Obama's minister

If you were wondering when the rightwing was gonna go after swiftboating Barack Obama, you might want to check out the WSJ's version today. The interesting thing is that, as I cruised through the progressive blogs today, I didn't see anything in the way of a defense, or even a mention of it happening. It seems eerily similar to mid-August 2004.

It seems as if Obama's choices are pretty limited:

A) Ignore it, playing it down when possible; answer/denounce only specific cases; and try to attack McCain as having a similar problem to minimize the fallout.

C) Throw Wright under the bus (on this last point, see TPM post here, from when I earlier wrote this, that seems to come at the issue).

One broad theme I've noticed with the wingers covering this (and they all are) is they all work this in: "The media have largely ignored Mr. Obama's close association with Mr. Wright." Same old, I know, they did with the SwiftBoats and JK, its' ammo works too. Anyway, discuss.

Update [2008-3-14 18:42:43 by Todd Beeton]: Senator Obama has posted an eloquent explanation of his relationship with Reverend Wright at Huffington Post. A silver lining of the controversy, of course, is that when the story is pushed, the effect is to remind people that Obama is a Christian; the smear merchants can't have it both ways -- he can't be a Christian and a Muslim. Well, they'll try to of course. But also, Obama gets to say things like this:

I first joined Trinity United Church of Christ nearly twenty years ago. I knew Rev. Wright as someone who served this nation with honor as a United States Marine, as a respected biblical scholar, and as someone who taught or lectured at seminaries across the country, from Union Theological Seminary to the University of Chicago. He also led a diverse congregation that was and still is a pillar of the South Side and the entire city of Chicago. It's a congregation that does not merely preach social justice but acts it out each day, through ministries ranging from housing the homeless to reaching out to those with HIV/AIDS.

Most importantly, Rev. Wright preached the gospel of Jesus, a gospel on which I base my life. In other words, he has never been my political advisor; he's been my pastor. And the sermons I heard him preach always related to our obligation to love God and one another, to work on behalf of the poor, and to seek justice at every turn.

The statements that Rev. Wright made that are the cause of this controversy were not statements I personally heard him preach while I sat in the pews of Trinity or heard him utter in private conversation. When these statements first came to my attention, it was at the beginning of my presidential campaign. I made it clear at the time that I strongly condemned his comments. But because Rev. Wright was on the verge of retirement, and because of my strong links to the Trinity faith community, where I married my wife and where my daughters were baptized, I did not think it appropriate to leave the church.



Display:


Re: Obama's minister (none / 0)

I gotta away with not paying attention for a week. Wonderful. Will post later on the UK & Liberal Democrats trip.


by Jerome Armstrong on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 05:31:01 PM EST

Re: Obama's minister (none / 0)

You should update this to include Obama's response to it, now on HuffPo. Also "The Field" offers a different and interesting analysis on how this might play out.

Welcome back. I was missing the attacks on Obama from the front page. ;-)


by marcotom on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 05:41:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's minister (2.00 / 1)

For me, the most astonishing statement of all this isn't Rev. Wright's claim that America deserved 9/11 (five days after the towers fell), or calling America the "US of KKK," or calling Israel a terrorist nation, or preaching that "whiteness" is a moral or spiritual failing, etc. No, the jaw-dropping statement is the Sen. Barack Obama doesn't find the church's teaching particularly controversial.

Really? So what WOULD be controversial, Sen. Obama? If not this, what? The mind boggles!


by John Wesley Hardin was a Friend to the Poor on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 06:03:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's minister (2.00 / 0)

If you cherry-picked passages in the bible, you would find much more controversy than that. But that's besides the point.

The church is much larger than this particular congregation, it's one of the largest churches in America. So I don't really see your point - the church is not defined by these cherry-picked sermons by one of its preachers.


by marcotom on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 06:12:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's minister (2.00 / 1)

But the point is not that within Obama's denomination there is some crackpot minister.  It's that the crackpot minister is Obama's lifelong spiritual mentor and has a position in his campaign.


99% perspiration
by DaveOinSF on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 06:16:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama disclaims being in church... (none / 0)

when all of those horrible statements were spoken.  OK, let's give him the benefit of the doubt and say, that's nice.

BUT, for me the issue is all of the rest of those twenty years.  On one hand he says Rev. Wrong is his spiritual advisor and through him "found Jesus" (that would mean they were pretty close, don't you think?).  But now he dismisses him as an old man who is now retired.

And what about Obama's two beautiful daughters - sitting there, absorbing all of the anger - and, well, hate - through which Rev. Wrong spouts his sermons.

And, good heavens, his campaign has "spiritual advisors" but it's just a laundry list of people who don't do anything.

Please!


by Shazone on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 06:46:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama disclaims being in church... (none / 0)

Have you read what Obama wrote on HuffPo? It should answer your legitimate questions. If you want to have them answered, that is.


by marcotom on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:16:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

My fave Wright-ism (none / 0)

The US Gov't created HIV as a means of Genocide against people of color?

God damn America !!!


by John Wesley Hardin was a Friend to the Poor on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 06:23:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The cherry-picking claim isn't going to cut it. (none / 0)

You aren't allowed even one of these from someone on one of you committees. Forget the pastor, elderly uncle bit, he serves in the same capacity that Geraldine Ferraro did. She was on a financial committee, he's on a spiritual leadership committee.  They both work in support of the campaign.

Kinda makes that outrage look phoney, doesn't it?


by JimR on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 06:27:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The cherry-picking claim isn't going to cut it (none / 0)

First, she stepped down and

Second, Clinton said: I dont agree with that.  She did not say "I have never heard Gerry say the crazy."  They are different, yeah?


by hctb on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 07:17:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The cherry-picking claim isn't going to cut it (none / 0)

No, it doesn't. The whole fake outrage thing started with Sam Power, anyways. But Ferraro deserved real outrage, no need to fake there.

And he stepped down. No longer part of the campaign.


by marcotom on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:19:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's minister (none / 0)

I'm not sure if you've ever actually been affiliated with a church, but "church teachings" and Pastoral  sermons are two entirely different things.  And no, sermons do not always fall in line with "teachings".

take it from a recovering catholic.


Hillary Clinton is not a monster,....as far as I know.. We are all Hussein JUNIOR.. ///.. FEINGOLD/BOXER 2016
by Its Like Herding Cats on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 06:17:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

So why have sermons if they don't mean anything? (none / 0)

Damn, my pastor used to spend twenty minutes a Sunday...and now I learn it meant nothing.


by Shazone on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 06:47:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So why have sermons if they don't mean anythin (none / 0)

Did I say that they didn't mean anything?  I think I said "Pastoral Sermons" and "Church teachings" are different things.

My "Church Teachings" say homosexuality is a sin and  abortion is murder.  My Pastor says homosexuality is as much a human affliction as is envy and pride.  Not great traits, but not a sin either.

My Pastor says all war is immoral.  My church Teachings say some wars are justifiable.

Should I go on, or do you understand what I am trying to say?


Hillary Clinton is not a monster,....as far as I know.. We are all Hussein JUNIOR.. ///.. FEINGOLD/BOXER 2016
by Its Like Herding Cats on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 07:42:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So why have sermons if they don't mean anythin (none / 0)

Gen Y, White Guilt afflicted,Liberal,African-American Prius driving, Latte-sippers go to church?

Does.not.compute.  MegaClintonBot2000HD shutting down.


http://www.yawnmccain.com
by enozinho on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 07:51:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Don't think of an elephant, again. (none / 0)

I think on both Clinton and on Obama's part and more generally speaking the frame that we are jumping into -- where anyone you've ever been associated with in your whole career is somehow a surrogate and a liability -- is the problem.  When can a candidate simply put it to bed by asserting that the person who said an inflammatory statement wasn't the person running for office?  
It seems like the real factor here is that both Clinton AND Obama have run impecible campaigns with little to no errors coming from them personally.  Look at McCain who has actually said himself that he doesn't understand the economy.  Now THAT is something to get upset about.  
That is the correct frame here and one that all democrats/liberals/progressives ought to take up instead of some comments some pastor said two years ago.  
Who cares if Obama was present or not? Rev. Wright isn't in the race.  Lets focus on McCain.
$439Billion spent on the US Military and still no universal health care.
by jlars on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:43:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

swiftboating Barack Obama (none / 0)

I hate to break the news to you but MyDD is helping to spread the word...WSJ: Obama and the Minister


by JoeCoaster on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 05:43:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: swiftboating Barack Obama (2.00 / 3)

If Sen. Obama had attended this church for a while, and then left, I would say "big deal." Instead, according to the New Yorker, the Obama's gave $22,000 to the Rev. Wright to continue spewing his hatred as recently as 2006.

Any person who listens to this nonsense and continues to attend that church for 20 years is not going to be able to win as  our nominee.


by John Wesley Hardin was a Friend to the Poor on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 05:59:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: swiftboating Barack Obama (2.00 / 0)

Ditto that Universal and throw in William Ayers and Obama has the "appearance" of surrounding himself with anti-American radicals. At the point, I think the only way Dems can win the election is to have a Clinton/Obama ticket.


by grlpatriot on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 06:20:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: swiftboating Barack Obama (none / 0)

That's quite the level of condescension.  Why would you sully Clinton with such an unelectable VP?


by rfahey22 on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 06:26:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: swiftboating Barack Obama (none / 0)

To use your own logic RFahey--it is not that he is unelectable. It is that she is more electable.

And, all the things you may hate about her, she is not afraid of Republicans running after her with stakes.


by hctb on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 06:32:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: swiftboating Barack Obama (none / 0)

Well, if he's not unelectable, then why are we even having this conversation?  You seem to be in the minority on this board with that sentiment.

By the way, I do not "hate" Clinton, though the ineptitude of her campaign and her perpetually high negatives indicate to me that she would have the tougher time beating McCain, even though many here are convinced that the sky is falling with this revelation.  I would hate to be around here when her taxes finally hit the press.  


by rfahey22 on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 06:42:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: swiftboating Barack Obama (none / 0)

sorry. I did not mean to ascribe the hate to you. Board hate. I know we are in agreement about the big picture. Not what we should do, but that we should be thinking about it. :)


by hctb on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 07:21:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: swiftboating Barack Obama (none / 0)

I disagree.  Let's see how things turn out before talking about who is vp on the ticket.  I hate it when all the main stream media turned a blind eye on this and people got so emotionally involved with someone they don't know much about; then now the GOP started the attack war.  


by observer11 on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 06:41:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: swiftboating Barack Obama (2.00 / 0)

McCain wouldnt have to touch it .

and it will link all the other fears together.

patriotism, Michelle, Farakahn.

We cant win with him in PA.OH.WV.NH.TN.AR.MI.NJ.etc.


by John Wesley Hardin was a Friend to the Poor on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 06:29:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: swiftboating Barack Obama (none / 0)

Does he subject his two little girls to this hate-speech?  They were baptised in this hateful church.

The pastor is the voice of the church.  You don't go to the church for 20 years, if the voice is not what you believe in.

I've quit churches over less-hateful pastors.


by Si Ella Puede on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 06:34:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: swiftboating Barack Obama (2.00 / 2)

this story breaking through isn't Hillarys fault, or myDDs, or the media's or even Dr. Wright's.  Its Obama's.


by John Wesley Hardin was a Friend to the Poor on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 06:04:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: swiftboating Barack Obama (none / 0)

How is it Obama's fault?


by bruh21 on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 06:09:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama's hubris (2.00 / 2)

He had to be aware of this content, he had to be aware that tapes were for sale FROM THE CHURCH.  

there are only two possible scenarios here --
1. he assumed, or allowed someone to convince him, that his own strength as a candidate would supercede what could be made of his longtime association with Wright or

2. (and much more doubtful) he doesn't understand how mainstream America would react to this association -- in other words, he doesn't see why it should be a big deal

In case one it's extraordinary hubris.  In case two it's incredible stupidity.  

Look, you can't ignore the rules of the game and then expect the game to reward you.  Any serious presidential candidate would have PLANNED a run for the Whitehouse years in advance, considered how their associations and behaviors might hurt them as a candidate and acted accordingly.  

He should have distanced himself as much as possible from Wright the minute he seriously considered running for president -- changed churches, made some statement of being upset by the tenor of Wright's rhetoric, not allowed him any role whatsoever in the campaign and if he wanted, sure, make midnight calls to the guy for advice.

If he found that solution objectionable he should have never run, plain and simple.


Sexism is real.
by grassrootsorganizer on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 06:30:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's hubris (none / 0)

Okay good points. The buck stop with him, but I also find that his supporters aren't helping th ematter. I wish they would just tell him he doesn't have any clothes on this, so that if he is our nominee, when things like this happen, he can change accordingly rather than assuming he is above the fray.


by bruh21 on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 06:38:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It feels like inexperience (2.00 / 1)

Just from my limited persepctive, it seems like their was so much enthusiasm and energy early in his campaign his rise was meteoric.  (the daily massages  from the media sure didn't help)  The guy has never had the chance to develop any real political chops -- not policy maker chops, political chops.  

It almost feels like things became so heady and "yes we can"ish in the Obama camp they honestly believed not only that nothing could stop him but they didn't need to be watchful for ways he could be stopped.

This makes two straight weeks of extrodinarily stupid stunts and GOP 527 fodder --
the NAFTA garbage, the Powers comment about the war, the 3AM response ad, the "none of us have the experience" comment and now this.  

Now I clicked over the Huntington Post response and if that's his shield on this one -- oh, well.  He was a close associate with this guy for 20 years and a politician himself and never ONCE did they discuss politics? they only talked about Jesus?  What does he think?  We all just fell off the potato wagon?  He was "uaware" that Wright gave these kinds of sermons?

How damn long is it going to take some eager Chicago reporter to place Obama in the church for one of these speeches and have the whole thing blow up all over again?  


Sexism is real.
by grassrootsorganizer on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 07:30:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: swiftboating Barack Obama (2.00 / 1)

Wright himself wrote that because of his controversy, he frankly warned Obama to stay away from him and Trinity if he really wanted the national political career that he openly desired. Obama didnt.

Obama has written 2 books that spoke of the importance of Wright and Trinity in his life.  

He made it part of his public face and public biography.

Obama wanted this public faith to say something about him as a public man.  It has.


by John Wesley Hardin was a Friend to the Poor on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 06:33:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: swiftboating Barack Obama (none / 0)

I agree with you that Obama has made clear statements that Trinity, not all this UCC stuff, but  trinity united church or christ in chicago has been formative in his faith and perspective on the world. I guess that is what makes the argument that "I never heard anything objectionable at church or in private conversations" a little weird. I mean, look at all the objectionable stuff we have encountered?  
I admire that he is standing by someone who was formative in his life, but he needs to say something about all this hullabaloo. And I never noticed he was a wingnut is not very satisfying.

JK didnt talk about the swiftboats for six weeks--a fatal mistake.


by hctb on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 06:39:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: swiftboating Barack Obama (none / 0)

I agree about the politics. I have to say in reading the comments they are the kind of things one may disagree with, but if yo uare person of color, it's no all that surprising to hear people express. It comes out a lot of frustration and mistrust that's built up over time about how people can be so indifferent to what happens to people of color (a la Katrina where even after this we were still not allowed to talk about the racial element, etc), and I do admire the fact Obama wasn't willing to throw a friend under the bus. However, I do agree politically its pretty stupid. The guy said some extreme things. Sure, he may have had a point if it weren't said in such an extreme way, but he did. He should have denounced the extreme nature of his comments earlier, and said that he didn't want to complete toss a friend under the bus due to disagreeing with him. That would hav ehandled it, but I think the other poster is right above -t he problem with Obama and frankly his supporters is that they have a hubris about thinking they are above all of this nasty political stuff. i guess this will start to bring them to reality without assuming it's about portraying CLinton as evil. Although- I may be wrong. Youstill have those posting how this is about Clinton along this thread too.


by bruh21 on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 06:44:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: swiftboating Barack Obama (none / 0)

PS especially his AIDS comemnts- its something you used to here a lot of African american community organizer type say. "Well you know they created AIDS to get rid of us" Its crazy to some degree, but its also a product of having to face so much indifference.


by bruh21 on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 06:46:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: swiftboating Barack Obama (none / 0)

Keep this in mind too.  The South Side of Chicago is home to The Nation of Islam (Farrakhan), and Warith Deen Muhammad (Elijah Mohammad's son).  It could very well be that Obama's church was considered tame by comparison.  Not saying what they teach is right, but I saw Warith Deen speak once, and he had Nation of Islam people disrupting his conference because they considered him a sellout and soft.


http://www.yawnmccain.com
by enozinho on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 06:58:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: swiftboating Barack Obama (none / 0)

Whenever I see something like William Jefferson getting reelected because people honestly feel he got set up by the establishment, I reflect on just how much injustice people have to witness before they are willing to indulge that sort of theory.

Some people are hardwired to believe crazy stuff (9/11 conspiracies) but society plays a part too.  Maybe it's just stereotypical liberal guilt on my part, but if I see people dying all around me from a disease and the President won't even talk about it, who knows, I might start to wonder about things.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 06:58:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: swiftboating Barack Obama (none / 0)

Not at all a sufficient justification given the post-racial claims. I am not saying that I cannot understand how these attitudes are engendered within the AA community, but I do think it is the role of leaders to debunk them, not fuel them.  
I have never heard Jesse Jackson say this sort of anti-American statements.  Rather, he has spent the last 20 years linking rural poverty and urban poverty as endemic of the same state failures.
I am not saying that every AA leader needs to be with JJ, I am suggesting I would rather they sould trend in his direction than Farrakhan's.
by hctb on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 07:30:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: swiftboating Barack Obama (none / 0)

I don't get the impression Rev. Wright has ever claimed to be post-racial.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 07:32:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: swiftboating Barack Obama (none / 0)

No, but Obama has.

Please this is like me saying Germaine Greer is my spiritual advisor but we are beyond the patriarchy.


by hctb on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 07:53:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: swiftboating Barack Obama (none / 0)

Obama has never claimed to be post racial. But he has allowed his supporters to attribute that to him, which I have discussed else where, especially in my diary about "Obama, the magic negro." Which gets to the heart of thow this works out.


by bruh21 on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 02:49:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: swiftboating Barack Obama (none / 0)

The point was that a MyDD dairy is using a WSJ option piece to support an anti-Obama rant. That's not good.  


by JoeCoaster on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 06:15:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: swiftboating Barack Obama (none / 0)

Will it mean it doesn't exist if the worst of what the right is throwing  at him isn't mentioned?


by bruh21 on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 06:39:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: swiftboating Barack Obama (2.00 / 1)

No, but right wing smears against Dems should be addressed, attacked, and denounced.  Not used to tear one of our candidates down just because it happens to still be the primary season...


by Brillobreaks on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 06:43:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: swiftboating Barack Obama (none / 0)

Despite what you say- the point of this post doesn't seem to be to tear Obama down, but to ask him to respond and respond effectively. Once again i find myself chatting posters who seem myopic. This isn't going to go away whether Clinton is in the picture or not. THis is about learning how to address issues. take it as an opportuntiy rather than a moment to shot the messenger. The later is not going to work over a long period of time.


by bruh21 on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 06:48:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: swiftboating Barack Obama (none / 0)

Bruh, he did and is responding.  Why that isn't addressed in the text of the diary itself, I have no idea.


by rfahey22 on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 06:56:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: swiftboating Barack Obama (2.00 / 2)

Yeah, I'm curious how Jerome feels that his site has been turned into a place featuring repeated Muslim smear diaries, hit pieces from the various right wing radio hosts, smear articles from right wing sources like the National Review, and this week several diaries attacking not just Reverend Wright's comments but African Americans and our church in general.  Even got an Affirmitive Action/Victim Mentality diary going on.  Super progressive.


by Brillobreaks on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 06:08:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: swiftboating Barack Obama (1.00 / 0)

He may have "bamboozled" 13 million people into believing he could, but his past always said he cant.

Better people learn this now than when its too late.

The good news. I've ALWAYS wanted him as our VP and I still think he can survive that.

POTUS? No way.


by John Wesley Hardin was a Friend to the Poor on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 06:35:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: swiftboating Barack Obama (none / 0)

You really don't need to spam that same comment in this diary.  

But since you did, let me just say that your VP line is ridiculous.  If Obama's not ready to run the country, he fails the most basic test for VP- namely the ability to step into the presidency if need be.  And if this newest smear renders him unfit for the presidency, Hillary would be crazy to have him as VP.  

We get it, Hillary is losing.  Trying to smear Obama to the point that you can argue he's only fit for the VP spot under Hillary is cynical bullshit, and quite thoroughly transparent.


by Brillobreaks on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 06:49:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: swiftboating Barack Obama (none / 0)

They want the votes but not the "taint."  Politics at its most cynical.


by rfahey22 on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 06:50:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: swiftboating Barack Obama (none / 0)

It's not about whether he's ready to run the country, in this case, but about whether he has too much baggage to run in the top slot.  A lot of people think Hillary has too much baggage to be electable, after all.

I've heard many Democrats in New York comment that this Spitzer thing is a blessing in disguise because our new governor, Paterson, is more progressive than anyone we could have gotten elected in his own right.  We'll see about that, but certainly no one cared about such things when he ran for lieutenant governor.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 07:01:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: swiftboating Barack Obama (none / 0)

This would be more plausible if there weren't so much evident glee in many of these posts.  


by rfahey22 on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 07:06:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: swiftboating Barack Obama (none / 0)

I can only speak for the rational among the Clintonistas.  (both of us)

Seriously, the people who genuinely despise Obama and thinks he eats babies do not want him as the VP either.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 07:09:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: swiftboating Barack Obama (none / 0)

Yes, and I think that the person above falls into that category.

This weekend will be very educational.


by rfahey22 on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 07:12:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: swiftboating Barack Obama (1.00 / 0)

hes not shown that he is fit for the white house and he has zero chance of getting there except as vp.

you should be grateful.

he can then show the country over time whether he deserves the honor.

now hes just another ambitious man in a hurry with a bunch of star struck half-awake fans and 90% of a certain vote.


by John Wesley Hardin was a Friend to the Poor on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 07:34:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: swiftboating Barack Obama (none / 0)

"now hes just another ambitious man in a hurry with a bunch of star struck half-awake fans and 90% of a certain vote."

States that don't count and voters that are cult followers and 90% of a CERTAIN vote" No surprise that you are behind in the popular vote, pledged delegates and states won. When you diss voters because they would not line up behind the inevitable candidates coronation you lose.

As to Reverend Wright there is not much politically I have in common politically with my Pope or my parish priest. Do Ferraro, Kerry and I have to leave the Catholic church because of all the homophobia, sexism and opposition to a woman's rights by church leaders?

Obama can revile Rev. Wrights personal politics and still be grateful to him for bringing him to Jesus. Church doctrine and the good works of the church are quite apart from any members or ministers political opinions. Go to the UCC church's web site and read about their largest congregation (Obama's church)


by hankg on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 07:48:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's minister (2.00 / 1)

What happened to B)?


by Tantris on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 05:32:28 PM EST

Re: Obama's minister (none / 0)

B) Propose a Wright vs. Hagee Cagematch?

B) Personally apologize for the actions/words of all  black people?

B) Put up a diary on MYDD about how doomed he is, WITH MAPS!! ZOMFG!

B) Hold a caucus in the FOX news basement to see if he should drop out?  Or is that too "process-powered"?


http://www.yawnmccain.com
by enozinho on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 06:01:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's minister (none / 0)

I say DOOMED, DOOOOOOMED!


by marcotom on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 06:13:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

DOOMED (1.00 / 2)

Image and video hosting by TinyPic


by John Wesley Hardin was a Friend to the Poor on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 06:48:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's minister (none / 0)

Well, looks like Obama will be on all the networks and even Hannity and Colmes to answer this.

We'll see what happens.


by animated on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 05:34:53 PM EST

Re: Obama's minister (none / 0)

Do you have a link showing he is appearing on Fox News? He has vowed to NOT appear on Fox News. Is he going back on that promise as well?!


by americanincanada on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 06:17:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's minister (2.00 / 1)

He's going on Fox, CNN, and MSNBC tonight, yes.  

Also he didn't vow not to appear there, he refused to debate there after the network helped spread the Muslim/Madrassa smear, saying that he thought CNN would be a better place.


by Brillobreaks on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 06:26:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's minister (none / 0)

Do you have a link to what show he will be on? there is no mention on the Fox News site.


by americanincanada on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 06:29:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's minister (none / 0)

Hannity and Colmes (who dug this shit up in the first place by the way...) on Fox.  Not sure about the other networks.


by Brillobreaks on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 06:32:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's minister (2.00 / 0)

He'll be on Countdown on MSNBC, 360 on CNN and Hannity and Colmes.


by animated on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 06:42:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's minister (none / 0)

You can't make a promise.  Please try again.


I CAN HAZ BAHROCK DONASCHON?
by kasjogren on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 07:58:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's minister (2.00 / 1)

Obama is in deep trouble over this issue.  He better  drop his pastor soon...


by nzubechukwu on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 05:35:34 PM EST

Re: Obama's minister (none / 0)

He's already retired.

Here's his new pastor.


John McCain defends Bush's Iraq strategy.
by recusancy on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 05:38:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's minister (2.00 / 1)

No, drop him from his campaign.
by ColoradoGuy on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 05:57:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's minister (2.00 / 2)

As Obama's defenders try to dodge around with  claims that none of this matters anymore because of his retirement, know this, Rev. Wright IS Trinity church.

When Dr. Wright came there 40 years ago, Trinity had 80 members, today it has over 8,000.

Understand, the Obamas joined to be part of Rev. Wright's congregation, not the National Church of Christ's.


by John Wesley Hardin was a Friend to the Poor on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 06:02:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's minister (1.00 / 4)

You know the "wingers" that Jerome is talking about.  They are you.


John McCain defends Bush's Iraq strategy.
by recusancy on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 06:06:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's minister (none / 0)

Oh you big tough Kossack with your witty insults!?

I am so slayed!

swoon.


by John Wesley Hardin was a Friend to the Poor on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 06:58:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's minister (none / 0)

He has been Obama's spiritual advisor from the time he was a community activist more than 20 years. Sen Obama has a lot of questions to answer. He can not run from this.

chicagotribune.com/news/custom/religion/ chi-070121-relig_wright,1,294740,print.s tory


You may not agree with What I say but don't forget I am a Democrat
by indydem99 on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 07:10:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's minister (none / 0)

And here's more on his new minister.

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/channel-0 8/2008/03/the_new_pastor_at_obamas_churc .html


John McCain defends Bush's Iraq strategy.
by recusancy on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 05:44:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's minister (none / 0)

There are basically two kinds of liberals: those who comprehend that the rest of the world does not think like us, and those who don't.

The people in the latter category need to pause and look to the people in the former category for their talking points on this stuff... but they seldom do.

My bottom line: if Obama can take this punch successfully, then he can take whatever else they'll throw at him.  This has now become a serious, concerted attack by the right wing.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 05:35:51 PM EST

At least no one is blaming Hillary for this. (2.00 / 1)

If she had had this goodie in her purse, she would have thrown it out there before now, like just before Super Tuesday...


No politician ever lost an election because he underestimated the intelligence of the American public. - PT Barnum, paraphrased...
by jarhead5536 on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 05:42:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: At least no one is blaming Hillary for this. (none / 0)

There is a good reason you will not see the Clinton campaign come within a mile of this story.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 05:44:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: At least no one is blaming Hillary for this. (2.00 / 1)

Quite a few folks online are blaming Hillary for this. The formerly sane Josh Marshall even wrote the reason this is controversial is because of Hillary.


by OrangeFur on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 06:08:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

RACIST RACIST KKK!!!! (2.00 / 1)

if you ever tried to break this truth to the crazies on Daily Kos and DU, they'd find you. And yell at you that chant in place of stoning. This IS the true test for Obama. And he is failing, he SHOULD throw the guy under the bus. He should have said that he was not in church that day, and the days where he said crazy stuff, and threw him under the bus. Almost a "sister souljah" thing, which he has failed to do.


"there is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured by what is right in America"-William Jefferson Clinton, forty-second President of the United States
by DiamondJay on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 05:45:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: RACIST RACIST KKK!!!! (none / 0)

What are you talking about?

He actually said exactly what you claim he didn't say, namely that he never heard these words in person. He is not going to throw anybody under the bus, the guy is retired and not part of his campaign.


by marcotom on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 05:48:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: (none / 0)

That's exactly what he said:

The statements that Rev. Wright made that are the cause of this controversy were not statements I personally heard him preach while I sat in the pews of Trinity or heard him utter in private conversation. When these statements first came to my attention, it was at the beginning of my presidential campaign. I made it clear at the time that I strongly condemned his comments. But because Rev. Wright was on the verge of retirement, and because of my strong links to the Trinity faith community, where I married my wife and where my daughters were baptized, I did not think it appropriate to leave the church.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/barack-oba ma/on-my-faith-and-my-church_b_91623.htm l

And have a doughnut for subject line.


John McCain defends Bush's Iraq strategy.
by recusancy on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 05:50:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

he should have left many years ago (none / 0)

knowing he was gonna run for President. Sure, it may not have been personally necessary, but it would have been politically necessary. So no one could ever even SAY he was with this guy. The fact is politics is a GAME, and a guilt-by association one at that too, meaning your enemies try to make you guilty be association with bad people. Sometimes, you can't avoid it, but with someone like a RACIST pastor who probably has said this type of stuff before Obama became a state senator, who probably said the government invented crack, put liquor stores around their corners like Fishbourne says in Boyz N Tha Hood, you MUST get the hell away. Race sells better in the media than Bush's bad business associates.


"there is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured by what is right in America"-William Jefferson Clinton, forty-second President of the United States
by DiamondJay on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 05:57:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: he should have left many years ago (2.00 / 0)

And are you working to prevent guilt-by-association smearing or working to perpetuate it?  You put a lot of words into the pastor's mouth in order to make your argument.


by rfahey22 on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 06:00:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

no i'm talking how to PLAY POLITICS (none / 0)

something you Obamaniacs don't understand. the fact is, while I PERSONALLY don't believe in guilt by association, I realize that the GAME of politics is about what OTHER PEOPLE THINK. And OTHER PEOPLE THINK that if one knows, or in Obama's case, knows a guy for 20 years with whom was his mentor and religious compass, they think Obama IS guilty by association. Politics is a GAME, not true thinking. Or Reagan and Bush wouldn't have won.


"there is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured by what is right in America"-William Jefferson Clinton, forty-second President of the United States
by DiamondJay on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:23:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: he should have left many years ago (2.00 / 1)

Wright himself wrote that because of his controversy, he frankly warned Obama to stay away from him and Trinity if he really wanted the national political career that he openly desired. Obama didnt.

Obama has written 2 books that spoke of the importance of Wright and Trinity in his life.  

He made it part of his public face and public biography.

Obama wanted this public faith to say something about him as a public man.  It has.

He cant now  say, "oh that was all private, the rants of a favorite Uncle trying to be "provocative". Please dont blame me."


by John Wesley Hardin was a Friend to the Poor on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 06:06:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: he should have left many years ago (none / 0)

It has. And you don't get it.


by marcotom on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 06:30:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: (none / 0)

You know what? That's a pretty awful response. He found at "when he started running for President?" Give me a break. I just really really REALLY don't believe that. It seems almost impossible, unless Obama never went to church. And it suggests he didn't think it was a problem or was controversial until the political implications were brought to his attention. Which makes it worse.
by ColoradoGuy on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 06:00:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: (2.00 / 1)


Dont run if you cant win. Obama can't win.

He may have "bamboozled" 13 million people into believing he could, but his past always said he cant.

Better people learn this now than when its too late.

The good news. I've ALWAYS wanted him as our VP and I still think he can survive that.

POTUS? No way.


by John Wesley Hardin was a Friend to the Poor on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 06:08:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: (none / 0)

I see, he's good enough to be one heartbeat away from the presidency, just not actually president.  Is this more of that famous CiC logic?  You'll happily take any votes he would add to the ticket so long as he's not the headliner?


by rfahey22 on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 06:11:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: (1.00 / 0)

I've ALWAYS wanted him as our VP

and I still think he can survive that.

POTUS?

No

way.


by John Wesley Hardin was a Friend to the Poor on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 07:05:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: (none / 0)

You do realize that if he is the VP he will have to take over for Hillary if she is gunned down right?


I CAN HAZ BAHROCK DONASCHON?
by kasjogren on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:11:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: RACIST RACIST KKK!!!! (none / 0)

Maybe you should check to see if he, I don't know, actually did what you suggested before posting.


by rfahey22 on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 05:52:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's minister (none / 0)

You have a good point here, I agree.

I have a good feeling about this, somehow. This is a big story now and everybody will want to see his response to it. He might be able to fight the Muslim smear in a very effective way.

The line of attack that basically claims that he is not a patriot will not work in this election. Not after the failed US foreign policy of the last 8 years - people will not fall for this BS again. Well, most won't. I found the Muslim line of attack much more dangerous. That is my opinion, at least. How do you see it?


by marcotom on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 05:46:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's minister (2.00 / 1)

I will believe the patriotism demagoguery is effective for Republicans until I see it actually fail.  It's worked for them throughout my lifetime.  Even though Clinton won, they still succeeded in portraying him as a draft-dodging hater of the military.

On the Muslim thing, I have no idea how many people actually suffer from terminal Islamophobia.  I believe that will play itself out, the same way I figured the right wing wouldn't be able to get away with calling him "Hussein" over and over.  But I do think it's going to fit into the Republicans' larger patriotism narrative - is Barack Obama REALLY on America's side?

Humorously, I had lunch the other day with a low-information friend who leans conservative.  "What's Obama's middle name?" he asked me.  I assumed he was making a joke, but when I answered, he just cracked up and said he hadn't had any idea.  Laughing, he asked me, "are you guys SERIOUSLY going to nominate that guy?"

There may be more people who assume that someone facing Obama's challenges is unelectable, than there are people who actually won't vote for him because they believe that crap.  I don't know.  We have over a month until the next primary and there will be plenty of time to weigh the fallout from this Wright thing.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 05:54:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's minister (none / 0)

I don't think any candidate wants to get into a theological discussion.  You're bound to get somebody mad at you.  Does Obama really want start explaining Black Liberation Theology to Middle America?


by Upstate Dem on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 06:16:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's minister (2.00 / 0)

True, plenty of time. They had polls out where an amazing 13% of respondents actually believed that Barack Obama is a Muslim. That's quite a few. And he can't be Muslim and a member of an America-hating Black Christian church at the same time, really. So what will people do if they are confronted with two contradicting smears? I believe it will take a lot away from either smear - the "fool me once... fool me twice..."-effect.

The patriotism demagoguery will rally the Republican base as it did every election. That would be the same with Clinton or anybody, some people simply like to be played with this. But the difference is that this year, the Republicans need a lot of independents to have a change to win. Their usual coalition of fear won't be enough. We will see how it plays out.


by marcotom on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 06:38:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's minister (none / 0)

He's coming around: http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/3/14/1645 24/894


by NewOaklandDem on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 05:36:09 PM EST

Re: Obama's minister (none / 0)

Obama just answered already.  Check out the huffpost


"There's something horrible and undefeatable about people who have no life except the worship of power. People who don't want the meeting to end."
by campaignmonitor on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 05:38:00 PM EST

Re: Obama's minister (2.00 / 1)

This is GE poison. Period. Think of all the sound bytes and parodies and  songs this will give birth to. The videos with wedding pictures and baptisms and holiday services with backround audio edits of Wright's tirades.
Not good for November.
by Zorkon on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 05:38:38 PM EST

Re: Obama's minister (2.00 / 2)

The boat has left the dock on this one.

I don't know if they thought this would go away.

This is something that would strike a chord with anyone that watches the video.

Really disturbing video.


When I speak I have a southern drawl.. When you come down here Stop and say hello I'm an American from south of the Mason Dixon line
by lori on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 05:38:54 PM EST

Re: Obama's minister (2.00 / 1)

It strikes a cord with those so inclined. You are, obviously, due to your partisanship in this matter.

Watch how this is going to play out. I sincerely think that it is going to make Obama even stronger. And it takes away a possible right-wing attack.


by marcotom on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 05:51:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

TAKES AWAY ?! (2.00 / 1)

Google Personalized Results 1 - 10 of about 633,000 for Wright Obama. (0.12 seconds)

LOL!


by John Wesley Hardin was a Friend to the Poor on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 06:15:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: TAKES AWAY ?! (none / 0)

Whoa, who are we going to run them because I just found this using the same method:
Clinton Foster 719,000
by Socraticsilence on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 06:24:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: TAKES AWAY ?! (none / 0)

what a ridic comparison, but the close numbers should scare the piss out of you if had some sense.


by John Wesley Hardin was a Friend to the Poor on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 07:15:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: TAKES AWAY ?! (none / 0)

Googling obama jeremiah wright brings up 107,000
Googling hillary vince foster brings up 295,000
by vcalzone on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:26:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: TAKES AWAY ?! (none / 0)

Funny thing about this big old world and the internet.  There really are millions and millions of idiots!


Hillary Clinton is not a monster,....as far as I know.. We are all Hussein JUNIOR.. ///.. FEINGOLD/BOXER 2016
by Its Like Herding Cats on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 07:26:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's minister (2.00 / 2)

Obama has already posted a killer response and will be on TV probably all weekend with it.

Remember, folks, this story is only a day old... and he's responding forcefully within 24 hours... the metric that the old Bill Clinton "war room" set many years ago.

I was worried that Obama would let himself get swiftboated, but he's on it and on it fast.  I am very reassured by his campaigns activity on this matter and his response is fantastic!

This man is an incredible politician and will be a great president of the United States.


by LordMike on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 05:39:26 PM EST

Re: Obama's minister (none / 0)

Yes, he is so wonderful and perfect in everything he does, even when he claims he didn't know any of these statements made by his 20 year mentor until Friday.

Were you one of the ones who cheered when he sneezed?


by cbaker3122 on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 06:20:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's minister (2.00 / 1)

You're two steps behind the Obama campaign Jerome, and the rest of the blogosphere for that matter. There've been zillions of diaries on it at DKos starting two days ago, lots on the rec list, Obama has a post on Huff Post (unprecedented?), and he's going on all the news shows tonight and tomorrow morning. It is definitely not "eerily quiet" on this issue.


by dmc2 on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 05:40:25 PM EST

Re: Obama's minister (none / 0)

A day late and a Dollar short.  :=)


Hillary Clinton is not a monster,....as far as I know.. We are all Hussein JUNIOR.. ///.. FEINGOLD/BOXER 2016
by Its Like Herding Cats on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 05:44:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's minister (2.00 / 3)

What amazes me is the amount of right wing linked and posted stories that find their way to MyDD.

To me it says more about us as a so called "progressive Democratic" site than it does about the nut jobs who spew this sh*t to begin with.

Seriously, why does it all end up here?


Hillary Clinton is not a monster,....as far as I know.. We are all Hussein JUNIOR.. ///.. FEINGOLD/BOXER 2016
by Its Like Herding Cats on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 05:43:12 PM EST

Re: Obama's minister (2.00 / 0)

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.  It is a philosophy here.  Whatever it takes to win, dignity be damned.


John McCain defends Bush's Iraq strategy.
by recusancy on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 05:46:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]