.1%).  (This might not be quite right, but it gives the basic lay of the land).  That's a pretty tall order, although obviously not completely impossible.  Of course we also know that several of the undeclared superdelegates, like Pelosi or Donna Brazile, are pretty clearly going to support Obama if he has a pledged delegate lead, so that means that Clinton actually has to win an even higher percentage of the even smaller pie of truly uncommitted superdelegates.

And that's more or less a best case scenario for Clinton, in terms of how the late primaries go.  It's quite likely that Clinton will not get 20 delegates out of Pennsylvania, that she will lose Indiana, that Obama will get considerably more than five delegates out of North Carolina, and more than the very small number I gave him in Oregon, Montana, and South Dakota.  One could just as easily envision a scenario where Obama, for instance, wins 1700 pledged delegates instead of 1668.

In that case, the numbers are as follows:

Pledged Delegates -
Obama: 1700
Clinton: 1525

Pledged delegates + already endorsed superdelegates -

Obama: 1917
Clinton: 1778

+unpledged add-ons selected at state conventions -

Obama: 1939
Clinton: 1785

Now Obama is only 85 delegates away from the nomination, while Clinton is 239 delegates away.  That's gonna be really hard to swing.

Those are probably close to the outside range of reasonable possibilities for how the rest of the primary contests go.  But basically, we go from at worst, a situation where it's virtually impossible to see how Clinton could win; to, at best, a situation where it is very difficult to see how Clinton could win.

She could win, but I have a hard time seeing exactly how it would happen.

Certainly, it's really close, historically, and I don't really begrudge her staying in - campaigns always convince themselves they still have a shot.   But that's no reason for those of us not actually in the campaign to convince ourselves of falsehoods.  The basic fact is that the math says this is an extremely tough row to hoe for Clinton, and it doesn't seem like there's anything that's likely to change that.

If we must use sports analogies, i suggest the following: we're kind of at that point in the basketball game when there's not really enough time left on the clock for the team that's behind to catch up in the normal way, so they have to keep fouling and hoping their opponent misses their free throws to have any chance to win.  It's still technically possible to win, but the chances are getting less and less with each free throw the winning team makes.


by jlk7e on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:47:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

Don't you mean either 29% for Obama or 60% for Clinton?


by rfahey22 on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 12:11:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

I don't think so.


by jlk7e on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 12:04:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (2.00 / 1)

Hillary has to win Pennsylvania decisively, and then win both Indiana and North Carolina, not either but both states.  

The only chance of defeating McCain is Hillary Clinton, despite Obama's speech today.


by mikelow1885 on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 09:20:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (1.66 / 3)

I think like another poster said that the superdelegates are trying to move away from Obama after the wright debacle and are trying not to make it look like a stampede.

The speech will make no difference.


No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!
by Ga6thDem on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 09:22:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)


by leshrac55 on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:14:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

Yes... Clearly that's what's happening.  The stampede of 2 has begun!


by leshrac55 on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:15:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

Probably has to win Indiana, but I'm thinking a close loss in NC (closer than any other southern state) would suffice.


by DaveOinSF on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 09:30:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

..and that path is????


by tysonpublic on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:15:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (2.00 / 1)

So the earmark King endorses the earmark Queen...I'm shocked I tell you shocked!  Evidently this is a group Murtha can do 'business' with.


by conqdad on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 09:07:57 PM EST

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

So she's one for thirty-seven?  At this rate Obama's got a lock.


by Shaun Appleby on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 09:08:35 PM EST

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (2.00 / 3)

Except the rates and the momentum seem to be changing right now.  She's got nearly half of the votes.  It's not like she's WAY behind or anything, and there's still a lot of voters out there who haven't voted yet.

Why on earth should she step out at this point?

Of course I know the answer:  to suit you.

Would she not betray the milions upon millions of voters who have voted for, contributed to, and supported her all this time?  Now THAT would be not fair.

She's always been known to be a fighter until the end.  Can Obama and you guys just not handle a long, drawn-out competition?  I know she can.

The methods used on both sides are standard election methods.  Obama has NOT differentiated himself, whatsoever, as a new kind of politics candidate. He uses the same rules, and perhaps even more so.

I'm not convinced, and I, myself, like the nearly half of the Country's Democrats, feel the same way.

We'll just have to see where it goes from here.  It's by far from over, and get used to it.


It does not take many words to tell the truth Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
by Gabriele Droz on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 09:19:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Actually, its now slightly more than half.. (2.00 / 1)

Hillary has pulled ahead of Obama in nationwide polling again.

see pollingreport.com


public option=not affordable for middle. It cant cover all affordably, google adverse selection for why
by architek on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 09:21:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Actually, its now slightly more than half.. (none / 0)

That's ONE poll posted on that site showing Clinton ahead in the national line-up.

See compilations/averages of polls -
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/polls/
http://www.pollster.com/08-US-Dem-Pres-P rimary.php


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 09:52:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Actually, its now slightly more than half.. (none / 0)

Nationwide polling is irrelevant, anyway, when only 10 contests are left.  It's, at best, a marginal indicator of overall momentum.

Even if she has "pulled ahead", the trend on most of these polls has been trading back and forth for a long time... typically with Obama still leading slightly, and Clinton never leading by more than the margin of error.

But again, it doesn't matter, particularly not now when the next contest is 4 weeks away.  


by leshrac55 on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:18:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (2.00 / 2)

She picked up one in WV today too. It's just that the blogosphere doesn't have an O-gasm everytime someone announces for Hillary.


by ineedalife on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 09:20:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

This is somewhat interesting considering how Pelosi appears to be trending toward Obama. Either Murtha is being his own man here or there has been some rumbling in the house caucus.


by hctb on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 09:08:58 PM EST

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

Did you forget that Murtha was going to become the Majority Leader?  What happened there?

Earmarks..


"Behold, I send you out as sheep amidst the wolves! Therefore, be as wise as a serpent, And as harmless as a dove."
by Setrak on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 09:13:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (1.50 / 2)

uh... that was Nancy and a power play. It didn't work. Murtha's ethics problems move far beyond earmarks.


by hctb on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 09:29:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (2.00 / 1)

Probably lots of rumbling underground about the Wright debacle.


No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!
by Ga6thDem on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 09:24:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (2.00 / 1)

Oh noooo - that's all over now. America has moved on.
It was merely another Teflon moment for Obama and Wright will never be mentioned again.

Hillary/Obama08
by annefrank on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 09:46:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (2.00 / 1)

Unless he's the nominee and then it will be Obama/Wright and Obama/Rezko 24/7 from Sept til Nov.


No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!
by Ga6thDem on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 09:48:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Every McCain ad (2.00 / 1)

Will be to the tune of "God Bless America"


by DaveOinSF on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 10:03:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Every McCain ad (none / 0)

I literally dread Nov. if Obama's the nominee. The few times he's gone against the right wing and McCain he's lost. I expect that to continue.


No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!
by Ga6thDem on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 10:12:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Every McCain ad (none / 0)

Umm... except when he won, resoundingly I might add, his Senate seat.


by leshrac55 on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:20:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Every McCain ad (2.00 / 1)

RTFLMAO! Alan Keyes? LOL. No ones really dug into his baggage until these last few weeks.


No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!
by Ga6thDem on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:34:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Every McCain ad (none / 0)

Yeah, Keyes wasn't a tough opponent, no argument from you there.  I've said it before, but a monkey with a "D" next to his name probably could've beaten him.

But I don't think people were expecting quite the 70%-27% blowout victory when Keyes became his opponent.  I mean, he won a seat that was previously filled by conservative Republican ass-hat Patrick Fitzgerald, by 43 points, in what was basically a shitty year for Democrats. Like it or not, Democratic Senators are not a shoe-in in IL, and he earned that victory.

And, let's not forget that Clinton's Senate opponents weren't exactly the toughest targets either.  After Giuliani dropped out of the 2000 race, her race became substantially easier.  I don't think anyone considered her 2006 opponent serious at all.  And as one of the most popular and well-known Democrats of our time, she can't even win a primary that most thought inevitable against, an until now, mostly unknown candidate.  No, her record of "winning" doesn't inspire confidence in me.


by leshrac55 on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:52:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Every McCain ad (2.00 / 1)

Actually her record during the primary makes me think that she's a better general election candidate. I think a candidate that can win in OH and FL is a better general election candidate than one who is successful in caucuses in ID and WY. We aren't going to have a national caucus in Nov. and disenfranchising primary voters isn't something that I like either.


No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!
by Ga6thDem on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 07:00:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Every McCain ad (none / 0)

Better complain to the DNC, MI and FL leadership then, since Obama had no say in that "disenfranchisement".

And are we really back to this ridiculous argument?  Primary performance does NOT equate to general election performance.  Recent polling of OH and PA, among others, basically confirms this.  Besides, do we have a full primary season or not?  If the only states that matter are OH and FL, why bother with even doing a primary across the country?  Is it not worth hearing the voices of democrats across the whole country?

Not only that, Obama has won more "battleground" states than Clinton anyway.  The argument is moot, but it's the only thing keeping the Clinton campaign afloat these days... so I guess that's why it keeps coming up.


by leshrac55 on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 01:13:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

What I find delightful about this is that Murtha is a hero over a DKos.  I can't wait to see how they take him down now--and you can be shit sure that they will.


by Thaddeus on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:11:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

KO, Ted Kennedy, Kos, Howard Dean, the DNC, the party's best interests.

All people and things that have been torn down by Hilary supporters the very moment that they were found to be inconvenient you hypocrite.


Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:33:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

Oh for God's sake, Clinton supporters haven't torn down Ted Kennedy, Howard Dean or any of the others.  What crap!  You call mew a hypocrite and don't even know me nor can you make an intelligent argument.  With supporters like you, Obama doesn't need opponents.  


by Thaddeus on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 12:38:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

psst....

don't look now, but he's winning.

Innumerate too evidently.


Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 07:47:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

They will treat him the same as they have LC Johnson and Joe Wilson.  Once heros, now...


by Dave B on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 12:20:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

lol todd love the snark at the end.

eerie silence over "there"


by zane on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 09:09:29 PM EST

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

This is awesome news.


The Kentucky Democrat
by kydem on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 09:11:49 PM EST

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (2.00 / 2)

Murtha can't be happy be with Sen. Obama's focus on ethics reform and transparency in government, especially Sen. Obama's disdain for the role lobbyists play. I don't this one was ever in doubt.


by Benstrader on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 09:13:43 PM EST

Ethics reform, Obama, Rezko? (1.00 / 1)

Its been my observation that often those most vocal about ethics reform are the ones who need it the most themselves..

Its a common diversionary tactic.


public option=not affordable for middle. It cant cover all affordably, google adverse selection for why
by architek on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 09:23:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ethics reform, Obama, Rezko? (none / 0)

Let me know when Sen. Obama makes the list of the most corrupt members of Congress  

Funny how I've never observed  Duke Cunningham, Jerry Lewis, Ted Stevens, Don Young, William Jefferson, John Doolittle, or John Murtha being the most vocal about ethics reform.


by Benstrader on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 01:22:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ethics reform, Obama, Rezko? (none / 0)

Should John McCain's name be in there somewhere now?


by PadraigPearse on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 02:35:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Oh Jeebus (none / 0)

It's only because Murtha is so corruypt that he endorsed Hillary.  The Obama spinners could turn straw into gold, or at least convince themselves that they could.


by Thaddeus on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:12:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Speaking of spinners... (none / 0)

Only Mark Penn could turn gold into straw.

And the fact that Murtha is corrupt is not why he endorsed Hillary, it's simply why he fears Obama.


by Benstrader on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 01:26:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

The Worst Announcement of Endorsement Ever; (none / 0)

Why do I think this was the worst announcement ever?  The timing.  The day of Obama's speech?  Murtha KNEW that there'd be little attention paid to his endorsement of Senator Clinton.  It gives Clinton a lot less than it could've if it were made on, say, Wednesday or Thursday.  Why not next Monday?  Start the week on a high note.  Why make the announcement when it's going to be drown out?

Big get for Clinton, but like I said the timing is just awkward.


"Behold, I send you out as sheep amidst the wolves! Therefore, be as wise as a serpent, And as harmless as a dove."
by Setrak on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 09:17:08 PM EST

Re: The Worst Announcement of Endorsement Ever; (2.00 / 2)

Its all over the local news in Pennsylvania thats all she is concerned with


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 09:19:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

So.. (none / 0)

.. if the reason was to take control of the local media in Pennsylvania with coverage of the Murtha endorsement, does that mean they specifically wanted to blunt some coverage of the speech?

It's all about the timing.


"Behold, I send you out as sheep amidst the wolves! Therefore, be as wise as a serpent, And as harmless as a dove."
by Setrak on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 09:25:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So.. (none / 0)

could be , the timing is akward i agree, in terms of national news.

but it is the lead on the local news in terms of the political segment.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 09:32:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

How do you know? (none / 0)

You live in Kingsport, TN, not PA? How do you know what's playing on local TV in PA?


by elrod on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 12:37:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So.. (2.00 / 1)

Hard to believe, but the world doesn't entirely revolve around Obama and his every move.  There is an election going on in a state that is focused on the basic needs of survival, especially going into a recession big time.  Possibly, people in Pennsylvania would really rather focus on who will bring them health coverage, jobs, and everything else, instead of Obamas church habits, and his radical minister.  The area that Murtha represents is a depressed area to begin with, no telling what will happen to it economically in the next year.


by Scotch on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 09:34:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So.. (2.00 / 1)

I think you're absolutely right.  While it was a good speech/address, whatever you want to call it, it's not the most important issues that everyday Americans, like me, have to deal with.

Some day, very soon, will be the time, but NOT TODAY.

I want lower healthcare, higher wages, less property taxes.  Yes, I'm being selfish for my family and myself.  I want regulation in the credit card industry and mortgage industry.  AND I want to know that I won't be spied on, unless there's probably cause and the warrant is approved by a judge.  Not to mention that I want the 160,000 plus soldiers home with their families RIGHT NOW, and after a rest, I want them to go get Osama.


by gooderservice on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:22:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (2.00 / 1)

Question to the Obamatons:  Has it occurred to you that Mr. Murtha has endorsed Senator Clinton because he truly believes that she is the best, most qualified person running for the presidency?


Unity Ticket: The best damn way to kick John McCain's Ass in November!
by aurelius on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 09:17:21 PM EST

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (2.00 / 1)

Sure ... and the fact he loves pork and his state is trending towards a 15 point victory for her.  
I think his timing spoke volumes of what HE himself thought of the endorsement.  
Since Super Tuesday, Obama +47; Clinton -5.  
'The only people for me are the mad ones, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing ...'
by stryan on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 09:25:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (1.00 / 4)

And earmarks! They both L-O-V-E earmarks! Pork dinner with Hilldog and Johnny M., baby!


by craigk724 on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 09:27:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (1.50 / 2)

Please don't add "dog" to Hillary's name.  That's really offensive.  It means woman + dog = bitch. Up your level of discourse please.


Unity Ticket: The best damn way to kick John McCain's Ass in November!
by aurelius on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 09:37:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

Please don't refer to Senator Clinton only by her first name.  Its infantilizing.

Are you serious?


McCain = Iraq. John McCain = overturn Roe.
by PantsB on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 09:48:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

Her campaign signs say Hillary!


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 09:54:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

Hillary is used in this campaign to distinguish which Clinton is being referred to. Since there are two of them, it would make for a confusing campaign.  I would ordinary object to it, too, but in this case, I think it is necessary and people generally can figure out why it is her first name that is being used.


by Scotch on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 09:57:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (2.00 / 1)

Referring to Obama supporters as "Obamatons" isn't exactly upping the level of discourse either.  Both Obama and Clinton supporters need to start acting like adults and realize that we're all on the same team here.


And so, may evil beware and may good dress warmly and eat lots of fresh vegetables.
by thatpurplestuff on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 09:57:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

Touche.


Unity Ticket: The best damn way to kick John McCain's Ass in November!
by aurelius on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 10:00:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

Delegate majority? Gone. Majority of states won? Gone. Popular vote? Gone. Florida? Gone. Michigan? Gone. Integrity? Gone. Superdelegate edge? Diminishing in droves. Murtha? Yeeeaaahh baby, the "comeback kid" is back! ... NOT.


*VOTE DEMOCRAT! - HRC or BHO* Obama '08 - Full of reason / Hillary '08 - Full of treason (Gallup Poll, March 26 2008) / McCain '08 - Diaper's full of Bushit.
by VT COnQuest on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 09:24:59 PM EST

Re: John Murtha (2.00 / 2)

We'll see. The Democratic Party will be truly stupid to not nominate the winner of PA, OH and FL

BEYOND stupid


by rossinatl on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 09:27:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha (none / 0)

Nice call on PA there. Were you, as Hillary was, delusional enough to believe that she would be the nominee by February 5th? Obama will turn states that Hillary can't touch that will more than make up for FL which screwed themselves this time around. And Ohio? Obama will carry that state EASILY now that the Canadian parliament has apologized for inappropriately accusing BHO's surrogate of "double-talking" on NAFTA and has now clearly stated that it was HRC's camp that was doing the double (or in HRC's case, two-faced) talk. BHO's re-visit to that state and making sure that everyone knows what she did is gonna be FUN!


*VOTE DEMOCRAT! - HRC or BHO* Obama '08 - Full of reason / Hillary '08 - Full of treason (Gallup Poll, March 26 2008) / McCain '08 - Diaper's full of Bushit.
by VT COnQuest on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 09:48:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha (none / 0)

Ummmm......I hate to burst your bubble but you have no guarantee (and diminishing factual support therefor) that BHO will win so decisively.  Not that it is impossible, but I think you are being a bit overly optimistic in your predictions.


Unity Ticket: The best damn way to kick John McCain's Ass in November!
by aurelius on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 10:04:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha (none / 0)

Name 1 category that HRC is ahead in... besides not being ahead.


*VOTE DEMOCRAT! - HRC or BHO* Obama '08 - Full of reason / Hillary '08 - Full of treason (Gallup Poll, March 26 2008) / McCain '08 - Diaper's full of Bushit.
by VT COnQuest on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:57:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha (none / 0)

The popular vote.  (Unless you don't want to count those two states called Michigan and Florida).


Unity Ticket: The best damn way to kick John McCain's Ass in November!
by aurelius on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 03:39:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha (none / 0)

I would really like to know which states Obama can put in play in November that Hillary can't.  I know she can brink Arkansas into the Dem column.  I can't think of ONE state that Obama is a good bet to win where Hillary wouldn't also be a strong candidate.


by Thaddeus on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:18:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'll give you 6 for BHO to 2 for HRC (none / 0)

CO(9), IA(7), NV(5), and OR(7) are all states that, according to consistent polling, Obama will win but Clinton will not. At 28 votes, that's a larger block than FL(27) -- which neither candidate is likely to take away from McCain.

Clinton may be able to win WV(5) as well as AR(6). Obama won't win either of those states. That's a WA(11)-sized block.

But Clinton is also at serious risk of losing MI(17) and WI(10), both of which Kerry won by some of the narrowest margins of 2004, and both of which Obama is not at a risk of losing. Thats another FL-sized block.


by baudelairien on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 01:39:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'll give you 6 for BHO to 2 for HRC (none / 0)

Thanks baudelairien. I just got home and was going to respond but you did such a great job that I'll just say... "ditto". HRC can't turn even enough democrats to be the nominee, much less turn any states that she has clearly lost by large margins to BHO.
*VOTE DEMOCRAT! - HRC or BHO* Obama '08 - Full of reason / Hillary '08 - Full of treason (Gallup Poll, March 26 2008) / McCain '08 - Diaper's full of Bushit.
by VT COnQuest on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 02:03:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

MI and WI (none / 0)

Oh, no way is Obama in no risk of losing MI and WI!  These are always tightly contested.

Ohio is another state where Hillary is much stronger than Obama.  I thought it obvious that we wouldn't take current polling as definitive on a November election--to do so is remarkably unsophisticated.

I think Obama would do better in CO and OR--I don't see why he would be stronger than Hillary in NV.  I agree FL is tough for the Dems although Hillary would be stronger there.


by Thaddeus on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 09:30:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha (none / 0)

the Canadian Govt released a stmt confirming HRC camp never called them
and the 1300 word memo confirmed Austan Goolsbee did.
ginaswo
by ginaswo on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 01:11:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha (none / 0)

Yeah, thats how the nomination should be decided in the future.

Whoever wins OH, PA, and FL is the nominee.  Thats brilliant!


by sorrodos on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 10:10:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

PA, OH, FL (none / 0)

I have to agree that these are the key states.  However, just because Hillary beats Obama in all three wouldn't mean she was much better situated in these states against McCain in November.  Match=up polls would tell us much more.


by Thaddeus on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:16:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha (none / 0)

She didn't win OH by that much. 10 points isn't a blowout and doesn't mean Obama couldn't beat McCain there. As a matter of fact either probably could. Who knows about FL since no one campaigned there. We will never know who would have won if they had. And we haven't voted in PA yet. In a couple of weeks we'll have some idea as to how he will do there.
by Becky G on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 01:13:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (1.50 / 8)

After first denying it, Obama now admits he
did hear Wright make 'controversial remarks'

Now, Barack Obama says he did hear Wright's sermons that "could be controversial." If he disagreed with them, why didn't those comments move Obama to repudiate Wright then? Especially since the campaign knew
Wright could pose a problem."

Busted.

Drop out Obama.


by gotalife on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 09:25:46 PM EST

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

why is this getting tr'd?


by hctb on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 09:50:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

I didn't rate it, but maybe it was because Obama discussed in great detail and with enormous sophistication why he took the path he did.  You may not agree with his presentation, but it's not as if he hasn't talked about it in detail or that he has somehow hidden why he did what he did.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 09:56:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

while I appreciate you taking the opportunity to explain why it is trollish though you did not rate it, I do not think that beating a dead horse is trollish. Whether you agree with the poster's comment or not, it was not very delicate but he did not call out anyone but the candidate.

If attacking a candidate by calling them delusional, etc. was trollish, there would be a big problem, wouldn't you agree?


by hctb on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 10:01:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

I am pretty ambivalent and mostly negative about the very idea of troll rating. I tend to think that the best response to speech with which you disagree is a well-reasoned response. The second best response is silence.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 10:09:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

Because its trolling?

Do you know what trolling is?

Here is a hint.


by sorrodos on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 10:11:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

I really don't get what he didn't "tell the truth" about. He said he heard lots of things from Wright that were not to his liking. He gave his reasons for supporting him as a man who he respects for other reasons. You may not agree with those reasons, but you have no evidence of untruths.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 10:11:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

If Jeremiah Wright is commonplace among black ministers (Donna Brazile) and the church not particularly controversial (Obama), why did Oprah Winfrey leave?


by miriam on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 10:54:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

When Hillary backs out of her agreement regarding Florida and Michigan, isn't that dishonest?

If you want, I can find her videos from December and January?

Obama 08!


Obama 08!
by comingawakening on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 10:20:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

yeah, he sounds dishonest on this one (none / 0)


by Thaddeus on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:19:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

Except no one cares.

Most Americans saw the clips of Wright, and then saw clips of Obama's speech. Only dorks like us follow the whole who-said-what-when crap.


www.thingsyoungerthanmccain.com
by LandStander on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:56:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (2.00 / 1)

Actually, Hillary's ability to work with both sides in the Senate was often noticed.  She had some strange partnerships on various bills, but still maintained a liberal voting record.  Murtha knows her best from Capital Hill, and knows her hard work and ability to get things done.  Her work with and for veterans also didn't go unnoticed to him as well as her plans to get out of Iraq soon after sworn in.  That afterall is his main concern, the soldiers and vets who are being maimed and killed in this war.  He expressed that from the beginning.


by Scotch on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 09:26:29 PM EST

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

Of course Clinton's going to get some superdelegate endorsements.  No one in their right mind thought you wouldn't get any more.  


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 09:32:40 PM EST

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

Seriously.

Talk about moving the goalposts DRASTICALLY once more.

Is that really the only way Clinton supporters can "win"?


by sorrodos on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 10:12:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (2.00 / 0)

Seems like the national media coverage of "the speech" has been overwhelmingly positive.  Whether it's just media hype or not, I don't know.  But it moved me, after I have been doubting for a few days.  I imagine that others are feeling the same way.  BO has clearly differentiate himself as a different type of candidate, whether you agree with not.


by sbbonerad on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 09:34:14 PM EST

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

John Murtha is a conservative Democrat whose primary expertise is bringing the pork home for his district.  Hillary is the Queen of Earmarks in the Senate, so it's not surprising that those two would be on the same page.


by global yokel on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 09:36:12 PM EST

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

That is great news.  I hope supers will come out to support Hillary.  She really is the better democratic candidate for November.


by observer11 on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 09:39:27 PM EST

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

oops, I mean more supers.


by observer11 on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 09:40:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (2.00 / 2)

Murtha is an anti-war democrat that you would all love unconditionally if he had endorsed Obama.


by americanincanada on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 09:43:41 PM EST

Exactly (none / 0)

and a hero at DKos (until today!)


by Thaddeus on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:20:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

Did anyone disparage him?  I think he has a right to his opinion, and don't think any less of him.  Would Obama supporters celebrated an endorsement from him?  Sure, just as Clinton supporters are celebrating it now.  There are plenty of people I like just fine who are Super Delegates or supporters for Clinton.  For instance, I liked Spitzer just fine... obviously unfortunate what happened, but thought he was a good guy.  I also like Rendell, and while he isn't a Super Delegate and I'm not his biggest fan, I certainly don't have any problem with Elton John either.

There are others too, but I think you get my point.  Maybe some people do, but I don't have an "us" vs "them" mentality on this.


by leshrac55 on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:29:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

I was just thinking about him yesterday, this is a nice bit of news for Hillary... if the MSM can stop fawning over the latest 'big speech' to notice that would be nice


by atomic garden on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 09:46:19 PM EST

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

Aurelius he endorsed her because she is going to win Pennsylvania and his district.  Duh...?


by nzubechukwu on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 09:51:41 PM EST

Yeah, like Murtha is worried (none / 0)

about his political future.  He can afford to endorse anyone or endorse noone.  He clearly endorsed Hillary because he believes she's the best candidate.  Why impute anything else when you are unlikely to do so for the Obama superdelegates?


by Thaddeus on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:22:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

facts about the election (1.00 / 1)

If I am Hillary or Jerome, I am worried.  Honesty matters, and the voters understand the lies Hillary and Jerome have told in order to get the lying Hillary nominated.  

What the rest of us in the left blogosphere don't understand is why Hillary and Jerome are willing to give the election in the fall to the Republicans.  THE RIGHT WILL SHOW UP IN UNBELIEVEABLE NUMBERS to squash hillary because they hate Bill and Hillary.

Why do you all hate the Democratic Party?  Why are Jerome and Hillary willing to rip the party apart?


by caseynm on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 09:58:20 PM EST

Re: facts about the election (2.00 / 1)

why not just devote your time to crafting that super-special "End id Nigh" sideboard.

P.S. If Jerome (or Hillary) is capable of ripping the part apart, we are already up a creek no matter what either do.


by hctb on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 10:04:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: facts about the election (none / 0)

He didn't say that. Perhaps you should go and read the speech again.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 10:12:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: facts about the election (none / 0)

And also read what he said Friday.

Both times he said he didn't hear the particular remarks that we have all seen.  That has been absolutely consistent and no one has presented evidence otherwise.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 10:13:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: facts about the election (2.00 / 0)

Yes, he put it very cagily - "The statements that Rev. Wright made that are the cause of this controversy were not statements I personally heard him preach while I sat in the pews of Trinity or heard him utter in private conversation."

He was trying to have it both ways: to not lie outright, but also to lead people to think he never sat through controversial remarks.

When it came time to do some damage control with his speech, he figured he should admit to knowing that Wright says lots of controversial things.


by Montague on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:51:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: facts about the election (none / 0)

I've come to believe that while many on the Right hate Hillary, they have their counterparts in the Obama camp who are just as despicable.


by InigoMontoya on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 10:26:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: facts about the election (none / 0)

You can find their Clinton counterparts in the rec diaries.  My favorite was the one that claimed Michelle Obama was a "welfare queen."  Very classy.  That one really reflected well on all of the people who endorsed it.


by rfahey22 on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 10:54:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I repudiated the "welfare queen" usage (none / 0)

in that diary.  Nonetheless, huge numbers of the recc'd diaries at DKos are radically, horrifically anti-Hillary screeds of the worst form.   MyDD is mild in comparison.


by Montague on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:57:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I repudiated the "welfare queen" (none / 0)

I'll take your word for it, I guess.  I'm almost strictly a main-page person myself.


by rfahey22 on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 12:04:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: facts about the election (none / 0)

Nobody, because you continually misread the quotes that you cite.  It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.


by rfahey22 on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 10:51:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: facts about the election (none / 0)

Considering all the fancy side-stepping Obama has done to avoid telling the truth about Wright and Rezko, your comments about HRC "lying" are hilarious.  


by miriam on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 10:59:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You mean... (none / 0)

The fancy side-stepping that included 90 minutes of no-holds-barred, ask-till-the-questions-run-dry Q&A with the editors of the Chicago Tribune, then a similar session with the Sun-Times across town?

That kind of fancy side-stepping?

The kind that led the Trib, which hasn't endorsed a Democrat for president in decades, to write "Barack Obama now has spoken about his ties to Tony Rezko in uncommon detail. That's a standard for candor by which other presidential candidates facing serious inquiries now can be judged."

Mmm. OK.


Ceci n'est pas une <<snark>>
by ipsos on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:26:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You mean... (2.00 / 1)

Shhh... If you take away Rezko, the only word they'll have left in their vocabulary is "Wright".  And given Obama's recent speech and the 4 weeks until the next election, well... we know how much that's going to affect things.  They'll be left with nothing to say at all, and then where would we be?


by leshrac55 on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:33:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

And when did you stop beating your wife? (none / 0)


by Thaddeus on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:23:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: facts about the election (none / 0)

Are you even aware of how right wing your comment is?  

Why do you all hate the Democratic Party?  Why are Jerome and Hillary willing to rip the party apart?

I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Your line is straight out of Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter, circa 2003.  Why do Democrats hate America?

Well here's the answer to your question:  Jerome and Hillary (and yes, they are conspiring to destroy the party) are both French.


"It pays to be obvious, especially if you have a reputation for subtlety". Salvor Hardin
by Denny Crane on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 12:34:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)


by caseynm on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 09:58:33 PM EST

Hillary Clinton (2.00 / 1)

Barack Obama has claimed more delegates than Hillary Clinton in 15 of the last 17 primaries.

Can you feel the Hillmomentum?


by global yokel on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 10:11:26 PM EST

Hill Yeah! (none / 0)


by mac Cumhail on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 10:16:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

There's nothing to prevent superdelegates from changing their support from one candidate to the other.  If Obama starts cratering in the polls, the whole contest changes.  And there is also nothing to prevent the credentials committee from voting to seat the Florida and Michigan delegates.

You really are counting your chickens...too early.  


by miriam on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:03:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

Edwards is next.


by gotalife on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 10:12:12 PM EST

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

ROFL.

Gotalife, gotaclue?

Edwards called her the "status quo" candidate.  No way in hell he endorses her.


by sorrodos on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 10:15:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

Like we haven't heard that since he dropped out.


by rfahey22 on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 10:45:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

He was good on the War - but he is bad regarding corruption. His irrational support for divisivenss must be linked to his penchant for milking the system.

Very sad.

But the day of Lobbyists controlling us all are numbered.


by dbeall on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 10:13:51 PM EST

I can't say (none / 0)

I'm not a little bit pissed off that this was barely mentioned on dKos. Yeah I'm not boycotting the site.


by mac Cumhail on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 10:16:01 PM EST

Re: I can't say (none / 0)

Saw some diaries on it... will probably get written up tomorrow if not later tonight.  A lot of the front page writers have already signed off for the night, I believe.


by leshrac55 on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:35:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Good luck with that. (none / 0)

Kos is so popular that his boards are crowded.  That's why I pop in here; MyDD generally sucks, but at least I can get a word in.


by Timetheos on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 02:33:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

fact check to Limabuaghs Gang - Obama always acknowledged that he had witnessed some controversial statements.

So cut out the slander and look at yourself in th e mirror and reform


by dbeall on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 10:16:15 PM EST

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

It's astonishing but sadly predictable.  Murtha being vilified by Obama partisans across the blogosphere!  I've even seen some pre-vilification of John Edwards in response to the mere rumor that he might endorse Clinton.


by dwmorris on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 10:21:10 PM EST

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (2.00 / 1)

Poor Daily Obama, MSNBC, CNN and the Obama post are not taking this news too well.

Way to go Mr. Murtha.


by gotalife on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 10:43:21 PM EST

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

Congratulations, I guess, though I think it's funny that the diary mocks the "superdelegate concern trolls" when Clinton's path to the nomination is predicated on winning a sizable majority of the superdelegates to offset her pledged delegate deficit.  Aren't...you guys/gals the "superdelegate concern trolls"?  Strange.


by rfahey22 on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 10:48:42 PM EST

TPM doesn't have the story... hmm... I guess (none / 0)

not "breaking" enough for them.....


by Molee on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 10:59:55 PM EST

John Murtha is Pelosi's #1 surrogate (none / 0)

John Murtha is Nancy Pelosi's #1 confidante on the Hill.  They are extremely close.  She worked her ass off to try and get him elected Majority leader.  Murtha endorsing Hillary should tell us something.  It's definitely a sign.


by karajan72 on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:07:25 PM EST

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

Gee, this Murtha fellow must be one of those old-school, out-of-touch sellout Democrats.

Either that, or he is clearly a racist.

I mean, how can he POSSIBLY go against the Hufpo, Kos crowd?

But don't worry. Obama will be allowed to represent the pary, even if it is clear that there is absolutely no way he is electable.

Because he won all of those Red States. And without the help of the race factor.

Just rename it the Suicide Party.


by LP from MD on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:07:42 PM EST

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

If we rename the party, will you leave it?


www.thingsyoungerthanmccain.com
by LandStander on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:59:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

"But don't worry. Obama will be allowed to represent the pary, even if it is clear that there is absolutely no way he is electable."

You are almost as much a team player as Hillary Clinton, who threw Obama under the bus by saying McCain and she are superior because of their supposed superior experience.  If superior experience means voting for the Iraq war and throwing your fellow party members under the bus, then you can keep it.  It's no coincidence that the Democrats don't do well around the Clintons.  We lost Congress for the first time in 40 years under them.


We have nothing to fear but fear itself.
by Duck Soup on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 12:06:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

If it's shown over the next few weeks that Obama cannot win a general election, the Super Delegates are not going to give the nomination to Obama even if he has the most pledged delegates and won popular vote.  They will give it to Hillary to at least have a chance for victory in November.  


by karajan72 on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:14:03 PM EST

I think the only way either of them would have (2.00 / 1)

a chance is with Wes Clark as VP.
If she is the candidate, the right wing is going to make a huge effort to get Obama on the ticket.,
by earthoat on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:25:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

It's pretty sad that you're willing to concede the delegate and popular vote totals, then have to invent the argument that Obama is unelectable when there's no evidence that bears that out (though clearly you reached that conclusion already).  


by rfahey22 on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:25:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (1.33 / 3)

CREW ranks Murtha as one of the 22 most corrupt members of Congress. He's one of only four Democrats included on the 2007 list.

Just because the man is right about Iraq doesn't give him a free pass on ethical issues. That he's a right-winger on most other issues makes his adoption by the Clintonista faction of the 'progressive blogosphere' all the more hilarious.


by John Seal on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:20:42 PM EST

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

Murtha will help scare up some votes in his district, but Mr. Earmarks may not help her campaign's image overall.

Murtha is not good on the war, as someone else said.  He voted for the war resolution, unlike Pelosi or Boxer, to name two better examples.  He woke up sooner than many others, like Hillary who was in denial that the war wasn't going well all the way until the Fall of 2005.  Her state of denial that she voted for the war has evolved through the present and is still evolving.

Murtha is very corrupt.  He is a founding member of CREW's 22 most corrupt members of Congress list at www.beyonddelay.org

"Rep. John P. Murtha (D-PA) is an 18th-term member of Congress, representing Pennsylvania's 12th congressional district. Rep. Murtha chairs the Defense Appropriations Subcommittee of the House Appropriations Committee. Rep. Murtha's ethics violations stem from abuse of his position on the subcommittee to benefit the lobbying firm of a former long-term staffer and from threatening to block earmarks of other members for political purposes. Rep. Murtha was included as a member to watch in CREW's 2006 report on congressional corruption.

PMA Group

Paul Magliocchetti worked with Rep. Murtha as a senior staffer on the Appropriations Committee Subcommittee on Defense for 10 years. After leaving the committee, Mr. Magliocchetti founded the PMA Group, which has become one of the most prominent Washington, D.C. defense lobbying firms. In the 2006 campaign cycle, the PMA Group and eleven of the firm's clients ranked in the top 20 contributors to Rep. Murtha, having made campaign contributions totaling $274,649. In the 2004 and 2002 cycles, PMA and nine of the firm's clients ranked in the top twenty contributors having given $236,799 in contributions $279,074 respectively. In turn, many of PMA's clients have benefited significantly from Rep. Murtha's earmarks. In the 2006 Defense appropriations bill, PMA clients received at least 60 earmarks, totaling $95.1 million. In the 2008 election cycle, the PMA group and its clients have contributed $106,000 to Rep. Murtha's campaign committee and PAC

Concurrent Technologies Corporation

In 2007, Rep. Murtha inserted into the Energy and Water Appropriations bill a $1 million earmark to establish the Center for Instrumented Critical Infrastructure - a subsidiary of Concurrent Technologies Corporation, (CTC) a non-profit technology innovation center in Rep. Murtha's district that has received hundreds of millions of dollars in earmarks in recent years. Contrary to Rep. Murtha claims, the Department of Energy has denied supporting the request for the earmark.

CTC is a large non-profit that in 2005 received over $212 million in government grants. Since 2002, CTC's employees and employees' family members have donated over $115,000 to Rep. Murtha's political committees and leadership PAC.

By earmarking funds for companies represented by the PMA group and CTC in return for campaign contributions, Rep. Murtha may have accepted bribes or illegal gratuities, committed honest services fraud and violated House rules prohibiting members from dispensing special favors.

Threat to Deny Spending Projects

After Rep. Mike Rogers offered a motion in May of 2007 that would have stripped a $23 million earmark inserted by Rep. Murtha, Rep. Murtha approached Rep. Rogers on the House floor and stated, "I hope you don't have any earmarks in the defense appropriations bills because they are gone, and you will not get any earmarks now and forever." Rep. Rogers replied, "This is not the way we do things here," and, "is that supposed to make me afraid of you?" Rep. Murtha retorted, "That's the way I do it." Rep. Rogers declined to file a former ethics complaint and a resolution aimed at reprimanding Rep. Murtha was permanently tabled.

Earlier in May, Rep. Murtha had threatened Rep. Todd Tiahrt for voting in committee in favor of Rep. Rogers' motion to strip the earmark. Rep. Murtha approached Rep. Tiahrt on the House floor and unleashed a tirade, during which he [Rep. Murtha] threatened to withdraw his support from a defense project in Rep. Tiahrt's district. Asked about the issue later, Rep. Tiahrt claimed, "It was a little misunderstanding," and refused to discuss the matter. After his conversation with Rep. Murtha, Rep. Tiahrt apparently changed his position regarding the earmark and despite having voted for Rep. Rogers' amendment in committee, he voted against it on the House floor.

DOWNLOAD THE FULL REPORT ON REP. JOHN P. MURTHA (D-PA)"

http://www.beyonddelay.org/summaries/mur tha.php


We have nothing to fear but fear itself.
by Duck Soup on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:24:52 PM EST

There are WAY too many dKos sock puppets (2.00 / 1)

over here now.


by earthoat on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:26:25 PM EST

Re: There are WAY too many dKos sock puppets (none / 0)

What is a dKos sock puppet?


by John Seal on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:29:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: There are WAY too many dKos sock puppets (none / 0)

Even assuming that that was the case (and ignoring the insult), perhaps they just want an honest debate.  After all, there aren't many outspoken Clinton supporters over there any more.  I would think that the people here would welcome the challenge.  


by rfahey22 on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:32:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: There are WAY too many dKos sock puppets (none / 0)

Is that a joke?


"It pays to be obvious, especially if you have a reputation for subtlety". Salvor Hardin
by Denny Crane on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 12:37:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: There are WAY too many dKos sock puppets (none / 0)

Are you so threatened that you do not want to discuss politics with Obama supporters?  Don't worry, you still have basically the entire rec list to yourself.


by rfahey22 on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 12:52:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: There are WAY too many dKos sock puppets (none / 0)

Yes, that it exactly.


"It pays to be obvious, especially if you have a reputation for subtlety". Salvor Hardin
by Denny Crane on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 08:06:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: There are WAY too many dKos sock puppets (none / 0)

You're right, its clearly distorting the "I hate Obama" echo-chamber.  Those of us who actually visit both sites because we enjoy debating with people are messing everything up!


by leshrac55 on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:40:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Consensus building is NOT Obama's turf (none / 0)

It's a campaign line for him.  

Both of the candidates have worked to build consensus across the aisle.


by Montague on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:37:24 PM EST

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

Barack Obama is a liar

To all nbc
Obama speech ,,,, Not sure if you caught Not only did Obama,,, Refuses to denounce him,, but even More,, He say in his own words,,,
Barack Obama was in church when Jeremiah Wright,, was spewing Anti-American, Racist ism ,,,, Those were his own words,,, barack was there
After going on keith Oberman ,Show obama said he would denounce that if he heard that language he would leave and not tolerate it , and denounce it
After he went on MSNBC,, he went on FOX CNN ABC< all the news station saying he was never there,,, in his church when he said these things,,
But Now today during his speech,,He states flat out Say's HE was there,,, Last week Barack Obama Lied,, went on all the news stations, and Lied,,
But your not reporting that,,,, You can rest assure,,, cnn ,,, Fox , ABC,,, Msnbc,, are getting more on this ,,, they will be reporting on this, and we will see
If you chose to report, Obama Lying on tv,,, If this was Hilary clinton lying and caught lying on all the new station,,, you can be sure,, you would talk about it every hour
people will be on your station debating this,,,, people analysing , if it is hilary clinton but it was not her it was Barack Obama, ,, it bad enought He lied, about being in church
With Jeremiah  Write, when he said these anti american ,,,,,and still refuse to denounce him...all the news agency want to do is speak on how good his speech was,
Not that he lied,,, Last week on all the news agency ,, He was never there today in how own speech He say I was there,,,,should play  all Obama videos from last week
stating he was not there,,, or heard any of the anti-american Jeremiah Write, said in his churc then play his speech today saying he was there and he did hear him in church and refuse to denounce Jeremiah Wright,,,


by paulanthony60 on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:44:01 PM EST

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

I assume this sock puppet thing is an insult, but for the record, I don't visit that website and never have.

At the start of the primary season I was in the Kucinich or Gravel camp. I was anti-Obama because he wasn't left enough for me, so you can imagine how I feel about Clinton. (I was also secretly hoping Russ Feingold would get in the race.) However, I've come to appreciate Barack. Though I think it was unfortunate that he  disavowed Jeremiah Wright, who simply stated the ugly truth about some issues best left undiscussed in polite company, his speech today threaded the needle very effectively and was brilliantly written.

Even Clintonistas must admit that after eight years of President Blockhead, it is refreshing to hear a politician tackling complex issues without resorting to the black/white, good/bad, or patriot/traitor paradigms.


by John Seal on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:44:27 PM EST

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

Over at Kos the smearing of Jack Murtha goes unabated. Who is being divisive now?


by tarheel74 on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:46:11 PM EST

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

For the record, I think that Murtha has been a fairly constant punching bag for a while now.  I recall that the front page diaries repeatedly skewered him for being a roadblock to ethics reform, well before the primary season ever started.  There was a sense that he was a member of the leadership that had failed to live up to its promises after the last election (just like Reid, Pelosi, Hoyer, etc.).


by rfahey22 on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:59:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

www.beyonddelay.org has Murtha on its list of the most corrupt members of Congress.  CREW does not attack Democrats.  Most of the people on that list are Republicans.  

Please don't be an apologist for Murtha and the corrupt, old-style politics he stands for.


We have nothing to fear but fear itself.
by Duck Soup on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 12:04:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

I think you got the wrong guy!


by rfahey22 on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 12:07:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

Barack Obama belongs to the same club. Rezko, Exelon, James Crown are all part of it. And he did this in the first 4 years in senate. Remember that.


by tarheel74 on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 12:34:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

What do you expect from the Obamaphiles?


by usedmeat on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 12:10:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

The voters don't like the idea of the superdelegates throwing the election to HRC:

By 55%-37%, Democrats and independents who "lean" Democratic say an outcome in which Clinton lost among pledged delegates but prevailed with the help of super delegates would be "flawed" and unfair."

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/el ection2008/2008-03-17-poll_N.htm


by global yokel on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:51:49 PM EST

Re: Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

There you go citing facts again.


by rfahey22 on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:56:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

And here I go with more facts:

Sixty-three percent of Democrats said the two states should hold new primaries, with 19 percent saying delegates from Florida and Michigan should be seated at the national convention based on the results of the January primaries, and 15 percent saying no delegates should be seated at all.

And this:

Since the party is not going to scrap the superdelegates, the big question is how they should base their vote for the nomination.

Democrats appear split on this question -- 49 percent say that superdelegates should base their votes on their view of who would be the best candidate; 46 percent say that superdelegates should base their votes on the results of the primaries and caucuses.


"It pays to be obvious, especially if you have a reputation for subtlety". Salvor Hardin
by Denny Crane on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 12:45:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

Considering that one poll included Democrats and independents, and the other was Democrats-only, I fail to see the inconsistency (and I have no idea what your point is about MI and FL, especially since there was an about-even split as to whether they should even be seated at all).  The poll you cited would seem to indicate that 46% of Democrats would consider coup-by-superdelegate as illegitimate, and possibly some fraction of the 49% as well (since their "best candidate" might be the one that receives the fewest superdelegates).


by rfahey22 on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 01:01:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

Sssshhhhhhhhhh.  We all know that Hillary's only chance is to get the elite Superdelegates to overturn the will of the people in their pledged delegates.  Leave the White Elephant alone.

Seriously, I don't understand how Hillary thinks this can be good for herself, much more the Party.


We have nothing to fear but fear itself.
by Duck Soup on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 12:02:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Is this really new? (none / 0)

I thought the Johnstown press mentioned Murtha was leaning toward Hillary three months ago? I know the official announcement is today and so that's news. But I don't know that Murtha was ever truly undecided.

And the WV superdelegate didn't "announce" today. A Charleston Gazette happened to mention DNC Pat Moroney's endorsement of Clinton in passing. Who knows when Moroney actually endorsed her?


by elrod on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 12:39:43 AM EST

Re: Is this really new? (none / 0)

He announced today, per Mark Halperin at The Page. Anything else?


"It pays to be obvious, especially if you have a reputation for subtlety". Salvor Hardin
by Denny Crane on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 12:42:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Is this really new? (none / 0)

I know he announced today. But I think he tipped his hat toward her three months ago. A lot of endorsements work that way - both candidates.

Look, I'm happy for Hillary that she got Murtha's endorsement. I have some beefs with him - mostly over corruption - but I'll never forget how much he took one for the team in fighting against the war. He was smeared as a traitor by Mean Jean Schmidt and all the other cardboard patriots out there. I completely respect his decision to support Hillary Clinton and I admit I would love to have had him support Obama.

I was just making the point that this wasn't some earth-shattering movement in Hillary's direction. That he came out fully now is great for her, but it doesn't really signify any major movement of support in the state.


by elrod on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 02:03:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

A vote for Hillary is a vote for Mcain
She has already endorsed him.
by dbeall on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 12:39:49 AM EST

Re: John Murtha Endorses Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

Al Giordano over at 'The Field' reminds us that Murtha isn't exactly the kind of superdelegate that Hillary can be proud of:

http://ruralvotes.com/thefield/

"The rub among his superdelegate colleagues is ABSCAM: The 1980 sting operation in which Murtha and other members of Congress were videotaped with undercover FBI agents that posed as Saudi Arabian citizens seeking US citizenship, offering massive cash bribes to members of Congress. Murtha was named as an "unindicted co-conspirator" in the ABSCAM case but escaped prosecution, in part, to be fair, because he hadn't taken a bribe (he said "maybe I'll be interested" later). But the other, probably more determinative relief to him was that to lessen his own burden before the law, Murtha instead testified against two other Democratic House members. As house snitch of The House he sealed his fate with his colleagues."


by global yokel on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 01:35:17 AM EST


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