A Fair Penalty for MI & FL

I have been thinking about what would be the fair solution to the disaster that is the Florida/Michigan situation.  It is definitely not an easy thing to solve.  There are many ideas being thrown out:

(1) Just seat the delegations in accordance with the votes that already happened. (2) Split the delegations 50/50 so that the renegade states are represented at the Convention, but they will not have an effect on the outcome. (3) Do nothing.  The states broke the rules, and they must be penalized for it to set a precedent. (4) Let these two big states revote so that the voters can have their say.

(If you already know the merits and drawbacks of these ideas, just skip to the last paragraph of this entry for my proposed solution)

I believe that all of these options are flawed.  Obviously the delegations cannot be seated as is because it rewards the states for breaking the rules. This sets a bad precedent for future primaries.  And it rewards Hillary for going back on her pledge.  This is definitely not fair.

The second option is no good because it still does not give the voters their say in this nominating contest.  It is not the fault of the voters that the states broke the rules.  It is the fault of the politicians.  The voters deserve a delegation that reflects their preference in an election where both candidates are on the ballot and get to compete.

The third option is the most reflective of the rules of the primary, but it is untenable because it would disenfranchise the voters of those states and hurt the Party in November.  The voters did not break the rules, the Party leaders and politicians of those states did, thus they should not be punished as this solution would do.

The fourth option seems to be the most popular because it gives the voters of these states their chance to be heard in elections where both candidates are on the ballot and able to campaign in the states.  This option seems to have problems of practicality.  Florida does not seem able to hold another primary because they are trying to implement election reforms for the fall, and thus many counties cannot hold another primary in June.  And, the mail-in primary seems to have many problems.  But let us assume that they get a solution to this as Michigan seems to have done.  There is still a problem with this solution.  It does not punish the people responsible for this disaster: THE POLITICIANS IN THESE STATES.  They must be punished so as to set a precedent for future nominating primaries.  The voters should not be punished in these two states.

Let me throw out the first three of these options because they are the weakest, and let me address the problem I see with the fourth option: REVOTING IN BOTH STATES.  Setting aside the problem of whether revotes can be pulled off.  Lets assume they can.  A big assumption indeed. But for my purposes, lets assume it can be pulled off.  The DNC still must address punishing these two states for breaking the rules.  This is my proposal:

Allow the two states to revote, but strip both states of all their superdelegates.  This punishes the people responsible for this debacle, and thereby punishes the two states for breaking the rules.  However, it does not punish the voters of the state who are not responsible for this mess.  I have seen different numbers for the two states, but I believe that Florida has 23 superdelegates and Michigan has 26.  Upon allowing for revotes, the DNC should strip all 49 superdelegates of a vote at the convention to set a precedent by punishing the people who are responsible.  I doubt this will happen, but I believe it is the right solution.


Poll
(Yes/No) Do you agree with my proposal to hold revotes in FL and MI, but strip the states of their superdelegates as punishment for breaking the rules?
Yes
No
I am too busy filling out my March Madness bracket to care right now.
It doesn't matter, Florida cannot get its act together to hold a revote anyway.

Votes: 7
Results : Vote Link : Polls

Display:


Re: A Fair Penalty for MI & FL (none / 0)

yeah, because a good chunk of the superdelegates support hillary. hmm.. no! I think that FL deserves no punishment because this was all GOP controlled, but MI, yes, something is legitimate!


by American1989 on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 10:01:00 PM EST

Re: A Fair Penalty for MI & FL (none / 0)

The easiest thing to do would seat the delegations at 1/2 their representation and give Obama MI's "Uncommitted" votes. It would yield Clinton a net gain, but not nearly enough for her to overtake Obama. Either way, it goes to the Convention.


Restore America's Strength.
by RJEvans on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 10:01:45 PM EST

Re: A Fair Penalty for MI & FL (none / 0)

you want to punish the DEMOCRATS in the state because the REPUBLICAN CONTROLLED HOUSES moved the dates up? you must be kidding?


by texasdextrous on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 10:04:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Fair Penalty for MI & FL (none / 0)

Actually, the Democrats supported pushing the date up as well if you have been paying attention.


by gorebeatbush2 on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 10:07:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Fair Penalty for MI & FL (none / 0)

Wasn't the vote to accept the date some thing like 99-0 with all Democrats in the states supporting the new date in defyance of the DNC.  Correct me if I am mistaken (not that you wouldn't flame me when you get the chance)..


by Why Not on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 10:10:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Fair Penalty for MI & FL (none / 0)

Well, yeah, that would be easy...but it certainly would not be fair.


by gorebeatbush2 on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 10:07:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Fair Penalty for MI & FL (none / 0)

What, you want to disregard 2 million voters? By all means, go right ahead. That certainly is fair.


Restore America's Strength.
by RJEvans on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 10:39:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Fair Penalty for MI & FL (none / 0)

ummm....did you read my entry, that is not at all what i want to do...I said I support revoting.


by gorebeatbush2 on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 10:48:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Fair Penalty for MI & FL (none / 0)

The only thing Michigan and Florida have in common is that their primaries were scheduled early against the rules, and therefore candidates were barred from campaigning in either one. The contests are not comparable, however, because Michigan allowed several candidates to remove their names from the ballot (those candidates being led to believe that the DNC required them to do so), while in Florida the names of the candidates were placed on the ballot by the state party, so that all candidates were represented. The lack of campaigning did not prevent voters in either state from being well informed enough to decide which candidate to support, but the lack of several candidates on the Michigan ballot made that primary presumptively invalid--they need to have a revote, and since Democrats have some control of that state's government, that should be possible (as it is not presently possible in Forida, where Dems control neither the Executive nor Legislative branch.


by Alice in Florida on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 10:32:43 PM EST

Re: A Fair Penalty for MI & FL (none / 0)

Split the delegations 50/50?

Good idea. But let's also split Illinois 50/50. You wouldn't mind, would you?


by Hedda Lettuce1 on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 10:35:31 PM EST

Re: A Fair Penalty for MI & FL (none / 0)

Well, if you read the entry, you might realize that I don't support splitting the delegations 50/50.  And Illinois did not break any rules, so they are not comparable...same with New York.  Michigand and Florida are unique because the broke the rules.


by gorebeatbush2 on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 10:50:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Fair Penalty for MI & FL (none / 0)

Before I comment on your option for resolution, I just want to ask for clarification on one point.  You state:  "I believe that all of these options are flawed.  Obviously the delegations cannot be seated as is because it rewards the states for breaking the rules. This sets a bad precedent for future primaries.  And it rewards Hillary for going back on her pledge.  This is definitely not fair."

I'm sorry, but exactly what pledge did Hillary go back on?  

As I understand it, all names were originally on MI's ballot, although only four remained on the final ballot (Hillary and three others)--the DNC did not force or even ask candidates to take their name off the ballot.  Yet three candidates (including Barack) made a calculated move to take their names off the ballot, and then campaigned to have their supports vote for "uncommitted."  No going back on her word there.

In FL, it was not Hillary who had commercials airing in Florida before their primary--that was Barack.  All she did was fly in after the voting was over for a (victory) speech...because yes, the vote did still show tremendous support for her.    

So I'll ask again, what pledge did Hillary go back on?

But in answering your question, in order of their appeal FROM WORST TO BEST:

2) I agree that giving a 50/50 representation is not good and would be EVEN WORSE than doing nothing at all.  Not only does this not heed the voice of the voters, it gives false representation and actually gives Barack a benefit not rightfully earned.  

3) As you note about leaving the situation stand as is, absolutely untenable because it punishes and disenfranchises roughly 2.5 million voters who did go vote in good faith and who had absolutely no doing in moving the primary dates.  (I'll add this is also a great risk to turning these states red in November.)

1) Although I personally feel leaving the votes stand as is would be fair and most appropriate--it was representative of the people who did take time to go vote after all--I realize that Barack's supporters would feel this gave an unfair advantage to Hillary and therefore would lead to disruption within the Democratic Party. (And only if the original votes were allowed to stand would I then support doing a proportional split of the "uncommitted" votes to the three candidates represented by that category, thereby giving Barack 33 1/3% of the 40% uncommitted voters.)

4) Considering all the above, I feel the only viable solution that will both give voters a true voice and keep all Democrats as happy as possible in feeling there was a fair election, thereby garnering as much support for our Democratic candidate come November, is to allow a revote.  (Although this is also problematic, because let's look at Edwards for example. He earned 14% of FL voters' votes originally. He would presumably not be on a new ballot--so this changes the dynamic of the vote entirely.) But that being said, I do feel that some actions need taken to resolve the overall situation leading to this problem.  And another poster had suggested within another diary where we were tackling this issue that idea of taking the votes away from superdelegates for those two states.  I'd agree with taking them away from those who hold that status and were part of moving the state's dates.  However, I'd then also promptly boot Dean and any officers at the National Level who allowed this fiasco to even happen, with new officers giving serious thought to how we even hold our overall primaries in the future and to how future penalties might be doled out.

But I'd suggest a 5th option as well.  It seems I read that the DNC gives money to states under some arrangement.  Since money is always such a key issue, perhaps they should consider witholding funds from state parties that do not abide by the national arrangements...that would be far better than taking away voters rights.

Okay, that's my 2 cents.


HRC: "...not a vote to rush to war--it...puts awesome responsibility in the hands of our President, we say to him 'Use these powers wisely and as a last resort.'"
by ChargedFan on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 11:04:47 PM EST

Why (none / 0)

does no one go with MY idea!? It is a combination of some of the above.

Here I go once again.

My idea for FL and MI is pretty simple.
...
For Florida:

Split the original number of delegates in half from 210 to 105 and then give them out proportionally to the vote.

...
For Michigan:

Split the original number of delegates in half from 156 to 78 and then give them out proportionally to the vote but give Obama the "uncommitted" portion of the vote.


Washington Woman
theocracywatch.org
EENR Blog
by kevin22262 on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 11:05:48 PM EST


You are not logged in.

In order to post a comment, you must be logged in. If you have a member account, please log in to comment.

If not, you can make an account right here. It's quick and free.