Barack Obama Speech Thread

by Todd Beeton, Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 10:31:59 AM EST

I have to head over to Take Back so I'll probably miss the speech but it looks like Senator Obama should be taking the stage any minute. Use this thread to follow the speech.

Update [2008-3-18 11:8:7 by Jerome Armstrong]:I figured. What Obama wants to do is pivot it back to Clinton vs Obama, and get the Republican attack on him through Wright off the table, so he's equated Wright and Ferraro multiple times in the speech. We'll see if the Clinton surrogates fall for it or rise above and ignore it.

On one end of the spectrum, we’ve heard the implication that my candidacy is somehow an exercise in affirmative action; that it’s based solely on the desire of wide-eyed liberals to purchase racial reconciliation on the cheap. On the other end, we’ve heard my former pastor, Reverend Jeremiah Wright, use incendiary language to express views that have the potential not only to widen the racial divide, but views that denigrate both the greatness and the goodness of our nation; that rightly offend white and black alike.

...We can dismiss Reverend Wright as a crank or a demagogue, just as some have dismissed Geraldine Ferraro, in the aftermath of her recent statements, as harboring some deep-seated racial bias.

This is pretty ugly and unfair though of Obama, to equate statements by Ferraro with Wright. Obama goes on and on about how great a person Wright is, without a single kind word about Ferraro, just rubbing it in further. I believe the campaign has reached a new low.

Otherwise, great speech.




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Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (2.00 / 1)

I'm sure it will be a good speech.  But no one speech is going to put away spending 20 years in such a radical church.  


by karajan72 on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 10:39:22 AM EST

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (none / 0)

Curiously, Drudge has the full text.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 10:58:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (none / 0)

Not surprising.  HuffPo has it too (among other places).  

If Drudge has it, maybe the HRC camp leaked it there.  They're pals after all.


I'm as strong as a bull moose, and you can use me to the limit. - Teddy Roosevelt
by fogiv on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:02:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (none / 0)

Projecting what you'd like to believe doesn't make it so.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:20:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (none / 0)

Ahem.  Sorry, but it's widely know that the HRC camp has utilized Drudge.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/22/us/pol itics/22drudge.html


I'm as strong as a bull moose, and you can use me to the limit. - Teddy Roosevelt
by fogiv on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 12:25:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (none / 0)

Drudge broke the rule...?  The H3LL you say....!


McCain/Palin... even scarier than Bush/Cheney... and that's saying something!
by JenKinFLA on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:23:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

What Ferraro said is much worse (none / 0)

than anything Wright said.


by cypruspoint on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 12:13:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

beter than being catholic! nt/ (none / 0)


by ksquire on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 09:53:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

beter than being catholic! nt (none / 0)


by ksquire on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 09:55:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (none / 0)

You'd think he were a rock or movie star.
by zenful6219 on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 10:43:04 AM EST

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (none / 0)

Yes, because rock stars and movie stars always give 30 minute long speeches..?


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:04:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (none / 0)

Ever listen to Kevin Cronin of REO Speedwagon? LOL


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:12:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

or a talented leader. what's wrong with that? (none / 0)

better than being uninspiring or appealing to the lowest common denominator.

democrats used to praise this kind of thing.


by ksquire on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 10:02:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (none / 0)

Link to the speech.  It's pretty amazing.


Beat McCain!
by thezzyzx on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 10:44:24 AM EST

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (2.00 / 2)

I read the text, and wasn't impressed.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 10:59:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (none / 0)

What could have impressed you?


Beat McCain!
by thezzyzx on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:00:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (none / 0)

"Some will see this as an attempt to justify or excuse comments that are simply inexcusable...."

Even he knew was this speech was designed to do.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:10:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (none / 0)

I think he was acknowledging that, regardless of what he says, some will not be satisfied with it...


McCain/Palin... even scarier than Bush/Cheney... and that's saying something!
by JenKinFLA on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:16:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (2.00 / 2)

In the real world, sometimes outrageous actions are simply inexcusable.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:21:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (none / 0)

what was the action...?  


McCain/Palin... even scarier than Bush/Cheney... and that's saying something!
by JenKinFLA on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:23:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Omission is sometimes as bad as... (none / 0)

comission.  In this case, Obama's failure to distance himself from the racist hate preached to him by his friend, pastor and counselor, Rev. Wright over a 20 year period.

Where was his judgment?  Where was his desire to unite all those years?


by Shazone on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:27:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Omission is sometimes as bad as... (none / 0)

You obviously didn't listen to, nor read the speech.

He addressed very specifically why he stayed in the church and kept his relationship with Wright.

Very specifically and very eloquently and very logically.

Great speech.


by digdug on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:37:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

So you're saying that he stayed.... (2.00 / 0)

in his church so he could convince others in the same church that Rev. Wright was wrong?

Was that how he lived his life as a uniter?


by Shazone on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 12:18:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Omission is sometimes as bad as... (none / 0)

Has McCain,Bush etc., distanced themselves from segregationists? Hate mongers? No.  Yet we aren't have this conversation about anybody else.  Why is that?


by Chavez100 on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:38:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

IOIYAR (2.00 / 0)

I have a couple of guesses as to why that is:

1) The media does not want to have a conversation about hate mongers in the Republican Party.

2) Being a hate monger is not considered a fatal flaw in a Republican politician.

It is exactly the same dynamic that says John Edwards is a horrible hypocrite if he has a big home and cares about poor people, but John McCain can have a big home and not care about poor people. The "liberal biased" media hath decreed it.


Your attempt to change the subject to "the issues" is irrelevant.
by itsthemedia on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 12:21:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Omission is sometimes as bad as... (none / 0)

okay, here is an admission...  when I was 20, my grandfather called a 50-ish year old African American man "boy"... to his face...

I did not say a word about it to my grandfather... nor did I disassociate myself with my grandfather,


McCain/Palin... even scarier than Bush/Cheney... and that's saying something!
by JenKinFLA on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:40:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

guilt-by-association!!! (none / 0)

you are racist!!!


-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:50:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Omission is sometimes as bad as... (2.00 / 0)

OK, but by the time you were 47, would you have let it slide? Or would you at least have said "Grampa! I know you were raised that way, but it is not OK to say that kind of thing anymore!" Or would you wait until someone posted your Grampa's slur on Youtube before saying anything?


Your attempt to change the subject to "the issues" is irrelevant.
by itsthemedia on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 12:28:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

That's what I did with my sweet little Mama (2.00 / 0)

She kept using the n-word and I'd gently chide her and she'd explain that she didn't mean anything bad by it.

One day I explained that when anyone says, "Please don't use that term talking about me.  It hurts.  I find it offensive," and you continue to do so, then you're saying you don't care what the person says they want.  Is that what you mean?  you don't care what other's say they don't want and you don't care that it hurts their feelings?  

She stopped using the term - in her 70s, she was able to change.  


by Southern Mouth on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 01:03:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (none / 0)

Who's actions were they?


Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:28:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (none / 0)

"Some will see this as an attempt to justify or excuse comments that are simply inexcusable. I can assure you it is not."

"The profound mistake of Reverend Wright's sermons is not that he spoke about racism in our society. It's that he spoke as if our society was static; as if no progress has been made; as if this country - a country that has made it possible for one of his own members to run for the highest office in the land and build a coalition of white and black; Latino and Asian, rich and poor, young and old -- is still irrevocably bound to a tragic past. But what we know -- what we have seen - is that America can change. That is true genius of this nation. What we have already achieved gives us hope - the audacity to hope - for what we can and must achieve tomorrow."


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:16:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (2.00 / 1)

That was the part that caused me to experience major cognitive dissonance.

"The Audacity of Hope," Obama's book, was based on a sermon by Pastor Wright. It was dedicated to Pastor Wright.

Now he is saying that Wright doesn't have the audacity to hope for change?

[brain explodes]


The world cannot survive four more years of Bush.
by madamab on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:27:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (none / 0)

He is saying Wright doesn't think that it has changed, not that he doesn't think it can change.  And Obama has sad that he disagrees.

I have no problem with a discussion about this speech, but let's make sure it's about this speech, not your distortion of the words in it.


Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:31:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (2.00 / 0)

I quote again:

It's that he spoke as if our society was static; as if no progress has been made; as if this country - a country that has made it possible for one of his own members to run for the highest office in the land and build a coalition of white and black; Latino and Asian, rich and poor, young and old -- is still irrevocably bound to a tragic past. But what we know -- what we have seen - is that America can change.

This is what he said:

The country is irrevocably bound to a tragic past, according to Wright. That is a mistake, because America can change.

The Audacity of Hope - which Obama then references in the next sentence - is supposedly inspired by a sermon from Wright.

Which Wright is right?


The world cannot survive four more years of Bush.
by madamab on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 12:05:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (none / 0)

read your quote.  He's saying it ISN'T changing; not that it CAN'T change.  There is a difference.

Your assertion on some sort of hypocrisy or inconsistency in message is wrong.


Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 12:28:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (none / 0)

and what's more, those are Wright's words not Obama's.


Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 12:32:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (none / 0)

Probably if you just read Shakespeare you wouldn't be impressed either. A speech is delivered-not read.


by CB Todd on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:01:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (1.50 / 2)

Ah... but according to Mr. Obama, "words matter."


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:07:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (2.00 / 0)

Well... given the aneurysm the blogosphere is having over Rev. Wright's words, I would say that point is being made...


McCain/Palin... even scarier than Bush/Cheney... and that's saying something!
by JenKinFLA on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:10:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (1.50 / 2)

Nothing can justify Rev. Wright's incendiary and hate-filled words.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:14:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (2.00 / 1)

Obama doesn't justify them but he does explain why Wright holds his views - and why these are limited and incorrect.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:17:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (1.50 / 2)

The whole purpose of his speech to a attempt (and a lame one at that) to justify his actions.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:44:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (2.00 / 1)

They do matter.  Even HRC acknowledged it in her speech yesterday.  

It's pretty clear that Obama's words don't matter to you, simply because you're unwilling to listen.  I believe HRC supporters are generally better than that.  

For now, the only words that DO NOT matter are the bitter little potshots you type into your keyboard.


I'm as strong as a bull moose, and you can use me to the limit. - Teddy Roosevelt
by fogiv on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:13:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (none / 0)

We've listened. But it takes more than mere "words."


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:16:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (none / 0)

What does it take for you?  Are you honestly open to being persuaded?  If you are not, then perhaps you should admit that.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:18:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (2.00 / 1)

I read "The Audacity of Hope" when Mr. Obama first became a candidate. He is a fine politician. He is not, in my judgment and the judgment of millions of others, ready to be President of the United States.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:23:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (none / 0)

Ah, but in my judgment, and in the judgment of millions of others he is ready...

In fact, it appears, at present, that more people think he is than think he isn't...


ENOUGH!
by JDF on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:34:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (none / 0)

Actually, just the opposite is true.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:51:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (none / 0)

How do you figure?

Considering:

*States won
*Pledged Delagate lead
*Popular Vote Lead
*Endorsements
*Superdelegate (he's gained 47 since 2/5; she's lost 7)


I'm as strong as a bull moose, and you can use me to the limit. - Teddy Roosevelt
by fogiv on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:58:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (none / 0)

He's been beaten in all the largest states but his own, he's stalling out a revote of Michigan and Florida, and will be defeated in Pennsylvania, West Virginia, Kentucky, among other states.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 02:39:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (none / 0)

Oh, right.  The "large" state thing.  Tell me, what exactly is the cutoff between  a large and small state?

Nevermind.  I already know your answer:  Any state that HRC wins is a BIG state.  All others are "small" and don't matter.  States like SC, MO, VA, WI, MN, and TX (where he won more delegates).

Oh, and before you go into the goofy "electability" argument, explain how ANY dem candidate will lose CA, NY, NJ, and MA.


I'm as strong as a bull moose, and you can use me to the limit. - Teddy Roosevelt
by fogiv on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 03:50:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (none / 0)

Oh, and one more thing:

Obama may well lose PA, WV, and KY but he'll add to his delegate lead.  I notice you're not mentioning OR, IN, and NC.  Any predictions for those states?

MI and FL?  Please, where was HRC's outrage over the poor disenfranchised voters when her campaign thought it would all be over by Super Tuesday?


I'm as strong as a bull moose, and you can use me to the limit. - Teddy Roosevelt
by fogiv on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 04:00:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (none / 0)

Sure you have.  Which is why you're going with HRC, right?  On account of her "35 years of experience"?

My father was a high school teacher for 33 years and my mother has been a registered nurse for about 30.  My girlfiend has worked for an electrical contractor for the last 4 years.

By extension, I have 67 years experience providing health care education to electricians.


I'm as strong as a bull moose, and you can use me to the limit. - Teddy Roosevelt
by fogiv on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:32:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (2.00 / 1)

Uh no - because you didn't actually DO something related to those professions, whereas HRC actually, you know, DID things like work for children's issues and healthcare issues, and work with leaders of foreign countries, and oh yeah, ADVISED THE PRESIDENT.


by cmugirl90 on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:38:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (none / 0)

Uh no - because you didn't actually DO something related to those professions, whereas HRC actually, you know, DID things like work for children's issues and healthcare issues, and work with leaders of foreign countries, and oh yeah, ADVISED THE PRESIDENT.


by cmugirl90 on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:38:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (none / 0)

Oh right, she helped the refugees in Macednoia.  Which cabinet posts will Sinbad and Sheryl Crow hold in her administration?

Oh wait, peace in Ireland.  Ooops, turns out that's ALSO a MAJOR exaggeration.

Tell me, how long did HRC work for the Children's Defense before filling out her W-4 for WalMart?

Remind me:  how did all that healthcare work she did as first lady turn out?

Look, my point is that HRC has greatly exxagerated her "experience".  It's a campaign, all politicians do it to some extent.  I see it when Obama does it, and am thus baffled when a great many HRC supporters fail to see it when she does it.


I'm as strong as a bull moose, and you can use me to the limit. - Teddy Roosevelt
by fogiv on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:55:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (2.00 / 1)

67 years?  there is no logic to that.  did you go try to at least hand out the books to children when you dad taught?  did you help administrate the medicine when your mother distribute them? If you were actively involved in their work, I think you should take some credit. But i think you did not, you were probably not even walking at the beginning of your parents' career.  Your point is completely flawed. Hillary has actively worked in everything she listed. She registered voters, worked for children's defense fund, worked in relation to Nixon's impeachment, set up legal aid clinic for the poor...  She didn't list her experience living with her parents, volunteering in high school and college. I believe she would have been great (maybe greater) even if she didn't marry Bill.  It is completely unfair when people assume that she just takes credits from her husband.


by observer11 on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 12:01:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (none / 0)

Actually, my little experience rant was hyperbolic to make a point.  Not intended to be "logical" in a "cogency" sense.

That being said, I lived with my parents for eighteen years.  I have also worked as both a teacher's aid and an EMT.  Once, I even rewired the stereo in my car.

Do these experiences qualify me to serve as an electrician, pysician, or professional educator?

Again, for those in the cheap seats, my point is that we should be smart enough to recognize exaggeration when we see it, whether it's from Clinton, Obama, or me.


I'm as strong as a bull moose, and you can use me to the limit. - Teddy Roosevelt
by fogiv on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 12:20:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (2.00 / 0)

You do realize that she has chosen public service/law as her career and she counted her experience within the field after she graduated from law school and had already decided on her career.  If you always fixed all the cars in your family since you were 15 and indeed became a certified mechanic (note she was certified first), I 'd say your car-fixing experience counts.  I would be very happy to hire you to take care of your car because of your long time experience; but if you do it as an on and off hobby, I will not be so sure.

I don't understand how Obama's experience as a community organizer counts while her experience would be considered exaggerated.  I think their experiences are both valid, but hers is longer and more extensive.


by observer11 on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 01:54:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (none / 0)

Sigh.  My point remains that exaggerion ought to be noticed for what it is --- regardless where it comes from.

I respect you opinion that her experience is valid, longer, and/or more extensive.  I disagree, but am glad to know you don't just swallow talking points whole.  :)


I'm as strong as a bull moose, and you can use me to the limit. - Teddy Roosevelt
by fogiv on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 02:01:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (none / 0)

:)

I don't listen to talking points - I don't even have a TV. I decided to support Hillary after a long process of comparison and analysis. I said it before; I was a big supporter for Obama since 2004 his speech at the DNC, but I have changed my mind since the end of last year.  I used to have the same dismissive attitude towards Hillary , but the more I know about her the more admire her.  She is currently my favorite person in politics, period.


by observer11 on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 02:09:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (none / 0)

Agree to disagree then, my fellow Dem.

I'm not dismissive of Hillary, I just like Obama better overall.


I'm as strong as a bull moose, and you can use me to the limit. - Teddy Roosevelt
by fogiv on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 02:23:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (none / 0)

to be fair, shakespeare was a mccain man.  now the woman who actually wrote the plays, whom shakespeare stole them from, seemed like a hillary supporter.


"Katie, i'd like to use one of my lifelines, i'd like to phone a friend." "governor Palin"
by Doug Tuttle on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:11:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (none / 0)

I only read the speech. And was impressed as all hell. Very honest.


by accidentalwonk on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 12:12:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This speech will go down in history (none / 0)

I think anyone who was not impressed by that speech is either profoundly ignorant or deeply cynical.

I have been a student of politics and rhetoric my entire life.  I believe that Obama's speech was one of the most profound and important speeches of our lifetime.  He is a powerful moral teacher.  He validated the the concerns and resentments of all Americans around this most sensitive of subjects, and called us to be better.  He explained himself and the logic of his campaign.  

Anyone who was "not impressed" is blinded by their own resentments or their own political agenda. Anyone who has argued that Obama is not substantive just got an enormous sweeping dose of substance.

Mark my words, this speech will go down in history as a turning point in this race and a turning point in the history of race relations in this country.


by upper left on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 12:03:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This speech will go down in history (2.00 / 0)

> I think anyone who was not impressed by that speech is either profoundly ignorant or deeply cynical.

You are trying to browbeat and insult people into accepting Obama's message of inclusiveness? That approach does not strike you as counterproductive?


Your attempt to change the subject to "the issues" is irrelevant.
by itsthemedia on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 12:39:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This speech will go down in history (none / 0)

No, I was commenting about the motives that shape people's perceptions.  

I honestly think that anyone who came to this speech with an open heart and an honest mind could not help but be moved.  This was an insightful explanation of the racial divide and a powerful moral call to do better.

Are you saying that you were not impressed?  I have heard many question Obama's "substance."  That was a sweeping and substantive statement.  If you know of a better description of the racial divide in this country, please point it out to me.  If you know of a more powerful call to overcome these divisions since MLK assassination, I want to know where.  


by upper left on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 01:14:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (none / 0)

is it being streamed anywhere?


vote blue in 2008
by sepulvedaj3 on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 10:45:16 AM EST

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (none / 0)

Yes, on cnn.com


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 10:46:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (none / 0)

link?


vote blue in 2008
by sepulvedaj3 on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 10:48:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (none / 0)

http://www.cnn.com/video/live/live.html? stream=stream1


by rfahey22 on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:09:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (2.00 / 2)

That's just it. It's not a radical church. And saying it  is doesn't make it so. There is still a HUGE blow back yet to come on this matter. Today,'s speech is just the first step. The MSM is not  leading on this matter- they are merely following.

This is the beginning of the end of generational view of racial politics in this country.

Barack Obama will be seen as visionary leader when this is done.


by CB Todd on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 10:46:15 AM EST

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (2.00 / 1)

I'm still trying to figure out (watching MSNBC right now) how Pat Buchanan is a consultant on anything that requires a modicum of sensitivity...  I remember his hate-filled speech in 1992....


McCain/Palin... even scarier than Bush/Cheney... and that's saying something!
by JenKinFLA on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 10:54:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (none / 0)

What did Buchanan say in that hate filled speech?
Was he a prez candidate then?
Hillary/Obama08
by annefrank on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:03:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (2.00 / 2)

it was the 1992 convention...  he had lost the nomination to GHW Bush...

Here's a link to it...  if you dare...

http://www.buchanan.org/pa-92-0817-rnc.h tml

I remember watching it at the time and thinking, wow, this guy hates Democrats more than he loves America...  It was considered a tipping point in the Presidential election...


McCain/Palin... even scarier than Bush/Cheney... and that's saying something!
by JenKinFLA on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:06:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (2.00 / 1)

You seriously don't remember him basically equating Hillary to the devil in '92?


Tony Romo for Secretary of Awesome
by kasjogren on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:15:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (none / 0)

She may not.  I'm at seminary now with most of my classmates having been born as late as 1995.

The 1992 convention was almost 26 years ago.  

what I well remember is virtually unknown...

Those things that happened just before I was born - say Dr. King and Bobby Kennedy being killed 40 years ago - is ancient history to them.

and yet issues of 40, 60, 100 and more years ago are still festering.

which is kind of what this conversation Obama is trying to steer us to is about...


by its simple IF you ignore the complexity on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:26:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (none / 0)

16. Not 26.

Don't DO that to me. Shivver.


Fight the Smears!
by Lettuce on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:36:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (none / 0)

1992 was 16 years ago, not 26.

Your fellow seminarians are 13 years old?

Not saying you wouldn't remember the remarks; I was born in 1975 and I don't remember his '92 speech.  Just wanted to clarify the timetables.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:41:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (none / 0)

Sometimes it not because of "youth" that people don't remember events - it's age.
LOL

And I'm in that category.


Hillary/Obama08
by annefrank on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:53:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (2.00 / 1)

Regardless of whether or not you support Obama, and whether or not you think he was right or wrong to attend the church, it's a great speech for this country.  Hopefully it will live on Youtube in a way that it won't on the talking heads shows...


by thewrath on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 10:47:37 AM EST

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (1.66 / 3)

It's a mediocre speech at best, and a screed at worst.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:00:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (none / 0)

A screed?  Why do you say that?  I hear no anger, no lashing out at others.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:03:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (1.00 / 1)

I hear a lot of pretty lame excuses for outrageous and inexcusable behavior.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:24:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (none / 0)

True.  Pretty much every time Mark Penn and Howard Wolfson speak.


I'm as strong as a bull moose, and you can use me to the limit. - Teddy Roosevelt
by fogiv on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:34:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (none / 0)

Care to explain why?

I think you're close-minded at best, and idiotic at worst.


I'm as strong as a bull moose, and you can use me to the limit. - Teddy Roosevelt
by fogiv on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:05:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (none / 0)

Mediocre, sure, that's your right.  Where's the screed?  Give us some examples so I can figure out where you stand!


by thewrath on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:07:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (none / 0)

he stands firmly in a world that Obama can do NO right and Hillary can do NO wrong.


ENOUGH!
by JDF on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:36:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (2.00 / 1)

I'm going to guess that if Abraham Lincoln was running against Hillary Clinton you would have said the same thing about the Gettysburg Address....


McCain/Palin... even scarier than Bush/Cheney... and that's saying something!
by JenKinFLA on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:12:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (none / 0)

LOL!

That was your speech Abe? Itwas mediocre! It was screedy! It was ... short ... I loved it!


Your attempt to change the subject to "the issues" is irrelevant.
by itsthemedia on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 12:12:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

mediocre political speech? (none / 0)

I guess you have been living in an entirely different universe for the past 40 years.


d
by d on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:40:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

No it wasn't great. (2.00 / 0)

I thought it started off very strong but then ended very partisan.  I thought he began to distance himself from Wright but then he became an apologist for him.  Then Obama put the blame on greedy corporations, lobbyists, NAFTA, and outsourcing.  For all the difficulties caused by those things, they are not the reason for Jeremiah Wright's claim that the U.S. government created AIDS to kill black people. At that point Obama simply pandered to the base making a scapegoat out of lobbyists and corporations even though it has nothing to do with it.  Cheap pandering is what it was.


by dMarx on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 01:01:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (none / 0)

here we go.


"Katie, i'd like to use one of my lifelines, i'd like to phone a friend." "governor Palin"
by Doug Tuttle on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 10:54:26 AM EST

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (none / 0)

Good camera cut there CNN.  Why they switched cameras to an empty podium is beyond me.


Beat McCain!
by thezzyzx on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 10:56:54 AM EST

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (2.00 / 3)

I just read the text of the speech over on Huffington Post and I think it's an excellent one.  After reading it, I feel pretty much the same way that I felt before the Wright controversy broke--that Obama would be a great choice for vice-president and, with a few more years of experience behind him, an outstanding president.


by markjay on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:03:54 AM EST

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (2.00 / 1)

OK thank you.  I'm glad that some Hillary supporters can see why he has an appeal to us.  And, in the spirit of sharing, I don't think everyone on Hillary's campaign is evil incarnate.  Wolfson did an admirable job defending Kos (while acknowledging that Hillary always got a lot of flack there) on O'Reilly.


by thewrath on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:06:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (none / 0)

He did...?  I missed that....

I don't mind Wolfson so much...  Penn, on the other hand, makes me want to rip my own ears off....


McCain/Palin... even scarier than Bush/Cheney... and that's saying something!
by JenKinFLA on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:15:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (none / 0)

Penn stinks, yes.  And Wolfson isn't my favourite guy.... but here's the link to him on O'Reilly.  This is something all of us need to watch as we gird ourselves against McCain.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5hT1fZyb Y4


by thewrath on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:19:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (none / 0)

thanks!


McCain/Palin... even scarier than Bush/Cheney... and that's saying something!
by JenKinFLA on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:25:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (1.00 / 1)

rambling obtuse beginning...not hearing anything YET that will turn this major, very possibly FATAL stumble around ....

but still listening


http://www.buzzzed.com
by buzzzed on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:04:06 AM EST

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (none / 0)

Personally I loved the way he started it by placing what occurs now in the context of the American story, our shared American history.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:06:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (2.00 / 1)

Personally, I thought the vision was myopic. All we hear about is the struggle of slavery.... and not a peep about the oppression of women and denying their right to vote.

Intentional? Better believe it.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:35:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (none / 0)

The struggle of women, while very relevant, is not relevant TO THIS SPEECH. So yes it was intentional. He intentionally stayed on topic.


ENOUGH!
by JDF on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:38:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (2.00 / 1)

Interesting tactic to talk about groups who have been oppressed, and ignore half the US population.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:46:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (none / 0)

It is relevant if he's going to bring up Ferraro's comments.


by gooderservice on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 12:06:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (none / 0)

He defended her and brought them up in terms of racial division in this country. He brought them up of another example of WHY we need to discuss this problem.


ENOUGH!
by JDF on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 04:30:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (none / 0)

Um... did you hear the speech itself? Plenty about the shared experience, and having a black leader talking calmly and understandingly of lower-middle class race concerns is historic.

Can you even a little-bit see past your support for Hillary at what an intriguing historical moment this is? And how unprecidented?


Fight the Smears!
by Lettuce on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:38:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (none / 0)

I would say that equating the struggles of minorities in this country with the struggles of women (have to assume white women, as women of color have both racism and sexism to contend with), but to equate these two things so broadly is itself myopic.

In fact I have said that.  

Or is hitting a glass ceiling or being denied a promotion or equal pay for equal work somehow worse than being lynched?

The existence of sexism in this country in 2007 is a discussion worth having, but framing it against racism in such a a way strips the argument of its validity.


McCain/Palin... even scarier than Bush/Cheney... and that's saying something!
by JenKinFLA on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:47:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (none / 0)

And HE DID Talk about the struggles of women among the struggles all Americans face. And women make up 1/2 the Blacks, Hispanics, immigrants, and white he talked about as well.

It's getting silly now, guys.


Fight the Smears!
by Lettuce on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:49:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

5 months ago (none / 0)

the MSM would have been all over how great this speach is... today, i dont know if thats the case. The MSM wants this story to continue because of ratings.

Live by the media, die by the media.


vote blue in 2008
by sepulvedaj3 on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:05:43 AM EST

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (none / 0)

El Finito, Obama


by karajan72 on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:05:49 AM EST

there, there (none / 0)


-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:08:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

its odd (2.00 / 2)

CNN's headline is "Obama: Constitution stained by 'sin of Slavery'"

i dont think thats the headline he wanted


vote blue in 2008
by sepulvedaj3 on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:11:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: its odd (none / 0)

"Obama urges Americans to reject "racial stalemate.""

This is what it says now.


Tony Romo for Secretary of Awesome
by kasjogren on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:18:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: its odd (none / 0)

I think the MSM already has a narrative, so they will pull anything out of the speech that fits it..


McCain/Palin... even scarier than Bush/Cheney... and that's saying something!
by JenKinFLA on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:21:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread (none / 0)

I missed the first part.  Did he say he has or has not been there for the more inflammatory statements?


by JustJennifer on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:06:45 AM EST

He has (2.00 / 0)

He admitted it after denying for a week.  It's going to be bad, this flip-flop.


by diplomatic on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:07:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He has (none / 0)

That was my biggest thing.. don't say you didn't know if you did.  Just buck up and deal with it.  Same with the Rezko stuff.  I would rather that he would just be honest about his shortcomings and let everyone accept him as a human being.


by JustJennifer on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:09:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He has (none / 0)

He has said this before. If you didn't hear it, you weren't listening.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:09:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He has (none / 0)

No, he said he was not present.  Maybe he was parsing and meant he wasn't there for the comments we have seen so far.  Ok, so that is kind of skirting the issue.  But whatever.  I don't hold Rev. Wright against Obama.  I would have actually prefered that he told everyone to stay out of his religious life.  


by JustJennifer on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:12:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He has (none / 0)

He has consistently said that he was there for controversial statements, but he has never said he was there for the particular statements we've seen on the clips.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:19:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He has (none / 0)

No he didn't.  He said he knew he Wright had views he disagreed with... but that the the inflammatory remarks were especially uncalled for.


by thewrath on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:11:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Read... This is from his speech: (none / 0)

"Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes. Did I strongly disagree with many of his political views? Absolutely - just as I'm sure many of you have heard remarks from your pastors, priests, or rabbis with which you strongly disagreed. "

If that doesn't mean he was there for you, ok but the majority of America is not buying it.  Hardly no one believes that he sat there for 20 years and didn't hear some nasty stuff very similar to what was on those tapes.


by diplomatic on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:26:20 AM EST
[